Where It All Went Wrong
MHirtes
Journey To The Center Of Mark Merlino
Author: Computolio
When one looks at the tremendous mess furries have made of not only
themselves but a small chunk of Western culture (to say nothing of the
internet), the idea of this disaster having occurred even partially by
design is difficult to fathom. The "furry sub-culture" is one of the
great unsung geek tragedies of the Western world, utterly destroying,
ruining and ass-raping everything it touches.
After all, nobody sane could have actually WANTED TO CREATE a safe haven
for people such as Dennis Falk, Sarah Wheeler, Kinberliegh Ann Keister,
Bart "Nekobe" Bakovets, Karl "Xydexx" Jorgensen, every single
alt.lifestyle.furry poster and whoever the fuck Kajima Frostfang is to
get together, right? A "community" for people who absolutely should
never get together under any circumstances lest they form a relatively
small but destructive cancer on the civilized world? Wrong.
Pictured: Mark Merlino and Rod O"Riley at one of their conventions,
fawning over the monstrosity that lies before them.
Many furries (especially the disgruntled ones) will tell you frankly
that Mark Merlino was the man who started the ball rolling, the man who
helped to nudge the furry scene around the U-bend into where it is
today. He's been with furrydumb for a long time; reportedly he boasts of
having helped create the modern furry culture. We might just give him
that credit. Before he came along, what we now call furry was scarcely
more than just some sort of primordial gaggle of geeks made up of the
fannish fallout of both Richard Adams and Robert Crumb. Back then they
called the object of their interest "funny animals". Relatively
speaking, these people were fucking saints compared with their modern
equivalents. After all, there was no internet in sight and that tiny,
tiny population of proto-furries could still be called a legitimate part
of geekdom - rather then the fetish-culture-in-denial we have to deal
with today. When Merlino met up with this group, he helped to change it
forever, molding it to fit his own image.
Although today he enjoys a moderately high standing within the group,
Merlino is not really the leader of the furries. The phenomenon is as
decentralized as the internet itself. No, Merlino is a boss, a kingpin,
a Mr. X. Like a videogame and possibly also action movie villain, he
sits behind the scenes, pulling strings and manipulating his inner
circle of end-level bosses close friends and lovers to effect some loose
control over a vast army of palette-swapped street punks furry
lifestylers.This is the story of his rise to power, as best we can
decipher it from approximately 10,583 useless Usnet posts and anyone
who'll tell us anything.
We've heard two slightly different versions of the beginning of the
story. Both say that he was part of (in fact the cofounder of) a general
animation fanclub in Texas. Both say he eventually parted with it and
went on to do his own thing. They differ as to why. One account says
that he was basically kicked from the club for being gay, another says
he quit when the club decided to place a bigger emphasis on Japanese
animation. It is said that his goal was to create "a gay-friendly
fandom", but in reality it's become more of an embarrassment for the gay
community.
Mark Merlino arrived on the furry scene (even though the term "furry"
had yet to be coined) during the early 1980s and started a couple of
fanzines. That in itself wasn't anything particularly special, but
within the space of a few short years he made a shocking and prophetic
move: the recruiting drive. He tried to "recruit" new people into the
"fandom" in a way that fitted him and his own interests. Of course, the
idea of recruiting anyone into a fandom is absurd, but that was only the
beginning of what Merlino had in mind. The purpose of these recruitment
packages was to attempt to get more people into the sexual side of
furrydumb, something which almost didn't exist back then. He wanted to
lure closeted fetishists out with handouts of early furry porn and the
promise of more( 1). This was done at various sci-fi gatherings; if (or
when) he was kicked out he'd just move on to the next. "Artwork" for
these handouts came from the pioneering furry "artists" of the era,
either Ken Sample or Dave Bryant. Other stuff (mostly non-pornographic,
but pressure was applied to take it as far as possible) was also
commissioned by Merlino and friends. Some of it went towards the
development of a furry-themed tabletop RPG called "Other Suns", which
Merlino and his friends worked on from time to time. (An overview of one
of it's descendants is here .) It featured convoluted rules lifted from
a few other games plus a space travel system with classic Derek Smart
levels of brokenness and needless complexity.
The "skilltaire" was some alien weasel cat thing Merlino came up with
for his own role-playing sessions or something.
Sometime during this time, Merlino bought a home in Southern California,
which he dubbed the "Prancing Skilltaire". It was often called a "fan
commune" and served as the home base for at least one early furry BBS
and several early gatherings. The new subculture Merlino was promoting
needed to increase in size or at least look bigger, and our best guess
is that conventions were seen as the best way to do this. After all,
they had always been an important part of Merlino's agenda. The first
"furry party" was said to have been organized by him, held at WesterCon
'86 in Sacramento, California. After a few of these, he expanded into
full-blown conventions with the beginning of "ConFurence" in 1989.
By the early 1990s, MUDs were beginning to take off among BBS and early
campus internet users. Furrydumb (and Merlino with it) snapped the idea
up as soon as it was practical; role-playing has seemingly always been a
cornerstone of the furry existence. When it emerged, FurryMUCK would
later take up most of the slack after the BBS-hosted stuff fell into
disuse. The people who set it up are another commune, and perhaps
another story. It may not have been the first or even the raunchiest,
but FurryMUCK survives like a monolith today, withstanding over a decade
of furry typefucking, sad hack attacks from frustrated banned users, and
a short-lived FBI investigation over "ageplay" (read: pedophilic
roleplaying( 2). Merlino would later use it as some sort of springboard
to infamy - offering, at one point, free admission to his furry
conventions to anyone who held an account on the game.
ConFurence continued on, with each gathering possessing a strong veneer
of civility and yet getting raunchier than the last. ConFurence 8 was
seen as the breaking point; after that many within furrydumb started
taking issue with it's organizers. Accounts of behavior that would
become all too familiar in a few short years accompanied a
larger-than-usual assortment of nasty rumors. In an " open letter ", an
attendee listed some of the various incidents he witnessed. Nowadays
most would by default associate furry conventions with all sorts of TO
TEH EXTREAM debauchery; the letter describes nothing that's really new.
In fact, most of the complaints are over things that seem tame, but some
of it stands out. Most notably, the infamous jizz-covered elevator wall(
3) that someone accidentally put his hand in, and that fact that people
were showing up who had no real idea what the gathering was about, who
were there "only for the parties and sex".
That quote is pivotal, in case you haven't noticed. Merlino, his
boyfriend Rod O' Riley and other co-conspirators are said to have
advertised the convention very heavily through alternate-lifestyle
venues. They were eager to attract new people into a group that was less
and less focused on talking animals and more and more focused on drawing
together the SO LONELY. The newly reinvented subculture drew in more and
more people who were shaky on the whole contact with other human beings
thing, people in desperate need of companionship. A very desperate many
got it at the cost of their heterosexuality; others who weren't
heterosexual to begin with usually also got it at the cost of their
dignity. The single-minded nature of furrydumb embraced anything,
anything at all as long as it had something to do with talking animals
and discouraged almost everything else unless it could be warped to suit
furry needs.
In a rare instance of furry self-regulation, Merlino himself would be
ousted from control of ConFurence in a wave of fan-political
dramaqueenery. The fallout from the Confurence 8 convention disaster
prompted many furries to attempt to clean up their act. Of course, since
any deviation from the furry party line of taking the concept of
tolerance and making a total fuckshit mockery of it is looked upon with
scorn, this created a small firestorm that helped ignite the much bigger
but even more pointless "Burned Fur" debacle. Merlino was pressured out
of heading up the convention, and allowed someone else to run it. (He
still helped fund it until it was recently disbanded.) Other conventions
sprang up in the aftermath, trying to woo people on either side of the
debate.
As one might expect, there's been more than a few disturbing rumors
floating around about the more personal aspects of Merlino's life. The
nastiest one is that he sat around Lion King MUCKs under one of his
various pseudonyms TROLLING FOR FRICKEN ANUS, as they say. Early teenage
anus, we might add. We're not sure whether or not anything really came
of it, nor are we entirely sure as to whether this info is accurate or
not. All we know is that it came from at least two different sources and
is as eerily believable as anything else we've heard about the man.
The bitch of it all is that in the end Mark Merlino got more or less
exactly what he wanted. Furrydumb is a clusterfuck of epic proportions
with an emphasis on providing the lonely/bi-desperate/confused/insane
furry fetishist with the possibility of a quick fuck( 4) and wank
material by the metric shitload. Merlino or his immediate partners
didn't really do it all on their own; the retard invasion would have
readily happened without them. However, he did see the course that
furrydumb was taking and did everything he could to nudge it farther on
in that direction. From the beginning, he was quite down with the idea
of thousands of weirdos just like him forming a land of make-believe
where they could feel like they were important, a place where they could
stop pretending that their emotional development hadn't stopped
somewhere before the onset of adolescence, a place where all inhibitions
disappeared, a place where the "hyooman" world was wrong and the "furs"
were right. Good for him and his buddies, but it's unbelievably annoying
for the rest of us, ultimately damaging for it's participants and a
whole new dimension of sickening to watch.
1. If ANYONE has any copies of any text portions of these so-called
"recruitment packets", and other similar material Merlino is said to
have produced, PLEASE let us know.
2. Let me describe briefly what happened:
On both Tapestries and FurryMUCK, "ageplay" areas had been in existence
for quite a while where the CubCentral crowd was allowed to flourish.
This roleplaying of pedophilic acts, coupled with the fact that most
people cybering on these games are underage anyway, became the basis for
a very short-lived FBI inquiry. The Feds didn't really do anything -
there wasn't much they could do. They were only following the online
activities of one person and never got very far before giving up. They
did call a lot of people, however, and anyone running a game that was
even tangentially furry-related got quite a scare. There's more of
course, but like many things that come up in these footnotes, the
subject needs to be fleshed out in a future article on furry
roleplaying.
3. We refer the doubters who continue to insist that the substance in
question was mayo to this newsgroup post :"There was a situation in an
elevator Saturday evening, when I was taking some important guests back
to my room for business. We were discussing said business in the
elevator on our way up to the room when one of the gentlement with me
leaned back against the wall, as most people do, when he found his side
and pants covered in SEMEN!"
4. That is, of course, provided that his/her/it's standards are
especially low.
Martin Skunk
news:hts-EC6539.1...@news.central.cox.net...
> Just to keep you goons from eating up CYD's bandwidth:
>
> Journey To The Center Of Mark Merlino
>
> Author: Computolio
This is an entertaining reading and everything, but I miss the bibliography.
Could you add a few links? :)
---Martin Skunk
Mike and Carole
(Useless crap deleted)
Mike, are you off your meds or something? For real. Why have you become so
pro-active lately denouncing furry fandom?
I applaud activism, but put it toward your favorite local political
candidate or something where YOU can make a difference.
Carole and I publish a lot of furry comics and arrange for good press
occasionally for the fandom, but I have no illusions that I can change
people's minds on a large scale. But I try.
But we EMBRACE the fandom and all it's warts. It does great charity work
Not just IN THE ZONE or the SKUNKWORKS benefit book, but EVERY furry con
benefits an animal charity. Think of that. 2000 people attend Anthrocon,
and money goes to help animals. I don't have access to the exact records and
how it goes, but artists and writers and other creators donate their time
and talent to raise money.
Now once, I heard a dealer complain about that money going to the charity
rather than their table in the dealer's room.
Shame on that person. Sure, sales haven't been great, but the money that
goes to those charities saves animal lives and many time benefits people as
well. Even if it's nothing but a good feeling.
You know, I didn't see a word anywhere in that diatribe about Merlino and
O'Riley starting the caberet at CF to raise money for charity. There's at
least one dialysis machine paid for by that idea.
Do your research first, or admit you have no idea of what you are referring
to.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Mike, you have a boundless energy for stirring up things. That's activism.
Are you a Democrat or a Republican? Use that energy THERE. At least you
would claim to belong to them, whereas you don't with us.
Fight for Greenpeace, Affirmative Action, the Girl Scouts, ANYTHING! They
might appreciate your diatribes.
It's much like standing in a Titanic rowboat and yelling "Why don't you
people learn to SWIM?"
You know the old story about the family members fighting, and then uniting
when an outsider intervenes.
And you call yourself an outsider, so don't expect any of US to listen.
Mike
WhiteFire
something for the other readers here who may not have been exposed to
him enough yet.
MHirtes wrote:
> 2. Let me describe briefly what happened:
>
> On both Tapestries and FurryMUCK, "ageplay" areas had been in existence
> for quite a while where the CubCentral crowd was allowed to flourish.
> This roleplaying of pedophilic acts, coupled with the fact that most
> people cybering on these games are underage anyway, became the basis for
> a very short-lived FBI inquiry.
