A Furry Store? Can it be done?

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no one in particular

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Sep 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/5/97
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(Wolf reads the ermine's post, laughs...)
Yes! This is exactly the seed of an idea I've
been looking for!
You see, when I came up with this idea, part
of me said that I'd be flamed to death unless I made
it a solid antho store, but I couldn't see how I was
going to sell it to the public at large. Even Antarctic
Press still refers to Genus, Albedo, et al, as 'Funny
Animal' titles. And they're among the most visible
of publishers who take the fandom seriously(to some
extent at least).
So we have comics, animal related stuff in
general, and fan merchandise. What we need to do is
kick it off somehow. I loathe the idea of using
a production for merchandising advertising(like
Transformers,etc...) but on the other hand, I bought
a fair amount of Robotech stuff when I had the chance.
I know that Toon Girls could sell, but there's no
chance I'm going to hand it to a company that will
option it and bury it. It HAS to be done. Maybe there's
a local bunch who want to do something furry and put
it on local access cable. Hmmm...
Castings...I swear I am not making this up,
but I just heard the word castings in my head... Yes.
I have a whole set of brochures on it. And I remember
an article in a newsletter from Grenadier(from years
ago) on how they used a centrifugal mold... Hmmm...
I need to find sculptors.
And then there's the standard nature stuff.
You're right that people will wander in. The stores
around here are packed all year long and absolutely
impossible to naviagte come Xmas. And I do so love
amethyst geodes and fragments... Hmmm... Maybe plants
as well?
Ideas, ideas, ideas...
Names? Hmmm... Are puns good or bad? Will the
public come by out of curiosity once and never return
or will they keep coming back? Furever Magic? What
about people into lizards and birds? No, I'm not going
back to that furries vs. scalies vs. featheries vs.
everything else type of thread. Can we include more
of the fandom? Maybe we can build around a center and
include the periphery as well. Like this group.
I'm really going now... Thanks for the
ideas!
BTW, I picked up that copy of Albedo yesterday
after returning a bag of soda cans and wonder of wonder,
it's glorious full color! And there's figures for sale
towards the back! This is the sort of organized furryness
that could sell. Now how do we advertise on a shoestring
without resorting to spam? Maybe pay various furs who
maintain sites for the space? Maybe furs could advertise
their businesses on each other's pages and defray the
costs of running image repositories. Maybe... The ideas
are flowing now...

(Wolf heads back to office to borrow draft of Wendy's Guide
To Shameless Self Promotion In An Age Of Public Apathy...)

Lisa Jennings

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Sep 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/5/97
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no one in particular wrote:

> Anyhow, the idea of a furry theme store comes
> to mind lately after reading so many small business
> magazines that I could barf, and it won't go away either.
> Can it be done? And what would it be called?
> Anthropomorphics? Too big to write on checks easily.
> Furtive Glances? Sounds like a singles bar. I'll have
> to consider it further. No pun intended.

Random store names that pop into my head:
The Cat's Meow
Where the Wild Things are
Furworld (hmm... sounds more like a furrier shop)
Cats CAN Dance
It's a WonderFUR Life
The Lunatic FURinge
Puss 'n' Boots (I think a grooming store has this, though)
The Furfantastic (okay, a double-pun)
Dancing Stoat (err... nevermind, I'd never pull it off without a lot of
help)

An important concept in creating a shop that specialized is that you
can't depend on just furfen to buy, so spreading out the product lines
would help. Like so:

Mugs like the "My Cup Of Tea" from Recycled Paper Products (a really
nice geisha cat)
Native jewelry, fetishes, and books dealing with Animal Totems
Folkmanis puppets and other stuffies (stuffed animals _always_ sell)

One-of-a-kind jewelry from crafters, like my hanging Wolfgirl pendant I
bought from a RenFaire friend of mine who does these fabulous carvings
of half-animals and take some of them as masters for bronze castings.
Reva and Rabbit are just one of many crafters that has no other outlet
aside from the Faires whose works would sell in a hot instant, like
Arlin Robbins started out.

Animal-adorned items like Wilton-Armetale pewter plates and settings,
trying to keep away from the 'country-style' stuff so prevalent in
houseware stores, but having some of the more hunting-style stuff is
attractive as well as maintaining an animal-theme.

Animal Conservation kits and information, while not exactly anthro do
promote an interest in the animal world, and can give the store a lift.

A stock of fanzines, comics and other fannish publications is a must,
but also add to that the science-fiction books dealing with
anthros/aliens (tracking down old and out of print stuff would be good,
like Cordwainer Smith!), Non-fiction books about people and animals,
animal care, wild animals, and animism, and the wonderfully wide
collection of children's picturebooks about animals -- many with award
winning artists -- can be displayed.

Yes, it may appear from the outside that it would resemble The Nature
Company or Natural Wonders, but that's not necessarily a bad thing...
customers know that those places are candy stores and will happily
wander in for curiousity's sake. This is how it _starts_... then you can
expect to see a regular clientele of furfen, fur lifestylists, and
protofen who are fascinated but uncertain what all this anthro-stuff is
about.

ermine (Bet you can't tell that I've thought about this one for a while,
can you?)

Tephra

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Sep 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/5/97
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I've not much to add to the ideas since all the good ones have been
said. (Plushies! Dragon and scalie plushies! *ahem*)

Just a few things then, first the storefront/web business thing. What
about catalogs? You can charge up to $5 for a big color catalog (I
recommend more along the lines of $2-3) and offer a rebate of the
catalog price on the first order to keep the catalog side of the
business from becoming a loss. This also taps the international
market if you play it right.

And if you carry larger sized tee shirts with 'cute animals saying
cool slogans' you can get that nice cross over to people like me that
would *love* to have some really cool shirts with art and slogans but
can't find my size. The plus size market has a lot of 'weight.'
(Don't bother flaming me for a percieved fat bashing pun, I'm fat
*and* I'm a dragon that flames back.)

Only thing left to say is on the name thing. To get some ideas going
I've got the following word lists:

Fur Feather Scale
Pelt Plume
Hide Quill
Coat Down

Now with some words to play with we can try for some names.

QuillFur's?
PeltDown Scale?
Plume Fur Scale? (gets wierd with the other definitions of 'scale')

Maybe more words to the pile....

--
Tephra
Daughter of Teras
Owner/Proprietor of The Alternative Dragon
DC.D/? f+ sVR++ sRL h-- CW/? a $ d+++ WL++* Fr+(^) L60t40 Bpyro

"I like it in the gutter. 'Tis warm and friendly down there,
and you meet up with all manner o' interestin' folk."
- Mudge, _Spellsinger_ by Alan Dean Foster

Andrija Popovic

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Sep 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/5/97
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In article <34100E3D.56FF@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com>,
Khr...@REMOVE.InOrbit.com wrote:
+snip

> A stock of fanzines, comics and other fannish publications is a must,
> but also add to that the science-fiction books dealing with
> anthros/aliens (tracking down old and out of print stuff would be good,
> like Cordwainer Smith!),

Cordwainer Smith is no longer out of print!! :)

NESFA press has republished both _Norstrilla_ (ISBN 0-915368-61-7 $20.95)
and his complete short stories under _The Rediscovery of Man: The Complete
Short Science Fiction of Cordwainter Smith_ (ISBN 0-915368-56-0 $24.95) so
you can get them from your local bookstore or you can write NESFA press:

NESFA Press
Post Office Box 809
Framingham, MA 01701-0203

These are really wonderfull books, with lots of loving detail put into
them and they are a MUST for any serious anthro/furry/SF fan.

> ermine (Bet you can't tell that I've thought about this one for a while,
> can you?)

Well, one bit of the puzzle is back in place. :)

--
Andrija Popovic (vu...@concentric.net)
http://www.concentric.net/~vuk6/index.html
"Dreams do not vanish, so long as people do not abandon them."
--Phantom F. Harlock _Arcadia of My Youth_

Jim Doolittle

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Sep 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/5/97
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In article <34100E3D.56FF@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com>,
Khr...@REMOVE.InOrbit.com wrote:


> ermine (Bet you can't tell that I've thought about this one for a while,
> can you?)

Sounds like you have. :)

This is something I think would be really neat, but pretty difficult to
get started. It might work better at first as a web-store, like you
mentioned...confining yourself to a particular geographic area in a
storefront might kill you for lack of clientele.

The two of you seem to have this hashed out pretty well. ;) Now you just
need someone with some capitol....

-Jim

--
Jim Doolittle Gimli in Avara Aureth on FurryMuck
dool...@uiuc.edu gi...@avara.com
http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/doolittl PGP 5.0 public key available

Amara

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Sep 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/5/97
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no one in particular wrote:
>
> (Wolf reads the ermine's post, laughs...)

> You see, when I came up with this idea, part


> of me said that I'd be flamed to death unless I made
> it a solid antho store,

That line alone makes me wonder, 'Why the hell can't you have a store
that, although is largely animal related, has other stuff?'

I may be an oddity among everyone here, but I don't eat, drink and live
furry... I merely sniff the fumes from afar, and the influences from
more mainstream anthropomorphics show up in my art more than furrydom.

