big changes coming to yerf.com

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Ratman

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Jul 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/10/98
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I've told a bunch of people, and you know how people tell people and
rumors begin, so i may as well make an official posting.

First of all, I'm officially retiring from admin of yerf.com
I'm appointing Scotty (Sully) as COO (Chief Operations Officer).
I'll remain as an advisor with technical things, but as far as all the
decisions on who gets on, what gets deleted, and the general direction
the site goes, that's all up to him as of right now.

Second, sometime within the next 2 months, I'll be moving from New
Hampshire, to the bay area in California. My last day at my current
job at the ISP here is on September 4th.
That will mean I can't host the web server anymore, so I'm currently
working out finding a new host. I've already gotten 2 good offers, and
I'm deciding between those 2, so I don't think that will be much of a
problem.
I'm hoping Scotty can stay on, but it will ultimately be up to the new
host since they're the "owners".

Third, that means this newsgroup is gonna go byebye. hopefully they'll
have something avaliable where people can chat about yerf things.

I'd still retain DNS on the name yerf.com, so I could always pull the
plug if I think they're taking it in bad direction, like allowing
spooge, or having no quality control at all. I doubt that will happen,
but it's just a little insurance I can give the artists that there's
nothing bad about staying on. I wont let your art be abused. I highly
doubt anything would happen, but I'm not taking any chances.

I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this. I
was burned out about a year ago, and was not enjoying running the site
anymore. So when you get to that point, it's time to either shut it
down, or hand it over to someone else. So I'm gonna hand it over so
yerf can live on, and I just hope whoever runs it now maintains the
quality.
If they care about the programming, things can only get better. I hope
to see new features come out of it too.

I'll be happy with "founder" status. :)
(complete with a big painting of a rat high up on the wall:
OUR FOUNDER)


Brian W. Antoine

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Jul 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/10/98
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Ratman (ra...@rat.org) wrote:
: I'll be happy with "founder" status. :)

: (complete with a big painting of a rat high up on the wall:
: OUR FOUNDER)

"So whatta we gonna do tonight Rat?"

"The same thing we do every night, Sully ..."

*grin*

Take care and good luck with whatever you're doing next.

--
Brian W. Antoine Engineer and News Admin @
bri...@iea.com (prefered) -OR- ISC, ISC Systems Corp, ISC Bunker-Ramo,
bri...@dogear.com -OR- Olivetti North America, Olsy North America,
bri...@circuit.com Wang Global, ... Spokane, WA USA

Allen Kitchen

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Jul 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/10/98
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Ratman <ra...@rat.org> wrote in article <35a636cb....@news.mv.net>...


> I've told a bunch of people, and you know how people tell people and
> rumors begin, so i may as well make an official posting.
>
> First of all, I'm officially retiring from admin of yerf.com
> I'm appointing Scotty (Sully) as COO (Chief Operations Officer).

Ratman, let me be the first to thank you for all the hard
work and stress you have put up with over the past couple
of years. It is a thankless job. And there is no way
to keep everyone happy all the time. You've made some
vocal enemies, I know. But you've also made some friends.
And while I may have been concerned about some decisions,
I'd be proud to be considered in the friendly column.

First: my best wishes and best of luck to you on your move,
and your new life in the Bay Area. (Hmm. everyone I know is
moving there. Somebody wanna clue me in as to why? :)

Second: When me meet oneday at a convention somewhere,
I shall INSIST on buying you dinner! As a thank you for all your
effort.

Take care Ratman...

*throngs of people surrounding the castle... a lone black wolf
steps out onto the balcony, his white robes billowing about him
in the wind. He holds his hands up to the crowd to signal
quiet, then begins his announcement...*

"The Rat King has stepped down! A new king is chosen!
All hail, Sully Theopolis Rex! Long live the Heeba!"

(hheheheh)
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)

Matthew Milam

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Jul 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/10/98
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Ratman wrote in message <35a636cb....@news.mv.net>...

>I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this.

Well, regardless of the fact it's your life and your site, how many people
who actually helped and hurt at the same time matters. The Gargoyles Fandom
didn't apperciate the taking down of there art, and neither did the Swat
Kats Fandom. And not to mention nearly half of the Furry Artists.

If that isn't mean, I don't know what is.

Matthew Milam
dynam...@email.msn.com
matmi...@yahoo.com
"Regardless of the fact i'm not a major furry fan, and only semi, that
doesn't mean I don't have something to say. Of course, if you don't like
what I say, tough, i'm not a yesman."

ClarksScr

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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All I can say is.... "Furry Good Luck to ya!" I, also, hope that the new owners
will keep Yerf clean. Show non-furries that we're not all sexaholics. I'll
really miss coming on alt.fan.furry and get a big laugh at all the flame wars
that go on here. It seems like we cant get to post on other news groups because
they wont let anyone post on them. Oh, well. You have a Furry Good Time and
hope your move goes smooth and wonderful! =)
From Clark Alan Corwin
e-mail: Clar...@aol.com
A little tabby tom cat with big hopes and dreames! ^6.6^
Think "Furry" not "Fury"! =)

Message has been deleted

Mutt

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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> Third, that means this newsgroup is gonna go byebye. hopefully they'll
> have something avaliable where people can chat about yerf things.

What the hell? Since when was alt.fan.furry part of yerf?
--
^v^
Blessed be,
Mutt the Pagan Fur


Don Sanders

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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In article <35a636cb....@news.mv.net>, ra...@rat.org (Ratman) wrote:
>I've told a bunch of people, and you know how people tell people and
>rumors begin, so i may as well make an official posting.
>
>First of all, I'm officially retiring from admin of yerf.com
>I'm appointing Scotty (Sully) as COO (Chief Operations Officer).
>I'll remain as an advisor with technical things, but as far as all the
>decisions on who gets on, what gets deleted, and the general direction
>the site goes, that's all up to him as of right now.
>
>Second, sometime within the next 2 months, I'll be moving from New
>Hampshire, to the bay area in California. My last day at my current
>job at the ISP here is on September 4th.
>That will mean I can't host the web server anymore, so I'm currently
>working out finding a new host. I've already gotten 2 good offers, and
>I'm deciding between those 2, so I don't think that will be much of a
>problem.
>I'm hoping Scotty can stay on, but it will ultimately be up to the new
>host since they're the "owners".
>

It took me half the night to think about how I was going to write this, I
still don't know how this will be received, by any or all who read this.

First off, I would like to wish Ratman good luck with his future endeavors.
From it's humble beginnings, he strived to create a dream of making a place to
display the crafts of artists, and make it friendly enough for all to enjoy.
Although there were many, I include myself on this that did not see eye to eye
with his quality policies, and of course the spooge thing. I have stated many
times that I have accepted that fact and even went out of my way to state that
there are other venues those can follow to see such things as low quality art
and Vixens with larger than life assets.

When I heard of his leaving, I did not know what to say or feel on that
matter. All I can do is wish him luck and hope at on my account, he did not
judge the rest of the fandom too harshly.

I wish to congratulate Sully for his appointment as COO of Yerf. I am sure
with his accomplishments he will continue Yerf's pledge of Quality and keeping
the archive/gallery free of spooge.

>Third, that means this newsgroup is gonna go byebye. hopefully they'll
>have something avaliable where people can chat about yerf things.
>

>I'd still retain DNS on the name yerf.com, so I could always pull the
>plug if I think they're taking it in bad direction, like allowing
>spooge, or having no quality control at all. I doubt that will happen,
>but it's just a little insurance I can give the artists that there's
>nothing bad about staying on. I wont let your art be abused. I highly
>doubt anything would happen, but I'm not taking any chances.
>

Although I feel compelled to comment on that, I will not. I learned that
respect is earned. Perhaps it is all for the best, wave a big stick to keep
those in line, We artists are a fickled lot, or at least that is how I feel
about myself, if I don't get my way, I scream about it. I have learned that
there are times when one should not scream or throw tantrums, this is one of
them.

