FUNDAMENTALS OF THE FAITH
voice-of-history
church steps.
The fundamentals of the faith begin with the fact that Faith Center -- the
church in Glendale California -- belongs to the public, as a public
charity, organized and operated under state and federal laws. Faith
Center is also a tax-exempt entity as far as the Internal Revenue Service
and Franchise Tax Board are concerned. Melissa Scott did not inherit any
assets from Faith Center as Faith Center cannot leave a will. If Faith
Center "dies," its assets are given to public purposes, not Melissa Scott.
Faith Center's assets are irrevocably devoted to the people of the state,
a legal status which is under the supervision of the State Attorney
General. Faith Center owned the church property in Glendale and its
television and other equipment. Faith Center became the host to the
University Network.
The other assets -- i.e., the University Network, the Cathedral, Bible
collection, Sunset Mauseleum in Northern California, ranches in
California, San Marino mansion, Oroville family home, copyrights, artwork,
Delores Press, horses and farms, limousine service, businesses with Ed
Masry, life insurance proceeds, and personal checking and savings and
investments -- are not church property, technically speaking; rather, they
are owned by profit-making, tax-paying individuals and entities. These
assets can be passed at death by means of succession, such as a will, a
trust, stock, and contract. They can be passed at death relatively but
not entirely free of supervision of the IRS, FTB, Attorney General, and
other law enforcement agencies, which exist for the protection of the
tithing public.
Gene Scott operated through these profit-making, tax-paying entities. He
had followers pay tithes and offerings to him personally, in his name, so
that he could accumulate wealth that would inure to him personally
(including the entities he controlled). Gene Scott claimed that he never
cashed the checks in his own name; rather, he said that he deposited them
into the church. Here's the key: "the church" he is referring to is the
organization of profit-making, tax-paying entities that bought and held
the assets mentioned above. He also gave from these assets for
charitable, philanthropic, and political purposes.
Melissa Scott told congregants that she inherited these assets, including
Gene Scott's intellectual property and works, such as tapes, books,
copyrights, i.e., the entire Gene Scott library and papers. If she is
telling the truth, then she has acquired these assets subject to private
restrictions imposed upon her by Gene Scott, including the trust he placed
in her, written and oral. Such restrictions are enforceable, privately,
including the trust he placed in her, but these restrictions are
relatively free, but not entirely free, of supervision by the government
for the protection of the public, i.e., mainly followers.
What Gene Scott did to Pastor Ray Schock, and to Dr. Pierce and his
theological work, Melissa Scott will do to Gene Scott. Melissa Scott will
phase Gene Scott out altogether, phase out his followers, change attorneys
and staff (they are part of the old guard), change programs, and leave
California.
For people not around in Faith Center days, when Gene Scott came to the
church, Dr. Pierce's theology tapes were no longer played; he had a radio
broadcast and taught live in the church. Pastor Shock was blurred out of
the TV programs, and the "But God" sign above the pulpit that was
associated with Pastor Schock and Faith Center in Glendale was removed,
although Gene Scott kept the pulpit and seats "as is." Gene Scott rewrote
history with Faith Center. Melissa Scott is rewriting history with Gene
Scott --i.e., she's blurring him out as Gene Scott blurred Ray Schock from
all the old tapes.
The people who are giving to Melissa Scott are buying assets in her name,
while not requiring her to be accountable, and she is not accountable for
herself or for her stewardship of Gene Scott's 30+ years of dedicated
teaching.
The Word is not going out as Melissa Scott claims, because Gene Scott's
broadcasts are not openly and freely available to the public under her
stewardship. The public, in turn, are not free to pay tithes and
offerings for Gene Scott's broadcasts to continue, because their money is
diverted to Melissa Scott and her broadcasts. Melissa Scott is entitled
to start her own ministry, as Gene Scott said about all of his spiritual
sons, but he did not intend for her to do so at the expense of his
ministry being terminated.
Gene Scott would not be proud of Melissa Scott's stewardship. He would
want his spiritual sons to fight for his ministry back, i.e., to restore
his teaching back on the archives, the public broadcasts, satellite, and
shortwave, to bring back the meetings at Faith Center with communions, to
restore his study by day and festival by night, and generally restore the
integrity of the faith message; and to remove Melissa Scott from her
leadership position, and to let her do whatever she wants to do on her own
with the money that he gave her as his wife, but for her not to be
associated with his ministry. All Melissa Scott has sown for the past
year and a half is strife, unrest, and confusion, and she has demoralized
the congregation and staff. Gene Scott fought government censors; he
would want his followers to fight private censors as well to save his
broadcasts and to promote them properly, ethically, and responsibly.
Gene Scott would not want his sermons and festivals cut and pasted to
promote Melissa Scott. For 30 years, he aired the messages without
cutting and pasting.
Melissa Scott is the author of confusion here telling people that Gene
Scott's message is too offensive to be aired publicly. See Bill Maher's
program on HBO.
And if Melissa Scott believes otherwise, let her publish Gene Scott's
papers showing the true terms and conditions under which she "inherited"
his library, and any other papers she claims to possess that would
contradict.
Gene Scott would also tell his spiritual sons not to be afraid of Melissa
Scott and her attorneys, particularly Patty Glazer. They are not above
the law.
In case you're wondering about the distinction made above between public
charity and private, tax-paying, profit-making entities, the significance
is the fact that private ownership means private ownership. Churches and
other public charities and their assets are irrevocably dedicated to
public purposes and belong to the people; and they are supervised by the
Attorney General and other authorities. Calling a private organization "a
church" does not change the fact that it is still a private organization,
and that the money people give to it will be owned by private parties.
The private party may decide to shut the doors and travel to 13 countries
where the private party speaks 13 languages, and the people cannot
complain that they gave to "the church", nor expect supervision by the
state on their behalf. If they want it supervised, they have to supervise
it, enforce it, and fight for it.
matt2442
matt2442:
I may be wrong, and apologize if I am, but I have a feeling that you
might be Joe C.
I appreciate what you wrote here regarding taking the ministry of gene
Scott back from Melissa, and restoring the teaching, etc. My
perspective on this is a bit different, however.I have mixed feelings
about the whole issue. I don't know if I qualify as one of Doc's
spiritual sons, as one who left his ministry nearly 15 years ago. When
I left, I did so disgusted, and disappointed with Gene Scott himself,
Melissa Scott not yet even a factor in anything, as she hadn't arrived
yet. His own integrity as a teacher and a pastor has come under
question and scrutiny in this group, among many who once followed with
enthusiasm, and left with great pain. The flagrant abuse he dished out
to those who served him, and loved him the most, in some cases like a
father, remains a major stain on his ministry. Whether his teaching
should be preserved in light of that is also questionable. You may not
find too many people in here that are very enthusiastic about
preserving or restoring his teaching, though I may be wrong about that
too. If you are addressing those still on the inside, or some who have
left since Melissa took over, you may have some who are willing to take
you up on your call to fight for the remnant of Dr. Scott's ministry.
I'll sit back and watch what happens.
highwire
voice-of-history wrote:
> The fundamentals of the faith begin with the fact that Faith Center -- the
> church in Glendale California -- belongs to the public, as a public
> charity, organized and operated under state and federal laws.
You should know VOH that the only assets under Faith Center are the
Glendale church and studio. All other assets are under Wescott which is
covered by a different set of rules.
highwire
That was the beauty of docs scheme. Once he took control of Faith
Center he left the assets alone. He then could use the network as the
fundraising vehicle for Wescott. Once the Faith Center creditors were
paid all future monies and purchases were done under Wescott. It was a
cash cow that lasted until now and was passed on to Melissa.
matt2442
matt2442:
I meant to ask before, and I think it has come up in here before, but
does Faith Center actually exist anymore? Obviously the buildings still
do, but Doc could have dissolved Faith Center. The sign said Wescott
Christian Center in front of KH1 when I started going there.
Research_Man
was dissolved and assets were transferred
to another Scott entity, controlled and
used for the benefit of Scott's.
Gene believed he was clever to avoid
fraud claims that brought down other
televangelists by telling viewers to
write checks payable to himself. He
believed he was clever is saying he'll
spend it and they're not entitled to
know how and where. Gene said anyone
can see the checks were deposited to
a church account.
There remains an argument for misleading
statements, misrepresentation and fraud
with Gene Scott's method.
He publicly solicits money from the studio
and properties of churches, as the Pastor
of a large church, deposits checks
into church accounts and claims the
tax exempt status. That obligates him
to open his books to inquiry on the
expenditures which he refused, hiding
the books.
He doesn't solicit money for Gene Scott, horsebreeder and stamp
collector.
Gene Scott and Melissa Scott claim
a church income of $1 per year for
their 60 hours of work a week for
the ministry.
Nobody believes that.
Their real income can be calculated
for them, based on transfers of
money and assets used for their
benefit, beyond reasonable salary
and expenses for pastors. That
figure can then be assessed tax
in accordance with governing law.
DP
I'd also like to ask VOH - who was Dr. Pierce? I've never heard that
name before, although I started watching the FBN in 1979. Was he an
associate pastor from Dr. Schoch's circle?
Also, does anyone know what became of associated pastors Jim Elliott
and Dan Chan?
As VOH states, I remember that Gene Scott used the pulpit (and no
blackboard) at KH1 when he preached at Sunday morning services until
the early 80's. When they were still doing evening services during that
time period, he would not use the pulpit but the communion table would
be down in front of the platform and the blackboard would be behind
him, so they had 2 different setups for Sunday services. The associate
pastors, including Pop Scott, would often sit in the yellow chairs on
the platform behind Gene.
-DP
rpbc
you have described the situation as it. She is a carbon copy of Gene
Scott, except that Gene Scott had the foolish notion that he could trust
her... something which never enters Melissa's mind (as she proclaims,
trust me). Gene Scott, his personal megalomania aside, was interested in
promoting God's word and saw faith Center as a vehicle to do it; Melissa
sees LAUC, and everything associated with it, as a vehicle to promote
herself. She is true to her type.
