An rookie artist's point of view
Shawnta...@my-dejanews.com
*Flame Shields*
Okay, time to take the plunge. I've noticed something in the two and a half
years of web-surfing and looking at furry sites and pages and I've come to
the conclusion that, well, a LOT of work needs to be done with these web
artist. Now, I'm not saying they're bad, but I'm not saying they're good
either. Well, a large number of them anyway. It's nice to see folks or furs
do drawings and try to visually express their attraction to the art form, but
school needs to be in session. Form folks, you must work on your form. Get
some nature books, anatomy books. Read them, study them. Know what you're
drawing before you draw it. I'm not even going to touch on the spooge thing,
a term I learned last year, but hey if you must draw it DO IT RIGHT. Again
you can't draw something you've never seen.
There would be more "Pro" furry artist if more furs took the time to sharpen
their craft and create their own style. Anyone can make a webpage and post
art but not everyone can do art really worth viewing. Does than mean stop?
Heck no, never stop that's the point. Keep working on it. There's a lot of
potential out there, but the skills aren't being tapped.
Well, that's my two cents. Now to join Ms. Light in the bleachers and watch
the fun. By the way, my tactical skills are pretty weak right now thanks to
finals so no flame wars ok. (Who named them flame wars anyway?)
Ebony Leopard getting a little more bold.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Kese
Shawnta...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> *Flame Shields*
>
> Okay, time to take the plunge. I've noticed something in the two and a half
> years of web-surfing and looking at furry sites and pages and I've come to
> the conclusion that, well, a LOT of work needs to be done with these web
> artist. Now, I'm not saying they're bad, but I'm not saying they're good
> either. Well, a large number of them anyway.
It's what comes of a lot of folks with pencils, scanners and web access;) Not
really a problem in and of itself. Although I will admit that a lot of the art I
see popping up in 'zines and whatnot is a bit more amatuerish than I woud have
expected. Personally I haven't sent in much of my own as I still would like to
polish it up a bit.
>
>
> There would be more "Pro" furry artist if more furs took the time to sharpen
> their craft and create their own style. Anyone can make a webpage and post
> art but not everyone can do art really worth viewing. Does than mean stop?
> Heck no, never stop that's the point. Keep working on it. There's a lot of
> potential out there, but the skills aren't being tapped.
Well, that's also a value judgement based on subjective opinion. What I might
find viewable you might find unbearable and vice versa. Granted I will give you
that there are some very beginner artists that think they are ready to sell, but
in truth that's also a value judgment of sorts. I mean if someone likes it, it
has value to that person.My own gripe is the versitilaty or lack thereof of a lot
of fan artists. To me that's what many artists should concentrate on building.
Myself, I'll be changing my furry site to a general art site with my abstract
art, cartooning and yes, even human art. That's what I would like to see more of.
Pigdeon-holing oneself is the worst thing any artist can do.
>
>
> Well, that's my two cents. Now to join Ms. Light in the bleachers and watch
> the fun. By the way, my tactical skills are pretty weak right now thanks to
> finals so no flame wars ok. (Who named them flame wars anyway?)
No flames here, but again value of art is a very subject idea. Although when I
see pics where one arm is shorter than the other and the eyes are wacky I kinda
cringe;)
kese
Syke
Kese wrote:
> Shawnta...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > *Flame Shields*
> >
> > Okay, time to take the plunge. I've noticed something in the two and a half
> > years of web-surfing and looking at furry sites and pages and I've come to
> > the conclusion that, well, a LOT of work needs to be done with these web
> > artist. Now, I'm not saying they're bad, but I'm not saying they're good
> > either. Well, a large number of them anyway.
>
> It's what comes of a lot of folks with pencils, scanners and web access;) Not
> really a problem in and of itself. Although I will admit that a lot of the art I
> see popping up in 'zines and whatnot is a bit more amatuerish than I woud have
> expected. Personally I haven't sent in much of my own as I still would like to
> polish it up a bit.
>
Mememememem! I got a pencil a scanner and web access! I can draw, really I can!
Then again, I notice something throughout the furry scene, no matter how someone
draws, half the ppl who see it will say it's good :) It's IMPOSSIBLE for someone to
sit there and take anyone's critiques seriously when they say it's good, and then you
have those ppl who destroy promising artists by being overly critical :P
When someone compliments me, while I like it, I try to improve on all the points that
were not mentioned in their compliment >:) I've had a bit of constructive criticism,
and as for my submissions to fanzines... I've never seen a fanzine which is why I'm a
bit iffy of trying to contribute, I want to be at the level that's there.
-- Syke
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homepage:http://www2.fortunecity.com/roswell/bacon/2/unfin.html
ICQ:11325417
Places to Find Me Online:
Transformers Genesis:mozzarella.wpi.edu port 2000
Quinn/Nightwatch/Darius/Scatter
FurryMUCK:Syke, occasionally
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kese
Syke wrote:
> Kese wrote:
>
> > Shawnta...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
>
> >
>
> Mememememem! I got a pencil a scanner and web access! I can draw, really I can!
> Then again, I notice something throughout the furry scene, no matter how someone
> draws, half the ppl who see it will say it's good :) It's IMPOSSIBLE for someone to
> sit there and take anyone's critiques seriously when they say it's good, and then you
> have those ppl who destroy promising artists by being overly critical :P
Welcome to the wonderful world of showing your art or writing to the public. I know what
you mean, I've been there and can remember taking a scholarship test for a big prestigous
art school and having the panel tear my work to shreds.(Didn't get the scholarship but
got accepted, too bad the price tag was so damn high:P) It's what happens to and should
be expected by anyone that puts their creative efforts into the public forum. Develop a
thick skin is my best advice. Sure most ppl wil be encouraging and not insult outright,
but there are tactless idiots out there more than happy to stomp on your ego:P
>
>
> When someone compliments me, while I like it, I try to improve on all the points that
> were not mentioned in their compliment >:) I've had a bit of constructive criticism,
> and as for my submissions to fanzines... I've never seen a fanzine which is why I'm a
> bit iffy of trying to contribute, I want to be at the level that's there.
It helps to take a look at the status quo and then try to exceed it. I haven't posted
anything lately due to the fact I've been spending a solid month sketching and life
drawing in an effort to boost my skill. That way the pressure to "perform" is off and I'm
free to be my own worst critic;) Also, too many compliments can be bad as well, they make
you too content.
kese
>
Syke
Kese wrote:
> Syke wrote:
>
> > Kese wrote:
> >
> > > Shawnta...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > Mememememem! I got a pencil a scanner and web access! I can draw, really I can!
> > Then again, I notice something throughout the furry scene, no matter how someone
> > draws, half the ppl who see it will say it's good :) It's IMPOSSIBLE for someone to
> > sit there and take anyone's critiques seriously when they say it's good, and then you
> > have those ppl who destroy promising artists by being overly critical :P
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of showing your art or writing to the public. I know what
> you mean, I've been there and can remember taking a scholarship test for a big prestigous
> art school and having the panel tear my work to shreds.(Didn't get the scholarship but
> got accepted, too bad the price tag was so damn high:P) It's what happens to and should
> be expected by anyone that puts their creative efforts into the public forum. Develop a
> thick skin is my best advice. Sure most ppl wil be encouraging and not insult outright,
> but there are tactless idiots out there more than happy to stomp on your ego:P
That's why I don't want to go to an art school >:) It makes NO sense to go to a place that
only destroys self esteem and a lot of good artists have low self esteem, what you get is a
buncha carbon copy artists who draw the same way. What I wouldn't give for the art schools
that I read about in my art history books :P I'll just sit here and do my art for my pleasure
as a hobby, if anyone likes it, fine, if not, they can go look at something else they do like
:P
Kese
Syke wrote:
> Kese wrote:
>
> > Syke wrote:
> >
> > > Kese wrote:
> > >
>
> That's why I don't want to go to an art school >:) It makes NO sense to go to a place that
> only destroys self esteem and a lot of good artists have low self esteem, what you get is a
> buncha carbon copy artists who draw the same way. What I wouldn't give for the art schools
> that I read about in my art history books :P I'll just sit here and do my art for my pleasure
> as a hobby, if anyone likes it, fine, if not, they can go look at something else they do like
I think for the hobbyist and the "pro" there's two very different critirea that they have to
meet. I would love to be able to make a full time or part time living off of doing something I
love. It gives me satisfaction like nothing else. Which is why I tend to be a very harsh critic
of my own work.
