The Vanishing

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Dreamstalker Wolf

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Jul 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/26/99
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Roz Gibson wrote:

> During a recent discussion some friends, the subject of "whatever happened to"
> came up. Maybe someone on this NG can solve some of these mysteries:
>
> What happened to the comic PAKKIN'S LAND? It seemed to have vanished without
> a trace about a year or half a year ago. While I didn't care for the story, the
> art was interesting enough to justify getting it. I would at least like to know
> why it ceased publication.

Yes. I only got Issue #1, but the art was really interesting. Where did it go?

> Nate Patrin used to post here all the time, and put artwork up on Yerf. He
> seems to have vanished from both, although someone told me he was on Furry Muck
> a little while ago, albeit briefly. What happened to him?
>
> Ditto Chuck Melville. Someone told me he's doing the Ti-Pan fanzine, but his
> net presence seems to have vanished, and I haven't seen him at a con in ages.
>
> What about Dwight Decker and the Rhuddiprrt comic?
>
> Is "Steamskunk" still out there?
>
> Is Martin Wagner of HEPCATS fame doing any better pursuing his career as a film
> director than he did as a comics artist? And is the world ready for his vision?
>
> How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?
>
> Why does every traffic lane seem to be going faster than the one I'm in?
>
> pondering
> R. G


Allen Kitchen

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Jul 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/26/99
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Roz Gibson wrote:
>
> During a recent discussion some friends, the subject of "whatever happened to"
> came up. Maybe someone on this NG can solve some of these mysteries:
>
> What happened to the comic PAKKIN'S LAND?

dunno. Got one issue, then it disappeared, like you said. Didn't
have enough issues to understand the story, but liked the bear in it.

> Nate Patrin used to post here all the time, and put artwork up on Yerf.

He's done a few bits on Yerf recently, and has a music column in the
Burned Furs magazine, "Scorch."

>
> Ditto Chuck Melville.

To my knowledge he still works on Tai-pan with Greg Breshears. But
he has not responded to the gift of BBQ ribs recently sent to him.

> What about Dwight Decker and the Rhuddiprrt comic?

No data.



> Is "Steamskunk" still out there?

No data.



> Is Martin Wagner of HEPCATS fame doing any better pursuing his career as a
> film director than he did as a comics artist?

He has, as one person put it, committed professional suicide by his actions.
My view is a bit more nostalgic than most. "Hepcats" was a hip and funny
comic strip, but it made a less than interesting comic book. He should have
stuck to the format that worked. Vision without direction is only daydreaming.

> How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

>>ZOT!!<< (Let's see how many of you get the reference...)



> Why does every traffic lane seem to be going faster than the one I'm in?

It is the same law that governs checkout lanes and teller windows.

Take care.

Allen Kitchen (shockwave)

Dave Huang

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Jul 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/26/99
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In article <B64ECE1EEF38EE79.D2D199A2...@lp.airnews.net>,
Allen Kitchen <all...@blkbox.com> wrote:

>Roz Gibson wrote:
>> How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?
>
>>>ZOT!!<< (Let's see how many of you get the reference...)

O Great Oracle, who is quite spiffy and rather shiny too,
what's the difference between fuzzy logic and furry logic?
--
Name: Dave Huang | Mammal, mammal / their names are called /
INet: kh...@bga.com | they raise a paw / the bat, the cat /
FurryMUCK: Dahan | dolphin and dog / koala bear and hog -- TMBG
Dahan: Hani G Y+C 23 Y++ L+++ W- C++ T++ A+ E+ S++ V++ F- Q+++ P+ B+ PA+ PL++

Allen Kitchen

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Jul 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/26/99
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Dave Huang wrote:
>
> In article <B64ECE1EEF38EE79.D2D199A2...@lp.airnews.net>,
> Allen Kitchen <all...@blkbox.com> wrote:

> >>>ZOT!!<< (Let's see how many of you get the reference...)
>
> O Great Oracle, who is quite spiffy and rather shiny too,
> what's the difference between fuzzy logic and furry logic?

A pair of R's

You should purchase the oracle's newest book, "Groveling for Dummies,"
available whereever paperbacks are sold. But since it is only now going
to press, I'll let it slide. Remember: $17.95 is a small price to pay
to prevent being Zotted. You'll learn proper phrases like:
"Oh great cheese in the sky, whose whiz never turns hard and crusty,"
and more.

But for now, you owe the Oracle a silent E, and a tasteful nude drawing
of Lisa wrapped in fur. (Yes, the usenet Oracle knows who you are...)

Allen Kitchen (who will neither confirm nor deny his involvement there.)
http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/

Roz Gibson

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
to
During a recent discussion some friends, the subject of "whatever happened to"
came up. Maybe someone on this NG can solve some of these mysteries:

What happened to the comic PAKKIN'S LAND? It seemed to have vanished without

a trace about a year or half a year ago. While I didn't care for the story,
the art was interesting enough to justify getting it. I would at least like
to know why it ceased publication.

Nate Patrin used to post here all the time, and put artwork up on Yerf. He

seems to have vanished from both, although someone told me he was on Furry
Muck a little while ago, albeit briefly. What happened to him?

Ditto Chuck Melville. Someone told me he's doing the Ti-Pan fanzine, but his
net presence seems to have vanished, and I haven't seen him at a con in ages.

