FILK: Anyone who takes this to heart... deserves to

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Gabriel Gentile

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Feb 4, 2001, 8:20:49 PM2/4/01
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[Sung to the tune of "*ssh*l*" by Dennis Leary]

(SPOKEN)

Folks... I'm gonna sing a song right now. It's a song that I think holds a
great amount of meaning, and helps put things in perspective. It's about me,
it's about you, it's about the fandom... but most of all... it's about me.

(SUNG)

I'm just your average fur, yeah your average fan
I've got a name on the MUCK, I think Gallacci's the man
I like comics and movies about critters that speak
I watch "Animalympics" at least once every week
The cons and the shows and the parties all night
A copy of YARF! And a Smurf's head to bite

But sometimes I ain't got the strength to keep up the facade no more!
No-no! No way! Nuh-uh!
I gotta open my big yap and say just what I think!
Oh yeah! Hell yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

I grab someone's tail and I set it aflame
While all of the hippies start calling me names

I'm a Burned Fur!
He's a Burned Fur!
I'm a Burned Fur!
He's a genuine Burned Fur!

I call Steven Martin a whore to his face
I play Smurfball with Xydexx, using him as FIRST BASE

I'm a Burned Fur!
He's a Burned Fur!
I'm a Burned Fur!
He's a genuine Burned Fur!

I paint Nazi symbols on lifestyler's wors
While lifestylers act like lifestyling jerks

I'm a Burned Fur!
He's a Burned Fur!
I'm a Burned Fur!
He's a genuine Burned Fur!

Maybe what I say is not really true
Maybe I just feel lonely and blue
Maybe I just need a warm hug or two

Pfft! Yeah, RIGHT!

I'm a Burned Fur!
He's a Burned Fur!
I'm a Burned Fur!
He's a genuine Burned Fur!

(SPOKEN... QUICKLY AND LOUDLY)

You know what I'M gonna do? I'm gonna rustle up a bunch of cute little wolf
cubs, Mexican wolf cubs, of course, since they're the most endangered, and
I'm gonna string 'em up by their cute little tails all across my bedroom
foyer, and I'm gonna take a razor blade, and I'm gonna slash 'em all along
their cute little SPINAL COLUMNS so that they BLEED to death, real slowly
and painfully, and I'm gonna catch their blood in a big bucket, and, just to
be mean, PISS in it, and I'm gonna take that mixture of cute Mexican wolf
cub blood and piss and us it to paint "FURGOTS MUST DIE" all across the
entire side of the Sears Tower, and their is not a G*D-DAMNED thing you can
do to STOP me! Y'kow why? Because I DON'T-****ING-CARE-ANY-MORE! One word,
****IN' APATHY, o-KAY?! You go ahead and be tolerant and understanding! You
can have all the tolerance you want! Me? I want a sub-machine gun and a case
of ammo! That's all I want, that's all I need! I'm gonna get ME, BLUMRICH,
MARK FRIED, CHARLA TROTMAN, you say she left the fandom, F*** you, I'm
bringin' her back! I'm gonna-

Hey!

Get each of us a RPG-7 ROCKET LAUNCHER and an SMG, and we're-

HEY!

Gonna KICK DOWN THE DOOR to your "Peace, Love, Empathy, Tolerance, Aura
Readings, Past-Lives and all that other Hippie Furgot B*llsh*t SIG" and
we're gonna lock, we're gonna load, we're gonna take aim and- !

HEY!!!

What?

You know you Burned Furs are real *ssh*l*s!

Oh, gee, what was your FIRST CLUE, Einstein?

(SUNG)

I'm a Burned Fur!
He's a Burned Fur!
I'm a Burned Fur!
He's a genuine Burned Fur!

B-U-R-N-E-D Fur!
Everybody! B-U-R-N-E-D Fur!
Grunt! Grunt! Grunt! Grunt! Grunt!
Grunt! Grumble! Grunt! Grumble! Grunt!

I'm a Burned Fur... and you suck!

FromTheDes...@stukafox.com

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Feb 4, 2001, 8:42:10 PM2/4/01
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Gabriel Gentile <spook...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I'm a Burned Fur... and you suck!

/o~ And you fuck-ing ROCK! ~o/


Thanks, Gabe -- for a God-hating athiest scumbag who's gonna
burn in Hell when he dies, you're alright! ;)

StukaFox

--
The most important question of 2001 will be 'Why aren't you fucking FURIOUS?'

Al Goldman

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Feb 4, 2001, 9:23:28 PM2/4/01
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In article <B6A35C1E.4AA2%spook...@earthlink.net>, Gabriel Gentile
<spook...@earthlink.net> writes:


>You know what I'M gonna do? I'm gonna rustle up a bunch of cute little wolf
>cubs, Mexican wolf cubs, of course, since they're the most endangered, and
>I'm gonna string 'em up by their cute little tails all across my bedroom
>foyer, and I'm gonna take a razor blade, and I'm gonna slash 'em all along
>their cute little SPINAL COLUMNS so that they BLEED to death, real slowly
>and painfully

It's offical. Your now by far the biggest piece of shit on AFF. And no, the
title of this post is not defense.

Al Goldman

Allen Kitchen

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Feb 4, 2001, 9:33:42 PM2/4/01
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It was funny, until that Mexican Wolf part. Just what
sort of sick, demented books do you read, anyway? I've written
some violent crap in my time, but THAT was just plain vicious.

Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/

Bahumat

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Feb 4, 2001, 9:38:19 PM2/4/01
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<cockney accent> You know, there's only one thing holding you back from
bein' a genius. And you know what that is? YER A BLEEDIN' IDIOT!
</cockney accent>

Ta-ta! :D

FYI, if you're going to bother to filk, maybe learn to count syllables?

Bahumat

Mark Freid

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Feb 4, 2001, 9:55:55 PM2/4/01
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Someone pointed this to me.
I am amused. This is funny.
at the same time, I'm a bit bemused as well. Blumrich, Trotman and ME?....

...
....

I'm not a burned fur. I'm not a "fur" of any kind.
while I have been made aware that I am on their "supporters" page, I am not
a part of their group or organization, or whatever. I do not hate furry
fans. I just don't consider myself among them. I still have a good number of
friends who are in the "fandom."