I haven't taken any art classes either, mostly due to family pressure to not waste my time in
their words and also due to finiancial pressure(my single mom couldn't afford college, but we
weren't broke enough for lots of aid, typical:P) So I taught myself and learned by trial and
error. Sure this will make it a bit more difficult in the end to find a job in the field, but I
figure a well rounded portfolio can get you far if you're ambitous enough.
For a hobbyist all you should do is work on pleasing yourself. Once you stop doing that it's no
longer fun and pretty useless as a hobby:P
kese
>
M S
God damn are you guys stupid. Or cowards, whatever. Let's face it
furries draw like shit because they are too stubborn to admit they dont
know everything and are ashamed of the fact they might be able to learn
something new that could really help their art. Most professional
artists( THE ONES WHO MAKE MONEY ) have at least 4 years of life
drawing, anatomy, and art history. Most furries bastardize the Disney or
WB style or copy Japanimation drawings.
Maybe if furries were actually capable of matching the artistic skill of
fellow animators there would be more respect for the art as a whole. And
dont tell me all about Terrie Smith or ......the one or two other furry
arists who can copy a playboy pinup a put a tail on it. Just remember
the artists who drew The Lion King can also draw people, backgrounds,
cars, you name it. Broaden your horizons my friends, quit obsessing on
wolves and various other canines( or cats,whatever)
and open yourself to learning new skills.
You can say whatever you want about what I've said here but tomorrow
I'll go back to my $1400 a week animation job and thank god I forced
myself to learn.
Best of luck to all you angry starving artists.
Syke
Kese wrote:
Urm, ... I took classes but failed them due to them burning me out COMPLETELY. I took a drawing I
and drawing II class, did ok in Drawing I, drawing II was a different matter, you can only be
forced to draw scribbles and circles and take the long way so many times before you go completely
insane after trying for years previously before that to be a good artist without using the standard
backups, only to be forced by someone who THINKS they are teaching you how to draw correctly.
Although, I did learn nifty things to do with an eraser I haven't used in a long time. You can
only draw so many still lifes and trees *I really, really, REALLY hate trees* before it affects you
:P
My parents encouraged me to follow what I wanted to do, and I'm going to be a computer animator in
three years time >:) Most of the art I do now is for my own benefit, I want the characters to go
along with my stories and that's why a few other artists draw I've noticed. Right now, as a
hobbyist, my work pleases me, ... for now. I still try other things and I'm going to try real
painting someday when I can afford paints >:)
> kese
Syke
M S wrote:
> God damn are you guys stupid. Or cowards, whatever. Let's face it
> furries draw like shit because they are too stubborn to admit they dont
> know everything and are ashamed of the fact they might be able to learn
> something new that could really help their art. Most professional
> artists( THE ONES WHO MAKE MONEY ) have at least 4 years of life
> drawing, anatomy, and art history. Most furries bastardize the Disney or
> WB style or copy Japanimation drawings.
Disney Sucks, WB sucks, Japanimation is awesome but not realistic enough for
my tastes, I do stuff my own way and I've had over 4 years of *natural* life
drawing, I can go outside and draw nature and have since I was 11, I've had
a darn lot of art history, some of it on my own simply because the artists
fascinate me and as for anatomy ... I put too much emphasis on it at one
point as I was going to be a vetranarian >:) *which I can't even spell
anymore* Anatomy and Physiology helped me more than any art class, the art
classes at my high school were nothing.
Mostly, I'd say they draw like that because they aren't encouraged to
improve , people say it's good and go on from there.
> Maybe if furries were actually capable of matching the artistic skill of
> fellow animators there would be more respect for the art as a whole. And
> dont tell me all about Terrie Smith or ......the one or two other furry
> arists who can copy a playboy pinup a put a tail on it. Just remember
> the artists who drew The Lion King can also draw people, backgrounds,
> cars, you name it. Broaden your horizons my friends, quit obsessing on
> wolves and various other canines( or cats,whatever)
> and open yourself to learning new skills.
Terrie Smith *isn't* that good from what I've seen of her work, maybe it was
older work, but it *isn't* that good, maybe it's because I'm not deluged in
fanzines with her work in them, but that's a personal opinion. Copying
something from a picture is completely different from drawing straight from
your mind anyway. For awhile, I wouldn't draw humans cause they were harder
to draw >:) and I suspect a lot of ppl don't draw humans simply because
they're in the furry scene and hey... people want to see furries, not
humans. My humans are rather anime in appearance, because I like them that
way, I used to over detail them, as for backgrounds, sometimes people are
just too lazy to do them even if they can, it's the main character that ppl
want to look at and besides, most of these *inadequate* artists aren't being
paid to do this nor want to. If you don't want a buncha garbage art, then
tell people they should improve, in a nice way and help them do it :P
> You can say whatever you want about what I've said here but tomorrow
> I'll go back to my $1400 a week animation job and thank god I forced
> myself to learn.
> Best of luck to all you angry starving artists.
For 1400 a week, anyone would force themselves to learn :P It's only people
who are truly devoted to learning the correct methods and improving their
own art that get anywhere. *shrug* I dunno, are most artists hobbyists, or
trying to do it for a living in the furry genre?
Kese
M S wrote:
> God damn are you guys stupid. Or cowards, whatever. Let's face it
> furries draw like shit because they are too stubborn to admit they dont
> know everything and are ashamed of the fact they might be able to learn
> something new that could really help their art. Most professional
> artists( THE ONES WHO MAKE MONEY ) have at least 4 years of life
> drawing, anatomy, and art history. Most furries bastardize the Disney or
> WB style or copy Japanimation drawings.
Surely you realize that vast majority of these folks are very young(17-20)
and probably are just enjoying the fact that they are getting some sort of
recognition for their art and doing basically what they know the "fandom"
will want.
Many of these people are 1.either not interested in a professional career or
2. not quite old enough for college and experimenting now with furry.
I agree with you that the lack of flexiablity is a problem. It's something I
also recoginized in myself as I was letting my skills in drawing things
other than anthros fall by the wayside.
I think you're making a mistake when you assume that some of those artists
aren't doing art other than anthro, fact is you might nor be seeing that
art. Not everything gets posted to the internet.
> Maybe if furries were actually capable of matching the artistic skill of
> fellow animators there would be more respect for the art as a whole. And
> dont tell me all about Terrie Smith or ......the one or two other furry
> arists who can copy a playboy pinup a put a tail on it. Just remember
> the artists who drew The Lion King can also draw people, backgrounds,
> cars, you name it. Broaden your horizons my friends, quit obsessing on
> wolves and various other canines( or cats,whatever)
> and open yourself to learning new skills.
No argument there except with your tone. But again remember a lot of these
people are kids and right now are playing around with an art genre. For
those that are not kids but just doing only that sort of art; perhaps they
are happy with what they get out of furry and their interest stops there.
There's no problem there in and of itself unless they've decided that they
want a career in animation or whatever. Then it's time to drop the WB style
and work on the other things.
>
Bev Clark/Steve Gallacci
The "problem" with much of the furry art on the web is that it is done
by fan/amateurs. This is not unique to furry fandom, as any fandom with a
visual component will provoke fannish attempts at art, and the line
between fan/pro and good/bad art gets contentious.
Where the real problem lies is not in the fan art, but in defining the
fandom by it. This could be very bad, like the period in Star Trek fandom
inwhich it appeared that the whole fandom was centered on a supposed
homoerotic relationship between Kirk and Spock (I kid you not!).
Furry fandom does have the awkward situation in that the line between fan
and pro is more blurred, with the unclear transition between fanzine and
prozine and artshow/dealers room sales of art and such. In most other
fandoms, genres, or mediums the calibre of work considered as pro is
ususally fairly clear cut and expectations are more often set fairly high.
This is not to say that a furry artist can't make that kind of cut, but
that in the insular fannish subset, the general level of expectaion and
of limited broader experiance is such that truely top-caliber work is not
expected or demanded. This leaves a fannish hopeful artist with the
handicap of supported underacheavment, not doing his/her best, but only
jsut good enough to get by (or not knowing that there is a higher level).
