gay wizard / lesbian witch?

disneyfan.nyc

unread,

Jul 17, 2005, 10:15:42 PM7/17/05

to

Now that these kids are getting older and are reaching the age of
adulthood, lets see some gay and/or lesbian characters in the final
book. J.K. Rowling has been a master at creating a world of diversity
in this series of books. Hope she takes it up a notch.

gschrems

unread,

Jul 17, 2005, 10:27:21 PM7/17/05

to

With less then 1% of the population gay or lesbian it is reasonable to
assume there are gay and lesbian witches but that the number is so small
they do not enter the story. Why would JRK take such a risk with her book.
Although I'll admit it would be an amusing sie story for Change and Lavendar
to hook up.

"disneyfan.nyc" <disneyfan...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ihECe.2984$Zx3.2856@trndny05...

Sky_rider

unread,

Jul 17, 2005, 10:34:18 PM7/17/05

to

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 02:15:42 GMT, "disneyfan.nyc"
<disneyfan...@verizon.net> wrote the following in ink distilled
from the fermented blood of a Norwegian Ridgeback:

Luna seems like a good bet to be gay :)
--
Skyrider

Visit Australian Opinion...where comment counts!
http://www.australianopinion.com

Empo...@aol.com

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 1:05:36 AM7/18/05

to

>With less then 1% of the population gay or lesbian...<snip>

Actually, most educated and unbiased sources say that around 10% of the
population is gay or lesbian. The "less than 1%" figure (which is
complete fiction) is usually thrown around by those lunatic fringe
religious groups that delight in Harry Potter book burnings and the
killing of abortion doctors.

As for putting gay/lesbian characters into the story...I don't think
JKR needs to pander to anyone. And the books really aren't about that.
The fact that some of the Hogwarts students (Parvati, Lee Jordan, etc.)
are of differing races seems pretty inconsequential to the story.

Andrew Clark

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 3:06:47 AM7/18/05

to

"disneyfan.nyc" <disneyfan...@verizon.net> wrote in news:ihECe.2984
$Zx3.2856@trndny05:

> Now that these kids are getting older and are reaching the age of
> adulthood, lets see some gay and/or lesbian characters in the final
> book.

JKR doesn't need to give radical conservatives and religious groups
*another* reason not to read the books, does she?

Andrew

DarkD

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 3:29:46 AM7/18/05

to

<Empo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1121663136....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> >With less then 1% of the population gay or lesbian...<snip>
>
> Actually, most educated and unbiased sources say that around 10% of the
> population is gay or lesbian. The "less than 1%" figure (which is
> complete fiction) is usually thrown around by those lunatic fringe
> religious groups that delight in Harry Potter book burnings and the
> killing of abortion doctors.

Complete fucken BS as per usual.
The figures come from medical records. The same place where they get figures
for amount of people with this injury and that injury etc etc. Your doctor
will ask you your preference when he makes a file for you.

mga...@speakeasy.org

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 4:23:53 AM7/18/05

to

What are you talking about? Slughorn is gay, obviously.

"[Harry looked around Slughorn's house.] It was stuffy and cluttered,
yet nobody could say it was uncomfortable; there were soft chairs and
footstools, drinks and books, boxes of chocolates and plump cushions.
If Harry had not known who lived there, he would have guessed at a
rich, fussy old lady." (p. 67)

Then on the next page Dumbledore calls him a "broken-down old buffer,"
guf-faw. Rowling cleverly found a word that works, "buffer (slang):
old fellow" that's also just one sound and one key away from another,
more descriptive, word: "bugger."

Gable

Sean

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 5:23:08 AM7/18/05

to

Slughorn does remind me somewhat of Uncle Monty in "Withnail and I".

Sean

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 5:24:18 AM7/18/05

to

Novels aren't written by committees of social workers. I can't see
what relevance to her storyline the introduction of gay characters
would have.

Helmut P. Einfalt

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 6:22:06 AM7/18/05

to

Sean wrote:
> I can't see what relevance to her storyline
> the introduction of gay characters would have.

I *can*. The answer is:
None whatsoever...

Helmut
--
All typos Š My Knotty Fingers Ltd. Capacity Dept.

Matt Frisch

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 7:41:54 AM7/18/05

to

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:29:46 +1000, "DarkD"
<da...@NOSPAMoptusworld.com.SPAM.au> scribed into the ether:

>
><Empo...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1121663136....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> >With less then 1% of the population gay or lesbian...<snip>
>>
>> Actually, most educated and unbiased sources say that around 10% of the
>> population is gay or lesbian. The "less than 1%" figure (which is
>> complete fiction) is usually thrown around by those lunatic fringe
>> religious groups that delight in Harry Potter book burnings and the
>> killing of abortion doctors.
>
>Complete fucken BS as per usual.

Not often you see someone preface their own comments with a description so
accurate.

>The figures come from medical records.

You mean those sealed medical records that only you and your doctor(s) have
legal access to?

> The same place where they get figures
>for amount of people with this injury and that injury etc etc.

Injury this and injury that are typically related to insurance claims,
which are a matter of public record.

> Your doctor will ask you your preference when he makes a file for you.

Strange, I've seen many doctors in my time, and not a single one of them
has EVER asked me this. What do you gain by simply making things up?

Bubba

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 12:00:44 PM7/18/05

to

>
> Luna seems like a good bet to be gay :)

nope, she and Neville are an item.

Helena Bowles

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 12:50:56 PM7/18/05

to

"DarkD" <da...@NOSPAMoptusworld.com.SPAM.au> wrote in message
news:42db5a37$0$32432$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...

As a nurse, I must ask you: have you considered that medical records
actually *don't* record the sexuality of the vast majority of people? Why
should they? Sexuality is not a medical issue per se so why would anyone
bother recording it? And most Doctors do not routinely ask their patients
sexuality as it is irrelevant to administering medical treatment.

And self-reported surveys of sexuality *do* suggest a fairly constant
rate of about 10%. Of course being self-reported the accuracy of such
surveys can be questioned - although logically in that case one would expect
a higher actual rate than 10% as people are more likely to cast themselves
into the mainstream than out of it...
HELENA
>
>

tbar...@yahoo.com

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 1:47:38 PM7/18/05

to

But that wasn't his house. He was moving around from house to house.

Ginevra M. Longbottom

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 6:13:40 PM7/18/05

to

Bubba wrote:

> Skyrider wrote:

>> Luna seems like a good bet to be gay :)
>
> nope, she and Neville are an item.
>

On her site Rowling clearly sez Neville/Luna wont happen

Ginevra

--

Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 7:45:09 PM7/18/05

to

Gable wrote:

> Slughorn is gay, obviously.

> "[Harry looked around Slughorn's house.] It was stuffy and cluttered,
> yet nobody could say it was uncomfortable; there were soft chairs and
> footstools, drinks and books, boxes of chocolates and plump cushions.
> If Harry had not known who lived there, he would have guessed at a
> rich, fussy old lady." (p. 67)

It wasn't Slughorn's house.

Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

--
Free Margaret Blaine now!

Mordechai Housman

unread,

Jul 18, 2005, 11:59:52 PM7/18/05

to

"DarkD" <da...@NOSPAMoptusworld.com.SPAM.au> wrote in message
news:42db5a37$0$32432$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...

> The figures come from medical records. The same place where they get

> figures
> for amount of people with this injury and that injury etc etc. Your doctor
> will ask you your preference when he makes a file for you.
>

I don't know where you live. Perhaps it's different outside of the USA.
But here in the USA, what doctor asks his/her patients their sexual
preferences? And of what possible use could it be to them? Not only have I
never seen or experienced this, I am quite sure it is illegal in the USA for
the doctor to ask if it is not absolutely necessary for a medical reason.

And I can't think of any reason a doctor would NEED to ask. After all, HIV
can be transmitted heterosexually too, you know.

Mordechai Housman

unread,

Jul 19, 2005, 12:03:08 AM7/19/05

to

"Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen" <bffpds@raxacoricofallapatoria>
wrote in message news:bffpds.1687512479660@raxacoricofallapatoria...

> Gable wrote:
>
>> Slughorn is gay, obviously.
>
>> "[Harry looked around Slughorn's house.] It was stuffy and cluttered,
>> yet nobody could say it was uncomfortable; there were soft chairs and
>> footstools, drinks and books, boxes of chocolates and plump cushions.
>> If Harry had not known who lived there, he would have guessed at a
>> rich, fussy old lady." (p. 67)
>
> It wasn't Slughorn's house.

It was where he lived. What's the difference if he owned it or if he was
squatting there?

Mordechai Housman

unread,

Jul 19, 2005, 12:07:21 AM7/19/05

to

"Helmut P. Einfalt" <helmut.p...@NOSPAM.aon.at> wrote in message
news:42db82a2$0$19688$91ce...@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at...

> Sean wrote:
>> I can't see what relevance to her storyline
>> the introduction of gay characters would have.
>
> I *can*. The answer is:
> None whatsoever...

It would have the same relevance, perhaps, that introducing a
background character with a Jewish name has. Or a Black character. She's
done that, and not made a big deal over it.

I'm Jewish, and I couldn't care less whether or not there was a
character with a Jewish name in HP. I can't see why anyone would insist on
gay characters. If someone wants a gay character, s/he can always read the
copious slash fanfic that's all over the internet. (Shudder)

Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

unread,

Jul 19, 2005, 12:47:56 PM7/19/05

to

Mordechai Housman wrote:

> Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
>> Gable wrote:

>>> Slughorn is gay, obviously.

>>> "[Harry looked around Slughorn's house.] It was stuffy and cluttered,
>>> yet nobody could say it was uncomfortable; there were soft chairs and
>>> footstools, drinks and books, boxes of chocolates and plump cushions.
>>> If Harry had not known who lived there, he would have guessed at a
>>> rich, fussy old lady." (p. 67)

>> It wasn't Slughorn's house.

> It was where he lived. What's the difference if he owned it or if he
> was squatting there?

He didn't create the rich-fussy-old-lady decor.

Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

--
Free Margaret Blaine now!

Eric Bohlman

unread,

Jul 21, 2005, 5:49:38 AM7/21/05

to

"disneyfan.nyc" <disneyfan...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:ihECe.2984$Zx3.2856@trndny05:

> Now that these kids are getting older and are reaching the age of

She'd have a near-impossible time doing it in a way that wouldn't make it
look purely gratuitous. Remember that the wizarding community is rather
Victorian in its ways, so gay/lesbian wizards aren't going to be able to
be casually open about it. That means that the only wizards whose
sexuality could be known to us are those whose lives we know about in
great detail, and just about all of them are already taken. What's she
going to do, write a scene where Seamus and Neville are caught snogging?
That would come off as forced, for the simple reason that it would be
(and it wouldn't really be a portrayal of an actual gay character, since
casual same-sex experimentation among kids who turn out straight is a
well-known phenomenon at boarding schools and oblique hints about it are
common in boarding-school fiction).

About the only way she could pull it off would be to have a same-sex
couple mentioned in the epilogue *if* the epilogue goes sufficiently far
into the future. And even that would seem fairly strained and
gratuitous, as we'd be hearing about somebody she's never going to write
about again.

I just think it's a possibility that's precluded by various choices of
structure and setting that Rowling made long ago.

Louis Epstein

unread,

Jul 27, 2005, 10:55:02 PM7/27/05

to

Helena Bowles <helena...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
:
: "DarkD" <da...@NOSPAMoptusworld.com.SPAM.au> wrote in message

I've heard that the accurate figure is more like 3%,
and that the 10% figure comes from old Kinsey Report
figures based on prison populations back when homosexual
acts got people sent to prison.

Regardless....let this stay OT for HP!

: HELENA

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Helena Bowles

unread,

Jul 28, 2005, 3:32:13 AM7/28/05

to

"Louis Epstein" <l...@main.put.com> wrote in message
news:AvCdnc3wqoW...@velocitywest.net...

The figures vary from 3% (probably low) to 20% (almost certainly high).
Exactly *how* to gather the data is the main problem...
HELENA
>
> : HELENA
>

Ian Westerfield

unread,

Jul 28, 2005, 3:59:16 AM7/28/05

to

Almost bound to crop up in every discussion...really! Don't think JKR has
placed evidence or suggestion of this in the HP series. But think - these
are kids/young adult books!

Helena Bowles

unread,

Jul 28, 2005, 3:45:26 AM7/28/05

to

"Ian Westerfield" <enqu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:of0Ge.6218$6f....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

> Almost bound to crop up in every discussion...really! Don't think JKR has
> placed evidence or suggestion of this in the HP series. But think - these
> are kids/young adult books!

There are books around that deal with sexuality issues for children but
I don't think it's appropriate here... I mean, nor do we have disabled
Hogwarts students of any flavour. One book can only do so much.
HELENA
>
>

Ian Westerfield

unread,

Jul 28, 2005, 4:18:12 AM7/28/05

to

Knowledge of sexual issues should be dealt out by children's parents - not
the children's section. I personally wouldn't want my kids reading about
Hermione and Ginny in that light...but then again I wouldn't want my kids
reading Flowers in the Attic either!

It's also supposed to be a fictional story - why complicate it with
non-fictional issues?

Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

unread,

Jul 29, 2005, 4:03:16 AM7/29/05

to

Ian Westerfield wrote:

An awful lot of non-slash fan-fiction makes Justin Finch-Fletchley gay.

What canon characteristics make so many people assume this about him?

~consul

unread,

Aug 5, 2005, 1:04:27 PM8/5/05

to

Mordechai Housman wrote:
> "Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen" <bffpds@raxacoricofallapatoria>

>>Gable wrote:
>>>Slughorn is gay, obviously.
>>>"[Harry looked around Slughorn's house.] It was stuffy and cluttered,
>>>yet nobody could say it was uncomfortable; there were soft chairs and
>>>footstools, drinks and books, boxes of chocolates and plump cushions.
>>>If Harry had not known who lived there, he would have guessed at a
>>>rich, fussy old lady." (p. 67)
>>It wasn't Slughorn's house.
> It was where he lived. What's the difference if he owned it or if he was
> squatting there?

