Similarities between Harry Potter's books and The Chronicles of Prydain
Sagevic
I'm not accusing Rowling of anything and I definitely don't want to
restart any "who came first" arguments. All writers use source
material. Of the various series I've seen discussed on the topic (ie.
The Books Of Magic, the Sword In The Stone, Star Wars, even the Lord
of The Rings), Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles Of Prydain has, I believe,
the strongest similarities. Since there is a lot of speculation on
where the next three books of the HP series will take the characters,
let's examine the Prydain series and see if it sheds any light on
Harry's possible future.
Things the two series have in common:
1. They are both magic based fantasy adventures.
2. orphaned, young male heroes growing from modest beginnings into
heroic men.
3. An evil dark sorcerer as the recurring and primary villain.
4. A wise, kind sorcerer fills a father/ grandfather role to both
Harry and Taran.
5. Similar personalities among several lead and secondary roles. There
are several roles that could be played by the same actors if a film
were made of The Prydain Chronicles.
6. The writers' use of recurring dialogue to define the characters.
7. The books in each series take place a year apart from one another.
Things that the books have in contrast to each other:
1. Setting. Harry lives in a modern world, Prydain is a medieval
kingdom.
2. Harry is a wizard, Taran a more traditional knight/ warrior.
3. The children are several years younger in Harry Potter to start
with. Harry is eleven and Taran is perhaps 14- 15.
4. The number of books in the series. Harry's is supposed to run seven
books and The Prydain Chronicles ran five.
5. Romance. Because of the younger age of the characters romance is
just slowly seeping into the Potter books. Taran and Eilonwy had a
slow developing romance to be sure but it was in the forefront almost
immediately.
And what could we infer will happen to Harry if we use the Prydain
Chronicles as a guide?
1. He will develop into a mature and heroic adult (Or young adult) who
will confront and overcome the Darklord and fulfill his destiny.
2. Some of his friends will not still be around when all the dust
settles.
3. The world of Magic that Harry lives in will be irrevocably changed
in the aftermath of the final installment and a new order to it will
be in place.
4. Harry will come to terms with his past and his place in the world.
5. The romance between Harry and Hermione will be resolved, and
probably each will have to make sacrifices to be with the other.
6. Parental or mentor figures in Harry's life will take their leave of
him at the conclusion of the series, proclaiming that he is his own
person now and doesn't need them anymore.
7. The ending will be bittersweet. Tidy, happy endings are often
shallow. Expect Rowling to follow Alexander and give the reader's a
few tugs on their heartstrings as she wraps things up.
For those who are unfamiliar with the Prydain books here is a BRIEF
summary of them:
In an ancient land of Prydain, a young assistant pig keeper named
Taran in the ward of a wise enchanter named Dallben. The kingdom is
swept up into conflict when the Evil King of neighboring land Annuvin
invades. Taran and his companions, (Prince Gwydion, Princess Eilonwy,
Fflewder the Bard, and Gurgi the servant,) become the crucial figures
in this struggle. Along the Way Taran realizes his love for Eilonwy
and seeks the truth about his parentage. This comes to a climactic
battle for all in the final book between the forces of good and evil
with the fate of Prydain, of course, in the balance.
The books were written by Lloyd Alexander in the late sixties/
seventies after he read a book of Welsh mythology called "The
Mabinogion" (Which goes back to all writers having sources for their
work). The final book "The High King" one a Newberry Award for best
Children's book the year it was published. Also of interest, The
Mabinogion was one of the books studied by Joseph Campbell while
researching "The Power OF Myth" in which he detailed the so-called
Heroes Journey of boyhood into manhood, which in turn became the
blueprint for George Lucas' Star Wars films. Hence there are many
similarities between the Prydain Chronicles and that franchise as
well.
If anyone has read my post this far, I would ask them to list their
take on these similarities (And I don't mean who ripped off whom) if
you have read the two series in question or not. And if you have not,
I clearly am a fan of these works and would encourage all to read
them. I will flesh out my above arguments in later post.
Edward Lafferty
Hi!
> 5. The romance between Harry and Hermione will be resolved, and
> probably each will have to make sacrifices to be with the other.
>
There is no romance between Hermione and Harry. Its between Hermione and
Ron.
EJL
Lady_Nyx
I've gathered from your post. Honestly, I think J.K.'s idea was very
original.
~LadyNyx~
Pluto (M)
"Sagevic" <sag...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:20f9aebb.01112...@posting.google.com...
<snippity doo-dah, snippity day>
> 5. The romance between Harry and Hermione will be resolved, and
> probably each will have to make sacrifices to be with the other.