If I was to create a shop, it would cater to the mainstream. I'm going
to be catering to the Mainstream with my T-Shirts (Mr Skull T-shirt is
going to be produced along side a Fox-Shark and Rat-girl, and maybe,
eventually, some SF Tshirts that would appeal to the Star Wars crowd,
without being blatantly Star Wars), under the 'Flying Armadillo
Productions' name.

Although a store with all 'furry' would appeal to the few (relative few
considering the number of people that _could_ be swayed to such a store
if there was more or less a more mainstream appeal, like Warner Bros
Stores, for example.. Commercialism, a necessary evil in business
success.), you have to think of the wants and needs of the many if you
intend to succeed or if you want to take the idea past the point of
Speculation. :)

Sorry for raining on your parade, wolf, but I dunno... the whole 'furry
and nuthin' but' attitude does get to me for a while, I think you, as a
self respecting noone in particular, should be alloewed to say that
you'd have a largely anthro store with _some_ non anthro stuff without
being flamed.. :)

I'd be behind you all the way. :)

Amy- Trying to be relatively diplomatic as she is one who caters to more
than just the furfen. :)


--
"We count 30 rebel ships, Lord Vader, but our men are so pissed they
couldn't hit a bull's butt with a bass fiddle."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Amy 'Amara' Pronovost: Anthro/Star Wars artist, Psychovixen, Fox-Shark
Official rassm Cool person (despite what Rich says), Biologist.
am...@arclight.net <*> http://rat.org/amara <*>

Amara

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Sep 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/5/97
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Lisa Jennings wrote:
>

>
> Random store names that pop into my head:
> The Cat's Meow
> Where the Wild Things are
> Furworld (hmm... sounds more like a furrier shop)
> Cats CAN Dance
> It's a WonderFUR Life
> The Lunatic FURinge
> Puss 'n' Boots (I think a grooming store has this, though)
> The Furfantastic (okay, a double-pun)
> Dancing Stoat (err... nevermind, I'd never pull it off without a lot of
> help)

There _are_ real life examples, one of which is a store called 'Cow's'
Which specialises in Cow-themed products, and I'm sure I've seen other
animal related stores kicking around :).

I don't personally believe in aiming anyting at an audience as small as
furry fandom if you're looking for financial success, you need
something with a broad spectrum appeal. :)

Amy :) Has a Cow's Tshirt, its very nifty :)

Jim Doolittle

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Sep 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/5/97
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> I don't personally believe in aiming anyting at an audience as small as
> furry fandom if you're looking for financial success, you need
> something with a broad spectrum appeal. :)

Oh no. To have this sort of venture succeed, you would have to cater to
the mainstream to some degree. Animals in general sell pretty well. People
think they're cute. (Don't we all...:) ) So you'd carry a large stock of
animal-type merchandise...and then slide in the anthropomorphic stuff.

Well, at least I think that would be a good way to go about it...I've
never actually run a buisness myself, tossing tossing in my pennies...

Jack Furlong - HillBluffer

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Sep 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/6/97
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>Cordwainer Smith is no longer out of print!! :)
>
>NESFA press has republished both _Norstrilla_ (ISBN 0-915368-61-7 $20.95)
>and his complete short stories under _The Rediscovery of Man: The Complete
>Short Science Fiction of Cordwainter Smith_ (ISBN 0-915368-56-0 $24.95) so
>you can get them from your local bookstore or you can write NESFA press:

YAY!!!
Those are OLD favorites of mine, I've got well worn (beat up)
paperback copies from ages ago.

Jack Furlong - Artist / MUCKer
Home: http://www.netcom.com/~jfurlong
Email: http://www.netcom.com/~jfurlong/contact.html

Skytech

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Sep 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/6/97
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Amara wrote:
>
> Sorry for raining on your parade, wolf, but I dunno... the whole 'furry
> and nuthin' but' attitude does get to me for a while, I think you, as a
> self respecting noone in particular, should be alloewed to say that
> you'd have a largely anthro store with _some_ non anthro stuff without
> being flamed.. :)
>

I think this explains why furry never makes it to the mainstream.
It often must accept non-furry adornments to make the furry sell.
Unfortunately, the furry ends up buried by the non-furry and we're back
to square one.
--
La kasigada vulpo
Skytech

Andrija Popovic

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Sep 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/6/97
to

> Lisa Jennings wrote:

> > Random store names that pop into my head:
> > The Cat's Meow
> > Where the Wild Things are
> > Furworld (hmm... sounds more like a furrier shop)
> > Cats CAN Dance
> > It's a WonderFUR Life
> > The Lunatic FURinge
> > Puss 'n' Boots (I think a grooming store has this, though)
> > The Furfantastic (okay, a double-pun)
> > Dancing Stoat (err... nevermind, I'd never pull it off without a lot of
> > help)
>
> There _are_ real life examples, one of which is a store called 'Cow's'
> Which specialises in Cow-themed products, and I'm sure I've seen other
> animal related stores kicking around :).

Gary Larson once said the Far Side should have been called The Cow Side.



> I don't personally believe in aiming anyting at an audience as small as
> furry fandom if you're looking for financial success, you need
> something with a broad spectrum appeal. :)

I think that's the unfortunate truth of the marketplace is you can't
survive on anthro and furry stuff alone. Maybe in an area of the country
where a lot of fur fans are packed together, making sure there is a steady
stream of customers, you could do it. But nationally you'd have to
expand...

Personaly, I'd _love_ to see more stores like Forbidden Planet in LA where
anything related to fantasy, SF, horror and other fringe elements is
avalible. :)

> Amy :) Has a Cow's Tshirt, its very nifty :)
>
>
> --
> "We count 30 rebel ships, Lord Vader, but our men are so pissed they
> couldn't hit a bull's butt with a bass fiddle."
> -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
> Amy 'Amara' Pronovost: Anthro/Star Wars artist, Psychovixen, Fox-Shark
> Official rassm Cool person (despite what Rich says), Biologist.
> am...@arclight.net <*> http://rat.org/amara <*>

--

no one in particular

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Sep 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/6/97
to

Amara wrote:
>
> no one in particular wrote:
> >
> > (Wolf reads the ermine's post, laughs...)
>
> > You see, when I came up with this idea, part
> > of me said that I'd be flamed to death unless I made
> > it a solid antho store,
>
> That line alone makes me wonder, 'Why the hell can't you have a store
> that, although is largely animal related, has other stuff?'
>
> I may be an oddity among everyone here, but I don't eat, drink and live
> furry... I merely sniff the fumes from afar, and the influences from
> more mainstream anthropomorphics show up in my art more than furrydom.
>
> If I was to create a shop, it would cater to the mainstream. I'm going
> to be catering to the Mainstream with my T-Shirts (Mr Skull T-shirt is
> going to be produced along side a Fox-Shark and Rat-girl, and maybe,
> eventually, some SF Tshirts that would appeal to the Star Wars crowd,
> without being blatantly Star Wars), under the 'Flying Armadillo
> Productions' name.
>
> Although a store with all 'furry' would appeal to the few (relative few
> considering the number of people that _could_ be swayed to such a store
> if there was more or less a more mainstream appeal, like Warner Bros
> Stores, for example.. Commercialism, a necessary evil in business
> success.), you have to think of the wants and needs of the many if you
> intend to succeed or if you want to take the idea past the point of
> Speculation. :)
>
> Sorry for raining on your parade, wolf, but I dunno... the whole 'furry
> and nuthin' but' attitude does get to me for a while, I think you, as a
> self respecting noone in particular, should be alloewed to say that
> you'd have a largely anthro store with _some_ non anthro stuff without
> being flamed.. :)
>
> I'd be behind you all the way. :)
(snip)
Great. Now all I need is someone in front of me
to suffer the slings and arrows of yadda, yadda, yadda.
It has been remarked elsewhere in this thread that
you would need a fair amount of solidly packed furry fans
to make a mainly furry store work, and I can't imagine where
you would go to pack them, or in what sort of container,
although I'm sure there's some Tupperware big enough for the
job. ;)
Seriously though, and this is another general call
out to the furry comic follwers of the northeast US, I found
exactly that principle yesterday. I visted The Card & Comic
Company store in Springfield, MA. They had Hepcats, Reality
Check, Shanda The Panda, and Albedo. But no Guardian Knights,
Genus, or Furrlough. The man there said he did stock everything
anthropomophic at Amherst, MA. The address on the business card
says: 42 N. Pleasant St. And the reason: lots of college
folk who are more interested and hip than the general comic
public when it comes to this area.
So as soon as I get a new vehicle, I'm headed to
Amherst. He mentioned UMASS students in particular. Anyone
from those parts go there?
As to getting a store under way, I'm not about to
go back to begging bankers and other such financial rocket
scientists for loans and venture capital. One way or the
other, I'm going to raise the investment money myself. There's
a few things which will get the job done quickly, and there's
a few which will do it slowly. I'm contemplating these all
simultaneously. Good thing my brain doesn't run Windows
or I'd never multitask successfully.
And one last note: I am by no means the first
and will not be the last to call for a campaign to spread
the word of the fandom. On the back of an issue of Shanda
The Panda(either sixteen or nineteen, I forget which), there
was just such a plea. So if Team Shanda is making the
pitch, step up to the bat and take a swing. We need to
keep this stuff going any way we can. Well, short of
graffitti like Wendy's kids have been painting on my
sides when I make the mistake of forgetting to set the
burglar alarm before I go to bed...

ru...@removethis.delphi.com

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Sep 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/7/97
to

Jim Doolittle wrote:
>
> In article <34109F...@snowmeow.com>, am...@snowmeow.com wrote:
>
> > I don't personally believe in aiming anyting at an audience as small as
> > furry fandom if you're looking for financial success, you need
> > something with a broad spectrum appeal. :)
>
> Oh no. To have this sort of venture succeed, you would have to cater to
> the mainstream to some degree. Animals in general sell pretty well. People
> think they're cute. (Don't we all...:) ) So you'd carry a large stock of
> animal-type merchandise...and then slide in the anthropomorphic stuff.