Because he didn't decorate it? He's been on the move so much. Though on the other hand, he
does move that piano into every house, maybe he just moves into empty houses, though that
seems doubtful.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For within these Trials, we
shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>

emmits...@hotmail.com

unread,

Aug 5, 2005, 1:28:51 PM8/5/05

to

Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
> An awful lot of non-slash fan-fiction makes Justin Finch-Fletchley gay.

Well, if you see a name like Fenrir Greyback, you're going to guess
you're dealing with a werewolf.

If you see a name like Justin Finch-Fletchley, you're going to guess
you're dealing with a gay man.

(By the way, if you're a responsible wizarding parent, consider
naming your children something like "Tony" or "Lisa" rather
than "Fangthor," "Rabidia" or "Howlard". It reduces the
risk of being bitten by a werewolf later in life significantly.)

Neener

unread,

Aug 5, 2005, 1:43:57 PM8/5/05

to

I have NO idea what would cause the speculation about JFF, as nothing
in the canon makes any assumptions whatsoever about his sexuality as
far as I can recall. He is rather pompous and fussy, but that's about
all I've gotten from reading about him. I think someone's gaydar is
malfunctioning.

~consul

unread,

Aug 5, 2005, 1:51:36 PM8/5/05

to

emmits...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
>>An awful lot of non-slash fan-fiction makes Justin Finch-Fletchley gay.
> Well, if you see a name like Fenrir Greyback, you're going to guess
> you're dealing with a werewolf.
> If you see a name like Justin Finch-Fletchley, you're going to guess
> you're dealing with a gay man.

This you're going to have to explain. Maybe it's a UK thing. In the US, the 'gay' names
were thought to be like 'Bruce'.

emmits...@hotmail.com

unread,

Aug 5, 2005, 2:07:42 PM8/5/05

to

~consul wrote:
> emmits...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
> >>An awful lot of non-slash fan-fiction makes Justin Finch-Fletchley gay.
> > Well, if you see a name like Fenrir Greyback, you're going to guess
> > you're dealing with a werewolf.
> > If you see a name like Justin Finch-Fletchley, you're going to guess
> > you're dealing with a gay man.
>
> This you're going to have to explain. Maybe it's a UK thing. In the US, the 'gay' names
> were thought to be like 'Bruce'.

I'm from Chicago, actually. How is "Justin Finch-Fletchly" not a
big old rainbow flag? "Hello, I'm Justin Finch-Fletchly. Didn't I
see you at the antique furniture show?"

:)

Gary G

unread,

Aug 5, 2005, 4:14:56 PM8/5/05

to

We're having far too much fun with thse postings to
let you spoil it with "let's just pay attention to canon"
comments.

Your truly,

Mr. Chris Faith-Fanny Poofer

Eric Bohlman

unread,

Aug 5, 2005, 7:14:31 PM8/5/05

to

"Neener" <NIN...@aol.com> wrote in
news:1123263837....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I have NO idea what would cause the speculation about JFF, as nothing
> in the canon makes any assumptions whatsoever about his sexuality as
> far as I can recall. He is rather pompous and fussy, but that's about
> all I've gotten from reading about him. I think someone's gaydar is
> malfunctioning.

British upper-class prissiness often resembles part of the stereotypical
American "gay sensibility" and so can be misread. In fact what sorts of
behavior and appearance is considered "stereotypically gay" really varies
from culture to culture (as an extreme example, there are many societies,
some of them European, where straight men routinely hug and kiss each other
with absolutely no sexual connotations whatsoever).

The idea that particular names are associated with particular sexualities
has always stuck me as pure stupidity. After all, names are assigned to
kids well before anything could be known about their personalities (choice
of *nicknames* is another matter; at one point it used to be trendy in the
US for gay men to modify their names in certain ways, like Tom becoming
Tomm).

Neener

unread,

Aug 5, 2005, 7:31:06 PM8/5/05

to

I think it's silly as well - and as a denizen of New England, I'm
surrounded by extremely straight men of all ages with hyphenated middle
names who air-kiss everyone within shouting distance :-)

Louis Epstein

unread,

Aug 5, 2005, 8:19:57 PM8/5/05

to

emmits...@hotmail.com wrote:
:

: Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
:> An awful lot of non-slash fan-fiction makes Justin Finch-Fletchley gay.
:
: Well, if you see a name like Fenrir Greyback, you're going to guess
: you're dealing with a werewolf.
:
: If you see a name like Justin Finch-Fletchley, you're going to guess
: you're dealing with a gay man.

Why in the world??

In the USA a hyphenated surname for a kid leads one to think,
"mom was a feminist".

In the UK,it presses the button "aristocrat or wannabe-aristocrat"...
"nob or snob" for short.Since Justin said his family had wanted him
to go to Eton (uppercrust fee-paying school) that's more evidence.

: (By the way, if you're a responsible wizarding parent, consider

: naming your children something like "Tony" or "Lisa" rather
: than "Fangthor," "Rabidia" or "Howlard". It reduces the
: risk of being bitten by a werewolf later in life significantly.)

You know there aren't werewolves out there who like to bite
Tonys and Lisas?

Tim Behrendsen

unread,

Aug 5, 2005, 10:28:43 PM8/5/05

to

"Louis Epstein" <l...@main.put.com> wrote in message

news:adidnWcGz4u...@velocitywest.net...

> emmits...@hotmail.com wrote:
> :
> : Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
> :> An awful lot of non-slash fan-fiction makes Justin Finch-Fletchley
> gay.
> :
> : Well, if you see a name like Fenrir Greyback, you're going to guess
> : you're dealing with a werewolf.
> :
> : If you see a name like Justin Finch-Fletchley, you're going to guess
> : you're dealing with a gay man.
>
> Why in the world??
>
> In the USA a hyphenated surname for a kid leads one to think,
> "mom was a feminist".
>
> In the UK,it presses the button "aristocrat or wannabe-aristocrat"...
> "nob or snob" for short.Since Justin said his family had wanted him
> to go to Eton (uppercrust fee-paying school) that's more evidence.

Besides, if it were anyone, it'd be Colin Creevey. Got that artistic
bent, his open admiration for Harry... :)

Helena Bowles

unread,

Aug 7, 2005, 8:48:27 AM8/7/05

to

<emmits...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123262931.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

>
> Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
> > An awful lot of non-slash fan-fiction makes Justin Finch-Fletchley gay.
>
> Well, if you see a name like Fenrir Greyback, you're going to guess
> you're dealing with a werewolf.
>
> If you see a name like Justin Finch-Fletchley, you're going to guess
> you're dealing with a gay man.