>I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this. I
>was burned out about a year ago, and was not enjoying running the site
>anymore. So when you get to that point, it's time to either shut it
>down, or hand it over to someone else. So I'm gonna hand it over so
>yerf can live on, and I just hope whoever runs it now maintains the
>quality.
>If they care about the programming, things can only get better. I hope
>to see new features come out of it too.
>

>I'll be happy with "founder" status. :)
>(complete with a big painting of a rat high up on the wall:
>OUR FOUNDER)
>

I'm done, I don't know if what I said made any difference, lord knows a single
voice does not carry over a crowd. I want to clear my conscience of this
matter once and for all, but I doubt it will happen. You earned your rest
from Yerf Ratman, you earned my respect more now than when you ran Yerf. Even
if you were not leaving, I still would say the same. Sully has some large
paws to fill now. Your guidence in the background will help him greatly cause
there will be others out there who will not give up so easily.

As for myself, I guess I will carry on, perhaps in a few years once I get good
enough to be considered both Quality and Clean material, I will gladly submit
my application to Yerf. but for now, Velar and the newsgroups will have to
do.

Don Sanders

Dsan Tsan on #furry and on FurryMuck
Valsen Tsan on Tapestries
Artist at Roll Yer Own Graphics
http://www.dreamscape.com/dsand101/dsan.htm
(my furry page) Email dsan...@future.dreamscape.com

S. arsenault

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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Mutt wrote:
>
> > Third, that means this newsgroup is gonna go byebye. hopefully they'll
> > have something avaliable where people can chat about yerf things.
>
> What the hell? Since when was alt.fan.furry part of yerf?
> --
> ^v^
> Blessed be,
> Mutt the Pagan Fur


naw, i believe he meant the rat.yerf newsgroup..
whoopsie

S. arsenault

Ratman

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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"Matthew Milam" <dynam...@email.msn.com> wrote:

>
>Ratman wrote in message <35a636cb....@news.mv.net>...
>

>>I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this.
>

>Well, regardless of the fact it's your life and your site, how many people
>who actually helped and hurt at the same time matters. The Gargoyles Fandom
>didn't apperciate the taking down of there art, and neither did the Swat
>Kats Fandom. And not to mention nearly half of the Furry Artists.
>
>If that isn't mean, I don't know what is.

hehe.
how does 'fuck off' sound to you?
It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for ungrateful
assholes such as yourself.


Ratman

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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clar...@aol.com (ClarksScr) wrote:

>All I can say is.... "Furry Good Luck to ya!" I, also, hope that the new owners
>will keep Yerf clean. Show non-furries that we're not all sexaholics.

Like I said, I'd pull the plug if that happened.

> I'll
>really miss coming on alt.fan.furry and get a big laugh at all the flame wars
>that go on here. It seems like we cant get to post on other news groups because
>they wont let anyone post on them. Oh, well. You have a Furry Good Time and
>hope your move goes smooth and wonderful! =)

Oh, that might still happen, but it just won't be from me as much.
And I may stick around as an advisor for awhile, and I can never keep my mouth
shut when the idiots speak.


Ratman

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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Mike McGee <readsi...@bottomofpage.com> wrote:

>Ratman wrote:
>>
>> Third, that means this newsgroup is gonna go byebye. hopefully they'll
>> have something avaliable where people can chat about yerf things.

>
> ?
> alt.fan.furry is dependant on rat.org to exist? This is news to me...
>I always thought it was part of Usenet proper.

ACK!!!!!
Sorry!! I posted that to rat.yerf, and reposted it to these groups without
thinking. Sorry about that. Ugh.


Matthew Milam

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Jul 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/11/98
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Ratman wrote in message <35a860c4....@furry.ao.net>...

>
>hehe.
>how does 'fuck off' sound to you?

I don't know, I don't try and use that word often. But of course you would
because that's the way you are.

>It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small
minority.

So are people like you, except they have bigger mouths and work like
goverment, as a dominating power.

>I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for
ungrateful
>assholes such as yourself.

And why am I an asshole?, because i don't like the way your site is being
run? that's a boatload of people other than me, so I guess there assholes
too.

Matthew Milam
dynam...@email.msn.com


ClarkAlanC

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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>Oh, that might still happen, but it just won't be from me as much.
>And I may stick around as an advisor for awhile, and I can never keep my
>mouth
>shut when the idiots speak.
>
>

LOL! Cool! =)
It's nice to know some one can stick up to furrydom and against those who try
to pull it down to their demeaning level.
I can say that I am proud to have some of my clean artwork on Yerf, eventhough
it aint much. And thankyou for the opportunity to get noticed in the furry
world. I really appreciate it. God bless you and enjoy your new place in this
land. =)


Ixbalam

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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In article <35a860c4....@furry.ao.net>, ra...@rat.org (Ratman) wrote:

> "Matthew Milam" <dynam...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Ratman wrote in message <35a636cb....@news.mv.net>...
> >
> >>I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this.
> >
> >Well, regardless of the fact it's your life and your site, how many people
> >who actually helped and hurt at the same time matters. The Gargoyles Fandom
> >didn't apperciate the taking down of there art, and neither did the Swat
> >Kats Fandom. And not to mention nearly half of the Furry Artists.
> >
> >If that isn't mean, I don't know what is.
>

> hehe.
> how does 'fuck off' sound to you?

> It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.

> I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for ungrateful
> assholes such as yourself.

Oh gee, Ratman. Everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole. *hmm*
You're really trying hard to endear yourself to furry fans and artists and
pass on the legacy of Rat/Yerf. If you don't give a damn, neither do I
and neither should anyfur else.
So many people feel they've been left out of your efforts that they are
beyond counting. But it was your choice to exclude what you did. I guess
it's just what you wanted to do. *shrug*

I do have to wonder why the Yerf people thought they could take over
the ballroom reserved as the masquerade dressing area at AAC for a party.
They had to eat their sammiches somewhere else instead of disrupting such
a major con event.

--
Michael J. Rider, aka Ixbalam
Rot13: wnt...@zntvppnecrg.pbz
http://jaguar.home.ml.org

PS- Don't bet on such people being a minority, much less
a small one. There are plenty of furs unhappy with
Rat/Yerf policies and history.

ilr

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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I had a feeling this was going to turn ugly

> hehe.
> how does 'fuck off' sound to you?

Where's the Quality Control now?
That is quite possibly more ludicrous and disenchanting
than any 'spoogy art' that I've ever seen(And I've seen
gigs of it).

> It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.

Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
a small minority sometimes.

> I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for ungrateful
> assholes such as yourself.
>

I'm not going to comment on how you run your own Private Kingdom.
But Grateful of What?

While everyone seems to be wishing you well, you're wishing
us spooge monkeys Hell. But I for one would really be interested
in reading a lengthy account of Ratboy's personal feelings
and opinions about mature furry art and the fans there of.
I would simply digest it without saying a word in response.

My impression is that no one respects me because I
draw the kind of stuff that is unacceptable by other furs.
I don't respect myself because my art is considered
filth, and I am ashamed of it. The only piece of pride
I have is in the knowledge that I never called another
fur an "asshole" and said that they should "fuck off".

Sincerely,
-ilr

S. arsenault

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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>
> I do have to wonder why the Yerf people thought they could take over
> the ballroom reserved as the masquerade dressing area at AAC for a party.
> They had to eat their sammiches somewhere else instead of disrupting such
> a major con event.

oh come on.. that was my fault.
i didn't know they'd be tearing down the walls for the
party, so i grabbed the one it looked like no one was
using..
it's not like we made a big deal over it.. you had your
precious little party.. :)

S. arsenault
Yerf

S. arsenault

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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ilr wrote:

>ratman wrote:
>
> > It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
>
> Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> a small minority sometimes.

hmm?
does Yerf somehow violate the first amendment? :)

S. arsenault
Yerf

Ratman

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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"ilr" <i...@rof.net> wrote:

>I had a feeling this was going to turn ugly
>
>> hehe.
>> how does 'fuck off' sound to you?
>
>Where's the Quality Control now?
>That is quite possibly more ludicrous and disenchanting
>than any 'spoogy art' that I've ever seen(And I've seen
>gigs of it).

hehe. nice try.
when someone whines at me when i say i'm shutting it down, that's doesn't
exactly put me in a good mood. I'd like to just get out of this without people
taking shots at me as I flee.
I'm not sure the original poster meant those comments to me, so i probably
shouldn't have said that. So consider my "fuck off" to anyone who would whine at
me if I shut down my site. :)

>> It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
>
>Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
>a small minority sometimes.

hehe. silly.