I simply don't care for the unsavory elements of the fandom, and ergo, have
distanced myself from it for the most part (I'm still a proud member of
Huzzah, and upload to Yerf on occasion.)

I would greatly appreciate it if my name wouldn't be thrown around in such a
manner in the future. Thank you.

Mark Freid

"Gabriel Gentile" <spook...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B6A35C1E.4AA2%spook...@earthlink.net...

Loxenfox

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Feb 4, 2001, 9:56:14 PM2/4/01
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Uhmm... wow.


Hangdog

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Feb 4, 2001, 10:02:42 PM2/4/01
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Gabriel Gentile wrote:

> [Sung to the tune of "*ssh*l*" by Dennis Leary]

*sigh* Well, it's a fairly amusing filk, I'll grant you that...

Still, Gabe, haven't we talked to you about unprovoked personal abuse in public
forums?

Haven't we talked to you about mouthing off and claiming you're doing it on
behalf of Burned Fur?

Haven't we given you another chance?

Burned Fur's central message is this: there are limits to tolerance, and they're
called "standards of behavior."

You've violated our standards one too many times. So I think it's time for
Burned Fur to say goodbye to you, at least until you work out whatever issues
you have that prevent you from behaving like a grownup.

Regards,

Hangdog, Burned Fur.

Allen Kitchen

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Feb 4, 2001, 10:19:18 PM2/4/01
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Mark Freid wrote:

> I simply don't care for the unsavory elements of the fandom, and ergo, have
> distanced myself from it for the most part (I'm still a proud member of
> Huzzah, and upload to Yerf on occasion.)

And we love every image you draw, Mark :) Heh, head librarian. You'd think
a dragon would be a bit more wary of a dour, elder drake!

Allen Kitchen

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Feb 4, 2001, 10:28:22 PM2/4/01
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Hangdog wrote:

> You've violated our standards one too many times. So I think it's time for
> Burned Fur to say goodbye to you, at least until you work out whatever issues
> you have that prevent you from behaving like a grownup.
>
> Regards,
>
> Hangdog, Burned Fur.

<sung>

He's no burned fur!
He's no burned fur!
Cause he turned purr,
something im-pure!

heheh

invisicat

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Feb 4, 2001, 9:54:14 PM2/4/01
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spook...@earthlink.net (Gabriel Gentile) wrote in
<B6A35C1E.4AA2%spook...@earthlink.net>:


>I'm a Burned Fur... and you suck!

I don't know what the fuck you *think* you are, but a BurnedFur you aren't.
We will not tolerate that sort of bashing under our banner. Good day and
good riddance.

Regards,

invisi
BurnedFur (and speaking on behalf on the membership of BurnedFur).

Karl Xydexx Jorgensen

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Feb 4, 2001, 11:05:35 PM2/4/01
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invisicat wrote:
> We will not tolerate that sort of bashing under our banner.

While it's encouraging to see that you're trying to distance yourself
from Burned Fur members who've been responsible for driving away your
potential supporters, I'd just like to point out that Hangdog is still a
member of Burned Fur even after he made his homophobic and libelous
remarks about me on AFF back in August, and that really doesn't make you
look good.

Maybe you should do something about that.

Just a suggestion.

--
_________________________________________________
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen / Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC
Anthrofurry Infocenter:
http://www.xydexx.com/anthrofurry

invisicat

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Feb 4, 2001, 11:08:30 PM2/4/01
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xyd...@BEsmartDONTSPAM.net (Karl Xydexx Jorgensen) wrote in
<3A7E268F...@BEsmartDONTSPAM.net>:

>invisicat wrote:
>> We will not tolerate that sort of bashing under our banner.
>
>While it's encouraging to see that you're trying to distance yourself
>from Burned Fur members who've been responsible for driving away your
>potential supporters, I'd just like to point out that Hangdog is still a
>member of Burned Fur even after he made his homophobic and libelous
>remarks about me on AFF back in August, and that really doesn't make you
>look good.
>
>Maybe you should do something about that.
>
>Just a suggestion.
>

O.o

Cute Karl, would you like me to repost all that back and forth we had on
the former BF board which with simple logic I shut you down (to the point
you could only repsond with cute remarks and not to the glarring holes in
your claims)? And to once again point out the basic flaws in your own
slanderous claims that BF was homophobic for a flame which in essence while
a flame was not by any stretch of any sane person's imagination homophobic?
But of course you do... errr I mean don't, for you're far to busy and
having far to much fun with much more "important" issues than to make false
claims or slanderous web pages or waste your time trolling aff (which we
all know you'd never do anyway). Nice try, troll on.

Regards,

Invisi
BF

invisicat

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Feb 4, 2001, 11:11:06 PM2/4/01
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n...@uhhuh.com (invisicat) wrote in <903EE02B8...@209.125.35.22>:

>xyd...@BEsmartDONTSPAM.net (Karl Xydexx Jorgensen) wrote in
><3A7E268F...@BEsmartDONTSPAM.net>:

Oh and a small fyi, all our members our listed on our roster. Gentile, if
you bother to check is no longer listed there and hence, not a member.

invisi
BF

FromTheDes...@stukafox.com

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Feb 4, 2001, 11:52:35 PM2/4/01
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Karl Xydexx Jorgensen <xyd...@besmartdontspam.net> wrote:


> I'd just like to point out that Hangdog is still a
> member of Burned Fur even after he made his homophobic and libelous
> remarks about me on AFF back in August, and that really doesn't make you
> look good.

So sayeth Sentator Karl Jorgensen McCarthy.

Scientology know you're stealing their act, Zippy?

Farlo

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Feb 5, 2001, 12:45:08 AM2/5/01
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Stukafoxie wrote:
>Scientology know you're stealing their act, Zippy?

Say, Stukafoxie, aren't you banned from the Scientology newsgroups?
I will admit that is kinda like being banned from alt.kooks,
oh, wait - you featured prominantly on that group, too.

You can't win for losing, today, it seems.