Not really. Chinless wonder, maybe... (ahem, member of the upper
classes - as evidenced by his reference to Eton).
HELENA

Helena Bowles

unread,

Aug 7, 2005, 8:49:47 AM8/7/05

to

"Neener" <NIN...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1123263837....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Actually, Ernie MacMillan is even more pompous and fussy... noone's
really suggesting he might be gay.
HELENA
>

emmits...@hotmail.com

unread,

Aug 7, 2005, 2:07:25 PM8/7/05

to

Louis Epstein wrote:

> emmits...@hotmail.com wrote:
> : If you see a name like Justin Finch-Fletchley, you're going to guess
> : you're dealing with a gay man.
>
> Why in the world??
>
> In the USA a hyphenated surname for a kid leads one to think,
> "mom was a feminist".
>
> In the UK,it presses the button "aristocrat or wannabe-aristocrat"...
> "nob or snob" for short.Since Justin said his family had wanted him
> to go to Eton (uppercrust fee-paying school) that's more evidence.

And in JKR's books, people's names are chosen by the author to match
their identities, not chosen far in advance by their parents.

What I meant as a joke is being taken far too seriously here.

> : (By the way, if you're a responsible wizarding parent, consider
> : naming your children something like "Tony" or "Lisa" rather
> : than "Fangthor," "Rabidia" or "Howlard". It reduces the
> : risk of being bitten by a werewolf later in life significantly.)
>
> You know there aren't werewolves out there who like to bite
> Tonys and Lisas?

I know that if JKR creates another werewolf character, her name won't
be Sally Johnson. It'll be Lycanthra Frey. See what I mean?

Thus the humorous suggestion that you could keep your kid from becoming
a werewolf by not naming them, say, Lupin.

Dave

unread,

Aug 7, 2005, 3:03:52 PM8/7/05

to

Also sprach emmits...@hotmail.com :

:
:Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
<snip>
:(By the way, if you're a responsible wizarding parent, consider

:naming your children something like "Tony" or "Lisa" rather
:than "Fangthor," "Rabidia" or "Howlard". It reduces the
:risk of being bitten by a werewolf later in life significantly.)

So I suppose Lupin's parents having given their son the name "Remus Lupin"
was what really doomed him to a life of howling at the moon ;-)

Dave

unread,

Aug 7, 2005, 3:03:52 PM8/7/05

to

Also sprach ~consul <con...@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com> :

:Mordechai Housman wrote:
:> "Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen" <bffpds@raxacoricofallapatoria>
:>>Gable wrote:
:>>>Slughorn is gay, obviously.
:>>>"[Harry looked around Slughorn's house.] It was stuffy and cluttered,
:>>>yet nobody could say it was uncomfortable; there were soft chairs and
:>>>footstools, drinks and books, boxes of chocolates and plump cushions.
:>>>If Harry had not known who lived there, he would have guessed at a
:>>>rich, fussy old lady." (p. 67)
:>>It wasn't Slughorn's house.
:> It was where he lived. What's the difference if he owned it or if he was
:> squatting there?
:
:Because he didn't decorate it? He's been on the move so much. Though on the other hand, he
:does move that piano into every house, maybe he just moves into empty houses, though that
:seems doubtful.

As the house was empty because the owners were on holiday, I think
your doubts are well founded.

That said, Slughorn does seem a bit ducky. While he does add a few
girls to his "collection" in the present time, the previous Slug Clubs
mentioned seemed to be populated primarily by boys.

Dave

DaveK

unread,

Aug 7, 2005, 6:52:49 PM8/7/05

to

Also sprach "Helena Bowles" <helena...@tiscali.co.uk> :

:
:<emmits...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

:
Or at the very least, a contender for Upper Class Twit of the Year.

DaveK

Helena Bowles

unread,

Aug 7, 2005, 7:56:07 PM8/7/05

to

"DaveK" <so...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pj0df1lclajjl9n94...@4ax.com...

LOL. Yep, that's about it!
HELENA

Helena Bowles

unread,

Aug 7, 2005, 7:58:43 PM8/7/05

to

"Dave" <so...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9cmcf11u04umjv1ae...@4ax.com...

Because boys, in the world referenced by JKR. are more likely to become
powerful, influential and rich, not to mention potential buyers of
crystallised pineapple? But, yes, I caught a suggestion of "powerful old
bugger" in there...
HELENA

T-Online

unread,

Aug 17, 2005, 4:34:17 PM8/17/05

to

"Ian Westerfield" <enqu...@earthlink.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:8x0Ge.18272$aY6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...

Well, perhaps to allow children with rather obtuse parents (and it's many,
not all deal with that kind of "thing") to get a better picture of the
world.

Regardless, i don't think she needs to add yet another sub-plot to a story I
already fail to see and end to within one book, but it wouldn't bother me if
she decided to.

Message has been deleted

Beowulf TrollsHammer

unread,

Aug 17, 2005, 7:07:31 PM8/17/05

to

Mordechai Housman wrote:

> I'm Jewish, and I couldn't care less whether or not there was a
> character with a Jewish name in HP. I can't see why anyone would insist on
> gay characters. If someone wants a gay character, s/he can always read the
> copious slash fanfic that's all over the internet. (Shudder)

I'd definitely like to see Jewish characters or creatures from Jewish
folklore (like golems) in HP. Alas, the narrative is now too close to
its finale so I don't think it'll ever happen.

Phil

unread,

Aug 21, 2005, 1:55:19 PM8/21/05

to

"T-Online" <a...@me.com> wrote in news:de0bsa$3s5$05$1...@news.t-online.com:

The only people who want gays or lesbians in a story are gays and
frigging lesbians.

You people believe if you whine long and loud enough you'll always get
your way.Its worked in councils and media and even the bloody SIMPSONS
have caved in and changed one of the characters to lesbian to keep your
faces straight. You never contribute, you just want to change other
peoples efforts to suit yourselves.

Fish Eye no Miko

unread,

Aug 21, 2005, 3:31:29 PM8/21/05

to

Phil wrote:

> The only people who want gays or lesbians in a story are gays and
> frigging lesbians.

Bullshit.
I'm straight and I want to see more gays and lesbians in the media.

> You people believe if you whine long and loud enough you'll always
> get your way.Its worked in councils and media and even the bloody
> SIMPSONS have caved in

_The Simpsons_ has had a gay character from day one (Mr. Smithers). They
haven't "caved in" to ANYTHING.

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"When Catherine thinks you're too gay, you're too gay."
-Rob Fontenot, aka The Midnight Rambler, RATMM.

Phil

unread,

Aug 21, 2005, 3:38:12 PM8/21/05

to

"Fish Eye no Miko" <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote in message
news:rE4Oe.457$mH.62@fed1read07...

> Phil wrote:
>
>> The only people who want gays or lesbians in a story are gays and
>> frigging lesbians.
>
> Bullshit.
> I'm straight and I want to see more gays and lesbians in the media.

Ah - so you get your jollies watching gays and lesbians. How lovely I DON'T
think.

