Xydexx rec's "Threat of Violence?" Judge for yourself.

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Hangdog

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Having dealt with Mark Loggins, let me turn my attention to another
notable liar her on a.f.f: Karl Jorgenson, aka Xydexx.

For some time now, Karl's been alluding to a "threat of violence"
he supposedly received from a Burned Fur member. I have been
asked to post the full text of the exchange in which this "threat" was

made. Read it, and judge for yourself whether the truth is in Mr.
Jorgenson. For my part, I believe he's full of...well...hot air.

http://x5.dejanews.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?
AN=419472939&CONTEXT=92479
9091.2004942860&hitnum=2

********
Re: OOPS! (Was: Kook Page?) Author: videocube
<vide...@my-dejanews.com>
Date: 1998/12/07
Forum: dejanews.members.ent.videocube.burned-fur

In article <74eorr$u99$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
peter...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <74doh2$5no$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> vide...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > Like I said, the page's purpose is not to annoy Xydexx. It's to >
> inform others so they'll know what to expect if they run across
> > him. But if anyone thinks the page isn't serving its intended
> > purpose, let me know. Of course, if I ever run into him at a con,
> > I'll put his fucking head through a wall.
>
> I assume you're speaking metaphorically, of course. If you are, I
>agree*. But I also assume that, if Pony Boy greps this post, he will
>trumpet your words far and wide as an example of how Burned Fur is "a

>violent group."
>
> *While I don't think you're speaking literally, I feel I have to say

>that if you *are*, this would be a bad thing to do. Entirely aside
>from the wrongness of physical force in this situation, you don't
>want to make your oppenent a martyr. Besides, is it really worth
>going to jail just to give him his comeuppance?

I apologize for raising such concerns, Hangdog. This hasn't been
an easy week for me. I was extremely upset when I wrote that,
and I honestly didn't care what I said to anyone. My patience
had run out, and for the first time, I truly lost my temper.

I can assure you that I have no actual desire to inflict physical
violence upon anyone or ruin any perfectly good walls. In the
future, I'll try not to let my fustrations get the best of me.

Clint Forrester
vide...@mindspring.com

-== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own


Xydexx Squeakypony

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Please consider the facts:

1. Clint Forrester threatened me with violence. This is
a matter of public record. No amount of apologies from
him should allow Hangdog to rewrite history and pretend
it didn't happen.

2. Clint Forrester only apologized _after_ Hangdog said
it would make Burned Fur look bad, which looks an
awful lot like some pretty hasty PR work to me.

3. Upon hearing about Clint Forrester's threats of violence
against me, GothTiger (Michael Campbell), joked about
selling tickets to the event, and commented how he would
LOVE to see it happen:
http://www.dejanews.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=419334074

"I would like nothing better in the world than to watch
mister too-many-consonants get what's coming to him."
---GothTiger

Does Burned Fur support violence? That's not the issue.

I think the real issue here is:


ARE THESE THE PEOPLE YOU WANT REPRESENTING BURNED FUR?


Burned Fur wouldn't be struggling for support if it weren't
for extremists like these guys. Maybe it's time Burned Furs
need to seriously ask themselves who they'd rather be
associated with: Reasonable folks like Darrel Exline who
actually want to improve things in this fandom, or folks
like Hangdog and GothTiger who just want to continue
swamping alt.fan.furry with flames?


MODERATE BURNED FURS --- START YOUR OWN GROUP!

What On Earth Are You Waiting For?


____________________________________________________________
Xydexx Squeakypony [ICQ: 7569393]
"The only problem with not participating in flamewars is
that nobody notices you're not participating in them." -Me

Matthigh

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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(drivel excised)

<<associated with: Reasonable folks like Darrel Exline who
actually want to improve things in this fandom, or folks
like Hangdog and GothTiger who just want to continue
swamping alt.fan.furry with flames?<<

Um, actually, I am neither a Burned Fur or one of their opponents.

But to me the anti-Burned Fur nitwits have done a much better job of turning me
off than Burned Furs.

Neither group comes out clean, but the anti-BF'ers are coming across much
worse.

I would strongly recommend you just shut the hell up and let things be.
Please.

Xydexx Squeakypony

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Matthigh wrote:
> I would strongly recommend you just shut the hell up and let things be.

I know, I know. Nobody wants to hear about it.

Heck, _I_ could've told you that.

Lancid

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Hi there.

Ain't you tired of it all yet, Karl ?

Lancid.
http://come.to/Evil.Empire


Dr. Cat

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Lancid (writ...@dev.null) wrote:
: Hi there.

: Ain't you tired of it all yet, Karl ?

You know, if everyone in the newsgroup would ignore BOTH sides of this
argument, the Burned Fur detractors AND the rude Burned Furs, it would
get a lot more peaceful around here for a while.

*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*

(Disclaimer: Only until the next flamewar, tho.)

Matthew Milam

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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It's going to occur to you one of these days, that no one around here
is going to work with you on this problem your having with Burned
furs, or any issue of importance. So technically, you are in the same
resulted situation as I was in 1996-97 when I asked for help against
two mucks.

