big changes coming to yerf.com

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Ratman

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Jul 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/10/98
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I've told a bunch of people, and you know how people tell people and
rumors begin, so i may as well make an official posting.

First of all, I'm officially retiring from admin of yerf.com
I'm appointing Scotty (Sully) as COO (Chief Operations Officer).
I'll remain as an advisor with technical things, but as far as all the
decisions on who gets on, what gets deleted, and the general direction
the site goes, that's all up to him as of right now.

Second, sometime within the next 2 months, I'll be moving from New
Hampshire, to the bay area in California. My last day at my current
job at the ISP here is on September 4th.
That will mean I can't host the web server anymore, so I'm currently
working out finding a new host. I've already gotten 2 good offers, and
I'm deciding between those 2, so I don't think that will be much of a
problem.
I'm hoping Scotty can stay on, but it will ultimately be up to the new
host since they're the "owners".

Third, that means this newsgroup is gonna go byebye. hopefully they'll
have something avaliable where people can chat about yerf things.

I'd still retain DNS on the name yerf.com, so I could always pull the
plug if I think they're taking it in bad direction, like allowing
spooge, or having no quality control at all. I doubt that will happen,
but it's just a little insurance I can give the artists that there's
nothing bad about staying on. I wont let your art be abused. I highly
doubt anything would happen, but I'm not taking any chances.

I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this. I
was burned out about a year ago, and was not enjoying running the site
anymore. So when you get to that point, it's time to either shut it
down, or hand it over to someone else. So I'm gonna hand it over so
yerf can live on, and I just hope whoever runs it now maintains the
quality.
If they care about the programming, things can only get better. I hope
to see new features come out of it too.

I'll be happy with "founder" status. :)
(complete with a big painting of a rat high up on the wall:
OUR FOUNDER)


Brian W. Antoine

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Jul 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/10/98
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Ratman (ra...@rat.org) wrote:
: I'll be happy with "founder" status. :)

: (complete with a big painting of a rat high up on the wall:
: OUR FOUNDER)

"So whatta we gonna do tonight Rat?"

"The same thing we do every night, Sully ..."

*grin*

Take care and good luck with whatever you're doing next.

--
Brian W. Antoine Engineer and News Admin @
bri...@iea.com (prefered) -OR- ISC, ISC Systems Corp, ISC Bunker-Ramo,
bri...@dogear.com -OR- Olivetti North America, Olsy North America,
bri...@circuit.com Wang Global, ... Spokane, WA USA

Allen Kitchen

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Jul 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/10/98
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Ratman <ra...@rat.org> wrote in article <35a636cb....@news.mv.net>...


> I've told a bunch of people, and you know how people tell people and
> rumors begin, so i may as well make an official posting.
>
> First of all, I'm officially retiring from admin of yerf.com
> I'm appointing Scotty (Sully) as COO (Chief Operations Officer).

Ratman, let me be the first to thank you for all the hard
work and stress you have put up with over the past couple
of years. It is a thankless job. And there is no way
to keep everyone happy all the time. You've made some
vocal enemies, I know. But you've also made some friends.
And while I may have been concerned about some decisions,
I'd be proud to be considered in the friendly column.

First: my best wishes and best of luck to you on your move,
and your new life in the Bay Area. (Hmm. everyone I know is
moving there. Somebody wanna clue me in as to why? :)

Second: When me meet oneday at a convention somewhere,
I shall INSIST on buying you dinner! As a thank you for all your
effort.

Take care Ratman...

*throngs of people surrounding the castle... a lone black wolf
steps out onto the balcony, his white robes billowing about him
in the wind. He holds his hands up to the crowd to signal
quiet, then begins his announcement...*

"The Rat King has stepped down! A new king is chosen!
All hail, Sully Theopolis Rex! Long live the Heeba!"

(hheheheh)
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)

Matthew Milam

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Jul 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/10/98
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Ratman wrote in message <35a636cb....@news.mv.net>...

>I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this.

Well, regardless of the fact it's your life and your site, how many people
who actually helped and hurt at the same time matters. The Gargoyles Fandom
didn't apperciate the taking down of there art, and neither did the Swat
Kats Fandom. And not to mention nearly half of the Furry Artists.

If that isn't mean, I don't know what is.

Matthew Milam
dynam...@email.msn.com
matmi...@yahoo.com
"Regardless of the fact i'm not a major furry fan, and only semi, that
doesn't mean I don't have something to say. Of course, if you don't like
what I say, tough, i'm not a yesman."

