Furry Animation Art - Why No Interest?
Karl Meyer
interest I have. That is collecting animation art. Other than a fellow
furry who got me into that hobby, I've seen very little interest by most
furries in it. This is a bit mystifying since so many furries claim films
such as Robin Hood and Animalympics were what started their interest in
furries. While cells from the former might be a bit pricey, Animalympic
cells can be had for as little as $15. These are real cells, one of a
kind, from a movie that is about as furry as you can get and I've
repeatedly seen them passed by in favor of photocopied spooge art. Even
cells costing $100-$300 from places like Warner Bros. stores aren't out of
the range of so many furries that there should be no one else in the
fandom who buys them. An added bonus is that at some future date should I
tire of a cell, there will be a market for it that is much larger than
just the furry fandom. I'd like to hear others comments on this seemingly
neglected area of the fandom.
--Karl Meyer
Fhaolan
>The thread on the real problem with the fandom touched on an area of
>interest I have. That is collecting animation art. Other than a fellow
>furry who got me into that hobby, I've seen very little interest by most
>furries in it. This is a bit mystifying since so many furries claim films
Fhaolan wanders by, "Actually, I think there's a grea' deal o'
*interest*. Jus' tha' tha people who have the skill, dinn'a have tha
time, an' those who have tha time an' skill, dinn'a have tha money."
;)
-Fhaolan, Celtic Wuf, who'd like to try animation some day. Once he
gets to the point where he can draw characters repeatably. ;)
Don Sanders
Yes, tis truth the Celtic Wuf speaks of. I have yet to see those of us
amateurs able to produce even a whole minute of animation. Yes, blame us, for
we neither have the skills, nor the money to do such a big bang production.
However I can imagine if we did, somebody would complain about either the
quality of the animation, or the content. WooHoo, to see a Doug Winger
Animation!!! :)~
As it goes, the big animation companies have their paws in our wallets for the
moment, just as well enjoy the ride while they get fat.
Don Sanders
Dsan Tsan on #furry of Yiffnet
Artist at Roll Yer Own Graphics
http://www.dreamscape.com/dsand101/dsan.htm
(my furry page) Email dsan...@future.dreamscape.com
Karl Meyer
: Yes, tis truth the Celtic Wuf speaks of. I have yet to see those of us
: amateurs able to produce even a whole minute of animation. Yes, blame us, for
: we neither have the skills, nor the money to do such a big bang production.
I wasn't talking about interest in fan artist produced cells though there
are a few artists in the fandom who to cell style art (something I happen
to like). I'm talking about collecting actual cells from commercially
produced animation. I know there are a few artists who've actually done
some animation via computer which I certainly enjoy watching but there
obviously aren't any cells from those.
--Karl Meyer
Fhaolan
Fhaolan ahhhs, "Sorry, misunderstood ye." :)
"For meself, I dinn'a collect animation cells, because I like havin'
tha whole animation instead. When I buy 'still art', I prefer buyin'
art tha' was intended tae be 'still art'. Jus' a personal quirk, I
think. Bu' then, I know a lo' o' Furries who collect videos, so I'm
thinin' I'm nae unique like tha'."
-Fhaolan, Celtic Wuf!
Bev Clark/Steve Gallacci
Karl Meyer <fer...@enteract.com> wrote:
>Don Sanders <noo...@myemail.com> wrote:
>
>: Yes, tis truth the Celtic Wuf speaks of. I have yet to see those of us
>: amateurs able to produce even a whole minute of animation. Yes, blame us, for
>: we neither have the skills, nor the money to do such a big bang production.
>
>I wasn't talking about interest in fan artist produced cells though there
>are a few artists in the fandom who to cell style art (something I happen
>to like). I'm talking about collecting actual cells from commercially
>produced animation. I know there are a few artists who've actually done
>some animation via computer which I certainly enjoy watching but there
>obviously aren't any cells from those.
>
opportunity/selection/prices don't always encourage fast and furious
buying.
For example, i wouldn't mind getting some key elements out of any number
of features, but if the specific scene isn't available, I'd pass on the
rest.