For those of you interested in keeping Gene Scott's teachings available,
as you felt the calling to support him, your new call to war will be
against her. She plans on doing away with you and everything that keeps
you there... she needs you for the transition, that is all. After that,
you'll be as welcome as old timers were to Scott from Ray Schocks
congregation. No matter which way you turn with coming events, there will
be harsh finger pointing and calls to shape up or get out from Melissa....
and other's, newer, will enforce her spirit on you to get in line or get
out. The one thing that will remain the same is the bulldozer. The
position has been given away, if you want to preserve Gene Scott's
teachings, to which you have no access, you will have to fight uphill
against superior firepower you have provided her. Everyday the situation
gets worse. If there had been a general rebellion soon after it was
apparent what she intended to do (the Mao uniform and threats, the purge
of certain individuals... Craig Lampe), you might have had a chance
without having to go to war. Now, you have to go to war. My guess is she
will be successful.
matt2442
rpbc wrote:
> rpbc wrote: Whether anyone agrees that the teaching should go on, or not,
> you have described the situation as it. She is a carbon copy of Gene
> Scott, except that Gene Scott had the foolish notion that he could trust
> her... something which never enters Melissa's mind (as she proclaims,
> trust me).
Matt2442:
Might as well have Joe Isuzu for a Pastor. (Trussssst me.)
> Gene Scott, his personal megalomania aside, was interested in
> promoting God's word and saw faith Center as a vehicle to do it; Melissa
> sees LAUC, and everything associated with it, as a vehicle to promote
> herself. She is true to her type.
>
> For those of you interested in keeping Gene Scott's teachings available,
> as you felt the calling to support him, your new call to war will be
> against her. She plans on doing away with you and everything that keeps
> you there... she needs you for the transition, that is all. After that,
> you'll be as welcome as old timers were to Scott from Ray Schocks
> congregation. No matter which way you turn with coming events, there will
> be harsh finger pointing and calls to shape up or get out from Melissa....
> and other's, newer, will enforce her spirit on you to get in line or get
> out. The one thing that will remain the same is the bulldozer. The
> position has been given away, if you want to preserve Gene Scott's
> teachings, to which you have no access, you will have to fight uphill
> against superior firepower you have provided her. Everyday the situation
> gets worse. If there had been a general rebellion soon after it was
> apparent what she intended to do (the Mao uniform and threats, the purge
> of certain individuals... Craig Lampe), you might have had a chance
> without having to go to war. Now, you have to go to war. My guess is she
> will be successful.
matt2442:
You're probably right rpbc. Those who would want to fight to REALLY
keep Gene Scott's teaching available, probably should have put up some
kind of fight soon after Doc died. It may be too late to do a whole lot
now.
suse...@hotmail.com
I have trouble with thinking what is going on is 'ok', regardless of
one's opinion of the validity of Doc's teaching or not.
I have not been a RC for a long, long time, yet I don't think diverting
what people paid to light a candle, to a sect I feel more 'correct' in
dogma, would be ethical.
I doubt people who supported Doc to keep Doc's teaching going 'until
Jesus comes' are going to be comforted by thinking, "Oh, hell, he was
probably wrong about x, y, z anyway." I don't think God needs to use
fraud & deceit to sort out his message.
I may have a different perspective as I don't regret my years with Doc;
my life didn't self-destruct; where I diverged from him theologically I
am stubborn enough to have just said to myself, "Ah, Doc is wrong here,
he just needs to hear my opinion, too bad for him", lol; and mostly,
that hearing Doc's Resurrection message & Communions were a factor in
my husband's becoming a Christian, with no deleterious side effects.
I'm not negating the experience of those who suffered so much, just
saying why I don't feel it is so paramount to stop Doc's message going
out that any means (including lies, theft, misrepresentation, &
ignoring someone's dying wish, even that of a narcissist & possible
sociopath) are acceptable in doing so.
voice-of-history
ministry, which took effect at his death, are enforceable now, and will
remain enforceable for so long as Melissa is his steward and legal
fiduciary, and it is not too late to hold her accountable as the fiduciary
and steward of his ministry.
The gifts to Gene Scott were not deposited into a church whose activities
are governed by rules for nonprofit, taxexempt organizations. Thus, the
books are not open to public inspection as research man suggests. In
other words, research man, your error is in looking at the church as a
traditional church. It was not. Gene Scott was a teacher who taught
God's Word for his living. His followers paid for the teaching with
tithes and offerings to God, through Gene Scott's "storehouse," a
self-styled "church" which was a "for profit" organization, not a
nonprofit, tax-exempt church as defined by state and federal law.
The pain inflicted on the spiritual sons, staffers, and voices of faith
who were abused by Gene Scott is a different topic altogether. Gene
Scott's death put an end to his abuse. If Melissa abuses followers, they
have other recourse.
The topic here is Melissa Scott putting an end to Gene Scott's public
ministry -- including Pop and Mom Scott's part in that ministry -- and
including the heritage and legacy of Glendale Faith Center, which includes
Pastor Schock, Dr. Pierce, and Dr. Borisma's music ministry.
Melissa recently butchered Mom Scott's 1958 Christmas sermon on a
festival. Mom Scott would have put Melissa's head under the icy cold
faucet in her farmhouse sink in Oroville. Either Melissa would come to
her senses or get out.
Melissa's resources have nothing to do with her winning the fight. The
government had resources and lost the fight Gene Scott put up to defend
his ministry.
Joe Cortez is not the Voice of History. Reggie should be looking into
what happened to Jim Elliott.
rpbc
Emmett
Emmett writes:
Voice, Dr jean said many times that he didn't own anything and
everything belonged to the church. Now you indicate he was misleading
and lying to everyone. With this in mind would it be possible for some
or all the people too sue for their money back or what is left of
it?????????
Did Dr. jean have to pay tax on these checks he received in his name???
Like personal income tax and state tax as we all do.
Thank you for all the information. You answered many of the questions
I had regarding Dr. jean and his scam.
>
> Melissa Scott told congregants that she inherited these assets, including
> Gene Scott's intellectual property and works, such as tapes, books,
> copyrights, i.e., the entire Gene Scott library and papers. If she is
> telling the truth, then she has acquired these assets subject to private
> restrictions imposed upon her by Gene Scott, including the trust he placed
> in her, written and oral. Such restrictions are enforceable, privately,
> including the trust he placed in her, but these restrictions are
> relatively free, but not entirely free, of supervision by the government
> for the protection of the public, i.e., mainly followers.
Emmett writes:
Are all these assets subject to inheritance tax or any other tax????
H8N S8N
Melissa is his steward and legal fiduciary, and it is not
too late to hold her accountable as the fiduciary
and steward of his ministry.
and note to VOH - "we" were wrong about muffin118, too
(well, emptyredseat was wrong)
H8n S8n
Emmett
matt2442 wrote:
Emmett writes:
The statue of limitations is usually 1 year on most law suits except
for fraud. I think!!!!! It long gone.
>
Obrien
Obrien wrote:
<snip>
Under California law a suspicion of wrongdoing, coupled with knowledge of
the harm and its cause, will commence the limitations period and once that
occurs, a complaint must be filed within two years.
Source:
consumerlawpage.com
gypsi...@gmail.com
On Oct 16, 3:21 pm, "voice-of-history" <for...@nospam.adelphia.net>
wrote:
VOH, what steps have you already taken re this?
Research_Man
exempt traditional church status is very
important. Gene Scott was having his cake
and eating it, too, by privatizing the assets,
while also claiming to have "given everything"
to "the church" and drawing neglible
"income" from it.
As a private educational corporation, it
is subject to income and other taxes.
Melissa and Gene held worship services
to convince Los Angeles officials and
others that their enterprise is a church,
and not subject to taxes.
If their organization is not a tax exempt
church, then they are not entitled to certain
protections afforded tax exempt churches.
Claiming a private church, private property,
private books doesn't get them off the
accountability hook, since private company
books are required by law to be kept to
maintain corporate status. The books and
records are subject to subpoenae in civil
suits and tax liability audits. The company is
subject to labor laws against not paying
people who do the same tasks as others
who are being paid.
There's another concept that the Scott outfit
violates, which is "confusion." I have served
as a court appointed expert in some
"confusion" cases, involving logos, signage,
slogans and use of commonly used terms
to mean something different in a money
making enterprise.
The common theme was that money flowed
to the "confuser" who "knew or should have
known" that what they were doing or saying
would confuse the reasonable person. The
confusion had to result in money flowing to
the confuser.
The confuser rides on the coat tails and common
public recognition or understanding of their
verbage and symbols which the confuser
used to represent itself or himself and that
created some level of trust and encouragement
for money to flow to the confuser.
Gene and Melissa Scott create confusion
calling themselves pastors, their enterprise
a "ministry" with services at their "church",
"chapel", "sanctuary", "cathedral". By soliciting
"tithes" and "offerings" as a form of "worship
of God" they have departed from educational
tuition and fees.
If there is no tax exempt church entity at all,
that explains why they don't "give" tax deductions.
They cannot. It would be illegal to hold themselves
out as an entity for which the deduction
would be lawful. However, they don't admit that.
Their position could be seen as intentionally
"confusing" since they avoid disclosing that they
are not a qualified tax exempt entity. Instead
they call it a church and cover their inability
for giving to them to qualify as a tax deduction.
Instead they counter with a theological rationale of
double-dipping from God, which they don't want.
VOH "The gifts to Gene Scott were not deposited
Research_Man
which took effect at his death, are
enforceable now,"
Do you know where and how those restrictions
were spelled out? Is their a document or
will that lists the restrictions on her?
Someone might have checked whether
or not there was a probate case. I haven't.
Timmah
play into the scheme?
The implication is that it is for "the church", meaning as it relates to
the people who go there for worship.
Talk about a "confuser". There is no explanation as to what that donation
was specifically for.
Can the people who donate under the implication that they are members see
the actual financials?
And how can a church demand personal information to grant tickets
(discrimination) to the show?
Research_Man
confusion the Scotts use to reap benefits
playing both sides of the "church" coin.
When Gene and Melissa Scott solicit money,
from their congregation, in their pastoral
role, wearing a clerical collar, from their
ministry, with the words "Christian" and
"Cathedral" in the entity names, the
majority implication is that the "secret" is
for the good of the "church" which they
represent their enterprise is. They
assert it is "the body of Christ" "God's
house" and a place for "worshipping God"
and "the greatest church in" hundreds
of years, if not thousands.
They are not seeking funds as private
citizens outside the ministry avenues,
or to outside funders such as investment
bankers.
The building spires, "Jesus Saves" signs,
lobby bible exhibits and gospel music
re inforce that it is a church in the usual
sense, for worshipping God.
They take advantage of that trust.
As a private company, they can require
guests on their property to disclose their
personal informaton. The guest has the
choice not to give that information and
not to visit there.