ClarksScr

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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All I can say is.... "Furry Good Luck to ya!" I, also, hope that the new owners
will keep Yerf clean. Show non-furries that we're not all sexaholics. I'll
really miss coming on alt.fan.furry and get a big laugh at all the flame wars
that go on here. It seems like we cant get to post on other news groups because
they wont let anyone post on them. Oh, well. You have a Furry Good Time and
hope your move goes smooth and wonderful! =)
From Clark Alan Corwin
e-mail: Clar...@aol.com
A little tabby tom cat with big hopes and dreames! ^6.6^
Think "Furry" not "Fury"! =)

Message has been deleted

Mutt

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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> Third, that means this newsgroup is gonna go byebye. hopefully they'll
> have something avaliable where people can chat about yerf things.

What the hell? Since when was alt.fan.furry part of yerf?
--
^v^
Blessed be,
Mutt the Pagan Fur


Don Sanders

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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In article <35a636cb....@news.mv.net>, ra...@rat.org (Ratman) wrote:
>I've told a bunch of people, and you know how people tell people and
>rumors begin, so i may as well make an official posting.
>
>First of all, I'm officially retiring from admin of yerf.com
>I'm appointing Scotty (Sully) as COO (Chief Operations Officer).
>I'll remain as an advisor with technical things, but as far as all the
>decisions on who gets on, what gets deleted, and the general direction
>the site goes, that's all up to him as of right now.
>
>Second, sometime within the next 2 months, I'll be moving from New
>Hampshire, to the bay area in California. My last day at my current
>job at the ISP here is on September 4th.
>That will mean I can't host the web server anymore, so I'm currently
>working out finding a new host. I've already gotten 2 good offers, and
>I'm deciding between those 2, so I don't think that will be much of a
>problem.
>I'm hoping Scotty can stay on, but it will ultimately be up to the new
>host since they're the "owners".
>

It took me half the night to think about how I was going to write this, I
still don't know how this will be received, by any or all who read this.

First off, I would like to wish Ratman good luck with his future endeavors.
From it's humble beginnings, he strived to create a dream of making a place to
display the crafts of artists, and make it friendly enough for all to enjoy.
Although there were many, I include myself on this that did not see eye to eye
with his quality policies, and of course the spooge thing. I have stated many
times that I have accepted that fact and even went out of my way to state that
there are other venues those can follow to see such things as low quality art
and Vixens with larger than life assets.

When I heard of his leaving, I did not know what to say or feel on that
matter. All I can do is wish him luck and hope at on my account, he did not
judge the rest of the fandom too harshly.

I wish to congratulate Sully for his appointment as COO of Yerf. I am sure
with his accomplishments he will continue Yerf's pledge of Quality and keeping
the archive/gallery free of spooge.

>Third, that means this newsgroup is gonna go byebye. hopefully they'll
>have something avaliable where people can chat about yerf things.
>

>I'd still retain DNS on the name yerf.com, so I could always pull the
>plug if I think they're taking it in bad direction, like allowing
>spooge, or having no quality control at all. I doubt that will happen,
>but it's just a little insurance I can give the artists that there's
>nothing bad about staying on. I wont let your art be abused. I highly
>doubt anything would happen, but I'm not taking any chances.
>

Although I feel compelled to comment on that, I will not. I learned that
respect is earned. Perhaps it is all for the best, wave a big stick to keep
those in line, We artists are a fickled lot, or at least that is how I feel
about myself, if I don't get my way, I scream about it. I have learned that
there are times when one should not scream or throw tantrums, this is one of
them.

>I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this. I
>was burned out about a year ago, and was not enjoying running the site
>anymore. So when you get to that point, it's time to either shut it
>down, or hand it over to someone else. So I'm gonna hand it over so
>yerf can live on, and I just hope whoever runs it now maintains the
>quality.
>If they care about the programming, things can only get better. I hope
>to see new features come out of it too.
>

>I'll be happy with "founder" status. :)
>(complete with a big painting of a rat high up on the wall:
>OUR FOUNDER)
>

I'm done, I don't know if what I said made any difference, lord knows a single
voice does not carry over a crowd. I want to clear my conscience of this
matter once and for all, but I doubt it will happen. You earned your rest
from Yerf Ratman, you earned my respect more now than when you ran Yerf. Even
if you were not leaving, I still would say the same. Sully has some large
paws to fill now. Your guidence in the background will help him greatly cause
there will be others out there who will not give up so easily.

As for myself, I guess I will carry on, perhaps in a few years once I get good
enough to be considered both Quality and Clean material, I will gladly submit
my application to Yerf. but for now, Velar and the newsgroups will have to
do.