Shawnta...@my-dejanews.com
In article <3561193D...@mindspring.com>,
points that
> > were not mentioned in their compliment >:) I've had a bit of constructive
criticism,
> > and as for my submissions to fanzines... I've never seen a fanzine which
is why I'm a
> > bit iffy of trying to contribute, I want to be at the level that's there.
>
> It helps to take a look at the status quo and then try to exceed it. I
haven't posted
> anything lately due to the fact I've been spending a solid month sketching
and life
> drawing in an effort to boost my skill. That way the pressure to "perform"
is off and I'm
> free to be my own worst critic;) Also, too many compliments can be bad as
well, they make
> you too content.
>
> kese
>
> >
>
>
Hi Kese,
I sure hope that I didn't come off as being the critic from hell or something
I just see a lot of fair artist that have the chance to be really good, who
cares if they do it for a living, which personally if you draw for a check
instead of the love what's the point? I like amature stuff cause it's like
you know, that garage band playing and trying to make it big. Furry needs
it's amatures. I'm just saying don't be content with how you're drawing
now. Keep working, lord knows I'm always trying to improve my style and
work out kinks that sometimes only I see. And Syke, keep at it. Folks will
have their opinion one way or another, just as long as you're happy with
yourself, I guess that's all that matters. HMMM. Good topic though. I'm
gonna like this board. Now if I can only figure out how to find the replys
to my posts without looking at all 11,000 or so post. OY!
Ebony Leopard lurking back into the urban jungle.
Louis Lightpaw
Syke wrote in message <35615A26...@dallas.crosswinds.net>...
>
>
>M S wrote:
>
>> God damn are you guys stupid. Or cowards, whatever. Let's face it
>> furries draw like shit because they are too stubborn to admit they dont
>> know everything and are ashamed of the fact they might be able to learn
>> something new that could really help their art.
Stop the presses! Here's a fur who can admit he doesn't know everything!
You're right (sadly), that I'd probably improve if I took the time to draw
things other than furries, but I don't really have the time, being "busy"
all the time. Besides, I'm an author not an artist. And I'm not saying that
I'm one of the best authors out there (I know I need a little work there),
but I am better at it than my art. (Thank God that writing is one art form
where doing things in one Genre is not a sign of a bad writer.)
>> Most professional
>> artists( THE ONES WHO MAKE MONEY ) have at least 4 years of life
>> drawing, anatomy, and art history. Most furries bastardize the Disney or
>> WB style or copy Japanimation drawings.
Well most furries are: Suprise! Fans... Yes that wonderful word that can
mean "We try to draw good, but If it looks bad, we don't care, we don't get
paid!) And don't complain that if you're not good you shouldn't show,
because we should apply the same things to posters.
>Mostly, I'd say they draw like that because they aren't encouraged to
>improve , people say it's good and go on from there.
>
"Always get a second opinion. After that get another one." -Me
>> Maybe if furries were actually capable of matching the artistic skill of
>> fellow animators there would be more respect for the art as a whole. And
>> dont tell me all about Terrie Smith or ......the one or two other furry
>> arists who can copy a playboy pinup a put a tail on it. Just remember
>> the artists who drew The Lion King can also draw people, backgrounds,
>> cars, you name it. Broaden your horizons my friends, quit obsessing on
>> wolves and various other canines( or cats,whatever)
>> and open yourself to learning new skills.
I'm going to do that, hold on.
>Copying
>something from a picture is completely different from drawing straight from
>your mind anyway.
True, but expirence from looking at pictures can soon lead to ability
straight from your head. I would suggest that people do take a look at
pictures and try to copy them, (Just don't put it off as your own, it's only
for study) then develop their own style. I first drew my eyes and head in my
strip ala Doonesbury. But soon, I got rid of the eyelid line and studied the
shape of the head and drew it more to real life. Now, when I do the strip, I
make lines with dots for the eyes (ala Daria, but it's more out of laziness)
and I use different eyes for more realistic drawing. True I could use some
work on depth, but that'll come up.
>For awhile, I wouldn't draw humans cause they were harder
>to draw >:) and I suspect a lot of ppl don't draw humans simply because
>they're in the furry scene and hey... people want to see furries, not
>humans.
Exactly. I mean if the next Stephen King book comes out, and it's a love
story, not that many people are going to read it.
>> You can say whatever you want about what I've said here but tomorrow
>> I'll go back to my $1400 a week animation job and thank god I forced
>> myself to learn.
Ahhh, Grasshopper, but If you force yourself to learn have you truly
learned? Forcing yourself to learn is good in a pinch, but It's better to
learn at your own pace. At my pace I'll be turning out realistic drawings at
say...2010?
>> Best of luck to all you angry starving artists.
GRRRR! I'm an angry starving artist! Give me food and/or money! GRRRR! Will
draw Disney-Style characters for food! GRRRR! ; )
Louis Lightpaw
? the platypus {aka David Formosa}
In <35617D59...@mindspring.com> Kese <soll...@mindspring.com> writes:
>M S wrote:
[...]
>>. Most furries bastardize the Disney or
>> WB style or copy Japanimation drawings.
> Surely you realize that vast majority of these folks are very young(17-20)
>and probably are just enjoying the fact that they are getting some sort of
>recognition for their art and doing basically what they know the "fandom"
>will want.
In deed part of most artists early training have been copying the works of
others, weather by makeing repoductions or by copieing there style. I
don't consider it unusal that before thay have devoloped there own style
meany furrys have made use of others.
--
I'm a perl programer; if you need perl programing, hire me.
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia; see the url. Support NoCeM
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html http://www.cm.org/
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yucky' a convincing argument
RoofShadow
Shawnta...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> *Flame Shields*
>
> Okay, time to take the plunge. I've noticed something in the two and a half
> years of web-surfing and looking at furry sites and pages and I've come to
> the conclusion that, well, a LOT of work needs to be done with these web
> artist. Now, I'm not saying they're bad, but I'm not saying they're good
> do drawings and try to visually express their attraction to the art form, but
> school needs to be in session. Form folks, you must work on your form. Get
> some nature books, anatomy books. Read them, study them. Know what you're
> drawing before you draw it. I'm not even going to touch on the spooge thing,
> a term I learned last year, but hey if you must draw it DO IT RIGHT. Again
> you can't draw something you've never seen.
>
> their craft and create their own style. Anyone can make a webpage and post
> art but not everyone can do art really worth viewing. Does than mean stop?
> Heck no, never stop that's the point. Keep working on it. There's a lot of
> potential out there, but the skills aren't being tapped.
>
> the fun. By the way, my tactical skills are pretty weak right now thanks to
> finals so no flame wars ok. (Who named them flame wars anyway?)
>
>
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Okay, well. Very good point... But, did you ever think that some of
those other rookie artists might be -trying- to improve? I certainly
did... A'course, I don't have a web page, so you can't complain about my
art ;) But if you want me to, I'll send you a pic I drew a year ago,
and one I drew but a few days ago (should still be up on
fur.artwork.misc I think...:) But you've still got a point. But
then, who cares? I mean, if they want to go and draw their pictures,
let them. It's not as if they're forcing them on you. Just like that
furson's suggestion about the Adult categories and stuff like that
(don't remember whose :) Just don't look! Ah well.
--
-RoofShadow S.
\________________________/
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Scratch that last stereotype to reply :)
*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&**&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*
RoofShadow
M S wrote:
>
> God damn are you guys stupid. Or cowards, whatever.
*hrmms and thinks this guy's had a bad day? No?*
Let's face it
> furries draw like shit because they are too stubborn to admit they dont
> know everything and are ashamed of the fact they might be able to learn
> something new that could really help their art.
That, or, my irascible friend, they simply don't have that, er, drawing
gene, or knack, or whatever you want to call it. It's like sports, or
being smart. Some have it, and some don't! Now, I do admit, there are
a lot of artists who have potential, but don't really develop that
potential, but mayhap it's because they don't really care what others
think of their art! They may just be drawing to remember a particular
incident, or just to get rid of some creative energy.
Most professional
> artists( THE ONES WHO MAKE MONEY ) have at least 4 years of life
> drawing, anatomy, and art history. Most furries bastardize the Disney or
> WB style or copy Japanimation drawings.
