CHOW: ACoK -Tyrion IV, or "One...two...three"
Jack
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Tyrion IV - ACoK - "One...two...three"
The chapter opens with Tyrion meeting with Grand Maester Pycelle. They
chitchat briefly about trivialities before Tyrion asks Pycelle to send
the serving girl away and they get down to business. Tyrion has two
letters for Doran Martell (well, one letter, two copies) and wants them
sent immediately. [1]
Pycelle moves exceptionally slowly, but finally gets the messages off.
While he's doing that Tyrion has a chance to look over his various
medicines and potions (including one which seems of particular interest
and that he takes from the shelf and slips up his sleeve...it's not
said what that 'medication' is). [2]
Pycelle comes back and trys to get some information about the letters
out of Tyrion. Asking what is in there, and being rebuffed; asking
about the council and if they should know, and being rebuffed again;
asking if the King should know, and being told that the King is 13 and
that Tyrion is the Hand; asking if the Queen Regent should be told, and
being told that she has many burdens already and that this is not one
that need necessarily concern her. [3]
From there, after telling Pycelle to tell him and ONLY him about Doran's
reply, Tyrion heads to see Bronn at his assessment of the men-at-arms
and knights. They walk and talk about petitioners there to see the
Hand. Most of them Tyrion tells Bronn to put off in one way or another,
but they do offer insight into the state of the city: Lady Tanda is
trying to pawn her daughter Lollys off on Tyrion, a Braavosi money
lender demanding payment that Tyrion has Bronn send to Littlefinger,
a Riverlands lord who wants recompense for the damage Tywin did to his
land and to profess his loyalty, various food vendors there to ask for
protection (a baker got baked in his own oven), Ser Alliser Thorne is
there w/the black zombie-hand to ask for help (Tyrion makes him rot
in a room where the rushes haven't been changed in a year)...
While walking Cersei happens upon them. She says she's going to inspect
the spitfires and scorpions, saying that she doesn't want people to
think that everyone's as indifferent to the war as Tyrion seems to be
[4]. They argue briefly about Renly and his pace and immediate
intentions (Cersei thinks he's coming quickly to King's Landing and
will easily take it w/out Tywin's army there to stop him and Tyrion
thinks he's biding his time waiting for events up north to play out
more). Cersei then demands that Tyrion "make [Tywin] bring his army
to King's Landing"...Tyrion points out that he's unlikely to ever be
able to make Tywin do /anything/. She also asks when he's going to
free Jaime (saying he's worth 100 of Tyrion, to which Tyrion makes a
jape about them not having 100 of him to trade).
Tyrion heads off to his chambers and Pod bumbles through the process
of telling him that Littlefinger is inside waiting for him. He heads
in and Littlefinger is watching Joff trying to kill hares w/his new
crossbow...and failing. They send Pod away and begin a little verbal
fencing. Tyrion comments on his clothing, the colors of his doublet
(not of his house), the fine knife he's carrying (Valyrian steel and
dragonbone...hmm...where have we seen *that* before?!). Littlefinger
offers him the knife "It's yours, if you would like it" and Tyrion
tells him "Mine? No. I think not. Never mine." [5]
Tyrion thinks about what he's learned of Lord Petyr Baelish:
Jon Arryn had given him a minor post in customs 10 years ago, where
he distinguished himself by bringing in 3 times as much as anyone
else. Since Robert spent so much the Hand needed men like Petyr
and his rise was very swift. Within 3 years of arriving at court
Littlefinger was master of coin and a member of the small council.
He increased the revenue 10 times, but the debt was also massive.
"A master juggler was Petyr Baelish." He didn't just pay debts,
instead he invested the gold and paid debts in promises...in the
process he moved his own men into important posts in the government
(various duty and collection-related posts were all his men). Noone
questioned the posts...because no one saw Littlefinger as a threat...
[6]
They go on to discuss what Tyrion wants of Littlefinger...he wants
him to tell Lysa Arryn that he will give her her husband's real
killer, her son the Wardenship of the east and help her with her
new Vale Clansmen problem in exchange for her marshalling the power
of the Vale against Renly and Stannis. Petyr asks what's in it for
him and Tyrion simply says "Harrenhal". Petyr says that it's cursed
and Tyrion says to raze it and build a new castle...he intends to
make Littlefinger the liege lord of the Trident. [7] Petyr tries
briefly to demure a bit, but fairly quickly agrees.