What about Dwight Decker and the Rhuddiprrt comic?

Is "Steamskunk" still out there?

Is Martin Wagner of HEPCATS fame doing any better pursuing his career as a
film director than he did as a comics artist? And is the world ready for his
vision?

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

Why does every traffic lane seem to be going faster than the one I'm in?

pondering
R. G


Forrest

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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Roz Gibson <nos...@huzzah.org> wrote :

> Ditto Chuck Melville. Someone told me he's doing the Ti-Pan fanzine, but
his
> net presence seems to have vanished, and I haven't seen him at a con in
ages.

CM is not currently online (at all) but is indeed alive and hanging around in
the area of Tai-Pan.


John F. Martin

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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Roz Gibson <nos...@huzzah.org> wrote in article
<7nj446$ovb$1...@raccoon.fur.com>...

<snippo>

> What about Dwight Decker and the Rhuddiprrt comic?

Last I heard, Dwight had lost interest in Rhudiprrt, and was going to do other
things. *What* other things, I haven't a clue.


--
--John F. Martin
Furry...@hotmail.com

Chief Acolyte of the Fanfic Revolution
http://come.to/hauthor

The Night Owl Page (update coming RSN...)
http://earth.vol.com/~fsaint/home.html

Cairyn

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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> > What about Dwight Decker and the Rhuddiprrt comic?
>
> Last I heard, Dwight had lost interest in Rhudiprrt, and was going to do
other
> things. *What* other things, I haven't a clue.
>

Oh, that's great. Lost interest. After nine issues, all we get is another
furry comic with an ongoing storyline that never wraps up and is
cancelled.

Why don't people stick to one-issue-stories when they have to start
a new series? Or at least, draw ALL issues and gather the money to publish
them ALL monthly (as a miniseries)!

I'm getting increasingly tired with chopped stories. Someone please
tell me why I bother buying furry comics at all. It's just like watching a
movie, and after the first half the theater owner switches off the projector
because he got tired of working...

Bah!

Pakkins' Land (which I was collecting too and which was halfway through the
"Forgotten Dreams" storyline) is only one of many.

BTW, what happened to Milikardo Knights? My last issue was #3.
What happened to Greener Pastures? My last issue was #7.
What happened to Hepcats... oh, I see. Yeah, heard about it. Feels
like cheating.
What happened to Filthy Animals?
What happened to Tales of the Fehnnik II?

And so on, and so on...

Believe me, if I ever do my comic, it will be a four-issue-miniseries,
all drawn in advance, published monthly, and by gosh, it WILL be
finished... (so he said and got run over by a truck...)

-- Cairyn --


Doodles

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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Roz Gibson wrote:

> During a recent discussion some friends, the subject of "whatever happened to"
> came up. Maybe someone on this NG can solve some of these mysteries:
>
> What happened to the comic PAKKIN'S LAND? It seemed to have vanished without a
> trace about a year or half a year ago. While I didn't care for the story,
> the art was interesting enough to justify getting it. I would at least like
> to know why it ceased publication.

I've never heard of the publication until now.

> Is "Steamskunk" still out there?

As I once replied when asked the same thing about Pauly Shore: I don't know, I
don't _want_ to know and neither do you. =};-3

> How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

Three and a half cords. But everyone's using Duraflame now so it's a moot point.

> Why does every traffic lane seem to be going faster than the one I'm in?

It's a secret cabal organized by one Sebastian Q Dimswitty of Turlock, CA, who has
mistaken you for _Debbie_ Gibson and is trying to get back at her for all those
years of horrible music.

> pondering
> R. G

Nattering and grommishing,
Unca Spooge


Dalia

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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>
> How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck
could chuck wood. :)


David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 05:35:35 -0700, Doodles <doo...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Roz Gibson wrote:

>> What happened to the comic PAKKIN'S LAND?

On that note does anyone have info on a comic book called "Tech High"
and a furry/anime artist called "Heaather `Minmie' Vaughn"?

--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://www.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.

Matthew Milam

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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Allen Kitchen wrote in message ...

>
>
>
>> Is Martin Wagner of HEPCATS fame doing any better pursuing his career as
a
>> film director than he did as a comics artist?
>
>He has, as one person put it, committed professional suicide by his
actions.

I suspect he has. But creative people aren't exactly logical, so one can't
fault him for acting the way he did. Hell, in years to come we may all learn
the secret reason he left furry fandom, we may not even be surprised if his
reason is the same as everyone elses. Because we bitch too much.

>My view is a bit more nostalgic than most. "Hepcats" was a hip and funny
>comic strip, but it made a less than interesting comic book. He should
have
>stuck to the format that worked. Vision without direction is only
daydreaming.
>

They said the same for James Cameron. Guess were wrong, huh.

Matthew Milam
mmi...@interlync.com

Brian Sutton

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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Tech High has three issues that I know of. It seemed to be coming out on an
annual basis at Project A-kon though that is probably just my prospective on
it. I didn't see it or her at the last show but I was very busy running my
table this year. More info than that will require my digging out the issues.
Brian Sutton
" Because I REALLY care about your happiness..."