Ok, just so everyone knows, people are required to fill out an age
statement on Tapestries MUCK stating that they are 18 years of age or
older. Those we find lieing, we nuke off the system ASAP.
> The Feds didn't really do anything -
> there wasn't much they could do. They were only following the online
> activities of one person and never got very far before giving up.
I have interacted with the FBI before, it is my experiance that they
will never tell you how far a case has proceded.
> They
> did call a lot of people, however, and anyone running a game that was
> even tangentially furry-related got quite a scare.
I did not get a call from the FBI about any such subject, and I
certanlly didn't have any cause to be afraid of anything.
BTW, this myth didn't originate with Hirtes, it came from a disgruntled
user of Tapestries that was toaded.
WhiteFire,
Head Wizard of Tapestries
Keeshah
>
> Just to keep you goons from eating up CYD's bandwidth:
>
> Journey To The Center Of Mark Merlino
>
> Author: Computolio
gotten a ghost writer,
to try to spread out your disinformation for you. Accully puts forth a
reasonable statement.
If you had seen all this happing WAY back when, Why didn't you to nip it
in the bud before the damage then?
to busy just sitting on your hands?
Anyone can set-up a Muck, Why haven't you set up a g-rated furry theme
muck that fits your standards?
eaiser to complain eh?
Anymore can do a furryCon, Why haven't you put on your own Furry con?
Have it be the example for eveyone.
Too much work?
Ah wait there was to be a rightwinger, east coast con.. they talked
about do it for years and years,
An then Trish Ny came along an kicked it into being, An to this day
there still very bitter of how she came along an stole THERE con. CFE 1
& 2
You are just envious of others success, because you have never had the
balls to ever take the risk to try.
So those people got to be the heros, and you are the unknowns..
This is still a country of majority rule. So this must be the try of
fandom the est. 40,000 world wide furry fans want for there fandom.. <i
think that number is high, but that is what the mainstream media says.>
Furry love it, or get the hell out and leave us alone already. Sheesh.
MHirtes
"Mike and Carole" <Shan...@cyberback.com> wrote:
> "MHirtes" <h...@justabunchofwords.com> wrote in message
> news:hts-EC6539.1...@news.central.cox.net...
>
> (Useless crap deleted)
>
> Mike, are you off your meds or something? For real. Why have you become so
> pro-active lately denouncing furry fandom?
>
> I applaud activism, but put it toward your favorite local political
> candidate or something where YOU can make a difference.
Are you saying that furry fandom has more "juice" than the GOP?
Well, it has lots of FLUIDS (just ask any elevator), but no juice.
Mike and Carole
> In article <10670410...@news.cyberback.com>,
> "Mike and Carole" <Shan...@cyberback.com> wrote:
>
> > "MHirtes" <h...@justabunchofwords.com> wrote in message
> > news:hts-EC6539.1...@news.central.cox.net...
> >
> > (Useless crap deleted)
> >
> > Mike, are you off your meds or something? For real. Why have you
become so
> > pro-active lately denouncing furry fandom?
> >
> > I applaud activism, but put it toward your favorite local political
> > candidate or something where YOU can make a difference.
>
> Are you saying that furry fandom has more "juice" than the GOP?
>
No, I'm saying you don't claim to be one of us, so your activism here is a
waste of your energies.
Mike
Dave The Dancing Hyena
Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>This is still a country of majority rule.
No it's not.
The turnout at elections is on average, below 50%. ;o)
>fandom the est. 40,000 world wide furry fans
How did you come to that figure?
---
Sample
[1. "And at the gates the trumpets rang."]
[2. "This is my hour. Do you not know death when you see it? ... die now!"]
no one in particular
"Mike and Carole" <Shan...@cyberback.com> wrote in message
news:10670410...@news.cyberback.com...
(Read all the way through. Summation: "The right things done for the
wrong reasons and the wrong things done for the right reasons when added
up do not make up for not doing the right things for the right reasons
in the first place.")
I don't care if they bought someone a prosthetic heart, Mike. It
DOES NOT change the fact that furry fandom has more and more warts every
day and less and less skin underneath as people either leave or let the
warts cover them. Would a convention of NAMBLA members or Neo Nazis be
OKAY as long as it was only a small percentage who were the true
uber-assholes and the rest sort of reasonable, provided they raised
money for a charity? No, it wouldn't. Extreme example to get the concept
across for the cheap seats, but I think you understand.
Charitable work doesn't change furverts into anything else if they
continue to act like furverts. They're still as sad and pathetic as they
were before if they learn nothing from the act of charity. Sadly,
charitable tolerance is an all-purpose weapon to use for them in their
ongoing denial war against reality itself. Extend tolerance to the
intolerable and you screw yourself AND them when they end up going
nowhere in life and getting no closer to the happiness and relative
success they really want. Be nonviolent with a proven predator and
you're lunchmeat. Close an eye to a drug user and they will do drugs.
Sit in the highway and you WILL get run over. Certain things just happen
to follow, one thing to the next.
I have a problem with relying on a fandom of freaky fetishists and
their willfully ignorant passive-agressive defenders to cover a
charity's need. If that's the case, society itself has gone right down
hill. A dialysis machine is a matter of life and death and those are two
things that should NEVER be left to ANY fandom. I wouldn't trust stuffed
shirt fans of the Greek and Roman literature world to save a life or
keep someone from death, never mind furries. I don't care if it was you
and Carol, Sam Conway, and ten dozen others I know of who aren't freaks.
But NOT as representative of furry fandom, but as INDIVIDUALS AT LARGE.
If using the proceeds of a convention masking some extremely deep
dysfunctionalities embodied by some extremely messed up individuals
isn't cynical, what is? If I knew that dollar one of a charitable gift
to keep me alive in the hospital were gotten from such a thing, I'd tell
them to keep the money on two counts: first not wanting to encourage
them and second on not wanting to take them for a ride because it would
be insult on top of encouraging self-injury.
This is no different than the cynical artists who figure, "as long
as these turds are paying me, why not draw this sick stuff for them?"
That's the same line of reasoning used by pimps and drug dealers. You're
taking advantage of someone else's descent into self-destruction, NOT
helping them. So we save someone's life from the charity but we
encourage the further fucking up of the lives of a bunch of others. On
what grounds? Because the one needing the charity is worth the spiritual
and psychological destruction of those that have cynically been taken
advantage of? Because those being taken advantage of are less worthwhile
than the other one? That's just plain mean spirited and cynical right
there.
So now we come full circle to the inevitable denoument of furry
defense logic. Some *are* more worthwhile than others, that choice being
entirely arbitrary on the part of those doing the choosing, and we're
ready to say "who cares?" regarding those that are bringing disgrace
upon furry as long as we get something out of them like charitable gifts
or art commissions, or just being able to point and say, "at least I'm
not as fucked as that guy." When they offer nothing more whatsoever,
then they get the boot.
That simply would mean if Nekobe had Hardimans' drawing skills and
Schwartz's sense of humor, he'd have been tolerated to the point of
being made GoH at a con instead of banned. If Bondage Bob was the
creator of Shanda instead of you and Carol, he'd be a freaking demigod
of furry.
Even more so because when you have something the spoogemonkeys
crave, they redefine your behaviour from dysfunctional to avant garde.
That would make either of the above equivalent to God in the eyes of the
majority of furs. If you were to go furvert Mike, your credibility would
double overnight and you'd have a mountain of fans to slather you with
(false) affection and shield you from all criticism. What you'd have to
ask yourself is, "can I live with that?". Rhetorical and deeply
personal, but isn't it for all of us?
Even if I could write sex well, I WOULD NOT AS A RULE because I have
to deal with the effects that action would have outside my little world.
Sadly or happily, however you may see it, our actions have consequences
on others. I can't live with that. While it's pressure I am not
comfortable with, hearing that my comedy once upon a time saved someone
from the brink of a depressive collapse, is better than knowing someone
is still sleeping alone because they're settling for spooge I've written
for them to wank to. If we don't inspire others to better things that
are best for them by our works, we are doing our works solely for our
own selves and thus, why even do them out when in our minds, they amuse
enough?
(Sadly this points out that if Steve Gallaci, GOD FORBID, were to be
slipped a cocktail of drugs and turned into a raving psycho freak
extolling the virtues of screwing a pony, he'd be less acceptable than
if Doug Winger did as Winger is the spooge purveryor for wank fantasies
and Gallaci isn't. But he'd STILL be accepted.
Joe Blow from Oshkosh could be pure as the driven snow and have no
art or writing abilities and he'd be unaccepted by anyone except those
small minority of furries who actuall care about someone other than
themselves without expecting something tangible in return. But if he
drew pics of big titted mice with three foot dicks, he could wank on a
Winnie the Pooh stuffie, photograph the act in sequence, and sell it on
Furbid and STILL have furs at large shielding him from criticism. If he
merely drew hard sci-fi furries with their clothes on he'd be able to go
half as far and not reach the limit of furry tolerance of the
intolerable.
*For the record, I don't know of or believe Gallaci to be anything
but harmless and an excellent artist. I've not commissioned or received
a damn thing from him or anyone else before other than paying John
Barret to draw a quick one-off of my wife's character at AAC98, CLOTHED
you lurking pervs.*
Winger I believe to be if not a furry art equivalent of a drug
dealer, a manufacturer(or Johnny Appleseed with pot as it were given his
free scattering of posts on the fur* erotica group. Twenty story herms
splashing semen on office buildings once is one thing and humorous, a
thousand times, each time going into more technical or artistic detail,
is a sign of lack of careful thought not to mention common human taste.
It's over the top continuing straight down and though the fall won't
kill you, the sudden stop at the bottom is a butt kicker. Furries do
tend to dig holes continuously for those who give them their fix. At
that rate Winger et al will go straight through the Earth and continue
on into intergalactic space with their fanbase never getting that
they're mutually corrupting each other. It's almost Requiem For A Dream
in a strange way, but you don't want to see any furry artist involved in
that "ass to ass" scene. Go on, imagine it. I can think of MAYBE FOUR
I'd stand to watch, ALL real biolgical females and not boys wishing they
were.
I cut Hardiman slack because if you can't see the cynical humor in
his Skunkworks work, you need to revisit the concepts of sarcasm and
cynicism in school. Some of his more extreme pics are downright comedic
masterpieces. So some do get the concept of drawing a line and knowing
where "over the top" starts and ends, and some sadly do not.)
Well you may point out that NOT ALL FURS ARE FREAKS(at the top of
your lungs as some would and do), and true, they aren't all freaks. You
and Carol aren't Mike. I know a good number who aren't. Some I actually
respect and more than a few I'd take a bullet for. So you say, you can't
throw the baby out with the bathwater. Well, isn't that what is done
with furry critics?
No matter how vitriolic Mike Hirtes, StukaFox, or Hangdog ever
became (or me for that matter), they still had extremely salient points
that needed very desperately to be taken seriously regarding the furry
fandom. Instead, the baby, the bathwater, and the whole damn bathroom
were thrown in the trash. SOLELY for ONE reason and that is denial, and
SOLELY with ONE excuse to cover it and that was their drawbacks. i.e.,
the way some keep pulling "harem porn" out against Hirtes. Well I tried
to be tolerant and open minded till I felt by brain dripping out and
realized, there's a point here and it needs to be addressed.
(As a more extreme example, Adolph Hitler claiming that "zwei fügten
zwei müssen vier entsprechen hinzu" (or "two added to two must equal
four", pre Altavista Babelfish) doesn't make that one statement wrong,
doesn't make two plus two magically into 3.141592653... The message as
opposed to the messenger right? If you murder babies with a frying pan
and eat them with tartar sauce, you're still right when you claim that
humans require oxygen to survive even if we wish you had no oxygen
yourself.)
So if the drawbacks CAN'T eliminate the good or right of something
else, and that the message and not the messenger is the point, WHERE DO
WE DRAW THE LINE? (hint: intent) Well, we're taking moral equivocation
way too far if we don't see the difference between mere hobbyists and
the occasional spiritual nutball on the one paw and those who make not
only acceptance but practice of their lifestyles to be a referendum on
whether or not they have a right to exist and by extension whether or
not you are tolerant or the spiritual brother of a Klansman. There's a
difference between getting a chuckle at one of Hardiman's size queen
pics of the girls and earnestly desiring and/or commissioning a pic of
Don Karnage butt-raping Kit Cloudkicker. One is on the edge, the other
straight across it and off into space.
IOW, Mike, there's a world of difference between your exploration in
Shanda of various subjects still touchy to the everyday world, and
absolute total glorification of anything that is extreme or taboo simply
for the sake of pissing others off AND wrapping yourself in
superiority(furries think themselves inherently smarter and more
creative than so-called mundanes) and victimhood("society doesn't accept
me so I have to act up until I get noticed"). How does that help ANYONE
in the long term?