He then moves on up to his bedroom where Varys awaits. They quickly
begin to verbally joust as well. Varys hints that he knows what it
is that Tyrion is doing (sending Tommen to Dorne and Mycella to the
Vale) and hinting that keeping THEM safe and doing in Joff would give
them a nice "tractable" king. Varys suggests that Cersei will have
something to say about Tyrion's plan. [8]
Punti per la Discussione:
1 & 2) The interesting thing here is that we don't get to see what
Tyrion REALLY said in these letters and we don't see (though it is
sort of implied by the time Pycelle takes) Pycelle take a sneak
peek at the letters...though all of this stuff is implied by Tyrion's
counting (/one/, /two/, /three/) throughout the chapter.
3) Also setting up what happens later...Pycelle REALLY can't take a
hint, can he? I mean...Tyrion practically laid out his plan in this
conversation and Pycelle STILL fell for it. How does someone so
stupid end up as Grand Maester?
4) He *does* seem to be indifferent to the war, doesn't he? He's
not really making any plans at this point to do anything to protect
the city. He really doesn't take Renly seriously *at all* does he?
Does that make him a good judge of character or just lucky?
5) Well...they know they know...but why did Lord Baelish DO it?
I know that's what Tyrion's thinking...and we STILL get no insight
here as to why he did it...what was the point of this, then?
6) Good call...no one seeing him as a threat...really. At least
Tyrion sees him for what he is. Of course if he really saw him
clearly he'd realize that it's a waste of time to include him in
this little plan of his...he's obviously (from the reader's PoV)
not a Cersei-pawn.
7) Big blunder here...including him at all was a minor blunder,
but promising him Harrenhal and the liege lordship of the Trident
played right into Littlefinger's hands. Of course it's pretty
much impossible not to, as near as I can tell.
8) Seems moderately shocking that Varys didn't figure out Tyrion's
plan here. How Tyrion managed to write those letters without any
of Varys' little birds seeing seems...pretty impressive. I have to
think that Tyrion's one of the few people in the entire series to
have successfully put one over on Varys.
Sex-o-meter
Zippo. All intrigue: 0/5 exposed nipples.
Gore-o-meter
Joff managed to kill a hare...other than that...nothing. 0/5 gobbets
of flesh.
Laff-o-meter
Tyrion had a couple comments here (as always) that were amusing,
but no huge belly laughs or anything. Perhaps 1/5 whoopie cushions.
--
Jack V
Elio M. Garcia Jr.
said on Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:54:02 -0500...
> 4) He *does* seem to be indifferent to the war, doesn't he? He's
> not really making any plans at this point to do anything to protect
> the city. He really doesn't take Renly seriously *at all* does he?
> Does that make him a good judge of character or just lucky?
There isn't a lot he _could_ do, I think. I get a sense that he's
masking anxiety over it, by (for one thing) making up his father's
alleged plan of action should Renly come closer to assuage Cersei's
fears.
There's just not a whole lot he could do if a land-based siege
backed by an army 80,000+ strong set in. He did see some things to deal
with a naval assault, though, and so he went about those with alacrity.
>
> 5) Well...they know they know...but why did Lord Baelish DO it?
> I know that's what Tyrion's thinking...and we STILL get no insight
> here as to why he did it...what was the point of this, then?
Mainly, I think, to show that even if Tyrion knows, and even if
Baelish more or less smirks about it, Littlefinger is still fairly safe.
He's "armored himself in gold."
--
[Upon a Dzurlord learning of the murder of a critic by a painter]
"And it was well done, too. I'd have done the same, only-"
"Yes?"
"I don't paint." (Steven Brust, _The Phoenix Guards_)
Elio M. García, Jr. (el...@tele2.se) -- www.westeros.org
Eoghan Scully
> Tyrion IV - ACoK - "One...two...three"
> 3) Also setting up what happens later...Pycelle REALLY can't take a
> hint, can he? I mean...Tyrion practically laid out his plan in this
> conversation and Pycelle STILL fell for it. How does someone so
> stupid end up as Grand Maester?
By toadying up to those in charge. Lackeyability making up for a lack of
ability.
> 4) He *does* seem to be indifferent to the war, doesn't he? He's
> not really making any plans at this point to do anything to protect
> the city. He really doesn't take Renly seriously *at all* does he?
> Does that make him a good judge of character or just lucky?