Everyone has the suspicson your nuts, out for attenion, and possibly
just interested in flaming. So the best I can say, is that you better
just keep a low profile.

Matthew Milam
"However, that was told to me, and I didn't listen. Oh well"
mmi...@interlync.com

Matthew Milam

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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On 28 Apr 1999 07:06:22 GMT, matt...@aol.comPINKMEAT (Matthigh)
wrote:

>I would strongly recommend you just shut the hell up and let things be.

>Please.

Why do I sense some of you taking the "Colorado" apporach?

Matthew Milam
mmi...@interlync.com


Galen Wolffit

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Matthew Milam (mmi...@interlync.com) wrote:
: It's going to occur to you one of these days, that no one around here

: is going to work with you on this problem your having with Burned
: furs, or any issue of importance. So technically, you are in the same
: resulted situation as I was in 1996-97 when I asked for help against
: two mucks.

: Everyone has the suspicson your nuts, out for attenion, and possibly
: just interested in flaming. So the best I can say, is that you better
: just keep a low profile.

Mr. Milam, please do not speak for 'everyone'. As the legal council for a
member of the informal organization known as 'everyone', I have been asked to
inform you and 'everyone else' (that is, everyone who is not you or me) that
it is not true that 'everyone' believes what you claim.

To be specific, neither I nor the gentlefur I represent belieeve that Mr.
Squeakypony is nuts, or out for attention, or just interested in flaming.

Thank you for listening to this public service announcement.

--
Galen Wolffit, who is representing himself in this matter. Does that make him
a fool?
FCW[Wolffit]3adrw A-- C->+ D H++ M++++ P? R+ T W Z-
Sm# RLCT a23 cln++++$ e+ f->+ h-- h+>++ iw+++$ p* sm#

AnubisXy

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Actually Xydexx.. go back and reread what Clint said..

> > Like I said, the page's purpose is not to annoy Xydexx. It's to >
> inform others so they'll know what to expect if they run across
> > him. But if anyone thinks the page isn't serving its intended
> > purpose, let me know. Of course, if I ever run into him at a con,
> > I'll put his fucking head through a wall.

It looks to me that Clint here is speaking genericly. He is saying that he
will put ANYONES head though a wall if thet think the page isn't preforming
it's intended service, he will put that persons head through a wall.. *shrug*
it just doesn't look to me like he is targetting you specifically.

AnubisXy

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------

Ucalegon

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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In article <7g72vn$qor$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>, ma...@axsamer.org (Galen Wolffit)
writes:

>Mr. Milam, please do not speak for 'everyone'.

I find the idea of Matthew Milam telling *anyone* how to
behave hilarious. Or pitiful, or disgusting, something like that.

Acag, Treesong (ucal...@aol.com)

Farlo

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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"Hangdog" peter....@pdq.net wrote in <37269AB5...@pdq.net>:

> Having dealt with Mark Loggins, let me turn my attention to another
> notable liar her on a.f.f: Karl Jorgenson, aka Xydexx.

Xydexx is not a liar.

Maybe Hangdog thinks he can rewrite history.
Maybe he thinks I wouldn't call him on it.
Maybe he disrespects the intelligence of everyone reading his posts.

Maybe he'd like me to be his "special friend".
I can do that.

He won't like it.

Farlo
Urban Fey Dragon, Furry Freedom Fighter
FRM - Furry Resistance Movement
http://www.dejanews.com/~furculture

Farlo

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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"Matthigh" wrote:

>the anti-Burned Fur nitwits have done a much better job of turning me
>off than Burned Furs.

Matt, you are foolish, but entitled to the opinion.

>I would strongly recommend you just shut the hell up and let things be.
>Please.

I will never shut up until this threat is ended.
You like the BF so much - wait till it's YOUR ass they're after.
Cuddle with that thought.

Farlo

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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"Lancid" writ...@dev.null wrote in <7g6jia$kgh$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>:

>Ain't you tired of it all yet, Karl ?

He might be, but I am relentless.

Vixy

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Matthigh wrote in message <19990428030622...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
>(drivel excised)

>I would strongly recommend you just shut the hell up and let things be.
>Please.

Just take a look at the original author of this thread. Is that a burned
fur? Why yeeeesss, it is. Why blame someone for defending himself?
=========+=========+=========+=========+=========+=========+=====
Victry 'love long and perspire; Vixy' Hyzenthlay
Technofox and personal Vixen. "YIP!"
Furry Fan with a Furry Lifestyle... AND a life! ;>
_____________________
/ \ _
)""""\___ |- - - - - - - - - - - -| |_\____
)----| |\-| Vivacious Vixen II |-/| | |\
)____|___|=============================| """|_)
`----' \|http://members.Xoom.com/Vixy |/"""""
"""|"""""""/"""""\"""""""|"""
Victry{nospam}@- `=++++=" "=++++=' -@{remove}juno;com
Please post any response to this newsgroup. Thanks.

Alan \TriGem\ Kennedy

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Galen Wolffit wrote:

*snip*

> To be specific, neither I nor the gentlefur I represent belieeve that Mr.
> Squeakypony is nuts, or out for attention, or just interested in flaming.
>
> Thank you for listening to this public service announcement.
>
> --
> Galen Wolffit, who is representing himself in this matter. Does that make him

*snickers* No Galen, I am nuts. Xydexx is just concerned and possibly confused.