Don Sanders

Dsan Tsan on #furry and on FurryMuck
Valsen Tsan on Tapestries
Artist at Roll Yer Own Graphics
http://www.dreamscape.com/dsand101/dsan.htm
(my furry page) Email dsan...@future.dreamscape.com

S. arsenault

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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Mutt wrote:
>
> > Third, that means this newsgroup is gonna go byebye. hopefully they'll
> > have something avaliable where people can chat about yerf things.
>
> What the hell? Since when was alt.fan.furry part of yerf?
> --
> ^v^
> Blessed be,
> Mutt the Pagan Fur


naw, i believe he meant the rat.yerf newsgroup..
whoopsie

S. arsenault

Ratman

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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"Matthew Milam" <dynam...@email.msn.com> wrote:

>
>Ratman wrote in message <35a636cb....@news.mv.net>...
>

>>I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this.
>

>Well, regardless of the fact it's your life and your site, how many people
>who actually helped and hurt at the same time matters. The Gargoyles Fandom
>didn't apperciate the taking down of there art, and neither did the Swat
>Kats Fandom. And not to mention nearly half of the Furry Artists.
>
>If that isn't mean, I don't know what is.

hehe.
how does 'fuck off' sound to you?
It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for ungrateful
assholes such as yourself.


Ratman

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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clar...@aol.com (ClarksScr) wrote:

>All I can say is.... "Furry Good Luck to ya!" I, also, hope that the new owners
>will keep Yerf clean. Show non-furries that we're not all sexaholics.

Like I said, I'd pull the plug if that happened.

> I'll
>really miss coming on alt.fan.furry and get a big laugh at all the flame wars
>that go on here. It seems like we cant get to post on other news groups because
>they wont let anyone post on them. Oh, well. You have a Furry Good Time and
>hope your move goes smooth and wonderful! =)

Oh, that might still happen, but it just won't be from me as much.
And I may stick around as an advisor for awhile, and I can never keep my mouth
shut when the idiots speak.


Ratman

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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Mike McGee <readsi...@bottomofpage.com> wrote:

>Ratman wrote:
>>
>> Third, that means this newsgroup is gonna go byebye. hopefully they'll
>> have something avaliable where people can chat about yerf things.

>
> ?
> alt.fan.furry is dependant on rat.org to exist? This is news to me...
>I always thought it was part of Usenet proper.

ACK!!!!!
Sorry!! I posted that to rat.yerf, and reposted it to these groups without
thinking. Sorry about that. Ugh.


Matthew Milam

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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Ratman wrote in message <35a860c4....@furry.ao.net>...

>
>hehe.
>how does 'fuck off' sound to you?

I don't know, I don't try and use that word often. But of course you would
because that's the way you are.

>It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small
minority.

So are people like you, except they have bigger mouths and work like
goverment, as a dominating power.

>I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for
ungrateful
>assholes such as yourself.

And why am I an asshole?, because i don't like the way your site is being
run? that's a boatload of people other than me, so I guess there assholes
too.

Matthew Milam
dynam...@email.msn.com


ClarkAlanC

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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>Oh, that might still happen, but it just won't be from me as much.
>And I may stick around as an advisor for awhile, and I can never keep my
>mouth
>shut when the idiots speak.
>
>

LOL! Cool! =)
It's nice to know some one can stick up to furrydom and against those who try
to pull it down to their demeaning level.
I can say that I am proud to have some of my clean artwork on Yerf, eventhough
it aint much. And thankyou for the opportunity to get noticed in the furry
world. I really appreciate it. God bless you and enjoy your new place in this
land. =)


Ixbalam

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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In article <35a860c4....@furry.ao.net>, ra...@rat.org (Ratman) wrote:

> "Matthew Milam" <dynam...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Ratman wrote in message <35a636cb....@news.mv.net>...
> >
> >>I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this.
> >
> >Well, regardless of the fact it's your life and your site, how many people
> >who actually helped and hurt at the same time matters. The Gargoyles Fandom
> >didn't apperciate the taking down of there art, and neither did the Swat
> >Kats Fandom. And not to mention nearly half of the Furry Artists.
> >
> >If that isn't mean, I don't know what is.
>

> hehe.
> how does 'fuck off' sound to you?

> It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.

> I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for ungrateful
> assholes such as yourself.

Oh gee, Ratman. Everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole. *hmm*
You're really trying hard to endear yourself to furry fans and artists and
pass on the legacy of Rat/Yerf. If you don't give a damn, neither do I
and neither should anyfur else.
So many people feel they've been left out of your efforts that they are
beyond counting. But it was your choice to exclude what you did. I guess
it's just what you wanted to do. *shrug*

I do have to wonder why the Yerf people thought they could take over
the ballroom reserved as the masquerade dressing area at AAC for a party.
They had to eat their sammiches somewhere else instead of disrupting such
a major con event.

