Obrien, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing

[Yogisooner]

First of all, let me say taking anything out of context can, and is often
used to, create a self serving point of view. For instance, when Jesus
says, "Do not think I come to destroy the law, I come to fulfull it."
Without understanding Christanity in a fuller text, one would certainly
believe that Jesus was fulling the Jewish law, so all Christians must
therefore be Jews - Get my point.

Now, There are two Talmuds, the Mishna and the Gemara. Without becoming
too specific, lets just say that the former was an oral tradition of the
interpretation of Jewish laws, lifestyles, culture, etc. expounded by many
Jewish Rabbis several thousand years ago. It was codified around the time
of Christ. THIS IS WHERE YOUR QUOTES COME FROM.

Subsequently, many Jewish communities, Rabbis, scholors and theologians
refined, redefined and modified these teachings to ensure there collective
acceptability, cohesion, reverence and mannerfulness. This is where many
abhorant structures were removed. To go into why they were in there in the
first place is to explain the history and psychology of a people which
spans almost 5000 years. Suffice it to say, circumstances, time,
prejudice, local, etc. create many teachings - some good, some bad, some
inbetween, some time honored, some not, some which are overwritten, some
which stand the test of time.

To use these misunderstood quotations as a frame of reference is no
different than the all racists do to put another group down - and, it's
been going on for a very long time, and it seems to not have ended.

Next, all Jews don't take the Talmud as law. In fact, except for the very
orthodox, very few Jews know what it is, where to go about finding it, or
where it came from. It is, however, the essence of orthodox practice to
study the Tulmud (along with the Torah) - both forms - (with a learned
teachers, Rabbi, help) and develop wisdom through understanding.

Lastly, Obrien, I presume you are Irish. As Dr. Scott so elequently
taught, you are a decendent of Jeremiah, the so called "lost tribe of
Isreal." It appears that you are holding a mirror to yourself when you
speak.

[rpbc]

Yogi....A litte knowledge is dangerous, and utltimately, everything is
taken out of context. Hence, we see through a glass darkly. You're right
and wrong at the same time, depending on where one starts. We are to
check our souls regularly with that still, small voice within us. The
situation to which you speak is hopeless to correct within the human
experience, it's become part of the territory since the fall. Nothing has
fundamentally changed since then. All we do is take sides which seeks to
preserve our identity. My identity is tied to the West, and Israel's
survival is important to me. What ever thoughts I may have about Jews,
Khazars, Talmuds... and all that flows from that into world power
heirarchies is secondary to me siding with Israel in any armed conflict
designed to destroy it. Only God can actually correct the situation.

OBrien is not a racist anymore than Meir Kahane, and if I was Jewish,
Kahane would have been my Rabbi.

[Avatar]

Thank you, Yogi - you put it beautifully, coherently and so much better
than I did.

To my way of thinking, all religions must grow to encompass new
knowledge, new understanding of the universe and our place in it and
our understanding of a higher power and while it is necessary to
understand the history of one's chosen religion and if possible, an
understanding of other religions' history it is a terrible mistake to
quote past milleniums' beliefs as relevent other than as an
illustration of how we (or they) arrived as their current philosophy.
The fact that many Christian groups as well as Muslims are looking
backward rather than forward, troubles me.

[NonTravelerAgain]

I'm about ready to tear what's left of my hair out. I'd go on a long
skreed, but instead I'll try real hard to be brief with a couple of
questions:

Does Obrien believe that PMS is a practicing Jew pretending to be a
Christian? Obrien, if you read this, please answer in one word-yes or
no.

Do some here believe that somehow a Jewish person is more 'dead in sins
and trespasses' than any other person not of the faith?

Why do I seem to see such (specifically) anti-Jewish themes happening? To
wit:

Jews are 'anti-Christs' (more so than any other non-believer?).

Jews are notorius for cheating non-Jews (right...and they all have big
noses too).

Jews are "probably" no worse than white southern slave owners.

This is very unsettling stuff.

[Obrien]

Yogisooner, the converse of a little knowledge can also be a dangerous
thing.

Imagine prisoners who have been chained since childhood deep inside a
cave. Not only are their limbs immobilized by the chains, their heads are
as well so that their eyes are fixed on a wall. Behind the prisoners is an
enormous fire, and between the fire and the prisoners there is a raised
way, along which men carry shapes of various animals, plants, and other
things. The shapes cast shadows on the wall, which occupy the prisoner's
attention. Also, when one of the shape-carriers speaks, an echo against
the wall causes the prisoners to believe that the words come from the
shadows. The prisoners engage in what appears to us to be a game—naming
the shapes as they come by. This, however, is the only reality that they
know, even though they are seeing merely shadows of images.

