Why so angry?
Dani
time. Is he gonna have to learn how to control it (like Luke in Star Wars
and the dark side of the force)?
And this is probably a real stupid question, but are Hermione and Ron a
couple or what? LOL
This is coming from a newbie HP fan who just read all the books and is
awaiting the next movie and book.
:)
Thanks,
Dani
Miranda
news:w%ifd.32166$l07....@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
> I just read OotP and all through it I noticed that Harry is so angry
> all the time.
Hi Dani. Yeah, it was a bit sudden - he is very angry and very shouty. But
looking back at the other books, he held back his anger then quite often.
The ending of GoF seems to be the triggering event that unleashed his rage.
And Dumbledore seemed to think that he wasn't angry enough!
> Is he gonna have to learn how to control it (like Luke
> in Star Wars and the dark side of the force)?
Or like anyone should who grows up. Otherwise there'll be air rage
incidents on his broom one day. :)
> And this is probably a real stupid question, but are Hermione and Ron
> a couple or what? LOL
It's a good question actually. Some suspect that off-stage, they have
become a couple. Personally I think not yet, but that there are strong
feelings between them. Despite the bickering, they did grow even closer in
OotP, and it is clear they talk together a great deal when Harry is not
there. Granted, they are often talking about Harry, but still...
> This is coming from a newbie HP fan who just read all the books and is
> awaiting the next movie and book.
Hoo-boy; tell me about it. At least the PoA DVD is out next(?) month.
That'll have to tide us over for now.
Miranda
Sirius Kase
Miranda <mir...@mschumacher.com> wrote:
> "Dani" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in
> news:w%ifd.32166$l07....@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
>
>
> > I just read OotP and all through it I noticed that Harry is so angry
> > all the time.
>
> Hi Dani. Yeah, it was a bit sudden - he is very angry and very shouty. But
> looking back at the other books, he held back his anger then quite often.
> The ending of GoF seems to be the triggering event that unleashed his rage.
> And Dumbledore seemed to think that he wasn't angry enough!
I think he's been angry in every book, not continuously, but a
significant portion of the time. In the earlier books, he was
suppressing it very well, probably too well. Could be hormones and it
could be he feels comfortable enough in his relationships to let it out
on his friends. Earlier books specifically mentioned that he did not
want to upset his friends. The severity of the GoF experience, combined
with the fact that everyone including Ron and Hermione were keeping
things from him may have made him feel entitled.
>
> > Is he gonna have to learn how to control it (like Luke
> > in Star Wars and the dark side of the force)?
>
> Or like anyone should who grows up. Otherwise there'll be air rage
> incidents on his broom one day. :)
I'm sure he will, but like every little mistake he makes, it will
probably have some negative consequences to complicate his life.
>
> > And this is probably a real stupid question, but are Hermione and Ron
> > a couple or what? LOL
>
> It's a good question actually. Some suspect that off-stage, they have
> become a couple. Personally I think not yet, but that there are strong
> feelings between them. Despite the bickering, they did grow even closer in
> OotP, and it is clear they talk together a great deal when Harry is not
> there. Granted, they are often talking about Harry, but still...
It's a very good question. It's not obvious if it is. I was surprised
that Harry didn't suspect anything after they spent a good chunk of the
summer together writing similarly uninformative annoying letters to him.
Or maybe the stuff about, we'd tell you, but Dumbledore told us not to,
was enough for him to realize it wasn't their love life. But he seems
to have only one thing on his mind all summer, maybe he hasn't enough
room in his head due to more worisome stuff like voldy, umbridge,
hagrid's mysterious injuries, weird dreams, the DA, etc.
>
> > This is coming from a newbie HP fan who just read all the books and is
> > awaiting the next movie and book.
>
> Hoo-boy; tell me about it. At least the PoA DVD is out next(?) month.
> That'll have to tide us over for now.
>
> Miranda
It's amazing how much derivative literature has been writtin about HP.
Not just fanfic, but scholarly critiques and analysis. It's not all
good, but much of it is worth a look.
--
Sirius Kase
The FAQ, on your newsreader: <100j0fc...@corp.supernews.com>
or on your web browser: <http://tinyurl.com/24czw>
another good website: <http://www.hogwarts-library.net/reference/>
Richard Eney
Sirius Kase <siriu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Miranda <mir...@mschumacher.com> wrote:
<snips>
>>Dani wrote
>> > and is awaiting the next movie and book.
>>
>> Hoo-boy; tell me about it. At least the PoA DVD is out next(?) month.
>> That'll have to tide us over for now.
>
>good, but much of it is worth a look.
For the science-minded, I really liked _The Science of Harry Potter_.
Some of it sounded like some of the discussions on here a long time ago,
especially the part about how you might make an invisibility cloak using
electronics.
=Tamar
Christopher Nehren
curious markings:
> I just read OotP and all through it I noticed that Harry is so angry all the
> time.
I see that you've never been an adolescent male.
--
I abhor a system designed for the "user", if that word is a coded
pejorative meaning "stupid and unsophisticated". -- Ken Thompson
-
Unix is user friendly. However, it isn't idiot friendly.
Toon
>I just read OotP and all through it I noticed that Harry is so angry all the
>time. Is he gonna have to learn how to control it (like Luke in Star Wars
>and the dark side of the force)?
No, it won't be like STar Wars, because not everybody thinks it's the
greatest plot of all time.
>And this is probably a real stupid question, but are Hermione and Ron a
>couple or what? LOL
Soon. Very soon.
---
SOS - Save Our Shemione. Help Support And Link To:
http://www.anzwers.org/free/shemione/index.html
--
Hoshisato
When I look back at myself as an adolescent, I can only confess that I
was pretty angry and irritable as well for long periods. I recognize
that and enjoy the fact that JKR really lets Harry mature in a
realistic way.
IMO, Hermione and Ron are about to become an official couple;
Hermione, being a girl, knows this about herself already, but Ron has
not discovered why he is behaving around Hermione the way he does. He
will find this out though ^_^
Carpetbagger
>the
> time.
Chalk it up to hormones or the fact that almost every adult is either
lying to him/misleading him or treating him like a child.
Norbert Kühlthau
> When I look back at myself as an adolescent, I can only confess that I
> was pretty angry and irritable as well for long periods. I recognize
> that and enjoy the fact that JKR really lets Harry mature in a
> realistic way.
That's a good point, but:
why is only Harry maturing realistically, and not every pupil in
Hogwarts?
Norbert
Norbert Kühlthau
> I just read OotP and all through it I noticed that Harry is so angry all the
> time.
The growing anger might be a sign for Voldemorts growing influence on
Harry.
> Is he gonna have to learn how to control it (like Luke in Star Wars
> and the dark side of the force)?
sigh... I feel like the single left person on earth who didn't watch
star wars. It seems to be the reference point for every other story.
Norbert
Christopher Nehren
curious markings:
> sigh... I feel like the single left person on earth who didn't watch
> star wars. It seems to be the reference point for every other story.
Nope, you're not. I completely refuse to watch any part of it because of
its highly archetypal, predictable, *boring* nature.
BubblyBabs
"Christopher Nehren" <ape...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:20041026132...@prophecy.dyndns.org...
>>sigh... I feel like the single left person on earth who didn't watch
>>star wars. It seems to be the reference point for every other story.
>>
>>Norbert
>
>Nope, you're not. I completely refuse to watch any part of it because of
>its highly archetypal, predictable, *boring* nature.
Well, when Star Wars first came out it was very cool... I'm guessing you
are too young to understand which makes me feel ancient...
Babs
Ch...@nospam.com
<no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> I just read OotP and all through it I noticed that Harry is so angry all the
> time.
welcome to the world of a teenager.
and actually he was angry before, he just didn't act on it. now, those
raging hormones have just overridden his ability to keep his mouth
shut.
if anything the twins were right when they were joking about keeping it
all inside. it is dangerous. if Harry had vented before then he
wouldn't have blown up quite as big this time. but he had a lot of
venting to catch up on.
Jan van Aalderen
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 07:55:46 EDT, Norbert Kühlthau scribbled
> these curious markings:
>
>> sigh... I feel like the single left person on earth who didn't
>> watch star wars. It seems to be the reference point for every other
>> story.
>
>
> Nope, you're not. I completely refuse to watch any part of it because
> of its highly archetypal, predictable, *boring* nature.
Of course you only can *know* that if you have *not* seen the movies.
Since I have seen them, my memory of them is different.
--
Vriendelijke groet,
Jan van Aalderen, Amstelveen
*-------------------------------------------------------------*
Wie mijn raad volgt, doet zulks geheel op eigen risico!
Reactie op usenetpostjes in de groep. Email zie ik niet.
*-------------------------------------------------------------*
Dark Magic
"Miranda" <mir...@mschumacher.com> wrote in message
news:Xns958DEBBCB...@216.196.97.142...
> "Dani" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in
> news:w%ifd.32166$l07....@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
>
>
> > I just read OotP and all through it I noticed that Harry is so angry
> > all the time.
>
> Hi Dani. Yeah, it was a bit sudden - he is very angry and very shouty. But
> looking back at the other books, he held back his anger then quite often.
> The ending of GoF seems to be the triggering event that unleashed his
rage.
Yeah, well, who doesn't get a little cranky now and again after they've been
kidnapped and tortured? I hate when that happens.
> And Dumbledore seemed to think that he wasn't angry enough!
>
He's right. Harry isn't angry enough, especially at Dumbledore.
> > Is he gonna have to learn how to control it (like Luke
> > in Star Wars and the dark side of the force)?
>
I don't recall Luke having a whole lot of rage. He tended to whine a bit.
> Or like anyone should who grows up. Otherwise there'll be air rage
> incidents on his broom one day. :)
>
Now *that* is something we ought to hear about.
> > And this is probably a real stupid question, but are Hermione and Ron
> > a couple or what? LOL
>
> It's a good question actually. Some suspect that off-stage, they have
> become a couple. Personally I think not yet, but that there are strong
> feelings between them. Despite the bickering, they did grow even closer in
> OotP,
I found it very interesting that at the end of GoF Viktor Krum had invited
Hermione to come visit *him* over the summer holiday, but when OotP opens we
see that Hermione has her spent her summer with Ron. Oh, and they *were*
alone together in a bedroom, with the door closed, when Harry walked in.
and it is clear they talk together a great deal when Harry is not
> there.
Adding to his paranoia.....
Granted, they are often talking about Harry, but still...
>
> > This is coming from a newbie HP fan who just read all the books and is
> > awaiting the next movie and book.
>
> Hoo-boy; tell me about it. At least the PoA DVD is out next(?) month.
> That'll have to tide us over for now.
>
Not thrilled with the PoA movie, although I'll probably buy it for the kids.
The next book had better be good, I mean really good with a lot of answers
and no more plot-hole filler.
Shannon
Dark Magic
"BubblyBabs" <newsgroup_at_fra...@newsgroup.com> wrote in
message news:Yosfd.45058$mn5....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
were so impressed with the special effects in Star Wars that we left the
theatre bumping into the walls. I just saw a special on the making of Star
Wars where the special effects people who worked with Lucas admitted that
they were just as astonished as everyone else by the finished product. They
walked out of the theatre asking each other, "How'd that happen?"
