I'm Leaving The Fandom! (Pay Attention To Me!)

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Xydexx The Silly Squeaky Pony

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Jan 27, 2004, 3:11:34 PM1/27/04
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Do you know why people feel the need to say they're leaving the
fandom?

It's because then all the other people who've "left" (but are
_still_here_!) will give them the attention they want.

Actually, I don't know. That's just a (probably pretty accurate)
guess.

Maybe they just don't have the courage to admit when they're wrong?
They keep saying how furry fandom is such a horrible place, yet the
fandom continues to grow every year. They bemoan the "decline of the
fandom" even though they haven't attended a furry con in half a
decade; meanwhile, everyone else is busy going to cons and creating
stuff and having a good time. Eventually, they have no choice but to
warn us of some mythical Hiroshima Cluehammer that's going to destroy
the fandom once and for all, and try to convince everyone to turn tail
and run away.

"Away! To the hills! Only the strong will survive!! Who's with me???"

Except most people in this fandom are too busy going to cons and
creating stuff and having a good time to notice. And years later,
they're still going to cons and creating stuff and having a good time,
because the mythical Hiroshima Cluehammer never showed up. (Or,
wait---maybe it did and we were all too busy having a good time to
notice! Oh no! We missed it!)

Either way, everyone's having a good time. Well, everyone except the
guy who said he was leaving. He's still hanging around and wondering
why everyone else is enjoying themselves.

And now, a Public Service Message:

HOW COULD A TRAGEDY LIKE THIS HAVE BEEN PREVENTED?

Xydexx's Theory Of Fandom Enjoyability states if you hang around with
a bunch of people who go around saying how much furry fandom sucks,
you will eventually start to believe it's true. So, like, don't do
it. Those people are spending all their time looking for things to
complain about so they can say "See! Furry fandom does suck!", and
then they won't have to admit they're wrong, or worse, do something
more productive with their time than seeking out things to complain
about (like, y'know, creating something _they_ like instead of
complaining about things _other_ people like).

Instead, go find someone who likes the fandom who shares your
interests (unless you're only interested in looking for things to
complain about, in which case none of what I'm saying will work for
you) and hang out with them. Don't be shy. Most folks in the fandom
are pretty friendly, except for a few grumpy folks who only want to
hang around with other grumpy folks. Go bounce ideas off each other
and Do Something. Draw some art. Publish a zine. Write! Create!
Build! Explore! Dream! Soon, you'll have all the attention you ever
wanted without the messy counterproductive psychodrama or
pointlessness of "leaving the fandom."

--
______________________________________________________________________
Karl Xydexx Jorgensen http://www.xydexx.com
Xydexx Squeakypony http://xydexx.livejournal.com
"Stranger things have happened. I'll probably get blamed for them."

Don Sanders

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Jan 27, 2004, 6:49:26 PM1/27/04
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In article <24feb113.04012...@posting.google.com>,
xyd...@aol.com says...

*** Some meaningful stuff snipped, not bad, definitely a saver, but
this is a cut to the chase moment. ***


>
> Instead, go find someone who likes the fandom who shares your
> interests (unless you're only interested in looking for things to
> complain about, in which case none of what I'm saying will work for
> you) and hang out with them.

Done that, oh lord how I've done that. Met quite a few folks on the
way, got to know them, shared some interests, but you know, odd
thing, have them read a newsgroup that spews so much venom now and
then and their attitudes change. Not to say yours is an idea that is
not worthy of consideration, but when it becomes a uphill battle just
to maintain some civility, well you get the point. (oops, no pun
intended, or else a certain wolf will pun his way in here, not that
it's a bad thing. :) )

> Don't be shy. Most folks in the fandom
> are pretty friendly, except for a few grumpy folks who only want to
> hang around with other grumpy folks. Go bounce ideas off each other
> and Do Something.


> Draw some art. Publish a zine. Write! Create!
> Build! Explore! Dream!

A lot of the Naysayers gripe about badly drawn art, been there, done
that, nearly lost the love for it. As for zines, well, I more or
less equate that to web comics now and you remember the big flap that
happened not too long ago about that. You write, you create, you
build, you try and play an active role in a genre only to find it is
not as easy as you think, more so more obstacles than any other
genre. With a glut of creative talent and an equal amount of those
working their way towards that goal, it is easy to fall into a
mentality where you see no use in doing anything. Dream??? There are
enough folks out there who will stand on their soapbox and tell you
in your face that what they perceive that you dream is what actually
happens. Sorry, I more or less reserve my dreaming to myself until I
can find a like mind or two who would not mind hearing a tale or two,
or an idea for that matter.