>> You people believe if you whine long and loud enough you'll always
>> get your way.Its worked in councils and media and even the bloody
>> SIMPSONS have caved in
>
> _The Simpsons_ has had a gay character from day one (Mr. Smithers). They
> haven't "caved in" to ANYTHING.

BOLLOCKS. They caved in to give another gay character - a LESBIAN - from a
character that wasnt before.

Further, I believe that JK Ropwling isnt in a position where she needs to
listen to the "Make a character a gay or a lesbian to keep US happy !"
whatsoever. So don't hold your breath. She's is REALLY straight. Not just
saying it to make a gay point.

Fish Eye no Miko

unread,

Aug 21, 2005, 3:55:49 PM8/21/05

to

Phil wrote:

> "Fish Eye no Miko" <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote:
>> Phil wrote:
>>
>>> The only people who want gays or lesbians in a story are gays and
>>> frigging lesbians.
>>
>> Bullshit.
>> I'm straight and I want to see more gays and lesbians in the media.
>
> Ah - so you get your jollies watching gays and lesbians.

Interesting that you immediately jump to making it sexual...

> How lovely I DON'T think.

And if I cared what you think about my private life, that might mean
something. Oh, but guess what? I DON'T.

>>> You people believe if you whine long and loud enough you'll always
>>> get your way.Its worked in councils and media and even the bloody
>>> SIMPSONS have caved in
>>
>> _The Simpsons_ has had a gay character from day one (Mr.
>> Smithers). They haven't "caved in" to ANYTHING.
>
> BOLLOCKS. They caved in to give another gay character - a LESBIAN -
> from a character that wasnt before.

Or they wanted to make her gay. You really think a show like _The
Simpsons_ feels the need to "cave" into anyone?

> Further, I believe that JK Ropwling isnt in a position where she
> needs to listen to the "Make a character a gay or a lesbian to keep
> US happy !"

You're right, she doesn't. Not do I call ever saying she should. If she
DECIDED to have one, that'd be great.

> whatsoever. So don't hold your breath. She's is REALLY straight.

So?

> Not just saying it to make a gay point.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here...

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net

Right now you are reading my .sig quote.

Phil

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 4:45:59 AM8/22/05

to

> You're right, she doesn't. Not do I call ever saying she should. If she
> DECIDED to have one, that'd be great.<<

To you and the "gay and lesbians in everything" brigade - not the vast,
overwhelming majority though.

>> Not just saying it to make a gay point.
>
> I'm not sure what you're talking about here...
>

Saying there should be gay and lesbian characters in a book series which
apart from originally being for kids, has been hugely successful perhaps in
part because it DIDN'T have gays and lesbians in ? And you say you can't see
what I'm talking about ?
Gays and lesbians seem to think they have a devine right to infiltrate
anything that catches their eye, whether in councils or media, or in this
case demanding characters in a hugely ssuccessful series.

Oh - and if you wish to continue kidding yourself that Patti was made into a
dyke NOT to appease pressure groups** despite being shown in other episodes
as straight please do. (funny how gays and lesbians like to really con
themselves that what they believe everyone believes - that show "Ellen"
nosedived when she mouthed off about being lesbian and how everyone had
better accept it, then the hugely popular show blew up in her face and
plummeted down the ratings) However, doesnt mean you're right.

** I recall one interview a couple of years ago, they admitted they got
demands from pressure groups from this community and that community that
there should be more characters from their type on the show - they never
contribute quality shows themselves, just want to steal what others have
done because they dont have the appeal - and I'll just bet its one community
in paticular.....

juvenal

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 5:01:11 AM8/22/05

to

~consul wrote:
> Mordechai Housman wrote:
> > "Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen" <bffpds@raxacoricofallapatoria>
> >>Gable wrote:
> >>>Slughorn is gay, obviously.
> >>>"[Harry looked around Slughorn's house.] It was stuffy and cluttered,
> >>>yet nobody could say it was uncomfortable; there were soft chairs and
> >>>footstools, drinks and books, boxes of chocolates and plump cushions.
> >>>If Harry had not known who lived there, he would have guessed at a
> >>>rich, fussy old lady." (p. 67)
> >>It wasn't Slughorn's house.
> > It was where he lived. What's the difference if he owned it or if he was
> > squatting there?
>
> Because he didn't decorate it? He's been on the move so much. Though on the other hand, he
> does move that piano into every house, maybe he just moves into empty houses, though that
> seems doubtful.

> --
> "... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For within these Trials, we
> shall do what needs to be done."
> --till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>

As far as I understood the scene, Slughorn takes his furnishings with
him wherever he happens to go: his rooms at Hogwarts appear to be
decorated in the same style.

Eric Bohlman

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 8:44:27 AM8/22/05

to

"Phil" <elast...@lycos.co.uk> wrote in
news:bhgOe.10457$5m3...@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

> - that show "Ellen" nosedived when she mouthed off about being
> lesbian and how everyone had better accept it, then the hugely popular
> show blew up in her face and plummeted down the ratings) However,
> doesnt mean you're right.

Talk about historical revisionism! "Ellen" was in a well-deserved ratings
dive (the show had ceased to be funny) for the *whole year* prior to the
coming-out episode that opened its last season. The ratings actually
*picked up* for a few episodes afterwards, and then resumed their decline
(presumably the novelty wore off) until they reached the point where the
show was cancelled. The lesbian plotline actually restored some humor to
the show; unfortunately it was largely in-group humor, which simply doesn't
work in a sitcom.

Message has been deleted

DrGong

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 10:56:47 AM8/22/05

to

here is my question,...

How would a gay or lesbian wizard or witch futher the storyline?

And if you looking for a "outcast" subplot, there are many more options
(say, like werewolves) that not only carry out the story line, but add
to the texure of a fantasy story.

Then agian, DD might of been gay, but who gives a flip ;)

Mark Evans

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 12:52:21 PM8/22/05

to

diddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote:
>
> I can't figure why someone's sexual preference belongs in the public eye

Do you think marriage should be abolished or just excluded from public
records?

> anyway, unless they are a pedophile, and people should be warned.
> Certainly doesn't belong in childrens' books

You'd best not read any of the Harry Potter books then...

Fish Eye no Miko

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 2:47:29 PM8/22/05

to

Phil wrote:

>> You're right, she doesn't. Not do I call ever saying she should. If she
>> DECIDED to have one, that'd be great.<<
>
> To you and the "gay and lesbians in everything" brigade - not the
> vast, overwhelming majority though.

Yes, I was referring to my own feelings about the issue.

>>> Not just saying it to make a gay point.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you're talking about here...
>>
> Saying there should be gay and lesbian characters in a book series which
> apart from originally being for kids, has been hugely
> successful perhaps in part because it DIDN'T have gays and
> lesbians in ?

Riiiight.. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there thinking, "Wow,
there's no gay characters in this--that makes me WANT to get it".