There is already a pretty great amount of animal merchandise on the market,
proving the general appeal.

For instance, did you know there is a yearly FOX calendar? (We've all seen the
tiger, wolf, horse, and assorted ones.)

In fact, there are already _chains_ specializing in animal merchandise.

NATURAL WONDERS is in many malls and has items with a wild animal theme. Not
the widest selection though. Mostly exclusives and pricey.

ACCENT ON ANIMALS is a Philadelphia-area chain which carries a HUGE variety
of animal stuff, both wild and domestic related. T-shirts, greeting cards,
posters, figurines (small statues), magnets, keychains, books, plushies,
calendars, and even toys, food and accessories for ferrets, birds, and other
manageable (pet) species. (No, they are not a pet shop.) Since 1866, according
to their ads.

It would seem that these people would be good test markets for furry items. If
they do well there it would be good testimony to their market appeal for any
potential backers. And they pay the rent at the mall, not you.

> Well, at least I think that would be a good way to go about it...I've
> never actually run a buisness myself, tossing tossing in my pennies...

Well, Ed Zolna is already trying to be the furry-everything store. Limited
net presence though.

- Ray

Jim Doolittle

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Sep 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/7/97
to

In article <34127F...@REMOVETHIS.delphi.com>,
ru...@REMOVETHIS.delphi.com wrote:


> Well, Ed Zolna is already trying to be the furry-everything store. Limited
> net presence though.

And doing an excellent job at it, too. I'd love to see his catalog on the web...

no one in particular

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Sep 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/7/97
to

Skytech wrote:

>
> Amara wrote:
> >
> > Sorry for raining on your parade, wolf, but I dunno... the whole 'furry
> > and nuthin' but' attitude does get to me for a while, I think you, as a
> > self respecting noone in particular, should be alloewed to say that
> > you'd have a largely anthro store with _some_ non anthro stuff without
> > being flamed.. :)
> >
>
> I think this explains why furry never makes it to the mainstream.
> It often must accept non-furry adornments to make the furry sell.
> Unfortunately, the furry ends up buried by the non-furry and we're back
> to square one.
> --
> La kasigada vulpo
> Skytech

Exactly right, but with one minor provision. Most who
carry furry fandom type stuff do so only as a result of some
few customers showing interest, not because they themselves
are into it. I haven't met a comic store owner or manager who
was into anthropomorphics, but they all were interested in
what I as a customer had to say. After all, I was holding the
money. Well, a few bucks at least.
The result is that they will only carry enough for
regulars and not play it up in an attempt to spread the word
and boost interest. As the owner of such a store, my interest
would be in spreading said interest and increasing sales
of such material.
Another thing which concerns me is that if furrydom
spreads, new strains may develop. This in and of itself is
not a problem. What is a problem is the inter-group sqabbles
and sniping that have already appeared here in a.f.f.
We've seen the threads and don't need to rehash
them, but consider what happens when a zillion new forms
of specialized furry interest come about. Will those who
were into it from way back when still feel as special as
they do now? Think what you like, but the truth is, being
part of something which is relatively exclusive, for whatever
reason, makes humans feel special. The idea in your mind,
however brief, that somehow, in some way, that you're
special, is the central driving force of almost every
fandom. It is what all people want to be for at least
one shining moment.
It occurs to me that there are a wide variety
of sexual interests, yet those into any given interest
have for a long time been dominated by a live and let live
mentality. People into whipped cream don't snipe at those into
swinging, and so on. Mostly. Granted this may have come
about because they faced much greater general public
scorn than any branch of furrydom, even spooge, but
we furs are like it or not in the same boat. Society
as a whole tends towards blandness, sameness, the cliched
lowest common denominator.
Any subgroup of that society which makes itself
too visible is going to be smacked down like a nail which
sticks up on a picnic table. To resist this, the subgroup
must become more cohesive. This means using higher intelligence
to override instinctive tribalism. Overriding the urge to
fear, hate, or merely scorn that which one does not take
part in. First amongst the main group overall, then those
other groups in a show of moral superiority. When you
show tolerance of others, it makes it easier to preach it
to others. People with fresh blood on their hands rarely
are taken seriously as peace makers.
I'm not calling for minds so open that brains fall
upon the floor. I'm not calling for tolerance of that which
your own morality rallies against. I am calling for all furs
to be understanding of areas of the fandom which they do
not particularly take to. I'm not big on FurryMUCK, but
I don't quarrel with fans of it because I like usenet
better. Like sex and science fiction, and a number of other
interest groups, this one needs to fight less amongst its
own and look to pleading if not understanding then at least
passive indifference to it to those outside. If we furs
are not to be accepted, then we must at least ask not to
be persecuted.
This cannot happen if we fight each other.

Here endeth the lesson...

Rivercoon

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Sep 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/8/97
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In article <34109F...@snowmeow.com>, Amara <am...@snowmeow.com> writes:

>There _are_ real life examples, one of which is a store called 'Cow's'
>Which specialises in Cow-themed products, and I'm sure I've seen other
>animal related stores kicking around :).

There is a store in San Antonio (just around the corner from this year's
WorldCon) called CATS CATS CATS. Just about any type of cat merchandise
you could imagine. T-shirts, callendars, cat toys, cat artwork, even cat
videos. Not videos of cats mind you but videos for cats to watch.

tswe...@vnet.ibm.com

unread,
Sep 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/8/97
to

dool...@uiuc.edu (Jim Doolittle) writes:
>ru...@REMOVETHIS.delphi.com wrote:
>
>> Well, Ed Zolna is already trying to be the furry-everything store. Limited
>> net presence though.
>
>And doing an excellent job at it, too. I'd love to see his catalog on the web...

Yes, I think Mailbox Books probably counts as the first true furry store,
albeit a mail order one. We all owe Ed Zolna a huge debt of gratitude
for providing such an efficient distribution system for furry material.

On the subject of a walk-in furry store, I agree with those who say
it would need to appeal to a more general market and carry some
non furry material. Carrying animal and cartoon merchandise seems
natural. A lot would depend on what gets promoted most by the store.
Promoting the morphic stuff would help grow the local market.

I think such a store would have a decent chance of success if it were
located in a large enough city, such as New York, Los Angeles, or
Toronto.

Terry Wessner

Lisa Jennings

unread,
Sep 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/8/97
to

Amara wrote:
>
> Lisa Jennings wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > Random store names that pop into my head:
> > The Cat's Meow
> > Where the Wild Things are
> > Furworld (hmm... sounds more like a furrier shop)
> > Cats CAN Dance
> > It's a WonderFUR Life
> > The Lunatic FURinge
> > Puss 'n' Boots (I think a grooming store has this, though)
> > The Furfantastic (okay, a double-pun)
> > Dancing Stoat (err... nevermind, I'd never pull it off without a lot of
> > help)
>
> There _are_ real life examples, one of which is a store called 'Cow's'
> Which specialises in Cow-themed products, and I'm sure I've seen other
> animal related stores kicking around :).
>
> I don't personally believe in aiming anyting at an audience as small as
> furry fandom if you're looking for financial success, you need
> something with a broad spectrum appeal. :)

As I've mentioned, I have no intention on limiting my venture to just
furryfandom, but I will use Zoiomorphics as the motif, the theme that
connects the various product lines...

ermine (has many fanciful Cat shirts, and wants more dragons)

no one in particular

unread,
Sep 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/8/97
to

tswe...@vnet.ibm.com wrote:
(snip)

> On the subject of a walk-in furry store, I agree with those who say
> it would need to appeal to a more general market and carry some
> non furry material. Carrying animal and cartoon merchandise seems
> natural. A lot would depend on what gets promoted most by the store.
> Promoting the morphic stuff would help grow the local market.
>
> I think such a store would have a decent chance of success if it were
> located in a large enough city, such as New York, Los Angeles, or
> Toronto.
>
> Terry Wessner

True. And putting it near a college or group thereof
wouldn't be bad either. Also, the store could push an in-house
brand dedicated specifically to anthropomorphics. In addition
to the non-anthro stuff. I could see little figurines of Wendy
beating the hell out of Wayd.
And the name I'm thinking of: The Village Idiot
Why not? The curiosity factor alone is decent and
I can't resist the humor of it. Especially in a small town
like this.