--
Michael J. Rider, aka Ixbalam
Rot13: wnt...@zntvppnecrg.pbz
http://jaguar.home.ml.org

PS- Don't bet on such people being a minority, much less
a small one. There are plenty of furs unhappy with
Rat/Yerf policies and history.

ilr

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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I had a feeling this was going to turn ugly

> hehe.
> how does 'fuck off' sound to you?

Where's the Quality Control now?
That is quite possibly more ludicrous and disenchanting
than any 'spoogy art' that I've ever seen(And I've seen
gigs of it).

> It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.

Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
a small minority sometimes.

> I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for ungrateful
> assholes such as yourself.
>

I'm not going to comment on how you run your own Private Kingdom.
But Grateful of What?

While everyone seems to be wishing you well, you're wishing
us spooge monkeys Hell. But I for one would really be interested
in reading a lengthy account of Ratboy's personal feelings
and opinions about mature furry art and the fans there of.
I would simply digest it without saying a word in response.

My impression is that no one respects me because I
draw the kind of stuff that is unacceptable by other furs.
I don't respect myself because my art is considered
filth, and I am ashamed of it. The only piece of pride
I have is in the knowledge that I never called another
fur an "asshole" and said that they should "fuck off".

Sincerely,
-ilr

S. arsenault

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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>
> I do have to wonder why the Yerf people thought they could take over
> the ballroom reserved as the masquerade dressing area at AAC for a party.
> They had to eat their sammiches somewhere else instead of disrupting such
> a major con event.

oh come on.. that was my fault.
i didn't know they'd be tearing down the walls for the
party, so i grabbed the one it looked like no one was
using..
it's not like we made a big deal over it.. you had your
precious little party.. :)

S. arsenault
Yerf

S. arsenault

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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ilr wrote:

>ratman wrote:
>
> > It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
>
> Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> a small minority sometimes.

hmm?
does Yerf somehow violate the first amendment? :)

S. arsenault
Yerf

Ratman

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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"ilr" <i...@rof.net> wrote:

>I had a feeling this was going to turn ugly
>
>> hehe.
>> how does 'fuck off' sound to you?
>
>Where's the Quality Control now?
>That is quite possibly more ludicrous and disenchanting
>than any 'spoogy art' that I've ever seen(And I've seen
>gigs of it).

hehe. nice try.
when someone whines at me when i say i'm shutting it down, that's doesn't
exactly put me in a good mood. I'd like to just get out of this without people
taking shots at me as I flee.
I'm not sure the original poster meant those comments to me, so i probably
shouldn't have said that. So consider my "fuck off" to anyone who would whine at
me if I shut down my site. :)

>> It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
>
>Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
>a small minority sometimes.

hehe. silly.

>> I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for ungrateful
>> assholes such as yourself.
>
>I'm not going to comment on how you run your own Private Kingdom.

then what do you call this?

>But Grateful of What?

I know I don't care how you feel. So why are you telling us all? If Furnation
shut down and I didn't care, I wouldn't feel the need to tell everyone.

>While everyone seems to be wishing you well, you're wishing
>us spooge monkeys Hell. But I for one would really be interested
>in reading a lengthy account of Ratboy's personal feelings
>and opinions about mature furry art and the fans there of.
>I would simply digest it without saying a word in response.

Ok, fine.
The "spooge monkeys", which are a minority despite how visible they are, can go
to hell. But those that like erotica are in another group entirely. Sex is
wonderful, and so is erotica. There's nothing wrong with it if you're
responsible and keep it discreet and make sure people don't see it unless they
want to. Those people I have a lot of respect for.
But the assholes (like yourself) make the rest of us look bad.

>My impression is that no one respects me because I
>draw the kind of stuff that is unacceptable by other furs.
>I don't respect myself because my art is considered
>filth, and I am ashamed of it. The only piece of pride
>I have is in the knowledge that I never called another
>fur an "asshole" and said that they should "fuck off".

Hehe. That's really a shame you dont' have much elf-confidence. Trying to make
yourself feel like you're above me isn't going to solve that. You have to just
respect yourself, and not care so much what other people think.
Don't be ashamed of your art at all, no matter how "filthy". Just don't expect
everyone to love it, and don't be surprised when people don't want to see it. If
you want to spread it around, just make sure you only put it in places where
it's desired, like fur.artwork.erotica, or one of the other spoogy sites.
If you're good, you'll probably get lots of attention.

ilr

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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> >
> > Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> > a small minority sometimes.
>
I never said it did, I was talking about the people that he so generally
labeled as assholes. The more progressive free speech supporters.

Nate Patrin

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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ilr <i...@rof.net> wrote:

[note from the author: "ilr"? "Infantile Little Rants"?]



> > > Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> > > a small minority sometimes.

[Scotty's comment surgically removed by ilr for further incoherence read]

> > hmm?
> > does Yerf somehow violate the first amendment? :)

> I never said it did,

I'll leave the reader to judge for him/herself just how sharply ilr
contradicted himself (herself? itself?).