--

Farlo
Urban fey dragon

m>^_^<m

Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC

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Feb 5, 2001, 12:50:34 AM2/5/01
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invisicat wrote:
>Cute Karl, would you like me to repost all that back and forth we had on
>the former BF board which with simple logic I shut you down
[snip]

You did not shut anything down. All you did was evade the issue and make
excuses for Hangdog's homophobic and libelous comments after he refused to
apologize for them.[1] Obviously, nothing has changed since then.

Like I said, it doesn't make you look good.

But that's not really my problem, is it?

(No need to reply to this thread. I got the answer I was expecting and don't
plan to waste any more bandwidth on this.)

--
_________________________________________________
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen / Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC

Flamewars: The only winning move is not to play.
http://www.xydexx.com/anthrofurry

[1] Yeah, I know... just because -I- admit when
I'm wrong and apologize doesn't mean I
should expect others to have the decency
to do so as well...

Richard Chandler - WA Resident

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Feb 5, 2001, 1:27:33 AM2/5/01
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In article <3A7E268F...@BEsmartDONTSPAM.net>, Karl Xydexx Jorgensen <

xyd...@BEsmartDONTSPAM.net> writes:
> he made his homophobic and libelous remarks about me on AFF back in
> August,

In your opinion.


--
"if Marylin Manson has more of an influence on a kid than the kid's parents
do, then maybe the parents need to look at how they're raising their kids."
-- Charlie Clouser, Keyboardist, Nine Inch Nails.
Spammer Warning: Washington State Law now provides civil penalties for UCE.

Richard Chandler - WA Resident

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Feb 5, 2001, 1:34:56 AM2/5/01
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In article <Xns903F4808xy...@209.125.35.22>,
xyd...@BEsmartDONTSPAM.net (Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC) writes:
> [1] Yeah, I know... just because -I- admit when
> I'm wrong and apologize doesn't mean I should expect others to
> have the decency to do so as well...

One should note that Karl does NOTHING without the intent of eventually using
it as some sort of support for an argument on a.f.f. This is why he describes
them as "More important things to do". Note that he sucks all the grace and
humility out of a simple apology to instead use it as some sort of badge of
honor. "See, I'm FAR more humble than you. I've given myself AWARDS for my
own humility." He used to buy Gallery from me so that he could make arguments
about how open-minded he was. Then one con he deliberately snubbed me, and
what do you know but a few weeks later he was mentioning how he did so in
support of some argument he was making.

You only admitted you were wrong once, and your apology was hardly that. The
whole thing was a ruse, and if you were truly willing to admit when you were
wrong, we'd have an apology from you ever week.

Okay, maybe every two weeks.

invisicat

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Feb 5, 2001, 1:50:17 AM2/5/01
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(Xydexx "please invisi, dont respond.... please? Well if you do I wont
waste my time with reading it. _I've_ better things to do!" Squeakypony,
KSC) wrote in
<Xns903F4808xy...@209.125.35.22>:

>invisicat wrote:
>>Cute Karl, would you like me to repost all that back and forth we had
>>on the former BF board which with simple logic I shut you down
>[snip]


<snipped the same ol' saw, which still is lacking teeth>

Only in your own mind apparently, which seems to be s.o.p. for you.

I'll go into this again then. Because Hd makes a passing remark
(flame) about you visiting bus station glory holes for kicks as a response
(which no one on aff took seriously except for you... perhaps alittle _too_
seriously?) to a flame of your own {a flame for a flame, which takes you
two whole months to respond to and then only in the form of a sock puppet
"Mad Anthony" (complete with webpoles and webpage claiming the whole of BF
is homophobic) and then only on the BF message board} this does not equate
with being homophobic on his part let alone the whole of the BF membership.

To claim otherwise (as you intist on doing) is laughable. In that,

ONE: The BF movement includes gay, lesbian, bi and transgendered amoung
our ranks (myself included in one of those classes) all of whom I've seen
Hd interact and with nothing but respect and kindness.

Two: Making a personal insult directed at one particular individual does
_not_ automaticly infer a insult to a entire group.

Case in point (again this is _not_ a flame, merely a example) If I
were to insult (e.g. flame you) with something akin to the following:

"Karl could you tell your mom the next time she comes over to give me head,
to leave her false teeth home?"

By your logic would this mean:

1. I've some sort of phobia about recieving fellatio?
2. A deep seated fear and loathing of all things maternal?
3. A strong repugnance and abhorrence of dentures?
4. Or finally, I was merely insulting you via a rather repugnant attack
against your mother?

Nothing has changed because you _still_ dont have a case. Yet you
still feel comfortable with trolling and apparently do have more than
enough free time from your busy schedule of "fun" and "more important
things to do" to troll and slander.

As to not shutting you down on the BF board, well I still have copies of
all my posts and your replies, if anyone is interested I'll be happy to let
them judge for themselves.

Regards,

invisi(hoping one day that Karl will actually have something better to do
with his time than perpetuate slanderous lies)cat

BF

Martin Skunk

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Feb 5, 2001, 2:47:38 AM2/5/01
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invisicat wrote:

> I'll go into this again then. Because Hd makes a passing remark
> (flame) about you visiting bus station glory holes for kicks as a response
> (which no one on aff took seriously except for you... perhaps alittle _too_
> seriously?) to a flame of your own {a flame for a flame, which takes you
> two whole months to respond to and then only in the form of a sock puppet
> "Mad Anthony" (complete with webpoles and webpage claiming the whole of BF
> is homophobic) and then only on the BF message board} this does not equate
> with being homophobic on his part let alone the whole of the BF membership.
>

(etc)...

Welcome back to A.F.F., Invisicat. :)

--- Martin Skunk

Bahumat

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Feb 5, 2001, 4:03:13 AM2/5/01
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I agree with your decision, Hangdog, but I must say...

Mind that those words you spoke don't come back and bite your ass one
day. It's quite possible Burned Fur might look upon your behavior with
eventual distaste as well.

Take care, and remeber to check your backdrop before pulling!

Bahumat

ilr

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Feb 5, 2001, 7:51:41 AM2/5/01
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invisicat <n...@uhhuh.com> wrote in message news:903EDB1C6...@209.125.35.22...


