Genesis Eve Cook.
Andrew Greene
Well, it's two months past, and Genesis Eve Cook won't accept my E-mail.
She continues to owe me a simple nametag, and refuses to even offer
excuses. Now, I understand that artists are human beings, and have to
work, and all, but she's owed me this 3x5 card since 1995, during which
time, plenty of other people have gotten their artwork. There are artists
who have owed me artwork I've paid for for just as long, but they have at
least offered me reasons (Moving, job, etc), and haven't simply cut off
all communications.
Raven
Andrew Greene (bl...@netaxs.com) wrote:
: Well, it's two months past, and Genesis Eve Cook won't accept my E-mail.
Last I heard she was infact moving from one coast to the other. I've
lost track of where I saw it posted. Perhaps on her web-page somewhere.
Or here in a.f.f. I tried to get in touch with her as well to thank her
for a piece she did for me last year at Duckon5. (I'm known to her as 'some
guy named Raven' and I got the drawing she did, just bearly...
Anyway, look around for her web-page or elsewhere to see if she is back
or how long it is expected for her to be gone.
P.S. No I have no idea off the top of my head what the URL is for her page.
-Raven
Andrew Greene
Er, you don't understand - she hasn't been moving for two years, and her
e-mail address is fine, she's just refusing MY E-mail. She simply doesn't
want to provide me with the artwork I paid for, for some reason. If she
wants to explain why, let her. I might even accept her reasoning. BTW,
Glad to hear you got your artwork. You obviously didn't make the mistake
of paying her in advance.
Andrew Thompson
Andrew Greene (bl...@netaxs.com) wrote:
: Er, you don't understand - she hasn't been moving for two years, and her
: e-mail address is fine, she's just refusing MY E-mail. She simply doesn't
: want to provide me with the artwork I paid for, for some reason. If she
: wants to explain why, let her. I might even accept her reasoning. BTW,
: Glad to hear you got your artwork. You obviously didn't make the mistake
: of paying her in advance.
Against my better judgement, I asked her about this. She told me you
didn't pay her a single penny for it.
JPR
Robert Powell
Hello, I would like to contact Genesis Eve Cook in reguards of a
sketchbook of mine.
My e-mail address is rppo...@ea.oac.uci.edu
-Rob
Gensiscook
Andrew Greene (bl...@netaxs.com) wrote:
>Er, you don't understand - she hasn't been moving for two years, and her
>e-mail address is fine, she's just refusing MY E-mail. She simply
doesn't
>want to provide me with the artwork I paid for, for some reason. If she
>wants to explain why, let her. I might even accept her reasoning. BTW,
>Glad to hear you got your artwork. You obviously didn't make the mistake
>of paying her in advance.
Oh... by the way, I have in fact, moved TWICE in the past two years.
Two years ago I was living in Oklahoma city, then I moved to Jersey,
and then I moved to Orlando, and now I'm making plans to move again
with my fiance' to start attending art school.
I will gladly explain why I'm blocking you from any e-mail. It got
EXTREMELY irritating whenever my fiance' or my local friends got
onto furrymuck and constantly had to deal with people saying
"You know.. we're getting sick and tired of listening to Blaze whine
about his badge", and had my e-mail box stuffed with these selfsame
people's messages. even at CF I had to deal with them. THAT, in
my opinion, is bordering on harassment. I could not socialize with
my friends, read my e-mail, go to cons, and now.. read my newsgroups
without having to hear from you. Despite my "nice" reputation,
I do not like to be pushed. And the more I get pushed the less likley
I am to do what you're trying to push me to do. Had you simply
decided to wait, you'd probably have your badge by now. All
my other customers have their commissions or have been given
messages as to why they don't and constant updates as to when
they'll get them.
Tell ya what, Blaze. If you want that plastic shooting target crow
back so badly, then you should go up to Newark and dig around
in the landfill up there.. because that's where it probably is by now.
Your bird never made it out of the con, it dissapeared from my table
(presumably stolen) on the very day you gave it to me. If you doubt
my story, ask my business partner, Jason Jensen, as well.
I'd be happy to replace it, but you see.. I have this problem: you claim
that this plastic bird was worth "in excess of $20"... and all the ones
I've
found at wal-mart and sporting goods stored are only about $4-$7 each.
Obviously these COULDN'T be the same ones... simply cheap plastic
replicas of your cheap plastic bird. (and also *NOT* worth the $10 I
charge for a name badge.) But as SOON as I find a black plastic
shooting target crow for "in excess of $20" I'll be sure and buy it and
mail it
your way. I'll even include the sales reciept. If you'd also like me
simply purchase one of these cheaper models, I'll be happy to... but I'll
expect you to pay for postage.
Meanwhile.. feel free to continue slandering me in public. So far the
attention's netted me a new fan and a potential comissioner. Your smear
tacticts didn't work on Jim Groat, nor Lia Graf, and they got you banned
from furrymuck for a month when you tried using them against your
ex-roomate. I'd have thought you'd have learned from your mistakes
by now.
-Genesis Eve Cook
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.madcoyote.com/gen Grinning Gryphon Graphics!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genesis Eve Cook | Artwork appears in Huzzah!,
P.O. Box 2501 | FNC, Gallery, and PawPrints.
Goldenrod, FL 32733 | Prints and portfolios available!
==========================================
Unsolicited commercial e-mail including surveys will be charged $100 for
proofreading services. Sending me such constitutes acceptance of this policy.
M. Mitchell Marmel
Gensiscook wrote:
(snip)
> Meanwhile.. feel free to continue slandering me in public. So far the
> attention's netted me a new fan and a potential comissioner.
You go, girl! :)
-MMM-
Andrew Greene
Well, it's cute, Conrad, but she accepted the decoy (It happened to be in
my trunk) , if I remember correctly, Gen has this thing for big feathery
wings, and that's why she wanted it. So if she had little or no
interestin it, why'd she agree to do a nametag in exchange for one? Do
you think it's acceptable to accept payment for something, and then
renege? The price is inconsequental. Value was given with the
expectation of value in return.
On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Conrad Wong wrote:
> In article <Pine.SUN.3.95.970416...@unix2.netaxs.com>,
> Andrew Greene <bl...@netaxs.com> wrote:
> >AcuSport catalog 27A, page 656, lists the Carry-Lite decoys large black
> >crows as packed as six units for $157.75 suggested retail. That's item
> >5650. That's $26.30 each. Less twenty percent discount, just over $21.
>
> Perhaps Genesis has little or no interest in crow decoys of any kind?
>
> I don't know about Genesis Cook, but I wouldn't generally accept barter
> in lieu of cash at conventions for sketches, in particular if it weren't
> an item that I wanted. In particular, if someone wanted to attempt
> barter, I'd probably prefer it if they arranged it in advance, to avoid
> embarrassment and loss of time on both sides. It would keep them from
> toting around black crow decoys in the expectation that I might consider
> them equivalent to usefully spendable US currency.
>
> Smiley-faces attached as appropriate, of course. Somehow the image of
> someone walking around with black crow decoys under his arm and little
> price tags on them strikes me as rather amewsyng. };)
>
> -- Lynx (the ky00t one)
> --
> | __|\ | Conrad "Lynx" Wong | Upstart feline miscreant |
> | ._| _ : | 101 First Street, suite 554 | LY Go B Y++ L++ C++++ T++ A-- |
> | ( ' | Los Altos Hills, CA 94022 | H+ S++ V+ F- Q+ PP+ B PA+ PL+++ |
> | -' ;". |----------------------------------------------------------------|
> | ; "' ; | PawPrints: http://www.best.com/~lynx/pawprints.html |
> | , |Anything not nailed down is a cat toy, anything the cat can pry |
> | *purrrrrr* |up with a crow bar is not nailed down, anything that IS nailed |
> | |down is a scratching post. And anything edible is food -- Revar|
>
>
Chris Whalen
Gensiscook wrote:
> Tell ya what, Blaze. If you want that plastic shooting target crow
> back so badly, <snip>
> I'd be happy to replace it, but you see.. I have this problem: you claim
> that this plastic bird was worth "in excess of $20"... and all the ones
> I've
> found at wal-mart and sporting goods stored are only about $4-$7 each.