Suppose a prisoner is released and compelled to stand up and turn around.
His eyes will be blinded by the firelight, and the shapes passing will
appear less real than their shadows. Similarly, if he is dragged up out of
the cave into the sunlight, his eyes will be so blinded that he will not
be able to see anything. At first, he will be able to see darker shapes
such as shadows, and only later brighter and brighter objects. The last
object he would be able to see is the sun, which, in time, he would learn
to see as that object which provides the seasons and the courses of the
year, presides over all things in the visible region, and is in some way
the cause of all these things that he has seen.

Once thus enlightened, so to speak, the freed prisoner would no doubt want
to return to the cave to free "his fellow bondsmen". The problem however
is that they would not want to be freed: descending back into the cave
would require that the freed prisoner's eyes adjust again, and for a time,
he would be inferior at the ludicrous process of identifying shapes on the
wall. This would make his fellow prisoners murderous toward anyone who
attempted to free them.

Works Cited:
"The Alegory of the Cave"
by Plato

[sososo]

Yogisooner wrote:

Lastly, Obrien, I presume you are Irish. As Dr. Scott so elequently
taught, you are a decendent of Jeremiah, the so called "lost tribe of
Isreal." It appears that you are holding a mirror to yourself when you
speak.

Sososo writes:

This last statement by yogisooner nullifies anything he says. Do your own
research, please.

[gstanton]

There is nothing new under the Sun. Who said that?
Not wanting a Jew as pastor of a Christian Protestant church is NOT
anti-semite!
Nothing wrong with learning from the past, just a lot wrong with repeating
the mistakes of the past.
I don't care when the teaching was live in Doc's case. It is always
useful, even when he is teaching on giving. No one has to give,that's why
it is called giving.

[rpbc]

Avatar wrote: To my way of thinking, all religions must grow to encompass

new
knowledge, new understanding of the universe and our place in it and
our understanding of a higher power and while it is necessary to
understand the history of one's chosen religion and if possible, an
understanding of other religions' history it is a terrible mistake to
quote past milleniums' beliefs as relevent other than as an
illustration of how we (or they) arrived as their current philosophy.
The fact that many Christian groups as well as Muslims are looking
backward rather than forward, troubles me.

Avatar.... excuse me, but in all sincerity, what new understanding of the
universe, and our place in it, and our understanding of a higher power
power has taken place? And what is that new understanding?

Rather than being troubled by looking backwards, it is more impressive to
consider that philosophy, and its spawn, science, for all it's cataloging
of cause and effect, have not been able to provide a concrete answer to
even one absolute question about the essential nature of reality... can't
even provide an absolute reference point for time, since everything
observable, including the observer, is in motion.

And human activity has always been governed by the aggressive use of
force. When has that changed?

[stevopowell]

NT,

I am responding as some of the concerning comments below are mine. I am in
no way anti-Semitic. The point to my post was to show that the Jewish
people, for the most part, are without Christ and Christ deniers. May I
point out that we were all enemies of God before we came to the cross. Let
me respond to some of the statements below that you found disturbing and
assuage your fear that I am in any way racist or anti-Semitic.

> Jews are 'anti-Christs' (more so than any other non-believer?).

I wanted to bring out that any religion that denies that Jesus is the Christ
is an anti-Christ religion. This includes most of the world. My point was
that Judaism, as a religion, is an anti-Christ religion. I in no way
intended that comment to be sweeping over all descendence of Isaac. I love
the Jewish people as all other people, but I cannot love the religion that
keeps them in bondage to unbelief and alienated from God and His Messiah,
the Jewish Jesus.

> Do some here believe that somehow a Jewish person is more 'dead in sins
> and trespasses' than any other person not of the faith?

Jews are not more dead in sins if they are not saved. When you walk through
a mortuary and look at the dead bodies you do not say, "Well, these folks
are dead, but THIS ONE has a really good case of the dead! He is deader than
the rest!" That would be ridiculous! The point I was trying to bring out was
that they are under the realm of the prince of the power of the air. Please
read the statement as it stood. "They, as we all were, are dead in
trespasses and sins." Notice that I said, "As we all were." I didn't say
they were more dead than I was before I was saved, but that they are, as ALL
UNSAVED PEOPLE REGARDLESS OF RACE ARE, "children of wrath" (see
aforementioned Bible quote from previous post - Eph 2.1-5).

> Jews are "probably" no worse than white southern slave owners.

I intended this to be considered in context. I was speaking of the attitude
of "my race is better than your race." That theme shows up whenever racial
distinctions become strong. Racial pride of any sort is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Did the Jews experience a point in time when they committed the sin of
racial pride? Yes (assuming the quotes from Obrien's post are factual). Are
they worse, because of race, than others? No. They need, and may obtain,
God's forgiveness through Christ the same way any other person may obtain
it; faith in the Jewish Messiah.

~Stevo

"NonTravelerAgain" <an...@mailzilla.net> wrote in message
news:e6491b1d3b8b6d9e...@localhost.talkaboutpeople.com...