You've NEVER made Shanda on the edge for the sake of anything but
your own exploration of whatever thoughts you were following. HUGE
difference between that and many other works.
So, where to draw the line? I say we draw it at some level between
tolerance of the intolerable that only leads to downward spiraling
self-abuse and intolerance of hard questions regarding human society and
civilization for sincere philosophical reasons(as opposed to trendiness
or politics). You've already drawn that line in YOUR work. You can't be
not drawing it in the greater world of furry without risking yourself
becoming a quaint anachronism as the majority one day decides that
you're not extreme enough and the days of Curtises, Eddys, Gallacis, and
so on are only a distant memory and furry is irrevocably defined by all
or so many as to make them effectively all, as a sexual fetish and a not
very sightly one at that.
(If only furry obsession over sex translated into actual good fun
wholesome sex, furry wouldn't be so fucked up. Only furry has such a
huge number of avowed gay and bi people who by their own admission (in
the end) are virgins. An out and out swingers' con is better than ten
thousand furry cons claiming at the top of their lungs to be a clean
operation while a dozen hotel rooms get turned into orgies of sadly
unwholesome goings on. As least the swingers are able to deal with
interpersonal relationships like adults the majority of the time.
Furs dealing with relationships? RUNNING IN ABSOLUTE TERROR is the
average furs' way of dealing with relationships. Why do you think that
so few are ever in long term stable relationships of any kind never mind
married? You and Carol are the anti-furries by comparison. You're Ozzie
and Harriet to their impotent rendition of Ozzy Osbourne and fake tough
girl rendition of Sharon. It turns on their insanely wrong idea of what
a relationship is, Mike.
Canoodling in a hotel room once or ten thousand times online isn't a
relationship beyond *maybe* friendship of some kind. Turning the other
cheek to people who not only give you nothing tangible but actively
aggravate you and remaining a good natured conversational partner is far
and away closer and when they do the same for you priceless. Standing at
their side when the piper comes calling to be paid for their own actions
and seeing them through it is a relationship.
These are ALIEN concepts to 99.999% of furries by my reckoning. I
DARE all the Nekobe/Bondage Bob/etc. bashing witch hunters to truly,
honestly, in their heart of hearts, forgive them for everything they've
ever done and stop hating them and seeing them as inherently inferior to
themselves. Most can't and won't because they've a truly stunted small
heart and not yet grown up to the level of the average mundane they
villify similarly. Similarly, those calling Mike Hirtes "fatty" are
possesed of out and out hate from what I can see(more for themselves or
Mike is a psychological thesis waiting to happen) while Mike as far as I
can tell, deeply wishes furry hadn't crossed the line from tweaked to
freaked.
(How is it I can turn the other cheek and not beat the living shit
out of people who made death threats on my wife when I see them at
Anthrocon(and even invite them for a drink in the bar, ON ME), yet so
many others in this fandom can't love the transgressor as a person yet
still not accept their transgression? Lack of heart, lack of
differentiating between the sinner and the sin. Too full of their own
victimhood, pain, depression.
But it is a CHOICE to wallow in that over being bigger than that.
That choice is one our grandmothers used to challenge us to make, kids.
Why are we suddenly so justified in not forgiving, and behaving like one
on one bullies in a school yard and emotional heart stabbers online for
our own amusement? We're not, but people seem to believe they are
permanently justified in all things. So criticizing furry is not okay,
but backstabbing someone you've led to believe you love is okay? By
furry standards, yup.
It's like PCU with fringe fan-fetish groups, something I'm tempted
to do a small film of for my own amusement. I can see fursuiters as the
womynists dancing around in front of The Pit and a very popular artist
as the insane dean protecting the fringers in a cover of righteousness
while some older members try to find a way to knock that dean off the
top. Come to think of it, that's the basic rendition of Burned Fur
Versus Every Other Fur. I'd pay Matt Milam to write the script just to
piss off certain people.)
There's a world of difference between a loving gay couple and an
abuser molesting a boy. A world of difference between your average biker
and a 1%er with a rap sheet. A world of difference between so many
things. If we don't draw some lines, we're going to end up on the wrong
side of a line drawn by the wrong people.
One last concept on the same line is that if Neo Nazis ponied up the
money, you're taking advantage of manifest evil and rottenness.
Forgiving them their sins enough to not do so is on the level of Jesus
and Buddha and for most more emotional people a gray area worth
crossing. Like stealing money from drug dealers. But we're talking
exploitation of a non-evil, non-rotten group who don't deserve that any
more than what they've already done to themselves(you can argue that
people deserve what they do to themselves as a function of free will if
you like). Compassion says, forgive the sinner, but do not excuse the
sin. In other words, forgive the sick fetishist their tarnishing of
themselves and furrydom, but still refuse to accept their actions as
anything but intolerable.
By that, I can't see any normal amount of charity as being worth
what is done negatively to the whole scene and those who comprise it.
IOW, if Superman were to save Earth tomorrow but be into cub porn and
cyberstalking on mucks, his act would be right in saving the world and
no less good but that good act would not make his sick sidelines any
more acceptable or proper.
Lastly, too many are blind to the fact that there's tolerance out of
chartiable caring and tolerance as a cover for ones own fears. If we
refuse to draw a line in the sand between certain behaviours of the
problem furs and us because we're afraid we'll eventually be the one
under scrutiny like the domino system of the McCarthy era, then we WILL
become that through tolerance taken to extremes as the outer world more
and more solidly decides ALL furs or fans of the anthropomorphic genre
to be a bunch of sick whackos. (Much the way any liberal with any
intellectual points who makes excuses for twenty million plus dead
thanks to Soviet Communism instantly Godwins themselves as it were.)
It is a self fulfulling prophecy that the continuing string of media
exposure is proving all too well. Only furries would see their
acceptance of each other as morally superior despite the basically venal
nature of it(you're a star as long as you churn out spooge ever more
foul no matter how foul you may get yourself), only furries would think
themselves holier than thou for their tolerance of outlandish behaviours
which paint all of them as unholy in the extreme(so jonesing for
scat/vore/pedo furry content is holy? <Dennis Leary>"I don't fucking
think so!"</Dennis Leary>).
Do YOU want Shanda lumped in with Rebecca Cunningham doing Molly
with a dildo? We're long past the 70s where that MIGHT have been taken
as tongue-in-cheek humor by those questioning society's definitions of
sexuality and consent. Not now. They see it as sick and tragically so.
That's the way the outer world more and more sees furry and while you
may say that their opinion isn't important, the fact that they created
jet planes, pyramids, surgical stitches, and dialysis while the
comparatively sterile as the moon fandom of furry did not, says
otherwise. Their opinion actually is imporant and more often than not,
despite being awful tasting, has a message that can't be overriden by
the messenger's other attributes.
-Wayd Wolf, hating the acts and shaking my head for the poor actors...
P.S.
That means just because human society's history is one of bloodshed
and murder and war, doesn't make them any less right when they tell you
some things are just not good for you and will not help you. Making a
life-encompassing way out of a fetish for instance. To defend them
without condemning their behaviours is to inextricably link yourself to
them in the eyes of everyone else. I defend them personally but condem
their behaviours with no uncertain terms. That is the difference between
me and the co-dependent enablers that so many furries have become. I
care for what is happening to them. Blind defense of furrydom is not
caring. It's as guaranteed to end badly as blindly defending drug users.
Ilthuain
> "Mike and Carole" <Shan...@cyberback.com> wrote in message
> news:10670410...@news.cyberback.com...
>
> (Read all the way through. Summation: "The right things done for the
> wrong reasons and the wrong things done for the right reasons when added
> up do not make up for not doing the right things for the right reasons
> in the first place.")
It's fine the way it is. Calm down, big guy.
-Ilth
Is it so hard for guys to chill out? Jesus....
BR
> -Ilth
> Is it so hard for guys to chill out? Jesus....
[Jail scene with Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder strutting out.]
I'm cool. We're cool.
--
-- James Fenimore Cooper
The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes,
knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.
Ilthuain
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:08:34 +0000, Ilthuain wrote:
>
>
>>-Ilth
>>Is it so hard for guys to chill out? Jesus....
>
>
> [Jail scene with Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder strutting out.]
>
> I'm cool. We're cool.
>
Rad movie.
Peter Stoller
>
>> -Ilth
>> Is it so hard for guys to chill out? Jesus....
>
> [Jail scene with Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder strutting out.]
> I'm cool. We're cool.
"Thass right, we bad, we bad...ain't gonna take NO shit..."
Skytech
> I don't care if they bought someone a prosthetic heart, Mike. It
> DOES NOT change the fact that furry fandom has more and more warts
every
> day and less and less skin underneath as people either leave or let
the
> warts cover them. Would a convention of NAMBLA members or Neo Nazis
be
> OKAY as long as it was only a small percentage who were the true
> uber-assholes and the rest sort of reasonable, provided they raised
> money for a charity? No, it wouldn't. Extreme example to get the
concept
> across for the cheap seats, but I think you understand.
>
Oh okay, now we're no different than NAZIs! Talk about extremes! It
almost amazes me how furry fan haters ever inflate and create our
sins! Sounds like those accusations witchhunters, the original NAZIs,
and McCarthyites used to put an evil face on their victims. We've seen
it done against race, beliefs, and preferences. It's truely pathetic.
So when do the false imprisonments, bashings, and burnings commence?
--
Skytech
Skytech
> >This is still a country of majority rule.
>
> No it's not.
> The turnout at elections is on average, below 50%. ;o)
>
Then the Electoral decides who wins....
> >fandom the est. 40,000 world wide furry fans
>
> How did you come to that figure?
>
Uuuuh, I think we all raised our paws at the last meeting.
--
Skytech
Obvious Fake. Do Not Harvest.
>Oh okay, now we're no different than NAZIs! Talk about extremes! It
>almost amazes me how furry fan haters ever inflate and create our
>sins! Sounds like those accusations witchhunters, the original NAZIs,
>and McCarthyites used to put an evil face on their victims. We've seen
>it done against race, beliefs, and preferences. It's truely pathetic.
>
>So when do the false imprisonments, bashings, and burnings commence?
Everyone say it with me, now:
GODWIN'S LAW!
Thank you. :D
PS. Yeah, I know this thread won't stop here just because I did that....
********************************************************
If you want me to see your response, please post.
http://www.towerofbabel.com/antispam
http://members.hostedscripts.com/antispam.html
********************************************************
Wanderer
Wayd, correct me if I'm wrong, but you just made the following
incredibly-distorted comments:
1. "Would a convention of NAMBLA members or Neo Nazis be
OKAY as long as it was only a small percentage who were the true
uber-assholes and the rest sort of reasonable, provided they raised
money for a charity?"
A. You're saying that dressing up in costumes, buying artwork (of whatever
stripe) and socializing is equivalent to pedophilia and/or racism?
Enlighten me, clonebrother... how do they equate? Better, if cons like MFM
are that bad, why do the hotels love them so? It's certainly not millions
of dollars...
2. "I have a problem with relying on a fandom of freaky fetishists and
their willfully ignorant passive-agressive defenders to cover a
charity's need."
B. <cocks head> So... which one am I? And please remember you're talking
to someone who doesn't enjoy spooge art of any kind, preferably before you
reply... Likewise, the lady from Tiger Haven (MFM'01) was, at worst,
slightly unsettled. Not the response of someone who's just seen what you
keep accusing everyone in the fandom of, Wayd. Or are you saying that we,
by some undeserved miracle, just *happened* to draw the only person at Tiger
Haven who is genetically incapable of feeling shock?
3. "If using the proceeds of a convention masking some extremely deep
dysfunctionalities embodied by some extremely messed up individuals
isn't cynical, what is?"
C. You, fur one. You seem to think that the only reason furs socialize is
to be perverted... is that not cynical?
4. "If I knew that dollar one of a charitable gift
to keep me alive in the hospital were gotten from such a thing, I'd tell
them to keep the money on two counts: first not wanting to encourage
them and second on not wanting to take them for a ride because it would
be insult on top of encouraging self-injury."
D. So you're saying you'd die screaming in agony as your body drowned in
its own waste products... leave French a lonely widow... and effectively
commit suicide... if it was a member of fandom paying fur your dialysis? On
the one paw, that's incredibly selfish, deciding that French's love fur you
is so meaningless. On the other, you've just reminded a lot of us of the
old KKK members who wouldn't take black blood if they were dying... and
bigotry, dear clonebrother, is bigotry.
Also:
Bondage Bob was a schizophrenic off his meds.
Hirtes, Stuka and Hang were all abusive of others before they were dropped
from consideration.