> Obviously these COULDN'T be the same ones... simply cheap plastic
> replicas of your cheap plastic bird. (and also *NOT* worth the $10 I
> charge for a name badge.) But as SOON as I find a black plastic
> shooting target crow for "in excess of $20" I'll be sure and buy it and
> mail it
> your way. I'll even include the sales reciept.
For Pete's sake, a check or cash for the value of the name badge would
do. No need to try to find a plastic crow somewhere. Then he won't have
an angle anymore to grind his ax on. :) (The barter makes the crow worth
as much as the badge -- who cares if the crow originally cost $7 or $21
or $50?)
-- Chris
Lisa Jennings
In article <19970416185...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
gensi...@aol.com (Gensiscook) wrote:
> Oh... by the way, I have in fact, moved TWICE in the past two years.
> Two years ago I was living in Oklahoma city, then I moved to Jersey,
> and then I moved to Orlando, and now I'm making plans to move again
> with my fiance' to start attending art school.
Say, where's he gonna be going to? The infamous Cal Arts maybe? :3
******************************************************************************
ermine
(aka Micole The Ermine, Lisa Jennings, femfur artist etc.)
home email: <khr...@inorbit.com>
******************************************************************************
(As the ermine deftly steps around the vitrol and moves the conversation to
something more interesting...)
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Lisa Jennings
In article <3355E2...@prof.slh.wisc.edu>,
Chris Whalen <c...@prof.slh.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
> Gensiscook wrote:
*snip*
> > I'd be happy to replace it, but you see.. I have this problem: you claim
> > that this plastic bird was worth "in excess of $20"... and all the ones
> > I've
> > found at wal-mart and sporting goods stored are only about $4-$7 each.
> > Obviously these COULDN'T be the same ones... simply cheap plastic
> > replicas of your cheap plastic bird. (and also *NOT* worth the $10 I
> > charge for a name badge.) But as SOON as I find a black plastic
> > shooting target crow for "in excess of $20" I'll be sure and buy it and
> > mail it
> > your way. I'll even include the sales reciept.
>
> For Pete's sake, a check or cash for the value of the name badge would
> do. No need to try to find a plastic crow somewhere. Then he won't have
> an angle anymore to grind his ax on. :) (The barter makes the crow worth
> as much as the badge -- who cares if the crow originally cost $7 or $21
> or $50?)
Actually, that's not true, Chris. Barter is a contract like anything
else: if they had agreed on the price of the allegedly $20 crow as being
worth the price of the $10 badge, then that is the contract. If it turns
out that the crow was *not* worth the $20, then Blaze dealt in poor
faith. If the item *was* worth $20 but Genesis had not agreed upon the
item as _valid payment_, then Blaze must come up with an acceptable
substitute. So if Blaze just left the item behind (as a gift or just
forgot it), Genesis has no reason to return it.
But all that is part of the miscommunications that can happen with
commissions and there was no need for Blaze to drag it public view to try
and embarrass Genesis. All it's apparently done (in my opinion) is piss
all us other lurking artists off at his behavior.
******************************************************************************
ermine
(aka Micole The Ermine, Lisa Jennings, femfur artist at large, etc.)
home email: <khr...@inorbit.com>
******************************************************************************
In God we Trust: all others pay cash.
Jack Furlong - HillBluffer
In article <8612812...@dejanews.com>,
Lisa Jennings <jenn...@toysrus.com> wrote:
>But all that is part of the miscommunications that can happen with
>commissions and there was no need for Blaze to drag it public view to try
>and embarrass Genesis. All it's apparently done (in my opinion) is piss
>all us other lurking artists off at his behavior.
And told us _who_ to avoid, in the future...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jack Furlong - Artist/MUCKer Details @ http://www.netcom.com/~jfurlong
"Dont take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive!" - Bugs Bunny
Andrew Greene
That's true. A check for $10 would be fine, if very, very late. After
all, I doubt she'd do that good a job on my nametag at this point.
On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Chris Whalen wrote:
> Gensiscook wrote:
>
> > Tell ya what, Blaze. If you want that plastic shooting target crow
> > back so badly, <snip>
> > I'd be happy to replace it, but you see.. I have this problem: you claim
> > that this plastic bird was worth "in excess of $20"... and all the ones
> > I've
> > found at wal-mart and sporting goods stored are only about $4-$7 each.
> > Obviously these COULDN'T be the same ones... simply cheap plastic
> > replicas of your cheap plastic bird. (and also *NOT* worth the $10 I
> > charge for a name badge.) But as SOON as I find a black plastic
> > shooting target crow for "in excess of $20" I'll be sure and buy it and
> > mail it
> > your way. I'll even include the sales reciept.
>
> For Pete's sake, a check or cash for the value of the name badge would
> do. No need to try to find a plastic crow somewhere. Then he won't have
> an angle anymore to grind his ax on. :) (The barter makes the crow worth
> as much as the badge -- who cares if the crow originally cost $7 or $21
> or $50?)
>
> -- Chris
>
>
Andrew Greene
On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Chris Whalen wrote:
>> Lisa Jennings wrote:
> I see you took a Business Law course too. I should've pulled out my
> textbook and refreshed my memory on barters. :) I assumed in this case
> that the transaction met the barter criteria.
>
> > But all that is part of the miscommunications that can happen with
> > commissions and there was no need for Blaze to drag it public view to try
> > and embarrass Genesis. All it's apparently done (in my opinion) is piss
> > all us other lurking artists off at his behavior.
>
> A problem like this is the reason why I don't do commissions. I'm not
> that desperate for the meager income from art. ;)
>
> Hm...I just received an email from Andrew Greene...I should know better
> than to stick my nose into flame threads. :P <flees for the hills>
>
> -- Chris
>
>
Oh, horror of horrors, I wrote him EMAIL! It was probably just chock-full
of threats and four-letter words, right? Nope. I asked him what HE
would have done in this situation. Seems reasonable, considering he seems
to think I had other options. How about it folks. What SHOULD I have
done? Let's see which artists say I should have forgotten about it and
allowed Gen to keep her ill-gotten gains.
WitchCat 1
At the rate things are going in FURdom, I'm gonna play it safe and become
a graphic designer. Least ways that way, I'll be able to eat regular.
WC
Andrew Greene
*shrug*. Gen decided she wanted the crow, and that it was a suitable
trade for a nametag, Lisa. She's already said in her own messages that
she accepted the decoy in exchange for a nametag. But the decoy and it's
value aren't any part of my complaint. My complaint is the way I've been
treated by a person who contracted with me. I'm sorry if the lurking
artists are offended; I've never had an artist do anything like this to me
before. Any of you lurking artists who would take a fan's money or
property, then cut off all communications with them for two years, then
come up with poor excuses for breaking your contract, please identify
yourself, so I can be certain to not give you any business.
Gen also tried to drag politics into this, claiming that I've slandered
Jim Groat and Tygger. This is, of course, untrue, but her purpose was to
divert attention from her own act. It's not the act of someone who's in
the right.
In closing, why are people trying to rationalize her behavior in
attacks on me? This is a problem of ethics, whether a customer deserves
what they contract for. I bartered (paid) for a piece of artwork. At
first I got promises, then I got silence. It's not like I sent a piece of
e-mail every day, every week, or every month. I sent nine E-mails in two
years. I asked a few people to contact Gen about my commission. If two
or three people asked her at a con, and she had to deal with nine E-mails,
and this somehow ruined her life, well, perhaps her life was a little
cracked to begin with.
On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Lisa Jennings wrote:
> In article <3355E2...@prof.slh.wisc.edu>,
> Chris Whalen <c...@prof.slh.wisc.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Gensiscook wrote:
> *snip*
> > > I'd be happy to replace it, but you see.. I have this problem: you claim
> > > that this plastic bird was worth "in excess of $20"... and all the ones
> > > I've
> > > found at wal-mart and sporting goods stored are only about $4-$7 each.