Chocoholic SCA'er Addict

unread,
Sep 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/8/97
to

Tephra (tep...@bicnet.net) wrote:
:
: I've not much to add to the ideas since all the good ones have been

: said. (Plushies! Dragon and scalie plushies! *ahem*)

Yeay, plushies!! :) Nothing better than a plushie to snuggle up to.

<snip!>
: And if you carry larger sized tee shirts with 'cute animals saying


: cool slogans' you can get that nice cross over to people like me that
: would *love* to have some really cool shirts with art and slogans but
: can't find my size. The plus size market has a lot of 'weight.'
: (Don't bother flaming me for a percieved fat bashing pun, I'm fat
: *and* I'm a dragon that flames back.)

<snip!>

Another good idea. I'm not the thinnest of people myself and would love to
have some of the cut animals T-shirts in a larger size. I think the cute
animal t-shirts would also sell welll to a mainstream audience as well.

Catchclaw
--
m...@clark.net---------------------Geek Code---------...@clark.net
GC e++ d H+ s+:+ g+ p? au a- w+ v C++ UV++ E+ N++ K- M++ V W+ -po+ Y+ t
!5 R+ G tv b+++ B-- u+ h+ f !r n- x?


Lisa Jennings

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Sep 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/8/97
to

Tephra wrote:
>
> I've not much to add to the ideas since all the good ones have been
> said. (Plushies! Dragon and scalie plushies! *ahem*)

I'm sorry if my posts didn't imply this, but yes, I advocate the scalies
and feathered folk as well...

> Just a few things then, first the storefront/web business thing. What
> about catalogs? You can charge up to $5 for a big color catalog (I
> recommend more along the lines of $2-3) and offer a rebate of the
> catalog price on the first order to keep the catalog side of the
> business from becoming a loss. This also taps the international
> market if you play it right.

The problem with that is for a start-up company, you don't have the
upfront costs to pay for the manufacturing of a color catalog in the
quanities needed for the retail price to be $2-3 (or even $5, depending
on page count). Catalogs cost _money_... an online catalog to _start_ is
more economical and allows you to play with layouts and get comments
from viewers before you toss the $2500 for printing out a full-color
catalog...

> And if you carry larger sized tee shirts with 'cute animals saying
> cool slogans' you can get that nice cross over to people like me that
> would *love* to have some really cool shirts with art and slogans but
> can't find my size. The plus size market has a lot of 'weight.'
> (Don't bother flaming me for a percieved fat bashing pun, I'm fat
> *and* I'm a dragon that flames back.)

Actually, if *I* was running the store... I'd make sure that T-shirt
ranged in size from XS to 4X. I'm actually a very small person, and I'm
rather tired of finding that all the neatest shirts are only in
children's sizes (which are just too small for me), and that Adult Small
these days is oversized for me... heck, I've got a collection of
'tunics' because I wanted that design but they only had it in large!

T-shirts are also one of those areas where you can pick up commercial
stock as well as craftsman stock... Jim Groat's Red Shetland shirt along
with Omaha the Cat Dancer shirts along with the "Cats wearing clothes"
shirts and the "attitude" shirts that I keep running into at Pet
Shows.... as well as the wrap-around Dragon shirts and the hand-colored
shirts and the embroidered shirts.... Theoretically you can have just a
T-Shirt shop! (There are several people who attend cat/pet shows that do
nothing but sell shirts, both realistic and toony designs...)

> Only thing left to say is on the name thing. To get some ideas going
> I've got the following word lists:
>
> Fur Feather Scale
> Pelt Plume
> Hide Quill
> Coat Down
>
> Now with some words to play with we can try for some names.
>
> QuillFur's?
> PeltDown Scale?
> Plume Fur Scale? (gets wierd with the other definitions of 'scale')

How about Up Scale Furs?

Things like "The Sign of the Blushing Dragon" are also available...
again, I'm not against the non-furred folk, but I'm also trying for a
wide audience. "Dragon" in a name more often denotes someone in the SCA
or wicca (having seen the fights over names in Orange County), so I'm
likely to be wary of that unless I lean more into the animal-totem and
heraldry stuff.

ermine

Lisa Jennings

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Sep 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/8/97
to

Amara wrote:
>
> no one in particular wrote:
> >
> > (Wolf reads the ermine's post, laughs...)
>
> > You see, when I came up with this idea, part
> > of me said that I'd be flamed to death unless I made
> > it a solid antho store,
>
> That line alone makes me wonder, 'Why the hell can't you have a store
> that, although is largely animal related, has other stuff?'

I often wonder about that myself... I mean, honestly, there isn't enough
things being produced out there that's _strictly zoiomorphic_ that would
hold a shop together. Also, the general idea that _I_ had was simply to
have items that are _difficult to find_ located in one place -- for me
that means realistic animal stuffies of critters often overlooked like
the coyotes and the lynxes, as well as the zoiomorphic stuff that I know
is out there but being made by people who have never heard of Furry
Fandom as the animistic art is more for the spiritual aspects.

> I may be an oddity among everyone here, but I don't eat, drink and live
> furry... I merely sniff the fumes from afar, and the influences from
> more mainstream anthropomorphics show up in my art more than furrydom.

Well, I used to eat, drink, and live Star Wars, but I'm better now... :3

I'm an enthusiast of anthropomorphism... I'm also a pragmatist. I can
made a doctorial thesis how Anthropomorphism Effects Everyday Life
(which is does), but that still won't stop the average football fan from
looking at me funny when I describe the inner emotional responses
regarding Animal Mascots and the Fursuiters. The best way to get
furrydom into the mainstream is to get a public acceptance of it. That
means catering a decent chunk of the venture to the non-furryfan who
just might like animals and is intrigued by the stuffies in the
(virtual) window. :3

> If I was to create a shop, it would cater to the mainstream. I'm going
> to be catering to the Mainstream with my T-Shirts (Mr Skull T-shirt is
> going to be produced along side a Fox-Shark and Rat-girl, and maybe,
> eventually, some SF Tshirts that would appeal to the Star Wars crowd,
> without being blatantly Star Wars), under the 'Flying Armadillo
> Productions' name.

If Dancing Stoat ever became a retail business, I would be patterning it
off my friend Mara's shop DragonMarsh in Riverside, California... I
would have books and clothes and jewelry and other trinkets, a big mix
of generally-sellable stuff and the more exotic stuff that my _regulars_
would buy. Slowly, as the clientele gets larger with regulars and/or the
community accepts my store's presence (steady sales), I would increase
those items that would sell, decrease the non-furfan items that don't
sell, and add new products in the Anthro line... I would also maintain a
Craftsman presence as well as be a Clearinghouse of Information (Mara
keeps a decent stock of all SCA publications for the beginner as well as
a board listing all Faires and wiccan activities in the area).

I would be different than DragonMarsh in the simple fact that (a) I will
almost certainly start as a Webstore and (b) my focus is Information and
Effects of Times Lateral and Logitudinal -- science fiction will freely
intermingle with Amerind Traditions, as long as animals are involved.
This actually appeals to the mainstream: folktales like Red Riding Hood
are still popular, and seeing a gei-clad Fox in full regalia as a
soft-sculpture would bring interested faces of children and adults,
those of Japanese decent and those who just appreciate 'dolls'... I'm
aiming for the 'furry' in everyone, the child that most adults still
cling to as their reason for liking animals and animation. Open _their_
eyes to zoiomorphism, and you will find the world is far furrier than
this little fandom realizes. :3

> Although a store with all 'furry' would appeal to the few (relative few
> considering the number of people that _could_ be swayed to such a store
> if there was more or less a more mainstream appeal, like Warner Bros
> Stores, for example.. Commercialism, a necessary evil in business
> success.), you have to think of the wants and needs of the many if you
> intend to succeed or if you want to take the idea past the point of
> Speculation. :)

The Warner Brothers stores are actually a good example, for a different
reason....

They never thought of commercializing _clothing_ until they noticed
grown adults still wearing their Disneyland T-Shirts... and fact of the
matter is that demographic studies show that Adults still have good
associations with the cartoons they grew up with like Bugs, Daffy, and
Wile E. Coyote... There are the usual children-oriented stuff in a WB
store, but pay attention to all the stuff that's _not_ for kids: the
clothing, the kitchenware, the wall of cells and the sculptures. Sure,
kids are a market, but Parents don't stay in a Disney Store nearly as
long as they do in a WB store, and they're the ones holding the wallet.

> Sorry for raining on your parade, wolf, but I dunno... the whole 'furry
> and nuthin' but' attitude does get to me for a while, I think you, as a
> self respecting noone in particular, should be alloewed to say that
> you'd have a largely anthro store with _some_ non anthro stuff without
> being flamed.. :)

While I have not heard this attitude regarding this thread, I know from
the Fan vs. Lifestyler flames that people can be awfully narrow in their
judgements... you can't _afford_ to be that narrow when making a living
in retail.

