What became of Abe Groter?

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Richard de Wylfin

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Oct 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/20/98
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Does anyone know?

^ ^ Posted from an original 128k Macintosh upgraded to a Mac Plus,
o-o with 4 megs of RAM.
+


mok...@hotmail.com

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Oct 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/21/98
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In article <dwylfin-2010...@pm1-26.hoosier.net>,
dwy...@usa.net (Richard de Wylfin) wrote:
> Does anyone know?

As I understand it, he bailed due to the general suckyness of the subculture.

b.root
'suckyness' is so a word!

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Matt Sheridan

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Oct 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/21/98
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I hear he left over the very issues that Squee's been talking
about....

Matt Sheridan


Matthew Milam

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Oct 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/22/98
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On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:11:26 -0700, Matt Sheridan <mshe...@hbs.edu>
wrote:

> I hear he left over the very issues that Squee's been talking
>about....
>
>Matt Sheridan
>

What he's talking about makes sense to me? Brian Anderson said the
same thing....after telling me his girlfriend moved in with him and
that he no longer gives a damn about anyone.

When I said whether or not he would be interested in Gargoyles:

EXT. HOUSE

Brian Anderson has a gun on his right arm, it is a six-shooter. He
points it at MMilam

MMILAM

But I thought you were part of the fandom still...

BRIAN

As far as i'm concerned, the fandom can have it, I don't care anymore.

MMILAM

I think it's time...

BRIAN

For you to go...

The gun clicks.

MMILAM

You know Brian, what happens when your girlfriend leaves, you can't
expect the rest of the world to leave you alone after that? People
will notice and worry about you.

Brian fires the first bullet and MMilam runs down the street.

MMILAM

On the other hand...prehaps you could get a job with the army. Navy
Seals even..

THE END

Matthew Milam
mmi...@enteract.com

Joe Rosales

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Oct 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/22/98
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Who is he?

Nate Patrin

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Oct 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/22/98
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Joe Rosales <joea...@NOSPAMstic.net> wrote in article
<363004...@NOSPAMstic.net>...
> Who is he?

A damn good artist. Probably the best single furry artist you've never
heard of. (Or maybe just the best, period.)

A more important question, however, is- *where* is he?

--
-Nate Patrin
======================================================
"Will I be drawing these damn rabbits forever?" -Matt Groening, 1990
n8r...@pioneerplanet.infi.net


Scotty Arsenault

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Oct 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/23/98
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Nate Patrin wrote:
>
> Joe Rosales <joea...@NOSPAMstic.net> wrote in article
> <363004...@NOSPAMstic.net>...
> > Who is he?
>
> A damn good artist. Probably the best single furry artist you've never
> heard of. (Or maybe just the best, period.)
>
> A more important question, however, is- *where* is he?
>

Abe was once on Yerf, né SCFA, but quit it, and the fandom sometime ago.
I imagine he's all the better for it, too.

wherever he is, i want to say to him: "Stay where you are! You've got
the right idea! Just remember you're a fine artist, period.. Never give
up! :)

----
Scotty arsenault
Yerf.com


Richard de Wylfin

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Oct 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/23/98
to

> Nate Patrin wrote:
> >
> > Joe Rosales <joea...@NOSPAMstic.net> wrote in article
> > <363004...@NOSPAMstic.net>...
> > > Who is he?
> >
> > A damn good artist. Probably the best single furry artist you've never
> > heard of. (Or maybe just the best, period.)
> >
> > A more important question, however, is- *where* is he?
> >
>
> Abe was once on Yerf, né SCFA, but quit it, and the fandom sometime ago.

Really? I hope he's happy then. As for the rest of us, well, we're a lot
poorer for his absence.

> I imagine he's all the better for it, too.
>
> wherever he is, i want to say to him: "Stay where you are! You've got
> the right idea!

Just remember you're a fine artist, period.. Never give
> up! :)

Maybe he has already. :(


Joe Rosales

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Oct 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/24/98
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Nate:

> A damn good artist. Probably the best single furry artist you've never
> heard of. (Or maybe just the best, period.)

Scotty & Richard:


>> Abe was once on Yerf, né SCFA, but quit it, and the fandom sometime
>> ago.
>
> Really? I hope he's happy then. As for the rest of us, well, we're a
> lot poorer for his absence.

Indeed.