> > > Obviously these COULDN'T be the same ones... simply cheap plastic
> > > replicas of your cheap plastic bird. (and also *NOT* worth the $10 I
> > > charge for a name badge.) But as SOON as I find a black plastic
> > > shooting target crow for "in excess of $20" I'll be sure and buy it and
> > > mail it
> > > your way. I'll even include the sales reciept.
> >
> > For Pete's sake, a check or cash for the value of the name badge would
> > do. No need to try to find a plastic crow somewhere. Then he won't have
> > an angle anymore to grind his ax on. :) (The barter makes the crow worth
> > as much as the badge -- who cares if the crow originally cost $7 or $21
> > or $50?)
>
> Actually, that's not true, Chris. Barter is a contract like anything
> else: if they had agreed on the price of the allegedly $20 crow as being
> worth the price of the $10 badge, then that is the contract. If it turns
> out that the crow was *not* worth the $20, then Blaze dealt in poor
> faith. If the item *was* worth $20 but Genesis had not agreed upon the
> item as _valid payment_, then Blaze must come up with an acceptable
> substitute. So if Blaze just left the item behind (as a gift or just
> forgot it), Genesis has no reason to return it.
>
> But all that is part of the miscommunications that can happen with
> commissions and there was no need for Blaze to drag it public view to try
> and embarrass Genesis. All it's apparently done (in my opinion) is piss
> all us other lurking artists off at his behavior.
>
Chris Whalen
Lisa Jennings wrote:
>
> Actually, that's not true, Chris. Barter is a contract like anything
> else: if they had agreed on the price of the allegedly $20 crow as being
> worth the price of the $10 badge, then that is the contract. If it turns
> out that the crow was *not* worth the $20, then Blaze dealt in poor
> faith. If the item *was* worth $20 but Genesis had not agreed upon the
> item as _valid payment_, then Blaze must come up with an acceptable
> substitute. So if Blaze just left the item behind (as a gift or just
> forgot it), Genesis has no reason to return it.
I see you took a Business Law course too. I should've pulled out my
textbook and refreshed my memory on barters. :) I assumed in this case
that the transaction met the barter criteria.
> But all that is part of the miscommunications that can happen with
> commissions and there was no need for Blaze to drag it public view to try
> and embarrass Genesis. All it's apparently done (in my opinion) is piss
> all us other lurking artists off at his behavior.
A problem like this is the reason why I don't do commissions. I'm not
Jack Furlong - HillBluffer
In article <33567A...@prof.slh.wisc.edu>,
Chris Whalen <c...@prof.slh.wisc.edu> wrote:
>Hm...I just received an email from Andrew Greene...I should know better
>than to stick my nose into flame threads. :P <flees for the hills>
Join the club, I just got two of em!... :P
*runs off right after you!*
Lisa Jennings
> >
> > Actually, that's not true, Chris. Barter is a contract like anything
> > else: if they had agreed on the price of the allegedly $20 crow as being
> > worth the price of the $10 badge, then that is the contract. If it turns
> > out that the crow was *not* worth the $20, then Blaze dealt in poor
> > faith. If the item *was* worth $20 but Genesis had not agreed upon the
> > item as _valid payment_, then Blaze must come up with an acceptable
> > substitute. So if Blaze just left the item behind (as a gift or just
> > forgot it), Genesis has no reason to return it.
>
> I see you took a Business Law course too. I should've pulled out my
> textbook and refreshed my memory on barters. :) I assumed in this case
> that the transaction met the barter criteria.
Actually, I remember that from Small Business Management... and Wolf's
got the Business Law course under his belt that I can resource from as
well. :3
The problem is that if I am piecing all this together, the criteria was
_not_ met. It sounds like Blaze noticed Genesis' interest in the plastic
crow and left it for her as payment _without stating this to her_.
Otherwise I'd think she would've put the crow away instead of leaving on
the table, which it then got lifted from. When Blaze demanded the crow
back (assuming that he was thinking that he was asking for his 'payment'
back for goods not received) Genesis, (who assumed he meant the crow as
either a gift or forgot it at her table and now wants it back) who is
basicly an honest person, offers to replace it -- only the value he
claims and the value she's finding don't balance out.
Like I said, it sounds like a classic case of miscommunication.
> Hm...I just received an email from Andrew Greene...I should know better
> than to stick my nose into flame threads. :P <flees for the hills>
Actually, I got one from him too... alas, my home ISP has _no_ newsfeed,
so I replied to him without posting the reply here as well... I'll try
and forward the message to my work address and then post it here on
Monday. Unless, of course, Mr. Green posts it instead.
*******************************************************************************
ermine
(aka Micole the Ermine, Lisa Jennings, femfur artist at large...)
home email: <khr...@inorbit.com>
*******************************************************************************
Never hear of how mean and viscious a weasel can get? One word: WOLVERINE
jar...@snowfox.fur.com
In article <Pine.SUN.3.95.97041...@unix2.netaxs.com>,
Andrew Greene <bl...@netaxs.com> wrote:
*snip*
> How about it folks. What SHOULD I have
> done? Let's see which artists say I should have forgotten about it and
> allowed Gen to keep her ill-gotten gains.
You should have first: Asked for the pigeon back. It even would
have been fair to ask that the artist pay for postage. Once it became
obvious that that would be impossible, you should have negotiated with
the artist to agree what the pigeon was worth in cash; In this case, your
agreement with the artist showed that both of you had agreed that the
worth of the bird was the same as a badge, hence $10.
Note: If you did indeed represent a $4-8 dollar item as being
worth $20 in the trade negotions, you negotiated in poor faith. If that
were the case, then the artist would be well within his or her rights
to simply cancel any further dealings. I, however, would be willing
to take you on your word that when you purchased the item, it was for
the price you say you paid for it. I've seen you be loud, obnoxious,
self righteous, arrogant and vindictive; I've never witnessed you
being dishonest. :)
One thing you *SHOULD NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES* have done is
pester the artist's friends/relations regarding the badge. Never. Not
even a single page on FM. In my not-so-humble opinion, you lost a
lot of your 'rights' to compensation right there. It's not their job to
act as courier/messenger/agent. Hmmm. Although, since they were forced
to act in that capacity by your questions, perhaps Genesis and co.
should charge you for it. Around $10 sounds fair. There, you're even. :)
Hmmm...Maybe I could add that to my contract: Add $1.00 to the
bill any time the customer asks *anyone* other then me, personally, how
work is going on a comission...
Nah, book-keeping would be a hassle.
In all seriousness, Blaze...What you should have done is gone directly
to the artist and asked for the item traded or equal value in cash back
in return. From what Genesis wrote, it sounds like the artist felt that
you had misrepresented the value of the item in the original
negotiations. You should have negotiated from there to find what both of
you considered a fair settlement.
I'm prolly going to get flamed for this, but I also think that if the
above procedure didn't work, then you *should* have posted to newsgroups
and kept people informed. But do try and give all the information, rather
then just the information you think will make you look good.
-- Jareth
Lisa Jennings
> A problem like this is the reason why I don't do commissions. I'm not
> that desperate for the meager income from art. ;)
*ahem*
I take commissions, but I also hold a full-time job, thank you. Most
artists don't try to make a _living_ from their art -- folks like Jim
Groat, Tygger, and Reed Waller are the unusual folks. Heck, even Reed's
got a full-time job now.
When I was 7, a friend of my mom saw me drawing and was talking to me in
that stupid falsetto grownups seem to use around kids.
She questioned me, "So are you gonna be an artist when you grow up?"
"No!" I said.
"Why not?" She asked, rather taken back at my response.
My reply? "Artists starve. I don't wanna starve."
from the mouths of babes...
******************************************************************************
ermine
(aka Micole the Ermine, Lisa Jennings, femfur artist at large)
home email: <khr...@inorbit.com>
******************************************************************************
(Fact is, I am an artist, but not as a profession. I'm doing computers, which is
what I've wanted to do all along.)