Okay, I agree on the Disney thing. That stuff's copyrighted, and
really has been driven into the ground with media and junk. No one wants
to see Mickey Mouse any more. But Anime, that's another story
altogether. It's not particular characters, but rather a style. It's
characterized by the large eyes (to show emotions) Small noses and
mouths, and, er, extreme violence ;) Some furs may like that style...
So therefore they develop their techniques more towards looking like
Anime. As an analogy, it's just like me. I love Ravenwolf's drawing
style. The things that I think are the most interesting and appealing,
I try to incorporate into my own style. I'm not -copying- his style,
just using it as a reference, something to help -me- improve my
technique. But then, I'm sure somefur will find some way to prove me
wrong. Ah well. This is me pretending I care =^.^=
> Maybe if furries were actually capable of matching the artistic skill of
> fellow animators there would be more respect for the art as a whole. And
> dont tell me all about Terrie Smith or ......the one or two other furry
> arists who can copy a playboy pinup a put a tail on it.
*hrmms and nods* Good point. Never thought about that... :)
Just remember
> the artists who drew The Lion King can also draw people, backgrounds,
> cars, you name it. Broaden your horizons my friends, quit obsessing on
> wolves and various other canines( or cats,whatever)
> and open yourself to learning new skills.
> You can say whatever you want about what I've said here but tomorrow
> I'll go back to my $1400 a week animation job and thank god I forced
> myself to learn.
> Best of luck to all you angry starving artists.
Angry, no, just a bit irked. but othewise a'right ;) And you have a
nice day to, my good man. :P
M S
No, i didnt realize most furries were that young( As a matter of fact
any furry I have ever seen or met had to be at least 30 years old. (
either that or they just don't age well.) not young ones. By the way,
I'm only 24 myself. Age should not be an excuse.
Syke
I waited until I went through all the posts to respond, as an artist and an amatuer
:)
RoofShadow wrote:
> M S wrote:
> >
> > God damn are you guys stupid. Or cowards, whatever.
>
> *hrmms and thinks this guy's had a bad day? No?*
Yupyup.
>
>
> Let's face it
> > furries draw like shit because they are too stubborn to admit they dont
> > know everything and are ashamed of the fact they might be able to learn
> > something new that could really help their art.
>
> That, or, my irascible friend, they simply don't have that, er, drawing
> gene, or knack, or whatever you want to call it. It's like sports, or
> being smart. Some have it, and some don't! Now, I do admit, there are
> a lot of artists who have potential, but don't really develop that
> potential, but mayhap it's because they don't really care what others
> think of their art! They may just be drawing to remember a particular
> incident, or just to get rid of some creative energy.
That's very darn true, there are people with natural talent and those who have
towork at it and never quite catch on. Then there are those who you can't really
tell if they have potential or not, btw, I do have a webpage with my art on it,
it's at the bottom in my sig as someone found out earlier, so before thinking that
I am one of these second rate spooge artists that are so often talked about, take a
look.
I want to develop to my full potential as an artist and I have improved drastically
from my first post on yerf to my last, and thanks to the tips on eyes and scanning,
that was more help than can be imagined. I would be lying if I said I didn't care
what people think about my art, but I'm more concerned with what those people who I
consider GOOD artists think of my work. An outsider who knows nothing about art
other than to critique it is not someone I will take seriously, because they
haven't experienced what they are talking about for the most part, although, some
people who are not artists do have a good eye for art.
>
>
> Most professional
> > artists( THE ONES WHO MAKE MONEY ) have at least 4 years of life
> > drawing, anatomy, and art history. Most furries bastardize the Disney or
> > WB style or copy Japanimation drawings.
>
> Okay, I agree on the Disney thing. That stuff's copyrighted, and
> really has been driven into the ground with media and junk. No one wants
> to see Mickey Mouse any more. But Anime, that's another story
> altogether. It's not particular characters, but rather a style. It's
> characterized by the large eyes (to show emotions) Small noses and
> mouths, and, er, extreme violence ;) Some furs may like that style...
> So therefore they develop their techniques more towards looking like
> Anime. As an analogy, it's just like me. I love Ravenwolf's drawing
> style. The things that I think are the most interesting and appealing,
> I try to incorporate into my own style. I'm not -copying- his style,
> just using it as a reference, something to help -me- improve my
> technique. But then, I'm sure somefur will find some way to prove me
> wrong. Ah well. This is me pretending I care =^.^=
Heh, would you believe the only Disney character I ever drew was Thumper, when I
was 11 :) I don't remember drawing any others, although I want to do a
particularly evil one of Mickey Mouse - like icon to display my dislike of the
company. While I'm at it, I was recently compared to Ravenwolf, who I just saw art
by this morning :P No, I did not copy it, it's just what I've developed over the
years and like and when I looked there's some big difference I could point out.
I only really direct my humans to looking more anime, because I LIKE the look, and
my furries are not as anime in anything except I like giving them long legs and
sometimes play with the eyes, but they're not overly large and cartoony, being more
normal. References are fantastic, and always a good starting tool as anyone can
say, I wonder just how many artists started out tracing something? I know I did,
and then I'd copy things I'd see until I started copying real life. Now, I don't
usually use models but draw straight from my head, that's my style.
>
>
> > Maybe if furries were actually capable of matching the artistic skill of
> > fellow animators there would be more respect for the art as a whole. And
> > dont tell me all about Terrie Smith or ......the one or two other furry
> > arists who can copy a playboy pinup a put a tail on it.
>
> *hrmms and nods* Good point. Never thought about that... :)
>
> Just remember
> > the artists who drew The Lion King can also draw people, backgrounds,
> > cars, you name it. Broaden your horizons my friends, quit obsessing on
> > wolves and various other canines( or cats,whatever)
> > and open yourself to learning new skills.
> > You can say whatever you want about what I've said here but tomorrow
> > I'll go back to my $1400 a week animation job and thank god I forced
> > myself to learn.
> > Best of luck to all you angry starving artists.
>
> Angry, no, just a bit irked. but othewise a'right ;) And you have a
> nice day to, my good man. :P
Already commented on the above :)
> --
>
> -RoofShadow S.
> \________________________/
> |@Sherwood/NIMH/DarkEarth|
> /------------------------\
> *&*&*&* roo...@hotmail.com *&*&*&*& ntk...@airmail.net *&*&*&*&*
> "...Men at some times are masters of their fate. The fault, dear
> Brutus, is not in out stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings."
>
> -Shakespeare "Julius Caesar"
>
> Scratch that last stereotype to reply :)
> *&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&**&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*
-- Syke
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homepage:http://www2.fortunecity.com/roswell/bacon/2/home.html
Kese
M S wrote:
Never said it was an excuse to accept crappy artwork but youth does
excuse in some ways the choice of subject matter and degree of skill.
Now let's be clear about what we're talking about here. My gripe is with
the artist who can't draw anatomy or anything other than one given
speices. To me it's taking what could be an infinately interesting
subject and turning it into some tedious. That to me is the main problem
with furry artists. But again, these are -fan- artists we're talking
about here not people who are involved in an art centered career and
probably never will be. Expectations should be lowered as many of them
are not interested in becoming "whole" artists and are satisfied with
what they do.
Myself the average furry(I hate calling people that for some reason)I've
met has been around age 19-25.
kese
Kese
>
>
> Hi Kese,
>
> I sure hope that I didn't come off as being the critic from hell or something
> I just see a lot of fair artist that have the chance to be really good, who
> cares if they do it for a living, which personally if you draw for a check
> instead of the love what's the point? I like amature stuff cause it's like
> you know, that garage band playing and trying to make it big. Furry needs
> it's amatures. I'm just saying don't be content with how you're drawing
> now. Keep working, lord knows I'm always trying to improve my style and
> work out kinks that sometimes only I see.
My point as well. Personally I have a lot of problems with much of the art I see
out there and do find myself frustrated with the lack of skill and imagination
present in most of the artists who sell and sell well.I can understand the kinks
that only you can see thing. People seem to like my work, but I look again at it a
week or two later and hate it. No one critiques me better than myself. But then
again I'm hopelessly critical about eveything I do:P
kese
>
M S
I need TP for my bunghole!