*drivel, drool, and dagnabit..*

Life sucks folks, people bitch, rant and argue all day long.

It happens, get an ice cream cone, go on with like, shut the fuck up and deal.

Live life, and then die.

Have a happy crappy day.

:P~~~
--
Alan "TriGem" Kennedy ICQ #8781052 http://www.furnation.com/trigem

The technology we have weaved for ourselves is a double-edged knife of conspiricy
and publicity to be trapped within. -
Me Dammit!

Ashes to ashes, dust to dusts, if you don't take it out and use it, it's going to
rust! - Katana, Highlander II

Rat Shit, Bat Shit, Dirty old twat, 69 assholes tied in a knot, hooray, lizard
shit, Fuck! - George Carlin

Farlo

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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"AnubisXy" Anub...@aol.com wrote in <7g771f$6d5$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>:

>Actually Xydexx.. go back and reread what Clint said..
>
>> > Like I said, the page's purpose is not to annoy Xydexx. It's to >
>> inform others so they'll know what to expect if they run across
>> > him. But if anyone thinks the page isn't serving its intended
>> > purpose, let me know. Of course, if I ever run into him at a con,
>> > I'll put his fucking head through a wall.
>
>It looks to me that Clint here is speaking genericly.

It's hardly the "we're not violent" image that Hangdog would like you to
have seen. Even by your own admission, Clint is saying something to the
equivalent of "If someone thinks that this page isn't informative, I'll
put [that someone's] head through a F**cking wall".

That makes Clint a danger to practically anyone he runs across,
given his childish "me grog" intellect.

"The page? Oh, I didn't undertand i..." *WHAM!*
"I didn't see it ..." *WHAM!*
"It didn't make sens ... " *WHAM!*

It can be generally inferred that Clint would be just as violent to Xydexx
as well as anyone else unfortunate to cross Clint's path. Maybe the rest
of the BF (well, some of them) are not violent, but Clint's history of
threats is well-documented. He also threatened TWoolfe, if I remember.

StukaFox

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Vixy <res...@here.please> wrote:

: Just take a look at the original author of this thread. Is that a burned


: fur? Why yeeeesss, it is. Why blame someone for defending himself?


Why blame Burned Fur for your flaming?

StukaFox
Quid Pro Quo

Vixy

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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AnubisXy wrote in message <7g771f$6d5$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

>It looks to me that Clint here is speaking genericly. He is saying that he
>will put ANYONES head though a wall if thet think the page isn't preforming
>it's intended service, he will put that persons head through a wall.. *shrug*
>it just doesn't look to me like he is targetting you specifically.

Sorry to disappoint you but it DOES sound like he is specifically speaking
about Xydexx. Also, he admitted he was referencing Xydexx later.

Also, this (Clint Forester) is the same guy who went nutso wacko on
Purrsia.yerf.yap and began posting obscene, berserk tantrums which cursed
everything and everyone under the sun for no reason and to no end till the
moderator removed him. Quite literally, crazy. Seems he didn't like the people
there either.

At first I just thought he was speaking out of his sphincter when making
physical threats against Xydexx. But after witnessing his actions on
Purrsia.yerf.yap, I'm not so sure he would be able to control himself if the two
came face-to-face.

goth_...@my-dejanews.com

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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In article <8DB6431...@news.fysh.org>,

Farlo <stan...@abac.com> wrote:
> "Hangdog" peter....@pdq.net wrote in <37269AB5...@pdq.net>:
>
> > Having dealt with Mark Loggins, let me turn my attention to another
> > notable liar her on a.f.f: Karl Jorgenson, aka Xydexx.
>
> Xydexx is not a liar.

No, he just doesn't tell the whole truth, which is essentially the same thing.

StukaFox

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Alan \\TriGem\\ Kennedy <tri...@hotmail.com> wrote:

: Life sucks folks, people bitch, rant and argue all day long.

: It happens, get an ice cream cone, go on with like, shut the fuck up and deal.

: Live life, and then die.

: Have a happy crappy day.


You're my hero, Alan!

(The stalking will start immediately)


StukaFox


Farlo

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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"" goth_...@my-dejanews.com wrote in <7g7dng$cu9$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>:

> Farlo wrote:
>> Xydexx is not a liar.
>
>No, he just doesn't tell the whole truth, which is essentially the same
thing.

He does not bend the truth or misrepresent facts.
I know some people who do - can you name them, Gothtiger?
There's a whole list of them on a page, plus Squee's rant.

Honesty is not exactly a "shining virtue" of the BF.

StukaFox

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Farlo <stan...@abac.com> wrote:

: Maybe he'd like me to be his "special friend".
: I can do that.

: He won't like it.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAH!!!

Farlo the Gormless cranks off with yet ANOTHER empty threat!