See, I told ya he was a punk.
But how can you kick him out? Who made you King BF?
Oh well, whatever it takes to slowly disenfranchise every last
one of you hypocritical bastards from your little two-faced hate group.
-Ilr, counting the days


Gabriel Gentile

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Feb 5, 2001, 8:55:59 AM2/5/01
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I realise this is probably a tick or two late in coming, but...

This filk was in no way meant to be autobiographical.

When I wrote this, about a year ago, my intent was to write a song from the
point of view of the ultimate stereotypical BF with all the negative aspects
of the stereotype blown WAY out of proportion.

When I came across it yesterday, I could not help but laugh at the sheer
ludicrousness of the situation this filk presented.

It seems, however, I was somewhat premature in my assumption that others
were ready to laugh with me.

Mark Freid

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Feb 5, 2001, 9:11:08 AM2/5/01
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Actually, I just went to check the list, and I've found that I'm not on it
after all.

Anyhow, it doesn't matter. I just wanted to make my feelings on the subject
known, and that puts an end to the matter.

MdF

"Baloo Ursidae" <ba...@ursine.dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:uldl59...@ursine.dyndns.org...


> Mark Freid <mfr...@nospam.mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> > I would greatly appreciate it if my name wouldn't be thrown around in
such a
> > manner in the future. Thank you.
>

> Might want to have them remove you from thier list if you don't want to
> get caught in crossfire.
>
> --
> Baloo


Dark Ren

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Feb 5, 2001, 10:21:40 AM2/5/01
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In article <B6A40D1C.4AFD%spook...@earthlink.net>,
Gabriel Gentile <spook...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> It seems, however, I was somewhat premature in my assumption that
others
> were ready to laugh with me.

Some things should remain buried.

--
I see the ghosts of navigators but they are lost
As they sail into the setting sun they'll count the cost
As their skeletons accusing emerge from the sea
The sirens of the rocks they beckon me
Ghost of the Navigator : Iron Maiden

Under Construction - Sins of the Past MUX
http://riftsmux.dhs.org/~sins/

Dark Ren - http://www.deja.com/my/pb.xp?member_name=darkren


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

invisicat

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Feb 5, 2001, 10:55:55 AM2/5/01
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i...@rof.net (ilr) wrote in <95m7k1$566$1...@raccoon.fur.com>:

>
>invisicat <n...@uhhuh.com> wrote in message
>news:903EDB1C6...@209.125.35.22...

>See, I told ya he was a punk.
>But how can you kick him out? Who made you King BF?
>Oh well, whatever it takes to slowly disenfranchise every last
>one of you hypocritical bastards from your little two-faced hate group.
>-Ilr, counting the days

No one made anyone "King". As to how, consensus within the membership was
how (there are procedures and forums for this already in place, having had
to deal with it before). As to hypocrisy, I'd really would like to hear
your thoughts on such if you might be able to manage a reasoned discussion
without resorting to personal insults. Hope you have a pleasant one.

Regards,

invisi
BF

invisicat

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Feb 5, 2001, 11:07:55 AM2/5/01
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ba...@ursine.dyndns.org (Baloo Ursidae) wrote in
<5jdl59...@ursine.dyndns.org>:

>invisicat <n...@uhhuh.com> wrote:
>
>> claims or slanderous web pages or waste your time trolling aff (which
>> we all know you'd never do anyway). Nice try, troll on.
>

>Wasn't a troll, though. Flamebait, maybe, and you took it.
>

Perhaps. As to taking the bait, well yes, of course. It becomes somewhat
tiresome of speaking with those whom visit our channel on yiffnet who are
interested in the movement but have come to the misinformed impression that
we are somehow a "hate group" or "homophobic". When in fact a number
membership of Burned Fur range from either gay, lesbian, bi or
transgendered. I personally feel that this comes from not speaking out (and
going with the ol' saw of "Just ignore A. A is a twit and anyone could see
through A's transparent attempts.") when someone tries desperately to smear
us with any sort of falsehood just because they dislike our opinions on
fandom matters.

Anyway Baloo, you are correct, though I'll politely disagree with the troll
bit.

A pleasant one.

invisi
BF

FromTheDes...@stukafox.com

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Feb 5, 2001, 11:31:40 AM2/5/01
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ilr <i...@rof.net> wrote:

> See, I told ya he was a punk.
> But how can you kick him out? Who made you King BF?
> Oh well, whatever it takes to slowly disenfranchise every last
> one of you hypocritical bastards from your little two-faced hate group.


BAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAH!

Yeah -- like kicking out one or two of your supporters is gonna
change THIS mindset, Hangdog. The only thing kicking Gabe outta
your astute organization did was isolate yet another supporter,
make BF look even more thin-skinned, and give chuckleheads like
the above yet more ammo.

When is Burned Fur gonna learn that worrying about its reputation
and not its purpose is pointless and counter-productive? In the
eyes of furry, BF is, always has been, and always will be a hate
group. You scared furries with the Manifesto, so furries have done
what furries do best: circle the wagons, turn off the miniscule
part of their collective brains that can actually process a logical
arguement, and go 'LA LA LA LA LA' in hope that whatever big, mean
scarey monster is making them piss themselves like so many scared
Cocker Spaniels goes away.

Showing Gabe the door ain't gonna change that in the least.

FromTheDes...@stukafox.com

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Feb 5, 2001, 11:34:22 AM2/5/01
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Baloo Ursidae <ba...@ursine.dyndns.org> wrote:

> Uhh, someone missed the *sarcasm* involved in that filk...


And the person I actually expected to miss it most is the one who
seems to have gotten it, and was willing to speak up about it.

I'llbedamned. And pleased.

invisicat

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Feb 5, 2001, 11:55:40 AM2/5/01
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FromTheDes...@StukaFox.Com wrote in
<95mkhc$2nol$1...@velox.critter.net>:


> When is Burned Fur gonna learn that worrying about its reputation
> and not its purpose is pointless and counter-productive? In the
> eyes of furry, BF is, always has been, and always will be a hate
> group. You scared furries with the Manifesto, so furries have done
> what furries do best: circle the wagons, turn off the miniscule
> part of their collective brains that can actually process a logical
> arguement, and go 'LA LA LA LA LA' in hope that whatever big, mean
> scarey monster is making them piss themselves like so many scared
> Cocker Spaniels goes away.
>
> Showing Gabe the door ain't gonna change that in the least.