>> I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for ungrateful
>> assholes such as yourself.
>
>I'm not going to comment on how you run your own Private Kingdom.

then what do you call this?

>But Grateful of What?

I know I don't care how you feel. So why are you telling us all? If Furnation
shut down and I didn't care, I wouldn't feel the need to tell everyone.

>While everyone seems to be wishing you well, you're wishing
>us spooge monkeys Hell. But I for one would really be interested
>in reading a lengthy account of Ratboy's personal feelings
>and opinions about mature furry art and the fans there of.
>I would simply digest it without saying a word in response.

Ok, fine.
The "spooge monkeys", which are a minority despite how visible they are, can go
to hell. But those that like erotica are in another group entirely. Sex is
wonderful, and so is erotica. There's nothing wrong with it if you're
responsible and keep it discreet and make sure people don't see it unless they
want to. Those people I have a lot of respect for.
But the assholes (like yourself) make the rest of us look bad.

>My impression is that no one respects me because I
>draw the kind of stuff that is unacceptable by other furs.
>I don't respect myself because my art is considered
>filth, and I am ashamed of it. The only piece of pride
>I have is in the knowledge that I never called another
>fur an "asshole" and said that they should "fuck off".

Hehe. That's really a shame you dont' have much elf-confidence. Trying to make
yourself feel like you're above me isn't going to solve that. You have to just
respect yourself, and not care so much what other people think.
Don't be ashamed of your art at all, no matter how "filthy". Just don't expect
everyone to love it, and don't be surprised when people don't want to see it. If
you want to spread it around, just make sure you only put it in places where
it's desired, like fur.artwork.erotica, or one of the other spoogy sites.
If you're good, you'll probably get lots of attention.

ilr

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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> >
> > Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> > a small minority sometimes.
>
I never said it did, I was talking about the people that he so generally
labeled as assholes. The more progressive free speech supporters.

Nate Patrin

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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ilr <i...@rof.net> wrote:

[note from the author: "ilr"? "Infantile Little Rants"?]



> > > Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> > > a small minority sometimes.

[Scotty's comment surgically removed by ilr for further incoherence read]

> > hmm?
> > does Yerf somehow violate the first amendment? :)

> I never said it did,

I'll leave the reader to judge for him/herself just how sharply ilr
contradicted himself (herself? itself?).

> I was talking about the people that he so generally
> labeled as assholes. The more progressive free speech supporters.

*cough cough, ahem*:

HEY, THOMAS PAINE!

There are reasons why Spin doesn't review Travis Tritt albums, reasons why
Sports Illustrated doesn't cover pinball tournaments and reasons why Yerf
doesn't allow fifteen-inch wolf dicks.

Do you not know about the difference between:

-FIRST AMENDMENT VIOLATION
and
-EDITORIAL POLICY?

I do, and I'm not even drinking age, ferchrissakes! I learned this in
tenth-grade journalism class! The Yerf admin is merely choosing not to post
your stuff. They're not keeping you from posting it to fur.art.erotica or
Velan, much less confiscating and burning it. Jeezis... it's not like Yerf
is the only furry art website out there. Maybe you're just mortally
offended that it's probably the only site out of about, oh, seven or eight
that won't display your (and I use the term loosely) "erotica".

These people rat's labeling as 'assholes' aren't "champions of free speech"
(in the vein of Jello Biafra, Ice-T and th' Late Great Frank Zappa). THEY
STILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO POST THEIR STUFF, JUST NOT ON YERF. So why do they
have a big grudge against rat? Maybe they feel like they're, oh, being left
out of something they believe is popular? Naah, couldn't be!

And I thought working at Ticketmaster made me a big enough pariah. Guess
posting on Yerf makes me even worse, huh? Personally, after countless
months- maybe it's gotten to years now- reading these idiotic whinings from
artistic lepers who feel the need to bitch about stuff they have maybe
third-hand knowledge of, I'd say the term 'fuck off'- if a bit blunt- is
one quite justified from someone in rat's position. With the exception of
Eric Blumrich, I'd be hard-pressed to think up the name of any fur more
disliked than rat- and all he did was grow some standards. I'd tell you
[ilr] to start your own site, but there's already one or two or ten out
there devoted to everything and anything furry on the web, no matter how
pornographic, mediocre or amateurish. Even though odds say I'm younger than
you, I'm still going to have to tell you to grow the hell up.

--
-Nate Patrin
======================================================
"Will I be drawing these damn rabbits forever?" -Matt Groening, 1990
n8r...@pioneerplanet.infi.net

SilverJain

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
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Hmm, this Yerf debates have always made me wonder.....

Here's my experience, as an editor and publisher. I am shown reams and reams of
art, some of it brilliant, some of it mediocre, some of it eye-burningly bad.
From this art I am shown, I must choose stories to print in the anthologies I
do. I must choose carefully so the books continue to sell decently, and so the
readers will be happy with the product. This means I have to reject a lot of
people. (Some of whom get better, by the way and are later accepted.) But one
thing I have learned in doing comics is that people DO NOT like to be rejected.
For any reason. Period. Does this stop me from rejecting people's work? Heck
no, it's part of comics- part of any kind of publishing, really. This makes a
lot of people dislike me heartily. But if you want to play in the pool, you
have to follow the rules. Publishing is not a democracy. I have been subjected
to really horrible behavior, ugly language, threats, tears, guilt trips, temper
tantrums and more in my career as an editor/publisher. Has any of it ever
changed my mind? Nope. Has any of it ever stopped me from wanting to edit and
publish the comics I do? Nope. Has any of it changed the rules? Nope. I still
have certain standards of quality and I still follow the rules of comic
publishing- and still won't let anyone do that genetically engineered furry
slaves rising against evil human overlords story. (We've had genetically
engineered fuzzy people, but they don't use that plot...that plot has been done
to death.) And do people get pissed at me for doing this? Heck yeah.

My point here will also probably not win me any friends, but if Ratman is
paying for this server, he can pretty much set the rules. Again, it's not a
democracy, really. Anytime one person is shelling out their own hard-earned
cash on a project, they can pretty much call the shots. I can see what Ratman
is going through here- and I'm sure Scotty will end up going through it later-
no one likes the person in charge. I have been very pleased with Yerf so far,
and check in regularly to scout for new talent to keep my editorial eye on. I
check other sites also. And I would be very sad to see it go- I like the idea
of a furry server that I could tell my little sisters about with no fear of
them seeing something they're too young for yet. (And I publish Genus, so
obviously, I have nothing against adult material!)

Just my two cents...

--Elin Winkler
"Remember, Zip, evil spelled backwards is live, and we all want to do that!"
-Mok, "Rock'n'Rule"

Nate Patrin

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
Ixbalam <jaguarNO_SPAM@REMOVE_THISmagiccarpet.com> wrote:
> ra...@rat.org (Ratman) wrote:
>
> > "Matthew Milam" <dynam...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >Ratman wrote:
> > >
> > >>I have to say that I'm thrilled as hell to be getting out of this.
> > >
> > >Well, regardless of the fact it's your life and your site, how many
people
> > >who actually helped and hurt at the same time matters. The Gargoyles
Fandom
> > >didn't apperciate the taking down of there art, and neither did the
Swat
> > >Kats Fandom. And not to mention nearly half of the Furry Artists.
> > >
> > >If that isn't mean, I don't know what is.
> >
> > hehe.
> > how does 'fuck off' sound to you?
> > It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small
minority.
> > I am working on handing it off to someone else to run, but not for
ungrateful
> > assholes such as yourself.
>
> Oh gee, Ratman. Everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole. *hmm*

Well, is it just me, or have the vast majority of furs who've publicly
taken rat to task ACTED like assholes?