Andrew Greene
On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Lisa Jennings wrote
>
Lisa, this is a fine piece of detective work, unfortunately, it's wrong.
Genesis said she would do a nametag in exchange for the decoy, after
seeing it. At which time I handed it to her, she took my address, asked
what I wanted on my nametag, etc. As for what she did with it after she
had it, I'm not responsible for Gen's actions. You are also incorrect
that I demanded the decoy back. All I ever did was demand my commission.
The only reason I posted the value of the decoy (With catalog reference, I
might add), was because I was being accused, for some bizarre reason of
not giving value for value recieved. Pete Stollar did a nice commission
for me in exchange for a pair of welding glasses. He didn't ask what they
cost, he just decided they were worth doing a commission to get. Mercy
Van Vlack, however, who has done a number of freebies for me, I give GIFTS
to. Not in expectation of getting more pictures, but because I like her,
can hang out with her at cons, etc. She's never mistaken a gift for a
payment, and I doubt Speet, or any of the other artists I've done trades
with, have mistaken my payments for gifts. I recently traded one artist
who will go unnamed, three gun-related books, an autobiography, a bayonet,
and a geiger counter for several commissions and a stack of his prints.
The artist in question picked and chose from a long list of items I had
for trade. Say, Lisa, I gave you a gift at PhilCON, remember? Remember
what it was? Could you tell it from a payment? Could you tell the money
I gave you for a copy of the Other Suns galleys from a gift?
> The problem is that if I am piecing all this together, the criteria was
> _not_ met. It sounds like Blaze noticed Genesis' interest in the plastic
> crow and left it for her as payment _without stating this to her_.
> Otherwise I'd think she would've put the crow away instead of leaving on
> the table, which it then got lifted from. When Blaze demanded the crow
> back (assuming that he was thinking that he was asking for his 'payment'
> back for goods not received) Genesis, (who assumed he meant the crow as
> either a gift or forgot it at her table and now wants it back) who is
> basicly an honest person, offers to replace it -- only the value he
> claims and the value she's finding don't balance out.
>
> Like I said, it sounds like a classic case of miscommunication.
>
> > Hm...I just received an email from Andrew Greene...I should know better
> > than to stick my nose into flame threads. :P <flees for the hills>
>
> Actually, I got one from him too... alas, my home ISP has _no_ newsfeed,
> so I replied to him without posting the reply here as well... I'll try
> and forward the message to my work address and then post it here on
> Monday. Unless, of course, Mr. Green posts it instead.
>
> *******************************************************************************
> ermine
> (aka Micole the Ermine, Lisa Jennings, femfur artist at large...)
> home email: <khr...@inorbit.com>
> *******************************************************************************
> Never hear of how mean and viscious a weasel can get? One word: WOLVERINE
>
Jack Furlong - HillBluffer
In article <8613896...@dejanews.com>,
Lisa Jennings <jenn...@toysrus.com> wrote:
>She questioned me, "So are you gonna be an artist when you grow up?"
>"No!" I said.
>"Why not?" She asked, rather taken back at my response.
>My reply? "Artists starve. I don't wanna starve."
>from the mouths of babes...
*laughs!*
Too true, too true, especially for an
artist at _my_ skill level. ;)
Database Programming pays _MUCH_ better than
artwork, that's for certain.
Andrew Greene
Well, I'll accept this reply as containing a smily at the end. First of
all, she accepted it and at that time she was responsible for it. If it
was stolen, she should have said something about it, rather than hiding
the fact for over two years. And, of course, even if I'd given her a
check, the check would have gone stale (become unnegotiable as an
instrument), a year after it's issue date. And the issuer is not
responsible for a check gone stale unless it's reported prior to the date.
And before someone jumps on me for this not being 'law', I believe it's
part of the UCC. I could be wrong, it could just be bank policy. Of
course, that doesn't matter, because Wanderer's argument is rediculus in
the first place.
On 17 Apr 1997, Wanderer wrote:
> Andrew Greene <bl...@netaxs.com> wrote in article
> <Pine.SUN.3.95.970416...@unix2.netaxs.com>...
> >
> > Well, it's cute, Conrad, but she accepted the decoy (It happened to be in
> > my trunk) , if I remember correctly, Gen has this thing for big feathery
> > wings, and that's why she wanted it. So if she had little or no
> > interestin it, why'd she agree to do a nametag in exchange for one? Do
> > you think it's acceptable to accept payment for something, and then
> > renege? The price is inconsequental. Value was given with the
> > expectation of value in return.
> >
> In that case, as your payment was stolen before it could be deposited, you
> might wish to reissue it. You'd do the same for cash, check or credit,
> wouldn't you? And if she cannot receive payment, I fail to see how she can
> justify spending time on what would essentially be pro bono work. If she
> wishes to donate, she will locate a charity.:> (On the plus side, the
> thief obviously agrees with the two of you as to the piece's value.:)
>
> So, if you could inform the company that one of your Carry-Lite crow decoys
> was stolen (and, if you have the right credit card and are within the time
> limit, get it replaced), you could then send it parcel post to Genesis, who
> would thus be remunerated, and could thus finish your commission with a
> clear conscience and a fair balance on the books.
>
> And before you ask, yes, a payment of mine was stolen once, and yes, I
> reissued it.
>
> Yours with a calculator brain,;)
>
> The calculating,:>
>
> Wanderer****************'Where am I going?I don't quite know.
> ****************************'What does it matter where people go?
> wand...@why.net'*****Down to the woods where the bluebells grow.
> wand...@whytel.com'*Anywhere!Anywhere!Idon't know!
>
>
Jim Groat
In article <Pine.SUN.3.95.970416...@unix2.netaxs.com>,
Andrew Greene <bl...@netaxs.com> wrote:
(massive snip for sake of us all)
:AcuSport catalog 27A, page 656, lists the Carry-Lite decoys large black
:crows as packed as six units for $157.75 suggested retail. That's item
:5650. That's $26.30 each. Less twenty percent discount, just over $21.
You just answered a serious question...SUGGESTED RETAIL....which means
those damn birds sell around for less than $16 in stores....Gander
Mountain here in Wisconson, A major sporting goods store in the Tristate
area, sells those crows for $13.95 each and are currently on sale for
$10.95. And are cheap pieces of shit.
You pulled this same shit with me with a book you paid $3.00 for USED and
tried to convince me you paid $30. It didn't work with me, I caught your
old price and gave you more than fair price for it.. You are notorious for
this, always claiming something is worth a shitload when its worth shit.
$10 .45ACP mags for $25...$5.00 clay bird throwers for $15,
Ect...ect..ect.
Checking
:Deja News, I've found three posts of yours where you say that nametags at
:cons cost $5. Your website says $10. I ordered it at a con. Regardless,
:you agreed to supply a nametag in exchange for one of the best crow decoys
:on the market, and not a 'cheap, plastic crow target'. They're far too
:nice to shoot at. In fact, they're so realistic, they are sold for
:ATTRACTING crows.
Uh huh...best my ass...I've seen alot better. for under $20. Besides.
Prices go up with artists as well.
:> Meanwhile.. feel free to continue slandering me in public. So far the
:> attention's netted me a new fan and a potential comissioner. Your smear
:> tacticts didn't work on Jim Groat, nor Lia Graf, and they got you banned
:> from furrymuck for a month when you tried using them against your
:> ex-roomate. I'd have thought you'd have learned from your mistakes
:> by now.
:
:Ooh, here's the fun ones! I haven't attempted to smear Tygs OR Groat, and
:if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to hear or see it. As for
:my ex-roommate, you seem to have forgotten that we were BOTH banned for a
:month, me and him, and it had nothing at all to do what we were saying
:about eachother. Besides which, we've since made up, so don't go causing
:trouble.
No, you just remained a whiney assed pain in the ass. You claimed I
threatened you at Philcon in a room full of fans to others...Funny how
nobody seems to have heard me say that and wonder when you got off your
medication. And don't deny you didn't say this, I've heard it from enough
folks in the Philly area. If I threaten. I say it STRAIGHT to your face.