M S
Are you threatening me? I am Cornholio!!!
Matt Harpold
>I sure hope that I didn't come off as being the critic from hell or
something
>I just see a lot of fair artist that have the chance to be really good, who
>cares if they do it for a living, which personally if you draw for a check
>instead of the love what's the point?
Peoplw who are working professionally in the field are working because they
have put a DIZZYING amount of effort into perfecting their craft. It's a
field which is an order of magnitude more competitive than most professions.
You'd have to want to act for a living to find a more competitive field. ;-)
If that doesn't show love of art, nothing on God's green earth does.
I see a lot of people who trash on professional illustrators, when in truth,
nobody is as dedicated to the art as the professionals are, because they're
the ones who had to work and endure the most. And being someone who plans on
going into professional illustration, I can guaratee you that I'm doing it
for the love of it. I want to do it all the time, or I wouldn't be trying to
make a living at it.
I like amature stuff cause it's like
>you know, that garage band playing and trying to make it big. Furry needs
>it's amatures.
Now, if only the amateur artists would value the craft over their need to be
patted on the back... Everyone wants to post their work on the Web for the
world to see, but nobody seems to want to pay their dues, and spend long
hours drawing things that aren't cute or fun, like still lifes or the human
form.
-Matt Harpold
Zoo.topia: fine art and illustration portfolio
http://zipcon.net/mharpold/zootopia
AllanGldmn
In article <6jrc6m$9v4$1...@newsd-154.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, matts...@webtv.net
(M S) writes:
>
>You can say whatever you want about what I've said here but tomorrow
>I'll go back to my $1400 a week animation job and thank god I forced
>myself to learn. Best of luck to all you angry starving artists.
M S, please stop lying - Your really very bad at it! Shall I dig up a few more
examples? Deja News is SUCH fun!
Al Goldman (who will repost this whenever it is required)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Subject: Time to fess up...
From: matts...@webtv.net (M S)
Date: 1998/03/21
Message-ID: <6f1mqg$q1k$1...@newsd-154.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
[More Headers]
[Subscribe to alt.fan.furry]
You caught me. I've been posting as an angry animator on many newsgroups
for some time. I'm surprised at how gullible you people are. I don't
have the slightest idea what I'm talking about. I work at StarBucks for
christs sake and i'm a chronic liar. My real name is Chris. sorry.
The Saprophyte
One gets the impression someone's never heard of the Peter Principle. :)
It's interesting to note though that nobody seems to be complaining
that Small Press is dragging down the entire Comics industry.
(at least not that I've heard) The only difference would seem to be
that Small press and regular comics don't travel in the same circles
like high end and low end furry art. Personally I think some of the
big kids just don't want the little kids playing on their junglegym. :)
There is no "low art" any more anyways. I've seen coffeetable books
devoted to childrens refrigerater scribbles. There's even a Museum
of Bad Art. In 100yrs time they'll probably be calling the less
than perfect furry art "Morphic Naive" or "Furry Primitive".
It'll turn up in the back of old picture frames and be appraised
for huge amounts on Antiques Road Show. Then who'll have the
last laugh? :)
Where's Amara? I want to hear a Wookie artist's point of view. :)
The Saprophyte
--
thesap...@fillers.usa.net
this address contains no spam,
artificial preservatives
or added fillers.
Syke
M S wrote:
> No, i didnt realize most furries were that young( As a matter of fact
> any furry I have ever seen or met had to be at least 30 years old. (
> either that or they just don't age well.) not young ones. By the way,
> I'm only 24 myself. Age should not be an excuse.
That's kinda silly, for one thing, a lot of parents won't let their under
18 children
out of their homes to go to conventions with tons of strangers,
especially if they've
heard the rumor about furry oriented places being ridden with
pedophiles. So it makes sense not
to have met many, and by the way, I'm 22.
Tamar_...@my-dejanews.com
In article <3562414A...@mindspring.com>,
Kese <soll...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Kese,
> >
> > I sure hope that I didn't come off as being the critic from hell or
something
> > I just see a lot of fair artist that have the chance to be really good,
who
> > cares if they do it for a living, which personally if you draw for a check
like
> > you know, that garage band playing and trying to make it big. Furry needs
> > now. Keep working, lord knows I'm always trying to improve my style and
> > work out kinks that sometimes only I see.
>
> My point as well. Personally I have a lot of problems with much of the art
I see
> out there and do find myself frustrated with the lack of skill and
imagination
> present in most of the artists who sell and sell well.I can understand the
kinks
> that only you can see thing. People seem to like my work, but I look again
at it a
> week or two later and hate it. No one critiques me better than myself. But
then
> again I'm hopelessly critical about eveything I do:P
>
> kese
>
> >
suck, but someone will come up and say "It looks fine to me." Ha, I'm
glad I did find out about this fandom, cause just judging by this newsgroup
folks will really let you know what you're doing good or bad. To be honest
I had know idea that my original post, which was just made to start up
simple conversation, would spark such a response. Live and learn I guess,
cause a spark in this gassy group :) can really start up alot of flames.
Ebony Leopard
Paul R. Bennett
Well, in regards to the practice of drawing circles and lines.
Look at it this way, used to be when learning to play a musical
instrument, you learned both to read music and practiced on playing
scales and chords(still may be for all I know, been a lot of years)
Some people may be fortune enough to have the hand-eye coordination
to manage the basic skills right off the bat. Others(probably most
of us) develop those skills after hard work. Now computer graphics
and animation is probably a whole 'nother ballpark...
And then you get into compostion, space use, colors... All of which
add together to produce the graphics art being produced. Again,
probably for a lot of us, something learned through both instruction
and practice.
I come out of the amateur photography side of the house. Had a couple
of courses one time and another. I am used to using/carrying a camera
and thinking along those lines. To convert to drawing or painting is
a real, time consuming, wrench of the mental processes(although a
useful one). I try to use the two to complement each other. For instance,
I may get the flash of a mental image of a picture I want to draw. I can
"see" it in my mind. Now I have to translate it to paper (which is where
life gets interesting as I am still working on the hand/eye coordination
that requires. It also gets... real... slow...) As I mostly work
landscape and still life, I probably have photographed the material I
need for the backdrop(I have photographed... which can get interesting
when one is standing up to one's nuggies or deeper in a Furrida swamp
or has spent several hours hiking a trail in the midsummer sun and is
sweating rivers) (Furrida... Mr. Furlong... Thanks for that one...
I LIKE it!). Rummagerummagerummage time through my photo stock (after
some forty years interesting in and of itself.) Come up with several
pictures(with memories of the rattlesnake that chased me in that one
or falling off those rocks into the ocean or that spectacular time that
sandbar I stepped on turned out to be a quicksand bar) or my latest
little escapade(which may actually make it to the net I need to look into
that incorporating copyright in the picture business.). Okay, from
the assembled pictures develop the feel I want for the background and
how it fits with whatever I am doing in the foreground.
Did I say graphicly my work is s... l... o... w...? Well, it is. I am
also fussy. :> A lot gets trashed (with loud snarls).
Okay, pencils(although I may go back to charcoals) all done. Ink time.
(or color if I am feeling real fool.. er ambituous.) So, eventually,
after many exciting moments(hours) and occasionally exercising my
vocabulary, I may actually get a piece of artwork finished that may
approach what I regard as acceptable. (I said acceptable, didn't
say I was totally satisfied with it.)
If, from this, you get the impression that graphics art is a very painful
and time consuming effort for me, well, yup... Why do it? Because...
That is the only answer I can give.
Paul
RoofShadow
M S wrote:
>
> Are you threatening me? I am Cornholio!!!
*chuckles fakely and wipes away a mock tear* Oh, my goodness me... The
sophistication of the humour is overwhelming..
The Saprophyte
Amy 'Amara' Pronovost wrote:
>
> On Wed, 20 May 1998 01:11:26 -0400, The Saprophyte
> <NormD...@nolocale.com> was chased around by rabid Ewoks for
> posting this drivel!
>
> > Where's Amara? I want to hear a Wookie artist's point of view. :)
> >The Saprophyte
>
>
> Oh, wait.. that's Yoda.. but still, you get what I mean.