An individual who gives under the
implication, or confusion, of it being
a tax exempt church, wouldn't be
entitled to see the books, if it is not
an exempt organization. However,
they would be entitled if subpenaed.
They can file a lawsuit, claiming confusion
Confusion cases are not difficult. A key
requirement to prevail is to find a
disinterested party or more, either
familiar with the industry, or unfamiliar
with it. When shown the advertisement,
slogal, symbols, language and
representations of a "confuser" the
witness needs only to say, it is confusing.
They thought it was a church in the
usual sense of what being a church means.
There are enough liknesses to confuse.
The representations led him or her to
believe, on the face of it, and without
in depth scrutiny, that the enterprise
was confused with another, that was
known and trusted as credible.
The witness doesn't have to have actually
given money based on that confusion.
In fact, disinterested parties are better
confusion experts, because they are
seen as less biased, that someone who
was duped.
rpbc
Gypsie asked, if a case is being built, I wonder how far along is it.
Wonder which of the government agencies will be most interested, and most
able to carry a case forward. I don't believe they have been idle, and
besides, they have a grudge to grind. In the fray, maybe Gene Scott's
copyrighted material will pop out. How ironic that would be... government
action against LAUC makes Gene Scott's material available to public.
Obrien
violation of the law if they had contributed money to an elected
official.
PMS has contributed money to Pasty Glazing.
Pasty Glazing holds several elected positions with various entities,
including PMS's own "church Board."
Pasty Glazing might argue that she was not actively seeking elected
office(s) while engaged on a "political campaign trail."
suse...@hotmail.com
Melissa recently butchered Mom Scott's 1958 Christmas sermon on a
festival. Mom Scott would have put Melissa's head under the icy cold
faucet in her farmhouse sink in Oroville. Either Melissa would come to
her senses or get out.
Joe Cortez is not the Voice of History. Reggie should be looking into
what happened to Jim Elliott.
Ok, who's Jim Elliott? This is worse than one of Ted Casablanca's Blind
Items (and just as full of Scientologists).
Very interesting. I'd like to see the government enable Doc's material
to be available to the public once again. Must be that irony gene. Yes,
I'd enjoy it very much.
voice-of-history
Time is not a resource. There is no statute of limitations on Melissa
Scott's fiduciary duties.
Distance is not a factor either. Melissa Scott cannot distance herself
from Gene Scott's ministry.
Gene Scott and his entities were liable for income taxes on the money that
was paid to him in his name, and then deposited into the profit-making,
tax-paying entities.
Gene Scott's estate was subject to federal estate and gift tax laws, but
federal estate taxes were deferred by his estate plan. In his estate
plan, Melissa Scott was one deferral mechanism.
As the fiduciary of Gene Scott's ministry, Melissa Scott is regulated by
the terms and conditions that he imposed upon her, and by the rules that
govern fiduciaries generally.
Melissa Scott finds comfort and strength in the fact that people were
individual students of the master teacher, not a body of believers. If
people see themselves as a body of believers, however, they say, Gene
Scott is dead, but the body is still alive. They say they want to
continue the institution that they helped create. They say they want to
restore the archives of Glendale Faith Center and Gene Scott's subsequent
work, restore baptisms, communions, study by day and teaching by night
festivals of faith. A body of believers does not care that Gene Scott
chose Melissa Scott as the fiduciary, if the fiduciary is not carrying on
the work on the ministry.
At a minimum, the fiduciary Melissa Scott should mow the grass and trim
the garden at Glendale Faith Center, open the doors to the public, raise
the shades on the windows, and install the flat screen televisions
necessary to display the ministry of Gene Scott and his predecessors, so
that the body of believers have a church to attend, and for the public.
The body also needs to demand that the Bible Collection be put on display
with open doors at the Cathedral for the public.
There is continuing confusion about "the church." Melissa Scott is not a
traditional church. Gene Scott created a private church organization that
is not regulated by laws that govern traditional religious organizations.
In addition, Gene Scott became the fiduciary of Glendale Faith Center. He
did not own its assets, including the archives of Pastor Schock, etc.
These archives and assets, including the church building and studio, and
the Laurel Street rentals, etc. belong to the public. Melissa Scott has a
fiduciary obligation to continue them for public benefit.
Gene Scott himself admitted on Herzog's interview that he was subject to
the will of the church polity, who could throw him out, and to the boards
of his private, profit-making organizations. The board included Mom and
Pop Scott at one time, then Ed Masry, and eventually Patty Glazer.
Attorney Patty Glazer has a incurable conflict of interest in attempting
to represent the board, the individuals (Gene Scott and Melissa Scott),
and the body of believers. With such a conflict, it is impossible to
think that she will act in the best interests of the body. This is
especially true given the fact that she is Jewish and never converted even
to Gene Scott's message of faith.
In addition to understanding that "the church" is a private organization
that sets up its own rules in an attempt to avoid accountability to the
government and to the public, one must understand that Melissa Scott is
both fiduciary and pastor. As pastor, Melissa Scott has a self-interest
in launching her own new career as a pastoring teacher that is in direct
conflict with her duties as fiduciary to Gene Scott's ministry, and as a
fiduciary over Glendale Faith Center and its established ministry prior to
Gene Scott's leadership.
Secret M1 was for Melissa Scott's new ministry as Pastor Melissa Scott.
It was not for Gene Scott's ministry. It was not for Glendale Faith
Center's legacy. When you give to Melissa Scott, tithes and offerings and
secrets, you are giving money toward launching her career.
Do any of you honestly believe that Steve the announcer at Vernon McGee's
ministry could launch his own career and destroy McGee's ministry in doing
so? Gene Scott intended for his ministry to be perpetuated. He used life
insurance to provide additional financing much the same as an endowment.
Finally, one reply has confused the fact that Melissa Scott teaches the
Bible with religion. Teaching the Bible does not make the organization
religious. Many professors teach the Bible and Bible history at regular
universities, and they are not saved. Its their job. Melissa Scott says
"I'm at my post."
More fundamentals later ....
voice-of-history
Melissa Scott's organization is a 501(c)(3) entity. It is not. It is a
private, proft-making, tax-paying organization. You see quickly how many
errors you can make when you start on the wrong footing. There are
campaign contribution limits on private entities, but the 501(c)(3) rules
do not apply. Patty Glazer is in an irreconcilable conflict, though, as
my last post will indicate.
rpbc
Scott's fiduciary duties.
Distance is not a factor either. Melissa Scott cannot distance herself
from Gene Scott's ministry.)
rpbc wrote: Well, I assume at some point certain actions will be before a
jury, or a judge. Time, and distance over time, with greater and more
complex entanglements, might aid the defense against total judgment...
that is what I meant, but I'm totally out of my area here.
PhilosopherGuy
paying corporation referred to as the church?
I recall hearing Gene say that Dolores Press is
that, and maybe the University Broadcast
Network. It came up when staff used the
equipment or truck of one for the purposes
of another. Gene was furious about "co-mingling"
that could put the tax exempt status of
one in jeopardy. Or so I thought he said, but
could have misunderstood.
Does anyone else remember that?
Patricia Glaser definitely has several conflicts
of interest. She's also on the payroll of the
driving force of the entity, which would make
her less likely to voice disagreement or to
give an objective legal opinion if it was not
what the good Pastor Scott wanted to hear.
Couldn't that get her in hot water with the
State Board of California on ethics violations?
Perhaps someone would have to file a
complaint or there would have to be some
incident that resulted in damages to one or
more of the parties whose interests she is
supposedly representing.
PhilosopherGuy
court somewhere? Was Probate opened or
does his estate file federal and state tax
returns?
Obrien
Obrien wrote:
How do you figure? How is it that Dawkter Scowt filed for 501(c)(3)
status, paid all associated fees, and was subsequently granted 501(c)(3)
status? I wrote: "PMS's outfit" is a 501(c)(3) Dolores Press is an IRS,
FTB, Cal state sales tax liability incurring for profit company, along
with other, "All Things Scott," associated Alphabet Soup entities and
corporations.
One concept that has not been brought-up:
Since Dawkter Scowt's death PMS has insisted that nothing has changed. It
seems reasonable that PMS should be forced to show to the state and feds
that her "outfit" continues to qualify as a 501(c)(3)
emptyredseat
Voh sounds like a lawyer.
I think about all the churches I’ve went to and all the bible reading I’ve
done
how Dr Scott is the only one that really filled me.
I know your to trust and believe but there is a little doubting Tomas in
all of us and to have some proof as Dr Scott always seemed to give and
true theological history is a pure blessing to some people who may read
the bible for eighty years of there life without understanding “how”.
So despite his bad rep in some areas. I think it is important to see his
work continue and especially in the last days when understanding is key in
trials and tribulations.
As to any spiritual sons here there may be a few…
A desperate call went out from elder permpoom offering his crown of (king
of afgs) to anyone that would stand up in the church and challenge
Melissa. I’ve posted the topic below. But I think you will find more
jilted lovers looking for compensation here then spiritual sons.
People here do have a valid complaint against Dr Scott for his abuse of
them.
Calling Martin Luther A SERIOUS POST
by Elder Perm Poom <permpoom@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mar 9, 2005 at 03:56 AM
OK. I am talking totally seriously here.
I'm not impressed with a lot of the posts here. I'm sure everyone has a
good heart and believes what they say, but very few seem to have
actually thought much about how they feel.
I read post after post of people talking about how important Doc's
teachings were in their lives. They admit his shortcomings, but say
that his impact on their lives more than make up for it.
Doc is dead. He isn't coming back.
Either his church was a real church that helped people, or he was just
an entertaining old goat on TV scamming people for money. Today, I am
going to take you Scotties at your word, and assume for a the rest of
this week that it was a real ministry and not a con. You have the
unique opportunity to shut me up and stop my criticisms forever.
If Gene Scott's church is a real church as defined by the Bible, it is
not the possession of any one person. It doesn't belong to anyone but
God because the church is the assembly of God's people.
I am going to ask you to wrap your head around that concept and think
about it. Forget how uncomfortable the consequences of that simple
statement are and just take it at face value for a moment.
If the church is the people, then the people have the right to choose
their pastor. The office of Pastor isn't a blood royal line to be
handed down through any particular family. Even the Pope isn't chosen
that way. The church chose Gene Scott to lead by election, and his
successor should be chosen the same way.
Despite all of his urgings to "Git onna phones!" Gene Scott did not
provide a way for the church to communicate with its leadership. There
is no governing board, and there are no lay elders. That means that the
only way for you, as a member of the church, to communicate with the
rest of the church is the same way Martin Luther did it.