And Mark Hamill says that he, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher tormented
George Lucas ruthlessly about the script, the costumes, the sets,
everything...they thought for sure they were involved in the biggest movie
making bomb of all time until they saw it.
Shannon
>
>
Christopher Nehren
curious markings:
>
> > >Nope, you're not. I completely refuse to watch any part of it because of
> > >its highly archetypal, predictable, *boring* nature.
> >
> > Well, when Star Wars first came out it was very cool... I'm guessing you
> > are too young to understand which makes me feel ancient...
> >
> Ain't that the truth. Kids today just don't understand how we old timers
> were so impressed with the special effects in Star Wars that we left the
> theatre bumping into the walls. I just saw a special on the making of Star
Yawn. And I suppose the original Star Trek was nothing? I'm saying that
Star Wars sucks because it has no value as a story. Anyone with a budget
or creativity can make special effects. Give me something besides eye
candy, and then I'll rescind my "SW sucks!" credo.
And are you sure that it was the *movie* that caused you to bump into the
walls?
Miranda
news:GuadnT_gb90...@comcast.com:
<snip>
> I found it very interesting that at the end of GoF Viktor Krum had
> invited Hermione to come visit *him* over the summer holiday, but when
> OotP opens we see that Hermione has her spent her summer with Ron.
Yes; she chose him and the OotP, over Victor _and_ her parents that summer.
> Oh, and they *were* alone together in a bedroom, with the door closed,
> when Harry walked in.
Evidence that Mrs Weasley is still a Harry-Hermione shipper. Otherwise
she'd probably have Ron and Hermione chaperoned.
Miranda
Christopher Nehren
curious markings:
> > Oh, and they *were* alone together in a bedroom, with the door closed,
> > when Harry walked in.
>
> Evidence that Mrs Weasley is still a Harry-Hermione shipper. Otherwise
> she'd probably have Ron and Hermione chaperoned.
Do you perhaps mean Ron-Hermione 'shipper? If not, then I don't get what
you mean, and humbly ask for an explanation.
Sirius Kase
dic...@radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote:
yeah, everyone ripped off my great idea, I'd never heard it before I
explained it here, now it's popping up everywhere. They even had a
variation on Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, the See Thru TV was
actually much simpler, but same idea.
Just for the record so everyone knows who had it first.
Sirius Kase
n...@despammed.com (Norbert Kühlthau) wrote:
1. We ride around in harry's mind and get to notice emotions and
thoughts even when he doesn't express them
2. He's expressing them more than in previous books, making it even
more noticable.
Sirius Kase
Christopher Nehren <ape...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 07:55:46 EDT, Norbert Kühlthau scribbled these
> curious markings:
> > sigh... I feel like the single left person on earth who didn't watch
> > star wars. It seems to be the reference point for every other story.
>
> Nope, you're not. I completely refuse to watch any part of it because of
> its highly archetypal, predictable, *boring* nature.
Which you only know second hand because you apparently only pay
attention to the people who didn't like it. Considering how many people
continue to enjoy it 30 years after it came out, even someone like me
who has only seen it a couple of times and didn't go overboard about it
knows that it's a significant story. I'd know that even if I hadn't
seen it.
I was 18 when it came out. I have never before or after had such a
total movie experience. all the conversations it launched about movie
making, hero's journey, the spiritual aspects of the force, adaptation
of a western to a scifi setting making it much different than any that
came before, and all the general craziness. Nothing, not even HP was
ever come close.
Sirius Kase
wrote:
People have commented about Ron's unpleasant tendency to complain about
lots of insignificant stuff and we've all noticed how Hermione and Ron
bicker, but don't allow themselves to get upset about it. These are
mechanisms that help them deal with their frustrations without losing
control.
Harry, on the other hand, hasn't learned how to vent safely. The twins
WERE right. He needs to learn how to express himself without losing his
ability to think clearly or we will see more pointless catastrophes.
Harry has another problem more unique to himself, he is a public figure,
people notice every little screwup he makes. if he loses control
anymore, he will enhance his reputation of being an unstable person.
Even being right won't help him completely overcome it. If he continues
to be very private except for when he's losing it, no one will realize
that most of the time he's an extremely rational, well controlled person.
Miranda
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 19:01:48 EDT, Miranda scribbled these
> curious markings:
>> > Oh, and they *were* alone together in a bedroom, with the door closed,
>> > when Harry walked in.
>>
>> Evidence that Mrs Weasley is still a Harry-Hermione shipper. Otherwise
>> she'd probably have Ron and Hermione chaperoned.
>
> Do you perhaps mean Ron-Hermione 'shipper? If not, then I don't get what
> you mean, and humbly ask for an explanation.
Forgot the smiley. :)
My meaning...that Mrs Weasley suspects nothing between Ron and
Hermione...she is a protective mother hen who wouldn't leave them
unchaperoned in a bedroom together if she thought they were crushing on
each other.
Miranda
Christopher Nehren
curious markings:
> My meaning...that Mrs Weasley suspects nothing between Ron and
> Hermione...she is a protective mother hen who wouldn't leave them
> unchaperoned in a bedroom together if she thought they were crushing on
> each other.
Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. In light of this, I do
agree with you.
BubblyBabs
>Yawn. And I suppose the original Star Trek was nothing? I'm saying that
>Star Wars sucks because it has no value as a story. Anyone with a budget
>or creativity can make special effects. Give me something besides eye
>candy, and then I'll rescind my "SW sucks!" credo.
>
>And are you sure that it was the *movie* that caused you to bump into the
>walls?
Quit yawning Christopher, you may dislocate your jaw...
I think it has value as a story... When it was first done it was
original... Now it's not but back then it was...
Babs
BubblyBabs
news:tbydnSeMJdO...@comcast.com...
> >
> > Well, when Star Wars first came out it was very cool... I'm guessing
you
> > are too young to understand which makes me feel ancient...
> >
> Ain't that the truth. Kids today just don't understand how we old timers
> were so impressed with the special effects in Star Wars that we left the
> theatre bumping into the walls. I just saw a special on the making of
Star
> Wars where the special effects people who worked with Lucas admitted that
> they were just as astonished as everyone else by the finished product.
They
> walked out of the theatre asking each other, "How'd that happen?"
>
> And Mark Hamill says that he, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher tormented
> George Lucas ruthlessly about the script, the costumes, the sets,
> everything...they thought for sure they were involved in the biggest movie
> making bomb of all time until they saw it.
>
> Shannon
I was in 8th grade when it came out... Everyone was talking about the
movie... Girls were in love w/ Luke (I was more into Han Solo myself)...
Everyone marveled over the words that slide over the screen and the
spaceship that rumbled onto the screen following the words... And I
remember the big talk about how they had the land rovers skimming over the
sand and how it looked "so real" - of course when you look at all of this
now it's humdrum and doesn't look so real but back then it was
magnificent...
As to the storyline, I remember being surprised when I found out Darth Vadar
was Lukes father and Princess Lia was his sister! The 3rd movie
(technically the 6th movie) was a bit of a letdown for me, it's the one I
like the least...
Babs
Mike Hanson
> "Dark Magic" <slnosp...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:GuadnT_gb90...@comcast.com:
>
> <snip>
> > I found it very interesting that at the end of GoF Viktor Krum had
> > invited Hermione to come visit *him* over the summer holiday, but when
> > OotP opens we see that Hermione has her spent her summer with Ron.
>
> Yes; she chose him and the OotP, over Victor _and_ her parents that summer.
"Sorry, Mum, Dad: I know you'll miss me, but I need to go and prepare
for war. Don't worry, though." :-)
Her "next time, don't wait" comment right after the Yule Ball surely
indicates that Viktor is largely a way of getting Ron's attention. I
don't think she's completely Machiavellian about it, though: I'm sure
she does genuinely like Viktor, but only as a friend. (I'd like to see
him make an appearance again.)
> > Oh, and they *were* alone together in a bedroom, with the door closed,
> > when Harry walked in.
>
> Evidence that Mrs Weasley is still a Harry-Hermione shipper. Otherwise
> she'd probably have Ron and Hermione chaperoned.
I think she could safely have left it to the twins "accidentally" to
interrupt Ickle Ronnikins at an embarrassing moment...
--
Mike.
Julie
I too remember this type of stuff going on... but I was into Luke more. But imagine the surprise of the people who had read the
books Babs... in the book there is no such link. Anniken (spelling forgotten) was killed by Darth Vader, not just killed by the dark
forces within himself. And there was no link between Leigha and Luke.... well not that I recall..
Jules
BubblyBabs
Vadar
> > was Lukes father and Princess Lia was his sister! The 3rd movie
> > (technically the 6th movie) was a bit of a letdown for me, it's the one
I
> > like the least...
> >
> > Babs
>
> I too remember this type of stuff going on... but I was into Luke more.
But imagine the surprise of the people who had read the
> books Babs... in the book there is no such link. Anniken (spelling
forgotten) was killed by Darth Vader, not just killed by the dark
> forces within himself. And there was no link between Leigha and Luke....
well not that I recall..
> Jules
Oh dear, I had no idea there was a book! Was the book out before the movie?
I feel so dumb! Gotta go get the book now, hope it's still available...
Babs
Julie
Sorry but yes the books were out long before the movies. If memory serves correct the 3 movies made when you and I were teens were
books 4,5 &6 and the current movies are 1,2&3 and SS has vowed and declared not to make 7,8&9 into movies, but hey he said that
about the movies currently being made. All he has to do is last another 20yrs and he will have not only you and me going to see them
but the kids of today going and what will then be the current "kids".
Don't feel dumb, I would never have known except my elder brother had read them all. I still haven't (hangs head in shame) I am only
going on what he tells me. Check out amazon, they probably will have the details on file, if not the actual books in stock. I think
they sell pre-loved (aka second-hand) as well.
Jules
Richard Eney
Sirius Kase <siriu...@gmail.com> wrote:
{ about "Star Wars" ]
>I was 18 when it came out. I have never before or after had such a
>total movie experience. all the conversations it launched about movie
>making, hero's journey, the spiritual aspects of the force, adaptation
>of a western to a scifi setting making it much different than any that
>came before, and all the general craziness. Nothing, not even HP was
>ever come close.
Um... I liked the movie, but "adaptation of a western to a scifi setting"
was such a cliche that it was given as a classic example of a really bad
SF story in the advertising for Galaxy Magazine in 1950. The ads proudly
proclaimed "You'll Never See It In Galaxy".
=Tamar
ChaosStorm
<newsgroup_at_fra...@newsgroup.com> wrote:
-snip-
>
>I was in 8th grade when it came out... Everyone was talking about the
>movie... Girls were in love w/ Luke (I was more into Han Solo myself)...
>Everyone marveled over the words that slide over the screen and the
>spaceship that rumbled onto the screen following the words... And I
>remember the big talk about how they had the land rovers skimming over the
>sand and how it looked "so real" - of course when you look at all of this
>now it's humdrum and doesn't look so real but back then it was
>magnificent...