Perhaps it wont change the "mindset" Mike, but standards of behaviour have
to be adhered to on both sides if the fandom is to continue to improve.
We've set those standards for ourselves and as such aren't so hypocritical
as to not apply them when the time comes. In particular after having warned
Gabe about it before. Small fyi, I am not Hd.

Regards,

M.Humphries
(aka invisi)
BF

Allen Kitchen

unread,
Feb 5, 2001, 12:01:46 PM2/5/01
to

> StukaFox
> --
> The most important question of 2001 will be 'Why aren't you fucking FURIOUS?'

Because it's much more fun if you are relaxed and enjoying the others company.

Because Jupiter smells! No vacation value.

Because HAL was set up.

Because we'll have a moonbase at the southern lunar pole in 20 years; you
just watch!

[Venturestar to station, station to translunar shuttle, shuttle into polar
lunar orbit (fun!), orbit to southern pole where tons of water have been found,
southern pole to dark side for the perfect place to build radio and optical
observatories! Not cheap, but worth it!]

Allen Kitchen, applying the science reality to science fiction.

Martin Skunk

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Feb 5, 2001, 2:00:05 PM2/5/01
to

invisicat wrote, in reply to Baloo Ursidae:
>
> >
> >(Xydexx's message) Wasn't a troll (...) Flamebait, and you took it.


> >
>
> Perhaps. As to taking the bait, well yes, of course. It becomes somewhat
> tiresome of speaking with those whom visit our channel on yiffnet who are
> interested in the movement but have come to the misinformed impression that
> we are somehow a "hate group" or "homophobic". When in fact a number
> membership of Burned Fur range from either gay, lesbian, bi or
> transgendered. I personally feel that this comes from not speaking out (and
> going with the ol' saw of "Just ignore A. A is a twit and anyone could see
> through A's transparent attempts.") when someone tries desperately to smear
> us with any sort of falsehood just because they dislike our opinions on
> fandom matters.

Invisicat:

I do think that your new change of ideas about posting on AFF are a
sample of Burned Furs' new politics, so I consider it very positive,
both for the furrydom and for Burned Furs in particular. It seems that
you're interested in changing Burned Furs' image to furry fandom. For
me, booting Gabriel from BF is relevant signal. I do hope you keep up
trying to improve BF's image, although it seems to be a very hard task
to do.

Anyway, the message you wrote leads me to do a question to you,
Invisicat: Considering that furs have been misinformed about Burned
Furs, and that it has been flooded with falsehood since its creation as
a group, could you tell me which are Burned Fur's main goals, and how do
you pretend to achieve such goals?


--- Martin Skunk

Caveman Joe

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Feb 5, 2001, 2:14:30 PM2/5/01
to
Hell, I laughed. I got the picture... Why do people around here take things
so seriously? :/

--
Like the echoes of your childhood laughter, ever after...
Like the first time love urged you to take its guidance, in silence...
Like your heartbeat when you realise you're dying, but you're trying...
Like the way we cry for a happy ending...
I know...
http://www.furnation.com/cmj
http://clik.to/cmj
"Gabriel Gentile" <spook...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B6A40D1C.4AFD%spook...@earthlink.net...

Dark Ren

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Feb 5, 2001, 2:51:08 PM2/5/01
to
In article <R_Cf6.2998$Ea1.37382@news2-hme0>,

"Caveman Joe" <C...@RUOK36.FREESERVE.CO.UK> wrote:
> Hell, I laughed. I got the picture... Why do people around here take
things
> so seriously? :/

Likely because this particular topic is a rather sore and at times
volatile one. Long lived topics of ill repute tend to be like that.

Personally, I didn't read the whole thing. I could see after the first
few lines that it was either a bash or satire on a sore topic. Neither
is all that good.

FromTheDes...@stukafox.com

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Feb 5, 2001, 3:50:20 PM2/5/01
to
invisicat <n...@uhhuh.com> wrote:

> Perhaps it wont change the "mindset" Mike, but standards of behaviour have
> to be adhered to on both sides if the fandom is to continue to improve.
> We've set those standards for ourselves and as such aren't so hypocritical
> as to not apply them when the time comes. In particular after having warned
> Gabe about it before. Small fyi, I am not Hd.

It's obvious to everyone, pro and con, that Burned Fur is totally
ineffectual in its stated purpose. The only people you've shown
the door are your own members. Why not just flush the manifesto,
call yourselves something else, and start over again? That way,
your rid of the baggage that came with the name, and you can make
a fresh start of it. Right now, Burned Fur is synonomous with
'NaziAntiGayHateStormtropperThoughtPolice' on one side, and
'big fucking joke' on the other. All good intentions aside, BF's
only real victory to date has been scaring the horses.

Kicking Gabe out did nothing more than provide succor to the very
people your organization is allegedly against. Burned Fur needs to
figure out what its goals are before it worries about how its
reputation is holding it back.

RRyan59368

unread,
Feb 5, 2001, 3:52:17 PM2/5/01
to
Of course you are a burned fur. Those flames you start on here came from you
mouth and burn your butt.

Dark Ren

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Feb 5, 2001, 4:58:23 PM2/5/01
to
In article <95n3mc$400$1...@velox.critter.net>,

Potentially, such a move might require some of the more high
profile members to either become silent members or alter their
online handles associated with whatever new initiative might be
created. The presence of the same individuals would likely do just
as much to further the already laid thoughts as the name itself.

Though I suspect those two portions I mentioned would not be
agreed to by most.

FromTheDes...@stukafox.com

unread,
Feb 5, 2001, 6:34:05 PM2/5/01
to
Dark Ren <dar...@my-deja.com> wrote:

> The presence of the same individuals would likely do just
> as much to further the already laid thoughts as the name itself.


More to the point, BF needs something to build on. Right now,
all they have is the Manifesto, which defines them to one group
and damns them to another. With no real direction, BF just becomes
a catch-all for frustrations and fears. If they had something that
they could go 'SEE -- we did THIS. THIS is what we're about'. That'd
at least shut people like me up.