> You're really trying hard to endear yourself to furry fans and artists
and
> pass on the legacy of Rat/Yerf. If you don't give a damn, neither do I
> and neither should anyfur else.

I think he just doesn't "give a damn" (your words, not his) about the
people who've made his life as it pertains to his furry interests a big
Maalox Moment.

> So many people feel they've been left out of your efforts that they
are
> beyond counting. But it was your choice to exclude what you did. I
guess
> it's just what you wanted to do. *shrug*

Good. That means you can shut the hell up about it.

> I do have to wonder why the Yerf people thought they could take over
> the ballroom reserved as the masquerade dressing area at AAC for a party.

Heh. Nobody was actually told it was technically "reserved" for that
fursuit thing- and we didn't 'take it over', seeing as how we left without
a hassle when we were asked to. (Let me at least take this opportunity to
give huge ups to Lynx et al. for letting us join the wikkid-ass party on
the 13th floor.)



> They had to eat their sammiches somewhere else instead of disrupting such
> a major con event.

Why don't you just add a Nelson Muntz-style "Ha-haaaaa!" in there to
punctuate your bitter, smug little remark?

> PS- Don't bet on such people being a minority, much less
> a small one. There are plenty of furs unhappy with
> Rat/Yerf policies and history.

Then there should be enough members in that group to start their own furry
site and leave us the hell alone.

Akai

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
ilr wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> > > a small minority sometimes.
> >
> I never said it did, I was talking about the people that he so generally

> labeled as assholes. The more progressive free speech supporters.

How is it a violation of free speech to want an artsite that is free of
pornography? There are other sites that have porn, isn't there enough
room on the 'net for both clean and spoogy sites?

Akai

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
Nate Patrin wrote:
>
<snip>

> HEY, THOMAS PAINE!
>
> There are reasons why Spin doesn't review Travis Tritt albums, reasons why
> Sports Illustrated doesn't cover pinball tournaments and reasons why Yerf
> doesn't allow fifteen-inch wolf dicks.
>
> Do you not know about the difference between:
>
> -FIRST AMENDMENT VIOLATION
> and
> -EDITORIAL POLICY?

<snip>

> --
> -Nate Patrin
> ======================================================
> "Will I be drawing these damn rabbits forever?" -Matt Groening, 1990
> n8r...@pioneerplanet.infi.net

Hey, Nate! What happened to your website??

Glen Wooten

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
ilr <i...@rof.net> wrote:
>
> Where's the Quality Control now?
> That is quite possibly more ludicrous and disenchanting
> than any 'spoogy art' that I've ever seen(And I've seen
> gigs of it).

Therefore, there must be plenty of places that such artwork can be found
BESIDES yerf.com...

> > It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
>

> Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> a small minority sometimes.

Curious - WHAT violation of the First Amendment is occuring here? Is
anyone being prevented from placing any type of artwork they desire on a
PUBLIC carrier? Possibly, but not in this case (since Yerf would be
classified as a private carrier...) Due to the restrictions placed on
items to be placed on Yerf, are artists that are denied posting on Yerf
somehow prevented from posting to any other web site? Does Yerf take a
pro-active stance to prevent people who are denied access to Yerf from
doing so anywhere else (including there own web site?) No...

If you submit a raunchy, racy article to Hustler and the Reader's Digest,
is it a violation of the First Amendment that Hustler will print it and
Reader's Disgst won't? No. If you submit an article about the fun you
had playing by the pond when you were a kid to both magazines, and
Reader's Digest prints it while Hustlers says "What a load of cr*p! Who
gives a f*ck about that?", is there a violation? No...

You may or may not like the editorial policies of a particular magazine,
newspaper, TV or radio station, OR a website, but as long as they don't
discriminate against you or defame you, they can publish whatever they
like. You may or may not like it, but there is no violation taking place...
--
Glen Wooten

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| primary: jag...@netcom.com | secondary: glen....@fanciful.org |
_____________________________________________________________________

| Terrie's web page: http://users.aol.com/amperprodx/littlepaw.html |
_____________________________________________________________________


Susan Rankin

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
In article <35A8A585...@yerf.com>, su...@yerf.com says...

>it's not like we made a big deal over it.. you had your
>precious little party.. :)

Dressing room, sweetie, dressing room. I doubt getting in and out of some of
those zoots is anything like a party.

SusanDeer

Susan Rankin

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
In article <35A8A66D...@yerf.com>, su...@yerf.com says...
>
>ilr wrote:

>>ratman wrote:
>>
>> > It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
>>
>> Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
>> a small minority sometimes.
>
>hmm?
>does Yerf somehow violate the first amendment? :)
>
>S. arsenault
>Yerf

Oh, MAN! This is getting ugly... Look, people, fuzzballs, kritters! It's a website
not a public forum! It's not a courtroom, house or senate floor, or even a newsgroup. Thus,
rules are rules... If you can't deal with a lack of spooge, go wank elsewhere! How difficult is
that??? ARG! I can't believe you people are starting this again! All the guy is doing is
stepping down and you're all making it into a personal platform!

Rat, best of luck, really, I hope you find something that makes you happy.

Sully, congrats, I have much confidence in you.

SusanDeer

S. arsenault

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to

ooh. okay
i'm sure you're right.. a long time ago, i tried one of
those things on, an' i couldn't get out of it soon
enough! :)
ah well, i hope it was fun! i'll be sure to reserve a
good place for the yerf party next year.

lemme give a great big thank you right now... first to
Skorzy and Dale for bringing along that great big tank
of orange chocolate chip ice cream, and those homemade
chocochip cookies! wowee! talk about heavenly
sammiches! :D
also, a big thanks to the oh-so-generous Lynx for
allowing us Yerf folks to share their suite that night.
a splendid time was had by all!

S. arsenault
Yerf

okay.. i'm done this thread. :) (vroooom!)

S. arsenault

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
Susan Rankin wrote:
>
> Rat, best of luck, really, I hope you find something that makes you happy.
>
> Sully, congrats, I have much confidence in you.
>
> SusanDeer

thanks! :)

S. arsenault
Yerf

Syke

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to

S. arsenault wrote:

> ilr wrote:
> >ratman wrote:
> >
> > > It gives me a fuzzy feeling knowing that people like you are a small minority.
> >
> > Yeah, it sure seems that supporters of the FIRST AMENDMENT are
> > a small minority sometimes.
>
> hmm?
> does Yerf somehow violate the first amendment? :)

The only way it COULD is to censor ALL Furryartwork on the web, so anyonesaying it
violates the first amendment is just bitter cause they couldn't get in.

>
>
> S. arsenault
> Yerf

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
That's Ms. Syke to you, Bud.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Homepage:http://www.FurNation.com/Syke/

My email is now PostPet friendly!

Places to Find Me Online:
ICQ:11325417
Transformers Genesis:mozzarella.wpi.edu port 2000
Quinn/Nightwatch/Darius/Syke
FurryMUCK:Syke, occasionally
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Gordon McVey

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to

> Hehe. That's really a shame you dont' have much elf-confidence.

Faith in pointy-eared little guys?

--
/|_ | * * * Check out my homepage for commission information * * * |
/ O\__ | http://www.zen.co.uk/home/page/g.mcvey/ Fenn online |
\ ___/ | http://rat.org/pub/furry/mcveygor/ g.m...@zen.co.uk |
/ | ftp://furry.isc-br.com/pub/Images/Gordon-McVey/ 2:250/355.23 |


Gordon McVey

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
> Ixbalam <jaguarNO_SPAM@REMOVE_THISmagiccarpet.com> wrote:
> > ra...@rat.org (Ratman) wrote:
> >
> > Oh gee, Ratman. Everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole. *hmm*
>
> Well, is it just me, or have the vast majority of furs who've publicly
> taken rat to task ACTED like assholes?

I did post a bit of an objection here when he banned one of Sue's pieces on
the basis it was a photograph, but I tried to be polite about it. No one
responded to my post, so I guess those who disagree with rat only get
NOTICED if they're assholes :)

Syke

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to

Gordon McVey wrote:

They only get noticed because they post repeatedly to sooth the injustice they
think has occured to them. :) They twist it around to affecting them... although

I have NO idea how it does effect them.