It still looks quite good. I recently watch them all again as I bought
the DVD box - the visual effects still look great. During all three
movies on DVD, only one TIE-fighter in Ep 4 annoyed me for looking too
fake :)
>
>As to the storyline, I remember being surprised when I found out Darth Vadar
>was Lukes father and Princess Lia was his sister!
And the cool part is - Leia never seemed to have realized that Darth
Vader is her father too :)
BubblyBabs
> >I was in 8th grade when it came out... Everyone was talking about the
> >movie... Girls were in love w/ Luke (I was more into Han Solo myself)...
> >Everyone marveled over the words that slide over the screen and the
> >spaceship that rumbled onto the screen following the words... And I
> >remember the big talk about how they had the land rovers skimming over
the
> >sand and how it looked "so real" - of course when you look at all of this
> >now it's humdrum and doesn't look so real but back then it was
> >magnificent...
>
> It still looks quite good. I recently watch them all again as I bought
> the DVD box - the visual effects still look great.
That's because they redid them w/ new technology...
> During all three
> movies on DVD, only one TIE-fighter in Ep 4 annoyed me for looking too
> fake :)
I plan to buy the new DVD's for Xmas so I'll be looking for that!
> >
> >As to the storyline, I remember being surprised when I found out Darth
Vadar
> >was Lukes father and Princess Lia was his sister!
>
> And the cool part is - Leia never seemed to have realized that Darth
> Vader is her father too :)
I think Luke decided to be "manly" and spare her...
What gets me is why she became a Princess and Luke a poor "dirt" farmer...
Is it because the mother was Princess material and the father not?
Babs
ChaosStorm
<newsgroup_at_fra...@newsgroup.com> wrote:
>> -snip-
>> >I was in 8th grade when it came out... Everyone was talking about the
>> >movie... Girls were in love w/ Luke (I was more into Han Solo myself)...
>> >Everyone marveled over the words that slide over the screen and the
>> >spaceship that rumbled onto the screen following the words... And I
>> >remember the big talk about how they had the land rovers skimming over
>the
>> >sand and how it looked "so real" - of course when you look at all of this
>> >now it's humdrum and doesn't look so real but back then it was
>> >magnificent...
>>
>> It still looks quite good. I recently watch them all again as I bought
>> the DVD box - the visual effects still look great.
>
>That's because they redid them w/ new technology...
>
>> During all three
>> movies on DVD, only one TIE-fighter in Ep 4 annoyed me for looking too
>> fake :)
>
>I plan to buy the new DVD's for Xmas so I'll be looking for that!
>
Heh. It's in the scene when they chase the Millenium Falcon when it
escapes the Death Star just after Obi-Wan died. The space around one
TIE-fighter is in a different colour than the rest of space. As if
they were moving a square sprite around the film.
>> >
>> >As to the storyline, I remember being surprised when I found out Darth
>Vadar
>> >was Lukes father and Princess Lia was his sister!
>>
>> And the cool part is - Leia never seemed to have realized that Darth
>> Vader is her father too :)
>
>I think Luke decided to be "manly" and spare her...
>
>What gets me is why she became a Princess and Luke a poor "dirt" farmer...
>Is it because the mother was Princess material and the father not?
>
Her mother was a "Queen" once (bleh queen... she was elected so not
much queen there... more a president with a different title). Or maybe
she was just lucky adopted by some Alderanian nobles? I dunno - the
answers are probably somewhere out there in the Expanded Universe...
but with the exception of Knights of the Old Republic, I don't know
the EU very well.
>Babs
>
>
BubblyBabs
> >> movies on DVD, only one TIE-fighter in Ep 4 annoyed me for looking too
> >> fake :)
> >
> >I plan to buy the new DVD's for Xmas so I'll be looking for that!
> >
>
>
> Heh. It's in the scene when they chase the Millenium Falcon when it
> escapes the Death Star just after Obi-Wan died. The space around one
> TIE-fighter is in a different colour than the rest of space. As if
> they were moving a square sprite around the film.
OH! I know what you are talking about! It's that way in the VHS version as
well... You'd think they would have fixed that in the DVD version...
Hmph...
Babs
BubblyBabs
movie?
> > I feel so dumb! Gotta go get the book now, hope it's still available...
> > Babs
> >
> >
>
> Sorry but yes the books were out long before the movies. If memory serves
correct the 3 movies made when you and I were teens were
> books 4,5 &6 and the current movies are 1,2&3 and SS has vowed and
declared not to make 7,8&9 into movies, but hey he said that
> about the movies currently being made. All he has to do is last another
20yrs and he will have not only you and me going to see them
> but the kids of today going and what will then be the current "kids".
>
> Don't feel dumb, I would never have known except my elder brother had read
them all. I still haven't (hangs head in shame) I am only
> going on what he tells me. Check out amazon, they probably will have the
details on file, if not the actual books in stock. I think
> they sell pre-loved (aka second-hand) as well.
>
> Jules
Thanks for the info Jules!
Babs
Sirius Kase
dic...@radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote:
Maybe some of it was overdone and undeserved, but you must admit,
StarWars was a social phenomenom, not just a movie. And as far as movies
go, it isn't half bad.
stark
> Sorry but yes the books were out long before the movies. If memory
> serves correct the 3 movies made when you and I were teens were books
> 4,5 &6 and the current movies are 1,2&3
Well, that's sorta right. If memory serves me, when 'Star Wars' was
first released, there was no "Episode IV" header on the intro text. It
just would have confused people.
Only after they realized how good it was and started planning on doing
more of them did Lucas decide it was the 4th episode in a larger story.
There are *no* authoritative source books before the movies.
> and SS has vowed and declared
Who is SS? Certainly not Steven Spielberg, who has no control over the
Star Wars series.
> not to make 7,8&9 into movies, but hey he said that about the movies
> currently being made.
You must mean Lucas. And he never said that he'd never do the first
three. He said he wanted to do all nine, but it didn't happen
immediately and so he wasn't sure. Later he decided to do the first
three. Currently, he's stated that _he_ doesn't plan on doing the last
three, but that he hasn't decided whether he'd let someone else make
them.
> All he has to do is last another 20yrs and he will have not only you
> and me going to see them but the kids of today going and what will
> then be the current "kids".
There are also talks of Lucas allowing a TV series to be made of Star
Wars. I don't know how much that might suck, but it seems slightly more
probable (based on whatever rumors I last heard) than work starting on
the last three movies.
> Don't feel dumb, I would never have known except my elder brother had
> read them all.
Perhaps you mean the books by Zahn et al, which were all written *after*
the first three movies came out.
If there were books, why was everyone so shocked about the revelation of
Vader as Luke's father? Why did they have to keep it a secret from
everyone, including the actor who played Vader in the scene where he
tells Luke. The actor actually said a different line ("Obi-wan killed
your father") and James Earl Jones' line ("I am your father") was dubbed
over it in ADR. In theory, only Lucas, the Director (Kirschner?),
Hammill, and Jones knew what the whole story was.
If there was a book, they'd all know. They could have just read the
books. But they didn't. It was a complete surprise, and audiences were
shocked.
> I still haven't (hangs head in shame) I am only going
> on what he tells me. Check out amazon, they probably will have the
> details on file, if not the actual books in stock. I think they sell
> pre-loved (aka second-hand) as well.
You should have checked. There are no books on the Star Wars series
which predate (all) the movies. There is one book which was written
after the 'Hope' but before 'Empire', which Lucas allowed as
repayment for (I think) some uncredited help on the script of 'Hope'.
That book contains a number of plot elements which directly contradict
the rest of the plot in 'Empire' and 'Jedi', including (I think) the
idea that Vader did actually kill Annakin, and Luke's death and
reincarnation via the use of some uber-powerful piece of jewelry.
It's not actually 'Star Wars'. Its more properly seen as "Authorized
Fan Fiction". Its not official. Lucas didn't have any part in the
story. Many of the things that happened aren't possible and don't fit
in with the rest of the story.
To Sum Up:
Movies came first. Unlike 'Lord of the Rings', there were no 'Star
Wars' books before the movies came out. Lucas (unfortunately) wrote the
story, and no one has ever called him an author. It was written
exclusively for the movies.
--
stark
Support C-SCAN:
Condemn Shemione to the Cold Abyss of Nonexistence
Dani
Thanks!
Dani
"Dani" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:w%ifd.32166$l07....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> I just read OotP and all through it I noticed that Harry is so angry all
the
> time. Is he gonna have to learn how to control it (like Luke in Star Wars
> and the dark side of the force)?
>
> And this is probably a real stupid question, but are Hermione and Ron a
> couple or what? LOL
>
> This is coming from a newbie HP fan who just read all the books and is
> awaiting the next movie and book.
>
> :)
>
> Thanks,
> Dani
>
>
Fish Eye no Miko
> I too remember this type of stuff going on... but I was into Luke
> more. But imagine the surprise of the people who had read the
> books Babs... in the book there is no such link. Anniken (spelling
> forgotten)
Anakin.
> was killed by Darth Vader, not just killed by the dark
> forces within himself. And there was no link between Leigha
Leia... ^_^
> and Luke.... well not that I recall..
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"Listen to you two, quarreling like an old married couple."
-Snape, to Remus and Sirius, _Harry Potter and the Prisoner of
Azkaban_.
Fish Eye no Miko
>> And the cool part is - Leia never seemed to have realized that
>> Darth Vader is her father too :)
>
> I think Luke decided to be "manly" and spare her...
How? He tells her Vader's HIS dad and she's HIS sister. He might not have
directly told her Vader's her dad, but she's not stupid...
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"A crew is usually more than two people, you know..."
"Yeah, but I believe in running a tight ship!"
-Zolo and Luffy, /One Piece/.
Markku Uttula
> If there were books, why was everyone so shocked about the
> revelation
> of Vader as Luke's father?
Oh, thanks a million. Now you've so totally spoiled that series for
me. Haven't you heard of spoiler warning or something like that.
Of course, I'm (partly) joking - I can't recall seeing anything but
episodes 2 & 3 of the Star Wars series. I know I've watched the others
as well, but I have nearly no memories of any of them; I might as well
not have watched them :)
--
Markku Uttula
BubblyBabs
"Fish Eye no Miko" <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote in message
news:tcTfd.19641$SW3.13911@fed1read01...
> BubblyBabs wrote:
>
> >> And the cool part is - Leia never seemed to have realized that
> >> Darth Vader is her father too :)
> >
> > I think Luke decided to be "manly" and spare her...
>
> How? He tells her Vader's HIS dad and she's HIS sister. He might not
have
> directly told her Vader's her dad, but she's not stupid...
Hah! That's right! I told you I wasn't partial to that 3rd/6th movie, I
even forgot about that part!
Major bummer, I didn't know Lucas wasn't planning to finish up with the 7th,
8th, and 9th movies...
Babs
Julie
"stark" <at_n...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2uabciF...@uni-berlin.de...