> I'd be behind you all the way. :)
>

> Amy- Trying to be relatively diplomatic as she is one who caters to more
> than just the furfen. :)

Here, here! :3

ermine (StarWars, Science Fiction, Furry Fandom, Egyptology and 16th
Century Cooking Recreation enthusiast, with a sprinkling of SCA,
Shamanism, Nipponphile and Anglophile on the side)
home email: Khr...@InOrbit.com

ru...@removethis.delphi.com

unread,
Sep 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/10/97
to

Jim Doolittle wrote:
>
> In article <34127F...@REMOVETHIS.delphi.com>,

> ru...@REMOVETHIS.delphi.com wrote:
>
> > Well, Ed Zolna is already trying to be the furry-everything store. Limited
> > net presence though.
>
> And doing an excellent job at it, too. I'd love to see his catalog on the web...

I talked with him about that a couple of weeks ago. He is not a computer techie
and has no interest in HTML, etc. Plus, keeping his list complete and up to date
would be a real chore. His inventory changes with every day. The catalog is just
part of what he has. If there's something you're looking for, ask. He has a lot
of odd bits and buys things from collectors and venders all the time.

- Ray

Andrija Popovic

unread,
Sep 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/10/97
to

In article <34143AD7.4C62@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com>,
Khr...@REMOVE.InOrbit.com wrote:

> Andrija Popovic wrote:
> > Cordwainer Smith is no longer out of print!! :)
> >
> > NESFA press has republished both _Norstrilla_ (ISBN 0-915368-61-7 $20.95)
> > and his complete short stories under _The Rediscovery of Man: The Complete
> > Short Science Fiction of Cordwainter Smith_ (ISBN 0-915368-56-0 $24.95) so
> > you can get them from your local bookstore or you can write NESFA press:
> >
> > NESFA Press
> > Post Office Box 809
> > Framingham, MA 01701-0203
> >
> > These are really wonderfull books, with lots of loving detail put into
> > them and they are a MUST for any serious anthro/furry/SF fan.
>
> OOOOOH!!!! Up the Underpeople! :3
>
> Definitely, definitely get these books... I don't know if the
> Underpeople would be considered the first anthropomorphics,but they're
> darned close. And every mustelid must read "Mother Hittons Littul
> Kittons"... my first ferret was named Kitt'n intentionally because of
> that story. :3

Oh, my...I feel dreadfully sorry for any burglers who wandered upon your
first ferret. ;) As for the underpeople being the first Anthropomorphics,
probably not. In the strictest sense, the first time someone told a story
where the animals talked would probably be it. But, I think they are the
first time in Science Fiction literature that they were used as a serious
metaphor for oppressed people.



> > > ermine (Bet you can't tell that I've thought about this one for a while,
> > > can you?)
> >

> > Well, one bit of the puzzle is back in place. :)

+snip

> After I get up the capital to finish the Other Suns books, then I could
> start working on something like a webstore.... :3

Well, if you ever need a copy editor or someone to tighten up the
prose...or, heck, even playtest (If I can get a few friends interested)
you've got my e-mail addy. :)

> ermine

Tephra

unread,
Sep 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/11/97
to

>> I've not much to add to the ideas since all the good ones have been
>> said. (Plushies! Dragon and scalie plushies! *ahem*)
>
>I'm sorry if my posts didn't imply this, but yes, I advocate the scalies
>and feathered folk as well...

Your posts were fine. I was just remarking on the relative lack of
plushies of the scalie persuasions. The dragon plushies I do find are
too cartoony for my taste.

>> Just a few things then, first the storefront/web business thing. What
>> about catalogs? You can charge up to $5 for a big color catalog (I
>> recommend more along the lines of $2-3) and offer a rebate of the
>> catalog price on the first order to keep the catalog side of the
>> business from becoming a loss. This also taps the international
>> market if you play it right.
>
>The problem with that is for a start-up company, you don't have the
>upfront costs to pay for the manufacturing of a color catalog in the
>quanities needed for the retail price to be $2-3 (or even $5, depending
>on page count). Catalogs cost _money_... an online catalog to _start_ is
>more economical and allows you to play with layouts and get comments
>from viewers before you toss the $2500 for printing out a full-color
>catalog...

How does a catalog stnd up to a store front in cost comparison? At
least a catalog is not dependent on local the way a store front does.
And I certainly wouldn't do either without some market research, part
of which would definitely be an online catalog that I monitored for
the amount of hits it got.

>> And if you carry larger sized tee shirts with 'cute animals saying
>> cool slogans' you can get that nice cross over to people like me that
>> would *love* to have some really cool shirts with art and slogans but
>> can't find my size. The plus size market has a lot of 'weight.'
>> (Don't bother flaming me for a percieved fat bashing pun, I'm fat
>> *and* I'm a dragon that flames back.)
>
>Actually, if *I* was running the store... I'd make sure that T-shirt
>ranged in size from XS to 4X. I'm actually a very small person, and I'm
>rather tired of finding that all the neatest shirts are only in
>children's sizes (which are just too small for me), and that Adult Small
>these days is oversized for me... heck, I've got a collection of
>'tunics' because I wanted that design but they only had it in large!

I'm large and tall, two problems to deal with. Tees to 4X is
definitely a Good Thing (tm) in my book!

>T-shirts are also one of those areas where you can pick up commercial
>stock as well as craftsman stock... Jim Groat's Red Shetland shirt along
>with Omaha the Cat Dancer shirts along with the "Cats wearing clothes"
>shirts and the "attitude" shirts that I keep running into at Pet
>Shows.... as well as the wrap-around Dragon shirts and the hand-colored
>shirts and the embroidered shirts.... Theoretically you can have just a
>T-Shirt shop! (There are several people who attend cat/pet shows that do
>nothing but sell shirts, both realistic and toony designs...)

And it gets around that sub thread about keeping the store 'pure
furry.' I really do wonder why this fandom has such an all or nothing
attitude about things sometimes....

>> Only thing left to say is on the name thing. To get some ideas going
>> I've got the following word lists:
>>
>> Fur Feather Scale
>> Pelt Plume
>> Hide Quill
>> Coat Down
>>
>> Now with some words to play with we can try for some names.
>>
>> QuillFur's?
>> PeltDown Scale?
>> Plume Fur Scale? (gets wierd with the other definitions of 'scale')
>
>How about Up Scale Furs?

That would work for me if it was more prints, figurines, sculpture,
and jewelry than plushies and tee shirts. (Plushies made from glitzy
fabrics might make it though.)

>Things like "The Sign of the Blushing Dragon" are also available...
>again, I'm not against the non-furred folk, but I'm also trying for a
>wide audience. "Dragon" in a name more often denotes someone in the SCA
>or wicca (having seen the fights over names in Orange County), so I'm
>likely to be wary of that unless I lean more into the animal-totem and
>heraldry stuff.

And dragon takes another association near asian communities as well.

The *New* Fur Trade?

>ermine

Tephra

unread,
Sep 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/11/97
to

>: I've not much to add to the ideas since all the good ones have been

>: said. (Plushies! Dragon and scalie plushies! *ahem*)
>
>Yeay, plushies!! :) Nothing better than a plushie to snuggle up to.

Well... and SO maybe. ;>

><snip!>
>: And if you carry larger sized tee shirts with 'cute animals saying


>: cool slogans' you can get that nice cross over to people like me that
>: would *love* to have some really cool shirts with art and slogans but
>: can't find my size. The plus size market has a lot of 'weight.'
>: (Don't bother flaming me for a percieved fat bashing pun, I'm fat
>: *and* I'm a dragon that flames back.)

><snip!>
>
>Another good idea. I'm not the thinnest of people myself and would love to
>have some of the cut animals T-shirts in a larger size. I think the cute
>animal t-shirts would also sell welll to a mainstream audience as well.

Cute animal t-shirts sell very well in the mainstream, and low and
behold, they're still 'furry' merchandise! *grin*

>Catchclaw

Hiyas Catchclaw! You know it occured to me the other day I might have
met you before AAC, at CF8. :) Going to CF9?

Lisa Jennings

unread,
Sep 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/11/97
to

Tephra wrote:
> Your posts were fine. I was just remarking on the relative lack of
> plushies of the scalie persuasions. The dragon plushies I do find are
> too cartoony for my taste.

Oh, agreed! Just _try_ finding a gryphon plushie!

> >The problem with that is for a start-up company, you don't have the
> >upfront costs to pay for the manufacturing of a color catalog in the
> >quanities needed for the retail price to be $2-3 (or even $5, depending
> >on page count). Catalogs cost _money_... an online catalog to _start_ is
> >more economical and allows you to play with layouts and get comments
> >from viewers before you toss the $2500 for printing out a full-color
> >catalog...
>
> How does a catalog stnd up to a store front in cost comparison? At
> least a catalog is not dependent on local the way a store front does.
> And I certainly wouldn't do either without some market research, part
> of which would definitely be an online catalog that I monitored for
> the amount of hits it got.