You could easily compare it to a parent who has a child. That parent will allow
certain children to play with that child and will make rules. Is that wrong?
Does it
infringe on the child coming to play if some of the rules are:
Don't fight, no cussing, don't play in the mud and don't go into the garage.
The visiting child is usually TOLD the rules and sent home if they are broken?
Is that really wrong, I mean, the child they are visiting lives with the parent
and the parent
makes the rules. Then the other children, let's say, fight and curse the parent
to his face, well
in that case, the offender goes home, where maybe the rules are more lenient and
he can do that
kind of stuff.
Of course, other children are going to complain about going to the kids' house
with the rules, but hey,
that kid also has a huge toybox full of unbroken toys. >:)

Richard Chandler - WA Resident

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
In article <199807121746...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
silve...@aol.com (SilverJain) writes:
> Hmm, this Yerf debates have always made me wonder.....
>
> Here's my experience, as an editor and publisher. I am shown reams
> and reams of art, some of it brilliant, some of it mediocre, some of
> it eye-burningly bad.

Ditto. I really should make a scrapbook.

> From this art I am shown, I must choose stories to print in
> the anthologies I do. I must choose carefully so the books continue
> to sell decently, and so the readers will be happy with the product.
> This means I have to reject a lot of people. (Some of whom get better,
> by the way and are later accepted.) But one thing I have learned in
> doing comics is that people DO NOT like to be rejected.

Oh man, this is so true. You should SEE the rants that I get sometimes when I
reject someone's art. I've been accused of everything from Homophobia to
being Hitler's youdon'twannaknow. It's gotten to the point where I don't even
write rejection letters any more. I don't deal out the critiques I used to,
because while some people found them very helpful, others, who are so proud of
themselves because they figured out how to hold a pencil without using both
hands, take it as a personal affront that anyone would think they know
anything better than they do, as shown by their first efforts.

> For any reason. Period. Does this stop me from rejecting people's
> work? Heck no, it's part of comics- part of any kind of publishing,
> really. This makes a lot of people dislike me heartily.

The thing about being an editor and publisher is that people identify what
your tastes are, and buy books because they know what you like will be
something they will like. That's why some people read Analog and others read
Asimov's, because they know what sort of material the editors choose. Some
editors have particularly bad taste, and their books fail, like Kim Thompson
and Critters.

I happen to know that you generally pick good stuff, so I buy all your books
(And Ahela was about the only thing I didn't like all that much). In fact, I
think the books you edit have improved subtly since you left AP.

> But if you want
> to play in the pool, you have to follow the rules. Publishing is not
> a democracy. I have been subjected to really horrible behavior,
> ugly language, threats, tears, guilt trips, temper tantrums and more in
> my career as an editor/publisher. Has any of it ever changed my mind?
> Nope. Has any of it ever stopped me from wanting to edit and publish
> the comics I do? Nope. Has any of it changed the rules? Nope. I still
> have certain standards of quality and I still follow the rules of
> comic publishing- and still won't let anyone do that
> genetically engineered furry slaves rising against evil human
> overlords story. (We've had genetically engineered fuzzy people, but
> they don't use that plot...that plot has been done to death.) And
> do people get pissed at me for doing this? Heck yeah.

And as a result. The only such story was Zaibatsu Tears. Good choice. (i'm
curious about the others you get bombarded with. Is it just a symptom of the
loathing for humanity some furries exhibit?)

Guilt trips, yeah. I even got some drawn for me, like a picture of a furry
holding a rejection letter crying "why?". My answer, don't try to pluck my
heartstrings, they're monomolecular wire. I will not be guilted into letting
bad art into Gallery.

I'l have to admit though, since it's not my life's work, I have occasionally
wondered why I do it. Why do I waste conventions sitting behind a table
instead of having fun, Why do I spend a month of evenings four times a year
doing Gallery.

And i'm about to face an even more thankless task, when I finish reviewing the
artists who have been in Gallery and root out some of the deadwood. Great,
It'll prolly cost me some friends. But people buy Gallery because they know
that what I choose to publish will be stuff they like. I'm going to stop
publishing things I don't like. Period.

--
"I don't believe in Guns."
"I Do! I've actually seen one!"
"Yeah, I hear that the Government has secret warehouses where they keep them."
--
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
--
Spammer Warning: Washington State Law now provides civil penalties for UCE.


Wolfstar

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
Glen Wooten wrote:
>
> ilr <i...@rof.net> wrote:
> >
> >[...] 'spoogy art' that I've ever seen(And I've seen

> > gigs of it).
>
> Therefore, there must be plenty of places that such artwork can be found
> BESIDES yerf.com...

The amazing thing is, this point is put forth numerous times to those
against Rat in threads like this...Do they ever seem to notice it and
realize that it's true? I'm still waiting for it to happen.......

Jim Doolittle

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
In article <01bdad57$0b17a1a0$1e2226d1@ilr>, "ilr" <i...@rof.net> wrote:

> I don't respect myself because my art is considered
> filth, and I am ashamed of it. The only piece of pride


*blinkblink*

Uhh...if you don't respect the type of art you draw, why the heck do you
still draw it?


-Jim, puzzled.

--
Jim Doolittle
dool...@uiuc.edu
http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/doolittl

Syke

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to

Jim Doolittle wrote:

> In article <01bdad57$0b17a1a0$1e2226d1@ilr>, "ilr" <i...@rof.net> wrote:
>
> > I don't respect myself because my art is considered
> > filth, and I am ashamed of it. The only piece of pride
>
> *blinkblink*
>
> Uhh...if you don't respect the type of art you draw, why the heck do you
> still draw it?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


>
>
> -Jim, puzzled.
>
> --
> Jim Doolittle
> dool...@uiuc.edu
> http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/doolittl

--

Ixbalam

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
In article <01bdadbe$cd80be40$21db96ce@n8rich>, "Nate Patrin"
<n8r...@pioneerplanet.infi.spammers.smoke.crack.net> wrote:

> Ixbalam <jaguarNO_SPAM@REMOVE_THISmagiccarpet.com> wrote:
[...snip...]


> > Oh gee, Ratman. Everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole. *hmm*
>
> Well, is it just me, or have the vast majority of furs who've publicly
> taken rat to task ACTED like assholes?

Is it just _me_ or has Ratman acted like an asshole in the past? I
remember the message he sent out to the Swat Kats mailing list on rat.org
long ago, when he shut it down, saying that the Kats are dead and telling
everyone to get out of there. Apparently he had done the same thing
before with a Sonic mailing list. He could have said that he's not
willing to host it anymore in a nice way, but didn't. That's unfriendly,
durnit.

I've never had to deal with his rejections and removals of art myself
because I've never considered asking for a directory on his archive. I'm
not willing to put myself through the aggravation others have had. Not to
mention I don't want the comments in my image files full of advertising
for his archive.

> > They had to eat their sammiches somewhere else instead of disrupting such
> > a major con event.
>
> Why don't you just add a Nelson Muntz-style "Ha-haaaaa!" in there to
> punctuate your bitter, smug little remark?

Hmf! I'm not bitter. I'm a sweet little kitty! Want to taste? =^.^=

> Then there should be enough members in that group to start their own furry
> site and leave us the hell alone.

There is plenty of room offered on Velan and Orlando for art that
wouldn't be accepted by rat or his successor for whatever reasons (and a
big thank-you to those responsible for both!). Some of us just like to
bug Ratman about this stuff now and then.
Maybe some furs should get together and put up a 100% drippy furry
spooge site. I wonder if spoogemonkey.org is registered. =) Or
crowbar.com. `=>

--
Michael J. Rider, aka Ixbalam
Rot13: wnt...@zntvppnecrg.pbz
http://jaguar.home.ml.org

PS- Who the heck in Nelson Muntz? That kid in The Simpsons?

Syke

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Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to

The Saprophyte wrote:

** SNIP**

just blew up at him for _no reason_
**SNip*

Sure there was a reason, everyone's very flamatory, and it's FUN!