>
> I've been lurking, reading, and deciding that I dont really want to
> leap in with an asbestos suit ;)
>
The force is strong in this one. :) Honestly, I wouldn't have drawn
you in to this but they made that one just too, too, easy for me. :)
? the platypus {aka David Formosa}
In <35677f9a...@news.foxnet.net> am...@nais.com (Amy 'Amara' Pronovost) writes:
[...]
>I've also noticed that 3 out of 4 furry artists can't code html to
>save temselves ;) If you take offense to that, go pick up html for
>dummies, open up a notepad and improve your page :)
No don't get html for dummies, get "HTML: The Definitive Guide" its got
a Koala on the cover. This book is far better then any other HTML book
i've seen, and its got a cute animal.
Richard de Wylfin
In article <356265...@nolocale.com>, The Saprophyte
<NormD...@nolocale.com> wrote:
~One gets the impression someone's never heard of the Peter Principle. :)
~It's interesting to note though that nobody seems to be complaining
~that Small Press is dragging down the entire Comics industry.
~(at least not that I've heard) The only difference would seem to be
~that Small press and regular comics don't travel in the same circles
~like high end and low end furry art. Personally I think some of the
~big kids just don't want the little kids playing on their junglegym. :)
~ There is no "low art" any more anyways. I've seen coffeetable books
~devoted to childrens refrigerater scribbles. There's even a Museum
~of Bad Art. In 100yrs time they'll probably be calling the less
~than perfect furry art "Morphic Naive" or "Furry Primitive".
~It'll turn up in the back of old picture frames and be appraised
~for huge amounts on Antiques Road Show. Then who'll have the
~last laugh? :)
~ Where's Amara? I want to hear a Wookie artist's point of view. :)
~The Saprophyte
Have you tried asking Wookie (aka Nakira) himself? Now THERE's an artist.
^ ^
o-o
+
richard de wylfin http://i.am/a.furry.fox
Jack Furlong - Artist/MUCKer
>when one is standing up to one's nuggies or deeper in a Furrida swamp
>or has spent several hours hiking a trail in the midsummer sun and is
>sweating rivers) (Furrida... Mr. Furlong... Thanks for that one...
*chuckles*
That one's not _actually_ mine, a friend on FurryMUCK invented it.
After the start of this thread,
(which reminded me of a slap in the face with a cold dead mackerel)
I'm trying to just lurk..
Farlo
Jack Furlong - Artist/MUCKer did speaketh thus:
>(which reminded me of a slap in the face with a cold dead mackerel)
>I'm trying to just lurk..
Any suggestions on how *I* can get slapped in the face
with a ... *drool*... cold dead mackerel?
I will eat mackerel, tho tuna is better, imo.
Jim Doolittle
In article <6jr0q7$eut$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
Shawnta...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Well, that's my two cents. Now to join Ms. Light in the bleachers and watch
> the fun. By the way, my tactical skills are pretty weak right now thanks to
> finals so no flame wars ok. (Who named them flame wars anyway?)
Hey, check out that tac nuke coming your way...Duck! ;)
-Jim, who finished finals last week. Phew.
--
Jim Doolittle
dool...@uiuc.edu
http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/doolittl
Mike Hammond
M S <matts...@webtv.net> wrote:
: God damn are you guys stupid. Or cowards, whatever. Let's face it
: furries draw like shit because they are too stubborn to admit they dont
: know everything and are ashamed of the fact they might be able to learn
: artists( THE ONES WHO MAKE MONEY ) have at least 4 years of life
: drawing, anatomy, and art history. Most furries bastardize the Disney or
: WB style or copy Japanimation drawings.
I'm a hobbist who figures he could've become a great artist if he had
worked constantly at his work (I started drawing in 1986). I even took an
Art Minor in drawing when I got the chance. But did I work at it?
NOOOO! I'm still just a hobbiest who draws only occasionally and realizes
that I have talent, talent I wasted by not practicing.
However, the ability to show my work to other fans (whether its bad art or
not) has made me more interested in honing my talent. But I'm so involved
in just about everything else. +:)
I have my own style, and don't bastardize others work, though I figure I
might learn a little more if I actually bothered to look at other people's
styles.
I just thank the gods that I don't live off what I draw.
Photogrammetry pays much better, thank you. :)
--
Cardinal Fang +The Divine Fox+ ho...@access.digex.net
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
* The One who is All has many faces. *
=======================================================================
SCFA: http://rat.org/furry/hammmike
Velan Archive: ftp://velar.ctrl-c.liu.se/vcl/Artists/Mike-Hammond
FC 1.3 FCFm3as/FLR3drs A++<+++ C-/+ D+ H M- P R+ T++ W? Z+ Sm S++
RLGP a31 cd++ d? e++ f h+ i+ j p~ sm
Amy 'Amara' Pronovost
That reminds me, Matt..
I have a newe Arty farty section on my hoame page,.
Long live the Weird coloured Bunch of Bananas! :)
Amy
On Tue, 19 May 1998 23:56:26 -0800, "Matt Harpold"
<mhar...@zipcon.net> was chased around by rabid Ewoks for posting
this drivel!
>
>>I sure hope that I didn't come off as being the critic from hell or
>something
>>I just see a lot of fair artist that have the chance to be really good, who
>>cares if they do it for a living, which personally if you draw for a check
>>instead of the love what's the point?
>
>Peoplw who are working professionally in the field are working because they
>have put a DIZZYING amount of effort into perfecting their craft. It's a
>field which is an order of magnitude more competitive than most professions.
>You'd have to want to act for a living to find a more competitive field. ;-)
>If that doesn't show love of art, nothing on God's green earth does.
>
>I see a lot of people who trash on professional illustrators, when in truth,
>nobody is as dedicated to the art as the professionals are, because they're
>the ones who had to work and endure the most. And being someone who plans on
>going into professional illustration, I can guaratee you that I'm doing it
>for the love of it. I want to do it all the time, or I wouldn't be trying to
>make a living at it.
>
> I like amature stuff cause it's like
>>you know, that garage band playing and trying to make it big. Furry needs
>>it's amatures.
>
Timothy Fay
I have a heck of a time drawing cars, too. :)
If you're having problems mastering lighting, then I reccomend
Berne Hogarth's book, "Dynamic Light and Shade." One of the best
ever published on the subject.
Good luck!
-Tim
--
"Hey, ho -- let's go!" -Ramones
ELynne
On Fri, 22 May 1998, Timothy Fay wrote:
> I have a heck of a time drawing cars, too. :)
> If you're having problems mastering lighting, then I reccomend
> Berne Hogarth's book, "Dynamic Light and Shade." One of the best
> ever published on the subject.
> Good luck!
> -Tim
And you can get it from Amazon.com, which is where I got his Dynamic
Figure Drawing (which has great pointers for poses, muscles, and facial
expressions, which can be extrapolated onto any kind of furrymorph, as
I've found!), and Dynamic Wrinkles and Folds, which is apparantly about
fabric and textures, which I'm sorely lacking in.
Now, I just have to send in the check, so Amazon.com will mail the books
to me...darn my refusal to use my credit card over the .net! ;)
-- Erin, Easily Amused
"Look, a bug!"
ELynne
On Tue, 19 May 1998, Matt Harpold wrote:
> I like amature stuff cause it's like
> >you know, that garage band playing and trying to make it big. Furry needs
> >it's amatures.
> Now, if only the amateur artists would value the craft over their need to be
> patted on the back... Everyone wants to post their work on the Web for the
> world to see, but nobody seems to want to pay their dues, and spend long
> hours drawing things that aren't cute or fun, like still lifes or the human
> form.
> -Matt Harpold
I guess I'd be comparable to the occasional weekend golfer (not that I
actually golf), who enjoys the walk through the fields almost more than
actually hitting the little ball or caring where it ends up. I could
really use some more practice on non-furry and non-dragon things, and I'm
getting it, a bit at a time--but at the same time I don't kid myself that
I'm any Picasso, or that anybody would nessecarily want to look at, care
about, or want to pay for the stuff I do. I'm very definitely a hobbyist
with room to improve, and I don't intend to ever upgrade from that...I
know I'm not dedicated enough.
On the other claw, I appreciate the heck out of good art, and would like
to find more ways to appreciate it in a more *ahem* quantifiable fashion!