That takes a lot of courage.
Luther nailed his complaint to the front door for all to see, and he
signed his name to it. His act of courage and belief in what was right
gave courage to others to join him and make a profound change in the
church.
The only way for anyone to request that an election be held for pastor
is for someone to stand up and be heard in front of the entire
congregation and TV audience. If you stood up and loudly said, "I am a
member of this church, and I respectfully request that a committee be
formed to select candidates for election to the post of pastor of this
church." do you honestly think that the other members would see you as
out of line? No. The whole church would go silent and Melissa would
have to address the request. If you said, "Gene Scott was elected
pastor, and the person who succeeds him should be elected the same
way." Melissa would have no choice.
But it would take courage and belief in the value of the church, just
like Martin Luther had.
As I said, for the rest of the week, starting right now, I am going to
suspend my the profound disbelief I have had in this church for the
past twenty years. I call on all of the McChurch members and Scott
mockers to do the same. If the people who belong to Gene Scott's church
feel strongly enough about it to stand up for it, I will accept that
the church does have value and it is a real church, not just a scam. I
will surrender my title as King of AFGS to the person brave enough to
stand up, because they will be more qualified to hold that title than
me.
If this Sunday goes by without anyone standing up for their church, I
will be convinced that the whole thing is phoney as a three dollar
bill, and no one got a lick of good out of it. What's more, I will be
convinced that you Scotties know that it isn't real in your heart of
hearts. If Gene Scott's ministry meant more to you than just an
entertaining old coot hollering at you over the TV set, you won't stand
by and let his wife lay claim to your church. You'll behave the way a
good Christian would behave in this situation. You'll act to defend the
independence of God's church. If you don't do anything and sit quietly
by, that will speak volumes about how UN-valuable the "teachin's" of
Gene Scott were. Your fond words of the difference Gene Scott made in
your life are just lip service, and your criticism of Melissa is just
idle gossip. You're just pretending to be a Christian.
Here is one last clue for you... Melissa does NOT own the copyright to
the tapes. Gene Scott created them as an employee of the church. They
belong to the church who paid for them. Melissa does not own the church
property, or have the right to remain in the parsonage. She was the
wife of the previous pastor... she didn't inherit God's house or God's
people. No court in America will deny the right of the church itself to
take control of its holdings and govern its own future.
Think about that and do what you have to do. I am not going to say
anything critical of Gene Scott until after I see what happens on
Sunday. The ball is in your court.
Blessings
--
Elder Perm Poom
KING of AFGS
The First Internet McChurch Tabernacle
http://www.mcchurch.com
permpoom@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
the Tabernacle! Bringing the GOOD NEWS of *PERMANENT* and
*IRREVOKABLE* REDEMPTION to the world! Glory be to GLUNKMAN! Hosea!
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
DP
Jim Elliott was an associate pastor at Faith Center in the late 70's
and probably left around 1980 or so. He used to lead the song service
at the beginning of the Sunday services, then he would introduce Doc
and then sit up on the platform next to Pop at the evening services
while Doc preached. Sometimes he would sing solo and sometimes with the
other singers. He always seemed to have an interesting, "full of faith"
approach to opening the services.
There was one service where he said, "I would like the cameras to swing
around and I would like everyone in this place to give each other a big
smile. There are about 3 people in this place who haven't smiled all
night and I'm worried about ya... did ya get that. OK... there, those 2
people just smiled. Well, be seated here in the King's House... our
pastor and the president of this network... Dr. Scott."
-DP
PhilosopherGuy
all the answers to theological mysteries that give
rise to doubt in all of us, the fact is some of his
"proof" upon which he insisted how things ought
to be done to get the results from God we want,
were plain wrong.
It is not for a man to say with assurance that
he knows what God will do and will not do in
response to any human action.
Obrien
Obrien wrote:
Would you now care to reconsider your position?
<snip>
FAITH CENTER INC
Address 1615 S GLENDALE AVE
GLENDALE, CA 91205-3317
Map-G Map-Y Map-V
IRS Subsection 501(c)(3) - A religious, educational, charitable,
scientific or literary organization.
Type of Foundation Church
Type of Organization Corporation
Deductibility Contributions are deductible
Tax I.D. Number 951956494
Exempt Since 01-1956
Form 990 Requirment Not required to file (church)
Activity #1 Church, synagogue, etc
Source:
melissadata.com
Obrien
Tax Concerns When Your Nonprofit Corporation Earns Money
It's a myth that your 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization can't make a
profit, but some of it may be taxable.
Nonprofit corporations, by definition, exist not to make money but to
fulfill one of the purposes recognized by federal law: charitable,
educational, scientific, or literary. Under state and federal tax laws,
however, as long as a nonprofit corporation is organized and operated for
a recognized nonprofit purpose and has secured the proper tax exemptions,
it can take in more money than it spends to conduct its activities.
In other words, your nonprofit can make a profit. Whether or not a
nonprofit's income is taxable depends on whether the activities are
related to the nonprofit's purpose.
Making a Profit From "Related" Activities
Tax-exempt nonprofits often make money as a result of their activities and
use it to cover expenses. In fact, this income can be essential to an
organization's survival. As long as a nonprofit's activities are
associated with the nonprofit's purpose, any profit made from them isn't
taxable.
Let's take as an example a group called Friends of the Library, Inc. It's
a 501(c)(3) nonprofit (which means it has a federal tax exemption),
organized to encourage the appreciation of literature and to raise money
for the support and improvement of the local public library. It makes a
profit from a lecture series featuring famous authors and from an annual
sale of donated books.
Can our nonprofit get in trouble for failing to file tax returns?
Because these activities are educational and literary in nature, they do
not jeopardize the group's tax-exempt status, and the proceeds from them
are not taxable. The organization may use this income for its own
operating expenses (including salaries for officers and staff) or for the
benefit of the local library. What it cannot do is distribute any of the
income to the nonprofit's officers, directors, or others connected with
Friends of the Library.
Source:
nolo.com
PMS continues to earn income from activities that are not related to her
501(c)(3) One such activity is by means of her porno business, which she
never really left. In discovering the recent past, and current, hidden
connections of PMS's involvement in these types of seedy underworld money
making activities, PMS's troubles are the tips of the trident.
Apparently, PMS has not paid taxes on her porno income and has several
unpaid tax-liens and is a wilfull non-filer, hiding behind the corporate
veil of a 501(c)(3) These next two months should bring about some unique
changes in PMS's lifestyle, not unlike another actor Wesley Snipes.
voice-of-history
the voice of history does not want to change position. As previously
stated, Faith Center Glendale is the church (since 1947 actually) and Gene
Scott launched his television ministry not there, but out of a
profit-making, tax-paying organization.
This also explains why Glendale Faith Center -- formerly a warm, lively
and diverse sanctuary -- is all but abandoned, dark and dreary today,
i.e., Gene Scott didn't want to pour money into assets that belong to the
public. Minimum maintenance is the obvious policy.
Even when Faith Center in Glendale was financially distressed, it was
open, lit, had a day school up to 6th grade, an administration office,
kids saying the pledge of allegiance in the back lot which is now fenced
off, and otherwise alive. The same padlock mentality spills over to the
Cathedral, which is only open to the public (on a private reservation
basis) on Sundays, and which has a heavy oppressive spirit from the
pulpit, according to reliable sources. "It feels like a morgue inside."
When Pastor Schock was in Glendale, a lady by the name of Charlene used to
greet the body in the front lobby. When Gene Scott came, Mom and Pop
replaced Charlene, and they greeted the body in the lobby. Gene Scott
even started the television ministry without any public reservations. It
wasn't exclusively a TV show; it was a body of believers primarily.
That's the real secret to the faith message. Today, even the baptism
service last summer was reportedly paranoid like a gestapo mafia. Melissa
Scott told people not to give any explanations about the ministry herself
fearing newspaper publicity.
Gene Scott used to say that Clara Grace's prophecy of joy was correct and
joy would return to the church. If the body wants joy, Melissa Scott will
learn it is about RESPECT for the body, i.e., in addition to the other
items mentioned, remove the bodyguards and their sunglasses, turn on the
lights, open the doors, display the glory of God and stop the stares.
Melissa Scott is not the President of the United States, and the ushers
and parking lot attendants and voices of faith on the phone are not the
Secret Service. That's not a church by anybody's definition. Yes to
proper management, control, rules of employee and volunteer conduct. No
to rudeness, impoliteness, and oppression.
The government problems (FCC, IRS, etc.) and media scrutiny are not valid
excuses for the weight of gestapo against the body of believers. All
decent public figures have security without molesting their audience.
Calling the Cathedral Gene Scott's "house" is weighty evidence of a major
shift in philosophy. It is the height of stupidity for Melissa Scott to
think that she is going to attract a body of believers by locking up the
sanctuary in Glendale and by padlocking and searching people at the
Cathedral.
The snippits about "if you don't like it, go somewhere else" or "start
your own ministry" came into being after the storehouse was full of tithes
and the body was dispensable. Such thoughts when spoken out loud also
exemplify the height of stupidity and provide still more reasons why the
joy has been removed. Joy comes from the leadereship.
Someone posted a research item on taxes imposed on certain activities of
nonprofits. It is true that tax-exempt charitable organizations can have
"unrelated business activities" that are taxable. But when the commercial
activities dominate, the tax exempt status can be revoked. However,
Glendale Faith Center -- the tax-exempt church here --is not engaged in
commercial activities, so this rule does not apply.
But where are the songbooks that Pop Scott used to lead the body in
singing?
H8N S8N
But where are the songbooks that Pop Scott
used to lead the body in singing?
H8n reply - most likely in one of the rooms with the other old,
discarded books. Not too far from the "Side-Band" radios !
The rich history of Faith Center, and there lucky if they got a
ROOF ! Maybe the neighbors colud comlpain the "church"
is dragging down their property values !
They have a new announcer on 830AM radio for Doc.
Did Doug go home ?
H8N S8N
PhilosopherGuy
front "church" in the legal entity sense,
As the original body from which Gene Scott's
businesses sprung, it does contribute to
that confusion of the public, and even
many congregants as to the non church
nature of the current "ministry" activities.
When I worked with a nonprofit years ago,
I recall the CEO talking about boosting
revenue and cutting costs. Most of the
workers weren't finance oriented. He
explained the reality this way "We're
not for profit, but nobody is for loss."