> On 2004-10-27, Julie <gang...@hotkey.net.au> wrote:
>> Sorry but yes the books were out long before the movies. If memory
>> serves correct the 3 movies made when you and I were teens were books
>> 4,5 &6 and the current movies are 1,2&3
>
> Well, that's sorta right. If memory serves me, when 'Star Wars' was
> first released, there was no "Episode IV" header on the intro text. It
> just would have confused people.
>
> Only after they realized how good it was and started planning on doing
> more of them did Lucas decide it was the 4th episode in a larger story.
>
> There are *no* authoritative source books before the movies.
>
>> and SS has vowed and declared
>
> Who is SS? Certainly not Steven Spielberg, who has no control over the
> Star Wars series.
>
>> not to make 7,8&9 into movies, but hey he said that about the movies
>> currently being made.
>
> You must mean Lucas.
Yep that is who I meant - they all have beards don't they - I even get the director of LOTRs mixed up with these guys.
And he never said that he'd never do the first
> three. He said he wanted to do all nine, but it didn't happen
> immediately and so he wasn't sure. Later he decided to do the first
> three. Currently, he's stated that _he_ doesn't plan on doing the last
> three, but that he hasn't decided whether he'd let someone else make
> them.
>
>> All he has to do is last another 20yrs and he will have not only you
>> and me going to see them but the kids of today going and what will
>> then be the current "kids".
>
> There are also talks of Lucas allowing a TV series to be made of Star
> Wars. I don't know how much that might suck, but it seems slightly more
> probable (based on whatever rumors I last heard) than work starting on
> the last three movies.
>
mmm Buck Rogers in the 20th century revisited me thinks...I'd rather movies.
>> Don't feel dumb, I would never have known except my elder brother had
>> read them all.
>
> Perhaps you mean the books by Zahn et al, which were all written *after*
> the first three movies came out.
>
I think I will have to call him one day and ask. I just remember him seeming to know all about the plot of each movie well in
advance and then saying all the parts that were wrong. I also heard on a radio station here a month or two back about the
differences in the books to the movies, which is partly why I was as confident as I was in my reply. I am certainly not sure of the
titles of the book or books concerned.
> If there were books, why was everyone so shocked about the revelation of
> Vader as Luke's father?
Because apparently in the book he is not Lukes father (also noted on local radio). He is in fact not Anikan Skywaker, couldn't give
you his name, because I haven't read the books myself.
Why did they have to keep it a secret from
> everyone, including the actor who played Vader in the scene where he
> tells Luke. The actor actually said a different line ("Obi-wan killed
> your father") and James Earl Jones' line ("I am your father") was dubbed
> over it in ADR. In theory, only Lucas, the Director (Kirschner?),
> Hammill, and Jones knew what the whole story was.
>
Can't answer that other than the answer above.
> If there was a book, they'd all know.
Unless it was changed as I was led to believe the plot was in this case. I'm not defending facts, only what I have been told. You
may say that I was told wrong, and maybe I was... I haven't had the time to go check it all out recently.
They could have just read the
> books. But they didn't. It was a complete surprise, and audiences were
> shocked.
>
>> I still haven't (hangs head in shame) I am only going
>> on what he tells me. Check out amazon, they probably will have the
>> details on file, if not the actual books in stock. I think they sell
>> pre-loved (aka second-hand) as well.
>
> You should have checked. There are no books on the Star Wars series
> which predate (all) the movies. There is one book which was written
> after the 'Hope' but before 'Empire', which Lucas allowed as
> repayment for (I think) some uncredited help on the script of 'Hope'.
Yep you're right I won't argue that point at all. Once I do, I'll get back to you.
>
> That book contains a number of plot elements which directly contradict
> the rest of the plot in 'Empire' and 'Jedi', including (I think) the
> idea that Vader did actually kill Annakin, and Luke's death and
> reincarnation via the use of some uber-powerful piece of jewelry.
>
> It's not actually 'Star Wars'. Its more properly seen as "Authorized
> Fan Fiction". Its not official. Lucas didn't have any part in the
> story. Many of the things that happened aren't possible and don't fit
> in with the rest of the story.
>
> To Sum Up:
>
> Movies came first. Unlike 'Lord of the Rings', there were no 'Star
> Wars' books before the movies came out. Lucas (unfortunately) wrote the
> story, and no one has ever called him an author. It was written
> exclusively for the movies.
>
well I won't argue with someone who seems to know so much about this topic. I'll slink away, do my homework and come back if what I
was informed of was right. In the meantime, please go ahead and be right, coz I am certainly not certain that I am.
you win
Jules
lensman1955
> > Sorry but yes the books were out long before the movies. If memory
> > serves correct the 3 movies made when you and I were teens were books
> > 4,5 &6 and the current movies are 1,2&3
>
> Well, that's sorta right. If memory serves me, when 'Star Wars' was
> first released, there was no "Episode IV" header on the intro text. It
> just would have confused people.
>
> Only after they realized how good it was and started planning on doing
> more of them did Lucas decide it was the 4th episode in a larger story.
You're right about the lack of "Episode IV" when the film was
originally released. But I think Lucas always intended SW to be the
"fourth" film in the series, he just didn't label it such in case it
wasn't popular enough to warrent sequels, much less "prequels."
>
> There are *no* authoritative source books before the movies.
There was a book of the film released before the film. It had the
missing sequences with Luke seeing the attack first through his
hyper-goggles and meeting his friend Biggs who tells him he's been
accepted to the Academy, but intends to desert to join the rebels. The
scene with Jabba the Hutt is also in the book, and there's no
indication that he's anything but a rather shabby crime boss.
There was also a great moment that sadly got excised from the film;
CHEWIE (growls)
HAN: Of course I know where we are. Corinthians never get lost.
CHEWIE (growls)
HAN: That doesn't count. Hendricks wasn't Corinthian, besides I was
drunk.
stark
> "stark" <at_n...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2uabciF...@uni-berlin.de...
>> On 2004-10-27, Julie <gang...@hotkey.net.au> wrote:
>>> not to make 7,8&9 into movies, but hey he said that about the movies
>>> currently being made.
>>
>> You must mean Lucas.
>
> Yep that is who I meant - they all have beards don't they - I even get
> the director of LOTRs mixed up with these guys.
Eek. You get Lucas (good producer, but not so good writer and director)
mixed up with Spielberg (blockbuster director) and Jackson (independant
director). I can sort of understand Lucas and Spielberg... but
Jackson... he's a scruffy kiwi! I'd have thought he'd have stood out a
bit more.
>> There are also talks of Lucas allowing a TV series to be made of Star
>> Wars. I don't know how much that might suck, but it seems slightly more
>> probable (based on whatever rumors I last heard) than work starting on
>> the last three movies.
>
> mmm Buck Rogers in the 20th century revisited me thinks...I'd rather movies.
The rumors suggested Kevin Smith as a director. I don't know if that
would make me much happier about it, but at least it would be someone
who cared.
>> Perhaps you mean the books by Zahn et al, which were all written *after*
>> the first three movies came out.
>
> I think I will have to call him one day and ask. I just remember him
> seeming to know all about the plot of each movie well in advance and
> then saying all the parts that were wrong. I also heard on a radio
> station here a month or two back about the differences in the books to
> the movies, which is partly why I was as confident as I was in my
> reply. I am certainly not sure of the titles of the book or books
> concerned.
There are various things. I've never read the books myself, I'm just
familiar with trivia. Apparently there is a problem with wookiees. The
books portray them as somewhat primitive, while in the movies Chewy
seems to handle a spaceship pretty well. In the movies, Boba Fett
"dies", but he lives on in the books. Not to mention a host of newly
produced inconsistencies from Episodes I and II, which were made after
many of Zahn's books and other literature, but did not follow (at all,
in most cases) the history laid down by the books.
>> If there were books, why was everyone so shocked about the revelation of
>> Vader as Luke's father?
>
> Because apparently in the book he is not Lukes father (also noted on local radio). He is in fact not Anikan Skywaker, couldn't give
> you his name, because I haven't read the books myself.
I haven't been able to find any trace of what you're mentioning here.
You don't have a website or anything me to check out? I'd be interested
in at least figuring out what they were trying to say.
>> If there was a book, they'd all know.
>
> Unless it was changed as I was led to believe the plot was in this
> case. I'm not defending facts, only what I have been told. You may say
> that I was told wrong, and maybe I was... I haven't had the time to go
> check it all out recently.
Well, I don't really care about being Right(tm), I just felt like
sharing some information with people. I'm certainly not an expert here,
but I remember stuff, so I felt I'd share what I remember.
I know for certain that Lucas is the original and only source of the
Star Wars story. He took elements from many different sources and put
them together, but it was him that put them together, and I don't see
him listed as the author of any Star Wars books. Perhaps someone found
some books that seem eerily similar, or perhaps they were talking about
the post-Episode 4 book which doesn't fit in with the story.
>> You should have checked. There are no books on the Star Wars series
>> which predate (all) the movies. There is one book which was written
>> after the 'Hope' but before 'Empire', which Lucas allowed as
>> repayment for (I think) some uncredited help on the script of 'Hope'.
>
> Yep you're right I won't argue that point at all. Once I do, I'll get back to you.
In case you didn't understand, I wasn't intending to sound snippy. When
I re-read it, it didn't sound the way I intended. You should have
checked it out because I think the story is kinda cool. There is this
little-known apocryphal book which was authorized by Lucas despite the
fact that it clashes horribly with the movie storyline. All other books
have to have their plots okay'ed by Lucas, but that one came before he
started doing that.
The result: Its worthless as a piece of Star Wars plot, but its a nifty
look into the plot speculation after the first movie. Rather like
reading through Google's archive of the pre-GoF posts to a.f.h-p.
>> To Sum Up:
>>
>> Movies came first. Unlike 'Lord of the Rings', there were no 'Star
>> Wars' books before the movies came out. Lucas (unfortunately) wrote the
>> story, and no one has ever called him an author. It was written
>> exclusively for the movies.
>
> well I won't argue with someone who seems to know so much about this
> topic. I'll slink away, do my homework and come back if what I was
> informed of was right. In the meantime, please go ahead and be right,
> coz I am certainly not certain that I am.
Well, I won't claim to be completely right, as I'm sure some real SW fan
could clean my clock at arcane SW knowledge, but I'm fairly certain of
the stuff I've said here. There's certainly no reason to slink away,
unless you just like that whole spy-feeling thing. And this is USENET.
No one expects you to do your homework, even when they tell you that you
should. We all just blurt out our opinions and call them fact, here.
Sirius Kase
stark <at_n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Eek. You get Lucas (good producer, but not so good writer and director)
> mixed up with Spielberg (blockbuster director) and Jackson (independant
> director). I can sort of understand Lucas and Spielberg... but
> Jackson... he's a scruffy kiwi! I'd have thought he'd have stood out a
> bit more.
Nope just another smelly looking white guy. Can't stand looking at him,
makes me wonder if he has a serious mental problem. I can't help
imagining BO just looking at him. sorry, but, he looks like the older
brother of the Springfield comic book man. When guys grow long messy
beards, they lose their more attractive features.