Store fronts versus catalogs are no comparison...

What you got to look at is the whole picture of starting an _new
business_, which is more than just a store front or catalog _or_
website. You still need to set up the licences and tax certificates, the
DBA, the various other forms to federal, state, county, and municipal
agencies, the 5-Year Plan, the contacts to distributors for your
inventory, the credit lines to _buy_ the inventory.... it all adds up.
A home-based business solves the problem of the costs of a real property
(leasing, taxes, insurance, non-stock equipement, etc.), but you still
must plan for spending a lot of money on just getting your initial
inventory and all the permits to sell them.

A color catalog is a major investment... a black-and-white catalog with
a color cover and possibly a color insert is more cost-effective. When I
talk about the WebStore, I'm making a big shortcut... whether or not it
gets _lots_ of hits, you only need a few from the right places to start
out. Using the webstore as a testing ground for you Catalog lets you do
a lot of pre-press footwork without the costs of printing proofs... when
you got it the way you like and the way that your customers respond best
to, _then_ you can get out the bids for printing it.

> >Actually, if *I* was running the store... I'd make sure that T-shirt
> >ranged in size from XS to 4X. I'm actually a very small person, and I'm
> >rather tired of finding that all the neatest shirts are only in
> >children's sizes (which are just too small for me), and that Adult Small
> >these days is oversized for me... heck, I've got a collection of
> >'tunics' because I wanted that design but they only had it in large!
>
> I'm large and tall, two problems to deal with. Tees to 4X is
> definitely a Good Thing (tm) in my book!

Oh, absolutely... I've got too many Large Friends that I'd want to
outfit to _not_ add a Plus Sizes range.

> >T-shirts are also one of those areas where you can pick up commercial
> >stock as well as craftsman stock... Jim Groat's Red Shetland shirt along
> >with Omaha the Cat Dancer shirts along with the "Cats wearing clothes"
> >shirts and the "attitude" shirts that I keep running into at Pet
> >Shows.... as well as the wrap-around Dragon shirts and the hand-colored
> >shirts and the embroidered shirts.... Theoretically you can have just a
> >T-Shirt shop! (There are several people who attend cat/pet shows that do
> >nothing but sell shirts, both realistic and toony designs...)
>
> And it gets around that sub thread about keeping the store 'pure
> furry.' I really do wonder why this fandom has such an all or nothing
> attitude about things sometimes....

*shrugs* I don't get it either. We like animals; that's a common thread
for furfen and mundane alike.

> >> Now with some words to play with we can try for some names.
> >>
> >> QuillFur's?
> >> PeltDown Scale?
> >> Plume Fur Scale? (gets wierd with the other definitions of 'scale')
> >
> >How about Up Scale Furs?
>
> That would work for me if it was more prints, figurines, sculpture,
> and jewelry than plushies and tee shirts. (Plushies made from glitzy
> fabrics might make it though.)

Well, it would mean staying away from the lower-range stuffies, at
least. Do more of the hand-done T-Shirts and embroidered shirts, the
realistic animals (hey, stuffies can run into the hundreds of dollars
easy!) and the craftsworks. I'd actually stay away from too many prints
(limited editions, mostly) as you can find most of them just about
anywhere.

> >Things like "The Sign of the Blushing Dragon" are also available...
> >again, I'm not against the non-furred folk, but I'm also trying for a
> >wide audience. "Dragon" in a name more often denotes someone in the SCA
> >or wicca (having seen the fights over names in Orange County), so I'm
> >likely to be wary of that unless I lean more into the animal-totem and
> >heraldry stuff.
> And dragon takes another association near asian communities as well.

Errr... yea.

> The *New* Fur Trade?

It's sick pun, but true... ;p

ermine

Lisa Jennings

unread,
Sep 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/11/97
to

Paul Bennett wrote:

>
> In article <3418055F.6A79@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com>, Lisa Jennings <Allthis@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com> writes:
> >
> > Tephra wrote:
> > > Your posts were fine. I was just remarking on the relative lack of
> > > plushies of the scalie persuasions. The dragon plushies I do find are
> > > too cartoony for my taste.
> >
> > Oh, agreed! Just _try_ finding a gryphon plushie!
>
> For your information
>
> While by no means a plushie, I have seen some superb(and quite lovely)
> dragon statuary in a local store. Seems to me somewhere I have also
> seen gryphons. They were by no means toony. The price? Well...
> Let's just say they weren't cheap. I am afraid I do not recall who
> they were made by.

You are almost certainly referreing to the Peña statuary, which while I
enjoy it greatly I find is way too prevalent out there.... If I could
locate some of their discontinued product (like the Flion), I'd sell
_that_, but not what every Game Store and Collectables house has up on
their glass shelves.

No, I want a gryphon PLUSHIE! :3 I have seen gargoyle plushies (and not
the ones from Hunchback) available through various statuary and
'medieval' sources, but Dragons and Gryphons and other mythical beasts
aside from Unicorns are just about impossible to find in plushy form. I
may have to resort to pulling out my old patterns and _making_ them...
one more task in my bin.

> Other comments. Even with a home based company such as this, you will
> still need to deal with inventory and it's required floor space. Also,
> in some states you are taxed on unsold inventory at the end of each year.

Yes, that's part of what I was referring to as to the 'other costs'....
as a start up company, you can't _afford_ too much inventory, both for
storage and cost reasons.

> I looked into silkscreening some "T"'s once. OUCH!

Been there, done that. I almost got the 4-screen floor model once,
too... *sigh*
It's not as bad as it used to be, actually... technology advances both
in the industry and at home have forced the prices down. But you still
need to pay set-up charges, screen charges, per color charges, and per
shirt charges. The last time I did a small run, I managed to get the
final per-shirt price down to $23, but it was for sweatshirts which are
inherently more expensive.

> I would also suggest epoxy castings such as have been available and pewter
> minatures.

Already noted. But again, part of the Selling Point of this store is to
provide items that are _not_ easy to come by, so providing the usual
Pewter miniatures and Epoxy Castings won't be a wise financial move...
they are _everywhere_. Find the most-asked for and the more difficult to
locate stuff. The Omaha resin casting, for example, would be good....
likewise the Tank Police garage kits.

Basic business-sense says Find a Need and provide a solution to fulfill
that need. The Nitch Market also has words of wisdom: Provide a service
or products that people can't get anywhere else without exorbitant costs
(hence the popularity of Import Shops). If I buy everything that a Comic
Shop buys without the Comics, I'm likely to fail because that comic shop
already has a steady clientele and I'm unlikely to match or beat their
prices... have _some_ of their stock intermingled with a lot of unique
stuff, and the consumer gets a choice. They might still go to the Comic
Shop, but if they find something desireable at your store, they are more
likely to pick up that other item that the Comic Store also happens to
carry.

ermine

Chocoholic SCA'er Addict

unread,
Sep 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/11/97
to

Tephra (tep...@bicnet.net) wrote:
: >: I've not much to add to the ideas since all the good ones have been

: >: said. (Plushies! Dragon and scalie plushies! *ahem*)
: >
: >Yeay, plushies!! :) Nothing better than a plushie to snuggle up to.
:
: Well... and SO maybe. ;>

True enough. Only problem is my SO's are aways away from me so I need
a plushie to snuggle up to. :)

: ><snip!>


: >: And if you carry larger sized tee shirts with 'cute animals saying
: >: cool slogans' you can get that nice cross over to people like me that
: >: would *love* to have some really cool shirts with art and slogans but
: >: can't find my size. The plus size market has a lot of 'weight.'
: >: (Don't bother flaming me for a percieved fat bashing pun, I'm fat
: >: *and* I'm a dragon that flames back.)
: ><snip!>
: >
: >Another good idea. I'm not the thinnest of people myself and would love to
: >have some of the cut animals T-shirts in a larger size. I think the cute
: >animal t-shirts would also sell welll to a mainstream audience as well.
:
: Cute animal t-shirts sell very well in the mainstream, and low and
: behold, they're still 'furry' merchandise! *grin*

Actually, I just saw a T-shirt last night in a catalog that was cute.
A picture of two cats, one dressed as a psychic with the other cat saying,
"This cat-psychic changed all nine of my lives!". There was a little
slogan beneath them both saying, "Call 1-800-MEOW-NOW". :)

<snip!):
: Hiyas Catchclaw! You know it occured to me the other day I might have


: met you before AAC, at CF8. :) Going to CF9?

I'm going to try my bestest to make CF9, nothing like furry fun in the
California sun. BTW, anyone heard how the hotel reservations for CF9
are going yet ?

Paul Bennett

unread,
Sep 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/11/97
to

In article <3418055F.6A79@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com>, Lisa Jennings <Allthis@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com> writes:
>

> Tephra wrote:
> > Your posts were fine. I was just remarking on the relative lack of
> > plushies of the scalie persuasions. The dragon plushies I do find are
> > too cartoony for my taste.
>
> Oh, agreed! Just _try_ finding a gryphon plushie!