I'd guess that most other potential buyers are the same way, not that
they are not interested at all, only that they have only
selective/limited interest.
Don Sanders
>Don Sanders <noo...@myemail.com> wrote:
>
>: Yes, tis truth the Celtic Wuf speaks of. I have yet to see those of us
>: amateurs able to produce even a whole minute of animation. Yes, blame us,
> for
>: we neither have the skills, nor the money to do such a big bang production.
>
>I wasn't talking about interest in fan artist produced cells though there
>are a few artists in the fandom who to cell style art (something I happen
>to like). I'm talking about collecting actual cells from commercially
>produced animation. I know there are a few artists who've actually done
>some animation via computer which I certainly enjoy watching but there
>obviously aren't any cells from those.
>
Oh, that interest in animation. I stand corrected.
(A PSA from Canids for upright posture)
Dale Farmer
: Karl Meyer <fer...@enteract.com> wrote:
:> The thread on the real problem with the fandom touched on an area of
:> interest I have. That is collecting animation art. Other than a fellow
:> furry who got me into that hobby, I've seen very little interest by most
:> furries in it. This is a bit mystifying since so many furries claim films
:> such as Robin Hood and Animalympics were what started their interest in
Cels mostly just don't reach out and grab me by the lapels
and scream *BUY ME!*. I have looked at them in galleries, and the
production cels are mostly in-betweens, with no background, nothing
really to stand out. Then the $300 and higher price tag. The ones
that I do find interesting are in the six to eight hundred dollar
price range. And I'm not going to blow that big a chunk of my art
budget on a cel. I can, and have bought paintings in that price range,
but those are good paintings, not a single cel, or a sericel. (Why
can't they just call it a print? Marketing had to invent a new word
to sell them under. sheesh. )
I like paintings much more. I prefer to buy originals when I
can find and afford them. Paintings that I can hang in my house and
put a spotlight on. I have more prints than I have wall space
available to hang them. My art interests are not just limited to
funny animals, so most of my art budget gets spent for non-furry
works. <shrug> Art is a very personal thing, and varies a lot
from person to person, both on the creator and the consumer sides.
--Dale
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dale Farmer Dale at accessdotdigex.net Personal opinion. Sudbury, Mass.
"Free the ISO 9000!" --Nomi Burstein
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Raccoon
Meyer) says...
>The thread on the real problem with the fandom touched on an area of
>interest I have. That is collecting animation art. Other than a fellow
>furry who got me into that hobby, I've seen very little interest by most
>furries in it. This is a bit mystifying since so many furries claim films
>such as Robin Hood and Animalympics were what started their interest in
>cells can be had for as little as $15. These are real cells, one of a
>kind, from a movie that is about as furry as you can get and I've
>repeatedly seen them passed by in favor of photocopied spooge art. Even
>cells costing $100-$300 from places like Warner Bros. stores aren't out of
>the range of so many furries that there should be no one else in the
>fandom who buys them. An added bonus is that at some future date should I
>tire of a cell, there will be a market for it that is much larger than
>just the furry fandom. I'd like to hear others comments on this seemingly
>neglected area of the fandom.
>
>--Karl Meyer
>
Yes, price is probably the only thing keeping cell collecting from being
a popular trend. There was a time when Disney cells were practically
given away by Walt Disney.. this (to my knowledge) happened when cells
were being destroyed or recycled for war-time use (not exactly sure what
they were used for).. but from what I heard, cells could be gotten at
$5.00 each.
Unfortunately, people didn't know how to care for cells, and they
wouldn't last long. Infact, the best way to care for a cell is to hide
it in a portfolio and make sure it never sees the light of day.
This is why I think that cells are at such an outrageous price today, to
make sure they find a responsible owner.
-Raccoon
--
To contact me, remove the numbers from my email address.
a1l2t3.4r5...@usa.net
Karl Meyer
: "For meself, I dinn'a collect animation cells, because I like havin'
: tha whole animation instead. When I buy 'still art', I prefer buyin'
: art tha' was intended tae be 'still art'. Jus' a personal quirk, I
: think. Bu' then, I know a lo' o' Furries who collect videos, so I'm
: thinin' I'm nae unique like tha'."