> And you say you can't see what I'm talking about ?
> Gays and lesbians seem to think they have a devine right to
> infiltrate anything that catches their eye, whether in councils
> or media, or in this case demanding characters in a hugely
> ssuccessful series.

YES! Gays want to be represented in the media and have their interests
looked after in the government. Who doesn't? Would you, as a man, be
happy if only women were seen in the media (well, WE could show men--as
rapists and criminals and degenerates who need to be killed of "cured" of
their masculinity, I suppose), and you had no voice in the government?

> Oh - and if you wish to continue kidding yourself that Patti was
> made into a dyke NOT to appease pressure groups**

I stand by my assertion that this was done voluntarily. Doesn't the fact
that they already had a gay character on the show sorta tell you where the
makers of the Simpsons stand on the issue...?

> despite being shown in other episodes as straight please do.

Cuz no one comes to the realization they're gay later in life.
Wait, yes they do.

> (funny how gays and lesbians like to really con themselves that
> what they believe everyone believes - that show "Ellen" nosedived when
> she mouthed off about being lesbian

No. _Ellen_ was already doing poorly in the ratings. In fact, the coming
out was meant to give the show a boost.
Funny how some straight people have to resort to lies to try to make their
point.

> and how everyone had better accept it, then the hugely popular show

I don't think _Ellen_ was EVER "hugely popular".

> blew up in her face and plummeted down the
> ratings) However, doesnt mean you're right.

Actually, you're the one who's wrong.

> ** I recall one interview a couple of years ago, they admitted they
> got demands from pressure groups from this community

I'd love to see your source on that.
Oh, and
1) "Got demands" != "gave into them" (if this was " a couple of years
ago", surely the story would have happened then?
2) "This community" is like saying "all feminists"... not all gays feels
the same way about these issues, and to imply that ALL of the gay people
got together and demanded something is beyond ludicrous. In fact, all
throughout your posts you talk about "gays and lesbians" as if they're one
big monolithic group who all believe and want the same things. Again,
that's ludicrous.
3) Who's "they" exactly? Matt Groening? Fox?

> and that community that there should be more characters from their type
> on the show - they never contribute quality shows
> themselves,

Yeah.. _Dennis Miller, _The Wonder Years_.. Those shows sucked...
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0616083/
(yes, he's gay: Note the part where he mentions Will being based on
himself).

> just want to steal what others have done because they dont
> have the appeal - and I'll just bet its one community in paticular.....

Yeah. Gays never contribute.
So, you've never seen _Psycho_ (Tony Perkins was gay). Or seen a Rock
Hudson film. Or seen the _Lord of the Rings_ or the _X-Men_ films (both of
which feature openly gay actor Sir Ian McKellen). Or read a story by Oscar
Wilde. Or listened to a song by Elton John, or Melissa Etheridge, or Judas
Priest (former lead singer Rob Halford's been out for several years now),
or REM, or Culture Club, or George Michael (or Wham!), or kd lang or...

Fish Eye no Miko

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 2:53:52 PM8/22/05

to

diddy wrote:

> I can't figure why someone's sexual preference belongs in the

> public eye anyway,

Yeah! You, that straight couple over there! Stop holding hands! And
Frank, don't show a picture of your wife at the office, and Linda don't
tell us about your date with James! I mean, like diddy said, your sexual
preference has NO business being in the public eye!

> Certainly doesn't belong in childrens' books

You're right. Jo should go through the last few books and take out all the
references to Harry being infatuated with/pining over Cho, and snogging
Ginny. And what about Ron and Lavender! None of those things belong in a
children's series!

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net

"Everything in this room is eatable. Even I am eatable. But that's called
cannibalism, my dear children, and is frowned on in most societies."
-Willy Wonka, _Charlie and the Chocolate Factory_.

Fish Eye no Miko

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 2:56:33 PM8/22/05

to

DrGong wrote:

> here is my question,...
> How would a gay or lesbian wizard or witch futher the storyline?

How does, say, Remus dating Tonks "further the storyline"? How does the
implication that Filch and Pince are an item "further the storyline"?

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net

DrGong

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 3:05:05 PM8/22/05

to

In some series, where the charicter naturally grows into making a
charicter homosexual, then fine, for example, not many people gripe
about willow in buffy the vampire slayer being gay, as it (at least
from the people I have talked to who watch buffy) was a natural
progression of her charicter, while out of all the charicters in Harry
potter, who would be a homosexual?

The worst thing that a writer can do is make or change a character just
to meet some sort of quota... would the LOTR been better if one of the
hobbits where replaced by a Haradrim to meet some sort of "proper"
ethnic quota?

Fish Eye no Miko

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 5:20:31 PM8/22/05

to

DrGong wrote:

> In some series, where the charicter naturally grows into making
> a charicter homosexual, then fine, for example, not many people
> gripe about willow in buffy the vampire slayer being gay,

So her relationsip with Oz was... what, exactly?
I still think they would have been better off calling her bisexual. Saying
she was gay either implies you can "become" gay, or makes her relationship
with Oz seem... odd, to say the least.

> as it (at least from the people I have talked to who watch buffy)
> was a natural progression of her charicter, while out of all the
> charicters in Harry potter, who would be a homosexual?

Well, since we've seen so few of the adults in relationships with EITHER
gender, arguably, any of those people could be gay. I'm not saying they
are, I'm just saying that, since we have no evidence one way or another for
a lot of them I don't see why it would be hard to believe one of them is.

> The worst thing that a writer can do is make or change a character
> just to meet some sort of quota...

True. But, frankly, I don't see anyone saying that that should happen.
I'm not.

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net

"I believe that if anything is worth doing, it would have been done
already."

T.M. Sommers

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 6:15:42 PM8/22/05

to

Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
> DrGong wrote:
>
>>here is my question,...
>>How would a gay or lesbian wizard or witch futher the storyline?
>
> How does, say, Remus dating Tonks "further the storyline"?

By providing a precedent for a woman refusing to take no for an
answer from a man, so that when Ginny does that with Harry it
will appear more natural.

--
Thomas M. Sommers -- t...@nj.net -- AB2SB

DrGong

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 7:05:28 PM8/22/05

to

Well, I never watched buffy, as when I was going to school, none of the
local channels where WB, thus, no buffy, not that I was too unhappy
with that. So I don't know who (or really care) on who willow been
with on that show, but I do know that it was a natural progression for
her to be a lesbian, and it wasn't forced. At least that what I have
been told by fans of the show.

Ellen used the whole Gay saga to try to boost it sagging ratings, as it
had ceased to be funny some time before, and its ratings showed that.

As for Tonks and Remus, it did a few things

Gave you a very harry potter moment where you been lead to think one
thing (she was pining for serious) when in fact it was Lupin.

That girls in the wizard world have a backbone and won't go off and
moan when a guy tries to ditch them, which follows the moment of
potter being a Prat and trying to dump Ginny.

Gives Remus fans something to smile about, as a whole , Remus, who is
one of her better charicters, finding something for him to smile about
in this grim time. are you upset that it turned out that serious and
Remus where not close personal buddies?