Errrrrrrr, they don't really even /infer/ a relationship between Harry and
Hermione. The relationship most heavily hyped is between /Ron/ and Hermione.
<my oh my what a snippity day>
Sudgen
I disagree. I think the romance will blossom in the next three books
as their hormones start raging. By the sixth book at the latest we
will have a full-blown romantic triangle. And I have strong
suspicions that Ron may not be around to see the conclusion of the
seventh book.
Pluto (M)
"Sudgen" <ve...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fc8413e5.01112...@posting.google.com...
Rowling disagrees with you. She said it will be neither Hermione/Harry nor
Ginny/Harry.
Joseph Romagnano
[snip]
>
> Rowling disagrees with you. She said it will be neither Hermione/Harry nor
> Ginny/Harry.
>
>
When did she say that? First I've heard of the G/H thing and the only
thing I've heard about Hermione is that she won't be getting pregnant.
Joe :-)>
Pluto (M)
"Joseph Romagnano" <jrd...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:3BFF2C84...@charter.net...
Someone mentioned it here as being part of a chat or interview :D
Sagevic
suggest that The Chronicles of Prydain are the sole source of
inspiration for Harry Potter, far from it. In my long (too long)
original post the point I was striving for is that the authors use
many similar characters and devices in telling their stories and that
there is insight in the Prydain books as to the future direction of
the Potter novels. Predictions are just that and I certainly have no
inside information on books that haven't been written yet. I have
never read an interview with Rowling in which she gave out major plot
points. Those I have read were always short and pleasant and
definitely shied away from any spoilers. However I have been in a
number of conversation where people tell me they have heard that she
has said this or that wlll happen or won't happen. Much of it is
conflicting and that may be all part of keeping the interest up.
Harry/ Hermione was the point I mentioned that raised the most hackles
by far. As for the romance angle, I stated that the two series vastly
differed in that count but that it was logical to expect more romance
in the later Potter books. The Goblet Of Fire dealt with it far more
then the three previous. Rowling may think that a Harry/ Hermione love
story is too predictable, and she may have thought that before ever
putting the pen to paper. But she has the prerogative to match them up
or keep them apart as she sees fit.
As for Harry Potter being an original work, I never wanted to say that
it isn't. Rowling created a modern day setting where magic is thriving
and vital just beyond the common eye, and that is truly original. For
that alone I would recommend the books to any reader, and for many
more reasons I do recommend them to my students and colleagues alike
Edward Lafferty
> >
> > > 5. The romance between Harry and Hermione will be resolved, and
> > > probably each will have to make sacrifices to be with the other.
> > >
> >
> > There is no romance between Hermione and Harry. Its between Hermione and
> > Ron.
> >
> > EJL
>
> I disagree. I think the romance will blossom in the next three books
> as their hormones start raging. By the sixth book at the latest we
> will have a full-blown romantic triangle. And I have strong
> suspicions that Ron may not be around to see the conclusion of the
> seventh book.
While its true nothing is certain, it is Ron and not Harry who gets jealous
when
Hermione and Krum get together. Other minor events also point towards this
relationship.
EJL
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>I've gathered from your post. Honestly, I think J.K.'s idea was very
>original.
I think the closest thing to the HP books are the Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew
mysteries.
Fab
http://www.laughingplace.com
One thing that I do find fascinating is Quidditch, the sport of Harry Potter,
the sport of wizards. It seems just about the greatest sport ever invented,
better even than NASCAR. ~Joe Posnanski
Rosie Salas
>Things the two series have in common:
>
>1. They are both magic based fantasy adventures.
Describes almost any fantasy novel to a certain extent, whether the
magic takes the form of advanced technology or spells.
>2. orphaned, young male heroes growing from modest beginnings into
>heroic men.
Describes a substantial number of fantasy novels - David Eddings
Belgariad, Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea, Diana Wynne Jones' Charmed Life,
or to stretch it a little further Orson Scott Card's Ender or Alvin
books. And how about Luke Skywalker, then. Or to even up the gender
balance a tiny bit, Tamora Pierce's Alanna.
>3. An evil dark sorcerer as the recurring and primary villain.
A common feature again.
>4. A wise, kind sorcerer fills a father/ grandfather role to both
>Harry and Taran.
Gandalf, Belgarath, Chrestomanci, Obi Wan Kenobi....
>5. Similar personalities among several lead and secondary roles. There
>are several roles that could be played by the same actors if a film
>were made of The Prydain Chronicles.
See answers to 2-4
>6. The writers' use of recurring dialogue to define the characters.
I haven't noticed this particularly in the Harry books.
>7. The books in each series take place a year apart from one another.