Whatcha gonna do, Gormless? Another post to AUK? Mail-bomb him?
Launch one of your pathetic lame-wars? Christ, you are PATHETIC!
33-year-old guy sitting at home, pretending to be a dragon, and
worse, trying to pretend he's a bad-ass on the Usenet! If he
was like 16 and in highschool, I could understand this. But
he's damn near a middle-aged man!

Gormless, do I need to remind you how badly schooled you got
LAST time you tried this stunt? How you had to run off the Usenet
and go into email because of the severity of the scortching you
so rightfully recieved? How you had to run off to alt.usenet.kooks
to try to find someone to back you, only to find Tim "Wanky the
Wanker" Thorn, the lamest flamer on the Usenet? Couldn't even post
with your own account, Gormless, you had to hide behind Deja-News
and made damn sure the URL to your little circle-jerk newsgroup
was well hidden, lest the flames you tried to direct at me blow
back and incinerate your sorry ass.

Puh-fucking-thetic.

Now, with your ass still glowing from the last flaming you recieved,
you're all fulla piss-and-vinegar again and trying to start ANOTHER
flame war! "He won't like it". What an empty threat! Look, "Farlo",
I know reality to you is as alien as the Book of the Dead written
in Chinese on a Martian's ass, but let's try to drop the dragon act
for a second and take a look at it, 'k? There's NOTHING you can do
to Hangdog. You can't flame, you mailbomb and your account is vaporized,
no one on alt.usenet.kooks wants to play with you, and compared to you,
even at his worst, Hangdog comes across as the Voice of Pure reason
and doubtlessly sounds like Charlseton Heston vs. your Emo Phillips.

So, for once, for ONCE in your life, do yourself a favor: QUIT TRYING
TO ACT LIKE A BADASS WHEN YOU'RE NOT!

Oh, and one more thing, lest you forget your last foray into the world
of Flaming: SPANK!


StukaFox

Hangdog

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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StukaFox wrote:

> and compared to you,
> even at his worst, Hangdog comes across as the Voice of Pure reason
> and doubtlessly sounds like Charlseton Heston vs. your Emo Phillips.

Hmmm...

"...and DON'T forget to make it a Bud Light!"
"...and don't FORGET to make it a Bud Light!"
"...and don't forget to make it a BUD Light!"

...yeah...yeah, I can see that...:o)

--Hang("I've brought down these 15--whoops!*smash!*...ten--Ten Commandments...)dog


StukaFox

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Hangdog <peter....@pdq.net> wrote:
: StukaFox wrote:

: Hmmm...


You go off and head the NRA, the relationship is off! ;)

StukaFox


Dr. Cat

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Farlo (stan...@abac.com) wrote:
: "Lancid" writ...@dev.null wrote in <7g6jia$kgh$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>:

: >Ain't you tired of it all yet, Karl ?

: He might be, but I am relentless.

Aw c'mon, Farlo, get tired of it already. Everybody else is. :X)

*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*

(Disclaimer: If everybody else stops tho and he just keeps replying to his
own posts, maybe he won't be *quite* so annoying.)

goth_...@my-dejanews.com

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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In article <37276...@feed1.realtime.net>,

c...@bga.com (Dr. Cat) wrote:
> Farlo (stan...@abac.com) wrote:
> : "Lancid" writ...@dev.null wrote in <7g6jia$kgh$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>:
>
> : >Ain't you tired of it all yet, Karl ?
>
> : He might be, but I am relentless.
>
> Aw c'mon, Farlo, get tired of it already. Everybody else is. :X)

Amen to that, Dr. Cat.

Emi Melissa Briet

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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> > In article <74doh2$5no$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

> > vide...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > > I'll put his fucking head through a wall.

Actually, technically, just typing this line and posting it to the net
could be construed as a threat by word of the law, whether you meant it or
not.

--Emi

--
Emi Briet -- Adecco's kawaii tempie-chan! ^_^
Keep hot water with you at all times!

RC[1.0]: r+(+) R!++ AG HS x++ SP Du+ m+ mu++ E:#transgen H F:+ a26
d+ s-: NA x Sch:CS,BA L:E m+ M w++ N,IE


Vixy

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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goth_...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <7g7ubk$t5c$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

>In article <37276...@feed1.realtime.net>,
> c...@bga.com (Dr. Cat) wrote:
>> Farlo (stan...@abac.com) wrote:
>> : "Lancid" writ...@dev.null wrote in <7g6jia$kgh$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>:
>>
>> : >Ain't you tired of it all yet, Karl ?
>>
>> : He might be, but I am relentless.
>>
>> Aw c'mon, Farlo, get tired of it already. Everybody else is. :X)
>
>Amen to that, Dr. Cat.

But when will it end? When will the BFs obnoxious few loudmouths cease
trolling and flaming aimlessly with no regard for anyone else? Let's just see
if they can go without trolling/aimless flaming anymore. No more using the
B-word in threads where it's totally off topic. No more fixation with Xydexx or
lifestylers or spiritualists or ameture furry works right out of the blue. No
more baselessly broadstroking and generalizing the worst of Furry Fandom. I
genuinly doubt they can. Of course all they have to do is shut their yaps to
prove me wrong. ;)

Richard Chandler - WA Resident

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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In article <8DB6C1A...@news.fysh.org>, Farlo <stan...@abac.com> writes:
> "Farlo" stan...@abac.com wrote in <8DB6C4C...@news.fysh.org>:
> Amendment: They ATTACK or DERIDE or IMPLY, and I snap at them.
> You'll notice that I pick and choose.