Syke

unread,
Jul 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/12/98
to
That and I'm in full swing of super b!tchy mode, and probably will be for
the next two weeks, then
I'll go back to being quiet and unassuming for two weeks, then back into
this mode for three weeks,
it's just a cycle. >:P

Ratman

unread,
Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
jaguarNO_SPAM@REMOVE_THISmagiccarpet.com (Ixbalam) wrote:

>In article <01bdadbe$cd80be40$21db96ce@n8rich>, "Nate Patrin"
><n8r...@pioneerplanet.infi.spammers.smoke.crack.net> wrote:
>
>> Ixbalam <jaguarNO_SPAM@REMOVE_THISmagiccarpet.com> wrote:
>[...snip...]
>> > Oh gee, Ratman. Everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole. *hmm*
>>
>> Well, is it just me, or have the vast majority of furs who've publicly
>> taken rat to task ACTED like assholes?
>
> Is it just _me_ or has Ratman acted like an asshole in the past? I
>remember the message he sent out to the Swat Kats mailing list on rat.org
>long ago, when he shut it down, saying that the Kats are dead and telling
>everyone to get out of there. Apparently he had done the same thing
>before with a Sonic mailing list. He could have said that he's not
>willing to host it anymore in a nice way, but didn't. That's unfriendly,
>durnit.

Hmm. Actually that's not even close to the truth.

Here's the actual posting. Show me where I act like an asshole:


Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:12:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ratman <r...@bort.mv.net>
To: ka...@lists.mv.net
Subject: THIS LIST IS COMING DOWN!

The time has come for me to shut the kats list down. There just isn't much to
talk about anymore. This is not open for debate, so don't whine at me.

Now is the time to say your goodbyes.

If I see a single flame, or whining about how I shoudln't shut it down,
the list will come down immediately. You can say anything you want to me

I'll actually pull the plug early next week, possibly sooner.

I was just going to shut it down immediatly to prevent getting flamed, but I
figured I'd give you guys a chance to say goodbye first. All it will take is
one person to ruin the final days of the list and make me pull the plug on it
prematurely. So don't flame.
Sorry I'm so apprehensive, but there was an incident when I shut down the
Sonic list, and I got flamed for it bigtime. But some people suggested I give
the kats list a chance and don't assume they'll act like the losers on the
Sonic list.

There is a newsgroup, alt.tv.swatkats
Many of you don't have access to that newsgroup, so it's not necessarily a
substitute for this list, but it's better than nothing for those of you that
do have it!

And if another mailing list pops up and I hear about it, I'll post it up on
http://rat.org/kats/list.html

It was nice talking to you all. It was fun while it lasted.


------------------------------

A few weeks later, someone else started up their own list, then I dug up the old
list and wrote to everyone letting them know about the new list. I think I acted
responsibly. I kicked everyone out, then when there was a new home, I did
everything I could to let people know where to go.

Now, why don't you get your facts straight before talking shit about me?
Or maybe you didn't count on me saving that?
Sorry if this makes me look rude, but it pisses me off to no end when people
spread lies about me.
I'd look to see what I posted to the sonic list, but I don't feel like it. This
has already wasted enough of my time.


> I've never had to deal with his rejections and removals of art myself
>because I've never considered asking for a directory on his archive. I'm
>not willing to put myself through the aggravation others have had. Not to
>mention I don't want the comments in my image files full of advertising
>for his archive.

Good.

>> > They had to eat their sammiches somewhere else instead of disrupting such
>> > a major con event.
>>
>> Why don't you just add a Nelson Muntz-style "Ha-haaaaa!" in there to
>> punctuate your bitter, smug little remark?

Bitter? The sammiches were actually quite yummy.

> Hmf! I'm not bitter. I'm a sweet little kitty! Want to taste? =^.^=

How lovely. Do you charge by the hour, or do you just have to stand in line?

>> Then there should be enough members in that group to start their own furry
>> site and leave us the hell alone.
>
> There is plenty of room offered on Velan and Orlando for art that
>wouldn't be accepted by rat or his successor for whatever reasons (and a
>big thank-you to those responsible for both!). Some of us just like to
>bug Ratman about this stuff now and then.

Why not just... shut up? Use the other sites. Just don't keep slandering me with
things I didn't do.

> Maybe some furs should get together and put up a 100% drippy furry
>spooge site. I wonder if spoogemonkey.org is registered. =) Or
>crowbar.com. `=>

That would be nice. But would the admin have the courage to stand up to the low
quality stuff?
I'd love it if someone started up yiff.com or some such thing. Similar to my
site, but erotica only.


Ratman

unread,
Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
"Gordon McVey" <g.m...@zen.co.uk> wrote:

>> Ixbalam <jaguarNO_SPAM@REMOVE_THISmagiccarpet.com> wrote:
>> > ra...@rat.org (Ratman) wrote:
>> >

>> > Oh gee, Ratman. Everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole. *hmm*
>>
>> Well, is it just me, or have the vast majority of furs who've publicly
>> taken rat to task ACTED like assholes?
>

>I did post a bit of an objection here when he banned one of Sue's pieces on
>the basis it was a photograph, but I tried to be polite about it. No one
>responded to my post, so I guess those who disagree with rat only get
>NOTICED if they're assholes :)

I'm sure all of Sue's friends "objected" to us not bending to her will.
The bottom line was how she reacted to being told no. The actual issue became
irrelevent when she up and pulled all her art off. To me that says, "childish
artist, just let them leave". Saves us trouble later down the road.

Ratman

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
Syke <str...@dallas.crosswinds.net> wrote:

>Gordon McVey wrote:
>
>> > Ixbalam <jaguarNO_SPAM@REMOVE_THISmagiccarpet.com> wrote:
>> > > ra...@rat.org (Ratman) wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Oh gee, Ratman. Everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole. *hmm*
>> >
>> > Well, is it just me, or have the vast majority of furs who've publicly
>> > taken rat to task ACTED like assholes?
>>
>> I did post a bit of an objection here when he banned one of Sue's pieces on
>> the basis it was a photograph, but I tried to be polite about it. No one
>> responded to my post, so I guess those who disagree with rat only get
>> NOTICED if they're assholes :)
>

>They only get noticed because they post repeatedly to sooth the injustice they
>think has occured to them. :) They twist it around to affecting them... although
>
>I have NO idea how it does effect them.
>
>You could easily compare it to a parent who has a child. That parent will allow
>certain children to play with that child and will make rules. Is that wrong?

Hehe! Children! I love it!
But a more friendly analogy is just going over a friend's house.
If they say "please don't smoke", then you don't smoke. That's it. If you want
to smoke, go outside.
It's not a difficult concept, but there will always be those that simply "don't
get it".
Most do get it, but aren't as loud as those that don't. I think i'm happy with
that. :)


Nate Patrin

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
Akai <ak...@teleport.com> wrote

> Hey, Nate! What happened to your website??

Well, not like this is relevant, but it's gotten stagnant and neglected.
Kinda sad, really. When I get my new site up it'll be in my sig.

The Saprophyte

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
Your pardon, Gentlefurs,
I 've just read Ilr's comments. Then I read the responses.
Then I _reread_ Ilr comments.
Please correct me if i'm wrong I believe Ilr is refering _only_ to
Rat's comments towards MM. (Reminding Rat perhaps that while Yerf is not
a public forum, AFF _IS_.) Viewed in this context, I can see nothing
overtly offensive anywhere in Ilr's post. Which would then mean that the
cream of compassionate furrydom (excepting Rat who might be accorded
some small measure of justification)just blew up at him for _no reason_
over a misunderstanding. If such is the case, that is. I may be wrong.
If I'm not, I do hope you're all very proud of yourselves. Maybe the
lesson Ilr intended is that leading by example doesn't end at what one
chooses to put on their websight.
I leave you to consider, Gentlefurs.

The Saprophyte
--
thesap...@fillers.usa.net
this address contains no spam,
artificial preservatives
or added fillers.

ilr

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
>
> [note from the author: "ilr"? "Infantile Little Rants"?]
>
I prefer "Insane" better, but what the heck...