BubblyBabs
> beards, they lose their more attractive features.
I agree wholeheartedly... And, for some reason, they think themselves
sexy...
Babs
Fish Eye no Miko
> HAN: Of course I know where we are. Corinthians never get lost.
<Ricardo Montalban>
Rich, Corinthian leather!
</Ricardo Montalban>
Catherine Johnson. Sorry. <well, not really>
--
fenm at cox dot net
"Fear has never been so cute and fuzzy."
-Jennifer Shiman, about her "Hare Raising" Halloween Marathon on
Starz!.
Julie
"Sirius Kase" <siriu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:siriuskase-96AE6...@news1.east.earthlink.net...
> In article <2ucbkmF...@uni-berlin.de>,
> stark <at_n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Eek. You get Lucas (good producer, but not so good writer and director)
>> mixed up with Spielberg (blockbuster director) and Jackson (independant
>> director). I can sort of understand Lucas and Spielberg... but
>> Jackson... he's a scruffy kiwi! I'd have thought he'd have stood out a
>> bit more.
>
> Nope just another smelly looking white guy. Can't stand looking at him,
> makes me wonder if he has a serious mental problem. I can't help
> imagining BO just looking at him. sorry, but, he looks like the older
> brother of the Springfield comic book man. When guys grow long messy
> beards, they lose their more attractive features.
>
> --
I have to agree about the BO look. I truly feel awful that I have this preconception of the man, he might actually smell fresh
showered and a lovely cologne but I just can't help but think....nah he mustn't smell too good up close. I loved what he did with
LOTRs there was a lot of info to cram into 3 movies that should have been 6. I loved the casting, the scenery etc. He didn't destroy
the books for me.
The other guys - GL and SS are an extreme blur, but I sometimes think that SS just did all the big movies. Although LOTR is
independant it was so huge and I enjoyed them so much that I just think of the most famous beard wearing director and that is SS. I
guess if I was more interested in the directors and not the plot, script and acting then I might pay more attention to the director.
Usually I only notice poor direction and usually through other things. Eg things that don't feel right about the character or poorly
acted scenes. That shouldn't happen if the director is on the ball (in theory at least).
Also I don't like beards, anything that hides a mans face.
Jules
Julie
"stark" <at_n...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2ucbkmF...@uni-berlin.de...
> On 2004-10-28, Julie <gang...@hotkey.net.au> wrote:
>> "stark" <at_n...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2uabciF...@uni-berlin.de...
>>> On 2004-10-27, Julie <gang...@hotkey.net.au> wrote:
>>>> not to make 7,8&9 into movies, but hey he said that about the movies
>>>> currently being made.
>>>
There are various things. I've never read the books myself, I'm just
> familiar with trivia. Apparently there is a problem with wookiees. The
> books portray them as somewhat primitive, while in the movies Chewy
> seems to handle a spaceship pretty well. In the movies, Boba Fett
> "dies", but he lives on in the books. Not to mention a host of newly
> produced inconsistencies from Episodes I and II, which were made after
> many of Zahn's books and other literature, but did not follow (at all,
> in most cases) the history laid down by the books.
>
>>> If there were books, why was everyone so shocked about the revelation of
>>> Vader as Luke's father?
>>
>> Because apparently in the book he is not Lukes father (also noted on local radio). He is in fact not Anikan Skywaker, couldn't
>> give
>> you his name, because I haven't read the books myself.
>
> I haven't been able to find any trace of what you're mentioning here.
> You don't have a website or anything me to check out? I'd be interested
> in at least figuring out what they were trying to say.
Unfortunately, it was on 2hd (I think) in Newcastle (New South Wales; australia) if it was so important to me I would have rung them
to verify what I heard but busy lives and priorities have kept me otherwise occupied. I have just sent them an email to check out if
it was indeed their station - will let you know, when I know.
>
>>> If there was a book, they'd all know.
>>
>> Unless it was changed as I was led to believe the plot was in this
>> case. I'm not defending facts, only what I have been told. You may say
>> that I was told wrong, and maybe I was... I haven't had the time to go
>> check it all out recently.
>
> Well, I don't really care about being Right(tm), I just felt like
> sharing some information with people. I'm certainly not an expert here,
> but I remember stuff, so I felt I'd share what I remember.
That is exactly how I felt. Do you have a brain that just remembers trivial bits and pieces that rarely seem to be useful, but seems
to be interesting on the odd occasion? That is my brain.
>
> I know for certain that Lucas is the original and only source of the
> Star Wars story. He took elements from many different sources and put
> them together, but it was him that put them together, and I don't see
> him listed as the author of any Star Wars books. Perhaps someone found
> some books that seem eerily similar, or perhaps they were talking about
> the post-Episode 4 book which doesn't fit in with the story.
I did find him listed on amazon last night when I took your advice and checked it out a bit. I can't any books there that don't
sound as though they weren't written after the movies.
>
>>> You should have checked. There are no books on the Star Wars series
>>> which predate (all) the movies. There is one book which was written
>>> after the 'Hope' but before 'Empire', which Lucas allowed as
>>> repayment for (I think) some uncredited help on the script of 'Hope'.
>>
>> Yep you're right I won't argue that point at all. Once I do, I'll get back to you.
>
> In case you didn't understand, I wasn't intending to sound snippy. When
> I re-read it, it didn't sound the way I intended. You should have
> checked it out because I think the story is kinda cool. There is this
> little-known apocryphal book which was authorized by Lucas despite the
> fact that it clashes horribly with the movie storyline. All other books
> have to have their plots okay'ed by Lucas, but that one came before he
> started doing that.
Yep I read you wrong, so thanks for clarifying. You know all this I don't knowing is getting me in a frenzy, I think I will have to
go and get the books out of the library and just damn well read them! :-))
>
> The result: Its worthless as a piece of Star Wars plot, but its a nifty
> look into the plot speculation after the first movie. Rather like
> reading through Google's archive of the pre-GoF posts to a.f.h-p.
> snip>
> Well, I won't claim to be completely right, as I'm sure some real SW fan
> could clean my clock at arcane SW knowledge, but I'm fairly certain of
> the stuff I've said here. There's certainly no reason to slink away,
> unless you just like that whole spy-feeling thing. And this is USENET.
> No one expects you to do your homework, even when they tell you that you
> should. We all just blurt out our opinions and call them fact, here.
>
LOL...Yeh but I thought you had a point. The spy-feeling thing well, it's not me. No I had a very hard time joining this group in
the beginning so I still tread very carefully (once bitten and all that).
I have to say that I have been enjoying this discussion with you stark. thanks
Jules
lensman1955
> lensman1955 wrote:
>
> > HAN: Of course I know where we are. Corinthians never get lost.
>
> <Ricardo Montalban>
> Rich, Corinthian leather!
> </Ricardo Montalban>
>
> Catherine Johnson. Sorry. <well, not really>
Maybe that's why they cut the bit. There is a quick reference where
Han says he's outrun "the big Corinthian ships"
Troels Forchhammer
"Dani" <no...@nowhere.com> profoundly spake:
>
Spoiler space for OotP:
103 101
73 71
61 59
43 41
31 29
19 17
13 11
7 5 3
> I just read OotP and all through it I noticed that Harry is so angry
> all the time.
It has been commented upon on several occasions, though I don't think
that there is any real consensus with respect to the cause of his
behaviour.
There are, as you has already seen, many who think that Harry's
towering anger is merely a result of his age, teenage trouble.
I'll admit that I don't find that explanation very satisfying. Though I
realise that my own experiences may be neither common nor relevant in
Harry's context, it does feel different from what I have seen in
teeenagers -- both when I was one myself and later.
The suddenness of the onset of Harry's anger could possibly be
explained by the traumatic events at the end of GoF. That would,
however, also usually, in my experience, mean that it was less constant
and didn't last as long. Furthermore anger is not the only constituent
of the teenage emotional set-up, though it is one that adults meet most
often ;-) Anger varies with periods of intense happiness (we see that
a few times, but far too few) and vulnerability (usually expressed as
sorrow or sadness, something we don't see any trace of beyond Dudley's
teasing in the start of OotP). The adolescent male experiences a lot of
very strong emotions, but he goes through the entire register -- Harry
doesn't.
All in all I don't think that Harry's emotional state in OotP can be
just dismissed (or explained) as a result of his adolescence -- the
needle of his emotional 'meter' has been fixed at 'strong anger' and
that, I feel, requires an externalised (to Harry) explanation.
As Harry jumps the locked gate to the park before meeting up with
Dudley in OotP-1 'Dudley Demented', we hear that he has, already then,
begun to have his unsettling dreams about the corridors in the
Department of Mysteries:
"[...] even when he escaped the nightmares about Cedric he
had unsettling dreams about long dark corridors, all
finishing in dead ends and locked doors [...]"
This proves at least that the mental connection with Lord Voldemort has
begun to work already at this point in the story.
Now; how does this connection affect Harry? We all know that it enables
him to see through Voldemort's eyes, as it were, and that it causes
Harry's scar to hurt in certain situations, but what else:
" Harry was thinking himself back. He had been looking into
Umbridge's face ... his scar had hurt ... and he had had that
odd feeling in his stomach ... a strange, leaping feeling ...
a happy feeling ... but of course, he had not recognised it
for what it was, as he had been feeling so miserable himself
...
'Last time, it was because he was pleased,' he said. 'Really
pleased. He thought ... something good was going to happen.
And the night before we came back to Hogwarts ...' he thought
back to the moment when his scar had hurt so badly in his and
Ron's bedroom in Grimmauld Place ... 'he was furious'"
(OotP-18 'Dumbledore's Army')
" Maniacal laughter was ringing in his ears ... he was happier
than he had been in a very long time ... jubilant, ecstatic,
triumphant ... a wonderful, wonderful thing had happened ... "
(OotP-24 'Occlumency')
These are quotations from such situations -- the common thread here is
that Harry is not only observing Voldemort's emotions, actually in the
first quotation from 'Dumbledore's Army' he had no dream or anything,
but rather Harry actually experiences Voldemort's emotions on himself.
/Harry/ feels pleased when Voldemort is pleased. /Harry/ feels furious
when Voldemort is furious, and /Harry/ feels happy when Voldemort is
happy.
Now these are the strong emotions -- those where Harry is intensely
aware, if nothing else then because of the pain in his scar, that these
emotions are not his own, but what if the same happens, at a much lower
intensity (without 'triggering' Harry's scar) most of the time? What
emotions could Voldemort possibly be 'transmitting' (unwittingly) to
Harry? Anger? Certainly. Resentment? Another good offer. Hatred towards
Albus Dumbledore? Bang in the gold, I'd say :-)
It's not that Harry doesn't still trust Dumbledore at the beginning:
"He was so convinced that this letter had to be from
Dumbledore, explaining everything - the Dementors, Mrs
Figg, what the Ministry was up to, how he, Dumbledore,
intended to sort everything out - that for the first
time in his life he was disappointed to see Sirius's
handwriting."