Fine, you snap. But what do you stand for? What IS your opinion? What do
you WANT to have in Furry Fandom?


--
The greatest tragedy is that the same species that achieved space flight,
a cure for polio, and the transistor, is also featured nightly on COPS.
-- Richard Chandler
Spammer Warning: Washington State Law now provides civil penalties for UCE.


Akai

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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StukaFox wrote:

I blame Burned Fur for MST3K being cancelled. It's a conspiracy, y'know!


--
-Akai

"He who makes a beast of himself
gets rid of the pain of being a man."

Farlo

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
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"Dr. Cat" c...@bga.com wrote in <37276...@feed1.realtime.net>:

>Farlo (stan...@abac.com) wrote:
>: "Lancid" writ...@dev.null wrote in <7g6jia$kgh$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>:
>
>: >Ain't you tired of it all yet, Karl ?
>
>: He might be, but I am relentless.
>
>Aw c'mon, Farlo, get tired of it already. Everybody else is. :X)

They post, I snap at them.
It's simple.

Farlo

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
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>"Dr. Cat" c...@bga.com wrote in <37276...@feed1.realtime.net>:


>
>>Farlo (stan...@abac.com) wrote:
>>: "Lancid" writ...@dev.null wrote in <7g6jia$kgh$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>:
>>
>>: >Ain't you tired of it all yet, Karl ?
>>
>>: He might be, but I am relentless.
>>
>>Aw c'mon, Farlo, get tired of it already. Everybody else is. :X)
>
>They post, I snap at them.
>It's simple.

Amendment: They ATTACK or DERIDE or IMPLY, and I snap at them.


You'll notice that I pick and choose.

Farlo

Matthew Milam

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
On 28 Apr 1999 13:37:59 GMT, ma...@axsamer.org (Galen Wolffit) wrote:

>Matthew Milam (mmi...@interlync.com) wrote:
>: It's going to occur to you one of these days, that no one around here
>: is going to work with you on this problem your having with Burned
>: furs, or any issue of importance. So technically, you are in the same
>: resulted situation as I was in 1996-97 when I asked for help against
>: two mucks.
>
>: Everyone has the suspicson your nuts, out for attenion, and possibly
>: just interested in flaming. So the best I can say, is that you better
>: just keep a low profile.
>

>Mr. Milam, please do not speak for 'everyone'.

I'm not speaking for everyone, i'm stating from exprience, that and
the fact I usually don't take any of you completely seriously. And
since I have the right to do what I want, the reply is worthless.

Ass legal council for a

>member of the informal organization known as 'everyone', I have been asked to
>inform you and 'everyone else' (that is, everyone who is not you or me) that
>it is not true that 'everyone' believes what you claim.

Ah, never mind. You didn't read the bottom as I suspected.

Matthew Milam
mmi...@interlync.com


Matthew Milam

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
On 28 Apr 1999 14:09:09 GMT, ucal...@aol.com (Ucalegon) wrote:

>In article <7g72vn$qor$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>, ma...@axsamer.org (Galen Wolffit)
>writes:
>

>>Mr. Milam, please do not speak for 'everyone'.
>

>I find the idea of Matthew Milam telling *anyone* how to
>behave hilarious. Or pitiful, or disgusting, something like that.

Well, then you have my permission to bitch and complain the next time
I do this again. Consider however, you did some simlar things way back
when, and interestingly suggested you didn't want to speak to me.
Since you have contributed to the subject in discussion, it appears to
me, that you seem less interested in following your own rules. Hence
what I said in the bottom half of my orginal message.

Matthew Milam
mmi...@interlync.com

>
>Acag, Treesong (ucal...@aol.com)


Akai

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to

Matthigh

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
>>It's going to occur to you one of these days, that no one around here
is going to work with you on this problem your having with Burned
furs, or any issue of importance. So technically, you are in the same
resulted situation as I was in 1996-97 when I asked for help against
two mucks.<<

>>Everyone has the suspicson your nuts, out for attenion, and possibly
just interested in flaming. So the best I can say, is that you better
just keep a low profile.<<

I'll be damned. Smart words from Matthew Milam. Guess it had to happen
sometime.

There are wisdom in the words above. I think many people here could learn alot
from what can happen if you scream and yell and froth at the mouth too much.
After a while it no longer matters if you are right or if you are wrong -
people just stop taking you seriously.

Sometimes discretion really is the best course of action.


Wanderer

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
Dear Stuka,

Swear words are the recourse of the unimaginative.

Yours briefly,

The distinctly-not-amused,

Wanderer**wand...@ticnet.com
Where am I going?I don't quite know.
What does it matter where people go?
Down to the woods where the bluebells grow.
Anywhere! Anywhere! *I*don't know!