And, finally, in accordance with Godwin's Law tradition, you just forfeited
your right to this debate. Remember: "The first one to bring up Nazis or
Hitler loses."
Yours quietly,
The caught-in-your-backblast,
(Think the LAW in Rambo II)
Wanderer
wand...@ticnet.com
"Where am I going? I don't quite know.
What does it matter *where* people go?
Down to the woods where the bluebells grow!
Anywhere! Anywhere! *I* don't know!"
-- a. a. milne
Keeshah
>
> Keeshah <Kee...@gbronline.com> shall never vanquished be until great
> Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>
> >This is still a country of majority rule.
>
> No it's not.
> The turnout at elections is on average, below 50%. ;o)
>
> >fandom the est. 40,000 world wide furry fans
>
> How did you come to that figure?
there last show on the furry freaks.
Matt Harpold
"Ilthuain" <tsonc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SnDmb.20059$mZ5.79342@attbi_s54...
The NAZIS and the MORAL RELATIVISTS and the LIBERALS and the VEGANS and the
FETISHISTS!
:D
I wonder if Wayd has bought a Golden Microphone yet!
-Matt/Turb
Matt Harpold
>
> Oh okay, now we're no different than NAZIs! Talk about extremes! It
> almost amazes me how furry fan haters ever inflate and create our
> sins! Sounds like those accusations witchhunters, the original NAZIs,
> and McCarthyites used to put an evil face on their victims. We've seen
> it done against race, beliefs, and preferences. It's truely pathetic.
>
> So when do the false imprisonments, bashings, and burnings commence?
Apparently, guys with bad taste and funny costumes equal hate crimes and
lynchings. YEAH! SWEET!
-Matt/Turb
Old Geezer
<h...@justabunchofwords.com> wrote:
> We've heard two slightly different versions of the beginning of the
> story. Both say that he was part of (in fact the cofounder of) a general
> animation fanclub in Texas. Both say he eventually parted with it and
> went on to do his own thing. They differ as to why. One account says
> that he was basically kicked from the club for being gay, another says
> he quit when the club decided to place a bigger emphasis on Japanese
> animation. It is said that his goal was to create "a gay-friendly
> fandom", but in reality it's become more of an embarrassment for the gay
> community.
A CORRECTION:
============
The Southern Californa-based Cartoon/Fantasy Organization (aka the
C/FO) was the original U.S.-based anime fanclub. The group was founded
by Fred Patten, Mark Merlino and other Los Angeles animation and anime
fans. From the group's inception hrough the mid-80s, Mark Merlino was
the Treasurer of the C/FO and the mascot of the C/FO was one of
Merlino's skiltaire furry-fetish characters (see Skiltaire.net). In
the late 1970s, Merlino was starting to organize Furry parties at cons
as well as encouraging fan artists to draw anthro characters
(particularly "sexy" ones). A number of the earliest proto-Furry fan
artists came from early anime fandom and were involved in the C/FO to
some extent: Ken Sample (the drawing on Skiltaire.net is a Sample
piece), Josh Quagmire, Jerry Collins, Shon Howell, for example.
The "Texas connection" is that as the C/FO grew in popularity, a number
of C/FO chapters sprung up in states across the U.S. in the early
through the late 1980s. The San Antonio chapter joined the C/FO in the
late 1980s and a few years later one of the San Antonio members (a fan
politico by the name of Randell Stuckey) spawned a particularl nasty
fan feud when he gained control of the presidency of the C/FO. I do
believe that lawsuits were filed and Stuckey's bid for power collapsed
and control of the C/FO eventually moved back to Los Angeles. There
might have been a few anthro fans who belonged to the San Antonio C/FO,
but that's the only connection between Merlino and Texas fandom.
Dave The Dancing Hyena
Birnam wood to high alt.fan.furry. hill shall come against him.
>And, finally, in accordance with Godwin's Law tradition, you just forfeited
>your right to this debate. Remember: "The first one to bring up Nazis or
>Hitler loses."
I've no idea where you got that versision from, but Godwins law simply
states that as a thread increases in length, the liklihood of hitler
and the Nazi's being mentiond approaches one.
IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT LOSEING THE DEBATE OR WINNING IT.
Of course, WAYD was spouting rubbish, thus he is liken unto a person
assulating a tank with a salami, yet merely mentioning the nazi's does
not make him loose automatically, just a silly arguement.
Peter Stoller
> A CORRECTION:
> From the group's inception hrough the mid-80s, Mark Merlino was
> the Treasurer of the C/FO and the mascot of the C/FO was one of
> Merlino's skiltaire furry-fetish characters (see Skiltaire.net). In
> the late 1970s, Merlino was starting to organize Furry parties at cons
> as well as encouraging fan artists to draw anthro characters
> (particularly "sexy" ones). A number of the earliest proto-Furry fan
> artists came from early anime fandom and were involved in the C/FO to
> some extent: Ken Sample (the drawing on Skiltaire.net is a Sample
> piece)
Fanta is a fetish character? That faerie-winged mustelid thing with no
discernable genetalia? Ken Sample drew her cute to be sure, but there's
nothing especially sexy about her. She's not quite a "Skiltaire", either,
though there's a close resemblance.
On the other hand, drawing sexy anthro characters is truly one of the things
that established furry art as something beyond funny animal cartooning.
Tamar
especially newbies, would even know who the guy is if it weren't for you
bitching about him like some ex lover that got dumped by the guy.
Grow up, geez.
"MHirtes" <h...@justabunchofwords.com> wrote in message
news:hts-EC6539.1...@news.central.cox.net...
Tamar
Why is it those who care the less about this 'fandom' can write a term paper
long post about it with more passion than a presidential candidate?
When are people going to realize that in the long run, none of this crap
really matters anyway. Its all about talking animals people.
Much more important things going on in the world. Turn on a tv to the news
ever now and then.
"no one in particular" <wayd...@nothotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bnet2i$sru$1...@raccoon.fur.com...
Tamar
> dysfunctionalities embodied by some extremely messed up individuals
> isn't cynical, what is?"
>
> C. You, fur one. You seem to think that the only reason furs socialize
is
> to be perverted... is that not cynical?
>
> 4. "If I knew that dollar one of a charitable gift
> to keep me alive in the hospital were gotten from such a thing, I'd tell
> them to keep the money on two counts: first not wanting to encourage
> them and second on not wanting to take them for a ride because it would
> be insult on top of encouraging self-injury."
>
> D. So you're saying you'd die screaming in agony as your body drowned in
> its own waste products... leave French a lonely widow... and effectively
> commit suicide... if it was a member of fandom paying fur your dialysis?
On
> the one paw, that's incredibly selfish, deciding that French's love fur
you
> is so meaningless. On the other, you've just reminded a lot of us of the
> old KKK members who wouldn't take black blood if they were dying... and
> bigotry, dear clonebrother, is bigotry.
>
> Also:
No, but maybe that does mean that the likes of perhaps him but definitely
Hirtes will get off of the biggest charity the US has, welfare, and stop
excepting the money of those furries that work and have their taxes
contribute to keeping him fat and on his ass all day long. My wallet just
felt a little heavier. Thanks guys.
Tamar
"Peter Stoller" <spe...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BBC14E87.2F7C%spe...@earthlink.net...
? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}
[...]
> A dialysis machine is a matter of life and death and those are two
> things that should NEVER be left to ANY fandom.
Hold on, your saying that they should not have urned money for the
dialysis machine?
--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
Free the Memes.
? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}
[...]
> Is it so hard for guys to chill out? Jesus....
Not enought hot bi babes giving us blow jobs.
? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}
[...]
> Also:
>
> Bondage Bob was a schizophrenic off his meds.
You have everdence of this?
Paul R. Bennett
Mike... Wayd...
Please, will the both of you listen to me.
I discovered Furry through the wonderful art and story of Steve Gallacci and
Albedo, and Critters, and Space Ark, and Space Wolf, and, what was the one
about the Unicorn Queen and the thief cat and his mule accomplice.
I won't even mention the massive shock I encountered when, because there was
mention of a story I was interested in, only available through Gallery, I
ordered...
Shock is the polite word when I got that issue of Gallery...
But, there was that comic... and there was the suggestion of the possiblity
of another comic strip, which I would dearly love to have seen come to
pass... "Buffalo Scouts"
"Roy Desoto" and "Johnny Gage" and a voice yelling "CLEAR!" is the kindest
way I can put it.
And, yes, I am familiar with adult/erotic art, and not particulary bothered
by it.
Wayd, do you here me? There is a difference between trying to ban
something, and saying "Uh... Guys... this is painting a bullseye on your
butt and dropping your trousers."
Now if the "Darwin Awards" had a category for fandoms trying to clean up the
fannish gene pool, I would hand them Furry and win a "T" shirt of my very
own.
Wayd... listen up... I ain't against porn, or adult material... not
hardly...
B ut, as to Furry Porn... uh... Wayd, think about that one for a minute,
okay?
No, Wayd, really...
If I want delightful en-dishabille ladies, in the flesh no less, and always
a tempting thought, a brief sojourn down I-75 and I am at Cafe Risque...
with adult toys no less. Ummm... maybeso I get the Blue Bullet's Transaxle
fixed....
And video stores, and quick marts, and even cable TV, I can bring all the
fun and delight, and loveilness and fantasy... and sweetness.
I don't need furry Porn.
Ladies... human, sweet, and the people I work with, their smiles, their
laughs, the jokes we share, the simple being.
Wayd, you hearing me? The time spent with the other people we share this
planet with.
Mike... You tell me
Why do YOU furry business people seem to possess this massive, self
destructive urge...
Why do you, and I mean YOU Mike, and Furry, have to make Joe Mundane
customer feel unwelcome?
Yeh, I mean it. You, as a business person pissed me off as a customer years
ago...
You are a luxury, dependent on YOUR customers. A small, desperate and
arrogant niche market.
Well, Mike, don't feel lonely... Winkler finally went over the edge with me
too. After copies of Furrlough going back to ish 9, I finally said
enough....
Mike, you, Winkler, and High really ought to know better. The lot of you
saw and lived through the independent comix collapse. You all should have
learned, but you did not.
And I have been in the small family business part of life myself... been
there, done that, from about age sixteen on. My family had a repair
business, from age sixteen, soon as I could get a drivers license, I had a
set of keys in my hand, manuals in the station wagon, and an electron tube
caddy in the back, and pulling service calls.
Customer relations, in any business, and particularly a niche market, is
Vital! And you, and Winkler need to think about this long and hard.
Expanding your customer base is even more important!
And don't give me the "You don't understand publishing" crap Bub. It don't
fly. I know better. Why, tell me this, is Publishing somehow so different,
immune to the basic marketing and retail, and customer relation skills?
Curtis... if you, and Winkler don't straigten your little business attitude
out, if Furry don't start getting a serious clue.
Listen up,. very carefully, you and Winkler...
You are producing a Product.... You need a Market...
You need:
Quality:
you are going to have to go head on with so many others. And I, as a
customer, am throughly pissed. I am tired of the Furry Arrogance that
insists publicly that anything without ears and tail is junk, when I can go
into a store, and pick up of the shelves randomily, examples of work, and
stories, and creativity, that totally blow the best of Furry away.
Creativity:
Need I say more? I can pick up, and do, every time I swing by the store,
stories of wonders, of imagination, of all the possiblities. I dumped Radio
Comix this last week, and added "Sojourner". And I listen to Good Furrys
declaim that only with ears and a tail can creativity be found. Excuse me
while I rummage for an airsick bag.
Business and Customer Relations.
Oh, you and Furry are really asking for this one, and DON'T get me started.
You, Curtis, and your happy little chums, and Winkler, you shot yourself in
the crotch with this one. Now you understand this loud and clear, furry or
not, I am a "Customer". Piss me off, and I am "Bad News" I have certain
expectations of quality and service.
Curtis, let this sink in... You are a LUXURY! You are competeing for my
dollars, and the dollars of others. If you and Winkler, and others, insist
on relying on the Happy Scritches of a small niche market to make you "Feel
Good", you are in trouble, and honestly, after the Bronze Bear debacle, and
the Mail Box books debacle, and looking at the poor quality and dimishing
creativity that I, as a customer, see, topped by the public arrogance of
Furrys who insist on demeaning every thing around them... And you have your
Flagship artists throwing a public whizzer when a Furry Business is facing a
lawsuit.
Well, Yerf, and Shawntae.... That little embarrasement blew Extinctioners
right out of the water as far as I was concerned.
You are competeing, and you are losing, with the vomitous Furry public
arrogance, and insults to every thing that does not have ears and a tail....
And, oh, remind me... when did the Porn movie industry become mainstream?
Yeh, Curtis, I am being nasty.