[MrDarkness]

First of all, Yogisooner, you're speaking to a group intimately
familiar with your psychological approach, that of the highly educated
elder who by his mere educational accolades makes the presumption that
his words will carry the day, that they'll be accepted as Gospel on the
sheer basis of authority.

You're quite wrong there, in this case. The legacy of Gene Scott is not
that he conditioned a congregation--softened them like Silly Putty to
be shaped to his will--but that he inadvertantly, unintentionally
warned them, hardened them against false prophets such as himself and
yourself.

Secondarily, you offer them the theology of Sikhism--at a most
inopportune moment in history. In the post 9-11 era, a
Johnny-come-lately (only half a century old) fusion of Sufi-Islam and
Hinduism isn't likely to be well received. Not after 9-11, not after
daily 72-virgin killings of Americans (presumably Christians--it's OK
if they they weren't). Not after the bombing of Air India Flight 182,
in which 307 men, women and children were killed (presumably Hindus,
Christians, Jews or otherwise non-Sikhs--it's OK if they weren't). Or
the bombings in Punjab and New Dehli, in which any woman, man or child
that happened to be within shrapnel range of the bombs were fair game.
The odds favored that they were Hindu, and therefore deserving of
dismemberment, of seeing their own large intestines before they
departed this Earth.

Thirdly, you put forth the notion that one's conception of God should
shape itself, should become a custom fit to human science. The tail
should wag the dog. One's perception of God should evolve. God, and the
manner in which he relates to us, should bend to us--not the other way
around. God should form himself around our changing shape.

Gene did that. He changed the face of TV evangelism. He was a master.
He was a fraud. He died rich.

[gypsi...@gmail.com]

D: The legacy of Gene Scott is not that he conditioned a

congregation--softened them like Silly Putty to be shaped to his
will--but that he inadvertantly, unintentionally
warned them, hardened them against false prophets such as himself and
yourself.

gypsie: correction here please. doc always intended to make "beef jerky
christians out of soft filet mignon". His words.

He intentionally ran things like a roto rooter cleaning out shit from
clogged pipes. His unpredictability and abuses were only a few of his
methods.

This is one of the reasons that doc followers are very set in their
thinking until enough evidence is presented (that they will look at)
and be honest with themselves or get wise to themselves (myself
included)

[papillo...@yahoo.com]

It's not just his last statement that nullifies anything he says, every
thing he presents in his message as a fact is wrong. Just by chance
you'd think he would have got something right. Damn, it takes real
effort to be that wrong.

P.S. everyone keep their eyes open this Sunday as I think something
VERY BIG is going to go down in Israel.

Oh, and Yogi, Israel is real but it ain't spelled 'isreal'. You'd
think that someone claiming Biblical knowledge would learn how to spell
a word that occurs over 2600 times in the King James Bible.

[prettykitty]

Hay papi......I was just wondering.

Have you been listenings to the J.D.L.program?

[sososo]

Thanks Pap,

I for one do not pay any attention to what this character says. From his
first post I saw it was a waste of my time.

I chose to point out this last statement because anyone could see this
error, not everyone will see his others.

Thanks for the heads up about Israel.

[prettykitty]

pap....I wanted to ask you about the J.T.F not J.D.L.

[papillo...@yahoo.com]

J,D.L. = Jewish Defense League?

I don't know what J.T.F stands for.

[papillo...@yahoo.com]

That sounds like a very good policy regarding Yogi.

I could be wrong about this coming Sunday in Israel. In fact I hope I
am wrong. But I really think something very big and very bad is going
to happen.

[Beach_Bum_13]

While we are picking his post apart,

"Lastly, Obrien, I presume you are Irish. As Dr. Scott so elequently
taught, you are a decendent of Jeremiah, the so called "lost tribe of
Isreal."

Not exactly Yogi. Irish heritage would make him a decendant of one of the
"lost tribes" (note the plural), yes, but not necessarily a decendant of
Jeremiah the prophet, who himself was a member of the tribe of Levi ("The
words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth
in the land of Benjamin" - Jer 1:1) and therefore a Jew.

This is not a group who are scripturally ignorant Yogi. Love him or hate
him, when it came to the bible, Gene Scott knew his stuff, and most of the
posters here picked up quite a but of bible knowledge from listening to
him, especially in the years before it became all tithe all the time.

You really should try and get at least the basics right in your posts if
you want to be taken seriously.

[rpbc]

Pap.... here is the link. JTF stands for Jewish Task Force.
http://www.jtf.org/

[studio]

That's what I thought when watching the news
too Pap.

What a big transition!

All it takes is one moefoe to blow up his own
mosque or something equivelent and blame it
on the soldiers or some other equally as
evil concoction.

Man, these last day events are 1,000 times
better than any reality TV bullshit.