As it is, they're damned by inaction by one side and by ignorance from
the other.

FromTheDes...@stukafox.com

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Feb 5, 2001, 7:50:43 PM2/5/01
to
Mathue <mathu/e...@my-doja.com> wrote:

> Yuh know Mike, I never thought I'd want to shake your hand :)


DON'T TOUCH ME!!

(*blink*)

Uh, sorry, con flashback there . . .


> I've posted similar words before and gotten a 'Thanks for Sharing' nod and
> that's all. Maybe your post will have a better chance of sinking in . .

Trust me, you'll be hearing the crickets chirp on my posting, too.

> Have your fun with Invisicat, Stuka. I strongly suspect you'll have
> similar luck with changing the decorum of the core group of BF. :)


I've talked to Invsi, Hangdog, Gothtiger, well no end of other BF's,
and they all strike me as very honest and sincere about wanting to
enact some change. But there seems to be this paralysis born of fear
in the group. They captured lightning in a bottle, but once they had
it, they seemed afraid of what they'd done. I've been a raving asshole
in furry long enough to know that you cannot have political views in
a vaccuum. There's been no end of blowback against my OWN views by
friends and enemies alike. You simply can't be part of furry and
criticise it without taking a LOT of heat. I know it's gotta be Hell
for the people in BF. I'm sure they're shunned, hissed, boo'd, sworn
at, and libelled at every turn. But they're trying not to step on
any toes, and that just ain't gonna happen. You have the kinda views
BF has, you're gonna take heat, period. You will not be treated
fairly or honestly, you will be deliberately missunderstood. That's
the price. Pay it and do your thing, otherwise you're standing in a
ring and taking blow like a fall guy for no purpose at all.

As rude as it is, Burned Fur needs to shit or get off the pot.

invisicat

unread,
Feb 5, 2001, 9:26:32 PM2/5/01
to
FromTheDes...@StukaFox.Com wrote in
<95nhp3$h09$1...@velox.critter.net>:


> As rude as it is, Burned Fur needs to shit or get off the pot.

Well, I can see some validity in your posts Mike, however there are a
number of projects (some personal and some under the banner of BF) in the
works and a few already on the table. Aside from standing up and saying "X
is completely unrelated to the fandom", volunteering at cons, promoting and
supporting artists to being a support group for those many folks who have
been burned by the certian elements which have latched onto the fandom as
well as the afore mentioned projects [1], what would you suggest? I'm not
being sardonic on this point I am genuinely interested in what you have to
say.

However (and you are right there was a "but" coming) the general
consensus among the membership is that we have to hold ourselves to a
higher standard, more so than the vocal minority of our detractors. If a
member chooses to post something akin to what Gentile decided to (which by
the by, was something he had already posted once before and was called on
it then) without provocation, then we have to take some sort of action (be
it a warning or more so). This is not being thin skinned, nor solely about
PR value. It is being consistent with our call for responsibility of the
individual within the fandom. Going back to the Gentile post as a example,
that sort of post has zero value, it does nothing to improve anything and
could be misinterpreted (and probably would have been, if we hadn't taken
any action) and held up as yet another example of the group's supposed
"hate" stance.

As to our goals, I'm not sure what isn't clear about them. They are
stated rather clearly on our webpage. If you, or anyone else would like
make recommendations (within reason) they will be reviewed and considered.
Be well.

invisi
BF

[1] Hmmm, somewhat Xydexx like, but eh, no worries. This isn't a BF project
persay, but it is supported by number of the membership. I've begun to lay
the ground work (registered a domain, payed for server space and am in the
process of coding the site proper, out sourcing that bit because I'm
somewhat less than html savvy) for a one stop resource site to offer
tutorials (on everything from coloring to inking) and insight of more
experienced (or professional) artists within the fandom to those who are
just starting out as artists. So far we've gotten about six or so to sign
up for content and the site itself should be up in about a month and half,
if all goes well. Others are doing their own things, all in their own way,
are trying to improve the fandom. Myself, having chosen to do so via trying
to help improve the quality of the artistic material it produces.

Hangdog

unread,
Feb 5, 2001, 9:51:12 PM2/5/01
to
> Karl Xydexx Jorgensen <xyd...@besmartdontspam.net> wrote:
>
> > I'd just like to point out that Hangdog is still a
> > member of Burned Fur even after he made his homophobic and libelous

> > remarks about me on AFF back in August,

You mean the one about them boarding up your favorite gloryholes down at the
Greyhound station?

--Hangdog


Atara

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Feb 5, 2001, 10:12:52 PM2/5/01
to
First - I fixed the subject. It was buggin' me. ;)

n...@uhhuh.com (invisicat) wrote in <903FD8A8D...@209.125.35.22>:

>Aside from standing up and saying "X
>is completely unrelated to the fandom", volunteering at cons, promoting
>and supporting artists to being a support group for those many folks
>who have been burned by the certian elements which have latched onto
>the fandom as well as the afore mentioned projects [1], what would you
>suggest? I'm not being sardonic on this point I am genuinely interested
>in what you have to say.

I think part of the problem is that little has been done in the name of Burned
Fur. Lifestylers also individually volunteer at cons and individually promote
and support artists, so those actions - while vitally important to the fandom -
are going to get lost in the shuffle.

The ice cream social and the (mythical) Scorch zine were great starts. BF needs
to do more of the same, as a unified whole, in order to gain some respet as a
group within the fandom.

There's more, but... Well, I've already said it over and over. (And over and
over and over and over...)

--
Atara
"I've got a pantheon of animals
in a pagan soul..." -Rush
http://www.FurNation.com/Atara/

Ben_Raccoon

unread,
Feb 5, 2001, 5:39:07 PM2/5/01
to
O_o?

And how much effort and time did this take?

--


For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered. - Harlan
Ellison.

Shameless website plug. :) http://www.furnation.com/ben_raccoon/


Karl Xydexx Jorgensen

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Feb 5, 2001, 10:46:44 PM2/5/01
to
Atara wrote:
> There's more, but... Well, I've already said it over and over. (And over and
> over and over and over...)

You're not the only one.