As far as you and your Ex-roommate making up...well for once you got you
act together. Then again I can see why he's you Ex-roommate.
: I'm just a disgruntled ( I love that word) customer, who made a deal with
:an artist, an exchange of something of mine, for a simple nametag. Here it
:is two years later, and I've yet to see it. And altho you've made some
:fine attacks in your post, you've failed to answer the question of why you
:didn't supply what you agreed to. Oh, and if it's netted you another
:customer, great. I can only hope he gets what he orders.
:
:I don't understand what is so complicated about the idea that, when
:someone gives her word, she should be expected to keep it. You tried to
:turn this around and attack me, Gen, but it's you that owe me, and not
:vice-versa
No. you just make yourself look like an Idiot on AFF. It could have been
delt in different means.It's not like you paid cash or wrote a check out.
Chances are you aquired the crow for next to nothing anyway. Besides, you
threw the opening shot!
Personally I hope Gen does finish that badge, but with her upcoming
marriage, you may have to wait a bit longer. Then she can be done with
you...period.
:
:
:Andrew Greene, not an artist, nor a Christian.
Are we attacking the fact that Gen is marrying a priest now?
Do I sound like I'm pissed at you Andrew? You bet I am, especially with
you attacking Gen.
Jim Groat
_____________________________________________________________________
Beware of naked bus drivers.
http://www.graphxpress.com/main.html
http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/1551
Vadim
Lisa Jennings <jenn...@toysrus.com> wrote in article
<8613885...@dejanews.com>...
>
> In article <33567A...@prof.slh.wisc.edu>,
> Chris Whalen <c...@prof.slh.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Like I said, it sounds like a classic case of miscommunication.
All this discussion just serves to remind me why I never accept payment
for commissions until the work is ready to ship.
margaret
http://www.erols.com/sollaris/
Vadim
Lisa Jennings <jenn...@toysrus.com> wrote in article
>
> In article <33567A...@prof.slh.wisc.edu>,
> Chris Whalen <c...@prof.slh.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
> > A problem like this is the reason why I don't do commissions. I'm not
> > that desperate for the meager income from art. ;)
>
> *ahem*
>
> I take commissions, but I also hold a full-time job, thank you. Most
> artists don't try to make a _living_ from their art --
Amen to that. Commissions are nice for a little boost, but they hardly
put food on the table. If an artist still lives at home and has the time to
take a huge amount of commissions, than maybe they could squeak by, but I
think most of us will have our day jobs for quite a while
>
> My reply? "Artists starve. I don't wanna starve."
<G> Smart kid weren't ya'?
margaret
http://www.erols.com/sollaris/
Aimee Major
So who in here are artists/animators?
(really!)
:) Angela
(just a few more months till CalArts Bwhahaha!)
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2416/
Karena Kliefoth
Ha hah! Poor thing...
-Karena
Angela
> >So who in here are artists/animators?
> >(really!)
> > :) Angela
> >(just a few more months till CalArts Bwhahaha!)
> >http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2416/
>
> Ha hah! Poor thing...
> -Karena
hmmm? Do you know something I don't?
OH, and there is SOOOoooOOO much furry art lying around... could someone
point me towards the better stuff?
:D Angela
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2416/main.html
Wanderer
> In article <19970416185...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> gensi...@aol.com (Gensiscook) wrote:
>
> > Oh... by the way, I have in fact, moved TWICE in the past two years.
> > Two years ago I was living in Oklahoma city, then I moved to Jersey,
> > and then I moved to Orlando, and now I'm making plans to move again
> > with my fiance' to start attending art school.
>
> Say, where's he gonna be going to? The infamous Cal Arts maybe? :3
>
balloons ... Popped Arts.;>
(For those who don't get it, say it faster.:)
Yours truly,
The punny,
Wanderer
>
> Well, I'll accept this reply as containing a smily at the end. First of
> all, she accepted it and at that time she was responsible for it. If it
> was stolen, she should have said something about it, rather than hiding
> the fact for over two years. And, of course, even if I'd given her a
> check, the check would have gone stale (become unnegotiable as an
> instrument), a year after it's issue date. And the issuer is not
> responsible for a check gone stale unless it's reported prior to the
date.
> And before someone jumps on me for this not being 'law', I believe it's
> part of the UCC. I could be wrong, it could just be bank policy. Of
> course, that doesn't matter, because Wanderer's argument is rediculus in
> the first place.
>
As I was unaware of the amount of time which had passed, I was being quite
serious. Still, after two years, that credit guarantee would've run out
anyway.
Ridiculous, I assume you mean? Hardly. The payment was stolen before it
could be deposited. Seems pretty cut-and-dried from here. Anyway, you've
expressed in another branch of this particular thread that you would settle
for a check in the amount of a ten-dollar refund ... so this is an
immaterial discussion, anyway.:)
Yours truly,
The fair-minded,
Jack Furlong - HillBluffer
In article <335836...@charleston.net>,
Aimee Major <maj...@charleston.net> wrote:
>So who in here are artists/animators?
>(really!)
> :) Angela
>(just a few more months till CalArts Bwhahaha!)
>http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2416/
*waves*
One of the many 'fan' artists here...
Take a look at
http://www.best.com/~rizzo/artists.html
for a comprehensive list.
Chris Baird
elka...@mailbag.com (Jim Groat) writes:
[...]
Sorry, but this thread is actually small enough that you can follow
both sides of the story.
--
Chris
Andrew Greene
Unfortunately, I haven't been offered a refund, or my commission, just a
lot of personal attacks. And just how do you deposit a crow decoy,
anyway? :)
Dr. Cat
Wanderer (wand...@why.net) wrote:
: In that case, as your payment was stolen before it could be deposited, you
: might wish to reissue it. You'd do the same for cash, check or credit,
: wouldn't you? And if she cannot receive payment, I fail to see how she can
: justify spending time on what would essentially be pro bono work.
: And before you ask, yes, a payment of mine was stolen once, and yes, I
: reissued it.
Well, maybe in a purrrfect world, where everyone was extremely polite at
every opportunity, every time a payment was stolen we'd see a Chip and
Dale style argument, with both sides wanting to feel like they should be
the one to suffer the loss:
Customer: "Here, let me pay you again, there is no reason an artist
should have to do work for free!"
Artist: "No no, the moment I accepted your money I took on a moral
obligation to provide you with a piece of art in return. If someone
stole my watch or my pens or some money someone else gave me I would
certainly still have that obligation... The detail that what was stolen
happened to be the payment from you is irrelevant, it wasn't your fault
and I still owe you the art."
Customer: "But I insist! I don't mind at all, I think your art is so
good it's easily worth twice the extremely generous rate you offered it
to me at, and I make plenty of money as a plumbing supplies salesman and
am always happy to spend more of it to support promising young furry
artists 'cause we don't have enough of them and they don't make as much
money as they deserve. No really, please take it, it would make me
unhappy to think of you doing the work and not ending up with anything
for it, whereas if you took this check I would feel better about it so
you'd really be doing me a favor."
Well, we can't count on people to be that nice to each other in the real
world. A few do, most don't. There's an interesting point about this
notion, though... If only one of the two sides of a potential
disagreement will live up to those high standards, you get no arguing.
You don't need both people to do it, just one. Kinda like the FidoNET
rules of "Thou shalt not be too annoying" and "Thou shalt not be too
easily annoyed" - the redundancy means even if someone breaks one side
of the rules, if the other person follows the other side you're still
covered.