I generally have the full animation as well as the cells. I can understand
what you're saying about cells not being drawn to be still art. That's one
of the reasons there aren't nearly as many cells as some would think. The
vast majority really aren't all that collectable because of the
distortions required to give the illusion of smooth motion in the finished
film. The one Minerva Mink cell I have is a good example. When single
framing through that particular sequence there were only 3 frames that
would have really been suitable as a collector cell. When you consider
that there are anywhere from 6-12 (occasionally more) unique cells per
second that isn't very many.
--Karl Meyer
Karl Meyer
: > furries. While cells from the former might be a bit pricey, Animalympic
: > cells can be had for as little as $15. These are real cells, one of a
: > kind, from a movie that is about as furry as you can get and I've
: > repeatedly seen them passed by in favor of photocopied spooge art. Even
: > cells costing $100-$300 from places like Warner Bros. stores aren't out of
: > the range of so many furries that there should be no one else in the
: > fandom who buys them.
: *nods* Yeah....and cels at the $300's can be pretty low. Most I've ever paid
: was around $400, and that was for Minerva. There were/are several cel's I'd
: love to get my hands on, but are unfortunantly more than I can currently
: afford. Tell me more about what cels you have and collect, please--I agree,
: this is a highly under-rated aspect of art (in general), and a rather lonely
: 'furry' art topic.
I have a fair number of Animalympic cells. Their general low cost and
availability means I've been able to hold out for some really nice ones. I
lucked into a pair of cells from Robin hood. One of robin and one of Maid
Marion at CF one year. I have a Minerva Mink cell that I got in one of
those call in things they used to run at Warner Brothers stores (they were
a major pain in the behind.) A character model cell from Fritz the Cat was
sold at the charity auction at AAC #1 and I was suprised at how low I had
to bid to get it. A signed Pink Panther cell and a cell of Rocky Squirrel
from the original Rocky and Bullwinkle show are the real stars of my
collection. Very few cells from that show survived and my jaw almost
dropped when I walked into a local cell gallery and saw 10 of them hanging
on the wall. The proprieter had had to do some serious work to track them
down. I traded a second Minerva cell for a rather nice one fromSecret of
Nimh. The last one I bought was from Heavy Metal with Tarna on her bird.
There are a few animated features I'd love cells from. Bambi, Rikki Tikki
Tavi, Allegro Non Troppo, Fantasia and maybe a decent one from Sonic the
Hedgehog. Some of these might be possible within my budget and some likely
never will be. I'd like to get a signed Chuck Jones cell and one signed
by Hanna and Barbara. The latter are a lot more obtainable for reasonable
amounts. I'll likely pick up a Tiny Toons cell in the near future as the
prices for them are fairly reasonable at this point. I only have so much
room to hang them unfortunately.
Karl Meyer
: Yes, price is probably the only thing keeping cell collecting from being
: a popular trend.
The thing is that it doesn't have to be that horrendously expensive. One
can buy cells for under $10 in some cases. Granted cells from classic
Disney films are a bit out of reach but there are certainly other films
with great cells that are well within the budget of many furries.
: There was a time when Disney cells were practically
: given away by Walt Disney.. this (to my knowledge) happened when cells
: were being destroyed or recycled for war-time use (not exactly sure what
: they were used for).. but from what I heard, cells could be gotten at
: $5.00 each.
I never saw them for that little but when my family and I went to
Disneyland around 1981, there were boxes of cells in some of the stores in
the park filled with cells for $20-$30 that today would be 20X that or
more.
: Unfortunately, people didn't know how to care for cells, and they
: wouldn't last long. Infact, the best way to care for a cell is to hide
: it in a portfolio and make sure it never sees the light of day.