It is part of my philosophy that art must be shared to be properly said
to exist as art. (This is not followed by everyone, I know.) In this
case, having never seen any of his work, neither he nor his art exists
for me. Nor is it there for anyone else who wants to learn, or expand
their viewing, or look at a good example, for that matter.

In the absence of any material, I must classify him as simply "someone
else who quit." A pity if he deserved more. But how would I know?

-- Joe

Azimuth

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Oct 25, 1998, 2:00:00 AM10/25/98
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Joe Rosales wrote:

...


> It is part of my philosophy that art must be shared to be properly said
> to exist as art. (This is not followed by everyone, I know.) In this
> case, having never seen any of his work, neither he nor his art exists
> for me. Nor is it there for anyone else who wants to learn, or expand
> their viewing, or look at a good example, for that matter.
>
> In the absence of any material, I must classify him as simply "someone
> else who quit." A pity if he deserved more. But how would I know?

...

A few samples of his art have survived on

http://www.furnation.com/kat/abe.html


--
azi...@hoki.ibp.fhg.de
... and a star to steer her by


B_Roget

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Oct 25, 1998, 2:00:00 AM10/25/98
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> >Joe Rosales wrote:
> >
> > In the absence of any material, I must classify him as simply "someone
> > else who quit." A pity if he deserved more. But how would I know?


> In article <36334E23...@hoki.ibp.fhg.de>, Azimuth >


<azi...@hoki.ibp.fhg.de> wrote:
>
> A few samples of his art have survived on
>
> http://www.furnation.com/kat/abe.html


Abe was a very talented and kind young man -- impressive to think that he
was only 16-years-old when he drew the images on the web page listed above.
Another talented artist gone, thanks to the single-minded spoogers and
yiffs of furry fandom. Oh well.


Azimuth

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Oct 25, 1998, 2:00:00 AM10/25/98
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B_Roget wrote:

> > In article <36334E23...@hoki.ibp.fhg.de>, Azimuth >
> <azi...@hoki.ibp.fhg.de> wrote:
> >
> > A few samples of his art have survived on
> >
> > http://www.furnation.com/kat/abe.html
>
> Abe was a very talented and kind young man -- impressive to think that he
> was only 16-years-old when he drew the images on the web page listed above.
> Another talented artist gone, thanks to the single-minded spoogers and
> yiffs of furry fandom. Oh well.

* sigh *

Allen Kitchen

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Oct 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/26/98
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Azimuth wrote in message <3633AC...@hoki.ibp.fhg.de>...

>B_Roget wrote:
>>> Abe was a very talented and kind young man -- impressive to think that
he
>> was only 16-years-old when he drew the images on the web page listed
above.
>> Another talented artist gone, thanks to the single-minded spoogers and
>> yiffs of furry fandom. Oh well.
>
> * sigh *


I agree. I hadn't seen his work before, but the 3 pics I see
are very good. Pity that he left the genre. It would be stronger
and cleaner with his presence than with his absence.

Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/


Rebecca Gallant

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Oct 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/26/98
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Yes, I tried to tell him that when he told me he's left the fandom. Once
in a blue moon, he'll e-mail me a pic via a friend of his. He's still
doing furry art, he's just afraid of "us".
Out of the kindness of his heart, he allows me to display those three
pics at the gallery. I feel quite fortunate to have his work there.
Yours,
Becky
http://www.furnation.com/kat/furry.html
--
/^--^\
/ . . \
_______________ o0o =x= o0o____________

Becky's Wildlife and Fantasy Art
URL: http://www.wildlife-fantasy.com/
Specializing in photo realistic
wildlife and fantasy paintings and
illustrations.

Allen Kitchen

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Oct 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/26/98
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Rebecca Gallant wrote in message <3634E8...@netway.com>...

>Yes, I tried to tell him that when he told me he's left the fandom. Once
>in a blue moon, he'll e-mail me a pic via a friend of his. He's still
>doing furry art, he's just afraid of "us".

What "us" is that? Sure there are some icky people in the fandom.
There are these kinds of folks in every group of people. Heck, there
are some people in the mall I'd rather not know about; I still go to the
mall though. One cannot hide from the universe, and for every bad
apple you'll find 99 good apples.

A long time ago I quit SciFi because of a few twisted individuals. In
hindsight, I wish I hadn't. I missed out on a lot of fun and excitement in
my life because of that decision. I'm delighted to get to know these
imaginative and talented people in furry, even though I rarely bother
them.