In the cases where neither side is willing to cut the other side
endless, eternal slack, and the case has to "go to Judge Wopner" so to
speak... Which seems to be the case here... Well my guess is that if
you're walking to the New Temptation ice cream parlor with five bucks,
intending to buy the new Sooper Dooper Triple Banana Split, and thirty
seconds before you get to the counter some kid grabs your five bucks and
runs away, Judge Wopner is gonna say tough luck customer, you had five
bucks stolen but the ice cream parlor don't owe you jack, it was your
problem and your loss. But if you you got to the counter and said
"here's five bucks, give me one Sooper Dooper Triple Banana Split" and
the critter at the counter takes it and says "Ok, can do!" and then
thirty seconds later that same kid runs in and grabs the five dollar
bill outa the cash register and beats feet out the door, well I would
think Judge Wopner would say tough luck store owner, you were robbed of
five bucks but that doesn't change your obligation to your customer. He
paid you for a yummy sundae and you still owe him one. That kid only
stole some of your cash from you, he didn't steal away your obligations
to your customers along with it.
But hey, I am not a lawyer, so maybe I am, like, totally wrong on this.
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimers (multiple): Real ice cream stores usually won't take your
five dollars until AFTER they give you the Sooper Dooper Triple Banana
Split. They do this because they want to avoid ending up in exactly the
same sort of argument Gen and Blaze are having right now. They saw this
kinda argument happen when the first furry artist offered to do a cave
painting as a comission and this happened, so they know enough to avoid
these headaches for themselves. I wrote "I am not a lawyer" instead of
the popular Usenet abbreviation IANAL, because netters only use that for
two reasons. 1) So non-members of the "Usenet cult" won't understand
what they are talking about and will go away, and 2) Because they have
some strange kinky fixiation on the word "anal". Since furry fandom is
not about sex and alt.fan.furry is not about sex, I won't go into that
in any further detail. But I did want non-cult-members to know what I
meant so I said the whole phrase. Banana splits can be had for far less
than 5 dollars in most towns, though maybe not Triple Sooper ones.
Judge Wopner doesn't actually try cases any more. Bananas or no
bananas, real court or the "simulation" (cough cough) on People's Court,
he is retired. And lastly, if you want to stick bananas in your ears, I
recommend you do NOT get them from a banana split. They don't have the
protective yellow covering on any more, so they're all soft and mooshy,
plus they'll have ice cream and syrup and stuff adhering to them that
will get your ears all sticky! And, um, if you *like* to get your ears
all sticky please don't talk about it on this newsgroup, as I'm fairly
sure somebody would throw some kinda fit and we don't need that. :X)
Lisa Jennings
In article <335836...@charleston.net>,
maj...@charleston.net wrote:
>
> So who in here are artists/animators?
> (really!)
> :) Angela
> (just a few more months till CalArts Bwhahaha!)
Well, I am... I did a big chunk of the computer animation on Inherit The
Earth.
I never got the chance to go to CalArts, or any other art college for
that matter, though... my mom thought the scholarships were all a scam
and ripped them up.
******************************************************************************
ermine
(aka Micole the Ermine, Lisa Jennings, illustrator, pixel animal handler,
animator, and pixel pusher.)
home email: <khr...@inorbit.com>
******************************************************************************
Lisa Jennings
In article <3358FC...@charleston.net>,
maj...@charleston.net wrote:
>
> > >So who in here are artists/animators?
> > >(really!)
> > > :) Angela
> > >(just a few more months till CalArts Bwhahaha!)
> >
> > Ha hah! Poor thing...
> > -Karena
>
> hmmm? Do you know something I don't?
You mean you haven't heard that 70% of CalArts students go mad after the
first year? (The remain 30% were mad to begin with...) :3
Oh, and I hope you don't have much desires for a social life, the campus
is out in bumfuk nowhere in spite of being in LA county.
> OH, and there is SOOOoooOOO much furry art lying around... could someone
> point me towards the better stuff?
Try The Furry Image Index at http://www.yiffco.com/fci/index.html
or The Velan Central Library at http://tau-ceti.isc-br.com/furry.html
It's a definite start, and both have mirrors to my FTP site. :3
(Hey, I finally remember the _URLs_! Wheee!)
******************************************************************************
ermine
(aka Micole The Ermine, Lisa Jennings, femfur artist at large)
Jack Furlong - HillBluffer
In article <8616357...@dejanews.com>,
Lisa Jennings <jenn...@toysrus.com> wrote:
>(Hey, I finally remember the _URLs_! Wheee!)
< Jeff Foxworthy Voice >
You might be a net junky if:
Web Addresses are as easy to remember street addresses...
</ Jeff Foxworthy Voice >
*chuckle*
Angela
Karena wrote:
> Nope, you're wrong about that. We're surrounded by yuppie subdivisions
> as far as the eye can see. And Magic Mountain (Six Flags) is right
> down the street, practically. Right up the street new restaurants are
> popping up like mushrooms after a rain. And there are still coyotes,
> foxes, skunks, opossums, raccoons, hawks and owls around. And a cougar
> was killed here in Valencia a month ago or so. So we've got the
> wildlife and the yuppies. Not to mention tons o' freaky art students.
Hey!! Does that mean you're going to Calarts? I would love to figure
out how it is up there...I've got a few months..and shoot, I live 3,000
miles away from CA, so I have no idea really! (humor me!)
:) Angela
Karena Kliefoth
On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:21:23 -0600, Lisa Jennings
<jenn...@toysrus.com> wrote:
>You mean you haven't heard that 70% of CalArts students go mad after the
>first year? (The remain 30% were mad to begin with...) :3
Yep we're all mad here! Mad, I tell you! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
>Oh, and I hope you don't have much desires for a social life, the campus
>is out in bumfuk nowhere in spite of being in LA county.
Nope, you're wrong about that. We're surrounded by yuppie subdivisions
as far as the eye can see. And Magic Mountain (Six Flags) is right
down the street, practically. Right up the street new restaurants are
popping up like mushrooms after a rain. And there are still coyotes,
foxes, skunks, opossums, raccoons, hawks and owls around. And a cougar
was killed here in Valencia a month ago or so. So we've got the
wildlife and the yuppies. Not to mention tons o' freaky art students.
-Karena
Angela
>
> Well, I am... I did a big chunk of the computer animation on Inherit The
> Earth.
WOOO! :)
> I never got the chance to go to CalArts, or any other art college for
> that matter, though... my mom thought the scholarships were all a scam
> and ripped them up.
Interesting parent! I just got my financial stuff from them today...
*looks suspiciously at her mother*
> > hmmm? Do you know something I don't?
>
> You mean you haven't heard that 70% of CalArts students go mad after the
> first year? (The remain 30% were mad to begin with...) :3
> Oh, and I hope you don't have much desires for a social life, the campus
> is out in bumfuk nowhere in spite of being in LA county.
Oh, I'm already crazy and have no social life so... what the heck?
*shrugs*
I figure most animation types are crazy anyway. ;D
> Try The Furry Image Index at http://www.yiffco.com/fci/index.html
> or The Velan Central Library at http://tau-ceti.isc-br.com/furry.html
> It's a definite start, and both have mirrors to my FTP site. :3
Thanx! I'm just like...rather overwhelmed by the volume and... volume
of stuff not worth looking at. Oh well! Dive in I suppose!
Angela
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2416/
Steve Gattuso
Lisa Jennings wrote:
> Oh, and I hope you don't have much desires for a social life, the
> campus is out in bumfuk nowhere in spite of being in LA county.
It has one small advantage. It's right near Six Flags Magic Mountain.
And there's also some very nice camping not too far a drive from the
area. The area near the campus is being built up rather nicely, too. My
surprise is that more animation companies aren't setting up near the
campus where the land is cheap. Nothing like a ready made workforce at
your doorstep to help the profit margin. =};-3
Daphne Lage
Uhm... since my newsfeed is very flaky, I've only been able to get bits and
pieces of this thread, but stop me if I'm wrong...
1) "Blaze" gives Gen a plastic crow in exchange for a con badge.
2) Blaze waits a year to contact Gen about it.
3) Any attempt at contact is blocked on Gen's part.
4) After various postings on a.f.f. by Blaze, Gen finally responds.
5) Gen explains that the crow went missing after the exchange was made.
6) Gen talks about replacing the crow but that it's not worth the $20.00
Blaze is claiming the crow is worth.
7) Chaos ensues.
Okay, here's my 2 cents.