Visit my website @ http://members.xoom.com/HJGpage/
for deals on Furry art & comics

tamar_...@my-deja.com

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
to
> Roz Gibson wrote:
> >
> > During a recent discussion some friends, the subject of "whatever
happened to"
> > came up. Maybe someone on this NG can solve some of these
mysteries:
> >
> > What happened to the comic PAKKIN'S LAND?
>
> dunno. Got one issue, then it disappeared, like you said. Didn't
> have enough issues to understand the story, but liked the bear in it.
>
> > Nate Patrin used to post here all the time, and put artwork up on
Yerf.
>
> He's done a few bits on Yerf recently, and has a music column in the
> Burned Furs magazine, "Scorch."
>
> >
> > Ditto Chuck Melville.
>
> To my knowledge he still works on Tai-pan with Greg Breshears. But
> he has not responded to the gift of BBQ ribs recently sent to him.
>
> > What about Dwight Decker and the Rhuddiprrt comic?
>
> No data.

>
> > Is "Steamskunk" still out there?
>
> No data.

>
> > Is Martin Wagner of HEPCATS fame doing any better pursuing his
career as a
> > film director than he did as a comics artist?
>
> He has, as one person put it, committed professional suicide by his
actions.
> My view is a bit more nostalgic than most. "Hepcats" was a hip and
funny
> comic strip, but it made a less than interesting comic book. He
should have
> stuck to the format that worked. Vision without direction is only
daydreaming.
>
> > How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck
wood?
>
> >>ZOT!!<< (Let's see how many of you get the reference...)
>
> > Why does every traffic lane seem to be going faster than the one I'm
in?
>
> It is the same law that governs checkout lanes and teller windows.
>
> Take care.
>
> Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
>

Anybody know anything about Space Wolf. Rumor had it a while ago that
Dan Flavhive (sorry, I know I misspelled it) was talking to now dead
Vision for the series. So what's up with that? I loved it and along
with Albedo was my driving force for doing the anthro comic thing.

BTW Shockwave, did you get the pic?
--
Ebony Leopard
http://www.yerf.com/howashaw
http://www.redpanda.com/howart


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

J.M.L.

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
to
Roz Gibson (nos...@huzzah.org) wrote:
: Nate Patrin used to post here all the time, and put artwork up on Yerf. He
: seems to have vanished from both, although someone told me he was on Furry
: Muck a little while ago, albeit briefly. What happened to him?

How peculiar.

I talk to Nate all the time. I'll have to tell him he's missing.
Maybe he'll go on a walkabout and find himself. =D

See ya!

--
-- "Happiness is a deaf wolf".
http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch/hal/HAL/Talk.phtml

Ucalegon

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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In article <7nk8q9$gfg$1...@mow.physik.uni-bremen.de>, "Cairyn"
<cai...@tigress.com> writes:

>Believe me, if I ever do my comic, it will be a four-issue-miniseries,
>all drawn in advance, published monthly, and by gosh, it WILL be
>finished... (so he said and got run over by a truck...)

Yeah, I'm *so* sure. Obviously none of the people drawing
the comics you listed *wanted* to truncate their stories, but
given the marginality of most furry comics and the lengths of
the story lines of several of them, there was no way they could
personally afford to do the whole run in advance, let alone
publish it regardless of losses due to low sales. So the
choice was between what we got or nothing, and I prefer
what we got. I have no doubt that Filthy Animals and Tales
of the Fehnnik II will ultimately be completed; Greener
Pastures doesn't strike me as something that was headed to
a fixed ending, so I don't see the problem (and there may be
further issues available directly from Australia); and Pakkins'
Land at least gave you two completed story arcs before
economics killed it. Incomplete stories are a fact of life in
all sorts of indy comics, not just furry; it's an inevitable
consequence of liking something that .001% of the
populace likes. So quitcherbeefin.

But *damn*, I wish we could have gotten all of *Eye of Mongombo*.

Acag, Treesong

Acag, Treesong (ucal...@aol.com)

David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:16:38 -0500, Matthew Milam <mmi...@interlync.com> wrote:

[...]

> we may not even be surprised if his
>reason is the same as everyone elses. Because we bitch too much.

[nods sagely]

We also vixen too much.

Cairyn

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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Ucalegon <ucal...@aol.com> wrote:
> <cai...@tigress.com> writes:
>
> >Believe me, if I ever do my comic, it will be a four-issue-miniseries,
> >all drawn in advance, published monthly, and by gosh, it WILL be
> >finished... (so he said and got run over by a truck...)

> Yeah, I'm *so* sure. Obviously none of the people drawing
> the comics you listed *wanted* to truncate their stories, but
> given the marginality of most furry comics and the lengths of
> the story lines of several of them, there was no way they could
> personally afford to do the whole run in advance, let alone
> publish it regardless of losses due to low sales.

Actually, since my drawing skills are still far from good enough, this is
hypothetical anyway... But I don't make a living with Furry, and I don't
expect to, so...
(So, you don't think I can do it, huh? Well, that's a reason for
me to do it anyway... just wait ten years more... ;-)

> So the choice was between what we got or nothing, and I prefer
> what we got. I have no doubt that Filthy Animals and Tales
> of the Fehnnik II will ultimately be completed

It was a wise choice of Radio Comix to prefer limited series and
NOT to do unlimited stuff as usual. This way, there's a much better
chance that we see the end of it. Hooray to Elin & Co.!