I think that he is doing what he can. I imagine him trying to cement the
loyalty of the guards that Cersei hired to make sure they won't run away
rather than hiring a whole bunch more. That would probably look like
doing nothing to Cersei.
Tyrion does seem to read Renly right. Probably based on judging his
character plus what little information he can get from Tywin's scouts or
random travellers in that part of the country.
I wonder why Renly moved so slowly? Waiting for things to sort
themselves out in the north just meant that he would face a united,
undistracted enemy. A swift march on KL OTOH would put most of Westeros
in Renly's hands and probably bring the Vale and Dorne in on his side as
the presumptive victor.
> 5) Well...they know they know...but why did Lord Baelish DO it?
> I know that's what Tyrion's thinking...and we STILL get no insight
> here as to why he did it...what was the point of this, then?
Just to show that Petyr knows that Tyrion knows I suppose. Background to
make it clear they are both playing a complex game.
> 7) Big blunder here...including him at all was a minor blunder,
> but promising him Harrenhal and the liege lordship of the Trident
> played right into Littlefinger's hands. Of course it's pretty
> much impossible not to, as near as I can tell.
Why is it a blunder? Tyrion has no intention of following through with
the plan but it makes Petyr think that he can work with Tyrion and maybe
even that he can get the best of any bargain with Tyrion. And if he does
decide to follow though after all then at least he gets Littlefinger out
of KL, probably permanently since if he takes Harrenhal he will have to
spend all his time subduing the riverlords.
vynh
> I know that's what Tyrion's thinking...and we STILL get no insight
> here as to why he did it...what was the point of this, then?
As oppose to what? Tell Ned the truth, that the dagger belong to his best
friend, the King? It was the first time he meet Ned. The new Lord Hand might
just silence him, before going against the King or execute him as traitor
for such blasphemy or he might just not believe him and send for a maester
treat his _illness_. He had to lie. Later he might choose to blackmail the
real culprit...
Jack
> Jack <vid...@gmail.com> wrote...
>
>>Tyrion IV - ACoK - "One...two...three"
>
> <snip summary>
>
>
>>3) Also setting up what happens later...Pycelle REALLY can't take a
>>hint, can he? I mean...Tyrion practically laid out his plan in this
>>conversation and Pycelle STILL fell for it. How does someone so
>>stupid end up as Grand Maester?
>
> By toadying up to those in charge. Lackeyability making up for a lack of
> ability.
Yeah...but he still had to be elected in Oldtown. You'd think that the
Maesters wouldn't want someone like him as their Grand Maester..
<snip a few>
>>7) Big blunder here...including him at all was a minor blunder,
>>but promising him Harrenhal and the liege lordship of the Trident
>>played right into Littlefinger's hands. Of course it's pretty
>>much impossible not to, as near as I can tell.
>
> Why is it a blunder? Tyrion has no intention of following through with
> the plan but it makes Petyr think that he can work with Tyrion and maybe
> even that he can get the best of any bargain with Tyrion. And if he does
> decide to follow though after all then at least he gets Littlefinger out
> of KL, probably permanently since if he takes Harrenhal he will have to
> spend all his time subduing the riverlords.
Because that's not why Littlefinger wants Harrenhal. Giving him
Harrenhal makes him a great lord even if he never takes possession of
it...he wants the associated prestige, not titular control over the
Riverlands, persay (though I expect he wants that as well...but not so
much as he wants to be powerful). I'm still not 100% clear on exactly
what game he's playing, but it seems clear that he can parley even a
crap reward like Harrenhal (which DOES seem to be cursed) into a usable
piece in the game and even greater rewards (the Vale...Sansa...).
--
Jack V
Jack
Right...because any of that would have happened. Why did he say it was
TYRION'S dagger? Even if he DID know it was the King's, and I doubt he
did, why not just say nothing? Why start something with Tyrion? Of
course, there's always the point that he had Lysa send that message to
her sister, implicating the Lannisters...and this probably looked like
another opportunity to drive a wedge...
--
Jack V
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Jack <vid...@gmail.com>, and
they made us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>4) He *does* seem to be indifferent to the war, doesn't he? He's
>not really making any plans at this point to do anything to protect
>the city. He really doesn't take Renly seriously *at all* does he?
>Does that make him a good judge of character or just lucky?
What about the chain and the wildfire? By the time the battle comes,
we see that he's really got it all pretty well in-hand after all. He
did depend on some luck with regards to the timing of it all, though.
C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.
- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Shawn Corey
> Because that's not why Littlefinger wants Harrenhal. Giving him
> Harrenhal makes him a great lord even if he never takes possession of
> it...he wants the associated prestige, not titular control over the
> Riverlands, persay (though I expect he wants that as well...but not so
> much as he wants to be powerful). I'm still not 100% clear on exactly
> what game he's playing, but it seems clear that he can parley even a
> crap reward like Harrenhal (which DOES seem to be cursed) into a usable
> piece in the game and even greater rewards (the Vale...Sansa...).
>
The game he's playing is the Game of Thrones. He wants to be king. So
far, he has Harrenhal and the Vale. His next conquest would be the North
(Winterfell). He has influence in Highgarden and Dorne. It's not
impossible to think he can turn the Lannister's loans to the crown into
some sort of influence. In short, he aiming for the top.
--- Shawn
John Vreeland
He probably did know whose dagger it was, because the story he gave was
very similar to the true story. For some time now I have wondered why
he risked telling that tale when he knew the king could deny it, but
you have just given me the answer: Petyr assumed that the king had
something to do with the attempt on Bran's life, and so Peter assumed
that the king would not claim the dagger if it came up.
Petyr was wrong, of course, but he lucked out anyway when Rob met his
death.
There was no one else available who could deny the claim by stating the
truth of the matter, so Littlefinger's ploy was quite brilliant.
Eoghan Scully
> >>hint, can he? I mean...Tyrion practically laid out his plan in this
> >>conversation and Pycelle STILL fell for it. How does someone so
> >>stupid end up as Grand Maester?
> >
> > By toadying up to those in charge. Lackeyability making up for a lack of
> > ability.
>
> Yeah...but he still had to be elected in Oldtown. You'd think that the
> Maesters wouldn't want someone like him as their Grand Maester..
Toadying can work for that as well. Especially if there are rivalries
between more able candidates that can be exploited. Witness Sam's expert
toadying on Jon's behalf.
> >>7) Big blunder here...including him at all was a minor blunder,
> >>but promising him Harrenhal and the liege lordship of the Trident
> >>played right into Littlefinger's hands. Of course it's pretty
> >>much impossible not to, as near as I can tell.
> >
> > Why is it a blunder? Tyrion has no intention of following through with
> > the plan but it makes Petyr think that he can work with Tyrion and maybe
> > even that he can get the best of any bargain with Tyrion. And if he does
> > decide to follow though after all then at least he gets Littlefinger out
> > of KL, probably permanently since if he takes Harrenhal he will have to
> > spend all his time subduing the riverlords.
>
> Because that's not why Littlefinger wants Harrenhal. Giving him
> Harrenhal makes him a great lord even if he never takes possession of
> it...he wants the associated prestige, not titular control over the
> Riverlands, persay (though I expect he wants that as well...but not so
> much as he wants to be powerful).
Perhaps. However a lame duck lord who can't even control his own
bannermen could easily become a laughing stock rather than a powerful
figure. Petyr might have a honeymoon period in which he would gain the
prestige of Harrenhal without being expected to rule the Riverlands but
after a while that would wear out. If he can't control his own people he
is not worthy of respect. Littlefinger would have to act quickly to
parlay an empty title into something useful.
Further, as I mentioned, Tyrion had no intention of keeping the bargain.
It was just a ruse to flush out Cersei's spy.
> I'm still not 100% clear on exactly
> what game he's playing, but it seems clear that he can parley even a
> crap reward like Harrenhal (which DOES seem to be cursed) into a usable
> piece in the game and even greater rewards (the Vale...Sansa...).
Only if he acts quickly. Which admittedly he did once he got the chance
but the piece Tyrion was offering was not really the Lordship of the
Trident, it was just the temporary appearance of being Lord of the
Trident. Valuable enough maybe but not greater in value than the task
assigned to Petyr in return.
Eoghan Scully
> vynh wrote:
> >>5) Well...they know they know...but why did Lord Baelish DO it?
> >>I know that's what Tyrion's thinking...and we STILL get no insight
> >>here as to why he did it...what was the point of this, then?
> >
> > As oppose to what? Tell Ned the truth, that the dagger belong to his best
> > friend, the King?
>
> course, there's always the point that he had Lysa send that message to
> her sister, implicating the Lannisters...and this probably looked like
> another opportunity to drive a wedge...
That's pretty much what I always thought. Implicating Tyrion was just
another way to create emnity between Stark and Lannister and lead to the
war that Petyr wanted.