>Out of the kindness of his heart, he allows me to display those three
>pics at the gallery. I feel quite fortunate to have his work there.


And I'm glad he lets you show his work there as well. I hope one
day he will consider coming back under a psuedonym or such. (like
Nakira did.) It is a shame that he feels he must distance himself from
the genre, when he is the very sort of artist we need to "improve" matters.

Joe Rosales

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Oct 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/27/98
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>> A few samples of his art have survived on
>>
>> http://www.furnation.com/kat/abe.html

Thanks for the link. At least now I've seen *something*!

Oh, well. Some people just don't become artists. It does take, as
Clive Barker said, a certain "condition of nerves".... Of course, what
he was saying that about could well apply here too!...

This dropping-out happened only a year ago, from the dates on the
pictures? Hm.

-- Joe

PigCop

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Oct 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/27/98
to
Joe Rosales wrote:
>
> >> A few samples of his art have survived on
> >>
> >> http://www.furnation.com/kat/abe.html
>
> Thanks for the link. At least now I've seen *something*!
>
> Oh, well. Some people just don't become artists. It does take, as
> Clive Barker said, a certain "condition of nerves".... Of course, what
> he was saying that about could well apply here too!...

Some pople just don't become artists.. and still manage to get
published- Joe being a case in point. Actually, Abe could draw circles
around old Joe here at 16. It'd be interesting to see how well he could
kick ass by the time he get's to be Rosales' age. Abe actually did have
what it took to be an artist, given he's now doing ad art for a
well-known and reputable company. The difference being he had what it
took to be an artist in a market that actually turns a decent buck and
is recognized, as opposed to furrydumb which, no matter how much it
deludes itself, is obscure and will pretty much remain so (even with
some japanese artist doing a generic pinup bunny for the cover of a
comic).
What Abe didn't have was what it took to be a recognized furry artist-
borderline talent that never advances and a total lack of integrity. I
don't think it's a "condition of nerves" in question when a 16 year old
boy leaves a scene because he's most likely being asked to draw herms,
macros, and probably receiving sexual advances from guys- (What would
you have done at 16 if some scruffy guy comes up to you going "churp!").
It does take a certain amount of nerve to call yourself an artist- and
for Joe "I Wanna Draw Spoooooooge" Rosales to do that, he's got some
nerve. Abe's got a helluva lot more of a basis to be deemed an artist.

Allen Kitchen

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Oct 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/27/98
to

PigCop wrote in message <3635A5...@riverboat.com>...

>Joe Rosales wrote:
> Some pople just don't become artists.. and still manage to get
>published- Joe being a case in point. Actually, Abe could draw circles
>around old Joe here at 16. It'd be interesting to see how well he could
>kick ass by the time he get's to be Rosales' age.

bumper sticker on Pigcop's car
"My artist can whup your artist!"
:)

Abe actually did have
>what it took to be an artist, given he's now doing ad art for a
>well-known and reputable company. The difference being he had what it
>took to be an artist in a market that actually turns a decent buck and
>is recognized, as opposed to furrydumb which, no matter how much it
>deludes itself, is obscure and will pretty much remain so (even with
>some japanese artist doing a generic pinup bunny for the cover of a
>comic).

I'm glad to see artists making money with their talents. But
making cash does not equate with being an artist. Look at Van
Gogh. He made only one sale in his life, but his works are some
of the most valuable paintings in existance today.

Joe and Abe have different styles anyway. It's much like
comparing a Ferrari with a Porsche. Speaking as one whose
drawing ability puts him firmly in Schwinn territory, who cares?
They are both top notch.

> What Abe didn't have was what it took to be a recognized furry artist-
>borderline talent that never advances and a total lack of integrity. I
>don't think it's a "condition of nerves" in question when a 16 year old
>boy leaves a scene because he's most likely being asked to draw herms,
>macros, and probably receiving sexual advances from guys- (What would
>you have done at 16 if some scruffy guy comes up to you going "churp!").


Yes, a very real problem in the fandom today. The fans who
want spooge, spooge, and more spooge making the fandom
stickier and stickier. I can see where Abe would be repelled by
that. But it certainly won't get any better if he retreats from it.
If he likes drawing furrys, then he should (and the spoogehounds need
not make any suggestions.) After all, the fandom is supposed
to be fun.