Galen Wolffit

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
Matthew Milam (mmi...@interlync.com) wrote:
: >Matthew Milam (mmi...@interlync.com) wrote:
: >: Everyone has the suspicson your nuts, out for attenion, and possibly

: I'm not speaking for everyone, i'm stating from exprience, that and

Sure sounded like you were. I must have misunderstood your use of the word
"everyone". Please forgive me.

: the fact I usually don't take any of you completely seriously. And

That is your problem, not Xydexx's, nor is it cause for you to call him nuts,
or out for attention, or anything else.

: since I have the right to do what I want, the reply is worthless.

"All ll things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things
are lawful for me, but all things edify not." - 1 Corinthians 10:23 (KJV)

: Ah, never mind. You didn't read the bottom as I suspected.

It was the bottom that I was referring to.

--
Galen Wolffit, who prefurs quoting the NIV, but doesn't have it handy.
FCW[Wolffit]3adrw A-- C->+ D H++ M++++ P? R+ T W Z-
Sm# RLCT a23 cln++++$ e+ f->+ h-- h+>++ iw+++$ p* sm#

M. Mitchell Marmel

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to

Akai wrote:

> I blame Burned Fur for MST3K being cancelled. It's a conspiracy, y'know!

And I KNOW for a FACT that there was a Burned Fur on that grassy knoll...

-MMM-
BF

M. Mitchell Marmel

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to

Wanderer wrote:
>
> Dear Stuka,
>
> Swear words are the recourse of the unimaginative.

Fuckin' A.

-MMM-
BF

(hey, waitaminnit...D'OH!)

Farlo

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
"Richard Chandler - WA Resident" mau...@kendra.com wrote in
<990428223...@mauser.at.kendra.com>:

>In article <8DB6C1A...@news.fysh.org>, Farlo <stan...@abac.com>
writes:

>> Amendment: They ATTACK or DERIDE or IMPLY, and I snap at them.
>> You'll notice that I pick and choose.
>

>Fine, you snap. But what do you stand for? What IS your opinion? What
do
>you WANT to have in Furry Fandom?

Curious - months of flames and nobody's ever asked that before.

I stand for personal freedom of expression, particularly artistic
expression. I stand for the right of the individual to be an individual.
I stand for personal growth and the exercise of personal responsibility.

My opinion is that dragging other people down to build something up is
inherently a bad idea and doomed from the start.

I want furry fandom to have many diverse and wonderful people in it. I
want wonderful stories and beautiful art. I want everyone to feel
welcome, without crapping on anyone else.

Last, I want the BF to produce something positive instead of being the
main source of anxiety on this newsgroup.

StukaFox

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
Akai <ak...@teleport.com> wrote:

: I blame Burned Fur for MST3K being cancelled. It's a conspiracy, y'know!

Well, I guess that explains these little skin-tab things I've been
developing on my shoulders as of late.

Damn you, Burned Fur! DAMN YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ! ! ! ! !

StukaFox
I blame my 'rhoids on the other side.

StukaFox

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
Wanderer <wand...@ticnet.com> wrote:

: Dear Stuka,

: Swear words are the recourse of the unimaginative.


Dear Wanderer,


I am me -- warts and all.


StukaFox

Farlo

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
"Matthigh" wrote:

>I think many people here could learn alot
>from what can happen if you scream and yell and
>froth at the mouth too much.

Like the Burned Furs?

>After a while it no longer matters if you are right or if you are wrong -
>people just stop taking you seriously.

This argument goes only for those debating an issue.
We are way beyond "discussing" the BF and into the penalty phase.

>Sometimes discretion really is the best course of action.

It's been TRIED.
I killfiled them for weeks, and totally ignored their existence.
It solved NOTHING; when I emptied my filters, there they were -
like roaches scurrying for cover when the lights went on.

Xydexx Squeakypony

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
Farlo wrote:
> I stand for personal freedom of expression, particularly artistic
> expression. I stand for the right of the individual to be an individual.
> I stand for personal growth and the exercise of personal responsibility.
>
> My opinion is that dragging other people down to build something up is
> inherently a bad idea and doomed from the start.
>
> I want furry fandom to have many diverse and wonderful people in it. I
> want wonderful stories and beautiful art. I want everyone to feel
> welcome, without crapping on anyone else.

Well said. -:)

> Last, I want the BF to produce something positive instead of being the
> main source of anxiety on this newsgroup.

Okay, but things seem to be starting to settle down now. If either "side"
keeps trying to get the last word in, it isn't going to lessen the anxiety
here.

I'm willing to give BF a chance to produce something positive and see what
they come up with.

____________________________________________________________________
Xydexx Squeakypony [ICQ: 7569393]
http://www.smart.net/~xydexx/anthrofurry/homepage.htm

Hangdog

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
Akai wrote:

> StukaFox wrote:
>
> > Vixy <res...@here.please> wrote:
> >
> > : Just take a look at the original author of this thread. Is that a burned
> > : fur? Why yeeeesss, it is. Why blame someone for defending himself?
> >
> > Why blame Burned Fur for your flaming?
> >
> > StukaFox
> > Quid Pro Quo
>

> I blame Burned Fur for MST3K being cancelled. It's a conspiracy, y'know!