> I was talking about the people that he so generally
> labeled as assholes. The more progressive free speech supporters.

*cough cough, ahem*:

HEY, THOMAS PAINE!

There are reasons why Spin doesn't review Travis Tritt albums, reasons why
Sports Illustrated doesn't cover pinball tournaments and reasons why Yerf
doesn't allow fifteen-inch wolf dicks.

Do you not know about the difference between:

-FIRST AMENDMENT VIOLATION
and
-EDITORIAL POLICY?

I do, and I'm not even drinking age, ferchrissakes! I learned this in
tenth-grade journalism class! The Yerf admin is merely choosing not to post
your stuff. They're not keeping you from posting it to fur.art.erotica or
Velan, much less confiscating and burning it. Jeezis... it's not like Yerf
is the only furry art website out there. Maybe you're just mortally
offended that it's probably the only site out of about, oh, seven or eight
that won't display your (and I use the term loosely) "erotica".

These people rat's labeling as 'assholes' aren't "champions of free speech"
(in the vein of Jello Biafra, Ice-T and th' Late Great Frank Zappa). THEY
STILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST THEIR STUFF, JUST NOT ON YERF. So why do they
have a big grudge against rat? Maybe they feel like they're, oh, being left
out of something they believe is popular? Naah, couldn't be!

And I thought working at Ticketmaster made me a big enough pariah. Guess
posting on Yerf makes me even worse, huh? Personally, after countless
months- maybe it's gotten to years now- reading these idiotic whinings from
artistic lepers who feel the need to bitch about stuff they have maybe
third-hand knowledge of, I'd say the term 'fuck off'- if a bit blunt- is
one quite justified from someone in rat's position. With the exception of
Eric Blumrich, I'd be hard-pressed to think up the name of any fur more
disliked than rat- and all he did was grow some standards. I'd tell you
[ilr] to start your own site, but there's already one or two or ten out
there devoted to everything and anything furry on the web, no matter how
pornographic, mediocre or amateurish. Even though odds say I'm younger than
you, I'm still going to have to tell you to grow the hell up.

--
-Nate Patrin
======================================================
"Will I be drawing these damn rabbits forever?" -Matt Groening, 1990
n8r...@pioneerplanet.infi.net

SilverJain

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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Hmm, this Yerf debates have always made me wonder.....

Here's my experience, as an editor and publisher. I am shown reams and reams of
art, some of it brilliant, some of it mediocre, some of it eye-burningly bad.
From this art I am shown, I must choose stories to print in the anthologies I
do. I must choose carefully so the books continue to sell decently, and so the
readers will be happy with the product. This means I have to reject a lot of
people. (Some of whom get better, by the way and are later accepted.) But one
thing I have learned in doing comics is that people DO NOT like to be rejected.
For any reason. Period. Does this stop me from rejecting people's work? Heck
no, it's part of comics- part of any kind of publishing, really. This makes a
lot of people dislike me heartily. But if you want to play in the pool, you
have to follow the rules. Publishing is not a democracy. I have been subjected
to really horrible behavior, ugly language, threats, tears, guilt trips, temper
tantrums and more in my career as an editor/publisher. Has any of it ever
changed my mind? Nope. Has any of it ever stopped me from wanting to edit and
publish the comics I do? Nope. Has any of it changed the rules? Nope. I still
have certain standards of quality and I still follow the rules of comic
publishing- and still won't let anyone do that genetically engineered furry
slaves rising against evil human overlords story. (We've had genetically
engineered fuzzy people, but they don't use that plot...that plot has been done
to death.) And do people get pissed at me for doing this? Heck yeah.

My point here will also probably not win me any friends, but if Ratman is
paying for this server, he can pretty much set the rules. Again, it's not a
democracy, really. Anytime one person is shelling out their own hard-earned
cash on a project, they can pretty much call the shots. I can see what Ratman
is going through here- and I'm sure Scotty will end up going through it later-
no one likes the person in charge. I have been very pleased with Yerf so far,
and check in regularly to scout for new talent to keep my editorial eye on. I
check other sites also. And I would be very sad to see it go- I like the idea
of a furry server that I could tell my little sisters about with no fear of
them seeing something they're too young for yet. (And I publish Genus, so
obviously, I have nothing against adult material!)

Just my two cents...