--
_________________________________________________
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen / Xydexx Squeakypony, KSC
Anthrofurry Infocenter:
http://www.xydexx.com/anthrofurry

FromTheDes...@stukafox.com

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Feb 5, 2001, 11:52:51 PM2/5/01
to
invisicat <n...@uhhuh.com> wrote:

> Well, I can see some validity in your posts Mike, however there are a
> number of projects (some personal and some under the banner of BF) in the
> works and a few already on the table.


No offense or anything, Invis, but we've heard that 'coming real
soon now' line for the past three years. And, as I've said in
the past, given the amount of inactivity since BF's firey inception,
y'all just about need to pull the Second Coming out of your hat
to regain any credibility as a purposeful movement. We already
got Yerf and privates MUCKS, so unless you got a con hidden under
your belt, y'might wanna start working on Burned Fur's concession
speech, or at least some explanation to the people who believed
in you (the 'Burned Fur' you, not you personally) blew it so
badly.

> However (and you are right there was a "but" coming) the general
> consensus among the membership is that we have to hold ourselves to a
> higher standard, more so than the vocal minority of our detractors.

That's all well and good -- you can be the top turd on the shitheap --
but I don't see how that's answering any of the Manifesto's challenges.
Yes, you're surrounded by mouthy idiots, your's truly amoungst them,
but saying 'Well, at least we're not StukaFox' doesn't make you
something better by default.

> If a member chooses to post something akin to what Gentile decided to

> without provocation, then we have to take some sort of action (be
> it a warning or more so).

Yeesh -- lighten up a little. Burned Fur ain't gonna suffer any
more loss of reputation (as I've explained, this is impossible
and no amount of 'nicing' is gonna make the perverts you're allegedly
against clutch you to their bossom) because Gabe posted the first
funny thing I've read on AFF in a week. Gabe posted exactly the
kind of in-your-face attitude that Burned Fur was founded on, but
has run away from in fear of stepping on toes. Too late, guys --
y'already ran their fucking feet over with a steam roller when the
Manifesto came out. Kissing them to make it all better ain't gonna
help, so you might as well finish what you started. You've thrown
down the gauntlet, now follow it up or get off the field.

> This is not being thin skinned, nor solely about
> PR value. It is being consistent with our call for responsibility of the
> individual within the fandom. Going back to the Gentile post as a example,
> that sort of post has zero value, it does nothing to improve anything and
> could be misinterpreted (and probably would have been, if we hadn't taken
> any action) and held up as yet another example of the group's supposed
> "hate" stance.

That's all very lofty, but in case you haven't realized this,
you're wrestling with pigs. All the high-mindedness in the world
ain't gonna help here. If the whole idea of Burned Fur is gonna
be 'we're the counterexample', then you need to flush the Manifesto,
get rid of everyone in your group with even the slightest taint
of anti-furriness and learn to walk on your knees, because you're
gonna have to become the biggest group of ass-kissers to ever grace
this sorry hobby.

Invisi, no matter how badly you want to, you cannot remove the
taint of Burned Fur from Burned Fur.


> As to our goals, I'm not sure what isn't clear about them. They are
> stated rather clearly on our webpage.


My question remains: what are you doing to achieve them that's keeping
with the words your organization was founded on?

ilr

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Feb 6, 2001, 12:21:58 AM2/6/01
to

Mr. "Lone Gunman" <FromTheDes...@StukaFox.Com> wrote:

> BAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAH!
>
> Yeah -- like kicking out one or two of your supporters is gonna
> change THIS mindset, Hangdog. The only thing kicking Gabe outta
> your astute organization did was isolate yet another supporter,
> make BF look even more thin-skinned, and give chuckleheads like
> the above yet more ammo.

Coming from you, I consider that a compliment :) And I'm
glad to see my peripheral attack was not upstaged by rational
debate that didn't fly off on the same belligerent tangent...


>
> When is Burned Fur gonna learn that worrying about its reputation
> and not its purpose is pointless and counter-productive? In the
> eyes of furry, BF is, always has been, and always will be a hate
> group. You scared furries with the Manifesto, so furries have done
> what furries do best: circle the wagons, turn off the miniscule
> part of their collective brains that can actually process a logical
> arguement, and go 'LA LA LA LA LA' in hope that whatever big, mean
> scarey monster is making them piss themselves like so many scared
> Cocker Spaniels goes away.
>

Sorta like a bunch of sheep that live their lives in fear of even the
slightest taboo, and persecute all others as freely as they please
because someone told them a book said they could, and that they
could get away with anything, legal or not, and not be persecuted
by a mysterious master that would always persecute all others so
passionately.
Why the hell would so many people do something of
the likes? Perhaps it's just natural human behavior. The same
could be said for hypocrisy.
While your Bad-Cop-Good-Cop routine with Invisicat is so
uninspired, I feel genuine SHAME for everyone who falls for it.

> Showing Gabe the door ain't gonna change that in the least.

And such wide brush-strokes insulting the public won't get you
the image of a valiant rebel when your policies differ so little from
the target you pretend to be attacking.
-Ilr


ilr

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Feb 6, 2001, 12:39:36 AM2/6/01
to

Baloo Ursidae <ba...@ursine.dyndns.org> wrote in message news:qc6n59...@ursine.dyndns.org...
> ilr <i...@rof.net> wrote:
>
> > -Ilr, counting the days
>
> It was over before it started. A lot like Microsoft.
>
> --
> Baloo

Hmm, I think you got a point Baloo, and have been the voice
of reason about this ridiculous stunt.
-Ilr


Rainshadow

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Feb 6, 2001, 12:55:08 AM2/6/01
to
In article <95nhp3$h09$1...@velox.critter.net>,
FromTheDes...@StukaFox.Com writes:

|> Trust me, you'll be hearing the crickets chirp on my posting, too.

you're only ever talking to the mirror, yo.


--
work like a dog, drink like a fish, ride like the wind...

n o a .
a s d w y h o c m
r h @ o o

ilr

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Feb 6, 2001, 1:22:56 AM2/6/01
to

invisicat <n...@uhhuh.com> wrote in message news:903F6A7BA...@209.125.35.22...