> Soon, you'll have all the attention you ever
> wanted without the messy counterproductive psychodrama or
> pointlessness of "leaving the fandom."

It seems like a paradox of sorts. A few years ago, attention would
have been good, now I see two different stories brewing, one side
says the craving of attention is just the idle rambles of a drama
queen, while the other side screeches "Art Ghod!" Torn, yet firm in
my convictions. I say let them yell from the highest hill that they
are leaving the fandom, or that they have already left and is just
visiting to see how far gone the genre is. I'll just sit here in fan
mode, nodding my head, rolling my eyes and wondering how things will
be in another few years.

Please note Squeaky one, I'm not finding fault in what you said, I'm
just too tired and shell shocked to see it apply to me.

Peace.

--
Don Sanders.

Wanderer

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Jan 27, 2004, 8:53:05 PM1/27/04
to
"Don Sanders" <noo...@myemail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a80c30f...@news.critter.net...

<snip>

> > Instead, go find someone who likes the fandom who shares your
> > interests (unless you're only interested in looking for things to
> > complain about, in which case none of what I'm saying will work for
> > you) and hang out with them.
>
> Done that, oh lord how I've done that. Met quite a few folks on the
> way, got to know them, shared some interests, but you know, odd
> thing, have them read a newsgroup that spews so much venom now and
> then and their attitudes change. Not to say yours is an idea that is
> not worthy of consideration, but when it becomes a uphill battle just
> to maintain some civility, well you get the point. (oops, no pun
> intended, or else a certain wolf will pun his way in here, not that
> it's a bad thing. :) )
>

<snip>

Speaking as a Southerner, war is never civil.:> (Although Xydexx might
enjoy a pop-ulist uprising...;)

Truthfully, it's never easy to remain civil. We call them graces advisedly,
because they make life better and a bit easier. It's part of the reason I
edit myself three times before I post... and every single time, I ask
myself, "Do I really want to say this?" We're a community, and while there
is unity in there, it's only because of comm-on interests that we comm here
at all... so comm-on in!:> But we are all individuals, and individuals will
disagree. Some will be noisy about it, some quiet, but it happens.

Still, nothing lasts forever. We're not the Morlocks and Eloi, but just a
community divided and united in many ways. Fursonally, I have things in
common with fursuiters, writers, art lovers, actors, and other wolves. But
not all A is B, not all A is C, not all B is C, and so on and so forth. All
disagreements end, if only because the bone of contention has long since
decayed into a fossil.

Yes, people leave sometimes. If they really need to leave, then let them
go... it's their choice to make. But I always hope that they'll stay, and
many have.

Oh, and I'm glad you don't mind the puns... I'd hate to get Dsandblasted
over them.:>

Yours with a parting touch of the quip,

(I'm the majority quip, you know!;)

The wolfish,

Wanderer
wand...@ticnet.com

"Where am I going? I don't quite know.
What does it matter *where* people go?
Down to the woods where the bluebells grow!
Anywhere! Anywhere! *I* don't know!"
-- a. a. milne


The Saprophyte

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Jan 27, 2004, 11:48:16 PM1/27/04
to

Wanderer wrote:
(snip)


>
> Still, nothing lasts forever. We're not the Morlocks and Eloi, but just a
> community divided and united in many ways.


Good thing too. If we were, who would be eating who? Think about it,
the hideous, parasitic morlocks were the descendants of the downtrodden
workers, and who fits that profile best in the fandom? Likewise, the
beautiful and innocent Eloi became what they were through exploiting
the labor of the workers. Now who does that sound like?

--
The Saprophyte
--

William Earl Haskell

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Jan 28, 2004, 1:08:35 AM1/28/04
to
Xydexx The Silly Squeaky Pony wrote:

> Do you know why people feel the need to say they're leaving the
> fandom?
>
> It's because then all the other people who've "left" (but are
> _still_here_!) will give them the attention they want.
>
> Actually, I don't know. That's just a (probably pretty accurate)
> guess.

A pretty good one, I think. Over time, I've seen a good number of people I
know & like make the disappearing act for good, though, and they usually
don't leave any forwarding addresses behind, nor do they make any big
productions about their exit. They just slip out the back, Jack. Why do
they leave? Some perhaps because they didn't like the changes taking place
in what had once been an amenable social environment; others, it may be a
case of "new times, new interests in life," both motivations I find
understandable and perhaps inevitable.