Like the Happy BronzeBear Friends, when reminded that Bronzebear Media WAS
subject to the requirements of Federal Law and Regulations... Marmel,
Chandler, and the lot, they said... we don't need customers.
Damn straight you don't. And, as I remember, you opened your mouth too.
And there was the massive embarrasement of, was it CF9, wherein Furry and
its sexual fantasies got rumbled. And a Hotel, to protect its licenses...
Its very expensive licenses, and hard to get.. .and all I read was Furry
screaming because it could not get its porn.
And, by the way, as far as I am concerned, Conway stuffed his foot in his
mouth as well.
As far as I am concerned, Lage, as a business person, stuffed her foot in
her mouth with that one.
I don't NEED Lage's products. I don't need yours, I don't need Winklers, I
don't need Smith's.
Do you understand me Curtis, Winkler, Furry?
I don't need your products, you are a luxury. The quality is, at best,
okay.
Winkler... I hope this makes you feel all cuddly to hear publicly... After
a long time going back to Furrlough 9, I have had enough of the barely okay
quality, and attitudes. You lost a customer.
This is seriously bad, but Furry will pull the usual attitude check and spin
doctoring. Go off in a huff, until another economic time hits the toilet
and costs increase again. Until finally, the cost to produce a Furry comic
so outweighs the income that you, and I mean you, can't do it anymore.
You want my money, then you bloody well have to earn it. You are going to
have to be willing to go head to head with titles like Red Star, Sojourner,
Girl Genius, maybe a thousand others.
You are going to have to produce a quality product, and ears and a tail
ain't enough. You are going to have to find products that appeal across and
to a wide market.
Wait, I forgot... I am an Evil Anti-Furry....
Yeh... I am a pissed off ex-customer, unwilling to give you happy scritches,
and so incredibly gauche as to expect quality to match the quality I get
from other titles...
I know... how DARE I!!
Maybe, just maybe Curtis, you need to look past your political games, and
your Furriness, and maybe, just maybe...
Naw...
And that goes for Winkler too.
The pair of you need, desperately, to start asking some hard questions of
yourselves
Yeh, as a business person myself, maybe I say things you don't want to
hear... but this turning a blind ear
Listen to this very carefully Curtis, Winkler, Furry.
There is a world of possiblities out there. There is also a world of
customers outside that handfull of customers content with ears and a tail..
If you insist on living on the Furry Days of some anthro Boss Tweed and
Furry Tamany Hall, in the long run you are doomed.
And if that is YOUR world, then I will be more than glad to see every
muckraking embarrasement hit the fandom, and you. You will deserve it.
On the other hand.
Well, it is painful, but you know the other hand.
As for you, Wayd
I am not pro porn, I am not anti porn... Porn is.. part of life, like so
much else.
I have a life Wayd... sorry if does not meet your measure of a hump, on the
couch, on the living room floor, in the bedroom, the back seat.
I have a life, a hard working, busy life.
Wayd, yeh, I know, that is being nasty, but think about it for a moment.
And think about your comments. I get questions from people about my
webpage, not about furry, but they look at my museum and ask for assistance
with an old piece of gear, or advice. They share stories.
Wayd, whether you believe it or not of me, I don't deny sexual material, I
just ask, please, use at least a handful of brain cells, instead of that
outburst of sperm, and realize that we all deal with a real world, whether
Furry wants to beleive it or not.
Wayd, I write, I try to explore the heart and the soul... As I remember, you
write Comedy, Sci Fi, Drama... Well... I write.... Sci Fi, Fantasy,
Westerns(of all things), Horror(Lovecraftian).
I ask, use damn all sense.. Realize we share a world with countless other
people.
And I am damned tired Wayd... of too many attitudes, yours included, because
I don't rush out and publicly scream WHOOPPEEE to the tops of my lungs... Do
you hear me Wayd?
Do you understand?
And I don't slap a label on all of Furry either. Well, yeh, maybe there is
a too massive part of the fandom that is so open minded their brains are
running on the floor, and what handfull of nuerons still exist in that cup
of bone are lonely.
Won't argue that.
Seen it Wayd... and honestly... when I went bonkers about cub art, who was
it Wayd (and pick up a mirror) who told me nobody cared... Who was it Wayd?
Look Wayd...
In some ways, I hear your grief, and I am sorry as hell about your loss,
and, although it might sound silly, I am glad for your sake, and French's,
you found each other.
It ain't funny Wayd. Ain't nothing to joke about, it hurts.
Hear me?
Things like this ain't a joke. And you think about this Wolf...It ain't
ajoke in a lot of ways, attacking some one, as you did me, insults that I
was trying to take that popsicle of Porn out of your mouth. I am not.
Yeh, well, Wayd, I know that is nasty. Does it get the point across?
Well, that is mild, compared to Sammy, Timmy, and their little crew as they
desparetly await the return of Vladimyr Illych.
And Curtis is busy preening and inflating himself, serene in the knowledge
that a Furry fandom is drooling.
Curtis... Do you, as a business person, hear me as an infuriated, and
alienated customer?
Will you, and Winkler, think past Furry?
And Wayd, past the Furry Spin Doctors... I hear you... as someone who has
been in the fandom for more than a decade, a lot more. I have seen the
public comments, about safe rooms, green rooms, all the things the
Protectors of the Fandom are willing to lie through their teeth about.
Well, Wayd, I am a "Workin' Man". I got a life...
Paul
Wanderer
news:m3smlfy...@dformosa.zeta.org.au...
> "Wanderer" <wand...@ticnet.com> writes:
>
> > Bondage Bob was a schizophrenic off his meds.
>
> You have everdence of this?
>
<blink> Well, I remember the medication part, because I read it on here...
namely, that he was finally taking his meds, so we needed to find somebody
new to use as the poster boy for clueless bondage nuts. Let me google it...
Okay, here's a report on how Bondage Bob no longer deserves the title of
Clueless Freak, submitted by Tygger Graf:
Here's a similar report from the Curtises:
Here's another, this time from Mike alone, dating to 2002:
Hm... well, aside from that, I can't find anything. I was mistaken, and
hereby retract my statement... contrary to my misremembered ideas, there is
no evidence available that Dennis (Bondage Bob's real name) is a
schizophrenic or takes any medications. I apologize for wasting your time
with fallacious information.
Yours wolfishly,
The mistake-admitting,
MHirtes
MHirtes
on forever. It's his only claim to fame, and a source of steady income
from a buch of goobers with fake tails.
In article <vpntlir...@corp.supernews.com>,
Felyne32k
says...
> Winger I believe to be if not a furry art equivalent of a drug
> dealer, a manufacturer(or Johnny Appleseed with pot as it were given his
> free scattering of posts on the fur* erotica group. Twenty story herms
> splashing semen on office buildings once is one thing and humorous, a
> thousand times, each time going into more technical or artistic detail,
> is a sign of lack of careful thought not to mention common human taste.
>
>
> I cut Hardiman slack because if you can't see the cynical humor in
> his Skunkworks work, you need to revisit the concepts of sarcasm and
> cynicism in school. Some of his more extreme pics are downright comedic
> masterpieces. So some do get the concept of drawing a line and knowing
> where "over the top" starts and ends, and some sadly do not.)
>
. . . . . .
Wow. You've managed a complete about-face after only one paragraph. I
don't think you understand Mr. Winger nearly as much as you think you
do, Wayd.
--
-Felyne32k, supposed "English Major"
Arty McToon
I also discovered anthro animal comics first with "Pogo"...with biting
satire beyond the cute fuzzy swamp critters. "Albedo" with the
dramatic science- fiction bent, "Usagi Yojimbo", "Space Wolf", "Equine
the Uncivilized", "Space Wolf", "Space
Ark"...science-fiction/adventure-oriented either dramatic or played
for laughs. Disney comics, "Critters", "Furrlough", "Wild Life", and
"Zu" for variety from G-Rated kiddie adventures to storytelling for an
older audience.
And then there was "Omaha the Cat Dancer"...my first foray in reading
adult-oriented furry themes. The characters were well-drawn and have
interesting backgrounds and the story was rather engaging while it
lasted. The storywriting and the adult approach were the things here
that sparked my interest. Maybe what resulted afterwards seemed like
bad clones of "Omaha"...with furry characters in pin-ups posing nude
or suggestively with no other traits or "punch-line" that made me care
too much. "Omaha" set the standard...nothing else exactly came close
in my opinion. I regard "Omaha" as one more facet in anthro
storytelling...to see the "bad 'Omaha' copies" dominate this idea of
"furry" is just wrong...it is not why I became a fan. "Shanda The
Panda" I want to like... but too many characters and too much emphasis
on the sexual antics lost me in the story. I might purchase a few
"adult" furry comics if the art and story is good and the characters
are worth giving a damn about, depending on my budget. The rest is
met with polite indifference or a downright "no, thanks."
I guess for a fun hobby as a comics reader and fannish creator, I'm
not going to get too wound up about the fandom's controversies too
much. I'll respect those creators who put in their best work to
enhance the theme of anthro animals "for the masses" such as a "Joe
Mundane" like myself and show the right attitude towards their readers
and colleagues (no one-dimensional creative thinking, no ego-tripping,
no whining, fulfilling commitments to completing storylines within a
reasonable time period) while creating and promoting their work. My
budget can only afford those select-few anthro publications per pay
period among other life necessities (food, shelter, other
entertainment options like manga comics, movie rentals, city newspaper
subscriptions, and cable tv). "Anthro animals" are not my whole
life...just one harmless diversion out of other things. Anything
outside the realm of furry art/comics "with a creative point to it" is
outside my radar screen.
"Paul R. Bennett" <rf...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<3F9C5AD4...@bellsouth.net>...
> I discovered Furry through the wonderful art and story of Steve
Gallacci and
> Albedo, and Critters, and Space Ark, and Space Wolf, and, what was the one
> about the Unicorn Queen and the thief cat and his mule accomplice.
> I won't even mention the massive shock I encountered when, because there was
> mention of a story I was interested in, only available through Gallery, I
> ordered...
> Shock is the polite word when I got that issue of Gallery...
> But, there was that comic... and there was the suggestion of the possiblity
> of another comic strip, which I would dearly love to have seen come to
> pass... "Buffalo Scouts"
> "Roy Desoto" and "Johnny Gage" and a voice yelling "CLEAR!" is the kindest
> way I can put it.
> And, yes, I am familiar with adult/erotic art, and not particulary bothered
> by it...
>
Peter Stoller
> "Wanderer" writes:
>> Bondage Bob was a schizophrenic off his meds.
>
> You have evidence of this?
Dennis Kruzcewski (sic?), a.k.a. Bondage Bob attended Anthrocon this year.
He looked, sounded and acted much more "together" than I have ever seen him.
I complimented him on such and asked tactfully if he was taking prescription
medicine, and he affirmed it. I don't know if the diagnosis was in fact
schizophrenia.
Samantha Ann Patterson
? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} <dfor...@zeta.org.au> wrote:
>Ilthuain <tsonc...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>[...]
>
>> Is it so hard for guys to chill out? Jesus....
>
>Not enought hot bi babes giving us blow jobs.
Well... You gotta admit. A lot of the guys here are such big dicks
that anything they say would be pretty hard to swallow. So... Blame
yourselves! :)
Ilthuain
> LOL! Shitty Howard wants the whole Furrydom Fuckie-Go-Round to go on &
> on forever. It's his only claim to fame, and a source of steady income
> from a buch of goobers with fake tails.
>
Hmm... let me see if I can get the affectation right...
LOL! Mike 'Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag' Hirtes is pissed off
because no matter how perverted and lame the fandom is, they still won't
accept his grotesque and unfunny ass. LOL!
-Ilth
Please, step away from the internet.
MHirtes
Ilthuain <tsonc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Actually, NOT being accepted by shitclowns like you are a good sign that
I'm on the right track.
Ilthuain
>>
>>Hmm... let me see if I can get the affectation right...
>>
>>LOL! Mike 'Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag' Hirtes is pissed off
>>because no matter how perverted and lame the fandom is, they still won't
>>accept his grotesque and unfunny ass. LOL!
>>
>>-Ilth
>>Please, step away from the internet.
>
>
> Actually, NOT being accepted by shitclowns like you are a good sign that
> I'm on the right track.
"Clown" again!
Oh, my challenge stands, tell me what you have over me in any regard.
Is there any way that you are better off than I am? The restriction
concerning 'LOL! You are a furry!' still stands.
On the right track, huh? Way to flex those biceps of rugged
individualism, sitting on your widening ass collecting welfare and
trying to convince yourself that less activity and drive is a good thing.
A Sample from the Ether-
Person with ambition: I just purchased a Lotus Elise.
MechaHirtes: You WORK!? LOL!!!! I get a bus pass from disability, you
have to drive. You're jealous!