As for being pawwed about; there are times when lupine
traits come in handy...

Allen Kitchen (shockwave)

Arved

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Oct 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/27/98
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B_Roget wrote:
>
> > A few samples of his art have survived on
> > http://www.furnation.com/kat/abe.html
>
> Abe was a very talented and kind young man -- impressive to think that he
> was only 16-years-old when he drew the images on the web page listed above.

Oops. I knew Abe was young, but I never got the idea he is _that_
young. I've followed his work from the moment he joined the then-SCFA
(now known as www.yerf.com) and he was getting better at an interesting
rate. Big talent. I had hoped to buy a comic done by him one day, but
then he decided to leave for the mentioned reasons.

Big loss IMHO. I'm still hoping he might be back one day. Or at least
publish something I can get hold of. I'd try to be first in line...


Arved (honoured that Abe liked some of my stuff)

forrest

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Oct 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/28/98
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In article <3635A5...@riverboat.com>, pepsi...@riverboat.com says...

>Actually, Abe could draw circles
>around old Joe here at 16.

Joe had covered about 320 degrees of Walt Kelly's perimeter the last I
checked.


Billy

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Oct 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/28/98
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In article <EwAZ1.879$KW3....@newsfeed.slurp.net>, squi...@net-gate.com
(forrest) wrote:

> Joe had covered about 320 degrees of Walt Kelly's perimeter the last I
> checked.


Huh?

He may have covered Kelly's perimeter, but he's not come near to piercing
it yet. ;)


forrest

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Oct 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/28/98
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In article <billy-ya02408000...@enews.newsguy.com>,
bi...@NOSPAM.net says...

>
>In article <EwAZ1.879$KW3....@newsfeed.slurp.net>, squi...@net-gate.com
>(forrest) wrote:
>
>> Joe had covered about 320 degrees of Walt Kelly's perimeter the last I
>> checked.
>
>
>Huh?

In the "drawing circles around" department. (Shoulda said "circumference"
instead of "perimeter" I guess.)


Joe Rosales

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Oct 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/29/98
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PC:

> Some pople just don't become artists.. and still manage to get
> published- Joe being a case in point.

Ouch!

> Actually, Abe could draw circles around old Joe here at 16.

Easily. I didn't start drawing at all until I was 19.

> It'd be interesting to see how well he could
> kick ass by the time he get's to be Rosales' age.

Sure would. But that's pretty much beyond the realm of possibility now,
isn't it?

> It does take a certain amount of nerve to call yourself an artist- and
> for Joe "I Wanna Draw Spoooooooge" Rosales to do that, he's got some
> nerve.

Firstly, at what point did I call myself an artist? Please reproduce
that quote here. My memory seems to be slipping.

Secondly, what exactly is this vast amount of pornography I've produced
and advocated? All these years I've spent going to cons telling
everyone who would listen that the production of explicit material was
unnecessary to survive as an artist, the continuing success of the
Wildlifers and Romanics -- this has all apparently been put to the lie
by something. Pray, tell us what it is. Eight years of work, my entire
professional career spent working in and promoting PG material, has been
obviated in a single moment. Please explain. And while you're at it,
please share with us what you've done to promote a better fandom and
clean art supply, outside of complaining online.

Thirdly, your only requirement for being an artist is apparently to
produce completely clean, G-rated material. This would of course rule
out both Walt Kelly and Carl Barks. Perhaps you would care to elaborate
on how someone who is aspiring to be a better funny animal artist would
benefit from not following such sordid and talentless examples.

Finally, Betty or whatever you're calling yourself now, you should
either start using your real name on posts, or come up with some new
catch-phrases. Yeah, I know, you have no idea what I'm talking about.

-- Joe

PigCop

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Oct 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/29/98
to
Michael Pena wrote:
>
> Joe doing Spooge?
>
> What comic have you been reading? I have most of Joe's work and I
> have yet to see anything sexually explicit, even in his portfolios.
>

An upcoming Genus. Joe was practically begging the members a furry
mailing list to pat him on the back for doing a spooge story. It's
whatever the one that will have the poorly colored generic pinup cover
by japanese artist "Monty" is.

Michael Pena

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Oct 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/30/98
to
Joe doing Spooge?

What comic have you been reading? I have most of Joe's work and I
have yet to see anything sexually explicit, even in his portfolios.