Gen owes Blaze the con badge because she agreed to give him a con badge in
exchange for the crow. The fact that the crow "went missing" after the
agreement was made is not Blaze's responsibility. Gen still owes him a
badge because the agreement was made. The fact that no one can agree on the
price of the crow is irrelevant. The crow is worth the price of the con
badge. It doesn't matter if the crow is worth $10.00 or $20.00 or whether
Blaze bought the crow for $2.00. Nothing changes the fact that the crow was
agreed to be worth the price of the con badge. A trade is a trade.
Gen, just do the badge and get it over with.
Blaze, stop trading with artists unless you get the deal in WRITING. That
way, if anything goes wrong, you have their signature on a *contract*
essentially. Either that, only trade with artists you know will give you
the art right away or at least at the show. Or, you can just pay in cash or
check and not worry about trades at all.
*sigh* It just gets more complicated, eh folks?
Me personally, I love trades. I feel trading makes it easier to get stuff
on both sides of the deal. I was constantly trading for stuff at
ConFurence, mostly trading my stuff for Japanese manga and anime art books.
I don't care *what* you paid for something... if I WANT it, that's all I
need to know. ;)
BTW... I'm going to be a Duckon, so if anyone wants to trade manga and
anime books for artwork or stuff, talk to me and we'll finalize the deal at
the show.
--Daphne Lage
egor...@intercall.com
****************************************************************
Specializing in fantasy art, erotica, comic book illustration
and graphic design - Free catalog available.
http://www.intercall.com/~egoraven/
****************************************************************
"The only thing you can change is yourself,
but sometimes that changes everything." - Anonymous
****************************************************************
Angela
> > Thanx! I'm just like...rather overwhelmed by the volume and... volume
> > of stuff not worth looking at. Oh well! Dive in I suppose!
>
> Actually, the Velan Central Archive is divided by artist, so you can pick
> an artist, check a few samples, and if uninterested move to the next one.
yeah... but there's a buttload of artists! Oh well. ;>
> And if you find an artist whose style you like, ask around and folks can
> steer you to other folks with a similar one. Are there any artists you
> already like whom folks can help you out with?
Well, I was looking at Tygger's work, and some others, just trying to
get aquainted really. OH, I did a lil cheata-chick (if the server she's
on is working.. but there's some other ones there too), would some of
ya'll check it out an tell me what you think?
:) Angela
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2416/
Steve Gattuso
Angela wrote:
> I figure most animation types are crazy anyway. ;D
If you ever get to go to the Animation celebration in Pasadena, you
discover that they're not all crazy. Some of them are psycho. =};-3
> Thanx! I'm just like...rather overwhelmed by the volume and... volume
> of stuff not worth looking at. Oh well! Dive in I suppose!
Actually, the Velan Central Archive is divided by artist, so you can pick
an artist, check a few samples, and if uninterested move to the next one.
Andrew Greene
I'll reply to this one piece by piece, too :)
On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Jim Groat wrote:
> In article <Pine.SUN.3.95.970416...@unix2.netaxs.com>,
> Andrew Greene <bl...@netaxs.com> wrote:
>
> (massive snip for sake of us all)
>
> :AcuSport catalog 27A, page 656, lists the Carry-Lite decoys large black
> :crows as packed as six units for $157.75 suggested retail. That's item
> :5650. That's $26.30 each. Less twenty percent discount, just over $21.
>
> You just answered a serious question...SUGGESTED RETAIL....which means
> those damn birds sell around for less than $16 in stores....Gander
> Mountain here in Wisconson, A major sporting goods store in the Tristate
> area, sells those crows for $13.95 each and are currently on sale for
> $10.95. And are cheap pieces of shit.
And the 'Suggested Retail' of Gen's nametags, is $10. But, it appears,
sometimes that's reduced to the price of a crow decoy.
> You pulled this same shit with me with a book you paid $3.00 for USED and
> tried to convince me you paid $30. It didn't work with me, I caught your
> old price and gave you more than fair price for it.. You are notorious for
> this, always claiming something is worth a shitload when its worth shit.
> $10 .45ACP mags for $25...$5.00 clay bird throwers for $15,
> Ect...ect..ect.
I have never offered a clay bird thrower to anyone, as far as I remember.
Can't remember. As for $10 .45 ACP mags for $30, The one I offered you
was a Springfield Armory stainless steel 8-round magazine with a bumper
pad. They go for a bit more than $10, altho, yes, you can get them for
under $30 these days. Magazines are commodity items, their price
fluctuates. Awhile back, AR-15 magazines were running $18 each. I am
currently getting them for $6 each. As for selling used books for more
than they cost the buyer, there are stores in every city that sell used
books for more than they buy them for. Someone has to take the time to
find the books, and keep them until the right buyer comes along. You
don't sell your comic books for what they cost you to make, do you? To
you, the book was worth what you were worth to pay for it, and to me, the
book was worth what I was willing to sell it for.
> Checking
> :Deja News, I've found three posts of yours where you say that nametags at
> :cons cost $5. Your website says $10. I ordered it at a con. Regardless,
> :you agreed to supply a nametag in exchange for one of the best crow decoys
> :on the market, and not a 'cheap, plastic crow target'. They're far too
> :nice to shoot at. In fact, they're so realistic, they are sold for
> :ATTRACTING crows.
>
> Uh huh...best my ass...I've seen alot better. for under $20. Besides.
> Prices go up with artists as well.
Perhaps you can. But you're making a strawman out of my crow ( a funny
concept). The fact is, that the crow was worth a commission, otherwise
Gen shouldn't have agreed to do the commission in exchange for it.
> :> Meanwhile.. feel free to continue slandering me in public. So far the
> :> attention's netted me a new fan and a potential comissioner. Your smear
> :> tacticts didn't work on Jim Groat, nor Lia Graf, and they got you banned
> :> from furrymuck for a month when you tried using them against your
> :> ex-roomate. I'd have thought you'd have learned from your mistakes
> :> by now.
> :
> :Ooh, here's the fun ones! I haven't attempted to smear Tygs OR Groat, and
> :if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to hear or see it. As for
> :my ex-roommate, you seem to have forgotten that we were BOTH banned for a
> :month, me and him, and it had nothing at all to do what we were saying
> :about eachother. Besides which, we've since made up, so don't go causing
> :trouble.
>
> No, you just remained a whiney assed pain in the ass. You claimed I
> threatened you at Philcon in a room full of fans to others...Funny how
> nobody seems to have heard me say that and wonder when you got off your
> medication. And don't deny you didn't say this, I've heard it from enough
> folks in the Philly area. If I threaten. I say it STRAIGHT to your face.
Mmm-hmm. And, after requesting information privately from one of the
furries involved, I decided I mistook your shouting, threatening posture,
and bluster for a threat, despite the fact that two of the furries present
remembered you threatening me, too. I have not been telling people you
threatened me. On the other hand, I remember you telling a complete
stranger (to you), that Blaze was telling people that you were Gay, that
Blaze wanted to marry Karno, that Blaze said he wanted to sleep with you.
The fact that you didn't know the person was one of my characters only
makes it funnier. Of course, I DIDN'T say any of those things. Oh, and
you called me a disturbing person. I cut the picture out of Gallery and
made a button from it. I'm thinking of cutting up an issue of Skunk, and
wearing the nice picture of you that Colin Upton drew. You looked just
like that at PhilCON. As for doing things to people's face, you DID tell
one of my characters on FurryMUCK all sorts of nasty stuff about my real
life self, before you knew he was me. And, it seems to me that Trish Ny
wasn't present when you were telling folks about HER. :) Ok. You
threaten people to their faces, but you gossip about them wherever you
like.
> As far as you and your Ex-roommate making up...well for once you got you
> act together. Then again I can see why he's you Ex-roommate.
Can you? I doubt it. But I won't go into that. Why dredge up the past
hurt in a relationship?