Ken Pick

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Jan 28, 2004, 3:27:58 PM1/28/04
to
The Saprophyte <NormD...@nolocale.com> wrote in message news:<bv7eu0$2c5m$1...@velox.critter.net>...

And that kind of Social Darwinist projections died out with World War
One. H.G.Wells was not a nice guy.

And remember, the Morlocks (producers) ended up farming the Eloi
(parasites/fanboiz) for food.

The Saprophyte

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Jan 28, 2004, 4:49:29 PM1/28/04
to

Ken Pick wrote:

> The Saprophyte <NormD...@nolocale.com> wrote in message news:<bv7eu0$2c5m$1...@velox.critter.net>...
>
>>Wanderer wrote:
>>(snip)
>>
>>>Still, nothing lasts forever. We're not the Morlocks and Eloi, but just a
>>>community divided and united in many ways.
>>
>>Good thing too. If we were, who would be eating who? Think about it,
>>the hideous, parasitic morlocks were the descendants of the downtrodden
>>workers, and who fits that profile best in the fandom? Likewise, the
>>beautiful and innocent Eloi became what they were through exploiting
>>the labor of the workers. Now who does that sound like?
>
>
> And that kind of Social Darwinist projections died out with World War
> One. H.G.Wells was not a nice guy.

Tell me about. "The first men in the moon" is every bit as fun.

>
> And remember, the Morlocks (producers) ended up farming the Eloi
> (parasites/fanboiz) for food.

Precisely, hence the observation. :)

And thank you for restoring the formatting, BTW. If I could see it
doing it beforehand, I'd fix it myself.

--
The Saprophyte
--

Wanderer

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Jan 28, 2004, 9:05:48 PM1/28/04
to
"Ken Pick" <cath...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9efdce3a.04012...@posting.google.com...

<snip>

> And that kind of Social Darwinist projections died out with World War
> One. H.G.Wells was not a nice guy.
>

<snip>

He was a writer, silly. He was a nice guy to everyone he didn't create.;)
He also wrote some good pieces on warfare games and how to make terrain for
the miniature battles.

Yours wolfishly,

The ever-reading,

Don Sanders

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Jan 29, 2004, 6:52:59 PM1/29/04
to
*** Please note, this is a repost due to the fact that this and a few
other posts were made using Furnation news server. For some odd
reason, those posts only show up there and have not propagated to the
other servers in Furrynet. I apologize for the duplication. ***


Subject: Re: I'm Leaving The Fandom! (Pay Attention To Me!)
To: alt.fan.furry
Date: 01/28/04 12:09 PM

In article <101e5g1...@corp.supernews.com>, wand...@ticnet.com
says...


> "Don Sanders" <noo...@myemail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1a80c30f...@news.critter.net...

> <snip>


>
> > > Instead, go find someone who likes the fandom who shares your
> > > interests (unless you're only interested in looking for things to
> > > complain about, in which case none of what I'm saying will work for
> > > you) and hang out with them.
> >
> > Done that, oh lord how I've done that. Met quite a few folks on the
> > way, got to know them, shared some interests, but you know, odd
> > thing, have them read a newsgroup that spews so much venom now and
> > then and their attitudes change. Not to say yours is an idea that is
> > not worthy of consideration, but when it becomes a uphill battle just
> > to maintain some civility, well you get the point. (oops, no pun
> > intended, or else a certain wolf will pun his way in here, not that
> > it's a bad thing. :) )
> >
>

> <snip>
>
> Speaking as a Southerner, war is never civil.:> (Although Xydexx might
> enjoy a pop-ulist uprising...;)
>
> Truthfully, it's never easy to remain civil. We call them graces advisedly,
> because they make life better and a bit easier. It's part of the reason I
> edit myself three times before I post... and every single time, I ask
> myself, "Do I really want to say this?" We're a community, and while there
> is unity in there, it's only because of comm-on interests that we comm here
> at all... so comm-on in!:> But we are all individuals, and individuals will
> disagree. Some will be noisy about it, some quiet, but it happens.

True, so true. Now and then, I take a little trip back to Google to
re-read stuff I have written over the years in this little newsgroup,
and wondered if it would have made any difference if I either wrote
them with fire and brimstone, or tried to maintain a calm head about
things and try to orate it better. Alas, the past is the past, and
with the years of watching the constant bickering and feces flinging,
one does get a tad bitter, but one tries to carry on. Yes, we are a
community, but one that has folks who constantly complains about your
dog on their lawn while you shrug off the notion of their cats in
your rose bushes. Sometimes a shaky peace while we all pursue what
seems to be a common interest, anthropomorphic interests. Oh well,
one can only look towards the future, if there is one in this genre,
one where instead of certain folks with their heads on a pike, their
heads are in nutrient filled bowls as they churn their waters and
talk about the good old days.