> Greener
> Pastures doesn't strike me as something that was headed to
> a fixed ending, so I don't see the problem

A story that's not heading towards anything (not necessarily a
fixed ending; a climax or a turning point will do...) is absolutely
pointless. Up to the Vanishing, Greener Pastures had at least
each issue complete with a single confrontation of The Bull with
the human world in a certain aspect; however, the big picture was
lacking... I think the creators could have laid out the future of the
series in a nice way; it was at least an interesting title.
The "problem" (your choice of words) is that there WAS no
wrapup at all. I don't complain too much about the (apparent)
cancellation; in a way the published issues still work. It just
joins a long list of titles with the same fate.

> Pakkins'
> Land at least gave you two completed story arcs before
> economics killed it.

That is the title I'm most angry about because I had high hopes
about it. The "completed" story arcs are by no means actually
complete, by the way; the story is ongoing.

> Incomplete stories are a fact of life in
> all sorts of indy comics, not just furry;
> it's an inevitable
> consequence of liking something that .001% of the
> populace likes.

A quick look at the shelf...
Finder just completed issue 14 and the first story arc. Have not heard
about any cancellation.
Galaxion has been delayed, admittedly, but not cancelled.
Thieves&Kings is at 27 (or something) issues and three paperbacks,
and it's self-published.
Usagi Yojimbo has survived several changes of publishers and is still
going strong.

Inevitable? No. The interrupted storylines could easily be
remedied by presenting ONE story in ONE issue. Every
tale could be complete, with the grand total presenting or hinting
at a larger picture. Once the title soars, it could do longer arcs.
Short tales have several advantages: they provide a point for
new readers to hop on EVERY issue. They don't leave too many
loose ends when a cancellation becomes necessary. (I won't go
too deeply into the theme here, if you are interested, we can discuss
it later.)

The funny thing is that every new furry comic tries to blast its way
into the market with a dozen-issue-intro and forty main characters.
(One exception comes to mind: Zaibatsu Tears. And even that has
a multi-issue arc going on right now.) What about a slow start, and
building the tale from there?

> So quitcherbeefin.

Nope, I won't. An annoyance does not become less of an annoyance
if you keep quiet about it.

And I wouldn't bitch about it if the titles weren't so good. I don't give
sh*t about other cancellations...
but I LIKED Rhudiprrt (and the others, and a lot titles more...)!!!!

> But *damn*, I wish we could have gotten all of *Eye of Mongombo*.

See?

> Acag, Treesong

-- Cairyn --


Cerulean

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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Quoth Cairyn:

>The funny thing is that every new furry comic tries to blast its way
>into the market with a dozen-issue-intro and forty main characters.
>(One exception comes to mind: Zaibatsu Tears. And even that has
>a multi-issue arc going on right now.) What about a slow start, and
>building the tale from there?

Another exception: Red Shetland. The first story was two issues, and
the second story was one. Now it's off on the longer plots, which it
can do because it's popular enough to survive. (It's kind of a shame,
though, because I don't think every comedy with characters deep enough
to care about should have to turn so serious. I _almost_ kept watching
Moonlighting to the very end, but I just couldn't make it.)

--
___vvz /( Absurd Notions is on! -> http://cerulean.st/absurdnotions/
<__,` Z / ( | Cerulean= | DC.D/? f s+ h++ Gm CB^P a $ d+++ l* g- e! i
`~~~) )Z) ( | Kevin Pease | FDDmp4adwsA+++$C+D+HM+P-RT+++WZSm#
/ (7 ( o6u!oq--c'aJay+ hpoqhue aJay+ s! `u!>s ay+ heme 7aad noh jI

Cerulean

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Jul 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/27/99
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Quoth Cairyn:

>I'm getting increasingly tired with chopped stories. Someone please
>tell me why I bother buying furry comics at all. It's just like watching a
>movie, and after the first half the theater owner switches off the projector
>because he got tired of working...

I don't buy many furry comics. What I keep hearing from those who do
is "Well, I don't care for the story much, but the art is beautiful."
So it seems that most people are buying them to look at the pretty
pictures, and they don't care what happens with the story.
I have to care about the content to want something enough to buy it,
but that's just me.

Cairyn

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Jul 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/28/99
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Cerulean <kevin...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Quoth Cairyn:
>
> >I'm getting increasingly tired with chopped stories. Someone please
> >tell me why I bother buying furry comics at all. It's just like watching
a
> >movie, and after the first half the theater owner switches off the
projector
> >because he got tired of working...
>
> I don't buy many furry comics. What I keep hearing from those who do
> is "Well, I don't care for the story much, but the art is beautiful."
> So it seems that most people are buying them to look at the pretty
> pictures, and they don't care what happens with the story.
> I have to care about the content to want something enough to buy it,
> but that's just me.

Funny, I always thought it was the other way round. Many furry comics
I buy (and I buy almost everything there is) don't have that great art. Take
the new *Ernor*, for example; I think it has potential, but the art is...
well...
not very dynamic. Not bad, but definitely not enough to justify buying for
art alone. The story looks nice, though.

Or, since it was mentioned, Greener Pastures. I like the story. The art...
oh well...