This isn't quite true. Up to a point Disney and other animation houses
painted cells on sheets of nitrocellulose. Basically sheets of the base
substance making up modern gunpowder. These have/had a tendency to
deteriorate and finding one in good shape not in a collection these days
is rare though it does happen. I was in a local gallery when an older
couple brought in a couple cells for sale that they'd found in their
attic. One was of Micky Mouse and Donald Duck. It was from the very first
color Micky Mouse cartoon. The other was from Snow White and the Seven
Dwarfs. It had all seven of the dwarfs. They were in great shape. The
couple got a fat check (much more than they expected as they knew nothing
about cells). I got to see a couple of cells that any museum of animation
art would have given their eye teeth to have, and the gallery made a nice
profit when they sold them (I think for a combined $30,000 or there
abouts. More modern cells are painted on acetate sheets and are a lot more
stable. Keep them within reasonable temperature bounds and out of direct
sunlite and they are generally pretty durable.
: This is why I think that cells are at such an outrageous price today, to
: make sure they find a responsible owner.
Cells today are considered fine art. It's also a dying one unfortunately
with the advent of computers being used more by animation houses. Cells
from certain films and cartoons are very rare if they exist at all. At one
time many were destroyed or the plastic sheets were washed of paint and
re-used. Try to find a cell from Underdog. You won't. As far as anyone
knows there are none that survived washing and reuse. Most of the cells
from the origina Rocky and Bullwinkle show met the same fate. I've
mentioned Animalympics several times. About half the cells from that film
were destroyed in a flood. It's a little known film to the general public
which is one reason the cells from it are so reasonably priced. The main
thing setting the price of cells though is simply supply and demand. The
demand has risen hugely in recent years and therefore so has the price.
Karl Meyer
: Cels mostly just don't reach out and grab me by the lapels
: and scream *BUY ME!*. I have looked at them in galleries, and the
: production cels are mostly in-betweens, with no background, nothing
: really to stand out.
You occasionally run across key master setups (the cell with the original
backround). They are usually fairly pricey. Keep in mind that one
backround might be used for several seconds in a film. There are far more
cells than backrounds. Almost as nice is when a copy of the original
backround is available to go behind a cell.
: that I do find interesting are in the six to eight hundred dollar
: price range. And I'm not going to blow that big a chunk of my art
: budget on a cel. I can, and have bought paintings in that price range,
: but those are good paintings, not a single cel, or a sericel. (Why
: can't they just call it a print? Marketing had to invent a new word
: to sell them under. sheesh. )
The point is that cells are considered fine art. I would and have paid
$800+ for a cell. I agree with you on sericels. They are mostly
overpriced. At least some of the recreated limitted edition cells have
some actual handwork by an artist involved.
: I like paintings much more. I prefer to buy originals when I
: can find and afford them.
Same here, though high quality lithographs can be pretty nice as well.
: put a spotlight on. I have more prints than I have wall space
: available to hang them. My art interests are not just limited to
: funny animals, so most of my art budget gets spent for non-furry
: works.
Same here. Animation cells are about the only time I've seen the world of
furry and fine art overlap. As I've said in other posts. There has only
been a couple of pieces of art at furry cons I'd have considered paying
over $500 for and one of those wasn't for sale.
--Karl Meyer
Roz Gibson
>cells costing $100-$300 from places like Warner Bros. stores aren't out of
>the range of so many furries that there should be no one else in the
>tire of a cell, there will be a market for it that is much larger than
>just the furry fandom. I'd like to hear others comments on this seemingly
>neglected area of the fandom.
Well, I actually have several real animation cels, one from Watership Down and
two from Pink Floyd, the Wall. The Wall cels cost me nearly a grand apiece,
(I bought them some years ago, when I actually had money. Now I'm broke). The
Watership Down cel cost nearly 300. Those prices are far out of the range of
most furry fans, who can barely scrape together the money to plunk down 10 0r
20 dollars for a portfolio. The Disney cels usually run from the upper
hundreds to the mutiple thousands.
The cheap cels are usually the 'limited edition' collector stuff that most real
art connisours won't buy. Resale of cels is iffy at best. A friend has been
trying to sell some Don Bluth cels and cels from Rover Dangerfield at a
fraction of what she paid for them--but no takers.