>
> Still, nothing lasts forever. We're not the Morlocks and Eloi, but just a

> community divided and united in many ways. Fursonally, I have things in
> common with fursuiters, writers, art lovers, actors, and other wolves. But
> not all A is B, not all A is C, not all B is C, and so on and so forth. All
> disagreements end, if only because the bone of contention has long since
> decayed into a fossil.
>

True, in this case, we seem to be eating each other, on the
metaphoric level. With each aspect of the genre, there is always
something to detract from it, Fursuits and the yammerings about how
realistic they should be, or how realistic they should not be in some
areas. Writers in this genre and their struggles, either they try
and kill themselves to produce grade A stuff to be consumed by the
mainstream, or resign themselves to try and stay within the genre
which at times regards them as lepers. Art lovers and their trials
and tribulations. Torn between seeing a piece done on an amateur
level and being constantly badgered to look into the finer arts.
Wolves??? Well, I can't complain about Wolves, not while there are so
many at my door, oh wait, those are fuller brushtail salescreaturs.
:) Yes, disagreements will happen some just forget that even being
abusive would cause folks to have a bone to pick with them, even if
it is fossilized.


> Yes, people leave sometimes. If they really need to leave, then let them
> go... it's their choice to make. But I always hope that they'll stay, and
> many have.
>

My wish is that for those who decide to return, to do it with a clean
slate, forgive all past aggressions, well, all but the most grave
ones and to think to themselves that whoever they had a beef with in
the past, not to take it out on the rest of the population, surely
that is not hard to ask for.

> Oh, and I'm glad you don't mind the puns... I'd hate to get Dsandblasted
> over them.:>

No problem, you know I would never take them as being abrasive, heck,
I could use a good laugh or two in this grind I'm in. You see, I
look forward to your little puns to smooth out the rough parts of
reading this newsgroup cause of course I always like a fine finish to
a good read. Naturally I do read the bad ones, so all I can do is
grit my teeth and polish up on my manners. :)


Don Sanders.

Don Sanders

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Jan 29, 2004, 6:55:12 PM1/29/04
to
*** Please note, this is a repost due to orginal reply being posted
on Furnation news server and has not gone beyond that. ***


Subject: Re: I'm Leaving The Fandom! (Pay Attention To Me!)
To: alt.fan.furry

Date: 01/28/04 12:16 PM

In article <bv7eu0$2c5m$1...@velox.critter.net>,
NormD...@nolocale.com
says...
>
>
> Wanderer wrote:
> (snip)


> >
> > Still, nothing lasts forever. We're not the Morlocks and Eloi, but just a
> > community divided and united in many ways.
>
>

> Good thing too. If we were, who would be eating who? Think about it,
> the hideous, parasitic morlocks were the descendants of the downtrodden
> workers, and who fits that profile best in the fandom? Likewise, the
> beautiful and innocent Eloi became what they were through exploiting
> the labor of the workers. Now who does that sound like?
>

I'm sure that given time, the folks at furryfans.com will come up
with a interesting flash animation on that. I can already see one
side of this and already it shakes my sensibilities to the core.

Don Sanders.

Wanderer

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Jan 29, 2004, 11:18:14 PM1/29/04
to
"Don Sanders" <noo...@myemail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a8366e99...@news.critter.net...
> Wanderer wrote...

> > Oh, and I'm glad you don't mind the puns... I'd hate to get Dsandblasted
> > over them.:>
>
> No problem, you know I would never take them as being abrasive, heck,
> I could use a good laugh or two in this grind I'm in. You see, I
> look forward to your little puns to smooth out the rough parts of
> reading this newsgroup cause of course I always like a fine finish to
> a good read. Naturally I do read the bad ones, so all I can do is
> grit my teeth and polish up on my manners. :)
>

It's good to know I won't get into a scuff-le over these little gems of my
multi-faceted humor. Whether at home on Ruby Drive or visiting the Emerald
Isle (or just working at Diamond Shamrock, way back when), I'm always faced
by the corundum of my puns' sparkling quality.:> After all, I'd hate for my
gneiss attempts to be taken for granite, opal of mine, though that's often a
"pipe" dream. I guess a rouge like me is lucky just to be a loupe-ine.:>

Yours punnily,

The humor-mining,

Sparrow 13

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Jan 30, 2004, 6:19:37 AM1/30/04
to
fri 30/01/004, 03.18
sfcausa

Ken Pick wrote...