You see? Our Orbital Mind Control Lasers are working as planned!
Unfortunately Vixy has thwarted us by wearing that devastatingly chic
foil hat! Curses!

--Hangdog


Hangdog

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
"M. Mitchell Marmel" wrote:

> Akai wrote:
>
> > I blame Burned Fur for MST3K being cancelled. It's a conspiracy, y'know!
>

> And I KNOW for a FACT that there was a Burned Fur on that grassy knoll...

Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa would like to deny that...

--Hangdog, Burned Fur

Hangdog

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
"M. Mitchell Marmel" wrote:

> Wanderer wrote:
> >
> > Dear Stuka,
> >
> > Swear words are the recourse of the unimaginative.
>

> Fuckin' A.

No shit!

--Hangdog


Akai

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
Hangdog wrote:

So you're hiding them too, aren't ya? Typical! We could be dealing with a group
here that's a hundred times more evil than the Freemasons.

M. Mitchell Marmel

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to

Akai wrote:

> So you're hiding them too, aren't ya? Typical! We could be dealing with a group
> here that's a hundred times more evil than the Freemasons.

"Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do!
We do!"

-MMM-
BF

Forrest

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to

Hangdog <peter....@pdq.net> wrote in message
news:3728E1BC...@pdq.net...
> David Gonterman wrote:
>
> > As of right now, me and the MiSTing crowd is trying to patch things
> > up. I even did a MiSTing of--get this--the Burned Fur Manifesto!!
> > (And I'm a BF myself)
>
> Hm? Where? If it's any good, we gotta get that up on the website! :o)

I found it at:
http://foxfire.thewebunion.com/Studio/Nitro/Nitro_04.txt

Hangdog

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
David Gonterman wrote:

> As of right now, me and the MiSTing crowd is trying to patch things
> up. I even did a MiSTing of--get this--the Burned Fur Manifesto!!
> (And I'm a BF myself)

Hm? Where? If it's any good, we gotta get that up on the website! :o)

--Hangdog, Burned Fur


Hangdog

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to

Jim Groat wrote:

> :Akai wrote:
> :
> :> I blame Burned Fur for MST3K being cancelled. It's a conspiracy, y'know!

> :
> Burned Fur stole my hair...No wait...I have my hair...BURNED FUR Stole
> Gallacci's hair.

tO sTeVE gALacCi:

dRAw Us 4o PIctURes Of ErMa fELNa WIth a CrOwbAR oR yOU
wILL NEver sEE yOuR hAIr AgaIN.

BUrneD FuR


Forrest

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to

Farlo <stan...@abac.com> wrote :

> I stand for personal freedom of expression, particularly artistic
> expression. I stand for the right of the individual to be an individual.
> I stand for personal growth and the exercise of personal responsibility.
>
> My opinion is that dragging other people down to build something up is
> inherently a bad idea and doomed from the start.
>
> I want furry fandom to have many diverse and wonderful people in it. I
> want wonderful stories and beautiful art. I want everyone to feel
> welcome, without crapping on anyone else.
>

> Last, I want the BF to produce something positive instead of being the
> main source of anxiety on this newsgroup.

Hear hear!
I will see about working these points into M2, perhaps as a preamble.
--
Manifesto II: http://members.xoom.com/squirreltech

Jim Groat

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to

:Akai wrote:
:
:> I blame Burned Fur for MST3K being cancelled. It's a conspiracy, y'know!
:
Burned Fur stole my hair...No wait...I have my hair...BURNED FUR Stole
Gallacci's hair.

____________________________________________________________________________
Beware of naked bus drivers.

http:www.graphxpress.com/main

Remove the nospamplease before replying.

David Gonterman

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:58:03 -0700, Akai <ak...@teleport.com> wrote:

>StukaFox wrote:
>
>> Vixy <res...@here.please> wrote:
>>
>> : Just take a look at the original author of this thread. Is that a burned
>> : fur? Why yeeeesss, it is. Why blame someone for defending himself?
>>
>> Why blame Burned Fur for your flaming?
>>
>> StukaFox
>> Quid Pro Quo
>

>I blame Burned Fur for MST3K being cancelled. It's a conspiracy, y'know!


Pal, if there's anyone online that should be blamed for canceling
MST3K, it's David Diwight Gonterman

There was a MiSTing of one of my stories (Sailor Moon themed) that
gave me so many flames that I made threats--including real life
versions--of retaliation to anyone who MiSTed anything of mine any
again. Apparently Mike and Joel heard of this. (Is my ego too big
<smiles>)

Well, to be honest, they wouldn't say it was me, but I did blew up
Trenchcoat Mafia style for a MiSTing of a story which gave me more
grief--including multiple mail bombs and my web page being hacked
into--than any file that I made myself. And they claim that they're
not responsible. (Now I understand why those two poor bastards bombed
their school)

As of right now, me and the MiSTing crowd is trying to patch things
up. I even did a MiSTing of--get this--the Burned Fur Manifesto!!

(And I'm a BF myself) Although I still state that my stuff is off
the dib list, the smoking of the peace pipe is definitely going on all
around. It might take a while, but my personal healing is under way.