DD could of been Gay for all we know, but really, is there any one in
the potter universe that would make sense being gay that is still
living?

perhaps slughorn? Thats about it.....

Fish Eye no Miko

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 7:37:02 PM8/22/05

to

DrGong wrote:

> Well, I never watched buffy, as when I was going to school,
> none of the local channels where WB, thus, no buffy, not
> that I was too unhappy with that. So I don't know who (or
> really care) on who willow been with on that show,

Oz was a guy. How can she be a lesbian if she had been in love with a guy?
Either she was "confused" when she was Oz, or he was a 'beard", both of
which really degrades that relationship...

> but I do know that it was a natural progression for
> her to be a lesbian, and it wasn't forced.

I agree that her relationship with Tara was great. So was her relationship
with Oz. Which is why I think it would have been better for them to refer
to her as bisexual. The whole "I'm gay now" thing... it doesn't work that
way, guys.

> At least that what I have been told by fans of the show.

Well, I'm telling you I look at it differently.

> As for Tonks and Remus, it did a few things
> Gave you a very harry potter moment where you been lead to think
> one thing (she was pining for serious) when in fact it was Lupin.

And the point of that was... what, exactly? It's not as if there wasn't
enough of a plot in this book, as it was.

> That girls in the wizard world have a backbone and won't go off
> and moan when a guy tries to ditch them,

Wasn't she doing that for most of the book?

> Gives Remus fans something to smile about, as a whole , Remus,
> who is one of her better charicters, finding something for him to
> smile about in this grim time. are you upset that it turned out that
> serious and Remus where not close personal buddies?

Yes, a bit, as I've already said.
But then, I also think Sirius' death was pretty pointless.

> DD could of been Gay for all we know, but really, is there any one
> in the potter universe that would make sense being gay that is still
> living?

I've already answered this question.

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net

Fish Eye no Miko

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 7:39:41 PM8/22/05

to

T.M. Sommers wrote:

> Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>> DrGong wrote:
>>
>>> here is my question,...
>>> How would a gay or lesbian wizard or witch futher the storyline?
>>
>> How does, say, Remus dating Tonks "further the storyline"?
>
> By providing a precedent for a woman refusing to take no for an
> answer from a man,

Which they could have done with Bill and Fleur.

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net

T.M. Sommers

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 7:46:03 PM8/22/05

to

Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
> T.M. Sommers wrote:
>>Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>>>DrGong wrote:
>>>
>>>>here is my question,...
>>>>How would a gay or lesbian wizard or witch futher the storyline?
>>>
>>>How does, say, Remus dating Tonks "further the storyline"?
>>
>>By providing a precedent for a woman refusing to take no for an
>>answer from a man,
>
> Which they could have done with Bill and Fleur.

Bill hadn't been putting Fleur off for a year or so.

DrGong

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 7:58:36 PM8/22/05

to

>Oz was a guy. How can she be a lesbian if she had been in love with a guy?
>Either she was "confused" when she was Oz, or he was a 'beard", both of
>which really degrades that relationship...

So I guess those who figure out that they are gay when they have had
relationships with the other sex are not really gay? Please.....

A guy I know in high school was gay, and we all knew it except for
him, and he dated a couple of girls, and insisted he was in love with
one. Now he found his life partner and apprently had a marriage with
the man in the last year. that doesn't mean that he not gay, or that
he bisexual, it just that it took him a while to accept the fact that
he was gay. He not bi-sexual, as he would never look to a girl for a
relationship any more, just took him a while to figure out who he was,
There are those who don't figure that out till they have 3 kids!

>And the point of that was... what, exactly? It's not as if there wasn't
>enough of a plot in this book, as it was.

Keeping the formula for potter books, we knew draco was up to no good,
and that Snape had a bond to finish whatever evil Draco was up to.

SS/PS - Snape not the one after the stone
COS - the diary is the evil
POA - Serious is not guilty
GoF - the DADA teacher really is a DE acting like mad eye...
Ect ect....

>Wasn't she doing that for most of the book?

my mistake - Tonks didn't give up and go find another guy, she went
after remus till he relented (and good for him too)

>Yes, a bit, as I've already said.
>But then, I also think Sirius' death was pretty pointless.

The Remus/Serious could of been the homosexuals of the potter universe,
and it wouldn't of been shocking for JKR to metion that remus moved in
with Serious and left it at that. However it was just as logical for
Remus to be not gay, and the writer moved to that direction.

>I've already answered this question.

Sorry, must of missed that, where at?

Fish Eye no Miko

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 8:06:23 PM8/22/05

to

T.M. Sommers wrote:

> Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>> T.M. Sommers wrote:
>>> Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>>>> DrGong wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> here is my question,...
>>>>> How would a gay or lesbian wizard or witch futher the storyline?
>>>>
>>>> How does, say, Remus dating Tonks "further the storyline"?
>>>
>>> By providing a precedent for a woman refusing to take no for an
>>> answer from a man,
>>
>> Which they could have done with Bill and Fleur.
>
> Bill hadn't been putting Fleur off for a year or so.

OTOH:
Remus & Tonks: he's been putting off, so they haven't had any
relationship.
Bill & Fleur: They have had one, and he could have tried to put her off
NOW because of what happened to him.
The second scenario is a far better parallel to Harry and Ginny than the
first.
Ya know what? I'm kinda tired of discussing the Tonks/Remus thing. So I'm
not gonna, after this.

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net

"I never got around to thanking you."
"And you'll never have to."
-Gordon and Batman, in _Batman Begins_.

Fish Eye no Miko

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 8:20:21 PM8/22/05

to

DrGong wrote:

>> Oz was a guy. How can she be a lesbian if she had been in love
>> with a guy? Either she was "confused" when she was Oz, or he
>> was a 'beard", both of which really degrades that relationship...
>
> So I guess those who figure out that they are gay when they have
> had relationships with the other sex are not really gay? Please.....

No, I'm saying: If she's really gay, what does it say about her
relationship with Oz?

> A guy I know in high school was gay, and we all knew it except for
> him, and he dated a couple of girls, and insisted he was in love
> with one.

Yes, but you all knew better, right? And you wouldn't call what he had
with this woman real love, ne?
So again, what does that say about Willow's relationship with Oz, if her
discovering that she's gay followed the same path as your friend?

> Now he found his life partner and apprently had a marriage
> with the man in the last year. that doesn't mean that he not
> gay, or that he bisexual, it just that it took him a while to
> accept the fact that he was gay. He not bi-sexual, as he would
> never look to a girl for a relationship any more, just took him a
> while to figure out who he was, There are those who don't figure
> that out till they have 3 kids!

I'm aware of that. This issue here is that there was no reason in the
world to think Willow wasn't in love with Oz. But then she realizes she's
"gay now"...