(OotP-2 'A Peck of Owls')
But Harry apparently also feels differently about Dumbledore:
" He cast around for a topic that didn't involve his
headmaster, because the very thought of Dumbledore made
Harry's insides burn with anger again."
(OotP-4 'Number Twelve, Grimmauld Place')
That's more or less the way I'd imagine /Voldemort/ to react to the
thought of Dumbledore.
Now, I am not suggesting that Harry's anger is entirely induced from
Voldemort, because that is not what I think. What happens, as I see it,
is that the general background of 'emotional noise' from the connection
between Harry and Voldemort ressonates with Harry's own anger,
resentment and in particular with his angry feelings towards Dumbledore
(and Harry certainly has a right to be angry at the Headmaster, IMO,
but not quite as intensely), and consequently this background amplifies
the similar feelings in Harry (and probably at the same time dampens
Harry's more positive feelings).
When you strike the string of a guitar, you essentially make a short
pulse of 'white' noise (all audible frequencies contributing roughly
the same), but you only hear the frequencies that ressonate with the
guitar string: all other frequencies quickly die out. The same
principle applies when you bow the violin: the friction between the bow
and the string creates what is essentially white noise (that is why it
can be used to create all the notes), but all we hear is the notes that
ressonate with the string.
> Is he gonna have to learn how to control it
As I see it that was what Occlumency was all about.
Harry might have been able, in the end, to cast off Voldemort's
possession of him, but I wouldn't be too sure that that means that he
can now prevent Voldemort from entering into his mind as he did to
plant the image of Sirius. At the very least I would think that Harry
will need to train to fill himself with the emotions that Voldemort
finds unbearable (which would at the same time provide an excellent
exercise in anger control).
> (like Luke in Star Wars and the dark side of the force)?
I like the Star Wars films, but Rowling has on several occasions
expressed what I see as a discomfort in comparisons of her books to the
Star Wars -- for instance here:
<http://www.jkrowling.co.uk/textonly/rumours_view.cfm?id=3>
Obviously there are similarities -- both are 'fantastic' (as in
'related to fantasy') stories that employ the story device of the
immature hero coming into his predestined position, and at some points
one could suspect Rowling and Lucas of having read the same text books
on fantasy stories (for instance Tolkien's /On Fairy-stories/), but
most of this is, I believe, more appropriately seen in another context:
that both Rowling and Lucas have chosen to build on the same
story-telling tradition.
I know -- you never implied that there was a causal connection, only a
possible similarity ;-)
> And this is probably a real stupid question, but are Hermione and
> Ron a couple or what? LOL
Of course not.
Not by the end of OotP, that is ;-)
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>
Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
lensman1955
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:54:52 -0500, "BubblyBabs"
> <newsgroup_at_fra...@newsgroup.com> wrote:
>
> >> -snip-
> >> >I was in 8th grade when it came out... Everyone was talking about the
> >> >movie... Girls were in love w/ Luke (I was more into Han Solo myself)...
> >> >Everyone marveled over the words that slide over the screen and the
> >> >spaceship that rumbled onto the screen following the words... And I
> >> >remember the big talk about how they had the land rovers skimming over
> the
> >> >sand and how it looked "so real" - of course when you look at all of this
> >> >now it's humdrum and doesn't look so real but back then it was
> >> >magnificent...
> >>
> >> It still looks quite good. I recently watch them all again as I bought
> >> the DVD box - the visual effects still look great.
> >
> >That's because they redid them w/ new technology...
> >
> >> During all three
> >> movies on DVD, only one TIE-fighter in Ep 4 annoyed me for looking too
> >> fake :)
> >
> >I plan to buy the new DVD's for Xmas so I'll be looking for that!
> >
>
>
> Heh. It's in the scene when they chase the Millenium Falcon when it
> escapes the Death Star just after Obi-Wan died. The space around one
> TIE-fighter is in a different colour than the rest of space. As if
> they were moving a square sprite around the film.
That's how they placed the TIE fighter over the shot of space so that
none of the stars would show through the fighter. It's called a
"matte." I taped SW off cable once before breaking down and buying the
original boxed set and ALL the ships had those little windows around
them. The windows even changed size to match the ship's directions.
>
>
eggplant107
your mother, father and beloved godfather were murdered, and a
sadistic teacher made you carve untrue words into your living bleeding
flesh, and everyone was calling you a silly glory seeking little brat
after you had just saved the entire world at the grave risk of your
own life, and you had been bitten by a huge massively evil snake and
been convinced you were seconds from eternal oblivion, and the
ministry wanted to put you in the hell hole they call Azkaban for the
crime of defending your life and that of your cousin, and you were in
agony from the sting of a spider the size of a small elephant, and you
were tied to a tombstone and tortured so hideously you really and
truly wanted to die; well, be that as it may, that's no reason for
getting all grumpy. Harry must be a silly little wimp to make tinny
tiny little things like that bother him. I'm sure in similar
circumstances you would have behaved far far more heroically.
Eggplant
eggplant107
> Um... I liked the movie, but "adaptation
> of a western to a scifi setting" was such
> a cliche that it was given as a classic
> example of a really bad > SF story in the
> advertising for Galaxy Magazine in 1950.
> The ads proudly > proclaimed "You'll
> Never See It In Galaxy".
Good Lord, good God almighty, I've seen that very issue of Galaxy, in
fact I've got that issue of Galaxy magazine. My father was a science
fiction fan and when people asked him why he bothered to keep those
old moldy issues of the magazine Galaxy, we replied "I keep them for
my son", when reminded that he had no son my father replied "someday I
will." I am his son and those Galaxy magazines are my prized
possessions!
Eggplant
Dani
"Troels Forchhammer" <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9591AD97...@212.242.40.196...
Thank you for that very insightful posting. Excellent!
Dani
Christopher Nehren
curious markings:
>
> "Troels Forchhammer" <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns9591AD97...@212.242.40.196...
>
> Thank you for that very insightful posting. Excellent!
I'd email this to you since it's off-topic, but since you've disdained a
working email address I have to do it in public.
Usually, when you quote someone, it's considered good netiquette to at
least include a summary of lines from the person's post, or at the
absolute minimum a self-written summary including an opinion of the
post, like this:
On Some Random Date at 22:22:22 ZUL, Dani wrote an absolutely amazing
post which changed my life (just in time for dinner, too!)[1].
Better would be to include context and respond to each part of the
included context, like I've done with your post.
1: Bonus points to anyone who tells me where in the world I would be to
be eating dinner at a reasonable hour (= 4 PM - 6 PM, IMO) when the time
is at or around 22:22:22 ZUL.
--
I abhor a system designed for the "user", if that word is a coded
pejorative meaning "stupid and unsophisticated". -- Ken Thompson
-
Unix is user friendly. However, it isn't idiot friendly.
Sirius Kase
johnk...@gmail.com (eggplant107) wrote:
As you've pointed out so well, Harry has plenty of reasons to be angry
other than just hormones. Anyone who blames his attitude on his age, is
simply not paying attention.
At the beginning of the book, we know a good bit about Harry, we know
that he has endured plenty of horrible experiences, we know that he
anticipates more trouble, and we know he has no effective support
system. The people he thought he could trust are behaving in a very
frustrating manner. We also know that he is having nightmares that ruin
his nights and those weird door dreams that he doesn't understand. So
he has plenty of reason to be angry already.
Once we learn about his emotional connection to Voldemort, it extremely
understandable that he'd be feeling that way. Voldemort was having a
very angry summer himself. Sure, Harry had reason to be angry at
Dumbledore, but so did Voldemort. He's great plan had flopped. He'd
been humiliated in front of his deatheaters. Voldemort's anger greatly
amplified Harry's own anger. But, neither we nor Harry knew about the
connection until much later, so we and Harry try to understand Harry's
anger with information that we do know. When he thinks that his anger
is caused by Dumbledore, naturally we agree with him. Since we also
know that his anger is excessive, we seek to find an explanation, that
would be the hormone explanation, a convenient but flawed way to explain
anything about teenagers that is hard to explain.
Sirius Kase
One of these days maybe my son will enjoy the many boxes of Byte I have.
So far he's shown no interest. He'd probably find much of what's in the
older copies insanely primitive.
Dani
"Christopher Nehren" <ape...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:20041031223...@prophecy.dyndns.org...
I thank you for your comment and have included my email addy in my sig. As
far as your question about where in the world you'd be eating dinner.. I
have no idea. It's probably an easy answer, too. : (
Dani
Troels Forchhammer
<news:siriuskase-5C4F3...@news1.east.earthlink.net>
Sirius Kase <siriu...@earthlink.net> enriched us with:
>
<snip>
> Once we learn about his emotional connection to Voldemort, it
> extremely understandable that he'd be feeling that way. Voldemort
> was having a very angry summer himself. Sure, Harry had reason to
> be angry at Dumbledore, but so did Voldemort.
[...]
> But, neither we nor Harry knew about the connection until much
> later, so we and Harry try to understand Harry's anger with
> information that we do know. When he thinks that his anger is
> caused by Dumbledore, naturally we agree with him. Since we also
> know that his anger is excessive, we seek to find an explanation,
> that would be the hormone explanation, a convenient but flawed
> way to explain anything about teenagers that is hard to explain.
Well said!
With or without the added complexity of hormonal changes, the pattern
of Harry's anger in OotP does not, IMO, follow the pattern of natural
anger.
He has much reason to be angry, but for his anger to to appear with the
suddenness, intensity and persistence that we see in OotP goes beyond
what can be reasonably expected.
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>
Gravity is a habit that is hard to shake off.
- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Troels Forchhammer
Christopher Nehren <ape...@comcast.net> enriched us with:
>
<snip>
> 1: Bonus points to anyone who tells me where in the world I would
> be to be eating dinner at a reasonable hour (= 4 PM - 6 PM, IMO)
> when the time is at or around 22:22:22 ZUL.
Assuming that "ZUL" is the UTC timezone (I have no idea what it might
otherwise be, though it would normally just be denoted "Z").
Since the UTC is not subject to DST (Daylight Saving Time) and your
dinner hours are, this would have to be a time zone where the time
would be 16:22:22 or 17:22:22 respectively depending on whether DST is
in effect. This would then be the North American CST and CDT (or
HNC/HAC) timezones respectively, which means the native GMT - 6 hours
timezone. This encompasses for instance Saskatchewan in Canada and
Mexico City -- any of those places would then fit the requirements ;-)
Naturally it could also be the basic GMT - 5 hours zone in places where
they do not observe DST . . .
The GMT - 7 hours would be appropriate only while they observe DST, and
thus not on a random date.
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>
"What're quantum mechanics?"
"I don't know. People who repair quantums, I suppose."
- (Terry Pratchett, Eric)
eggplant107
> He has much reason to be angry, but for
> his anger to to appear with the suddenness,
> intensity and persistence that we see in
> OotP goes beyond what can be reasonably
> expected.
Troels I respect you, I really and truly do; but in this particular
instance I think you are profoundly and astronomically wrong! If I had
experienced one tenth of the injustice Harry had I'd be so angry the
cannibal Hannibal Lecter would seem like TV children's host Mr.(Fred)
Rogers.