Or the late Walter Kitty. I love the tale. The art is not my reason of
buying it. (Or, meanwhile, downloading.)

There are very few comics I'd buy for art if I thought the story was sh*t.
Even Milikardo Knights, which started out with *excellent* art, was in
its third issue ... ummm... a bit disappointing (the artists had changed).
Or the last issue of Rhudiprrt, which also didn't live up to my
expectations although the artist was the same (another inker)...

Let's see, what great *art* comics do we have...

Havoc INC. Has also great storytelling. At first, I thought it was just
another
odd pair story, with a lot of sillyness thrown in. But the fourth issue ends
on
a tragic note, which nicely counterbalances the general humor. I recommend
it.

Red Shetland. The first issues don't really match the current more somber
storyline (I like the newer issues better). However, both art and stories
are
great.

Associated Student Bodies. Art & story is nice. One of the best furry
titles, currently. Though, the "gay" theme may not be everyone's taste.
Also much recommended (and popular!)

Hopster's Tracks. I dunno if I would buy it for the art alone since the
cartoony
theme doesn't really excite me, but it is clean and professional as any
comic should be. We could argue about the story; but hey, it's a cartoon.

Tales of the Fehnnik. Scotty Arsenaults art is great. But the story
matches it; I like it anyhow.

Tellos. Great art. Nice fantasy story (I can't say much about it, because
it's
only at ish #2, and it has only 1 furry character anyway.)

Usagi Yojimbo. Nuff said.

Blacklight. Wooo.
(I don't like Jack Salem as a person, but everyone's favorite serial
killer/rapist is certainly a fascinating... uh... monster.)

And there are a few more on the list. But they didn't just linger in
my mind because of the art; the story is equally present. Without a
story, none of these comics would succeed.

Would Katmandu have survived the loss of Terrie Smith as artist
if people would buy it for art alone?

Would Shanda the Panda survive its permanently changing artist
roster?

Nope. The story IS an important part of the book. And while
there are some duds in the bunch, I think furry comics do
nicely story-wise. (I don't include anthology stories here;
make up your own mind about it.)

(The best stuff is generated, of course, by matching great
art and storytelling in a way that both are highlighted.)

I don't know the people who said what you quoted, but if
they really are out for just the art, why bother with comics at all?
There are portfolios. There are calendars. There are lots
and lots of great pinups on the web. And what
single comics panel can stand the comparison to a page of
pinup, which is drawn in a bigger format, maybe in color even,
by the same artist?
Y'know what I think? They are talking about Genus and
Wild Kingdom and similar titles. "I only buy it for the art. (Drool)"
"I just want to observe the artist's technique! (Where do I have
my KY?)" "I never actually read a story! (Now, what happened
to the virgin vixen in the captivity of the wild Dog tribe again...)"

I think there's a lot that could be improved in furry comics,
but the storytelling is okay. If only we'd get the end of the
stories!

-- Cairyn --


Ucalegon

unread,
Jul 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/28/99
to
In article <7nl7ol$qh5$1...@mow.physik.uni-bremen.de>, "Cairyn"
<cai...@tigress.com> writes:

>A quick look at the shelf...
>Finder just completed issue 14 and the first story arc. Have not heard
>about any cancellation.

> [...]


>
>Inevitable? No. The interrupted storylines could easily be
>remedied by presenting ONE story in ONE issue.

Cancellation is of course not inevitable. That there will be many
cancellations in any reasonable-sized not-terribly-popular field
*is* inevitable, given the current market.

Not all stories are suitable to breaking into 24-page pieces,
and asking that every story be started that way is asking for
inferior stories. I note that of the four uncancelled comics you
mention, three (*Finder*, *Galaxion*, *Thieves & Kings*) have
had an ongoing story from the start. Maybe *Finder* #1 stood
on its own kinda sorta, but even it would have left a roomful
of loose ends if she'd stopped there. And I believe that only
*Galaxion*, because it started as a minicomic, had much
ready before it started publishing.

The main reason that *Finder*, *Thieves&Kings*, and *Usagi
Yojimbo* have lasted, besides the determination of their
creators, is that they're so damn *good*. I've read that *Finder*
had bad enough sales for long enough that Diamond's
policies called for it to be dropped, but they kept it because
they realized how good it was, expecting that it would find
its audience eventually. You can't expect every indy comic,
or even a majority, to be that good. In fact, you can't expect
many comics of any sort to be as good as *Finder*.

I hope that we'll hear more directly from Dwight Decker about
the future of *Rhudiprrt*, but I can well imagine that the inability
to get issues out regularly (owing to difficulties in finding a
post-Wood artist and the general unprofitability of MU Press,
as well as any Deckerian foibles) could lead to the drying up
of his initial enthusiasm. I've seen SF and fantasy series picked
up by the authors after a couple of early books and a long
hiatus, and the result is often not pretty.

Arved

unread,
Jul 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/28/99
to
Cairyn wrote:
>
> BTW, what happened to <long list snipped>

What happened to Fangs of K'aath?