What you say voh makes sense. I remember
when United Way got into trouble years
ago because too much of their revenue
gains were spent on luxuries for the
top executives. Also they counted as
educational, their letters soliciting
donations because there were a fact
or two about their work in the slogans
on the letterhead used for the fundraising
campaign, that was disallowed.
There are also rules and limits on how much
income to a nonprofit can come from
the principals and officers and how much
revenue can be expended for the expenses
and benefit of the principals, officers
and their relatives.
If Melissa isn't crossing those lines, she's
surely skating in gray areas on the edge.
Most obvious is the claim of $1 annual
salary plus income plus expenses, that
are not subject to any limitation, approval,
or standards for teachers and pastors.
No C.E.O., driving force of a large
conglomerate is compensated that way.
Melissa probably puts the remodelling
of her new condo digs on the "church"
expense tab, like Leona Helmsley
who landed in prison for doing the same
thing, and her company paid taxes.
VOH, what's the tax status of Westcott
Christian Center? Doesn't it hold the
title to the LAUC and parkiing lot and
the Oroville Church and accept many
of the checks payable to Gene and
Melissa Scott? Is it an exempt front
for money laundering? What's their
tax id number?
Are the profit-making companies
Dolores Press, University Network
Broadcasting, Gene Scott or Bishop
Gene Scott Enterprises or Inc and
some Scott Horse entity?
Bet there are separate accountants
for each, who change every few
years so no one has the big picture.
voice-of-history
here; rather, think of them as simply income.
Now, why was Gene Scott obsessed with the tithes and offerings going to
him personally? Why were people not allowed to take the tax deduction
(here again put aside for the moment the spiritual teaching of taking back
what was giving to God)? Why were people told if they wanted a tax
deduction they needed to let him know that, and that Gene Scott could
offer a tax deduction although it was discouraged? Why were people told
to buy the books etc from Delores Press because it was "the tax-paying
entity?"
The answer to all of these questions is that there are two churches -- the
original Faith Center in Glendale, which is a real church that can accept
donations that are tax deductible (church #1) -- and Gene Scott's church
i.e., Dr. Gene Scott's teaching which is not set up to accept donations
that are tax deductible because Dr. Gene Scott's teaching (church #2),
unlike Faith Center Glendale (church #1), is not set up for public
benefit, but rather for private benefit.
It was to Gene Scott's advantage to keep Faith Center Glendale (church #1)
cash poor by diverting donations to Dr. Gene Scott's teaching (church
#2)where he would own and control everything (and be subject to fewer
controls by government regulators). By owning and controlling everything,
he was not limited to taking a large salary and allowances like most
pastoring teachers; he could actually own and control all the income, all
the property, during life and at death. Meanwhile, Faith Center Glendale
remained cash poor for 30 years. Gene Scott left Faith Center Glendale
worse off 30 years later than he found it 30 years ago when it was "in
debt." Gene Scott resurrected the television ministry from Faith Center
Glendale out of debt and used it to launch Dr. Gene Scott's teaching
(church #2).
After Gene Scott moved downtown, Faith Center Glendale became the center
for punishment for empty red seats at the Cathedral.
Think, what would have happened today if Dr. Gene Scott's teaching had
become cash poor, and Faith Center Glendale had become cash rich instead?
Or, stated another way, what would have happened if Gene Scott simply built
a television ministry out of Faith Center Glendale without churchh #2? The
answer seems clear. The body of believers and its board would control the
wealth of the church, and the pastor would be accountable to the body
because her position would belong to the church. And if you're wondering
who establishes the board, the body decides who sits on the board, and if
they can't agree, a judge will decide according to established state law.
It is to Melissa Scott's personal financial advantage to walk in the
footsteps of Gene Scott. She is carbon copying his structure. Expect
church #3.
Melissa Scott has called her teaching a church (church #3), is starving
Gene Scott's ministry (church #2), continues to divert donations from
Faith Center Glendale to keep it continually cash poor (church #1), and
takes all the money and property to promote herself and for herself. In
particular, Melissa Scott is diverting corporate life insurance proceeds
to launch her new career (church #3). These are life insurance proceeds
that belong to church #2 (Dr. Gene Scott's teaching that he intended to
perpetuate), which ironically are primarily and properly the proceeds of
church #1 (Faith Center Glendale) -- the catalyst.
Of course, Melissa Scott will demand spiritual sons and daughters for
church #3, but she will not honor them in the end (goodbye).
Thus, Gene Scott's church model -- his "TAXONOMY" you might say -- has its
advantages only when you're alive.
This same TAXONOMY has serious disadvantages, which should be obvious.
Individuals aside, the church at Faith Center Glendale is defenseless
against this TAXONOMY. It had a rich 30-year history when Gene Scott came
on the scene, starting in 1947, with many earnest, honest, devoted
believers of all walks of life.
Papillon
I'm no lawyer, but that all makes a lot of sense to me and it does seem
to be what we have witnessed are are currently witnessing.
gypsi...@gmail.com
> > believers of all walks of life.I'm no lawyer, but that all makes a lot of sense to me and it does seem
> to be what we have witnessed are are currently witnessing.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
Yeah, afgs has discussed exactly this scenario extensively (especially
since doc's death).
Again, VOH what steps are you taking re this? If none, why not?
emptycoffers
assets alone, but the broadcast equipment and
network contracts that launched his private
church belonged to Faith Center.
How did he resurrect that, as you said, by just
taking them? Did he kick out the 100
Faith Center church members who elected him?
emptycoffers
Mrs. Scott's plan? She has talked about
rebuilding her own new church from
what's left of Dr. Scott's like he did
at Faith Center.
Vofhistory what would you ball park
estimate the net worth of what
Mrs. Scott controls whether it's in
her name or not?
Does Patti Glaser give a rip?
Papillon
Stan & Ethel were original Faith Center members, weren't they? Or is
that just an assumption I've always made? Anyone know?
emptycoffers
Scott shouldn't be using the word church
to describe what's going on. It's more of
a private bible school and production
company for Dr. Scott and bible based
teachings.
What do you think should be done and who
would or could do it? The volunteers and
staff here now can't and won't. Is it someone's
job to make sure churches and people who
go to them to worship don't get ripped off?
And that they're a real church?
Papillon
Sounds like a real Pandora's box. I would rather fight for Barbi's
right to teach heretical doctrine to her member-less church than aid
the government in violating the freedom of religion clause of the first
amendment.
highwire
Papillon wrote:
> Sounds like a real Pandora's box. I would rather fight for Barbi's
> right to teach heretical doctrine to her member-less church than aid
> the government in violating the freedom of religion clause of the first
> amendment.
I agree. I really don't have a problem with doc or melissa moving money
throughout their organizations.
The problem is first he lied all the years when he would brag he was
different from teleevanglists because he pastored a "chuch" that could
vote him out. Second by demanding checks be made out to him, he was
responsible for income taxes as an individual
damnthetorpedos
right, then the only real church is
the cash poor Faith Center in Glendale
and they don't use that building for
regular church services, don't have
members or pastors, then maybe they
don't qualify for the tax exempt church
status anymore.
Without that shell as a church veil,
the other organizations would be
exposed for the capitalistic businesses
that they are.
I agree that it's the lies that stink.
Like "you can buy a tape from Dolores
Press. The church doesn't sell things,
Dolores Press does." Then finding out
Gene Scott's church front owns Dolores!
We should care about tax evasion by
the wealthy businesses and individuals.
Those missing millions to government
increase what is taxed upon the
middle and lower classes. There's less
funding for services more likely to be
used by the middle and lower class
with less tax money.
Not that government is efficient or
fair with money, but a few million
here and a few million there and
you're talking about some serious
money which means higher taxes for
the rest of us.
rpbc
rpbc wrote: Gene Scott said many times that the conditions (among others)
he set for him coming to Faith Center as pastor was a unanimous vote of the
board members, and after voting for him, they all had to resign. I can't
be the only onw who remembers that.
emptycoffers
in with a plan to get a church shelter
for his businesses that no one else
could have a say in.
That doesn't fit with his marshalling
his listeners to be a part of their
church and sharing in the victories.
matt2442
matt2442:
He said that often enough. I certainly do remember that.
matt2442
damnthetorpedos wrote:
> If what voice of history is saying is
> right, then the only real church is
> the cash poor Faith Center in Glendale
> and they don't use that building for
> regular church services, don't have
> members or pastors, then maybe they
> don't qualify for the tax exempt church
> status anymore.
>
> Without that shell as a church veil,
> the other organizations would be
> exposed for the capitalistic businesses
> that they are.
>
> I agree that it's the lies that stink.
> Like "you can buy a tape from Dolores
> Press. The church doesn't sell things,
> Dolores Press does." Then finding out
> Gene Scott's church front owns Dolores!
matt2442:
As someone who simply listened to Doc's teaching, and paid my tithes, I
didn't know much about the various entities, and how they related to
the church, or whether they paid taxes or not. Mine was not to
question, as I understood things. I did understand all along that
Dolores press was owned by either Faith Center, or Wescott Christian
Center.
studio
Is there a difference between
Board Members and Church Members?
For doc to say, "there are no members of
this church", was he not overstepping his
boundry? Did he not just bully his way through
that scenario and hope nobody caught on?
DP
Yes, I remember it too. I once transcribed a little pastoral speech of
Doc's from a Festival in which he described how he came to Faith Center
in 1975. I think he brought it up around the time that he was
ultimately losing the license to Ch. 38 KVOF, probably in late 1985.
He said there were 16 terms that had to be voted unanimously by the
board members and one of the terms was that the board had to resign.
Another term was that Pastor Schock had to resign and be retired with
full salary. A 3rd term was that all of these terms had to be voted
unanimously in a "public business meeting."
In this particular broadcast, he never elaborated on what the other 13
terms were. I also wonder if any meeting minutes were ever recorded at
that "public business meeting" ?
-DP
rpbc
that scenario and hope nobody caught on.
rpbc wrote: It seems to me he overstepped his boundry by saying there are
no members of this church... owing the fact that the commonly held
definition of a church includes a supporting congregation. I guess one
has to define what is meant by members. I don't think he bullied himself
through the legal areas, I imagine he studied that and made clever use of
the law. He certainly bullied his way through that scenario with the
congregation though, and anyone who did catch on either left, or were
eliminated.