Eggplant
Christopher Nehren
curious markings:
> In message <news:20041031223...@prophecy.dyndns.org>
> Christopher Nehren <ape...@comcast.net> enriched us with:
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> > 1: Bonus points to anyone who tells me where in the world I would
> > be to be eating dinner at a reasonable hour (= 4 PM - 6 PM, IMO)
> > when the time is at or around 22:22:22 ZUL.
>
> Assuming that "ZUL" is the UTC timezone (I have no idea what it might
> otherwise be, though it would normally just be denoted "Z").
>
> Since the UTC is not subject to DST (Daylight Saving Time) and your
> dinner hours are, this would have to be a time zone where the time
> would be 16:22:22 or 17:22:22 respectively depending on whether DST is
> in effect. This would then be the North American CST and CDT (or
> HNC/HAC) timezones respectively, which means the native GMT - 6 hours
> timezone. This encompasses for instance Saskatchewan in Canada and
> Mexico City -- any of those places would then fit the requirements ;-)
>
> Naturally it could also be the basic GMT - 5 hours zone in places where
> they do not observe DST . . .
>
> The GMT - 7 hours would be appropriate only while they observe DST, and
> thus not on a random date.
Ding ding ding, 40 Sickles to Troels. :) When I posed the question, I
was actually envisioning my own timezone when not in DST. I live in
Pennsylvania, so thus I'm EDT.
> "What're quantum mechanics?"
> "I don't know. People who repair quantums, I suppose."
> - (Terry Pratchett, Eric)
Haha, very nice. =)
dvh
> In article <ad15c942.04103...@posting.google.com>,
> johnk...@gmail.com (eggplant107) wrote:
>
>
>>dic...@radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote
>>
>>
>>>Um... I liked the movie, but "adaptation
>>>of a western to a scifi setting" was such
>>>a cliche that it was given as a classic
>>>example of a really bad > SF story in the
>>>advertising for Galaxy Magazine in 1950.
>>>The ads proudly > proclaimed "You'll
>>>Never See It In Galaxy".
>>
>>Good Lord, good God almighty, I've seen that very issue of Galaxy, in
>>fact I've got that issue of Galaxy magazine. My father was a science
>>fiction fan and when people asked him why he bothered to keep those
>>old moldy issues of the magazine Galaxy, we replied "I keep them for
>>my son", when reminded that he had no son my father replied "someday I
>>will." I am his son and those Galaxy magazines are my prized
>>possessions!
>>
>>Eggplant
>
>
> One of these days maybe my son will enjoy the many boxes of Byte I have.
> So far he's shown no interest. He'd probably find much of what's in the
> older copies insanely primitive.
>
I have some of my Dad's old Mad Magazines, which are as good now as they
were then.
Meghan Noecker
<Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:
>In message <w%ifd.32166$l07....@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
>"Dani" <no...@nowhere.com> profoundly spake:
>>
>
>Spoiler space for OotP:
>
> 103 101
> 73 71
> 61 59
> 43 41
> 31 29
> 19 17
> 13 11
> 7 5 3
>
>There are, as you has already seen, many who think that Harry's
>towering anger is merely a result of his age, teenage trouble.
>
>I'll admit that I don't find that explanation very satisfying. Though I
>realise that my own experiences may be neither common nor relevant in
>Harry's context, it does feel different from what I have seen in
>teeenagers -- both when I was one myself and later.
>
>
>All in all I don't think that Harry's emotional state in OotP can be
>just dismissed (or explained) as a result of his adolescence -- the
>needle of his emotional 'meter' has been fixed at 'strong anger' and
>that, I feel, requires an externalised (to Harry) explanation.
>
I think it is a combination of adolescence and stress.
I see an example of this on a regular basis. My nephew just turned 18.
He started living with us (my parents and myself) about a year and a
half ago. Before that, he would come on weekends and during the
summer.
He has a very stressful family situation. His mother and father hate
each other and do the best to drive each other crazy. Custody has gone
back and forth. They've been to court several times. It has been ugly.
His father married a lady who has a son a year older than my nephew.
It's a classic cinderall story. That boy is perfect and always right.
He got to stay up til 1am while my night owl nephew was sent to bed at
9pm (and still wide awake at 1am to hear them all say goodnight). For
his 16th birthday, the stepbrother was given a car. My nephew got a
watch on his 16th birthday. After the custody change a year and a half
ago, my nephew has been to his father's home only once - Christmas of
last year, and only went because my brother threatened to call the
police if he refused.
His mother has also married - a very nice gentleman, and they have two
daughters. There, the situation is more loving, but the youngest
daughter is out of control (ADD), and my nephew felt she was getting
away with everything while he was getting punished. He was also
expected to watch videos and play games that were suitable for the
youngest girl while he is 7 years older.
In both situations, he has had major outbursts. His mother insists
that he swears at her in his fits or rage. He has broken things and
put holes in the walls. My parents have had to drive 2 hours to go get
him in the middle of the night because things get out of control.
Yet, at our house, this kid is normal. Easy going, mellow, and rarely
ever gets upset. The worst he has done has yelled that something was
unfair and gone to his room to sulk. He simply doesn't behave the same
here.
Recently, his sister (only 4 years younger than him) came for the
weekend. We don't usually have both at the same time. I thought my
nephew was behaving worse than I had ever seen him. He seemed to be
pushing her buttons to annoy her. And I could see that she was
annoying him on purpose too. Getting into his space. tapping him in
the head, then being insulted when he told her to stop. That kind of
thing. Typical sibling arguing, but it seemed to bring out the worst
in both of them. Then, when she went home, she told her parents that
he was the *best* she had ever seen him. That he was so much better at
our house than at theirs.
I know this is really longwinded, but the fact is that stress can
really change a person's behavior. And a really mellow, easy going kid
can be a very angry, rageful person in a very stressful situation.
Back when my nephew was only coming on weekends, he had a very obvious
pattern. He would be grumpy and irritated when we picked him up. He
would vent the whole way home (about an hour). Then he would fall
asleep by 8 or 9pm, totally mentally exhausted. Sleep in late on
Saturday, then be his normal happy self all Saturday and Sunday
morning. Then grumpy again as he prepared to go back home.
When he went to his mother;s house, straight from his father's house,
he was worse. And he was horrible on Friday nights. His sisters missed
him anbd would hang around him right when he needed to de-stress. His
mother leared that he was better if they left him alone for awhile to
relax.
Harry Potter is a mellow kid. He puts up with a lot of crap from the
Dursley's and lets it slide off him. It's only when something really
gets him upset that he loses control, and he isn't that bad. He mostly
yells and gets angry, but he doesn't really do much damage.
He is entirely believable to me. Stress and the inexperience of how to
deal with it - that would make anybody angry and difficult.
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Meghan Noecker
>
>I thank you for your comment and have included my email addy in my sig. As
>far as your question about where in the world you'd be eating dinner.. I
>have no idea. It's probably an easy answer, too. : (
>
>Dani
>
>
Your sig isn't posting. Or it just has your first name.
Christopher Nehren
curious markings:
> Your sig isn't posting. Or it just has your first name.
>
>
> Meghan & the Zoo Crew
> Equine and Pet Photography
> http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
And yours doesn't have the standard "\n-- \n".
tuxgeo
wrote:
Han himself was a Corellian, not a Corinthian. (Right?)
--
awat...@teleport.com "tuxgeo" of the Jungle -- /the moonbeam knave/
o_!_o -- hoohah. Just hoohah.
/O\ "Dare to be Dakedo." (However, . . .)
stark
> Ding ding ding, 40 Sickles to Troels. :) When I posed the question, I
> was actually envisioning my own timezone when not in DST. I live in
> Pennsylvania, so thus I'm EDT.
I also knew this, but since I live outside DC, it wasn't terribly hard.
I've seen my UTC timestamps enough that I recognized the time I normally
get home.
What surprised me was the fact that you actually eat near 5pm. I didn't
think anyone on the right coast did that. Seems 8pm is pretty standard
as a supper time around here.
Troels Forchhammer
johnk...@gmail.com (eggplant107) enriched us with:
> Troels Forchhammer wrote
>
>> He has much reason to be angry, but for
>> his anger to to appear with the suddenness, intensity and
>> persistence that we see in OotP goes beyond what can be
>> reasonably expected.
>
> Troels I respect you, I really and truly do;
Much as we have disagreed, and perhaps precisely because of that, I can
only say that it is reciprocated ;-)
> but in this particular instance I think you are profoundly and
> astronomically wrong! If I had experienced one tenth of the injustice
> Harry had I'd be so angry the cannibal Hannibal Lecter would seem
> like TV children's host Mr.(Fred) Rogers.
I can't very well argue against that. In my experience (which is
obviously limited to Danish teenagers) teenagers don't act that way.
Their emotions are explosive and often very intensive, but they tend
not to be as stable as Harry's anger in OotP.
I can't help but feel that given Harry's past emotional history (as it
has been disclosed to us), the level we see in OotP cannot be
completely natural.
I am not saying it is something coming completely from outside Harry --
that would certainly be to close one's eyes to all the points you bring
up, but that doesn't mean that there is no outside influence at all.
If anyone were to suggest that Harry didn't have anything to do with
that anger; that it was all forced upon him by his connection with
Voldemort, I would protest -- strongly. But I cannot go all the way in
the other direction either: that we are seeing Harry's completely
natural personality reacting to his situation.
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
Sirius Kase
Troels Forchhammer <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:
> > Troels I respect you, I really and truly do;
>
> Much as we have disagreed, and perhaps precisely because of that, I can
> only say that it is reciprocated ;-)
>
> > but in this particular instance I think you are profoundly and
> > astronomically wrong! If I had experienced one tenth of the injustice
> > Harry had I'd be so angry the cannibal Hannibal Lecter would seem
> > like TV children's host Mr.(Fred) Rogers.
>
> I can't very well argue against that. In my experience (which is
> obviously limited to Danish teenagers) teenagers don't act that way.
> Their emotions are explosive and often very intensive, but they tend
> not to be as stable as Harry's anger in OotP.
>
> I can't help but feel that given Harry's past emotional history (as it
> has been disclosed to us), the level we see in OotP cannot be
> completely natural.
At what point did you decide that Harry was much angrier than any teen
could naturally be, given that he did have quite a few things to be
angry about? Was it immediately into the story or only after you had
read for awhile and realized that he just wasn't going to be happy about
anything, even when maybe he should have?
Harry has never been portrayed as a typical teen. He never has dealt
with his emotions properly, in the previous 4 books, he usually stuffs
them inside himself, but occassionally he yells about it. So I would
expect that when he is angry, he wouldn't handle it as well as your
typical Danish teen.
In my case, it wasn't until I realized he was sharing emotions with
Voldemort. Once I knew that, it explained a lot, but until that point,
I didn't consider that his anger might have an unnatural cause, that it
was "normal" rage at the extreme end of the range.
gjw
<Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:
>In message <news:ad15c942.0411...@posting.google.com>
>johnk...@gmail.com (eggplant107) enriched us with:
>
>> Troels Forchhammer wrote
>>
>>> He has much reason to be angry, but for
>>> his anger to to appear with the suddenness, intensity and
>>> persistence that we see in OotP goes beyond what can be
>>> reasonably expected.