Heck if you can find some please let me know where it is! (laughs)

Honestly I admire Joes artistic ability very highly and his ability to
telll fun, non spoogey tales even more. I love sexually explicit furry
art but not everyfur has to do it. I like my innocent stuff too.

It appears to me that your post is designed to hurt Joe personally,
that unfortunately destroyed what could have been a nice letter about
you heartfelt admiration for Abe.

Joe also has another thing I admire, CLASS.

Sincerely,
Michael Peña(AKA Sparrow...A Rabbit)
http://lonestar.texas.net/~sparrow/sparrow.htm

PigCop <pepsi...@riverboat.com> wrote:

>Joe Rosales wrote:
>>
>> >> A few samples of his art have survived on
>> >>
>> >> http://www.furnation.com/kat/abe.html
>>

>> Thanks for the link. At least now I've seen *something*!
>>
>> Oh, well. Some people just don't become artists. It does take, as
>> Clive Barker said, a certain "condition of nerves".... Of course, what
>> he was saying that about could well apply here too!...
>

> Some pople just don't become artists.. and still manage to get

>published- Joe being a case in point. Actually, Abe could draw circles
>around old Joe here at 16. It'd be interesting to see how well he could
>kick ass by the time he get's to be Rosales' age. Abe actually did have


>what it took to be an artist, given he's now doing ad art for a
>well-known and reputable company. The difference being he had what it
>took to be an artist in a market that actually turns a decent buck and
>is recognized, as opposed to furrydumb which, no matter how much it
>deludes itself, is obscure and will pretty much remain so (even with
>some japanese artist doing a generic pinup bunny for the cover of a
>comic).

> What Abe didn't have was what it took to be a recognized furry artist-
>borderline talent that never advances and a total lack of integrity. I
>don't think it's a "condition of nerves" in question when a 16 year old
>boy leaves a scene because he's most likely being asked to draw herms,
>macros, and probably receiving sexual advances from guys- (What would
>you have done at 16 if some scruffy guy comes up to you going "churp!").

> It does take a certain amount of nerve to call yourself an artist- and
>for Joe "I Wanna Draw Spoooooooge" Rosales to do that, he's got some

Michael Pena

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Oct 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/30/98
to
Great!
I look forward to seeing Joe's work in Genus as I am sure the story
will be of the same excellent quality as his others.

Sincerely,
Michael Angel Peña
http://lonestar.texas.net/~sparrow/sparrow.htm


PigCop <pepsi...@riverboat.com> wrote:

>Michael Pena wrote:
>>
>> Joe doing Spooge?
>>
>> What comic have you been reading? I have most of Joe's work and I
>> have yet to see anything sexually explicit, even in his portfolios.
>>
>

Joe Rosales

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Oct 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/30/98
to
Pig:

> An upcoming Genus. Joe was practically begging the members a furry
> mailing list to pat him on the back for doing a spooge story.

Yes, everyone who has met me knows what a Shrinking Violet I am, and how
desperately I crave the approval of others.

The truth is, PigCop -- who was then calling herself Betty Roget, which
is not her real name either, by the way -- officed such poor behavior on
the aforementioned mailing list for my even mentioning doing this story
that the two guys running it personally apologized to me for her
remarks, which included insulting my mother. Neither she nor anyone
else has seen the story or even knows what it is about, so her
judgements on it are purely abstractions based on her own predjudices
and predilections. This is the same woman who said that I shouldn't put
drag humor in Wildlifers because that was about "lifestyle issues".
Puh-leeze.

Never one to ask anyone to take things on faith, I will gladly email
anyone who wants it a complete transcript of all of the activity on that
thread. You've heard of flames? This was more "Betty's" version of
electronic vitriolage. It was pretty despicable. Please, don't take my
word for it -- I'll *gladly* provide the evidence.

Warning! It's very large, about 52K of text. Just so's you know.

Moreover, I invite you all to take a look at my finally up-and-running
website at http://www.FurNation.com/Animus/ , where you can see exactly
the kind of horrible material Pig is so dead set against.

And perhaps, Pig, you would favor us with a place where we can see your
own work? As you so astutely pointed out, this fandom is desperately in
need of good examples, and your work must in fact be far superior to my
own. I think everyone should be able to judge and follow your example.
Please let me and the group know where we can see examples of your art
and/or writing in any comics, books, collections, etc. I for one am
vitally in need of guidance.