>
> : I'm just a disgruntled ( I love that word) customer, who made a deal with
> :an artist, an exchange of something of mine, for a simple nametag. Here it
> :is two years later, and I've yet to see it. And altho you've made some
> :fine attacks in your post, you've failed to answer the question of why you
> :didn't supply what you agreed to. Oh, and if it's netted you another
> :customer, great. I can only hope he gets what he orders.
> :
> :I don't understand what is so complicated about the idea that, when
> :someone gives her word, she should be expected to keep it. You tried to
> :turn this around and attack me, Gen, but it's you that owe me, and not
> :vice-versa
> No. you just make yourself look like an Idiot on AFF. It could have been
> delt in different means.It's not like you paid cash or wrote a check out.
> Chances are you aquired the crow for next to nothing anyway. Besides, you
> threw the opening shot!
>
> Personally I hope Gen does finish that badge, but with her upcoming
> marriage, you may have to wait a bit longer. Then she can be done with
> you...period.
I'll wait. I have the proverbial patience of a saint, altho it's a
Buddhist saint.
As for making myself look like an idiot, I was cheated, and I decided
that, much as I would have in any of the for sale newsgroups I frequent, I
reported a bad trader.
> :
> :Andrew Greene, not an artist, nor a Christian.
>
> Are we attacking the fact that Gen is marrying a priest now?
No, we're lampooning the posts in which Gen told all of us how harassed
Christians were in this newsgroup, and how they were really tolerant,
moral, ethical people. I think she may eventually come up with the
nametag. I hope it's good. I plan on showing it around a lot when I get
it.
>
> Do I sound like I'm pissed at you Andrew? You bet I am, especially with
> you attacking Gen.
Oh, you've sounded more pissed at me in the past. Like, when you were
telling me how much you hate me on FurryMUCK. Of course, you weren't
saying it directly to my face, you were saying it to a character you
didn't know was mine. So, you always say it to someone's face, huh?
*pbtthhhht!
Jack Furlong - HillBluffer
In article <mharpold-210...@benjamin.zipcon.net>,
"Matt Harpold" <mhar...@zipcon.net> wrote:
>In article <335836...@charleston.net>, Aimee Major
><maj...@charleston.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>So who in here are artists/animators?
>>(really!)
>> :) Angela
>>(just a few more months till CalArts Bwhahaha!)
>
>You'll grow to take a full night's sleep as a rare luxury once
>you start art school, trust me.
If you ever start MUCKing, you might regard a full night's
sleep as an impossibility... ;)
Steve Addlesee
Daphne Lage wrote:
> Gen owes Blaze the con badge because she agreed to give him a con badge in
> exchange for the crow. The fact that the crow "went missing" after the
> agreement was made is not Blaze's responsibility. Gen still owes him a
> badge because the agreement was made. The fact that no one can agree on the
> price of the crow is irrelevant. The crow is worth the price of the con
> badge. It doesn't matter if the crow is worth $10.00 or $20.00 or whether
> Blaze bought the crow for $2.00. Nothing changes the fact that the crow was
> agreed to be worth the price of the con badge. A trade is a trade.
>
> Gen, just do the badge and get it over with.
>
> Blaze, stop trading with artists unless you get the deal in WRITING. That
> way, if anything goes wrong, you have their signature on a *contract*
> essentially. Either that, only trade with artists you know will give you
> the art right away or at least at the show. Or, you can just pay in cash or
> check and not worry about trades at all.
>
> *sigh* It just gets more complicated, eh folks?
Daphne, you did great. I tip my tam to you.
Steven R. Addlesee AKA Tam Man
carc...@fia.net
Tlalocelotl Tlatoque
> If you ever start MUCKing, you might regard a full night's
> sleep as an impossibility... ;)
Zzzzz *snort*
Wise words...
And whatever you do don't go to FurryMUCK and spend hours and hours
online like I do it's to much fun! Sleep is so much more valuabvel :)
F.Y.I. I play Napoleon_Davis there.
=^_^=
Tlalocelotl Tlatoque
Author Genetrix: Red Krewe, kick ass furry book...
A four page preview is availabel inside "Gravitywell Graphique" free for
download at Gravitywell Productions,
http://www.bayside.net/users/genetrix/
the full book will also be free
Jack Furlong - HillBluffer
In article <335EED...@sprintmail.com>,
Tlalocelotl Tlatoque <redk...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>> If you ever start MUCKing, you might regard a full night's
>> sleep as an impossibility... ;)
>
>Zzzzz *snort*
>Wise words...
>And whatever you do don't go to FurryMUCK and spend hours and hours
>online like I do it's to much fun! Sleep is so much more valuabvel :)
*laughs!*
Heck, I used to go "waffle-face" on FM all the time,
when I was at it 7 hours a night, 7 days a week.
Nothing like waking up at 2am, with a screenfull
of "are you still there?"s staring at you... ;)
Lisa Jennings
In article <335436...@primenet.com>,
Steve Gattuso <Pdoo...@primenet.com> wrote:
>
> Lisa Jennings wrote:
>
> > Oh, and I hope you don't have much desires for a social life, the
> > campus is out in bumfuk nowhere in spite of being in LA county.
>
> It has one small advantage. It's right near Six Flags Magic Mountain.
> And there's also some very nice camping not too far a drive from the
> area. The area near the campus is being built up rather nicely, too. My
Yea, but it's still a bit of a drive from LA proper and Vallejo is still
hotter than points south.
> surprise is that more animation companies aren't setting up near the
> campus where the land is cheap. Nothing like a ready made workforce at
> your doorstep to help the profit margin. =};-3
I suspect that most animation houses still believe they need to be
physically close to Burbank and Century City for some odd reason... like
wanna-be actors coming to Hollywood to be noticed. Maybe the Inoformation
Age will eventually shift this perspective. :3
******************************************************************************
ermine
(aka Micole the Ermine, Lisa Jennings, perennial peanut-gallery patron)
home email: <khr...@inorbit.com>
*******************************************************************************
Christopher V. Berdoz
klie...@muse.calarts.edu (Karena Kliefoth) writes:
>On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:21:23 -0600, Lisa Jennings
><jenn...@toysrus.com> wrote:
>>You mean you haven't heard that 70% of CalArts students go mad after the
>>first year? (The remain 30% were mad to begin with...) :3
>Yep we're all mad here! Mad, I tell you! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
>Nope, you're wrong about that. We're surrounded by yuppie subdivisions
>as far as the eye can see. And Magic Mountain (Six Flags) is right
>down the street, practically. Right up the street new restaurants are
>popping up like mushrooms after a rain. And there are still coyotes,
>foxes, skunks, opossums, raccoons, hawks and owls around. And a cougar
>was killed here in Valencia a month ago or so. So we've got the
>wildlife and the yuppies. Not to mention tons o' freaky art students.
Cool! How much does it cost to go to
CalArts and how hard is it to get into?
Yeah, I'm in art school now, VCU in virginia. Big graphic design and
sculpture school. But don't let that fool you, I don't draw, do
graphic design, or build sculpture, I just do cartoons and the
occasional video production. Lots of freaky art and/or
english students here, too (the girls are especially attractive), in
the middle of crime-ridden Richmond, Virginia.
If any of you are interested, I'd recommend VCU art school in a
hearbeat. The study here is unfocused, very conceptual, and freeing.
If you want to do art, but not sure exactly what you want to do, and
want to be exposed to every different and weird type of arts out
there, then this is the place. This is also the only school this part
of the country with a Film/Photography major. Since it is also a
large city University, there are lots of academic courses to choose
electives from. It's a very difficult school, but lots of fun,
and you learn so much cool stuff. I believe my money was very well
spent, and I'm even prepared (I think) for a real job in my major
(we'll find out soon).
But anyone out there wanting to learn how to draw thinking of going to
art school (such as VCU), give me an email and I'll give my advice.
WitchCat 1
Cal Arts students are insane? Heh, sounds like they had a run in with
Quark Xpress!!
Angela
WitchCat 1 wrote:
>
> Cal Arts students are insane? Heh, sounds like they had a run in with
> Quark Xpress!!
insane? where?
:) Angela *eheh*