I'm rambling, and it's off the topic, so I'll shut up now. :/
David Gonterman-------...@netscape.net-----------------

FoxFire Studios--------http://foxfire.thewebunion.com---------------
FoxFire Comic Strip----http://foxfire.thewebunion.com/Comic_Strip---

If this Sig File is not included in the E-Letter, then this may
not have come from David himself, please inform your Server's sysadmin.


"He who demands for Tolerance the most, may in fact have it the least."

Forrest

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to

Jim Groat <elka...@mailbag.nospamplease.com> wrote :

> Burned Fur stole my hair...No wait...I have my hair...BURNED FUR Stole
> Gallacci's hair.


However, Burned Fur stole Jim Groat's mare.

("Oh my god, Red Shetland killed Eric Blumrich!")

Hangdog

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
Forrest wrote:

> Jim Groat <elka...@mailbag.nospamplease.com> wrote :
>
> > Burned Fur stole my hair...No wait...I have my hair...BURNED FUR Stole
> > Gallacci's hair.
>
> However, Burned Fur stole Jim Groat's mare.

Probably to make curry...I love curry...does your religion forbid it?

--Hangdog


Richard Chandler - WA Resident

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
In article <8DB751B...@news.fysh.org>, Farlo <stan...@abac.com> writes:
> I stand for personal freedom of expression, particularly
> artistic expression. I stand for the right of the individual to be
> an individual.
> I stand for personal growth and the exercise of personal responsibility.
>
> My opinion is that dragging other people down to build something up
> is inherently a bad idea and doomed from the start.

Okay, but do you see how some people that (not just) the Burned Furs are
annoyed about are already dragging people down, just taking some of the better
known problems like the Loaded interview?

> I want furry fandom to have many diverse and wonderful people in it.
> I want wonderful stories and beautiful art. I want everyone to
> feel welcome, without crapping on anyone else.

I'm perhaps not so welcoming. I too want wonderful stories and Beautiful art,
but there are some forms of diversity that are more distructive than the worth
of their contribution, if any.

> Last, I want the BF to produce something positive instead of being
> the main source of anxiety on this newsgroup.

I don't know if they are, but I do know that it takes two sides to have an
argument, and if you were to take yourself out of it, the flames would fade.
Think about what percentage of your posts in the last month or so were part of
some flamewar?


--
The greatest tragedy is that the same species that achieved space flight,
a cure for polio, and the transistor, is also featured nightly on COPS.
-- Richard Chandler
Spammer Warning: Washington State Law now provides civil penalties for UCE.


Farlo

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Apr 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/30/99
to
"Forrest" bct...@hotmail.com wrote in <7gaj0o$d47$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>:

>Hear hear!
>I will see about working these points into M2, perhaps as a preamble.
>--
>Manifesto II: http://members.xoom.com/squirreltech

Cool ... although I feel quite odd adding to a BF manifesto.

Dr. Cat

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Apr 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/30/99
to
Vixy (res...@here.please) wrote:
: goth_...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <7g7ubk$t5c$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
: > c...@bga.com (Dr. Cat) wrote:
: >> Aw c'mon, Farlo, get tired of it already. Everybody else is. :X)
: >
: >Amen to that, Dr. Cat.
: But when will it end?

What did Dr. Manhattan say in the Watchmen comic? "It doesn't end.
Nothing ever ends."

Seriously, though, we'd probably see even less of it if you'd make up
your mind to be too tired of it to continue as well. Everybody that
decided to give it up helps, no matter which side they're on. How
much it helps depends more on how loud they were than on whether they
were "right" or "wrong" or like that there.

*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*

(Disclaimer: In most of the recent arguments, I don't think *either* side
has been "right", I think they're both wrong. So there, nyah!)

Cerulean

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Apr 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/30/99
to

>Manifesto II: http://members.xoom.com/squirreltech

I've gone and read this, and I think it is worth recognizing as a
movement of its own. If we refer to the people who follow this tract
as representatives of "BF2" or "M2", and they likewise refer to
themselves that way, it will help to distinguish them from the
exclusionists and witch-hunters, and the "New Burned Fur" can gain
recognition as a positive force for all of us.

I would like to see a new signatory page attached to this "Manifesto
II" once it is finalized, so that everyone can see who prefers the "I
want this to be a fandom for everyone to enjoy" version and who still
prefers the "push out the hacks and pervs" version. The exclusionists
will no longer be able to maintain the illusion that they are legion.

Everybody's been "burned" by something or another in this fandom (a
lot us by the BF1). I am by nature not a club-joiner, but if it is
made clear that signing your name to the new manifesto does not imply
support of the earlier documents of fire and brimstone, then I would
probably add my name to it.

The slogan "Assume Nothing" greatly appeals to me.

--
___vvz /( Cerulean * http://www.cerulean.st/
<__,` Z / ( DC.D/? fs+h++ Gm CB^P a$m++d+++l*g-e!i
`~~~) )Z) ( FDDmp4adwsA+++$C+D+HM+P-RT+++WZSm#
/ (7 ( ma7aq-,,sa6e) Ja6uoJ+S pue s77eM Ja77eL,,

Akai

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Apr 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/30/99