Arved (inquiring dog wants to know)

Cairyn

unread,
Jul 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/28/99
to
> >A quick look at the shelf...
> >Finder just completed issue 14 and the first story arc. Have not heard
> >about any cancellation.
> > [...]
> >
> >Inevitable? No. The interrupted storylines could easily be
> >remedied by presenting ONE story in ONE issue.
>
> Cancellation is of course not inevitable. That there will be many
> cancellations in any reasonable-sized not-terribly-popular field
> *is* inevitable, given the current market.

Ah, okay, I should perhaps not generalize that much.
I am just currently under the impression that the number of
cancellations in the furry field is significantly higher than the number
of cancellations in the general comics field. I may be wrong,
of course, since I'm watching the furry market more closely
than the rest. But I DO read the cancellation list in Previews.
(Which is by no means complete, I know, since comics that
are not even solicited any more don't show up on it.)

> Not all stories are suitable to breaking into 24-page pieces,
> and asking that every story be started that way is asking for
> inferior stories.

I'm not too sure of that. You can tell the story in a different way.
Doing comics forced you to use that fixed format anyway, and
catching and holding the reader's interest can only been done by
making the format work for you - not work against the format.
You can either tell a story per issue, or have a small climax per
issue, or have a cliffhanger per issue - but you HAVE to adapt
to your medium. You can also go beyond the 24-page-format
and do a bit longer segments (think of Corus, or the SFA anthologies,
which have 48 pages). Okay, the success of the title may be endangered
by the higher price then... but hey, a risk's in everything.

Why do you think Paul Chadwick made such an issue about
"The World Below" being a single story in each issue? The total
still is an ongoing series, but the parts are single tales. (You be the
judge whether it works...)

I won't claim that all stories are ready to be told in fragments
that are complete in itself, but I guess many writers have stories
ready that CAN be told that way. Why not use these? If they are
successful, and your name is really BIG (in the small market segment
that we are) you can always finish the current book and start the
one with the longer tale. That may not suit many ---

--- but hell! If you are doing this for your own soul's peace, you can
do what you want - if you are doing it to get a profit out of a market
share, you have to use what *works*! Even if it means that you can't
do _exactly_ what you intended to.

> I note that of the four uncancelled comics you
> mention, three (*Finder*, *Galaxion*, *Thieves & Kings*) have
> had an ongoing story from the start.

Yes. They are also some of the few indies that I still collect.
Most of my mainstream comics are big timers like Star Wars
and (still) Batman (hey, I won't justify my taste in comics...),
which are not really in danger of being cancelled. Or they are
French comics in German translation, but we don't have enough
in common in these to discuss *them* ;-)

I guess I'm really lucky that none of those titles has been
cancelled. Believe me, it was a difficult decision to collect
any of those. And: NONE of that titles have been picked up by me
from the first issue BECAUSE they were ongoing. I wanted proof
if they would survive. I bought Thieves & Kings only from issue #12,
buying the other issues later on. Finder from issue #6 or #7... well,
you get the point. If they had been cancelled quickly, I would have
had no loss.
However, if everyone thought this way, the initial sales would have
been zero :-(

With furry comics, I tend to buy them from the start because
a. my buy may make a difference
b. it's difficult to get back issues
c. there probably won't be a trade paperback that collects
missing issues.

So, I get my full share of chopped titles... :-(

> The main reason that *Finder*, *Thieves&Kings*, and *Usagi
> Yojimbo* have lasted, besides the determination of their
> creators, is that they're so damn *good*.

Hard to find the likes in Furry. Oh, Usagi IS Furry. Oooh! ;-)

> I've read that *Finder*
> had bad enough sales for long enough that Diamond's
> policies called for it to be dropped, but they kept it because
> they realized how good it was, expecting that it would find
> its audience eventually.

It's good to hear that there are intelligent people at Diamond.

> I hope that we'll hear more directly from Dwight Decker about
> the future of *Rhudiprrt*, but I can well imagine that the inability
> to get issues out regularly (owing to difficulties in finding a
> post-Wood artist and the general unprofitability of MU Press,
> as well as any Deckerian foibles) could lead to the drying up
> of his initial enthusiasm.

If I understood the problem correctly (it had been discussed here
some time ago) it was Decker who didn't deliver the story, so he's
responsible for the delay of issue 9. Not the artist. As I recall,
Rhudiprrt had once been very popular... as for right now, I don't
know. I don't want to blame anyone, it's just a pity. Not only for
the money (although over time, I lose a lot of money in chopped
stories), but for the story as well.

> Acag, Treesong (ucal...@aol.com)

-- Cairyn --


Richard J. Bartrop

unread,
Jul 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/28/99
to Cairyn

On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Cairyn wrote:
>
> The funny thing is that every new furry comic tries to blast its way
> into the market with a dozen-issue-intro and forty main characters.
> (One exception comes to mind: Zaibatsu Tears. And even that has
> a multi-issue arc going on right now.) What about a slow start, and
> building the tale from there?
>

Just as a point of clarification, the current issue, "The Puppet
Warriors", does build on events that happened in the previous issue, but
it is in fact a self-contained story. The upcoming story, "The Mandate
of Heaven" will be serialized over the next four issues of ZT.
Now I admit, I *hate* long, rambing comic epics, largely for the
reasons you've mentioned, but some stories just won't fit in 25-30 pages.
The thought here is that 4 issues will allow a reasonable chance of
seeing the conclusion.