So, I'd say the price factor is what's keeping most furry fans from cel
collecting. 'zines are much cheaper.
Roz G.
--
Furry Code
FFD2a A++++$ C++ D- H- M- P R++ T++ W+ Z++++ SF#
RLA A+ Cn++ D- E++ F+ H+++ I+ P++ SF#
Roz Gibson in real life, and nobody in furry muck.
Captain Packrat
>I'd like to hear others comments on this seemingly
>neglected area of the fandom.
Actually, I do have a single piece of animation art, an original
production sketch of Gadget from the Rescue Rangers. It set me back
$50. I've been trying to obtain an original cel of her, but the
cheapest price I've been quoted is $300. I found an original Ms.
Brisby cel at CCI:SD 97, but it was $150, and I had exactly $150 for
the entire con. :P I didn't see anything decent at CCI:SD 98. My
tastes are rather specific, female mice. That rather limits the
number of images to Gadget (rare), Mrs. Brisby (rare), Ms. Bianca
(expensive!), and the very few other mouse femmes that have appeared
in other cartoons (i.e., the burlesque dancer in The Great Mouse
Detective, extremely rare)
Does an original panel from Xanadu count? :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Captain Packrat |
| (Captain on FurryMUCK and FurToonia) |
| |
| Fur Central ---> http://www.personal.isat.com/captpackrat/ |
| Plush Central ---> http://www.personal.isat.com/captpackrat/plush/ |
| |
| Furry Code 1.3 (available from Fur Central) |
| FRM/R4 A+++ C>+ D++ H+++ M+++ P++++ R+ T++++ W Z++>+++ |
| Sm+ RLCT* a cn++ d- e+ f++++ h+ iwf+++ |
| |
| If you're furry and you know it, Hug the Mouse! |
| |
| O. .O |
| ==V== |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Meyer
: the entire con. :P I didn't see anything decent at CCI:SD 98. My
: tastes are rather specific, female mice. That rather limits the
: number of images to Gadget (rare), Mrs. Brisby (rare), Ms. Bianca
: (expensive!), and the very few other mouse femmes that have appeared
: in other cartoons (i.e., the burlesque dancer in The Great Mouse
: Detective, extremely rare)
I've been keeping my eyes open for one of the burlesque dancer myself.
Other cells from that film seem to sell in the $300 range. Not bad for
cells from a feature Disney film. Fox and the Hound cells are just about
untouchable at this point. I'm not sure exactly why as that wasn't one of
Disney's more successful films. Black Cauldron cells are also fairly
inexpensive or were. Now that it's finally out on video who knows.
--Karl Meyer
Michael Russell (Netcom)
I have a large collection of original production cels.
They are even displayed in the animation area of my web site.
I've got cels even from Russia and New Zealand.
But, most of what I collect tends to be foxes and then cute, female
furries (Fifi LaFume, Minerva, Babs Bunny, etc).
Animation cels are a lousy investment. If you are considering buying
them, then do so because you enjoy the art. My collection, on the
market, would, at best, get me half what I paid for it.
I only collect production, original artwork. None of this mass-produced
copies (hand painted or not).
I also would love to collect storyboards, scripts, and character
designs; but these are rarely if ever released by the studios. They
think no one is interested in them.
--
Cheers - Mike "Flafox"
Staying "Tiny Toon'd":
Michael Russell # AS/400, AIX, and Multimedia
IBM Global Services # E-mail: mrus...@ix.netcom.com
Orlando, FL # or msru...@us.ibm.com
"The World of Vicki Fox" # http://people.delphi.com/msrussell
Daphne Lage
<362F2E1E...@ix.netcom.com>...
>Animation cels are a lousy investment. If you are considering buying
>them, then do so because you enjoy the art. My collection, on the
>market, would, at best, get me half what I paid for it.