I'll be at ConiFur, Matt...will you have pictures for sale? ;) I can't
guarantee that I'll like 'em enough to buy, but you and Aury are way up on
my list for artists to look for.
Just pitching pennies around...
Dan Pankratz
In article <Pine.SUN.3.96.98052...@mariner.cris.com>, ELynne <Ely...@cris.com> writes:
>
> Now, I just have to send in the check, so Amazon.com will mail the books
> to me...darn my refusal to use my credit card over the .net! ;)
Don't blame ya. Mine was stolen most likely online and $60 worth of porn site
subscriptions rung up on it before I found out. Luckily, all it ended up costing
me was the irritation, time wasted,and $10 to get the affadavit notarized.
-Dan
Dr. Cat
Amy 'Amara' Pronovost (am...@nais.com) wrote:
: That reminds me, Matt..
: I have a newe Arty farty section on my hoame page,.
: Long live the Weird coloured Bunch of Bananas! :)
And I thought you didn't do art that was about sex. Oh well, at least
you didn't do a picture that actually shows the bananas being inserted
into someone's ears...
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: Some people don't consider yellow to be a "weird" color for
bananas to be.)
BSu7739420
Huh?
Brian the Jackalboy
Mike Hammond
Oh. Never Mind. +:)
--
Cardinal Fang +The Divine Fox+ ho...@access.digex.net
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Die Jesu Domine, Domine Es Requium." (WHACK!) Repeat as necessary.
=======================================================================
Lupin...@my-dejanews.com
Flinthoof Ponypal
In article <6jrc6m$9v4$1...@newsd-154.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, matts...@webtv.net (M S) wrote:
>God damn are you guys stupid. Or cowards, whatever. Let's face it
>furries draw like shit because they are too stubborn to admit they dont
>know everything and are ashamed of the fact they might be able to learn
>something new that could really help their art.
Not the most civil way to make a point, but definately works to get
someone's attention and guarantee that anyone will take a defensive stance,
regardless of the actual intent.
I have yet to find anyplace online or in the print media where a fan
artist has screamed to the world in general, "Hey! Look at me! I'm great! I'm
absolutely fantastic! Worship me you lowly scum!" Actually most postings to
the 'Net are more along the lines of, "Here's something I did and am
presenting it to folks for their enjoyment. I admit it's not great, but I'm
happy with it." To spout off about their skills without showing proof would
be like bragging about their large weekly paycheck. Oh wait a sec, sorry,
didn't read your entire letter yet. Should have waited before I made that
comment.
>Most professional
>artists( THE ONES WHO MAKE MONEY ) have at least 4 years of life
>drawing, anatomy, and art history. Most furries bastardize the Disney or
>WB style or copy Japanimation drawings.
And most 'professional' artists also do not draw 'furry' artwork in
general. That's not to say they aren't capable of it, but instead that they
simply don't or we do not see what they do produce. Darrel K. Sweet is a
'professional' artist who has done a ton of book covers for novels a lot of us
have read. But given the choice between his art and 'furry' artwork by a
'fan' artist such as Sara Palmer (aka Caribou), I'd rather look at Sara's.
The difference between a 'fan' artist and a 'professional' is a very simple
one, and in fact you pointed it out yourself. A professional is THE ONE WHO
MAKES MONEY, while the fan artist is one who created the art because they
wanted to for the fun and pleasure of it. Is artwork coerced by financial
gain as heartfelt as that done for the sheer enjoyment of creating it?
>Maybe if furries were actually capable of matching the artistic skill of
>fellow animators there would be more respect for the art as a whole. And
>dont tell me all about Terrie Smith or ......the one or two other furry
>arists who can copy a playboy pinup a put a tail on it. Just remember
>the artists who drew The Lion King can also draw people, backgrounds,
>cars, you name it. Broaden your horizons my friends, quit obsessing on
>wolves and various other canines( or cats,whatever)
>and open yourself to learning new skills.
It is true that many fan artists get stuck in a rut in drawing just
one type of species and could benefit from variety of subject matter, but I
wouldn't presume to tell that person who obviously enjoys drawing their chosen
subject that they needed to do something else. It isn't my place to decide
what they do for their own enjoyment. If it were a JOB, then I would have
something to say, but since it isn't, I'd just be quiet and only comment if
they requested it. Otherwise it would look very pompous and arrogant to come
down on an amateur artist in such a manner. A very unPROFESSIONAL manner of
behavior.
>You can say whatever you want about what I've said here but tomorrow
>I'll go back to my $1400 a week animation job and thank god I forced
>myself to learn.
Let's translate that last part- and thank god I forced myself to
learn. Isn't that really, "and thank god I caved in to the pressure of money
and started drawing the way others wanted me to instead of drawing for the
sheer joy and pleasure of it" ? Sounds like the only person who has lost
perspective is the one receiving that $1400/week salary. What credentials do
you have so that we may all look through animation credits and see your work
for ourselves? Surely you have a long list since you are so eager to expound
your opinion of 'amateur' artists.
>Best of luck to all you angry starving artists.
I doubt very many of those artists are starving or hungry. They could
be your neighbors. They could be your friends. They could even be your boss.
I'm sure those $100K/year programmers online here are just shuddering with
fear at immediate hunger because they doodle the odd sketch here and there in
their off time.
In closing, I'd just say that we 'amateur' artists are getting along
quite fine without any difficulties. We enjoy what we do for the original
reason we draw- the fun of it. Have you lost your way?
________________________________________________________________________
| | Equinart Studios * Furry Artist * Model Railroader |
| Flinthoof |--------------------------------------------------------|
| *U* | MINTMINTMINTMINTMINTMINTMINTMINTMINTMINTMINTMINT!! |
| 1997 |--------------------------------------------------------|
| | UniGraphix Artist Liaison & Public Relations Rep |
| |--------------------------------------------------------|
| UNIGRAPHIX | Flin...@zebradale.com * Ferro....@genie.com |
|_____________|________________________________________________________|
Gordon McVey
>
>Okay, time to take the plunge. I've noticed something in the two and a half
>years of web-surfing and looking at furry sites and pages and I've come to
>the conclusion that, well, a LOT of work needs to be done with these web
>artist. Now, I'm not saying they're bad, but I'm not saying they're good
>either. Well, a large number of them anyway. It's nice to see folks or furs
>do drawings and try to visually express their attraction to the art form, but
>school needs to be in session.
I'm trying to make my stuff better, but I can't if no one e-mails me and lets
me know what they liked and didn't like!
<---- Check out my homepage for commission information ---->
http://fenn.feline.pp.se/ Team AMIGA member
http://rat.org/pub/furry/mcveygor/ g.m...@zen.co.uk
ftp://ftp.feline.pp.se/pub/furry/images/Fenn/ Fenn online
WitchCat 1
Hoi Shawntae. Yes, I totally agree with what you are saying. If more artists
spent time working on the basics, their material would look so much better.
Still, they ARE expressing themselves in an artistic way (well, some of them
are), so I can't really complain about their skill level or such. I just wished
that more of them would do action pieces instead of portaraits. Ye gods,
Furtraits get so old after awhile.
WitchCat
Allen Kitchen
Gordon McVey <g.m...@zen.co.uk> wrote in article
<6ki8li$ge8...@salford.ac.uk>...
> I'm trying to make my stuff better, but I can't if no one e-mails me and
lets
> me know what they liked and didn't like!
>
>
> <---- Check out my homepage for commission information ---->
> http://fenn.feline.pp.se/ Team AMIGA member
> http://rat.org/pub/furry/mcveygor/ g.m...@zen.co.uk
> ftp://ftp.feline.pp.se/pub/furry/images/Fenn/ Fenn online
My sole criticism on your art Gorden, is that the muzzles
are too rounded. Your foxes appear more as monkeys, save
with a bushier tail. I've not said anything before since I can't draw,
and I feel I have no business telling an artist what I don't like. I'm
not the critical sort unless someone asks for a critique.
Study an animal book for form, and add some details like
creases in the clothing, and you'll grow as an artist.
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/
Syke
Allen Kitchen wrote:
> Gordon McVey <g.m...@zen.co.uk> wrote in article
> <6ki8li$ge8...@salford.ac.uk>...