For your information

While by no means a plushie, I have seen some superb(and quite lovely)
dragon statuary in a local store. Seems to me somewhere I have also
seen gryphons. They were by no means toony. The price? Well...
Let's just say they weren't cheap. I am afraid I do not recall who
they were made by.

Other comments. Even with a home based company such as this, you will


still need to deal with inventory and it's required floor space. Also,
in some states you are taxed on unsold inventory at the end of each year.

I looked into silkscreening some "T"'s once. OUCH!

I would also suggest epoxy castings such as have been available and pewter
minatures.

Paul Bennett

William Earl Haskell

unread,
Sep 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/11/97
to

Chocoholic SCA'er Addict wrote:
>
> I'm going to try my bestest to make CF9, nothing like furry fun in the
> California sun. BTW, anyone heard how the hotel reservations for CF9
> are going yet ?

Better than for CF8, I hope! There was something about this in the last
In-Fur-Nation. I called in my reservation last October, only to find,
about a week before CF8 that they had lost it somewhere - luckily I got
a good room anyhow, but still...

Tephra

unread,
Sep 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/12/97
to

>> Your posts were fine. I was just remarking on the relative lack of
>> plushies of the scalie persuasions. The dragon plushies I do find are
>> too cartoony for my taste.
>
>Oh, agreed! Just _try_ finding a gryphon plushie!

Ack! I've *never* seen one. Makes me want to hunt up patterns (or
sit myself down and *draft* a pattern) for dragons and other mythicals
and sew up a bunch. That would be something different, sewing small
pieces rather than the huge pieces for my garb.

>> How does a catalog stnd up to a store front in cost comparison? At
>> least a catalog is not dependent on local the way a store front does.
>> And I certainly wouldn't do either without some market research, part
>> of which would definitely be an online catalog that I monitored for
>> the amount of hits it got.
>
>Store fronts versus catalogs are no comparison...
>
>What you got to look at is the whole picture of starting an _new
>business_, which is more than just a store front or catalog _or_
>website. You still need to set up the licences and tax certificates, the
>DBA, the various other forms to federal, state, county, and municipal
>agencies, the 5-Year Plan, the contacts to distributors for your
>inventory, the credit lines to _buy_ the inventory.... it all adds up.
>A home-based business solves the problem of the costs of a real property
>(leasing, taxes, insurance, non-stock equipement, etc.), but you still
>must plan for spending a lot of money on just getting your initial
>inventory and all the permits to sell them.

I wouldn't know, my family's business was well established before I
was born. (And has folded due to heath problems after several decades
of existance.)

>A color catalog is a major investment... a black-and-white catalog with
>a color cover and possibly a color insert is more cost-effective. When I
>talk about the WebStore, I'm making a big shortcut... whether or not it
>gets _lots_ of hits, you only need a few from the right places to start
>out. Using the webstore as a testing ground for you Catalog lets you do
>a lot of pre-press footwork without the costs of printing proofs... when
>you got it the way you like and the way that your customers respond best
>to, _then_ you can get out the bids for printing it.

Makes sense to me. Though I do wonder who around here has the capital
and storage space. I sure as heck don't. (My hoard isn't worth much
in modern society, they don't value books like they used to....)

>> I'm large and tall, two problems to deal with. Tees to 4X is
>> definitely a Good Thing (tm) in my book!
>
>Oh, absolutely... I've got too many Large Friends that I'd want to
>outfit to _not_ add a Plus Sizes range.

I wish those cute watches with cats on the face and a mouse on the
second had (and the assorted variations) came with longer bands.
Heck, I wish they made watchbands in general longer. I wear men's
gloves (XL) and men's watches and even most of those are too small.
Is there no one else that has a 8.5" wrist?

I'm tired of all the neat stuff being too small and after a decade of
trying to get *myself* smaller I've pretty much determined it ain't
gonna happen.

>> And it gets around that sub thread about keeping the store 'pure
>> furry.' I really do wonder why this fandom has such an all or nothing
>> attitude about things sometimes....
>
>*shrugs* I don't get it either. We like animals; that's a common thread
>for furfen and mundane alike.

Yay! Someone else that doesn't get it!

>> >How about Up Scale Furs?
>>
>> That would work for me if it was more prints, figurines, sculpture,
>> and jewelry than plushies and tee shirts. (Plushies made from glitzy
>> fabrics might make it though.)
>
>Well, it would mean staying away from the lower-range stuffies, at
>least. Do more of the hand-done T-Shirts and embroidered shirts, the
>realistic animals (hey, stuffies can run into the hundreds of dollars
>easy!) and the craftsworks. I'd actually stay away from too many prints
>(limited editions, mostly) as you can find most of them just about
>anywhere.

*nods* Good plushies are a bit pricey, as evidenced by what I paid
for my wolf over here. Never thought I'd pay $50 for a plushy.

>> The *New* Fur Trade?
>
>It's sick pun, but true... ;p

Sick puns.... Someone help me I'm spending too much time with my
mate! *grin*

>ermine

Jack Furlong - HillBluffer

unread,
Sep 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/12/97
to

In article <5v9ef1$mcc$1...@thunder.cise.ufl.edu>, ben...@cise.ufl.edu (Paul Bennett) wrote:
>
>In article <3418055F.6A79@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com>, Lisa Jennings
> <Allthis@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com> writes:

>> Oh, agreed! Just _try_ finding a gryphon plushie!

>While by no means a plushie, I have seen some superb(and quite lovely)

>dragon statuary in a local store. Seems to me somewhere I have also
>seen gryphons. They were by no means toony. The price? Well...
>Let's just say they weren't cheap. I am afraid I do not recall who
>they were made by.

"Windstone Collections" makes an excellent Gryphon.
I've got several of their dragon statues, and I'm VERY pleased with them.

Jack Furlong - Artist / MUCKer

Email: http://www.netcom.com/~jfurlong/contact.html

Wanderer

unread,
Sep 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/14/97
to


Lisa Jennings <Allthis@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com> wrote in article
<3418055F.6A79@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com>...
> Tephra wrote:
(snip)

If we're going to be unusual, why not consider the following?

The Utter East

Aslan's Den

Furkin

Furnice

AlterNature

Fur Pete's Sake!

AniMall

Specie-Fic

Just Fur You

Loch Nice

AnThrone

Beast Wishes

The Very Beast

Furrest Base

Enchanted Furrest

The Paws Button

Escape Claws

Tall Tails

TellTails

TattleTails

Re-Tail

Therios Matters

Rebus

Well, that exhausts that backlog ... any others?:)

Yours truly,

The imaginative,

Wanderer****************'Where am I going?I don't quite know.
****************************'What does it matter where people go?
wand...@why.net'*****Down to the woods where the bluebells grow.
wand...@whytel.com'*Anywhere!Anywhere!Idon't know!

Lisa Jennings

unread,
Sep 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/15/97
to

Tephra wrote:
>
> >> Your posts were fine. I was just remarking on the relative lack of
> >> plushies of the scalie persuasions. The dragon plushies I do find are
> >> too cartoony for my taste.
> >
> >Oh, agreed! Just _try_ finding a gryphon plushie!
>
> Ack! I've *never* seen one. Makes me want to hunt up patterns (or
> sit myself down and *draft* a pattern) for dragons and other mythicals
> and sew up a bunch. That would be something different, sewing small
> pieces rather than the huge pieces for my garb.

Same with me... I've managed to pare down my 10+ boxes of fabric,
including that bolt of jade-green cotton velvet (the good stuff).
Say.... maybe I can make realistic dragon plushies with the velvet and
my metallic snake-skin lame' fabrics!

> >A color catalog is a major investment... a black-and-white catalog with
> >a color cover and possibly a color insert is more cost-effective. When I
> >talk about the WebStore, I'm making a big shortcut... whether or not it
> >gets _lots_ of hits, you only need a few from the right places to start
> >out. Using the webstore as a testing ground for you Catalog lets you do
> >a lot of pre-press footwork without the costs of printing proofs... when
> >you got it the way you like and the way that your customers respond best
> >to, _then_ you can get out the bids for printing it.
>

> Makes sense to me. Though I do wonder who around here has the capital
> and storage space. I sure as heck don't. (My hoard isn't worth much
> in modern society, they don't value books like they used to....)

Capital I ain't got... but if I need to, I _do_ have storage space. It'd
give me an excuse to finish that room on the 3rd floor. :3

> I wish those cute watches with cats on the face and a mouse on the
> second had (and the assorted variations) came with longer bands.
> Heck, I wish they made watchbands in general longer. I wear men's
> gloves (XL) and men's watches and even most of those are too small.
> Is there no one else that has a 8.5" wrist?

Again, I got the opposite problem, so I can sympathize from the 'not
average size' problem. On the other hand, trying to find bras has been a
_major_ pain. :q

> >> And it gets around that sub thread about keeping the store 'pure
> >> furry.' I really do wonder why this fandom has such an all or nothing
> >> attitude about things sometimes....
> >
> >*shrugs* I don't get it either. We like animals; that's a common thread
> >for furfen and mundane alike.
>

> Yay! Someone else that doesn't get it!