Richard Bartrop
writer/artist, "Zaibatsu Tears"


tamar_...@my-deja.com

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Jul 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/28/99
to
In article <7nlgba$3im$1...@mow.physik.uni-bremen.de>,

I certainly hope so. Though I'll admit it's hard to tell since I
usually get little feedback about the art on the book, but since I've
just matched the issue run of Terrie and people are still buying it
(even after the Vision bad eye sight experience) folks still seem to be
buying it. I hope it's for both the art and story, but who knows.
Either way it's a fun read (especially since I'm the first person other
than Mike and Carole to read each issue) and fun to draw. Issue 18 took
me 20 days to complete (not bad in my book, though it'd have been done
sooner if not for the cons).

Personally I like Tall Tails out side of stuff I'm either working on or
closely associated with. Dalphne's work shows that she does alot of
research into her character designs and the middle age look. And the
story has been very entertaining from the start.

> Would Shanda the Panda survive its permanently changing artist
> roster?

Good example. The story of Shanda is a very driving force, but also
even though there have been many artist changes, the artists that have
taken the spotlight have been some of the top notch anthro comic
artists.

>
> Nope. The story IS an important part of the book. And while
> there are some duds in the bunch, I think furry comics do
> nicely story-wise. (I don't include anthology stories here;
> make up your own mind about it.)
>
> (The best stuff is generated, of course, by matching great
> art and storytelling in a way that both are highlighted.)
>
> I don't know the people who said what you quoted, but if
> they really are out for just the art, why bother with comics at all?
> There are portfolios. There are calendars. There are lots
> and lots of great pinups on the web. And what
> single comics panel can stand the comparison to a page of
> pinup, which is drawn in a bigger format, maybe in color even,
> by the same artist?
> Y'know what I think? They are talking about Genus and
> Wild Kingdom and similar titles. "I only buy it for the art. (Drool)"
> "I just want to observe the artist's technique! (Where do I have
> my KY?)" "I never actually read a story! (Now, what happened
> to the virgin vixen in the captivity of the wild Dog tribe again...)"

Well, I'll say this much, the art of doing a full comic page as to doing
a pin-up is completely different. Some artists are much better at doing
pin-ups than panel to panel art and visa versa. Doing comics, you have
a completely more difficult task than doing pinups. Each panel has to
be just as interesting as the next with smooth flowing action. Some
pull this off with much success others don't. And it's a hard
transition to make going from pin-ups to comics. I personally feel that
my comic work is much better than my pin-up work and I enjoy doing the
comic work more than the pin-up.

> I think there's a lot that could be improved in furry comics,
> but the storytelling is okay. If only we'd get the end of the
> stories!

Now I'll give an Amen to that one. That's the one annoying thing I've
found about furry comics is that you'll get pulled into a really good
story, and then zip. No ending. Now, there may be some really good
reasons why the artist or writer doesn't finish a story but I think it's
bad business to not complete something, somehow. That's why I'm so glad
that SFA has taken over publishing Extinctioners cause I didn't want to
fall into that category. I wanted to at least finish the first story
arch (which is completely drawn and written). You gotta be in it for
the long haul if you go public with a comic. Whether it's a fifty issue
story or 10 pages, you just gotta finish it somehow.

I wish Wagner would have followed that advice cause damn it, I want to
know what happened after Rebecca ran away from home!

rans...@tejiba.extern.ucsd.edu

unread,
Jul 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/29/99
to
In article <7nnf3p$7...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,

"Richard J. Bartrop" <rbar...@calcna.ab.ca> writes:

|> it is in fact a self-contained story. The upcoming story, "The Mandate
|> of Heaven" will be serialized over the next four issues of ZT.

oh, tee-rifick! music to mine eyes.

--
"I want to lick your motherboard
Taste your scuzzy drive
When you feel me power up
That won't be Intel inside"
-"I Don't Want No Cybersex", Mojo Nixon

(Don't bother with the email. Tejiba doesn't have a dns entry and I haven't
figured out sendmale's configuration/aliasing/forwading schtupf yet.)

David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)

unread,
Jul 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/29/99
to
On 27 Jul 1999 18:20:19 GMT, Brian Sutton <bsu77...@aol.com> wrote:
>Tech High has three issues that I know of. It seemed to be coming out on an
>annual basis at Project A-kon though that is probably just my prospective on
>it.

So would anybody have them for public access?

David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)

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Jul 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/29/99
to
On 29 Jul 1999 06:36:44 GMT, David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)

<dfor...@zeta.org.au> wrote:
>On 27 Jul 1999 18:20:19 GMT, Brian Sutton <bsu77...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Tech High has three issues that I know of. It seemed to be coming out on an
>>annual basis at Project A-kon though that is probably just my prospective on
>>it.
>
>So would anybody have them for public access?

What was I on? This sentence doens't make sence.

Ok, is anyone willing to sell me copies.

Cypher

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Jul 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/29/99
to

Dalia <ldin...@bbn.com> wrote in message news:379DBC7E...@bbn.com...

> >
> > How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?
>
> A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a
woodchuck
> could chuck wood. :)
>

Enough of the Monkey Island 2 References.... =)

Cypher

Chuck Melville

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Aug 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/1/99
to

tamar_...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7nlco5$r9l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...