I really like humble pie but I feel I should say something before
anyone assumes that I knew what the hell I was talking about. :(

Well the first mistake I made was sympathizing with Matt Milam
right off the bat. I assumed that this was a debate over erotica,
not Yerf.com. I don't know jack shit about Ratman(and despite
popular belief, I never applied to yerf) But I thought that
he was heavily against erotica, and calling Matt an A-hole because
he was Pro-erotica. (I know even less about Matt)

The 2nd mistake I made was getting involved in the first place.
Actually Nate, $10 says I'm younger than you(literally of course).
I'll still take every chance I get to jump into a flamewar, or start
one for that matter, because I'm an impatient newbie. I may
get a foot or two broken off in my ass, (not to mention the one
in my mouth) but there's nothing like the Crash Course to learn
me a few things. -And that's not rationalization. This is one of those
times where, despite how much you disagree, you'll just have to
accept it and say "that's just how that person is". Because I AM
VERY FUCKING SERIOUS! >=( They can't make a FAQ to cover
everything you know.

There's countless other mistakes that I don't need
to waste more of anyone's time with so I'll just
settle for publicly denouncing myself as a troll
and wait for the second wave of flames to come in.

I would like to make an apology to the Ratman
(if he'd accept one) but I already promised I wouldn't
bother him again. Someone out there probably still
has an itchy trigger finger anyway so I'll let them have
their fun before I pull the inevitable gutless wonder and
wish him well like I shoulda done in the first place.

Is anyone willing to say "I believe you" before I put
my tail between my legs, tie the long hair of my
nose to the short hair of my ass, and roll home? :)

-ilr (actually, it's similar to ill reputation)


P.S. And ferchrissakes, I do know the policy about
private censorship so quit putting words in my mouth.
I only contradicted what you thought I meant about what I
thought somebody else said about someone else like me.
Speaking of contradictions:
>>>>I'll leave the reader to judge for him/herself just how sharply ilr
>>>>contradicted ->itself.
But you put your 2 cents in anyway.
And then you went on to talk about how you're younger than
everyone else here (like you've done in several other posts.)
As if your trying to say, hey everybody, look at me, I'm
just a punk kid but I know more than most adults.
* I stopped doing that when we were both in junior high.
Anyway, you continued to pigeon-hole me with every other
whining complaining SOB who's ever had bad dealings
with Ratman. Meanwhile I was visiting Yerf.com for
the first time and reading his policies. I was very pleased
when he himself explained his views of erotica, because ,like
I said earlier, I thought he was just a naked vixen hater.
It's all MY FAULT, but I don't need you to tell me that.
However, I won't be a surprised when you do, troll, it takes one
to know one.

ilr

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
> That and I'm in full swing of super b!tchy mode, and probably will be for
> the next two weeks, then
*ilr temporalily removes his foot from his mouth to speak*
I think it's sexy :)
*and then quickly finds himself deepthroating his big toe again*

> I'll go back to being quiet and unassuming for two weeks, then back into
> this mode for three weeks,
> it's just a cycle. >:P
*"murmur"*


ilr

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
> Your pardon, Gentlefurs,
> I 've just read Ilr's comments. Then I read the responses.
> Then I _reread_ Ilr comments.
> Please correct me if i'm wrong I believe Ilr is refering _only_ to
> Rat's comments towards MM. (Reminding Rat perhaps that while Yerf is not
> a public forum, AFF _IS_.) Viewed in this context, I can see nothing
> overtly offensive anywhere in Ilr's post. Which would then mean that the
> cream of compassionate furrydom (excepting Rat who might be accorded
> some small measure of justification)just blew up at him for _no reason_
> over a misunderstanding. If such is the case, that is. I may be wrong.
> If I'm not, I do hope you're all very proud of yourselves. Maybe the
> lesson Ilr intended is that leading by example doesn't end at what one
> chooses to put on their websight.
> I leave you to consider, Gentlefurs.
>
> The Saprophyte
> --

Do you know those computer games where you kill some
ugly monsters and get points for it? Were all having
flashbacks of those stupid games so we tear eachother
down for points. Like Syke sez, it's FUN!
But your kind assumptions are correct, it was
a big misunderstanding, (like the rest of my life).
Even though I was asking for it.
It's the first time anyone's ever stuck up for me
though, and I can't thank you enough :)
-ilr

Gordon McVey

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
> "Gordon McVey" <g.m...@zen.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> Ixbalam <jaguarNO_SPAM@REMOVE_THISmagiccarpet.com> wrote:
> >> > ra...@rat.org (Ratman) wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Oh gee, Ratman. Everyone who disagrees with you is an asshole. *hmm*
> >>
> >> Well, is it just me, or have the vast majority of furs who've publicly
> >> taken rat to task ACTED like assholes?
> >
> >I did post a bit of an objection here when he banned one of Sue's pieces on
> >the basis it was a photograph, but I tried to be polite about it. No one
> >responded to my post, so I guess those who disagree with rat only get
> >NOTICED if they're assholes :)
>
> I'm sure all of Sue's friends "objected" to us not bending to her will.
> The bottom line was how she reacted to being told no. The actual issue became
> irrelevent when she up and pulled all her art off. To me that says, "childish
> artist, just let them leave". Saves us trouble later down the road.
>
Nononono.... I am capable of indepandant thought, and I can assure you that
my objection was not prompted in any way by Sue, and that the "quotation
marks" are entirely unnecessary. Yes, Sue is my friend, yes, I do value
her opinion as an artist and as a friend highly, no, that doesn't mean I am
her personal yes man.

In a similar vain, I do appreciate what you have done and the effort you
have put into yerf, and I do have the greatest respect for both you and the
rules you run yerf by, but again, that doesn't necessarily mean I will
agree with them in every case. I can understand why you banned those
annoying photos with one tiny little fur drawn in the corner, but Sue's
photo was a completely different case, and I personally feel that an
exception should have been made.


Ratman

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
"ilr" <i...@rof.net> wrote:

>I would like to make an apology to the Ratman
>(if he'd accept one) but I already promised I wouldn't
>bother him again. Someone out there probably still
>has an itchy trigger finger anyway so I'll let them have
>their fun before I pull the inevitable gutless wonder and
>wish him well like I shoulda done in the first place.

I'll accept that, and apologize myself. I was just in the mood to act all
righteous and flaming. Especially since I got that "shot at while surrendering"
feeling. Here I am quitting, and people are flaming me?

>Is anyone willing to say "I believe you" before I put
>my tail between my legs, tie the long hair of my
>nose to the short hair of my ass, and roll home? :)

I believe you.

Ratman

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
"Gordon McVey" <g.m...@zen.co.uk> wrote:

Point taken. And maybe that's a decision that will be reversed later down the
road. I guess I got a little defensive after Sue's constant whining. It's like I
just have to say no when people whine, no matter what really should be done.

But do you see my point on why I didn't allow it? That painting on her hood was
real art. Where would I draw the line? Sculptures? Finger drawn doodles on the
bathroom mirror when it's steamy? Pissing in the snow? Drawing in the dust on
your car's window? A furry snowman? Grafitti? The list goes on and on. Whenever
we make an "exception", we have to deal with tons and tons of "you let that on,
why not mine?" email. Maybe if you were an admin you'd understand?
You can't just think, "what do i want to see", you have to think, "what impact
will this have in the long run?".

Tim Gadd

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
When following up this thread, could you please not cross-post to ALF.

--
Tim Gadd
Hobart, Tasmania

Lupercal .com
@wolf-web

Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/1161/


"Ultimately, the dog... its constant presence in human experience coupled
with its nearness to the feral world, is the alter ego of man himself."

- David Gordon White, 'Myths of the Dog-Man'.


Ratman

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
sra...@op.net (Susan Rankin) wrote:

>
> Oh, MAN! This is getting ugly... Look, people, fuzzballs, kritters! It's a website
>not a public forum! It's not a courtroom, house or senate floor, or even a newsgroup. Thus,
>rules are rules... If you can't deal with a lack of spooge, go wank elsewhere! How difficult is
>that??? ARG! I can't believe you people are starting this again! All the guy is doing is
>stepping down and you're all making it into a personal platform!