--Elin Winkler
"Remember, Zip, evil spelled backwards is live, and we all want to do that!"
-Mok, "Rock'n'Rule"

Nate Patrin

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
Ixbalam <jaguarNO_SPAM@REMOVE_THISmagiccarpet.com> wrote:
> ra...@rat.org (Ratman) wrote:
>
> > "Matthew Milam" <dynam...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >Ratman wrote:
> > >
> > >>I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this.
> > >
> > >Well, regardless of the fact it's your life and your site, how many
people
> > >who actually helped and hurt at the same time matters. The Gargoyles
Fandom
> > >didn't apperciate the taking down of there art, and neither did the
Swat
> > >Kats Fandom. And not to mention nearly half of the Furry Artists.
> > >
> > >If that isn't mean, I don't know what is.
> >
> > hehe.
> > how does 'fuck off' sound to you?
> > It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small
minority.
> > I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for
ungrateful
> > assholes such as yourself.
>
> Oh gee, Ratman. Everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole. *hmm*

Well, is it just me, or have the vast majority of furs who've publicly
taken rat to task ACTED like assholes?



> You're really trying hard to endear yourself to furry fans and artists
and
> pass on the legacy of Rat/Yerf. If you don't give a damn, neither do I
> and neither should anyfur else.

I think he just doesn't "give a damn" (your words, not his) about the
people who've made his life as it pertains to his furry interests a big
Maalox Moment.

> So many people feel they've been left out of your efforts that they
are
> beyond counting. But it was your choice to exclude what you did. I
guess
> it's just what you wanted to do. *shrug*

Good. That means you can shut the hell up about it.

> I do have to wonder why the Yerf people thought they could take over
> the ballroom reserved as the masquerade dressing area at AAC for a party.

Heh. Nobody was actually told it was technically "reserved" for that
fursuit thing- and we didn't 'take it over', seeing as how we left without
a hassle when we were asked to. (Let me at least take this opportunity to
give huge ups to Lynx et al. for letting us join the wikkid-ass party on
the 13th floor.)



> They had to eat their sammiches somewhere else instead of disrupting such
> a major con event.

Why don't you just add a Nelson Muntz-style "Ha-haaaaa!" in there to
punctuate your bitter, smug little remark?

> PS- Don't bet on such people being a minority, much less
> a small one. There are plenty of furs unhappy with
> Rat/Yerf policies and history.

Then there should be enough members in that group to start their own furry
site and leave us the hell alone.

Akai

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
ilr wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> > > a small minority sometimes.
> >
> I never said it did, I was talking about the people that he so generally

> labeled as assholes. The more progressive free speech supporters.

How is it a violation of free speech to want an artsite that is free of
pornography? There are other sites that have porn, isn't there enough
room on the 'net for both clean and spoogy sites?

Akai

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
Nate Patrin wrote:
>
<snip>

> HEY, THOMAS PAINE!
>
> There are reasons why Spin doesn't review Travis Tritt albums, reasons why
> Sports Illustrated doesn't cover pinball tournaments and reasons why Yerf
> doesn't allow fifteen-inch wolf dicks.
>
> Do you not know about the difference between:
>
> -FIRST AMENDMENT VIOLATION
> and
> -EDITORIAL POLICY?

<snip>

> --
> -Nate Patrin
> ======================================================
> "Will I be drawing these damn rabbits forever?" -Matt Groening, 1990
> n8r...@pioneerplanet.infi.net

Hey, Nate! What happened to your website??

Glen Wooten

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
ilr <i...@rof.net> wrote:
>
> Where's the Quality Control now?
> That is quite possibly more ludicrous and disenchanting
> than any 'spoogy art' that I've ever seen(And I've seen
> gigs of it).

Therefore, there must be plenty of places that such artwork can be found
BESIDES yerf.com...

> > It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
>

> Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> a small minority sometimes.

Curious - WHAT violation of the First Amendment is occuring here? Is
anyone being prevented from placing any type of artwork they desire on a
PUBLIC carrier? Possibly, but not in this case (since Yerf would be
classified as a private carrier...) Due to the restrictions placed on
items to be placed on Yerf, are artists that are denied posting on Yerf
somehow prevented from posting to any other web site? Does Yerf take a
pro-active stance to prevent people who are denied access to Yerf from
doing so anywhere else (including there own web site?) No...

If you submit a raunchy, racy article to Hustler and the Reader's Digest,
is it a violation of the First Amendment that Hustler will print it and
Reader's Disgst won't? No. If you submit an article about the fun you
had playing by the pond when you were a kid to both magazines, and
Reader's Digest prints it while Hustlers says "What a load of cr*p! Who
gives a f*ck about that?", is there a violation? No...

You may or may not like the editorial policies of a particular magazine,
newspaper, TV or radio station, OR a website, but as long as they don't
discriminate against you or defame you, they can publish whatever they
like. You may or may not like it, but there is no violation taking place...
--
Glen Wooten

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| primary: jag...@netcom.com | secondary: glen....@fanciful.org |
_____________________________________________________________________

| Terrie's web page: http://users.aol.com/amperprodx/littlepaw.html |
_____________________________________________________________________


Susan Rankin

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
In article <35A8A585...@yerf.com>, su...@yerf.com says...