> And that kind of Social Darwinist projections died out with World War
> One. H.G.Wells was not a nice guy.

He wrote *Island Of Dr. Moreau*, though, and that's a pretty good read.
The basic concept of animals-turned-to-humans (of a sort) has stayed in my
mind ever since; now and then I ponder its ramifications as an exercise for
my imagination . The 1932 movie based on it, *Island Of Lost Souls*, is
simply fantastic--one of the best horror flicks of the 1930s along with
*Freaks*, *The Black Cat*, and the Boris Karloff *Frankenstein* movies. It's
also one of the only four of those movies (the others being the
aforementioned *Freaks* and *The Black Cat*,and also *The Cat People) which
are actually scary. HGW himself was appalled by the movie, but who
cares--it's got Charles Laughton queening around with a 12 foot bullwhip, and
Bela Lugosi howling "What is ze LAW?"

Wells wrote *The Invisible Man*, too, and *War Of The Worlds*, too, and all
three of those are pretty thoughtful novels, actually. He was a fairly deep
thinker--and a man of his time as well, a times whose atttitudes always don't
sit well with us today. Judging the past by present-day standards is not
particularly useful.

Iff you can find HGW's final essay "Mind At The End Of Its Tether, I
recommend that you give it a glance.

"I'm gonna get my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames"
--some long-dead drunkard

Sparrow 13


Don Sanders

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Jan 31, 2004, 1:04:49 PM1/31/04
to
In article <101jmo4...@corp.supernews.com>, wand...@ticnet.com
says...

> "Don Sanders" <noo...@myemail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1a8366e99...@news.critter.net...
> > Wanderer wrote...
> > > Oh, and I'm glad you don't mind the puns... I'd hate to get Dsandblasted
> > > over them.:>
> >
> > No problem, you know I would never take them as being abrasive, heck,
> > I could use a good laugh or two in this grind I'm in. You see, I
> > look forward to your little puns to smooth out the rough parts of
> > reading this newsgroup cause of course I always like a fine finish to
> > a good read. Naturally I do read the bad ones, so all I can do is
> > grit my teeth and polish up on my manners. :)
> >
>
> It's good to know I won't get into a scuff-le over these little gems of my
> multi-faceted humor. Whether at home on Ruby Drive or visiting the Emerald
> Isle (or just working at Diamond Shamrock, way back when), I'm always faced
> by the corundum of my puns' sparkling quality.:> After all, I'd hate for my
> gneiss attempts to be taken for granite, opal of mine, though that's often a
> "pipe" dream. I guess a rouge like me is lucky just to be a loupe-ine.:>

Well, you gotta admit, it was a rocky start, but it has given me a
Gold-en opportunity to really enjoy your wit you silver-toungued
devil. With all the flaming going on with folks trying to iron out
their problems, it is refreshing to find an alternative to either
fighting Ore enjoying the genre. I always Marble at your wit and
Shale always continue to relish it. Maybe one day, at a con, we
should sit down at the bar and share a Quartz of ale between us.
Although our views of the genre may be slight different and maybe
concrete, I know all of these bad times will come topaz. Cheers ole
wolfen one, I know for one thing that with all the cynicism and
flaming, you always have the stones to look on the shiney side. :)

>
> Yours punnily,
>
> The humor-mining,

Oooh, I hope you don't get shafted for that one. :)


>
> Wanderer
> wand...@ticnet.com
>
--
Don Sanders.

Wanderer

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Feb 1, 2004, 3:11:46 PM2/1/04
to
"Don Sanders" <noo...@myemail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a85b84ce...@news.critter.net...

> Well, you gotta admit, it was a rocky start, but it has given me a
> Gold-en opportunity to really enjoy your wit you silver-toungued
> devil. With all the flaming going on with folks trying to iron out
> their problems, it is refreshing to find an alternative to either
> fighting Ore enjoying the genre. I always Marble at your wit and
> Shale always continue to relish it. Maybe one day, at a con, we
> should sit down at the bar and share a Quartz of ale between us.
> Although our views of the genre may be slight different and maybe
> concrete, I know all of these bad times will come topaz. Cheers ole
> wolfen one, I know for one thing that with all the cynicism and
> flaming, you always have the stones to look on the shiney side. :)
>
> Oooh, I hope you don't get shafted for that one. :)
>

<LAUGH> Okay, okay, I give!:) Good stuff, Dsan.:)

Yours appreciatively,

The wolfish,

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