Yeah, but this is how we have our fun. Seriously, I am having fun with this.
What, you want us to go outside or something? Under that big yellow thing?
ewww!!

> Rat, best of luck, really, I hope you find something that makes you happy.

Thanks. :)
And I have no actual bad feelings towards you, and I wish you well in whatever
it is you do too.


Allen Kitchen

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to

Please stop crossposting this to alt.lifestyle.furry
Thank you.

Allen Kitchen (shockwave, wolf in charge of security)


Gordon McVey

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
> "Gordon McVey" <g.m...@zen.co.uk> wrote:

> >Nononono.... I am capable of indepandant thought, and I can assure you that
> >my objection was not prompted in any way by Sue, and that the "quotation
> >marks" are entirely unnecessary. Yes, Sue is my friend, yes, I do value
> >her opinion as an artist and as a friend highly, no, that doesn't mean I am
> >her personal yes man.
> >
> >In a similar vain, I do appreciate what you have done and the effort you
> >have put into yerf, and I do have the greatest respect for both you and the
> >rules you run yerf by, but again, that doesn't necessarily mean I will
> >agree with them in every case. I can understand why you banned those
> >annoying photos with one tiny little fur drawn in the corner, but Sue's
> >photo was a completely different case, and I personally feel that an
> >exception should have been made.
>
> Point taken. And maybe that's a decision that will be reversed later down the
> road. I guess I got a little defensive after Sue's constant whining. It's like I
> just have to say no when people whine, no matter what really should be done.

Well, that is understandible, I guess. I doubt I'd appreciate the constant
complaints much either.

> But do you see my point on why I didn't allow it? That painting on her hood was
> real art. Where would I draw the line? Sculptures? Finger drawn doodles on the
> bathroom mirror when it's steamy? Pissing in the snow? Drawing in the dust on
> your car's window? A furry snowman? Grafitti? The list goes on and on. Whenever
> we make an "exception", we have to deal with tons and tons of "you let that on,
> why not mine?" email. Maybe if you were an admin you'd understand?
> You can't just think, "what do i want to see", you have to think, "what impact
> will this have in the long run?".

*chuckle* I was having a discussion with Sully along those lines on YiffNet
yesterday. The Susan Rankin picture was one of the issues that came up.
All I can say about Sully's appointment as the new yerf admin is "Rather
him than me!" :) The whole thing with photos is a real grey area, the best
you can do is to decide personally what you consider acceptible and
unacceptible, and draw your line there. I can fully appreciate why you
decided to be absolutely firm on the issue of photos and not allow them at
all. I simply disagree with it,that's all. In your posidtion, I would
have allowed Sue's photo to stay. But that's just me.

Syke

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to

ilr wrote:

> > That and I'm in full swing of super b!tchy mode, and probably will be for
> > the next two weeks, then
> *ilr temporalily removes his foot from his mouth to speak*
> I think it's sexy :)

Aiiiiiieee!!!!!!! It is not, it's when I get hypersensative and have to
commenton everything I possibly can and get into lots of trouble. >:)


> *and then quickly finds himself deepthroating his big toe again*
> > I'll go back to being quiet and unassuming for two weeks, then back into
> > this mode for three weeks,
> > it's just a cycle. >:P
> *"murmur"*

Ok, at least you have a sense of humor. :) And after reading the other post,
I'mnot flamatory anymore.

Syke

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to

ilr wrote:

> > Your pardon, Gentlefurs,
> > I 've just read Ilr's comments. Then I read the responses.
> > Then I _reread_ Ilr comments.
> > Please correct me if i'm wrong I believe Ilr is refering _only_ to
> > Rat's comments towards MM. (Reminding Rat perhaps that while Yerf is not
> > a public forum, AFF _IS_.) Viewed in this context, I can see nothing
> > overtly offensive anywhere in Ilr's post. Which would then mean that the
> > cream of compassionate furrydom (excepting Rat who might be accorded
> > some small measure of justification)just blew up at him for _no reason_
> > over a misunderstanding. If such is the case, that is. I may be wrong.
> > If I'm not, I do hope you're all very proud of yourselves. Maybe the
> > lesson Ilr intended is that leading by example doesn't end at what one
> > chooses to put on their websight.
> > I leave you to consider, Gentlefurs.
> >
> > The Saprophyte
> > --
>
> Do you know those computer games where you kill some
> ugly monsters and get points for it? Were all having
> flashbacks of those stupid games so we tear eachother
> down for points. Like Syke sez, it's FUN!

They're called MUDs and Virtual 'RPGs' *These people obviously
don't know what a REAL RPG is.* Like, Duke Nukem and Ultima,
only Ultima really is an RPG :) Anyway, this newsgroup kinda
reflects the wildlife population. There are those who are seeking any
weakness in someone and then lunge for the throat. In my case, I just
kind of enjoy mental challenges in debating a bit too much at times, just to
see how far it can be taken without becoming an actual flame. I don't
think I've every actually called anyone deragatory, simply because I lack
the facility to come up with those names and then using them is just something

I do NOT do.

To others, it bolsters self esteem and an ego, I've noticed, to pound
someone into the dirt verbally. Usually it's best just to take every post as
it is
and ignore the majority of them, or skim over them and see if there's anything
interesting
but not really READ it all the way through ;)

There are a lot of people who just look for inconsistency, but they seem to
forget about
the previous flames *notice the constant resurgence of this topic* and who has
been flamed.


> But your kind assumptions are correct, it was
> a big misunderstanding, (like the rest of my life).
> Even though I was asking for it.
> It's the first time anyone's ever stuck up for me
> though, and I can't thank you enough :)
> -ilr

Tsk tsk, no adding the like the rest of my life allowed. HALF the people here
think thesame way, so therefore, if so many people think their lives are
mistakes, then how can so
many mistakes be made except on how you LOOK at them :P At least you're
online.

Susan Rankin

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
In article <35aafe5f....@furry.ao.net>, ra...@rat.org says...

>
>Point taken. And maybe that's a decision that will be reversed later down the
>road. I guess I got a little defensive after Sue's constant whining. It's like I
>just have to say no when people whine, no matter what really should be done.

Funny, I don't recall whinning...making one snitty comment, which we're all
entitled to do at least once in our lives when we feel we've been wronged, yes, but not
whinning. It's not my style.

SusanDeer

Susan Rankin

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to
In article <35A91800...@yerf.com>, su...@yerf.com says...

>
>ooh. okay
>i'm sure you're right.. a long time ago, i tried one of
>those things on, an' i couldn't get out of it soon
>enough! :)

*Noddle* Those zoots from Lance Ikegawa are really something else, though,
eh? I'm not into zooting, but I'd LOVE to wear one of his zoots (the femme doggie or the
sabre toothed lion that was in the art show) and run around for a bit messing around with
people! @:) Would be worth the trouble of getting in and out of them!

>ah well, i hope it was fun! i'll be sure to reserve a
>good place for the yerf party next year.

Sounds like a good plan, Sully.

Btw, off-topic, but I really liked those painted rocks your mom did, has she done
a fawn yet? I'd love to have one.

H. Riesen

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98
to

On 12 Jul 1998, Susan Rankin wrote:

> In article <35A8A585...@yerf.com>, su...@yerf.com says...
>
> >it's not like we made a big deal over it.. you had your
> >precious little party.. :)
>
> Dressing room, sweetie, dressing room. I doubt getting in and out of some of
> those zoots is anything like a party.

Nor is having to stand around sweating in one for twenty minutes
while somebody holds a wedding in the middle of the Masquerade. *whew!*
I hope somebody brought that up at the feedback meeting! A "green
room" is really necessary for that sort of event, especially given the
*slow* elevators -- not being able to get out of suit is actually
dangerous.

> > SusanDeer

~*~ Auryanne the Radiant ~*~
Dragon Ascending to the Heavens
~*~ Chih Qiu Tian Long ~*~

aury...@drizzle.com
http://www.drizzle.com/~auryanne
DC.D(sun) f+ s+ h Csunlight a- $ m** d+ WL++* Fr++++ L30f Bfire g-- i+! U

Conrad Wong

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Jul 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/13/98