Parvati and Padma - Harry Potter and Rushdie's 'Midnight's Children'
Chris Rollason
Harry Potter and Portugal' (rec.arts.books, alt.fan.harry-potter,
August 2000), I wrote the following, suggesting a possible link
between 'Harry Potter and the Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone' and
Salman Rushdie's famous magic-realist novel 'Midnight's Children':
'at Hogwarts one of Harry's fellow pupils turns out to be called
Parvati Patil (p. 110): this character plays only a minor part, and at
first I thought her presence was simply a concession to political
correctness in the form of a token Asian character - until I
remembered that, rather more interestingly, [Salman Rushdie's]
"Midnight's Children" prominently features a young girl with magic
powers by the name of Parvati-the-Witch …'
I have since had this hunch confirmed in the reading of 'Harry Potter
and the Goblet of Fire'. Here in the fourth Potter book, we discover
on p. 350 that Parvati now has a younger sister at Hogwarts, who is
called Padma: '"Well …", said Parvati slowly, "I suppose my
sister might … Padma, you know … in Ravenclaw"'.
It so happens that in 'Midnight's Children' the narrator, Saleem, at
one point has Parvati-the-Witch for a partner, and later in the novel
acquires another partner, Padma. Rushdie's Parvati and Padma are
linked by their successive relationships with Saleem, as Rowling's
Parvati and Padma are linked by the fact of being sisters …
Chris Rollason
Christopher Rollason, M.A., Ph.D.
Metz, France
'The power of Thought - the magic of the Mind!'
George Gordon, Lord Byron, 1813
Visit the Bob Dylan Critical Corner site at:
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M. Harris
> It so happens that in 'Midnight's Children' the narrator, Saleem, at
> one point has Parvati-the-Witch for a partner, and later in the novel
> acquires another partner, Padma. Rushdie's Parvati and Padma are
> linked by their successive relationships with Saleem, as Rowling's
> Parvati and Padma are linked by the fact of being sisters …
>
Padma and Parvati seem to be names in common usage in India:
http://www.geocities.com/sushmajee/miscellanea/names/girlsnames.htm
Padma is the Hindu goddess of the Ganges river, btw, and her sister is
Parvati, the mountain goddess. I think Rowling was just adding in a
these characters so that Hogwarts seemed to more accurately relfect
the population of the U.K.
John Fisher
Harris" <mha...@MAPSONcliffhanger.com> writes
>Padma is the Hindu goddess of the Ganges river, btw, and her sister is
>Parvati, the mountain goddess. I think Rowling was just adding in a
>these characters so that Hogwarts seemed to more accurately relfect
>the population of the U.K.
Yes, it would be pretty bizarre if there were no Indian people at
Hogwarts. And I know another Parvati in real life. Patel, or Patil, is
one of the commonest Indian surnames.
--
John Fisher jo...@drummond.demon.co.uk jo...@epcc.ed.ac.uk
Danae
token asian character? What do you call Cho Chang?
Also aren't Pavarti and Padma twins? I don't know if Padma is younger or
not but as I recall the twins were in different houses.
Rugrat
Depends what you mean by Asian; in Britain it means from India, or
thereabouts, but I think in America it means from China, or
thereabouts.
> Also aren't Pavarti and Padma twins? I don't know if Padma is younger or
> not but as I recall the twins were in different houses.
I thought they were twins as well. Ah, here we go. From the Sorting:
#There weren't many people left now. "Moon" "Nott" "Parkinson" then a
#pair of twin girls, "Patil" and "Patil" then "Perks, Sally-Anne" and
#then, at last -- "Potter, Harry!"
Rugrat
Danae
I don't know about you, but I think of Asian being anywhere on the asian
continent, I think of orient being China/Japan/Korea southeast asia etc
Tae
Jonathan Buzzard
roll...@9online.fr (Chris Rollason) writes:
[SNIP]
>
> I have since had this hunch confirmed in the reading of 'Harry Potter
> and the Goblet of Fire'. Here in the fourth Potter book, we discover
> on p. 350 that Parvati now has a younger sister at Hogwarts, who is
> called Padma: '"Well …", said Parvati slowly, "I suppose my
> sister might … Padma, you know … in Ravenclaw"'.