*Anything* is a lousy investment. What I've noticed is that the minute
something is touted as an "investment" it's usually too late to get involved
because *everyone* now knows it's an investment. Look at Beanie Babies for
example - the only people who are reaping the rewards on them are those
people who were collecting them *before* the craze hit. I feel really sorry
for the people who are jumping on the bandwagon and are spending thousands
of dollars on those dumb little dolls - only to find out too late that
they're really just "dumb little dolls" when the market finally collapses on
them (which is only a matter of time). It's the same thing that happened to
comics and animation cels are the same thing.
When collecting, *always* collect what you enjoy and don't think of it as
anything more. The minute you start looking at things as an easy way to make
big money, you're only going to end up burning yourself.
>I only collect production, original artwork. None of this mass-produced
>copies (hand painted or not).
I only own one cel - a cel of Justin and Jenner swordfighting (from NIMH). I
lucked out on it and bought it at CF8 for $40.00. I couldn't believe what an
insane bargain that was. A year later, when I went to CCI:SD, I saw MANY
cels of Justin, Jenner, and both for sale - but *all* of them were priced
above $490.00 ($490 being the lowest price). No way could I afford those
prices even if I wanted to. There was actually a gorgeous Beauty and the
Beast (Disney) cel that I was actually *seriously* tempted to plunk down
almost $2000 for it, but reason won out in the end. I only wish that there
were sericels or *something* more "affordable" but even sericels tend to be
on the expensive side. A sericel of Esmerelda and Djali (Disney *again*)
that I've had my eye on for a while would set me back $250.
The closest things to cels that I try to collect is auction catalogs, but
only from Disney feature exclusive auctions. I have the catalogs for "The
Little Mermaid", "Beauty and the Beast" and "Aladdin". I'd like to get my
hands on the "Lion King" and "Hunchback" catalogs but it's been so long,
I'll be lucky to find them.
And talk about *expensive* - those minimum bids in those catalogs are *no
joke.* Definitely high roller stuff.
I think even if I had "gobs of money" I really wouldn't get into animation
cels that much because even at $400 a piece, they're still rather
expensive - and we're just talking about unframed cels. Framing those things
would probably add another $200 each.
>I also would love to collect storyboards, scripts, and character
>designs; but these are rarely if ever released by the studios. They
>think no one is interested in them.
I would *love* to get my hands on the final (used for the movie) character
designs for Justin and Jenner but the only one I've seen was for Mrs.
Brisby - and that was only printed in a Movie promotional magazine.
--Daphne Lage
****************************************************************
The EgoWorks - Free catalog available -
http://www.intercall.com/~egoraven/
****************************************************************
TALL TAILS - The Official Homepage
http://www.intercall.com/~egoraven/ttmain.htm
****************************************************************
The Secret of N.I.M.H. Justin and Jenner Shrine
http://www.intercall.com/~egoraven/nimh.htm
****************************************************************
"The only thing you can change is yourself,
but sometimes that changes everything." - Anonymous
****************************************************************
Timothy Fay
>
> Well, I actually have several real animation cels, one from Watership Down and
> two from Pink Floyd, the Wall. The Wall cels cost me nearly a grand apiece,
> (I bought them some years ago, when I actually had money. Now I'm broke). The
Cel prices these days are simply crazy. And it's only in the past
few years that they've really gone through the roof. I bought a
Watership cel at SDCC about 10-15 years ago for about $80, or so.
And in 1992 I saw a cel from POGO'S SPECIAL BIRTHDAY SPECIAL
listed at $200; just five years earlier I bought a similar cel for
only $40.
Deals can still be found (I picked up a decent ROBIN HOOD cel for
$100 at CF8), but long gone are the days when I can buy a cels
from movies like THE RESCUERS or THE SECRET OF NIMH for around
$125. The casual buyer/animation fan is simply priced out of the
market these days, mostly because of greedy speculators and the
underhanded business practices of most of the major studios.
--
"Hey, ho -- let's go!" -Ramones
Karl Meyer
: *Anything* is a lousy investment. What I've noticed is that the minute
: something is touted as an "investment" it's usually too late to get involved
: because *everyone* now knows it's an investment.