> It's whatever the one that will have the poorly colored
> generic pinup cover by japanese artist "Monty" is.

And for those of you who wish to view the terrible hackwork that Monty
produces, I invite you to take a look at his homepage at
http://www.fang.or.jp/~monty/ .

Please, don't listen to me! Judge for yourselves. But at least I use
my real name.

-- Joe

PigCop

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Oct 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/30/98
to
Joe Rosales wrote:
>
> Pig:
> > An upcoming Genus. Joe was practically begging the members a furry
> > mailing list to pat him on the back for doing a spooge story.
>
> Yes, everyone who has met me knows what a Shrinking Violet I am, and how
> desperately I crave the approval of others.
>
> The truth is, PigCop -- who was then calling herself Betty Roget, which
> is not her real name either, by the way -- officed such poor behavior on
> the aforementioned mailing list for my even mentioning doing this story

> Please, don't listen to me! Judge for yourselves. But at least I use
> my real name.

I heard the tales from Betty, but I can assure you, you're
waaaaaaaaaaay off if you think I'm her.

PigCop

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Oct 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/30/98
to
Joe Rosales wrote:
>

> Yes, everyone who has met me knows what a Shrinking Violet I am, and how
> desperately I crave the approval of others.

Nah.. you don't need to crave it, you just make it up, oh "Fan
favorite."

> And perhaps, Pig, you would favor us with a place where we can see your
> own work? As you so astutely pointed out, this fandom is desperately in
> need of good examples, and your work must in fact be far superior to my
> own. I think everyone should be able to judge and follow your example.
> Please let me and the group know where we can see examples of your art
> and/or writing in any comics, books, collections, etc. I for one am
> vitally in need of guidance.

I did a few stints in non-furry comics, but then I got a job with a
future.

> > It's whatever the one that will have the poorly colored
> > generic pinup cover by japanese artist "Monty" is.
>
> And for those of you who wish to view the terrible hackwork that Monty
> produces, I invite you to take a look at his homepage at
> http://www.fang.or.jp/~monty/ .

Actually, Monty is really good. He just could have done a hell of a
lot better with this cover that is gonna drive folks to the fandom in
droves.

SilverJain

unread,
Oct 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/30/98
to
>I did a few stints in non-furry comics, but then I got a job with a
>future.

Which non-furry comics would those be? I might have them in my collection. It's
always nice to run into other pros.

(And I'm wondering where you've seen the actual finished version of Monty's
cover, since we haven't posted it anywhere or printed it anywhere. Monty does
good work and, like all the Japanese artists I've dealt with, is a dream to
work with- professional to a fault, polite, and very concientious about
deadlines.)

--Elin
"Remember, Zip, evil spelled backwards is live, and we all want to do that!"
-Mok, "Rock'n'Rule"

Joe Rosales

unread,
Oct 31, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/31/98
to
Pig:

> I heard the tales from Betty, but I can assure you, you're
> waaaaaaaaaaay off if you think I'm her.

Yes, of course. How silly of me. You have no need to hide behind silly
pseudonyms.

Here's a hint: learn how to fake your message paths too.

>> Yes, everyone who has met me knows what a Shrinking Violet I am,
>> and how desperately I crave the approval of others.
>
> Nah.. you don't need to crave it, you just make it up, oh "Fan
> favorite."

Again, my memory fails me. Please reproduce the quote where either I or
anyone else refers to me as a "fan favorite".

The truth is, you have no credits, no solutions, and nothing to show --
you're just a loudmouth with a computer. Where are your pages? Where
are your stories? Where is the guiding light of your genius to show us
the way? Tell us, what are these comics you did? Where's your
website? What cons have you been at, helping upcoming artists and
talking to fanzine and comic publishers? And what have you done to
improve the fandom, besides insulting people on newsgroups?

I make no claim to being an unrecognized genius. I work for a living.
People can enjoy my work if they choose. But at least I don't make up a
name and then go around insulting people. Even Matt Milam has the guts
to use his own name when he speaks; he's got some chutzpah. You're just
a gutless coward with a big mouth.

> I heard the tales from Betty

"Betty" has apparently been telling you more than tales. To get the
info you've posted here, you would have actually had to read the traffic
on the previously mentioned mailing list, which means that (if you're
not her, ha ha right) she's been forwarding the messages from the
mailing list to you -- something she complained bitterly about other
people doing for *their* friends, even when the posts were about them.
Such integrity!