Person with ambition: Car and Driver noted that the Elise has the
finest handling of any modern car, that it's almost like driving a
turbocharged go-cart, though it still possesses power and an amazing
interior.
MechaHirtes: Clown!
-Ilth
Learn how to Diss, Lesson 1: Be sure you know who you are dissing.
MHirtes
Ilthuain <tsonc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> MHirtes wrote:
>
> >>
> >>Hmm... let me see if I can get the affectation right...
> >>
> >>LOL! Mike 'Ten Pounds of Shit in a Five Pound Bag' Hirtes is pissed off
> >>because no matter how perverted and lame the fandom is, they still won't
> >>accept his grotesque and unfunny ass. LOL!
> >>
> >>-Ilth
> >>Please, step away from the internet.
> >
> >
> > Actually, NOT being accepted by shitclowns like you are a good sign that
> > I'm on the right track.
>
> "Clown" again!
>
> Oh, my challenge stands, tell me what you have over me in any regard.
I have no obligation to offer you anything, exept maybe a boot up yer
ass.
Ilthuain
>
> I have no obligation to offer you anything, exept maybe a boot up yer
> ass.
Cool. Let's meet up and fightclub for a little while.
-Ilth
Oh, you can't offer any way that you are better off than I am because I
am indeed better off than you in every way. Take that boot.
Skytech
> Everyone say it with me, now:
>
> GODWIN'S LAW!
>
> Thank you. :D
>
> PS. Yeah, I know this thread won't stop here just because I did
> that....
>
I huffed and puffed. I shall speak no more on the subject. It's
just... naaaah.
--
Skytech
Skyfire
> Just to keep you goons from eating up CYD's bandwidth:
>
> Journey To The Center Of Mark Merlino
>
> Author: Computolio
>
> When one looks at the tremendous mess furries have made of not only
> themselves but a small chunk of Western culture (to say nothing of the
> internet), the idea of this disaster having occurred even partially by
> design is difficult to fathom. The "furry sub-culture" is one of the
> great unsung geek tragedies of the Western world, utterly destroying,
> ruining and ass-raping everything it touches.
>
> After all, nobody sane could have actually WANTED TO CREATE a safe haven
> for people such as Dennis Falk, Sarah Wheeler, Kinberliegh Ann Keister,
> Bart "Nekobe" Bakovets, Karl "Xydexx" Jorgensen, every single
> alt.lifestyle.furry poster and whoever the fuck Kajima Frostfang is to
> get together, right? A "community" for people who absolutely should
> never get together under any circumstances lest they form a relatively
> small but destructive cancer on the civilized world? Wrong.
>
*reads the long rant and ponders it*
You know what I haven't had in awhile? Big League Chew.
Ken Pick
> No offense to Mark, but who the hell gives a damn about him but you? Nobody,
> especially newbies, would even know who the guy is if it weren't for you
> bitching about him like some ex lover that got dumped by the guy.
Merlino & Hirtes? Dumped ex-lover? Hmmmm.... You might be on to
something, Tamarr....
It'd explain a lot. Mark's sexcapades & attitude did turn him into
one of SoCal fandom's biggest liabilities (as well as its founder),
and Hirtes is one of the few names in furrydom I haven't heard
connected erotically with him. Though the logistics between Garden
Grove and Council Bluffs might present a problem....
Ken Pick
>
> *reads the long rant and ponders it*
Of course it's a long rant. When you don't have a job or a life, you
can live on the Net 24/7/365 and can rant as long as you want.
Ken Pick
> Well... You gotta admit. A lot of the guys here are such big dicks ...
Looks like they've been answering the same spams I've been deleting.
Old Geezer
<spe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Fanta is a fetish character? That faerie-winged mustelid thing with no
> discernable genetalia? Ken Sample drew her cute to be sure, but there's
> nothing especially sexy about her. She's not quite a "Skiltaire", either,
> though there's a close resemblance.
Yes, Fanta is one of Merlino's skiltaire fetish characters. I guess
you've been lucky enough to have never seen any of the images of a
skiltaire with a big, dripping boner. Lucky you.
Brian Henderson
wrote:
>A. You're saying that dressing up in costumes, buying artwork (of whatever
>stripe) and socializing is equivalent to pedophilia and/or racism?
>Enlighten me, clonebrother... how do they equate? Better, if cons like MFM
>are that bad, why do the hotels love them so? It's certainly not millions
>of dollars...
The problem isn't the people who dress up or buy artwork or anything
of that sort. If that's all that attended conventions, nobody would
be complaining. However, there is a small, very visible and very
vocal group of attendees who go far beyond that. These are the people
who are talking to the media about how wonderful it is to 'be an
animal' and have sex with plushies and the like. These are the people
who, implicitly or explicitly tell the media that all furries are a
bunch of perverts and freaks. Go look at the media segments that have
been done on furry fandom. Shawn Keller has a nice selection of them
up on his web site right now (http://www.furryfans.com). So long as
those people get to speak for the fandom in the minds of the general
public, we have problems.
It would be the same thing as a small group of model railroad
enthusiasts who also happened to be pedophiles started getting on
camera and explaining that model train fans were only in it because
they got to come into contact with young boys for sex. As much as
that isn't true for the overwhelming majority of model railroad
enthusiasts, those few particularly moronic individuals simply present
the illusion that it's true and that is harmful to the whole fandom.
Brian Henderson
<spe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Fanta is a fetish character? That faerie-winged mustelid thing with no
>discernable genetalia? Ken Sample drew her cute to be sure, but there's
>nothing especially sexy about her. She's not quite a "Skiltaire", either,
>though there's a close resemblance.
Fanta was never a fetish character, nor were the Skiltaire designed as
such, although as with anything, they may have been drawn that way
over the years. The only two real uses of Skiltaire were as C/FO
mascot and in Niall Shapiro's "Other Suns" (damn fine RPG if you ask
me). Otherwise it's just been a couple people using the species.
As a mascot though, Fanta was no more of a fetish character than Ken's
Furry Pair, who were the mascots of my own C/FO chapter.
Ilthuain
> be complaining. However, there is a small, very visible and very
> vocal group of attendees who go far beyond that. These are the people
> who are talking to the media about how wonderful it is to 'be an
> animal' and have sex with plushies and the like. These are the people
> who, implicitly or explicitly tell the media that all furries are a
> bunch of perverts and freaks. Go look at the media segments that have
> been done on furry fandom. Shawn Keller has a nice selection of them
> up on his web site right now (http://www.furryfans.com). So long as
> those people get to speak for the fandom in the minds of the general
> public, we have problems.
I've been to tons of cons, and somehow I always miss these people. I
take issue with your claim that they are highly visable at cons...
>
> It would be the same thing as a small group of model railroad
> enthusiasts who also happened to be pedophiles started getting on
> camera and explaining that model train fans were only in it because
> they got to come into contact with young boys for sex. As much as
> that isn't true for the overwhelming majority of model railroad
> enthusiasts, those few particularly moronic individuals simply present
> the illusion that it's true and that is harmful to the whole fandom.
Face it, furry fandom by it's nature is kinda freaky, therefore the
media will always find the most unhinged among us to speak with. It's
good copy.
Why do you care so much if someone you'll never meet thinks your hobby
is pervy? Just get on with your life, dude... do what you enjoy doing,
and be done with it.
-Ilth
Again, is it so hard to chill?
iBuck
>vocal group of attendees who go far beyond that. These are the people
>who are talking to the media about how >wonderful it is to 'be an
>animal' and have sex with plushies and the like.
And by and large, they have done so -well- away from the abilities of the
convnetions to police their behavior, in their own rooms, or more often than
not, at their own residences.There's -nothing- that the fandom at large can
do to prevent them from doing so. Even the often mentione step of blacklisting
would fail, since there would be nothing to prevent them from mouthing off on
ther own -despite- such sanction. or forming their own gatherings.
"You can have it Quickly,Correct, Complex - Pick 2"
Kory Anders
wrote:
>Brian Henderson wrote:
>
>
>> be complaining. However, there is a small, very visible and very
>> vocal group of attendees who go far beyond that.
>
>I've been to tons of cons, and somehow I always miss these people. I
>take issue with your claim that they are highly visable at cons...
Brian hasn't been to a con in several years, so he doesn't know how
visible or vocal 'these people' actually are.
MHirtes
Brian Henderson <BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:25:27 -0500, "Wanderer" <wand...@ticnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >A. You're saying that dressing up in costumes, buying artwork (of whatever
> >stripe) and socializing is equivalent to pedophilia and/or racism?
> >Enlighten me, clonebrother... how do they equate? Better, if cons like MFM
> >are that bad, why do the hotels love them so? It's certainly not millions
> >of dollars...
>
> The problem isn't the people who dress up or buy artwork or anything
> of that sort. If that's all that attended conventions, nobody would
> be complaining. However, there is a small, very visible and very
> vocal group of attendees who go far beyond that. These are the people
> who are talking to the media about how wonderful it is to 'be an
> animal' and have sex with plushies and the like.
That would be Mark Merlino.
MHirtes
wrote:
There's only ONE pic of a skiltaire with a big, dripping boner?
MHirtes
cath...@earthlink.net (Ken Pick) wrote:
Now, if only I could impersonate a Nigerian Government Official well
enough.........
Tamar
Art PsychoTherapy will keep me employed and paying your welfare, SSI, and
food stamps for quite sometime till that heart gives out due to too much fat
chocking it.
You should be happy.
You do though provide a source of amusement to the NG though. You're a tough
guy behind the keyboard, but probably a limp biscuit in person.
"MHirtes" <h...@justabunchofwords.com> wrote in message
news:hts-6D33EE.1...@news.central.cox.net...
Tamar
a house behind a computer screen all day you know.
"Ilthuain" <tsonc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fH6nb.39220$Fm2.16619@attbi_s04...
Keeshah
>
> MHirtes <h...@justabunchofwords.com> wrote in message news:<hts-EC6539.1...@news.central.cox.net>...
> > Just to keep you goons from eating up CYD's bandwidth:
> >
> > Journey To The Center Of Mark Merlino
> >
He didn't write it, much to clean an thought out to be his work.
Ken Pick
> In article <BBC14E87.2F7C%spe...@earthlink.net>, Peter Stoller
> <spe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Fanta is a fetish character? That faerie-winged mustelid thing with no
> > discernable genetalia? Ken Sample drew her cute to be sure, but there's
> > nothing especially sexy about her. She's not quite a "Skiltaire", either,
> > though there's a close resemblance.
The Ken Sample piece described is not Fanta, but a "fairy Skiltare"
whose name I can't remember who was the mascot of New York's CFO
chapter back around 1980.
> Yes, Fanta is one of Merlino's skiltaire fetish characters. I guess
> you've been lucky enough to have never seen any of the images of a
> skiltaire with a big, dripping boner. Lucky you.
Okay, Assholes, history lesson and Reality Check:
As far as I can tell, Mustelid Mark invented Skiltare sometime in the
1970s as a generic cute critter with a couple special abilities --
psionic empathy and electrogenative ability. The "early-model
Skiltare" were fully developed at the time I first heard of them upon
meeting Mark back in 1979.
Early model Skiltare were straight, mated for life, and had the
intelligence of an adult with the freshness and enthusiasm of a little
kid and the inner resilience of a Hobbit. Maybe a bit airhead, but if
I were to meet a female early-model Skiltare for real, I'd be trying
to stick a ring onto her finger.
Fanta was actually the second Skiltare created, as a mascot for the
CFO (Mark's anime club of the time). She was into anime and VCRs, NOT
kinky sex. The first was Theta, a blue-furred arboreal with a yellow
chest whom Mark originally created for a series of fan stories called
"Meander" which he never got around to writing. "Meander" was pitched
as what's now called "Young Adult SF", and Skiltare of the time would
have had no problem appearing in children's books or as mainstream
plushies.
Sy, Mark's fursona Skiltare, was originally created as a boyfriend for
Fanta back in those dim times. Other prominent early-model Skiltare
characters were Ora, the golden-furred fursona of his then-girlfriend
Linda, Midori (she's green), Nixie (Skiltare Miss Halloween, black
with orange chest), Kristi the Xmas Skiltare, Anton & Kym (Skiltare
fursonas of the Hartmans, mutual friends at the time) and about 10-20
others.
What happened was Mark went through a major personality change in the
fall of 1982, about the time he turned 30. (Some call it an "early
mid-life crisis", but the only thing I can compare it to is some sort
of abrupt "Damascus Road" religious conversion, i.e. "Accepted
homosexuality as his personal LORD and Savior" and started
"witnessing" with all the zeal of a Jack Chick overdose; this was what
torpedoed our friendship.)