>it's not like we made a big deal over it.. you had your
>precious little party.. :)

Dressing room, sweetie, dressing room. I doubt getting in and out of some of
those zoots is anything like a party.

SusanDeer

Susan Rankin

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
In article <35A8A66D...@yerf.com>, su...@yerf.com says...
>
>ilr wrote:

>>ratman wrote:
>>
>> > It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
>>
>> Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
>> a small minority sometimes.
>
>hmm?
>does Yerf somehow violate the first amendment? :)
>
>S. arsenault
>Yerf

Oh, MAN! This is getting ugly... Look, people, fuzzballs, kritters! It's a website
not a public forum! It's not a courtroom, house or senate floor, or even a newsgroup. Thus,
rules are rules... If you can't deal with a lack of spooge, go wank elsewhere! How difficult is
that??? ARG! I can't believe you people are starting this again! All the guy is doing is
stepping down and you're all making it into a personal platform!

Rat, best of luck, really, I hope you find something that makes you happy.

Sully, congrats, I have much confidence in you.

SusanDeer

S. arsenault

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to

ooh. okay
i'm sure you're right.. a long time ago, i tried one of
those things on, an' i couldn't get out of it soon
enough! :)
ah well, i hope it was fun! i'll be sure to reserve a
good place for the yerf party next year.

lemme give a great big thank you right now... first to
Skorzy and Dale for bringing along that great big tank
of orange chocolate chip ice cream, and those homemade
chocochip cookies! wowee! talk about heavenly
sammiches! :D
also, a big thanks to the oh-so-generous Lynx for
allowing us Yerf folks to share their suite that night.
a splendid time was had by all!

S. arsenault
Yerf

okay.. i'm done this thread. :) (vroooom!)

S. arsenault

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
Susan Rankin wrote:
>
> Rat, best of luck, really, I hope you find something that makes you happy.
>
> Sully, congrats, I have much confidence in you.
>
> SusanDeer

thanks! :)

S. arsenault
Yerf

Syke

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to

S. arsenault wrote:

> ilr wrote:
> >ratman wrote:
> >
> > > It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
> >
> > Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> > a small minority sometimes.
>
> hmm?
> does Yerf somehow violate the first amendment? :)

The only way it COULD is to censor ALL Furryartwork on the web, so anyonesaying it
violates the first amendment is just bitter cause they couldn't get in.

>
>
> S. arsenault
> Yerf

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
That's Ms. Syke to you, Bud.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homepage:http://www.FurNation.com/Syke/

My email is now PostPet friendly!

Places to Find Me Online:
ICQ:11325417
Transformers Genesis:mozzarella.wpi.edu port 2000
Quinn/Nightwatch/Darius/Syke
FurryMUCK:Syke, occasionally
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Gordon McVey

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to

> Hehe. That's really a shame you dont' have much elf-confidence.

Faith in pointy-eared little guys?

--
/|_ | * * * Check out my homepage for commission information * * * |
/ O\__ | http://www.zen.co.uk/home/page/g.mcvey/ Fenn online |
\ ___/ | http://rat.org/pub/furry/mcveygor/ g.m...@zen.co.uk |
/ | ftp://furry.isc-br.com/pub/Images/Gordon-McVey/ 2:250/355.23 |


Gordon McVey

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
> Ixbalam <jaguarNO_SPAM@REMOVE_THISmagiccarpet.com> wrote:
> > ra...@rat.org (Ratman) wrote:
> >
> > Oh gee, Ratman. Everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole. *hmm*
>
> Well, is it just me, or have the vast majority of furs who've publicly
> taken rat to task ACTED like assholes?

I did post a bit of an objection here when he banned one of Sue's pieces on
the basis it was a photograph, but I tried to be polite about it. No one
responded to my post, so I guess those who disagree with rat only get
NOTICED if they're assholes :)

Syke

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to

Gordon McVey wrote:

They only get noticed because they post repeatedly to sooth the injustice they
think has occured to them. :) They twist it around to affecting them... although

I have NO idea how it does effect them.

You could easily compare it to a parent who has a child. That parent will allow
certain children to play with that child and will make rules. Is that wrong?
Does it
infringe on the child coming to play if some of the rules are:
Don't fight, no cussing, don't play in the mud and don't go into the garage.
The visiting child is usually TOLD the rules and sent home if they are broken?
Is that really wrong, I mean, the child they are visiting lives with the parent
and the parent
makes the rules. Then the other children, let's say, fight and curse the parent
to his face, well
in that case, the offender goes home, where maybe the rules are more lenient and
he can do that
kind of stuff.
Of course, other children are going to complain about going to the kids' house
with the rules, but hey,
that kid also has a huge toybox full of unbroken toys. >:)

Richard Chandler - WA Resident

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
In article <199807121746...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
silve...@aol.com (SilverJain) writes:
> Hmm, this Yerf debates have always made me wonder.....
>
> Here's my experience, as an editor and publisher. I am shown reams
> and reams of art, some of it brilliant, some of it mediocre, some of
> it eye-burningly bad.