There must be more than 1 year between each Prydain book unless Taran
is a good bit older than Harry to begin with.
>And what could we infer will happen to Harry if we use the Prydain
>Chronicles as a guide?
>
>1. He will develop into a mature and heroic adult (Or young adult) who
>will confront and overcome the Darklord and fulfill his destiny.
Nothing very out of the ordinary in that for most fantasy novels.
Nearly every fantasy book I have ever read has this as a plot device.
>2. Some of his friends will not still be around when all the dust
>settles.
And guess what - its their deaths that give meaning to the hero's
life.
>3. The world of Magic that Harry lives in will be irrevocably changed
>in the aftermath of the final installment and a new order to it will
>be in place.
I'm beginning to think a better case for parallels would be the
Belgariad....
>4. Harry will come to terms with his past and his place in the world.
Yup, even more.
>5. The romance between Harry and Hermione will be resolved, and
>probably each will have to make sacrifices to be with the other.
Don't agree with you at all. The most obvious people are *never* the
ones the hero falls for.
>6. Parental or mentor figures in Harry's life will take their leave of
>him at the conclusion of the series, proclaiming that he is his own
>person now and doesn't need them anymore.
"Its your world now. Make sure you don't stuff it up."
>7. The ending will be bittersweet. Tidy, happy endings are often
>shallow. Expect Rowling to follow Alexander and give the reader's a
>few tugs on their heartstrings as she wraps things up.
You mean, more than she already has? I wept buckets over Cedric. Her
concepts of evil are much more complex than Alexander's - much as I
like his books, they only skate over the evil stuff. They're much
better on growing up stuff.
The biggest difference for me is that Harry is not as stupid about his
future as some of the fantasy heroes. Actually he's not as stupid
full stop. He compares favourably in the brains department with
Taran, Garion and Luke Skywalker, although Cat in Charmed Life is
bright but resentful and Ender and Bean in the Ender series are
geniuses.
I'm certainly not knocking Lloyd Alexander because I love the Prydain
Chronicles - but they're very different in their whole outlook from
the Harry Potter books. Alexander is almost Zen in his outlook.
"I’ve heard men complain of doing woman’s work, and women complain of
doing man’s work, but I’ve never heard the work complain of who did
it, so long as it got done!" Taran Wanderer
One of my favourite quotes from Alexander.
Deborah
Buzzk8
>>heroic men.
>
>Describes a substantial number of fantasy novels - David Eddings
>Belgariad, Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea, Diana Wynne Jones' Charmed Life,
>or to stretch it a little further Orson Scott Card's Ender or Alvin
>books. And how about Luke Skywalker, then. Or to even up the gender
>balance a tiny bit, Tamora Pierce's Alanna.
not just fantasy novels...think dickens where orphans are ususally main
characters with similar traits to Harry: not very interesting in terms of their
own personality but surrounded by many strange and interesting people
The 27th Paladin
"Rosie Salas" <rosie...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:3c01f01c...@news.clear.net.nz...
> >7. The ending will be bittersweet. Tidy, happy endings are often
> >shallow. Expect Rowling to follow Alexander and give the reader's a
> >few tugs on their heartstrings as she wraps things up.
>
> You mean, more than she already has? I wept buckets over Cedric. Her
> concepts of evil are much more complex than Alexander's - much as I
> like his books, they only skate over the evil stuff. They're much
> better on growing up stuff.
>
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In B4, JKR took Harry Potter right out of the realm of "Children's Book",
IMHO. B4 has a complex set of plot twists that I think you have to look at
twice, to see how everything works through, and it slips right out of the
realm "Semi-serious" into "Serious and Darkening".
Cedric's death, I think, can only be appreciated by a fairly mature and
intelligent child, or an adult. The end-of-year feast was very stark, and
very plain. The Enemy has returned, and Hogwarts is going to war. Harry
changed dramatically. He's finally seen that he has to take his schoolwork
seriously - he *needs* what they're trying to teach him. The Triwizard
tournament proved to him that he was unprepared, and he's already working
hard to improve his skill.
Dumbledore does not protect his students from grim reality beyond the point
of reason. He tells the assembly (paraphrase) "You have heard it
said...but I tell you this: Cedric Diggory was murdered by Lord Voldemort.".
That's going to hit a 'child' reader who "gets it" pretty darn hard. It
sure gets me.
He was the first in thirteen years. I don't think we can say that he will
be the last.
Raise your cups for Cedric Diggory.
Rugrat
Ooh! That made my hair stand up for a moment. And it is a perfect
description. It is a great shame that PS got the whole series classified as
a Childrens' one, but it is good to hear that JKR has no intention of
changing the story to fit expectations.
Rugrat