> > I'm trying to make my stuff better, but I can't if no one e-mails me and
> lets
> > me know what they liked and didn't like!
> My sole criticism on your art Gorden, is that the muzzles
> are too rounded. Your foxes appear more as monkeys, save
> with a bushier tail. I've not said anything before since I can't draw,
> and I feel I have no business telling an artist what I don't like. I'm
> not the critical sort unless someone asks for a critique.
Hrm, I looked at them to and note that not everyone draws Foxes the same
way,there's a broad range based on the artist's perspective of what an
anthromorphic fox would
look like. Everyone has their own style for drawing and what they want out of
it, we don't
NEED every furry artist out there to draw Foxes and other animals all exactly
the same way,
which is sometimes how critics are set into doing.
Just say, Bite Me and keep drawing, since art SHOULD be for an individuals
personal like over that
of everyone else. I think it looks good to me in a unique cartoony style.
The fact that you can tell it's a Fox is
good enough.
>
>
> Study an animal book for form, and add some details like
> creases in the clothing, and you'll grow as an artist.
>
> Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
> http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/
-- Syke
Allen Kitchen
Syke <str...@dallas.crosswinds.net> wrote in article
<356D81E9...@dallas.crosswinds.net>...
> Allen Kitchen wrote:
> > Gordon McVey <g.m...@zen.co.uk> wrote in article
> > <6ki8li$ge8...@salford.ac.uk>...
> > > I'm trying to make my stuff better, but I can't if no one e-mails me
and
> > lets
> > > me know what they liked and didn't like!
> > My sole criticism on your art Gorden, is that the muzzles
> > are too rounded. Your foxes appear more as monkeys, save
> > with a bushier tail. I've not said anything before since I can't draw,
> > and I feel I have no business telling an artist what I don't like. I'm
> > not the critical sort unless someone asks for a critique.
>
> Just say, Bite Me and keep drawing, since art SHOULD be for an
individuals
> personal like over that
> of everyone else. I think it looks good to me in a unique cartoony
style.
> The fact that you can tell it's a Fox is
> good enough.
* the wolf grins a toothy grin*
Hope you have a bigger muzzle than I have, if you wanna bite. :)
I wasn't putting Gordon down. I pointed out that I don't critique
unless asked, and he asked. And I cannot tell his vixens are
foxes. Yes, he has a toony style. More power to him, since I
like some toony stuff. But the fact remains all his muzzles look
alike. It is something he needs to be aware of.
He said he wanted to make his art better. I pointed out a shortcoming
in a non-attacking and constructive manner. There is no need to
rush to his defense here: he asked for feedback.
Allen Kitchen (shockwave the netwolf)
http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/
Syke
Allen Kitchen wrote:
> Syke <str...@dallas.crosswinds.net> wrote in article
>
> > Just say, Bite Me and keep drawing, since art SHOULD be for an
> individuals
> > personal like over that
> > of everyone else. I think it looks good to me in a unique cartoony
> style.
> > The fact that you can tell it's a Fox is
> > good enough.
>
> * the wolf grins a toothy grin*
*the winged Utahraptor grins a toothier grin and taps her claws on the ground*
>
>
> Hope you have a bigger muzzle than I have, if you wanna bite. :)
Hmmm.. opens mouth to measure her bite radius versus that of a humanoid or
normal wolf and thinks she beats him out :)
>
>
> I wasn't putting Gordon down. I pointed out that I don't critique
> unless asked, and he asked. And I cannot tell his vixens are
> foxes. Yes, he has a toony style. More power to him, since I
> like some toony stuff. But the fact remains all his muzzles look
> alike. It is something he needs to be aware of.
>
Good point, across species the muzzle varies and no, I wasn't defendingor
attacking, just stating a few things. Never take my tone serious, half the
time
I'm just typing to type and get something across in the spam:)
> He said he wanted to make his art better. I pointed out a shortcoming
> in a non-attacking and constructive manner. There is no need to
> rush to his defense here: he asked for feedback.
>
> Allen Kitchen (shockwave the netwolf)
> http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/
--
Syke
Farlo wrote:
> Syke did speaketh thus:
>
> >
> >*the winged Utahraptor grins a toothier grin and taps her claws on the ground*
>
> A WINGED RAPTOR!? Cool ...
Yup, I'm here too for what I look like, although the .gif was slightly messed up:
http://www.furnation.com/Syke/syke.html
-- Syke, who has a trip to Dallas to go to Akon this year, hurray! I'll be there
from noon Friday to Sunday, hurray!!!! I'm the short fat girl with brown hair,
glasses and carrying around a black sketchbook and walking around with a very TALL
guy who also wears glasses.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homepage: http://www.furnation.com/Syke/
Farlo
Allen Kitchen
> -- Syke, who has a trip to Dallas to go to Akon this year, hurray! I'll
be there
> from noon Friday to Sunday, hurray!!!! I'm the short fat girl with brown
hair,
> glasses and carrying around a black sketchbook and walking around with a
very TALL
> guy who also wears glasses.
If you are a dallas fur, why are you a Utahraptor?
Have fun at Akon milady. This wolf won't be going :( Too many other
duties, including Habitat for Humanity, repairing mother's computer,
baby visit to Grandma... someone stop the world. I want off for awhile!
Amazing I can still find time to write. BTW: I like your art style Syke.
Gordon McVey
In article <01bd8a48$3b5904d0$8f301bc6@spgspare>,
"Allen Kitchen" <all...@blkbox.com> wrote:
>
>
>Gordon McVey <g.m...@zen.co.uk> wrote in article
><6ki8li$ge8...@salford.ac.uk>...
>> I'm trying to make my stuff better, but I can't if no one e-mails me and
>lets
>> me know what they liked and didn't like!
> My sole criticism on your art Gorden, is that the muzzles
>are too rounded. Your foxes appear more as monkeys, save
>with a bushier tail. I've not said anything before since I can't draw,
>and I feel I have no business telling an artist what I don't like. I'm
>not the critical sort unless someone asks for a critique.
Actually, the way I draw muzzles is loosely based on an Eric Schwartz
character called Flip the frog. *shrug* That's just the way I draw them I
guess, mainly cos they're easier to construct. I have been playing around
with alternate ways of drawing muzzles tho if you saw some of my newer
pictures on yerf.com.
> Study an animal book for form, and add some details like
>creases in the clothing, and you'll grow as an artist.
creaces in fabric is something I have been trying to get right, but I just
can't seem to make it look convincing. So usually it gets left out in the
finished images (the creaces, not the fabric!)
ELynne
Hrm...I thought they were called dragons... >;=8)
Syke
Allen Kitchen wrote:
> > -- Syke, who has a trip to Dallas to go to Akon this year, hurray!
>
>
> If you are a dallas fur, why are you a Utahraptor?
Hmmm, well, I live northeast of Dallas northeast of Amarillo actually until I
start attending UNT in Denton:)I'm a massive dinosaur nut and have been for
years and I'm a Utahraptor because she represents everything
I am not and wish to be. A lot like anyone else, yea, I'm not the standard
wolf and fox or feline. For this area
I suppose Pronghorn or Coyote would be more apt... but I -am- Syke.
>
>
> Have fun at Akon milady. This wolf won't be going :( Too many other
> duties, including Habitat for Humanity, repairing mother's computer,
> baby visit to Grandma... someone stop the world. I want off for awhile!
I had fun! I even got in for the Furry meeting before the brawl, but had to
leaveat that point so didn't get to really meet anyone :( *pout*
>
>
> Amazing I can still find time to write. BTW: I like your art style Syke.
Thank-you, very much, now to finish wading through the posts.
>
>
> Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
> http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/
-- Syke
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homepage:http://www.furnation.com/Syke
Syke
ELynne wrote:
> On Fri, 29 May 1998, Farlo wrote:
> > Syke did speaketh thus:
> > >*the winged Utahraptor grins a toothier grin and taps her claws on the ground*
> > A WINGED RAPTOR!? Cool ...
>
> Hrm...I thought they were called dragons... >;=8)
Hmpth, I want to be original ;) I am not a dragon, I am a winged utahraptor, but in
my world all dragonsare just dinosaurs so the term is interchangeable. I most
commonly refer to them as Acid Whips and explain
them in purely scientific manners. The difference is, I'm not a magical creature :)