> In article
> <B64ECE1EEF38EE79.D2D199A2...@lp.airnews.net>,
> Allen Kitchen <all...@blkbox.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Roz Gibson wrote:
> > >
> > > During a recent discussion some friends, the subject of "whatever
> happened to"
> > > came up. Maybe someone on this NG can solve some of these
> mysteries:
> > >

> > > Ditto Chuck Melville.
> >
> > To my knowledge he still works on Tai-pan with Greg Breshears. But
> > he has not responded to the gift of BBQ ribs recently sent to him.
> >

I'm still here. I've been away from the internet for several months due
to personal matters, and have been putting my attention to other things;
I'm only just getting back to normal speed again and have resumed my
internet connection. Yeah, I've been writing a lot of Tai-Pan material
mostly in the meanwhile. About the ribs... I have no idea of what you're
talking about. What ribs!?

--

-Chuck Melville-
"Little one, I would like to see -anyone- -- prophet, king or -god- --
persuade a thousand cats to do -anything- at the same time."
-Neil Gaiman; The Sandman: A Dream of a Thousand
Cats


Chuck Melville

unread,
Aug 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/1/99
to
Cairyn <cai...@tigress.com> wrote in article
<7nk8q9$gfg$1...@mow.physik.uni-bremen.de>...

> > > What about Dwight Decker and the Rhuddiprrt comic?
> >
> > Last I heard, Dwight had lost interest in Rhudiprrt, and was going to
do
> other
> > things. *What* other things, I haven't a clue.
> >


Dwight does (last I was aware) translation of American Disney comics for
European publication, which not only took up a good bit of time, but paid
quite well. That contributed to his waning interest in RHUDIPRRT, at least
in part, which seldom broke even on costs. Losing Teri Wood also
contributed to the loss of momentum that the book had; Will Faust did a
fine job of taking up the reins, but it was difficult to replace the energy
that we lost with Teri. But it should be noted that Dwight's scripts were
beginning to slow down at that point as well, just before Teri left.

Actually, as a writer Dwight probably has a number of other irons in the
fire that we don't, nor would, have any notion of. Most working writers
are consistently writing for several publications, whether it be stories or
articles. Dwight was once a frequent contributor to COMICS JOURNAL and
AMAZING HEROES before the latter expired and he began RHUDIPRRT; odds are
that he's busy contributing material to several other publications, and
quite likely they may not all be comics related.

And this brings up another reason why some books die early or are
published infrequently: the creators may be involved in other concerns
beside the book, such as a day job or another more profitable-if-boring
professional job, and personal scheduling becomes a trial and a headache.
A writer and/or an artist has only so much time in which to do his work,
but he still has to weigh doing a comic story (for which he may not get
paid, or paid a minimum sum) against working another job for a solid salary
in order to pay his bills. FANGS OF K'AATH was starting to slow at the end
of its regrettably short run because the artist, Javier Ruiz, wasn't fast
enough to keep it on a bi-monthly schedule, and that was because he worked
a full-time job otherwise. But he still did an incredible job of keeping
up as much as he did, especially for the results he was giving.


> Oh, that's great. Lost interest. After nine issues, all we get is another
> furry comic with an ongoing storyline that never wraps up and is
> cancelled.
>
> Why don't people stick to one-issue-stories when they have to start
> a new series? Or at least, draw ALL issues and gather the money to
publish
> them ALL monthly (as a miniseries)!

Not too practical if what you're talking about is intended as an
open-ended ongoing series. But in principal, you have the right idea. In
fact, we did just that at MU. As editor there, I refused to publish ZU or
FANGS OF K'AATH until I had a certain number of issues inhouse first, nor
would I do miniseries such as CORUS or CYBERKITTIES until they were
complete. (In fact, CYBERKITTIES was locked down for five years until the
last stories were turned in; ask me sometime about the frustrations of
getting CYBERKITTIES completed!). RHUDIPRRT, however, was another story;
that was an ongoing situation when I took over.

Allen Kitchen

unread,
Aug 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/1/99
to

Chuck Melville wrote:

> I'm still here. I've been away from the internet for several months due
> to personal matters, and have been putting my attention to other things;
> I'm only just getting back to normal speed again and have resumed my
> internet connection. Yeah, I've been writing a lot of Tai-Pan material
> mostly in the meanwhile. About the ribs... I have no idea of what you're
> talking about. What ribs!?

*blinks!*

Waddaya mean, what ribs? We took up a collection at AC, drew a
greeting card, and sent you some ribs from Corky's in Memphis, just like
we wanted to do at Memphis last year. I made a special side trip to
Memphis to make sure they sent them... and now you're telling me you never
got your ribs???

Allen (pissed off now) Kitchen

Arved

unread,
Aug 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/1/99
to
Chuck Melville wrote:
>
> FANGS OF K'AATH was starting to slow at the end
> of its regrettably short run because the artist, Javier Ruiz, wasn't fast
> enough to keep it on a bi-monthly schedule, and that was because he worked
> a full-time job otherwise. But he still did an incredible job of keeping
> up as much as he did, especially for the results he was giving.

Just so it's very clear: Does that mean there will be no more issues?


Arved

Chuck Melville

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Aug 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/1/99
to