>>
>> Troels I respect you, I really and truly do;
>
>Much as we have disagreed, and perhaps precisely because of that, I can
>only say that it is reciprocated ;-)
>
>> but in this particular instance I think you are profoundly and
>> astronomically wrong! If I had experienced one tenth of the injustice
>> Harry had I'd be so angry the cannibal Hannibal Lecter would seem
>> like TV children's host Mr.(Fred) Rogers.
>
>I can't very well argue against that.
Actually, I can. Yes, in the real world, anyone who went through what
Harry went through would probably be a babbling psychotic by now. But
this isn't the real world, it's a work of fiction. And in that work of
fiction, Harry has seemed virtually immune to the natural
repercussions of his maltreatment. In book one, the poor orphan has
been kept in a closet, treated like a slave, shown no love at all, and
bullied and insulted by the entire family - yet once Hagrid recruits
him into Hogwarts he turns out to be a perfectly normal, well-rounded
kid (less neurotic than his friends Ron and Hermione, who had normal
upbringings). Even after experiencing an attack on his life by
Voldemort, and attack by an army of giant spiders and an attack by a
giant snake, he's _still_ a perfectly normal, well-rounded kid.
As such, since JKR had created a universe in which horrible
experiences do not normally warp or corrupt Harry, it seems somewhat
puzzling that in book five she suddenly chose to make him react in a
realistic way to such things.
It's hard to say whether she just decided to (be inconsistent and)
introduce a new level of realism into the books, due to Harry's
becoming a teenager, or whether she meant his emotional roller coaster
to be interpreted as the result of outside influences (e.g.
Voldemort's mental intrusion).
lensman1955
> On 29 Oct 2004 03:27:41 -0700, lensm...@hotmail.com (lensman1955)
> wrote:
>
> > "Fish Eye no Miko" <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote in message news:<Ysbgd.22396$SW3.8696@fed1read01>...
> > > lensman1955 wrote:
> > >
> > > > HAN: Of course I know where we are. Corinthians never get lost.
> > >
> > > <Ricardo Montalban>
> > > Rich, Corinthian leather!
> > > </Ricardo Montalban>
> > >
> > > Catherine Johnson. Sorry. <well, not really>
> >
> > Maybe that's why they cut the bit. There is a quick reference where
> > Han says he's outrun "the big Corinthian ships"
>
> Han himself was a Corellian, not a Corinthian. (Right?)
Damn! I knew I'd get it wrong! It's been years since I actually sat
down to watch the films and even longer since I read the book. Of
course he was a Corellian. So, take my posts and sub "Corellian" for
"Corinthian" and you got it.
eggplant107
> the poor orphan has been kept in a closet,
> treated like a slave, shown no love at all,
> and bullied and insulted by the entire family
> yet once Hagrid recruits him into Hogwarts
> he turns out to be a perfectly normal,
> well-rounded kid
I can't say that's typical but it's not unprecedented either. Many
(not most but many) people who have had perfectly dreadful childhoods
have nevertheless turned into quite decent and productive adults. I
suppose some people are just naturally tough.
> JKR had created a universe in which
> horrible experiences do not normally
> warp or corrupt Harry
Harry is tough but he's not invulnerable, by book 3 all the misfortune
in his life had started to ware him down, if you remember the book did
not have a particularly happy ending, Harry was in a rather dark mood
at the end. Events in the next 2 books were even more tragic.
> whether she meant his emotional roller
> coaster to be interpreted as the result
> of outside influences (e.g.
> Voldemort's mental intrusion
I think the chance of that happening is virtually zero for the simple
reason that it just wouldn't be very interesting if it turned out that
Harry's emotional devastation wasn't 100% genuine. And I don't
understand why people keep talking about teenage angst, after all the
horror Harry has endured you wouldn't need to be a teenager to be
angry.
Eggplant
lensman1955
I think the thing is that Harry's been mistreated all his life by
people he realizes don't love him. Then he's had attempts on his life
by the one person who really, REALLY hates him and wants him dead.
He's handled these, but now he feels he's being abused (or at least
neglected) by the people who he's come to trust and who he felt loved
him. And there was no way around it. Any attempt to explain it to
Harry would most likely have gone straight to Tom Riddle thus giving
him the very edge they're trying to deny him.
Sirius Kase
stark <at_n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 2004-11-01, Christopher Nehren <ape...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Ding ding ding, 40 Sickles to Troels. :) When I posed the question, I
> > was actually envisioning my own timezone when not in DST. I live in
> > Pennsylvania, so thus I'm EDT.
>
> I also knew this, but since I live outside DC, it wasn't terribly hard.
> I've seen my UTC timestamps enough that I recognized the time I normally
> get home.
>
> What surprised me was the fact that you actually eat near 5pm. I didn't
> think anyone on the right coast did that. Seems 8pm is pretty standard
> as a supper time around here.
That's what got me off. Most Americans aren't home from work that
early, so I figured it must be somewhere else.
Meghan Noecker
wrote:
>On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 04:18:05 EST, Meghan Noecker scribbled these
>curious markings:
>> Your sig isn't posting. Or it just has your first name.
>>
>>
>> Meghan & the Zoo Crew
>> Equine and Pet Photography
>> http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
>
>And yours doesn't have the standard "\n-- \n".
>
A very minor issue, and not something I have seen a complaint about.
It doesn't cause other people's posts below it to disappear they don't
quote properly. And I don't hide my real name or email address.
I don't top post, and I quote properly.
If somebody does have a complaint that my sig does not have a dash in
front of it, then I will fix it.
As it is, I was pointing at that Dani claimed that his/her email
address was included in the sig, yet I see nothing more than the name.
No address or anything else that appears to be a sig. I would assume
that Dani simply didn't realize his/her sig wasn't posting.
Meghan Noecker
wrote:
>I think the thing is that Harry's been mistreated all his life by
>people he realizes don't love him. Then he's had attempts on his life
>by the one person who really, REALLY hates him and wants him dead.
>He's handled these, but now he feels he's being abused (or at least
>neglected) by the people who he's come to trust and who he felt loved
>him. And there was no way around it. Any attempt to explain it to
>Harry would most likely have gone straight to Tom Riddle thus giving
>him the very edge they're trying to deny him.
Exactly, these are the people he loves and trusts. It is much easier
to accept hatred and mistreatment from strangers or people you don't
like. But when somebody close to you ignores you or hurts you, then it
really is much harder to take.
Fish Eye no Miko
> tuxgeo <awat...@teleport.com> wrote:
>> lensm...@hotmail.com (lensman1955) wrote:
>>> "Fish Eye no Miko" <fis...@deadmoon.circus> wrote:
>>>> lensman1955 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> HAN: Of course I know where we are. Corinthians never get lost.
>>>>
>>>> <Ricardo Montalban>
>>>> Rich, Corinthian leather!
>>>> </Ricardo Montalban>
>>>> Catherine Johnson. Sorry. <well, not really>
>>>
>>> Maybe that's why they cut the bit. There is a quick reference
>>> where
>>> Han says he's outrun "the big Corinthian ships"
>>
>> Han himself was a Corellian, not a Corinthian. (Right?)
>
> Damn! I knew I'd get it wrong! It's been years since I actually sat
> down to watch the films and even longer since I read the book. Of
> course he was a Corellian. So, take my posts and sub "Corellian" for
> "Corinthian" and you got it.
But then the joke doesn't work...
Catherine Johnson. Aw, well.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"'So bizarre, human behavior,' Gil says, conveniently forgetting that he
may actually be human himself."
-Sobell, regarding _C.S.I._'s Gil Grissom, on Television Without Pity.
gjw
wrote:
>g...@example.com (gjw) wrote in message news:<4190899f...@news.west.earthlink.net>...
<snip>
>> It's hard to say whether she just decided to (be inconsistent and)
>> introduce a new level of realism into the books, due to Harry's
>> becoming a teenager, or whether she meant his emotional roller coaster
>> to be interpreted as the result of outside influences (e.g.
>> Voldemort's mental intrusion).
>
>I think the thing is that Harry's been mistreated all his life by
>people he realizes don't love him. Then he's had attempts on his life
>by the one person who really, REALLY hates him and wants him dead.
>He's handled these, but now he feels he's being abused (or at least
>neglected) by the people who he's come to trust and who he felt loved
>him. And there was no way around it. Any attempt to explain it to
>Harry would most likely have gone straight to Tom Riddle thus giving
>him the very edge they're trying to deny him.
That's an interesting theory. I'm not sure it's what JKR intended, but
I rather like it...
Julie
"dvh" <henn...@swbell.net> wrote in message news:3bChd.14736$Al3....@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
I have Supergirl comics - much rarer than superboy/man. I still think she's pretty cool.
I still pretend I can fly when I'm swimming underwater. It's only mandetory that you grow older not grow up.
Jules
Julie
"Meghan Noecker" <frie...@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote in message news:cm7j06$k2c$0$216.145...@ccom.net...
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:02:23 +0000 (UTC), Troels Forchhammer
> <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:
>
>>In message <w%ifd.32166$l07....@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
>>"Dani" <no...@nowhere.com> profoundly spake:
>>>
>>
>>Spoiler space for OotP:
>>
>> 103 101
>> 73 71
>> 61 59
>> 43 41
>> 31 29
>> 19 17
>> 13 11
>> 7 5 3
> In both situations, he has had major outbursts. His mother insists
> that he swears at her in his fits or rage. He has broken things and
> put holes in the walls. My parents have had to drive 2 hours to go get
> him in the middle of the night because things get out of control.
>
> Yet, at our house, this kid is normal. Easy going, mellow, and rarely
> ever gets upset. The worst he has done has yelled that something was
> unfair and gone to his room to sulk. He simply doesn't behave the same
> here.
Stable caring environment vs unstable environment where perhaps the caring is there, just not visible to your nephew. Outbursts
would be natural because he would actually get some attention. Even at 18 we all need attention at some time and to *feel* as though
we are loved. Everyone has different ways of needed love shown to them (read Five Love Languages - I think it is called. I am
currently in the middle of the Five Love Languages of Children). Your poor nephew, he must feel like he's been shunted from pillar
to post.
Good for you and your parents for loving the young man enough to take him in and give him what he needs to be the good person that
he is inside.
>
<snip:>
> Harry Potter is a mellow kid. He puts up with a lot of crap from the
> Dursley's and lets it slide off him. It's only when something really
> gets him upset that he loses control, and he isn't that bad. He mostly
> yells and gets angry, but he doesn't really do much damage.
>
> He is entirely believable to me. Stress and the inexperience of how to
> deal with it - that would make anybody angry and difficult.
>
>
> Meghan & the Zoo Crew
> Equine and Pet Photography
> http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
I agree, I reckon Harry does very well for what he has to put up with.
Jules