What can I say? I was raised by a cat....

> >> >How about Up Scale Furs?
> >>
> >> That would work for me if it was more prints, figurines, sculpture,
> >> and jewelry than plushies and tee shirts. (Plushies made from glitzy
> >> fabrics might make it though.)
> >
> >Well, it would mean staying away from the lower-range stuffies, at
> >least. Do more of the hand-done T-Shirts and embroidered shirts, the
> >realistic animals (hey, stuffies can run into the hundreds of dollars
> >easy!) and the craftsworks. I'd actually stay away from too many prints
> >(limited editions, mostly) as you can find most of them just about
> >anywhere.
>

> *nods* Good plushies are a bit pricey, as evidenced by what I paid
> for my wolf over here. Never thought I'd pay $50 for a plushy.

$50? That's nothing.... one of the plushies I'm drooling over runs
$1200!

But I have also seen some remarkably good realistic stuffies running in
the $10-30 range, which is where most non-furfolk buy most of the
stuffed animals.

ermine

Fhaolan

unread,
Sep 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/15/97
to

Lisa Jennings <Allthis@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com> wrote:

>Wanderer wrote:

<snip>

>> Re-Tail

>*ouch* :3

Fhaolan votes for this one. :)

-
Fhaolan the Celtic Wolfie
ark...@istar.ca
New Web Page! --> http://www.minacs.com/Fhaolan

"An nae! I dinn'a have tae eat Dr. Ballards tae have a nice shiny coat!" - Fhaolan

FurryCode: FCW3admrswA++CD+H++M+PR+T+++W-ZSm+ RLCTacw++d+e++f+h*i+psm-


Lisa Jennings

unread,
Sep 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/15/97
to

Jack Furlong - HillBluffer wrote:
>
> In article <5v9ef1$mcc$1...@thunder.cise.ufl.edu>, ben...@cise.ufl.edu (Paul Bennett) wrote:
> >
> >In article <3418055F.6A79@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com>, Lisa Jennings
> > <Allthis@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com> writes:
>
> >> Oh, agreed! Just _try_ finding a gryphon plushie!
>
> >While by no means a plushie, I have seen some superb(and quite lovely)
> >dragon statuary in a local store. Seems to me somewhere I have also
> >seen gryphons. They were by no means toony. The price? Well...
> >Let's just say they weren't cheap. I am afraid I do not recall who
> >they were made by.
>
> "Windstone Collections" makes an excellent Gryphon.
> I've got several of their dragon statues, and I'm VERY pleased with them.

Yes, they do good work. Again, I like them, but I'd have to look
carefully around to make sure I wouldn't pick up stuff that's
_everywhere_... and that's still statuary, not stuffies. :3

ermine

Lisa Jennings

unread,
Sep 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/15/97
to

Wanderer wrote:
>
> Lisa Jennings <Allthis@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com> wrote in article
> <3418055F.6A79@SPAM_is_for_sandwiches.com>...
> > Tephra wrote:
>
> > > >> Plume Fur Scale? (gets wierd with the other definitions of 'scale')
> > > >
> > > >How about Up Scale Furs?
> > > >Things like "The Sign of the Blushing Dragon" are also available...
> > > >again, I'm not against the non-furred folk, but I'm also trying for a
> > > >wide audience. "Dragon" in a name more often denotes someone in the
> SCA
> > > >or wicca (having seen the fights over names in Orange County), so I'm
> > > >likely to be wary of that unless I lean more into the animal-totem and
> > > >heraldry stuff.
> > > And dragon takes another association near asian communities as well.
> >
> > Errr... yea.
> >
> > > The *New* Fur Trade?
> >
> > It's sick pun, but true... ;p
> >
> If we're going to be unusual, why not consider the following?
>
> The Utter East

Hmm... another cow-shop :3

> Aslan's Den

A potential...

> Furkin

I hear Fairefolk giggling...

> Furnice

Oooh... getting warmer.

> AlterNature

Hmm... how about Alter-Native ...?

> Fur Pete's Sake!

Only if I had a 'pete'

> AniMall

Not bad...

> Specie-Fic

*giggle*

> Just Fur You

Another possible furrier-shop name...

> Loch Nice

Hey! That's catchy!

> AnThrone


> Beast Wishes
> The Very Beast

Reminds me of the Clawmarks cards...

> Furrest Base
> Enchanted Furrest
> The Paws Button

a double-entrendre that the mundane may not catch...

> Escape Claws

Hmmmm..... The Sanity Claws ...?

> Tall Tails
> TellTails
> TattleTails

I think I've heard of similar for children's shops.

> Re-Tail

*ouch* :3

> Therios Matters

Great. A lithp.

> Rebus

A Puzzle shop?

> Well, that exhausts that backlog ... any others?:)

Hey, it's an interesting list, certainly.... :3

ermine

Jack Furlong - HillBluffer

unread,
Sep 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/16/97
to

*hrm*
I _did_ have a link to someone who hand-makes mythical type plushies.
but that's on the bookmarks on my home machine, I think... :P

no one in particular

unread,
Sep 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/17/97
to

Paul R. Bennett wrote:
>
> On the order of the "Paws Button",
>
> How about
>
> "Paws 2 Reflect"
>
> or
>
> "Paws 4 Identification"
>
> Paul
> (cringing under desk).
...and is promtply dragged out and beaten
by a squad of angry killjoys holding tuna-flavored
waffles(don't ask).
Sounds like a security problem. Or a
furry security company.

Paul R. Bennett

unread,
Sep 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/18/97
to

Now if it were kipper, I would be eating the fish faster
than they could be hitting me with 'em and chasing them
to get the tins.

Paul
(hoping to inspire:
Grins,
Giggles
Cackles
and
laughs


no one in particular

unread,
Sep 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/18/97
to

You did exactly that. Nothing like a good fish
joke. I'm still picturing a fur chasing after attackers
screaming, "more! I know you have more!"
Thanks for the giggles.

Tephra

unread,
Sep 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/18/97
to

>> Ack! I've *never* seen one. Makes me want to hunt up patterns (or
>> sit myself down and *draft* a pattern) for dragons and other mythicals
>> and sew up a bunch. That would be something different, sewing small
>> pieces rather than the huge pieces for my garb.
>
>Same with me... I've managed to pare down my 10+ boxes of fabric,
>including that bolt of jade-green cotton velvet (the good stuff).

I move to much to have a bit fabric collection. :(

>Say.... maybe I can make realistic dragon plushies with the velvet and
>my metallic snake-skin lame' fabrics!

Oooo! That would be fantastic!

(Back the subject of the post :)


>> Makes sense to me. Though I do wonder who around here has the capital
>> and storage space. I sure as heck don't. (My hoard isn't worth much
>> in modern society, they don't value books like they used to....)
>
>Capital I ain't got... but if I need to, I _do_ have storage space. It'd
>give me an excuse to finish that room on the 3rd floor. :3

*chuckles* Now who has capital.....

>> I wish those cute watches with cats on the face and a mouse on the
>> second had (and the assorted variations) came with longer bands.
>> Heck, I wish they made watchbands in general longer. I wear men's
>> gloves (XL) and men's watches and even most of those are too small.
>> Is there no one else that has a 8.5" wrist?
>
>Again, I got the opposite problem, so I can sympathize from the 'not
>average size' problem. On the other hand, trying to find bras has been a
>_major_ pain. :q

Finding a bra when you're large everwhere *but* the bust. Now if I
was a G or H I might be able to find some easier....

>> >> And it gets around that sub thread about keeping the store 'pure
>> >> furry.' I really do wonder why this fandom has such an all or nothing
>> >> attitude about things sometimes....
>> >
>> >*shrugs* I don't get it either. We like animals; that's a common thread
>> >for furfen and mundane alike.
>>

>> Yay! Someone else that doesn't get it!
>
>What can I say? I was raised by a cat....

I think I was raised in a cooperative effort by several cats, dogs,
and horses with assistance by rabbits, gerbils, and parakeets....

>> >Well, it would mean staying away from the lower-range stuffies, at
>> >least. Do more of the hand-done T-Shirts and embroidered shirts, the
>> >realistic animals (hey, stuffies can run into the hundreds of dollars
>> >easy!) and the craftsworks. I'd actually stay away from too many prints
>> >(limited editions, mostly) as you can find most of them just about
>> >anywhere.
>>

>> *nods* Good plushies are a bit pricey, as evidenced by what I paid
>> for my wolf over here. Never thought I'd pay $50 for a plushy.
>
>$50? That's nothing.... one of the plushies I'm drooling over runs
>$1200!

Well I'm drooling over quite a few four figure price tagged life sized
big cats, but I *bought* the wolf. :)

>But I have also seen some remarkably good realistic stuffies running in
>the $10-30 range, which is where most non-furfolk buy most of the
>stuffed animals.

Yeah, getting people to part with more than about $25 for a good
armful sized plushie is really hard. I only bought the wolf because I
admired the craftsmanship of his construction.