Well perhaps you might want to read the books again, but Parvati and
Padma are in fact twins. An explicit comment about it is made
in Chamber of Secrets as I recall. At no time are we ever given
an indication of which is the older.
> It so happens that in 'Midnight's Children' the narrator, Saleem, at
> one point has Parvati-the-Witch for a partner, and later in the novel
> acquires another partner, Padma. Rushdie's Parvati and Padma are
> linked by their successive relationships with Saleem, as Rowling's
> Parvati and Padma are linked by the fact of being sisters …
More likely by far that they are names of Hindi godesses, than
characters from some second rate novel.
JAB.
--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jona...@buzzard.org.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44(0)1661-832195
David J. Loftus
David Loftus
Bruce McGuffin
> I was much more pleased by the Monty Python reference.
Do enlighten us please, David (or maybe we should just make
it Bruce to keep everything simple).
Bruce McGuffin
Neal
> More likely by far that they are names of Hindi godesses, than
> characters from some second rate novel.
>
> JAB.
First time I've ever heard 'Midnight's Children' referred to as second
rate. Okay how about when your parents start letting you go to the
library or bookstore alone you actually find the book and read it.
Then come back and we can have an intelligent conversation about why
you would think it's a "second rate novel."
Neal
Fiona Webster
> More likely by far that they are names of Hindi godesses, than
> characters from some second rate novel.
Hindi is a language. Hindu is a religion.
--Fiona
David J. Loftus
Glad to see some Wallamallooians in the audience.
At this point, I can't remember whether it was the third book
or the fourth, but I'm leaning toward the fourth.
Harry is desperately trying to get into Dumbledore's rooms,
and blurts out various possible passwords to get the door to
open to him. The one that works, much to his surprise, is
"Cockroach Cluster."
Now ... tell me the Python sketch where that phrase prominently
figures.
I'll be very surprised if someone can cite another source.
David Loftus
Donal Fagan
Loftus) wrote:
>"Cockroach Cluster."
>Now ... tell me the Python sketch where that phrase prominently
>figures.
I recall the one where the police were arresting these guys for all
the awful candies they were selling, Anthrax Ripple, Crunchy Frog,
Spring Surprise, etc., but I don't recall Cockroach Cluster.
"But, we use only the finest ingredients!"
Donal Fagan
Donal@DonalO'Fagan.com
(Anglicise the name to reply by e-mail)
Donal Fagan
wrote:
>On 14 Nov 2001 08:20:44 -0800, Dav...@ci.oswego.or.us (David J.
>Loftus) wrote:
>
>>"Cockroach Cluster."
I'll be dipped, it is there:
Inspector: 'ELLO!
Mr. Hilton: 'Ello.
Inspector: Mr. 'ilton?
Hilton: A-yes?
I: You are the sole proprietor and owner of the Whizzo Chocolate
Company?
H: I am, yes.
I: Constable Clitoris and I are from the 'ygiene squad, and we'd like
to have a word with you about your box of chocolates entitled the
"Whizzo Quality Assortment".
H: Oh, yes.
I: If I may begin at the beginning. First there is the Cherry Fondue.
Now this is extremely nasty. (pause) But we can't prosecute you for
that.
H: Ah, agreed.
I: Then we have number four. Number four: Crunchy Frog.
H: Yes.
I: Am I right in thinking there's a real frog in 'ere?
H: Yes, a little one.
I: What sort of frog?
H: A...a *dead* frog.
I: Is it cooked?
H: No.
I: What, a RAW frog?!?
H: Oh, we use only the finest baby frogs, dew-picked and flown from
Iraq, cleansed in the finest quality spring water, lightly killed, and
sealed in a succulent, Swiss, quintuple-smooth, treble-milk chocolate
envelope, and lovingly frosted with glucose.