>> And the point of that was... what, exactly? It's not as if there
>> wasn't enough of a plot in this book, as it was.
>
> Keeping the formula for potter books, we knew draco was up to no
> good, and that Snape had a bond to finish whatever evil Draco was
> up to.
> SS/PS - Snape not the one after the stone
> COS - the diary is the evil
> POA - Serious is not guilty
> GoF - the DADA teacher really is a DE acting like mad eye...
> Ect ect....

I fail to see your point? Every book had to have a red herring, is that
it?

>> Yes, a bit, as I've already said.
>> But then, I also think Sirius' death was pretty pointless.
>
> The Remus/Serious could of been the homosexuals of the potter
> universe, and it wouldn't of been shocking for JKR to metion that
> remus moved in with Serious and left it at that. However it was
> just as logical for Remus to be not gay,

Why?

>> I've already answered this question.
>
> Sorry, must of missed that, where at?

It was in answer to you saying pretty much this some thing in another part
of the thread...

In the question you snipped out above, you said:
"but really, is there any one in the potter universe that would make sense
being gay that is still living?"

In the other part of the thread, you asked:

"while out of all the charicters in Harry potter, who would be a
homosexual?"

To which I answered:

"Well, since we've seen so few of the adults in relationships with EITHER
gender, arguably, any of those people could be gay. I'm not saying they
are, I'm just saying that, since we have no evidence one way or another for
a lot of them I don't see why it would be hard to believe one of them is."

Catherine Johnson.

DrGong

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 10:11:03 PM8/22/05

to

First of all, Just wanted to add that I don't intend this to be a
flaming war, just a diffrence in opinon ;)

>No, I'm saying: If she's really gay, what does it say about her
>relationship with Oz?

She would most likely think of it as a mistake, then agian, most folks
have relationships that they thought was great, only to relize they
where wrong...

>Yes, but you all knew better, right? And you wouldn't call what he had
>with this woman real love, ne?
>So again, what does that say about Willow's relationship with Oz, if her
>discovering that she's gay followed the same path as your friend?

Well, concidering I never watched buffy, I really can't say, I am just
saying a gay person can think they are in love before they figure out
they are gay....and sometimes it can be a surpise that they are gay, as
in some cases, as i metioned, they had seemly happy marriages with kids
before it comes out, and I am sure one can say that they truely loved
their wives/husbands.....or by all appearces appeared to...

>Why?

Simply put, the wizard world is not exactly a place of
understanding, and one already had mined the rich viens of a
outcaste/person who hides something, to top him off as gay would in the
wizard world, make it a total isolation guy (I don't see the wizard
world, in a relm where purity of blood is important to a lot of folks,
that being outside the norm in your sexual relations would be
oked...but that just me...) JKR doesn't try to beat one over the head
too much, and making remus gay would of been a little forced, then
agian, this is totally my opinon, and it would of been not outlandish
to make remus and serious gay, nor would it be outlandish to make remus
and serious non-gay.

Its all relitive, DD brother might of done something with a goat that
just wrong ;)

Fish Eye no Miko

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 11:16:36 PM8/22/05

to

DrGong wrote:

> First of all, Just wanted to add that I don't intend this to be a
> flaming war, just a diffrence in opinon ;)
>
>> No, I'm saying: If she's really gay, what does it say about her
>> relationship with Oz?
>
> She would most likely think of it as a mistake,

But she doesn't. In fact before she and Tara really got involved, Oz came
back to town, and she considered taking him back.

>> Yes, but you all knew better, right? And you wouldn't call what
>> he had with this woman real love, ne?
>> So again, what does that say about Willow's relationship with Oz,
>> if her discovering that she's gay followed the same path as your
>> friend?
>
> Well, concidering I never watched buffy, I really can't say, I am
> just saying a gay person can think they are in love before they
> figure out they are gay....

There's no evidence that Willow wasn't in love with Oz.

> and sometimes it can be a surpise that they are gay, as in some
> cases, as i metioned, they had seemly happy marriages with kids
> before it comes out, and I am sure one can say that they truely
> loved their wives/husbands.....or by all appearces appeared to...

Or, an easier explanation in this case: The writers screwed up.

>> Why?
>
> Simply put, the wizard world is not exactly a place of
> understanding,

That's why he wouldn't be OUT, not why he wouldn't be GAY.
Oh, and they're pretty-minded about women playing all sort of roles in
society. There's some correlation between societies that are open-minded
about women's roles and ones that are open-minded about homosexuality.

Angrie.Woman

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 11:45:39 PM8/22/05

to

Phil wrote:

>
> ** I recall one interview a couple of years ago, they admitted they got
> demands from pressure groups from this community and that community that
> there should be more characters from their type on the show - they never
> contribute quality shows themselves, just want to steal what others have
> done because they dont have the appeal - and I'll just bet its one community
> in paticular.....

Do you have any clue how active that community is in show business? I
can't imagine the need for much external pressure. I honestly think that
the TV world shows a higher percantage of gay and lesbian characters
than I personally know because it is a bigger part of the lives of the
writers. It isn't some odd plot to take over the media. It is just a
plot device. Sheesh.

A

Angrie.Woman

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 11:47:51 PM8/22/05

to

My biggest problem was that nobody ever talked about the fact that she
dated guys. I was really looking forward to seeing the humor of the
process, but it was just an "Oh, I'm gay!" with no absolutely depth.
Funny or not, they lost me there.

A

DrGong

unread,

Aug 22, 2005, 11:59:48 PM8/22/05

to

sniping all of buffy related stuff, as i have watched all of 5 mins of
the series ;) Just that it was favorably compared to say, ellen, but
its all hersay from me.....

As for remus.....

I do like the remus charicter, he well thought out, a darn good wizard
(can do spells without wands and in the battle at MoM, he and DD where
about the only ones who didn't end up dead, hurt, or knocked out....in
fact, I don't have OotP withe me, but it might be indeed he was the
only one other then DD, but I want to give me wiggle room since I don't
have the book in front of me...)

He could of been written gay, he could of been a widower, or he could
of easily been one of the men who been a outcaste all his life that he
builds up a mental wall saying "I will be single all my life" perhaps I
feel that that is more natural for me to think of him as the third
option, as remus kinda reminds me of me (minus that whole full moon
thing), and since I am in the hetro camp in life I saw remus as a
lonely hetrosexual with some confindice with women issues then a
homosexual who stays in the closet for his own protection....

speaking of relationships, one that Hasn't been metioned is that snape
and Narcissa Malfoy, as the cold, calulating snape was rather warm and
kind to Narcissa...perhaps thats a whole other thread ;)

A.G.McDowell

unread,

Aug 23, 2005, 1:43:23 AM8/23/05

to

In article <1124751928.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
DrGong <Drg...@yahoo.com> writes

>
> DD could of been Gay for all we know, but really, is there any one in
>the potter universe that would make sense being gay that is still
>living?
>
>perhaps slughorn? Thats about it.....
>

Aberforth? (If anybody really wants to analyse the martyrdom of
Aberforth Dumbledore by a narrow and dirty-minded press the starting
point is "Rita Skeeter's Scoop" in Gof :-))
--
A.G.McDowell