> i...@rof.net (ilr) wrote in <95m7k1$566$1...@raccoon.fur.com>:
>
> No one made anyone "King". As to how, consensus within the membership was
> how (there are procedures and forums for this already in place, having had
> to deal with it before). As to hypocrisy, I'd really would like to hear
> your thoughts on such if you might be able to manage a reasoned discussion
> without resorting to personal insults. Hope you have a pleasant one.
>
> Regards,
>
If you're so observant, you'd know I don't care about the past, only what's
ahead, so I won't waste time listing all the hypocritical deeds the majority
of BF has skimmed across, also because you've managed to rectify or at
least cover them and possibly not repeat them. One that DOES concern
me though is your plans for mentoring newer artists.
Personally I think that's a wonderful idea and I support it atleast as
much as your willing to believe I do. However it won't mean a damn thing
to me unless it encourages erotic furry work too. The majority of the
complaints I've heard of furrotica is the mass of hackneyed dreck it is.
(While I'm hesitant to believe these claims coming from it's sources who
often happen to be G-rated professionals who feel it is cutting into their
sales). But I think it's got plenty of uninspired crap too. Forget about
the content of the pictures, whether it's M/M, herm, Taurs, the ONLY
selling point it should be judged on is how GOOD it is. They say a picture
is worth a thousand words, that's because there's literally a thousand
variables comprising it, that when viewed independently can be much
more easily judged.
That's why I say, the MOST effect you could possibly have on
policing the fringe crapolla that passes for art in this fandom, is to
#1 EDUCATE and nurture the up-and-coming artists who would be likely
to produce it and #2 Have an opened_minded_enough and stimulating
environment to keep 'em coming back and hopefully attract even more
potential talent.
Having some anonymous perv in a trenchcoat compliment one's
work doesn't carry nearly the merit of a good review from some of
one's most out-spoken opposition. There's something to be said about
pleasing the toughest critics. -Ilr


David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)

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Feb 7, 2001, 6:31:44 AM2/7/01
to
On 5 Feb 2001 23:34:05 GMT, FromTheDes...@StukaFox.Com
<FromTheDes...@StukaFox.Com> wrote:

[...]

> More to the point, BF needs something to build on. Right now,
> all they have is the Manifesto, which defines them to one group
> and damns them to another. With no real direction, BF just becomes
> a catch-all for frustrations and fears. If they had something that
> they could go 'SEE -- we did THIS. THIS is what we're about'. That'd
> at least shut people like me up.

Stuka fox when your wrong your wrong but when you are right you can
hit the nail right on the head. There is a chance that they would
shut people like me up as well.

Moving from a group defined by what they hate to a group defined by
what they love would be good for them and for the fandom.

--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
Free the Memes.

FromTheDes...@stukafox.com

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Feb 7, 2001, 11:40:44 AM2/7/01
to
chance wolf <vi...@redwall.net> wrote:


> I don't take you seriously, of course, but I've had the odd
> conversation with some of those 19th century throwback scofflaw wolf-
> killing ranching bastards, and this part of your post dredged up more
> than a few unpleasant memories of same.


Chance,

You ever actually heard the song Gabe's doing a parody of?

StukaFox

Martin Skunk

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Feb 7, 2001, 2:31:45 PM2/7/01
to
"David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)" wrote:

>
> StukaFox wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > More to the point, BF needs something to build on. Right now,
> > all they have is the Manifesto, which defines them to one group
> > and damns them to another. With no real direction, BF just becomes
> > a catch-all for frustrations and fears. If they had something that
> > they could go 'SEE -- we did THIS. THIS is what we're about'. That'd
> > at least shut people like me up.
>
> Stuka fox when your wrong your wrong but when you are right you can
> hit the nail right on the head. There is a chance that they would
> shut people like me up as well.
>

I totally agree with these points. I suggest that Burned Furs change
everything relating them with their "past" (even the name, if necessary)
and concentrate in being a "pro-something" group rather than an
"anti-something else" group. That would be very positive for furrydom.


--- Martin Skunk

Message has been deleted

Alan Kennedy

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Feb 7, 2001, 7:36:43 PM2/7/01
to
Saxfyle <saxfyleR...@angelfire.com> wrote in message
news:95son7$6ot$1...@raccoon.fur.com...
> There's something that I would ask that is totally unrelated, but what
> does "pot kettle black" means? I see it regurlarly, is it the actual
> expression or a shortened one? Is it something about double standard?
> What's the litteral meaning?

> Saxfyle

It means in simple terms hypocrite, or calling your self one thing while
guiesed as another.

Or simply, two-faced, like most furries are in my experience.

Some wonder why I'm so jaded at times.

--
Alan Kennedy [TriGem Olandarinse]

EMAIL : tri...@REMOVEGIBBERISH.hotmail.com
YAHOO : goldanthrowolf & trigem_olandarinse
WWW : http://www.furnation.com/trigem
ICQ : 8781052

AUCTIONS :
http://furrybid.transform.to/cgi-bin/auction.pl?justdisp&Trigem_olandarinse


Ben_Raccoon

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Feb 7, 2001, 7:40:43 PM2/7/01
to
"Saxfyle" <saxfyleR...@angelfire.com> wrote in message
news:95son7$6ot$1...@raccoon.fur.com...
> There's something that I would ask that is totally unrelated, but what
> does "pot kettle black" means? I see it regurlarly, is it the actual
> expression or a shortened one? Is it something about double standard?
> What's the litteral meaning?

It's an old adage, 'boy, that's the pot calling the kettle black' back when
pots and kettles were both made of iron. It's basically saying that one
person's criticizing the other for a property they themselves have. In
short, being a hyppocrite.

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Custer J. Winston

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Feb 7, 2001, 9:56:25 PM2/7/01
to
So where is this roster?

FromTheDes...@stukafox.com

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Feb 7, 2001, 11:11:05 PM2/7/01
to
Saxfyle <saxfyleR...@angelfire.com> wrote:
> There's something that I would ask that is totally unrelated, but what
> does "pot kettle black" means? I see it regurlarly, is it the actual
> expression or a shortened one? Is it something about double standard?
> What's the litteral meaning?

The pot calling the kettle 'black'.

Accusing someone of something you're doing yourself.

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