I: That's as may be, but it's still a frog!
H: What else?
I: Well, don't you even take the bones out?
H: If we took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy, would it?
I: Constable Clitoris et one of those!! We have to protect the public!
C: Uh, would you excuse me a moment, Sir? (exits)
I: We have to protect the public! People aren't going to think there's
a real frog in chocolate! Constable Clitoris thought it was an almond
whirl! They're bound to expect some sort of mock frog!
H: (outraged) MOCK frog!?! We use NO artificial additives or
preservatives of ANY kind!
I: Nevertheless, I advise you in future to replace the words "Crunchy
Frog" with the legend, "Crunchy, Raw, Unboned Real Dead Frog" if you
wish to avoid prosecution!
H: What about our sales?
I: FUCK your sales! We've got to protect the public! Now what about
this one, number five, it was number five, wasn't it? Number five:
Ram's Bladder Cup. (beat) Now, what sort of confectionery is that?!?
H: Oh, we use only the finest juicy chunks of fresh Cornish Ram's
bladder, emptied, steamed, flavoured with sesame seeds, whipped into a
fondue, and garnished with lark's vomit.
I: LARK'S VOMIT?!?!?
H: Correct.
I: It doesn't say anything here about lark's vomit!
H: Ah, it does, at the bottom of the label, after "monosodium
glutamate".
I: I hardly think that's good enough! I think it's be more
appropriate if the box bore a great red label: "WARNING: LARK'S
VOMIT!!!"
H: Our sales would plummet!
I: (screaming) Well why don't you move into more conventional areas of
confectionary??!!
(the constable returns)
I: Like Praline, or, or Lime Creme, a very popular flavor, I'm lead to
understand. Or Raspberry Lite. I mean, what's this one, what's
this one? 'Ere we are: Cockroach Cluster! -- -- Anthrax
Ripple!
C: MMMMWWWAAAAAGGGGGHHHH!!
** For those of you watching this transcript on your terminal, the
young constable has just thrown up into his helmet. This is the
longest continuous vomit seen on Broadway since John Barrymore puked
over Laertes in the second act of Hamlet in 1941.
**
I: (continuing) And what is this one: Spring Surprise?
H: Ah, that's one of our specialities. Covered in dark, velvety
chocolate, when you pop it into your mouth, stainless steel bolts
spring out and plunge straight through both cheeks.
I: (stunned) Well where's the pleasure in THAT?!? If people pop a
nice little chockie into their mouth, they don't expect to get their
cheeks pierced!!!
In any case, it is an inadequate description of the sweetmeat. I
shall have to ask you to accompany me to the station.
H: (shrugging) It's a fair cop.
I: And DON'T talk to the audience.
David J. Loftus
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:52:35 GMT, Donal Fagan <Donal@DonalO'Fagan.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 14 Nov 2001 08:20:44 -0800, Dav...@ci.oswego.or.us (David J.
> >Loftus) wrote:
> >
> >>"Cockroach Cluster."
>
> I'll be dipped, it is there:
Yes, indeed. "Crunchy Frog" it is.
I can't imagine any other context where the phrase "Cockroach
Cluster" could have surfaced.
So, along with being a monstrous Beatles fan (though this is
not, so far as I know, exposed within the Harry Potter books),
Ms. Dowling is clearly a follower of Monty Python.
David Loftus
(just now reading _Guards! Guards!_, my very first Terry Pratchett
book, on the recommendation of a net friend, and I have to say it
is delightfully like a cross between Monty Python and Harry Potter....)
William Quill
"David J. Loftus" <Dav...@ci.oswego.or.us> wrote in message
news:5656f475.01111...@posting.google.com...
There is another very important Monty Python sketch.
The one about the blamanchies turning everybody in Scotsmen starts something
like this:
"Here are two ordinary people, the kind of people you wouldn't associate
with adventure. We will therefore ignore them, and go on Mr Harold Potter".