There is a difference between board members and church members. The
church had a written set of governing laws, that difference would be
stated there. Gene Scott said he memorized the whole book of Faith
Center's operating laws before he met with the board. I heard him say
that back in the days of paying of the families.. something he maintained
he was not obligated to do, as some of them wanted an immediate cash pay
off.
It's been so long ago that happened, and so long ago since I've even
thought of the words 'founding charter' or 'by laws', that the whole area
is practically as foreign to me as though I had never read anything about
it.
gypsi...@gmail.com
On Oct 18, 6:38 pm, "rpbc" <spicer_17@protected .com> wrote:
> Studio wrote: rpbc,Is there a difference between
>
> Board Members and Church Members?
>
> For doc to say, "there are no members of
> this church", was he not overstepping his
> boundry? Did he not just bully his way through
> that scenario and hope nobody caught on.
>
> rpbc wrote: It seems to me he overstepped his boundry by saying there areno members of this church... owing the fact that the commonly held
> definition of a church includes a supporting congregation. I guess one
> has to define what is meant by members. I don't think he bullied himself
> through the legal areas, I imagine he studied that and made clever use of
> the law. He certainly bullied his way through that scenario with the
> congregation though, and anyone who did catch on either left, or were
> eliminated.
>
> There is a difference between board members and church members. The
> church had a written set of governing laws, that difference would be
> stated there. Gene Scott said he memorized the whole book of Faith
> Center's operating laws before he met with the board. I heard him say
> that back in the days of paying of the families.. something he maintained
> he was not obligated to do, as some of them wanted an immediate cash pay
> off.
>
> It's been so long ago that happened, and so long ago since I've even
> thought of the words 'founding charter' or 'by laws', that the whole area
> is practically as foreign to me as though I had never read anything about
> it.
Mebbe my memory is faulty but I don't recall doc ever saying that his
church had no members. missy certainly did early on in her 'take over'
but, as I recall doc would present himself as one with the church and
we all shared in his victories (and defeats). Am I missing something
here?
WeatherMan
else this ministry is not your ministry”. He said that with his usual
growl and hiss he mustered up when talking about money, ownership and the
like. Well after he knew he was about untouchable.
Hay, unless someone can shed otherwise, do you realize that without tax
receipts and if you tossed all your canceled checks into the trash and
never made a tax claim without receipts even, that as a whole it would
hamper any class action motions? That is considering the whole
congregation did that over the years.
rpbc
that his
church had no members. missy certainly did early on in her 'take over'
but, as I recall doc would present himself as one with the church and
we all shared in his victories (and defeats). Am I missing something
here?
WM wrote: He did say “this network is not your network. And Ill tell you
rpbc wrote: Gypsie.. I don't recall Doc ever saying that 'this' church
has no members. I do recall him saying this is not your church, and this
is not your network.. things like that. He might have been saying this
church has no members in his own way, but not in such a direct way
(directly with Melissa, why she said it?) that would impact church goers
directly. Most people who attended, or watched regularly, and supported
would have consider themselves to be members and those words would fall
hard on their ears, and I think Doc knew that. What he was really saying,
besides stating as pastor he was responsible for 'our' souls and would
give account to God for the stewardship, when he said.. this is not your
network, this is not your church, is probably revealed in the details of
how he structured and managed it. Guess that will come out in court if it
takes that turn. There's a lot of smoke around here at present, but so far
no flames.
damnthetorpedos
some decision-making own shareholder
rights. The board is the named officers,
with certain duties under California laws
for corporations.
Until Melissa snarled that the "church" has
no members, Gene's statements about it
not being your church sounded like he was
saying that he's the boss and you're not.
He runs things, you don't. You don't
personally own it.
What he didn't say is that it isn't a public
church that no one personally owns, but
that he took over ownership and excluded
the contributors and congregation.
Something's fishy about that.
If all the income payable to Gene Scott
and Melissa Scott doesn't belong to the
exempt church, then it should be
treated as their personal income. If
they want to show on their tax returns
that they gave it all to the church, their
returns could show the tax deduction
and the church, with tax id#, to which
they gave it.
Or they could not take the deduction, as
they teach on spiritual bases, and pay
the income tax on the income less other
deductions, without the tax benefit
of giving it all to the church, like they
tell everyone else to do.
The odds Gene or Melissa Scott have
done that? About as high as hell
freezing over soon.
bluetits
Stan & Ethel were original Faith Center members, weren't they? Or is
that just an assumption I've always made? Anyone know?
bluetits writes:
I believe they were original members.
rpbc
rpbc wrote: I do believe I heard Gene Scott that on several occasions...
usually referring to Ethel as Dr. Price's daughter.
sarah...@yahoo.com
Papillon arose to the statement:
"Sounds like a real Pandora's box. I would rather fight for Barbi's
right to teach heretical doctrine to her member-less church than aid
the government in violating the freedom of religion clause of the first
amendment."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sd writes:
one may have hoped that posts aligned with this course of thought might
have ended this discussion- wishing for it to just evaporate-
but...apparently not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Highwire adds:
"I agree. I really don't have a problem with doc or melissa moving
money
throughout their organizations.
The problem is first he lied all the years when he would brag he was
different from teleevanglists because he pastored a "chuch" that could
vote him out. Second by demanding checks be made out to him, he was
responsible for income taxes as an individual."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sd asks:
is this a case then of : do the - alleged- (and i say so strongly,
ALLEGED) ends justify the means?
and -if that be the case- which argument be stronger in one's own
heart-of-hearts?
Voice of History, if you are not a lawyer, you do lean towards offering
legal advice...yet, none that cannot be found in searching the
internet. i know, for i have done this myself at one time. but, an
advisor of law does not good council necessarily make.
who can truly know the heart of a man, BUT GOD? who can CLEARLY read
the intent, or understand his train of thought? ...and...if he is in
err, who can stand to correct him, when only ONE fully knows the make
up of that man? ...even beyond the man, himself? it seems that we have
all strayed so far from The Perfect One, that we have ALL become wise
in our own eyes. i speak from experience...look where mine own "good
intentions" got me. yet, we are to discern the spirits...without
judging........O!God!...........help us ALL!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VOH, you state:
>snip<
"Melissa Scott did not inherit any
assets from Faith Center as Faith Center cannot leave a will. If Faith
Center "dies," its assets are given to public purposes, not Melissa
Scott. "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sd continuing:
.....and so........your point is...??? your point is what? and your
meaning? "if Faith Center DIES"?....Faith Center, aka: King's House
One, correct? and "dies"....meaning...what exactly? and, why does this
concern you?...thus, we go to motive......
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
continuing VOH statement:
"The other assets-- i.e., the University Network, the Cathedral, Bible
collection, Sunset Mauseleum in Northern California, ranches in
California, San Marino mansion, Oroville family home, copyrights,
artwork,
Delores Press, horses and farms, limousine service, businesses with Ed
Masry, life insurance proceeds, and personal checking and savings and
investments -- are not church property, technically speaking; rather,
they
are owned by profit-making, tax-paying individuals and entities. These
assets can be passed at death by means of succession, such as a will, a
trust, stock, and contract. "-----------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sd asks again:
and this concerns you....again....why?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VOH's ending paragraph:
" They can be passed at death relatively but
not entirely free of supervision of the IRS, FTB, Attorney General, and
other law enforcement agencies, which exist for the protection of the
tithing public."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------sd
writes:
"history" here, is indeed introduced: all the agencies, in fact, that
had to door of The Secret Place of The Most High God slammed right in
their faces......and do not think they have forgotten Dr. Gene
Scott!....neither his small band of soldiers helping him to slam it.
had we been a larger army, they'd not have appeared so weak.....BUT GOD
HIMSELF stood beside us in each battle. the cause was for the freedom
of sanctified worship without the monitoring, governing, or molestation
of the outside forces of the world covered in the guise of,
"protection".
surely, you must be aware that every government agency which gains a
foothold in our constitutional rights....thus, not only ending to
violate them, but to extinguish them...comes in fleece of a sheep? but,
to suggest that these would now LOVE to "open the books" of Dr. Gene
Scott....HA! let me re-phrase......."LOVE??" try "chomping at the
bit...drooling...foaming at the mouth...sharpening their teeth. is
every individual of these entities an "evil individual" per-say? heck
no! but, we're talking Spiritual Principalities here...anarchy...
rulers in high places....the UN-seen. (we here, ALL know what we're
talking of). insanity to the world, BUT GOD spoke in His Word of this
as REALITY.
our" mission" was ALWAYS to restrain the anti-christ and his
will...which is to silence the Gospel of The Lord, Jesus Christ.
it sounds as though, in the name of the "poor spiritual followers" who
were "duped in the whiles" of Dr. Gene Scott's ministry, that you come
inviting the very one's inside, who Doc led years of long and,
seemingly, never-ending battles to intentionally keep on the outside,
until his hands bled from barring the door to them.....or, so it seems
that is what you are doing? .......and humor then follows your posts?
....pray tell.....WHERE is the humor in the government freely opening
these "hidden books" and private records of Dr. Scott's ministry?
.....and, i ask, in reference to this being called a "Pandora's
Box".......i say it be more along the lines of lifting the very gates
of hell! does that statement give you a feeling of a sense of power?
...as in the example of "i am a christian, therefore, i cannot tell a
lie...therefore MY FAMILY IS HIDDEN IN THE BASEMENT...have at 'em,
gestapo!!!!!!!!!!!!"
let us not lose our own souls in the act of defending our rights to
secrecy concerning the things of God. they were Sacred then...and they
are Sacred now. it's HE we must give account to...and we shall.
so...who then else shall we fear?
so, if you be sincere, VOH...if you are opposed to how things are being
handled...have been handled...or fear as to how they shall be continued
to be handled....then, take heart:
remember the Scripture which says: Acts 5:
38-And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone:
for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39-But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found
even to fight against God.
VOH, if you truly ARE a "voice of history"...then you'll recall the
statement: I have the right to hide nothing. (do you recall this?)
Does a certain case having been taken all the way up to the U.S.
Supreme Court, and then having been presented on a little 3x5 card and
then dismissed as a "religious issue", ring a bell for you? (does it?)