Very true.
: them (which is only a matter of time). It's the same thing that happened to
: comics and animation cels are the same thing.
I don't see the market for animation cells collapsing anytime soon for one
very important reason. Unlike many of the other collecting crazes there
are fewer and fewer cells being produced as more animation is being done
on computers. Certainly there are some limitted edition cells and
sericells out there but they aren't the same. There are certainly no
studios producing them for the sole purpose of selling to the collectors
market.
: When collecting, *always* collect what you enjoy and don't think of it as
: anything more. The minute you start looking at things as an easy way to make
: big money, you're only going to end up burning yourself.
Another thing I agree with.
: >I only collect production, original artwork. None of this mass-produced
: >copies (hand painted or not).
: I only own one cel - a cel of Justin and Jenner swordfighting (from NIMH). I
: lucked out on it and bought it at CF8 for $40.00. I couldn't believe what an
: insane bargain that was.
I believe this was the same CF I got the Robin Hood and Maid Marion cells
for $150 for the both of them. Good year for cells for those who liked
them it seems.
: And talk about *expensive* - those minimum bids in those catalogs are *no
: joke.* Definitely high roller stuff.
Stuff that Dinsey sells direct tends to have artifically high prices
attached. What can you do when they are the only source though. I think
multi-thousand dollar prices for those sericells that Disney now sells
from their new films are a little ridiculous. They aren't production cells
and for what they are asking I could buy cells from some of the clasic
Disney films. At least the coffee table books are generally well done.
: I think even if I had "gobs of money" I really wouldn't get into animation
: cels that much because even at $400 a piece, they're still rather
: expensive - and we're just talking about unframed cels. Framing those things
: would probably add another $200 each.
that's the main reason I've learned to mat and frame my own. I think cells
look best in simple modular frames for the most part.
: >I also would love to collect storyboards, scripts, and character
: >designs; but these are rarely if ever released by the studios. They
: >think no one is interested in them.
Model sheets are available in some cases but original ones can be as much
as cells from the film.
: I would *love* to get my hands on the final (used for the movie) character
: designs for Justin and Jenner but the only one I've seen was for Mrs.
: Brisby - and that was only printed in a Movie promotional magazine.
If I ever spot something like that I'll let you know. That's one reason
I'm glad to see some discussion on this topic. More eyes to watch for
cells and such that others might be interested in.
--Karl Meyer
Karl Meyer
: Cel prices these days are simply crazy. And it's only in the past
: few years that they've really gone through the roof. I bought a
: Watership cel at SDCC about 10-15 years ago for about $80, or so.
: And in 1992 I saw a cel from POGO'S SPECIAL BIRTHDAY SPECIAL
: listed at $200; just five years earlier I bought a similar cel for
: only $40.
Figuruing at best that you would get about half retail for your cells if
you sold them to a gallery, I'd say that the rise in prices for them isn't
all that outrageous. Figuring in inflation and the increased interest in
collecting them they are still a fair number of bargins out there.
: $125. The casual buyer/animation fan is simply priced out of the
: market these days, mostly because of greedy speculators and the
: underhanded business practices of most of the major studios.
I don't know from speculators. There are certainly those who were
interested in cells before the market for them exploded and sent prices
up. I'm not sure what practices you are talking about as far as the major
studios. Disney is out of the cell business for the most part as they
aren't using them for films any more. Warner will likely follow them at
some point. As things are now the prices Warner charges aren't all that
rediculous. Each cell they use costs around $12 to produce. Then they have
to be shipped from overseas (they are painted in Asia), the ones that
survive the less than ideal conditions from shipping then have to be
sorted, catalogued, a certain number kept for their own archives and the
remaining few with decent poses put on their cell search system or sent to
various stores for sale. This is a major service to those of us who
collect them. At least they aren't dumping them in the garbage or washing
the paint off and reusing the plastic any more. A manager at one of the
Warner stores told me that if the artists painting the cells realized what
their value was here in the US that Warner wouldn't get many of them back.