And when Mark went to hell, he took his Skiltare with him, until now
you get the Skiltare Porn "images of a skiltare with a big dripping
boner" and very little else. (In the early- to mid-Eighties after the
change, Skiltare also developed a new super-power each month or two; a
common pattern in fanboy super-races. The final "Skiltare" bears
little or no resemblance other than physical appearance to the early
models.) He retained his fursona as Sy throughout this process, which
has now been going on for more than 20 years.
The last time I showed someone a Skiltare pic was ten years ago.
After the reaction I got, never again. The only good reactions I've
gotten to "cold" showings of Skiltare were from the mundanes outside
of the fandom. Outside the fandom, the usual reaction was "Oooo!
She's cute!"; inside the fandom, the usual reaction was to attack with
either a deadly or a friendly weapon.
In the "Meander" series back in the Seventies, Mark had something
called "The Skiltare Alliance", a Skiltare-rescue organization. Right
now, a real-life Skiltare Alliance would really come in handy, to
rescue those little psychedelic weezils with deelyboppers from their
current porn/sex slavery and restore them to what they were -- cute
critters with a couple special abilities and a lot of unconditional
love to give.
Ken Pick
Lotta Hirtes cum. Anyone know anybody who can clean it off?
Ken Pick
> In article <vpnuce7...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Tamar" <howar...@erie.net> wrote:
> > No, but maybe that does mean that the likes of perhaps him but definitely
> > Hirtes will get off of the biggest charity the US has, welfare, and stop
> > excepting the money of those furries that work and have their taxes
> > contribute to keeping him fat and on his ass all day long. My wallet just
> > felt a little heavier. Thanks guys.
>
> Jealousy.
"AH'M PROUD (twang twang twang)
TO BE A PARASITE;
AH'M PROUD (twang twang twang)
TO BE A PARASITE..."
Ken Pick
> Just how long did it take you to type out all of that anyway? I mean really?
> Why is it those who care the less about this 'fandom' can write a term paper
> long post about it with more passion than a presidential candidate?
Because pathological furry-haters are just as obsessively FURRREEEE!
as any 500+lb skunkfucker from a Keller comic. They've just flipped
one-eighty from total blind devotion to total blind hatred.
> When are people going to realize that in the long run, none of this crap
> really matters anyway. Its all about talking animals people.
>
> Much more important things going on in the world. Turn on a tv to the news
> ever now and then.
But to them, the world doesn't exist. The biggest problem with
fanboys isn't the kinky sex. That's actually a secondary problem.
The main problem is that total obsessive tunnel-vision. Nothing
outside of their tunnel-vision could possibly exist, i.e.
"But news isn't FURRRREEEEEEEEE! EVERYTHING'S GOTTA BE FURRRREEEE!
FURRRREEEEEE! FURRREEEEEE!"
MHirtes
> "Tamar" <howar...@erie.net> wrote in message
> news:<vpnu307...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > Just how long did it take you to type out all of that anyway? I mean
> > really?
> > Why is it those who care the less about this 'fandom' can write a term
> > paper
> > long post about it with more passion than a presidential candidate?
>
> Because pathological furry-haters are just as obsessively FURRREEEE!
> as any 500+lb skunkfucker from a Keller comic. They've just flipped
> one-eighty from total blind devotion to total blind hatred.
Okay. If THAT'S the spin you put on it.
(rolls eyes, then chuckles at the furree)
>
> > When are people going to realize that in the long run, none of this crap
> > really matters anyway. Its all about talking animals people.
When animals see furries, they're glad they don't walk upright. :)
MHirtes
Jealous cuz I got it and you don't.
MHirtes
Sounds so much like a metaphor for furrydom itself. A once-enjoyable
genre degenerated into a pack of hissing, snarling perverts.
MHirtes
"Tamar" <howar...@erie.net> wrote:
> Sorry Mike, but I think my degrees in Special Education, Art Education, and
> Art PsychoTherapy
means jack squat becuase all you're doing is funnybooks for goofy
perverts.
> will keep me employed and paying your welfare, SSI, and
> food stamps for quite sometime till that heart gives out due to too much fat
> chocking it.
>
> You should be happy.
>
> You do though provide a source of amusement to the NG though. You're a tough
> guy behind the keyboard, but probably a limp biscuit in person.
Yoo don know mee vewy wewll, doo yoo?
Felyne32k
says...
> Well, one doesn't get an expanded vocabulary when they are self isolated in
> a house behind a computer screen all day you know.
>
Well, one /can/ - Project Gutenberg recently released its 10,000th
eText, for example, and there are a lot of other marvelous works of
literature online (both legitimately and illegitimately).
It's just... unlikely, to put a fine point on it.
--
-Felyne32k, supposed "English Major"
Wanderer
Close, Ilth, but you used too many long words and not enough four-letter
ones. Try again, please.
Yours wolfishly,
The text-comparing,
Wanderer
wand...@ticnet.com
"Where am I going? I don't quite know.
What does it matter *where* people go?
Down to the woods where the bluebells grow!
Anywhere! Anywhere! *I* don't know!"
-- a. a. milne
Tamar
> In article <vpr8d6b...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Tamar" <howar...@erie.net> wrote:
>
> > Sorry Mike, but I think my degrees in Special Education, Art Education,
and
> > Art PsychoTherapy
>
>
> means jack squat becuase all you're doing is funnybooks for goofy
> perverts.
Ah no. Wanna compair taxe return statements? Oh that's right you gotta have
a job to actually get a tax return. And sorry Mikie my books PG-13.
(http://www.extinctioners.com Shameless plug).
>
> > will keep me employed and paying your welfare, SSI, and
> > food stamps for quite sometime till that heart gives out due to too much
fat
> > chocking it.
> >
> > You should be happy.
> >
> > You do though provide a source of amusement to the NG though. You're a
tough
> > guy behind the keyboard, but probably a limp biscuit in person.
>
> Yoo don know mee vewy wewll, doo yoo?
I know my SE kids can spell better than you anyway. And yeah, I know you all
day long. Haven't called anybody on the phone at late hours of the night
crying for mommy lately have you? And puh, you don't have the guts. Keyboard
bravery is very shallow.
Impseth
That doesn't make any sense.
Jealous because your a parasite and he isn't?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Off through the new day's mist I run
Out from the new day's mist I have come
I hunt
Therefore I am
Harvest the land
Taking of the fallen lamb
Metallica - Of Wolf and Man
Wanderer
news:BBC14E87.2F7C%spe...@earthlink.net...
> Fanta is a fetish character? That faerie-winged mustelid thing with no
> discernable genetalia? Ken Sample drew her cute to be sure, but there's
> nothing especially sexy about her. She's not quite a "Skiltaire", either,
> though there's a close resemblance.
>
<snip>
Mind you, she makes the "Elvira, Mistress of the Dark" look work... looks
cute.:>
Likewise, Mr. Merlino's own "skiltaire.net" keeps things tame... and I've
investigated every link I can find:
To be fair, there are indications of how far things have gotten in some
circles... I'm not going into detail, but the character sheet online for
"Other Suns 2nd Edition" has an "Arts of Love Skills" section.
Yours not posting that last link,
The more-prudent-than-prurient,
Brian O'connell
news:9efdce3a.03102...@posting.google.com...
> i.e.
>
> Lotta Hirtes cum. Anyone know anybody who can clean it off?
Does anyone have the phone number for the Council Bluffs hazmat?
Matt Harpold
> > who, implicitly or explicitly tell the media that all furries are a
> > bunch of perverts and freaks. Go look at the media segments that have
> > been done on furry fandom. Shawn Keller has a nice selection of them
> > up on his web site right now (http://www.furryfans.com). So long as
> > those people get to speak for the fandom in the minds of the general
> > public, we have problems.
>
> I've been to tons of cons, and somehow I always miss these people. I
> take issue with your claim that they are highly visable at cons...
It's that concersative straw man garbage applied to furries. Make up a bunch
of urban myths about furries and attack THAT while having no knowledge of
anything that ACTUALLY goes on at furry cons these days. The fact that he's
using a satirist to support his argument is a bit like me using Mad Magazine
as a primary source.
Funny how I go to cons all the time, and this Brian Henderson retardate
doesn't, and SOMEHOW, I know more about what goes on at cons than he does!
Imagine that. Dude making up shit on the net. Never seen that before.
>
> Face it, furry fandom by it's nature is kinda freaky, therefore the
> media will always find the most unhinged among us to speak with. It's
> good copy.
>
> Why do you care so much if someone you'll never meet thinks your hobby
> is pervy? Just get on with your life, dude... do what you enjoy doing,
> and be done with it.
See, at that point, he'd no longer have a soapbox, and guys like this
DESPARATELY need a soapbox.
-Matt/Turb
mouse
> In the "Meander" series back in the Seventies, Mark had something
> called "The Skiltare Alliance", a Skiltare-rescue organization. Right
> now, a real-life Skiltare Alliance would really come in handy, to
> rescue those little psychedelic weezils with deelyboppers from their
> current porn/sex slavery and restore them to what they were -- cute
> critters with a couple special abilities and a lot of unconditional
> love to give.
whoa...its funny you said that because for the past couple days i was
thinking those skiltaires actually seemed pretty cool
and i was thinking it would be funny if someone should "steal" them
because they deserved better
and now with all this extra information, they actually seem like they
were REALLY cool way back when
Brian O'connell
Herpe's dad forgot to wear a rubber.
Hope that helped.
Brian O'connell
news:hjg171-...@beastie.ix.netcom.com...
> Obvious Fake. Do Not Harvest. fed this fish to the penguins on Saturday
> 25 October 2003 21:43 pm:
>
>
> > Everyone say it with me, now:
> >
> > GODWIN'S LAW!
> >
> > Thank you. :D
> >
> > PS. Yeah, I know this thread won't stop here just because I did
> > that....
> >
> If my readings are correct -- Godwin's Law only states that any
> argument on Usenet will eventually devolve to the point of making
> comparisons to Hitler/NAZIs... It does NOT declare a winner or loser
> when such does happen.
And the word "fascist" applies to many MANY regimes, not just the Nazis.
Pinochet, Stalin, Kruschev, Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Bush, etc.
Maybe they should change fascist to another word to avoid confusion? I
suggest "Happy Fluffy Bunnies". Then EVERYONE would want to live in a Happy
Fluffy Bunny regime!
Swipecat
>In article <9efdce3a.03102...@posting.google.com>,
> cath...@earthlink.net (Ken Pick) wrote:
>
>> Because pathological furry-haters are just as obsessively FURRREEEE!
>> as any 500+lb skunkfucker from a Keller comic. They've just flipped
>> one-eighty from total blind devotion to total blind hatred.
>
>Okay. If THAT'S the spin you put on it.
Mike, you've just admitted in CYD that you've still got furry
commissions from various artists on the go. QED.
--
Swipecat
Ken Pick
> cath...@earthlink.net (Ken Pick) wrote in message news:<9efdce3a.03102...@posting.google.com>...
> > In the "Meander" series back in the Seventies, Mark had something
> > called "The Skiltare Alliance", a Skiltare-rescue organization. Right
> > now, a real-life Skiltare Alliance would really come in handy, to
> > rescue those little psychedelic weezils with deelyboppers from their
> > current porn/sex slavery and restore them to what they were -- cute
> > critters with a couple special abilities and a lot of unconditional
> > love to give.
>
> whoa...its funny you said that because for the past couple days i was
> thinking those skiltaires actually seemed pretty cool
> and i was thinking it would be funny if someone should "steal" them
> because they deserved better
If you can rescue a Skiltare in this way, do so. Create your own
Skiltare, but keep them secret from Mark.
> and now with all this extra information, they actually seem like they
> were REALLY cool way back when
They were. There are less than half a dozen of us who remember what
early Skiltare were really like. We need more. The Skiltare need
more.
You would not believe all the Pet Fuck-Toy Super-Races (TM) I've had
inflicted on me in this fandom. And now, thanks to the same Mustelid
Mark who created them in the first place, Skiltare are just another
PFTSR.
This is like a father molesting and pimping out his own daughters.
When you create the critter, you are their daddy, and what father
pimps out his own daughters as whores?
Ken Pick
> "Peter Stoller" <spe...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:BBC14E87.2F7C%spe...@earthlink.net...
> > Fanta is a fetish character? That faerie-winged mustelid thing with no
> > discernable genetalia? Ken Sample drew her cute to be sure, but there's
> > nothing especially sexy about her. She's not quite a "Skiltaire", either,
> > though there's a close resemblance.
>
> <snip>
>
> circles... I'm not going into detail, but the character sheet online for
> "Other Suns 2nd Edition" has an "Arts of Love Skills" section.
I was in contact with Shapero when he was first writing that game.