Do the words "Petris Bill" bring anything to remembrance? (?)
and EVERY other church in America...EVERY Pastor...every congregant
from EVERY denomination which profited from all those "phrase
words".....like Americans everywhere that profited from every soldier
in every war....does ANYONE REMEMBER THESE "phrases/ words?"
how about "NO! NO! We won't show!"......and DO NOT
..(please)......bring insult to injury for the sake of unnecessary
black-humor, in mentioning "the monkey band" unless you clearly
understood the blood, sweat, tears, emotions, and seriousness of the
situation, in which the freedom and safety, and rights of our
children's children were included. we see Doc "the clown", beating a
bunch of little stuffed monkeys over the head............SEE THE
UNSEEN...and greatly respect and appreciate it -ESPECIALLY if you were
NOT there....because a good fight was fought FOR YOU.
if you, VOH, do NOT recall ALL of these "phrases", then you are a
counterfeit voice of true history in the ministry of Dr. gene scott, as
well as the church world at large.
if you DO, however, then we are back to motive ...due to the suggestion
of bringing in government officials to "solve" the problems you so
freely speak of.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VOH writes:
"Gene Scott would also tell his spiritual sons not to be afraid of
Melissa
Scott and her attorneys, particularly Patty Glazer. They are not above
the law."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sd replies:
....and who is it that you refer to as Gene Scott's "spiritual sons" in
this matter? Absaloms?
Gene Scott, as you refer to him, (on a level of a "friendly" first-name
basis,i take it?) trusted his wife enough to see that his "wishes" were
carried out. but still, the call for those wishes to be brought about
and made public ...in probate? ...........ever hear the saying, "BE
CAREFUL what you wish for?"
O, the post containing Luther's complaint nailed to the door? sounded
great...thrown in with all the rest...just imagining the sound of that
"tap, tap, tap" is enough to inspire a reformation....like the "tap,
tap, tap" of the same in Noah's day in the construction of an
ark....but it's difficult to differentiate the same sound of a "tap,
tap, tap" which also resounded coming from the house of one,
Haman....but i'll tell you one thing for CERTAIN...there remains a
"tap,tap,tap" which echoes in the Eternals, which centered in a place
where a Cross was erected and Hands and Feet were pierced with a "tap,
tap tap, tap"...and for THAT tapping sound, let us not forget what it
is that we are to be fighting FOR, and HOW we are fighting for
it....because MOST ASSUREDLY, God has not forgotten.
on that note, i've only to say, for those who "want their money
back"??? 'TAINT "your" money. Dr. Gene Scott told us all, we paid to
keep him talking, and to pay for what we thought the teaching was
worth, and as long as he was talking, not to worry about where the
money was going....did he not? after that, he made it CLEAR that if he
wished to turn it into rubber-nickels and drop it to the bottom of the
ocean, he could. He said if we did not understand that premise,
neither agree to that, not to send a dime. grant it, afterwards, he may
have added to what was first taught, but never detracted from the first
statement. God says to give in secret.........the money, in question,
which remains NO business of the IRS -or ANY MAN- was not given to
"Gene Scott"...it was given -back-to God. ...for, pray tell me, what
ANY of us ever gave to God that isn't already His? Psalm 24:1
The earth is the LORD's, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they
that dwell therein. (that pretty much covers EVERYTHING). the
government might see this issue differently, (if you were to pursue
this issue) but that doesn't change the Truth of the matter.
....um....just for the record?...they were sheep....on Doc's pajamas.
not ducks.
....and Mom Scott, she never "chose" between her children: the Angel
of The Lord went over TO take Doc. upon seeing this, she exclaimed,
with a Mother's heart, "Oh, no, Lord! Don't take Gene!"...with that,
the Angel turned, walked over to the baby, and took it instead. i'm
certain she had to be speechless at that point. what would ANY of us
do? the Glory of God in her testimony (which i don't believe she ever
realized) is what a comfort this story is to so many women who have
lost their children and never had this vision to see the unseen in this
realm. God is Good.
He is worthy of PRAISE, HONOR, and GLORY!! People, take heart, our God
IS in control........let us fight the Good fight of Faith..but let us
strive to do it according to the leading of His Holy Spirit. He is NOT
the author of confusion, neither has He given us the spirit of
FEAR......but of Peace, Love, and a sound mind. All things, according
to His Will, shall come to pass in due season, for Jesus said of
Himself, "I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT
PREVAIL AGAINST IT"...............................PERIOD.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rpbc:(referring to Doc)
>snip<
....."as pastor he was responsible for 'our' souls and would
give account to God for the stewardship, ........"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sd writes:
true. good, bad, or indifferent. true.
i gotta say, in Doc's defence, there's alot of talk about all his
blowtorching....but not alot about the times he COULD have blowtorched,
but didn't.
and everybody here has to agree on ONE thing....when the camera pans
the audience??? nobody looks like they are skeletal and starving to
death. and that's not a joke, it's true.
c'mon guys...can everybody just.........settle down........maybe just a
bit?
ya know, if you think about it, we'd ALL sound like asses if we ended
every sentence in , "unlike me..." (as in, "Joe Blow did thus and
so...unlike ME !!")...or....which i never would (like "Joe Blow did
thus and so.....which I NEVER would THINK of
doing!!")......................ya know? ....ya know?
ALL have sinned and come short of The Glory of God.
Papillon
gypsi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Mebbe my memory is faulty but I don't recall doc ever saying that his
> church had no members. missy certainly did early on in her 'take over'
> but, as I recall doc would present himself as one with the church and
> we all shared in his victories (and defeats). Am I missing something
> here?
I can't speak to the later years, but during the time I was involved I
never heard Doc say that the church had no members. But Doc wasn't
stupid enough to blurt out something like that. Barbi, on the other
hand, can't control her tongue and has proven to be her own worst enemy.
gypsi...@gmail.com
On Oct 19, 12:15 am, "Papillon" <papillon_so...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> gypsiel...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Mebbe my memory is faulty but I don't recall doc ever saying that his
> > church had no members. missy certainly did early on in her 'take over'
> > but, as I recall doc would present himself as one with the church and
> > we all shared in his victories (and defeats). Am I missing something
> > here?I can't speak to the later years, but during the time I was involved I
> never heard Doc say that the church had no members. But Doc wasn't
> stupid enough to blurt out something like that. Barbi, on the other
> hand, can't control her tongue and has proven to be her own worst enemy.
I agree Papi. The no members statement from missy was a revelation to
me. In fact I was shocked to hear her say it. doc was such a good
wordmaster that he may well have said it in veiled words that most of
us just didn't hear or didn't connect the dots at that time.
gypsi...@gmail.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------sd writes:one may have hoped that posts aligned with this course of thought might
> have ended this discussion- wishing for it to just evaporate-
> but...apparently not.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Highwire adds:
> "I agree. I really don't have a problem with doc or melissa moving
> money
> throughout their organizations.
>
> The problem is first he lied all the years when he would brag he was
> different from teleevanglists because he pastored a "chuch" that could
> vote him out. Second by demanding checks be made out to him, he was
> responsible for income taxes as an individual."
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> sd asks:
> is this a case then of : do the - alleged- (and i say so strongly,
> ALLEGED) ends justify the means?
> and -if that be the case- which argument be stronger in one's own
> heart-of-hearts?
>
> Voice of History, if you are not a lawyer, you do lean towards offering
> legal advice...yet, none that cannot be found in searching the
> internet. i know, for i have done this myself at one time. but, an
> advisor of law does not good council necessarily make.
>
> who can truly know the heart of a man, BUT GOD? who can CLEARLY read
> the intent, or understand his train of thought? ...and...if he is in
> err, who can stand to correct him, when only ONE fully knows the make
> up of that man? ...even beyond the man, himself? it seems that we have
> all strayed so far from The Perfect One, that we have ALL become wise
> in our own eyes. i speak from experience...look where mine own "good
> intentions" got me. yet, we are to discern the spirits...without
> judging........O!God!...........help us ALL!
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> VOH, you state:>snip<"Melissa Scott did not inherit any
> assets from Faith Center as Faith Center cannot leave a will. If Faith
>
> Center "dies," its assets are given to public purposes, not Melissa
> Scott. "
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> sd continuing:
> .....and so........your point is...??? your point is what? and your
> meaning? "if Faith Center DIES"?....Faith Center, aka: King's House
> One, correct? and "dies"....meaning...what exactly? and, why does this
> concern you?...thus, we go to motive......
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> continuing VOH statement:
> "The other assets-- i.e., the University Network, the Cathedral, Bible
> collection, Sunset Mauseleum in Northern California, ranches in
> California, San Marino mansion, Oroville family home, copyrights,
> artwork,
> Delores Press, horses and farms, limousine service, businesses with Ed
> Masry, life insurance proceeds, and personal checking and savings and
> investments -- are not church property, technically speaking; rather,
> they
> are owned by profit-making, tax-paying individuals and entities. These
>
> assets can be passed at death by means of succession, such as a will, a
>
> trust, stock, and contract. "-----------
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> sd asks again:
> and this concerns you....again....why?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> VOH's ending paragraph:
> " They can be passed at death relatively but
> not entirely free of supervision of the IRS, FTB, Attorney General, and
>
> other law enforcement agencies, which exist for the protection of the
> tithing public."
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------sd
> bunch of little stuffed monkeys over ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
gypsie: sdtr, you have the docisms down pretty well. I'm surprised that
you are not assisting your pastor (or are you??). May I remind you that
AFGS is a public forum and is not limited to my POV or yours. You
obviously know this hence your sermon above.
Further AFGS is actively engaged in discussions of all facets of planet
scott, in fact this NG has done so for some years neow. Open
discussion is a very healthy thing to do. Also represented by your
ability to post your sermon above. Do you feel better neow?
jocko
Once fighting for religious freedoms for churches
through the Petris bill, and civil freedoms, some
contend that Gene Scott departed from serving
as a pastor, the shepherd of souls.
He also chose to wear the hat of shrewd, ruthless
businessman C.E.O. and dictator over the group
he governed. In those arenas his enterprise
was not a church entitled to religious protections.
At those times of departure, some here take
issue with him pulling the religious church
cloak over his profit-making businesses,
unfair treatment of his workers and avoidance
of laws, both spiritual and temporal. Some
argue that is a misuse of the religious veil
and seem to have some valid points.
It's discernment, sarahsdghtr. He was a man,
subject to the follies of men, including the
love of money and power at the expense
of those who helped build his success.
He is subject to the same consequences
of other men who follow those paths.
Many a great man has accomplished much
for what is right and in the stream of God's
will, while at the same time abuse others.
Do they feel so righteous to be above
human decency, fairness and the laws of
the land?
Witness the misconduct of some priests
and the statistics on pastors and domestic
violence. How can one go from the religious
robes of a holy service to assault children
and wives? Is it the strong taking advantage
of the trusting weak?