Ditto. I really should make a scrapbook.

> From this art I am shown, I must choose stories to print in
> the anthologies I do. I must choose carefully so the books continue
> to sell decently, and so the readers will be happy with the product.
> This means I have to reject a lot of people. (Some of whom get better,
> by the way and are later accepted.) But one thing I have learned in
> doing comics is that people DO NOT like to be rejected.

Oh man, this is so true. You should SEE the rants that I get sometimes when I
reject someone's art. I've been accused of everything from Homophobia to
being Hitler's youdon'twannaknow. It's gotten to the point where I don't even
write rejection letters any more. I don't deal out the critiques I used to,
because while some people found them very helpful, others, who are so proud of
themselves because they figured out how to hold a pencil without using both
hands, take it as a personal affront that anyone would think they know
anything better than they do, as shown by their first efforts.

> For any reason. Period. Does this stop me from rejecting people's
> work? Heck no, it's part of comics- part of any kind of publishing,
> really. This makes a lot of people dislike me heartily.

The thing about being an editor and publisher is that people identify what
your tastes are, and buy books because they know what you like will be
something they will like. That's why some people read Analog and others read
Asimov's, because they know what sort of material the editors choose. Some
editors have particularly bad taste, and their books fail, like Kim Thompson
and Critters.

I happen to know that you generally pick good stuff, so I buy all your books
(And Ahela was about the only thing I didn't like all that much). In fact, I
think the books you edit have improved subtly since you left AP.

> But if you want
> to play in the pool, you have to follow the rules. Publishing is not
> a democracy. I have been subjected to really horrible behavior,
> ugly language, threats, tears, guilt trips, temper tantrums and more in
> my career as an editor/publisher. Has any of it ever changed my mind?
> Nope. Has any of it ever stopped me from wanting to edit and publish
> the comics I do? Nope. Has any of it changed the rules? Nope. I still
> have certain standards of quality and I still follow the rules of
> comic publishing- and still won't let anyone do that
> genetically engineered furry slaves rising against evil human
> overlords story. (We've had genetically engineered fuzzy people, but
> they don't use that plot...that plot has been done to death.) And
> do people get pissed at me for doing this? Heck yeah.

And as a result. The only such story was Zaibatsu Tears. Good choice. (i'm
curious about the others you get bombarded with. Is it just a symptom of the
loathing for humanity some furries exhibit?)

Guilt trips, yeah. I even got some drawn for me, like a picture of a furry
holding a rejection letter crying "why?". My answer, don't try to pluck my
heartstrings, they're monomolecular wire. I will not be guilted into letting
bad art into Gallery.

I'l have to admit though, since it's not my life's work, I have occasionally
wondered why I do it. Why do I waste conventions sitting behind a table
instead of having fun, Why do I spend a month of evenings four times a year
doing Gallery.

And i'm about to face an even more thankless task, when I finish reviewing the
artists who have been in Gallery and root out some of the deadwood. Great,
It'll prolly cost me some friends. But people buy Gallery because they know
that what I choose to publish will be stuff they like. I'm going to stop
publishing things I don't like. Period.

--
"I don't believe in Guns."
"I Do! I've actually seen one!"
"Yeah, I hear that the Government has secret warehouses where they keep them."
--
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
--
Spammer Warning: Washington State Law now provides civil penalties for UCE.


Wolfstar

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
Glen Wooten wrote:
>
> ilr <i...@rof.net> wrote:
> >
> >[...] 'spoogy art' that I've ever seen(And I've seen

> > gigs of it).
>
> Therefore, there must be plenty of places that such artwork can be found
> BESIDES yerf.com...

The amazing thing is, this point is put forth numerous times to those
against Rat in threads like this...Do they ever seem to notice it and
realize that it's true? I'm still waiting for it to happen.......

Jim Doolittle

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
In article <01bdad57$0b17a1a0$1e2226d1@ilr>, "ilr" <i...@rof.net> wrote:

> I don't respect myself because my art is considered
> filth, and I am ashamed of it. The only piece of pride


*blinkblink*

Uhh...if you don't respect the type of art you draw, why the heck do you
still draw it?


-Jim, puzzled.

--
Jim Doolittle
dool...@uiuc.edu
http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/doolittl

Syke

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98