I apologize to all you people out there in webland for airing this
nonsense here. Pig is pretty desperate to prove how much smarter and
more moral she is than everyone; hence the attacks. She really has
nothing better to do; she's certainly not working on anything to show to
you all. I think you can all decide on your own, and I do have other
things to do, so I'll consider this matter closed. Sorry to take up
this bandwidth!

Once again, feel free to visit my webpage at
http://www.FurNation.com/Animus/ . I just put up a little more art on
the "In Progress" page (I waited to ask Matt for permission first), so
you can see a little more of the actual work I'm preparing for
publication. It probably won't be as good as Pig's work, but at least
you'll get to see it.

-- Joe

Don Sanders

unread,
Oct 31, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/31/98
to
In article <363ACD...@stic.net>, Joe Rosales <joea...@NOSPAMstic.net> wrote:
>Pig:
>> I heard the tales from Betty, but I can assure you, you're
>> waaaaaaaaaaay off if you think I'm her.
>
>Yes, of course. How silly of me. You have no need to hide behind silly
>pseudonyms.
>
>Here's a hint: learn how to fake your message paths too.
*** some of this snipped ***

>
>I apologize to all you people out there in webland for airing this
>nonsense here. Pig is pretty desperate to prove how much smarter and
>more moral she is than everyone; hence the attacks. She really has
>nothing better to do; she's certainly not working on anything to show to
>you all. I think you can all decide on your own, and I do have other
>things to do, so I'll consider this matter closed. Sorry to take up
>this bandwidth!

No need to apologize to at least me Joe, This person seems to be on everyone's
case, case in point, a certain picture posted to Alt.binaries.pictures.furry.
I will not say no more on that subject. Anyone who don't want to pony up to
at least showing who they are, unless they fear reprisals(sp?) should not be
taken for face value. I use my real name in my posts.

>Once again, feel free to visit my webpage at
>http://www.FurNation.com/Animus/ . I just put up a little more art on
>the "In Progress" page (I waited to ask Matt for permission first), so
>you can see a little more of the actual work I'm preparing for
>publication. It probably won't be as good as Pig's work, but at least
>you'll get to see it.

Hey, congrats again on winning the T-Shirt contest for MFM this year, I'd like
to see Pig submit for next year, if he/she/it can.


Don Sanders

Dsan Tsan on #furry of Yiffnet
Artist at Roll Yer Own Graphics
http://www.dreamscape.com/dsand101/dsan.htm
(my furry page) Email dsan...@future.dreamscape.com

Wanderer

unread,
Oct 31, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/31/98
to
<message snipped>

No need for supplementary evidence, Joe. Whether this individual is Betty
or not, he has behaved in a manner which puts the filthiness of his animal
namesake to shame. True, if he had any credibility left, I might've asked
for the file ... but this guy? Credibility? Not in the same breath.

Yours wishing a certain swine to get the flu,

The otherwise-friendly,

Wanderer**wand...@applink.net
Where am I going?I don't quite know.
What does it matter where people go?
Down to the woods where the bluebells grow.
Anywhere! Anywhere! *I*don't know!

abeg...@gmail.com

unread,
May 13, 2017, 2:04:02 AM5/13/17
to
On Wednesday, October 21, 1998 at 10:00:00 AM UTC+3, mok...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <dwylfin-2010...@pm1-26.hoosier.net>,
> dwy...@usa.net (Richard de Wylfin) wrote:
> > Does anyone know?
>
> As I understand it, he bailed due to the general suckyness of the subculture.
>
> b.root
> 'suckyness' is so a word!
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

I am still around, here and there.

lucario...@gmail.com

unread,
Dec 31, 2017, 6:14:39 PM12/31/17
to
Welcome back Abe! Interesting you'd reply here, all these posts are from 1998.
I'm researching the early days of the fandom and came across the old alt.furry forums(?), you seemed to have a large impact on the fandom years ago! Would you be available for an email interview? I am documenting events with the Burned Furs.

Snuhwolf

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Jan 8, 2018, 1:48:13 PM1/8/18
to
Usenet is dead. all the action is on the twitters...


--

if you don't like my poasts don't read em!
Не читайте эти сообщения!

Ivan Shmakov

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Jan 16, 2018, 12:16:08 PM1/16/18