A religious title is not a blanket for secrecy
and protection to be misused in other
walks of life.
IMHO, voice-of-history is not a lawyer, but
has looked into improprieties. Coupled with
longstanding misplaced trust in Gene Scott,
voh has figured a few things out to see
through the tarnished shroud.
Sometimes government involvement is a
good thing, and occurs when enough is enough.
Perhaps it is the hand of God working
through the public servant of governance.
Where in the bible does Christ teach to
avoid or break temporal laws, or to
resist and detest all governmental intervention?
bluetits
Stan & Ethel were original Faith Center members, weren't they? Or is
that just an assumption I've always made? Anyone know?
bluetits wrote:
I believe they were original members.
rpbc wrote: I do believe I heard Gene Scott that on several occasions...
usually referring to Ethel as Dr. Price's daughter.
bluetits agrees:
Me too.
Obrien
> gypsiel...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Mebbe my memory is faulty but I don't recall doc ever saying that his
> > church had no members. missy certainly did early on in her 'take
over'
> > but, as I recall doc would present himself as one with the church and
> > we all shared in his victories (and defeats). Am I missing something
> > here?I can't speak to the later years, but during the time I was
involved I
> never heard Doc say that the church had no members. But Doc wasn't
> stupid enough to blurt out something like that. Barbi, on the other
> hand, can't control her tongue and has proven to be her own worst
enemy.
Gypsieland wrote:
I agree Papi. The no members statement from missy was a revelation to
me. In fact I was shocked to hear her say it. doc was such a good
wordmaster that he may well have said it in veiled words that most of
us just didn't hear or didn't connect the dots at that time.
Obrien wrote:
Whether or not PMS dreamed up her "No Members" policy on her own, or on
the advice of Pasty Glazing--who can be certain?
Seemingly this bold "No Members" policy of PMS's is and attempt to cover
her little behind, allowing her to take two bites out of the same
forbidden fruit.
A. Pay for what the non-members think the teaching is worth.
B. Money is given freely in the form of donations.
I find it puzzling that a "non-member" is pressured to obtain a
"Kingshouse Number." Numbers indicate ownership/belonging.
In either case, paying for the teaching or donations, a paying "non-member
is entitled to a receipt and the appropriate legal tax-deduction.
rpbc
rpbc wrote: I thought in earlier posts you said you had never followed
Gene Scott's ministry and wasn't that familiar with him, only that you
occasionly watched on TV. Do I have you mixed with someone else? If not,
you seem to have much detailed information from years past that could only
come by years of close watching, or involvement. Just wondering.
matt2442
matt2442:
I thought that Stan was actually one of the board members that voted
Dr. Scott in.
matt2442
> rpbc wrote: I thought in earlier posts you said you had never followed
> Gene Scott's ministry and wasn't that familiar with him, only that you
> occasionly watched on TV. Do I have you mixed with someone else? If not,
> you seem to have much detailed information from years past that could only
> come by years of close watching, or involvement. Just wondering.
matt2442:
here's one place:
42 From: sarahsdg...@yahoo.com - view profile
Date: Wed, Aug 2 2006 5:22 pm
Email: sarahsdg...@yahoo.com
Groups: alt.fan.gene-scott
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ok gypsie, ( sigh!) i see you don't like to be ignored, so, i'm gonna
acknowlege you....OK?
you seem to insist on following me around on every post and i was
TRYING to be nice.
i'll try this AGAIN:
i am not a scott-bot,
not a flying monkey,
not a scottie.
not a mole.
not involved w/ the 1M pledge.
oh...and i'm not melissa either...
what else?....is there anything else?
damnthetorpedos
and a few others of the same ilk are deeply
involved in the defense of planet Scott.
They have in common the same flight to
"no one's perfect" "judge not ...." "it's for
God to judge". . "Gene taught me a lot"
. . .and questions " can you do better?"
"why is there so much hate?" .
As a last resort they revert to name-
calling and attacking the faith of anyone
who disagrees with Scott rules.
Casual observers? ..... my arse.
damnthetorpedos
C. There's the carrot to invest large amounts
of time and money to be a part of this church,
share in the secretes, partake in the money raising
victories, then . . . . it's all Melissa's and
if you don't like it, get the funk out.
H8N S8N
I'M NOT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT!
(with apologies to Herman Munster)
voice-of-history
Gene Scott did not launch himself from Oroville. He used Faith Center
Glendale to launch his television ministry. That was his plan, and he did
not reveal all his cards to the saints at Faith Center Glendale.
Gene Scott came with a promise to make Faith Center Glendale whole, and
the body of believers mortgaged their homes for the cause. They did not
mortgage their homes to launch Gene Scott's television career. They also
did not mortgage their homes to compete with Jan and Paul Crouch or Jim
and Tammy Baker. Gene Scott, however, did in fact compete with Paul and
Jan and Tammy and Jim for the same audience. He did, in fact, launch his
own TV ministry. He did, in fact, gradually destroy Faith Center Glendale
as a community church as he implemented his plans, and the mortgage money
was never returned, not to the Maria Holm family, not to anybody else.
Melissa Scott has now inherited that blood money and she has on her hands
the blood of the precious saints formerly of Faith Center Glendale. Faith
Center Glendale is no longer a community church; it is a television studio,
plain and simple; not for Faith Center Glendale, but for private interests
of Gene Scott and now Melissa Scott.
Importantly, Gene Scott did not pay one dime for using the name and
likeness of Faith Center Glendale, a 30-year sanctuary worth a most
valuable goodwill. Why, then, did Gene Scott preach that Faith Center
Glendale was $3 million in debt, when Gene Scott made millions more than
that sum from such goodwill. He used the Dr. Schock cameras, the Dr.
Schock audience, and the Dr. Schock platform. That's a steep price for
any humble church to pay.
It has been said that Gene Scott stepped on a lot of people as he launched
himself.
Even Willard Cantalon was borrowed without credit. For example, Willard
Cantalon came during the Dr. Schock era and painted on convas in front of
the audience; he was an avid student of Apostle Paul; and he was a noted
financial genius with connections reaching Brussels Belgium. He linked
Gene Scott with Faith Center Glendale because the word was out there that
Gene Scott was tired of being on the road, wanted to get grounded in one
place, and wanted to launch his ministry. In other words, Gene Scott
"came to town looking for uncommon people." After Willard Cantalon helped
Gene Scott get started, that was the end of him, and the end of the canvas
paintings for the body, and Mrs. Cantalon's piano recitals.
Gene Scott terminated Faith Center Glendale's education program, firing
the principal, Mrs. Bussinger, and teachers like Mr. Logan and ladies
Cole, Hoff, Robinson, and Garcia, and several others. Hatchet man Jim
Elliott, mouthpiece for Gene Scott, protected Gene Scott, and he was shut
out eventually.
Gene Scott was a man of learning and teaching and even wanted to establish
the Pauline Institute, yet he destroyed Faith Center Glendale's education
program. The kids, their parents, the teachers, and the principal never
knew Gene Scott would do such damage to them.
Sarah's daughter and others, pay attention, to such contradictions. There
are others. For example, keep the government out, but bring the flag into
the cathedral and the First Amendment also. Separate the state from the
church, but use the state courts to sue. Keep the state out, but bring
the State Bar into the cathedral to stand at the pulpit and threaten the
people with the California criminal code! And who licenses Patricia
Glaser to do that as general counsel? The "big bad government" of the
State Bar of California, of course.
Hide behind the First Amendment on religious freedom grounds, but deny the
people their freedom of speech and assembly to question Melissa Scott.
Keep the government out, but bring Mayor Bradley, Willie Brown, and other
political figures to the assembly.
Cut and paste Gene Scott's messages in order to obey the FCC, only to
infuse the FCC into the teaching. Yes, the FCC now rules Gene Scott's
teaching, not the Holy Spirit.
First Amendment? It protects the weak from the strong. It protects the
minority from the majority. Importantly, here, it protects the critics of
Melissa Scott.
The Word is not going out because the faith message from Faith Center
Glendale is not going out.
voice-of-history
is keeping the government out of the faith. That the people should rather
Melissa Scott have the money than surrender to the government. Melissa
Scott is an admitted agent for the FCC, censoring Gene Scott's classic
messages, in total obedience to the FCC. And what that means, also, is
that the money raised by Melissa Scott's Secret #1 is going straight to
promote government censorship. Melissa Scott is cutting and pasting Gene
Scott's messages blaming the networks; in fact, Melissa Scott is afraid of
the FCC; she is not a fighter, and not a leader of fighters to protect the
message of faith from the FCC. Melissa Scott says Gene Scott's ministry
has no partners. It does now. Government censorship. And taking the
archives off the internet is also to please the FCC. What should be if
the IRS complained about Gene Scott's message of faith? Melissa Scott
uses her lawyers to fight the saints, not the government.
PhilosopherGuy
enumerate here voh are important examples,
and ones not previously pointed out here.
It is especially hippocritical to have
the American flag as the cathedral
back drop, and Melissa having taken
many steps to embrace the USA as her
own country, while blasting the American
government and avoiding its laws voted
in by its citizens.
Maybe Melissa should take her show to
another country where she likes the
government and laws better.
DP
wrote:
VOH, thanks for the interesting history of Faith Center Glendale.
Wasn't Joe Baumgartner also involved in bringing Gene Scott to Faith
Center, or is that just how Scott told it? I haven't heard of Mr. and
Mrs. Cantalon before.
Did Gene Scott send in Jim Elliott to actually carry out the firings at
Faith Center Christian School? Was Jim on Rev. Schock's staff or did he
arrive with Scott?
-DP
Papillon
You've really went off the deep end. Come back to reality.
Papillon
She's an American citizen now. She has the right to bitch all she
wants. From what I've seen it doesn't appear that she is capable of
much else.
gypsi...@gmail.com
On Oct 20, 5:43 am, "voice-of-history" <for...@nospam.adelphia.net>
wrote:
RE: " Melissa Scott is an admitted agent for the FCC, censoring Gene
Scott's classic messages, in total obedience to the FCC. And what
that means, also, is
that the money raised by Melissa Scott's Secret #1 is going straight to
promote government censorship."
gypsie: Altho' I can agree with you when doc is used as a sound byte or
talking head to reinforce the good cop/bad cop routine for the flock.
How do you come to this conclusion re the FCC/govt? How is reformatting
doc's messages to formats that are usable in today's technoloogy
censorship?