(Burned me out of ever wanting to play it long before it hit the
printers...) The "Arts of Love" section was some private "rules" that
he put in as a joke. You'd be amazed how much of that type of
unofficial "rules enhancements" go on among gamers.
Martin Skunk
news:bnldgq$2qc3$1...@velox.critter.net...
> And the word "fascist" applies to many MANY regimes, not just the Nazis.
> Pinochet, Stalin, Kruschev, Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Bush, etc.
I disagree with you on this point. Since it was originally conceived
in the 1920s, the word "fascist" has been overused, and according with many
historians out there that are tired to see the term pop up all the time
around. "Fascist" has became a wildcard term to define any totalitarian
regime or ideology. So we find a curious paradox: Saddam Hussein was defined
as a fascist, and George W. Bush's politics have been said to be
"fascistoid". Hitler's national-socialism was also called a "fascist", and
Stalin politics are said to be fascistic, too. According with these
historians, the word should be used ONLY to denominate the regime instaured
from 1922 to 1944 by Benito Mussolini in Italy. And the Germans were
national-socialism or nazism. And Franco's regime is Franquism. Stalin's
regime, on the other hand, is not surprisingly named Stalinism, and Pol
Pot's regime was strongly influence by it.
On the other side, Kim Jong Il and Pinochet's regimes are "only"
authoritarism. And Bush, well, it's a right-winged democratic regime. And
that's all.
For further reading about the topic, I suggest reading
http://www.wehaitians.com/the%20latest%20obcenity%20has%20seven%20letters%20f%20a%20s%20c%20i%20s%20t.html
---Martin Skunk
Peter Stoller
>
> And the word "fascist" applies to many MANY regimes, not just the Nazis.
> Pinochet, Stalin, Kruschev, Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Bush, etc.
>
> Maybe they should change fascist to another word to avoid confusion?
Yes, the word is "totalitarian", any political ideology corrupted to
establish and maintain absolute power and control, with zero tolerance for
any dissenting ideology.
Brian O'connell
Well that pretty much sums it up, yes.
Brian O'connell
You spin a 16 on the 7 sided die roll, meaning your condom of holding
survives a bout with an amorous syphillis infested Orc whore?
Peter Stoller
> This is like a father molesting and pimping out his own daughters.
> When you create the critter, you are their daddy, and what father
> pimps out his own daughters as whores?
Oh c'mon, that's one skewed similie. Skiltaire are fictional cartoon
characters that the creator can do with as he pleases, and it pleased him to
do so. They don't have lives or need child welfare agencies looking out for
them. They're not REAL.
MHirtes
FurryMUCK that's supposed to be a "Skiltaire Death Camp & Gift Shop".
In article <9efdce3a.03102...@posting.google.com>,
cath...@earthlink.net (Ken Pick) wrote:
MHirtes
Too bad B.O. Connell's dad was too drunk to figure out how to put one on.
Brian Henderson
wrote:
>I've been to tons of cons, and somehow I always miss these people. I
>take issue with your claim that they are highly visable at cons...
They're certainly highly visible to the media, who never seems to have
a problem finding as many freaks as they want to parade before the
cameras.
>Face it, furry fandom by it's nature is kinda freaky, therefore the
>media will always find the most unhinged among us to speak with. It's
>good copy.
I disagree that furry fandom, 'by it's nature' must be freaky. It's
no more inherently freaky than people who watch cartoons from Japan or
collect action figures or anything else.
>Why do you care so much if someone you'll never meet thinks your hobby
>is pervy? Just get on with your life, dude... do what you enjoy doing,
>and be done with it.
If it was just some random person out there, I wouldn't, but we're
talking about national media that, rightly or wrongly, helps to form
public opinion on a wide scale. If Joe Screwball has a cow plushie
fetish, who cares? If Joe Screwball talks to the media about his cow
plushie fetish and implies that all furr fans have similar fetishes,
that's where the line has to be drawn. While Joe's bedroom antics
don't affect me at all, the opinion of the public can certainly affect
my life as part of the fandom.
Imagine someone who works in a professional office and may have a
furry image as their desktop wallpaper. Their associates, having seen
the latest "furries are all perverts" news story, can change their
opinion of the individual based on that. As can his boss. As can his
clients. Is it fair that fans should have to hide their enjoyment of
anthropomorphics because a couple of loose-lipped perverts insist on
prancing around in fursuits for the media?
Brian Henderson
>And by and large, they have done so -well- away from the abilities of the
>convnetions to police their behavior, in their own rooms, or more often than
>not, at their own residences.There's -nothing- that the fandom at large can
>do to prevent them from doing so. Even the often mentione step of blacklisting
>would fail, since there would be nothing to prevent them from mouthing off on
>ther own -despite- such sanction. or forming their own gatherings.
No, there's nothing that anyone can do to stop them, but the fandom
can certainly ostracize them afterward and make the displeasure of the
fandom in general known.
If conventions had a stated policy that anyone... ANYONE who went on
camera and disparaged the fandom would be forever barred from
attending, I suspect we'd see less of these idiots whacking off in the
media. Conventions depend on the fandom for their existence, why
should they allow these losers who are doing nothing positive for the
fandom image to attend? The same goes for MUCKs. The same goes for
other gatherings. However, these people are allowed to continue to
flap their lips, hurt the fandom and nothing is ever done.
Somehow, I think that if Ostrich or one of the other morons knew
beforehand that if they went on camera, they would never attend
another furry convention as long as they lived, they'd have thought
twice about doing it.
Brian Henderson
wrote:
>They were. There are less than half a dozen of us who remember what
>early Skiltare were really like. We need more. The Skiltare need
>more.
It really is sad what happened to a lot of the early 'furry species'
who have fallen by the wayside or been perverted into hermaphrodite
fuck toys with anti-gravity breasts. As much as I used to like Mark
and the Skiltaire crew, you're right that Mark just went crazy and
changed from a really likeable guy to a complete lunatic. It's too
bad, I liked the old Mark, wish he'd get some help and return to
'normal'.
Peter Stoller
>snip<
Furry's public image matters most.. To YOU!
It matters somewhat less to others, like me. Sure it's a concern, and
sometimes a distressing one, but that doesn't prevent the majority of us
from continuing to enjoy our involvement with the fandom.
Can you come up with any example of someone who's personal life and/or
career has actually been compromised by association with furry fandom? So
far the damage done by this stigma has been hypothetical. I want to see
actual testimony that says,"furry cost me my promotion" or the equivalent
that backs up this notion.
iBuck
>can certainly ostracize them afterward and make the displeasure of the
>fandom in general known.
Bullshit... first of all, the rest of the fandom, isn't as strung out as you
are over this matter, and doesnt seem to feel that an -organized- effort to
black list individuals (espically who's names and identies may or may not be
known) is an apporpriate solution.
>If conventions had a stated policy that anyone... ANYONE who went on
>camera and disparaged the fandom would be forever barred from
>attending,
Unfortunatly, that's a subjective and widly varible judgement, with NO way of
being universally, or systematically applied. By that kind of rule, YOU could
be barred for going on camera with your usuall screed about how god-awful the
fandom is, how it's full of pedophilla and perversions, and how it needs to be
cleaned up
As it is the twinks are generally not saying anything that outright disparages
the fandom, they merely descibe what it is -for them- the concept that the
fandom, has been "disparaged" is wholey within the mind of the viewers who find
their reasons unacceptable..
>However, these people are allowed to continue to
>flap their lips, hurt the fandom and nothing is ever done.
Go back to that bit about "No, there's nothing that anyone can do to stop them"
it's the last place you were making sense, and apply it to what you just
said... The rest of the fandom, has no ability to allow or disallow them from
"flapping their lips"
What's more it's not our -job- to stop them, this fandom is about enjoung
anthro characters, it's not about making people who enjoy anthro character
look good...
> they would never attend
>another furry convention as long as they lived, they'd have thought
>twice about doing it.
Considering how you've openly stated that the conventions arn't really usefull
anymore, I doubt that idea has all -that- much detterant power, and again,
there is nothing stoping these people from developing their own events and
gathering, god forbid they might even build -popular- ones, and attact people
who unlike you arn't penny-ante reactionaries..
"You can have it Quickly,Correct, Complex - Pick 2"
Ilthuain
> They're certainly highly visible to the media, who never seems to have
> a problem finding as many freaks as they want to parade before the
> cameras.
I would imagine the media does some searching for these guys, and they
don't just strike gold with the first person they come across at a con.
> I disagree that furry fandom, 'by it's nature' must be freaky. It's
> no more inherently freaky than people who watch cartoons from Japan or
> collect action figures or anything else.
If you go to a convention for it, it's a little freaky. Nothing wrong
with that, unless you're trying to appear as white-bread as possible.
> If it was just some random person out there, I wouldn't, but we're
> talking about national media that, rightly or wrongly, helps to form
> public opinion on a wide scale. If Joe Screwball has a cow plushie
> fetish, who cares? If Joe Screwball talks to the media about his cow
> plushie fetish and implies that all furr fans have similar fetishes,
> that's where the line has to be drawn. While Joe's bedroom antics
> don't affect me at all, the opinion of the public can certainly affect
> my life as part of the fandom.
How come it seems to have this dreadful effect on you and a few other
people here, when the majority of us seem to get along in society just
fine, even with the devil-fires of furridom licking at our ankles?
> Imagine someone who works in a professional office and may have a
> furry image as their desktop wallpaper. Their associates, having seen
> the latest "furries are all perverts" news story, can change their
> opinion of the individual based on that. As can his boss. As can his
> clients. Is it fair that fans should have to hide their enjoyment of
> anthropomorphics because a couple of loose-lipped perverts insist on
> prancing around in fursuits for the media?
Is it fair that these people cannot prance around in fursuits for the
media because it might cause someone, somewhere, to be in the position
where they have to change their Windows wallpaper? It appears to me
that you place the slightest inconvenience at the highest level of
importance. Unless your wallpaper is overtly sexual, I don't even see
how people will connect that image to the image of a pile of fursuited
middle-aged men groping each other.
-Ilth
Just take it easy.
Brian O'connell
news:bnmc6m$192t$1...@velox.critter.net...
What I mean to say is (I've been up all night working, so bear with me) that
facism applies more aptly as a symptom of totalitarianism than as the
disease in its own. Essentially a side effect.
iBuck
>a problem finding as many freaks as they want to parade before the
>cameras.
Of course, the fact that those events, have been planned and sponsored by the
media well before hand doesn't occurr to you . Even after the Man Show went
throug the trouble of bringing their -own- freaks...
? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}
[...]
> whoa...its funny you said that because for the past couple days i was
> thinking those skiltaires actually seemed pretty cool
> and i was thinking it would be funny if someone should "steal" them
> because they deserved better
<loon type="Copyrightfanboy">
You can't do that it would be a copyright violation. Intelectual
teft. You would be no better then slash fiction writers. If you did
that all creative works would cease to exist.
</loon>
--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
Free the Memes.
Felyne32k
cath...@earthlink.net says...
needs "unofficial 'rules enhancements'" when you have entire GAMES that
are "rules enhancements"? Check out FATAL, the hands-down worst RPG of
all time. FATAL makes Tapestries look like a game of In Nomine played by
eunuch Buddhist monks. Most people couldn't *willfully* design a game
that tasteless and insipid.
The NetBook of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge was fun, but FATAL doesn't
just have stats for cup/codpiece size. It has *canonical stats* for,
among other things, nipple length, tongue length, areola hue/diameter,
and HYMEN RESISTANCE FACTOR, for all that's good and holy. It's a game
where *scrotal fullness* can cause penalties for your character, you can
relieve it with the mechanics provided for *rape*, and you can
*calculate the damage for it*.
Furries got *nothing* on this guy. Nothing.
--
-Felyne32k, supposed "English Major"
Chris Beilby
"Felyne32k" <Fely...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a088e9a5...@news.fur.com...
> Check out FATAL, the hands-down worst RPG of
> all time.
AAAARGH! The Game that Shall Not Be Named! No!
Ken Pick
> "Ken Pick" <cath...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:9efdce3a.03102...@posting.google.com...
> > "Wanderer" <wand...@ticnet.com> wrote in message
> > > circles... I'm not going into detail, but the character sheet online for
> > > "Other Suns 2nd Edition" has an "Arts of Love Skills" section.
> >
> > I was in contact with Shapero when he was first writing that game.
> > (Burned me out of ever wanting to play it long before it hit the
> > printers...) The "Arts of Love" section was some private "rules" that
> > he put in as a joke. You'd be amazed how much of that type of
> > unofficial "rules enhancements" go on among gamers.
>
> You spin a 16 on the 7 sided die roll, meaning your condom of holding
> survives a bout with an amorous syphillis infested Orc whore?
If the DM's feeling nasty....