Keep in mind that the collector market is a far second in what the cells
are produced for in the first place. Once they are filmed for an animated
feature, their value to the studio drops tremendously. If it weren't for
some cooperation from the studios, there wouldn't be any cells to collect
and the few that had made it out would be priced even higher than they are
now.
--Karl Meyer
michele light
>
> The thread on the real problem with the fandom touched on an area of
> interest I have. That is collecting animation art.
I have about 15 animation cels myself, mostly anime, but I do have two
101 Dalmation Sericels. I would probably collect more if they weren't so
expensive. I do so enjoy looking at them.
My only problem with some original cels is that the artwork (ie: paint
and/or inks) can be fugitive. A 15 year old Crusher Joe cel I have on my
office wall no longer has any of the black outlines, they all faded
away. Cels were never meant to last any longer than it too to make the
project they were from, so they didn't always use the best materials.
Forever Drawing,
Michele Light
onlybl...@hotmail.com
mdl...@aol.com wrote:
> Karl Meyer wrote:
> >
> > The thread on the real problem with the fandom touched on an area of
> > interest I have. That is collecting animation art.
>
> I have about 15 animation cels myself, mostly anime, but I do have two
> 101 Dalmation Sericels. I would probably collect more if they weren't so
> expensive. I do so enjoy looking at them.
>
> My only problem with some original cels is that the artwork (ie: paint
too to make the
> project they were from, so they didn't always use the best materials.
>
> Forever Drawing,
> Michele Light
>
I have to agree here...even the cels themselves can be the problem, if you
have the right mixture of bad acetate, temperature variations and the like.
A dear cel I've loved for years--a small piece taken from 'Fantasia' years
ago--that I received as a gift about 11 years ago is heartbreaking, because
the cel is so yellowed with age. Worse still, it was stored near a heater
(or in direct sunlight) for awhile, because it is distorted and slightly
twisted. It's a shame that some of these truly wonderful work of art become
completely ruined by neglect or materials. Just looking at the cel now, it
is terribly faded, and some paint chipped from it's surface. It could really
be worth something if it wasn't so completely....abused.
Robert
-BlueGhost @FM, FT, SPR, & Taps-
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Karl Meyer
: I have to agree here...even the cels themselves can be the problem, if you
: have the right mixture of bad acetate, temperature variations and the like.
: A dear cel I've loved for years--a small piece taken from 'Fantasia' years
: ago--that I received as a gift about 11 years ago is heartbreaking, because
: the cel is so yellowed with age. Worse still, it was stored near a heater
: (or in direct sunlight) for awhile, because it is distorted and slightly
: twisted.
I'm not sure but Disney might have still been using nitrocellulose sheets
for their cells at that point. Those can virtually turn to dust for no
apparent reason. The ones on actual acetate are usually a bit more
resistant to damage. There are certain paints that can cause problems as
well. The white used for 101 Dalmations doesn't stick to the acetate all
that well and tends to flake off.
--Karl Meyer
Chuck Melville
<70jtdp$igd$1...@eve.enteract.com>...
> The thread on the real problem with the fandom touched on an area of
> furry who got me into that hobby, I've seen very little interest by most
> furries in it. This is a bit mystifying since so many furries claim films
> such as Robin Hood and Animalympics were what started their interest in
> cells can be had for as little as $15. These are real cells, one of a
> kind, from a movie that is about as furry as you can get and I've
> repeatedly seen them passed by in favor of photocopied spooge art. Even
of
> the range of so many furries that there should be no one else in the
> fandom who buys them. An added bonus is that at some future date should I
> tire of a cell, there will be a market for it that is much larger than
> neglected area of the fandom.
>
Hey, I'd -love- to own a few animation cels. (It's -cel- by the way, not
cel; the former is an isolated room or a biological unit, while the former
is short for celluloid.) I -used- to own a few (don't ask what became of
them), such as a nice shot of Vixey from FOX AND THE HOUND, and a couple
from SECRET OF NIMH, including a nice dramatic scene of Brisby and the Owl.
But even then, a decade ago when I purchased them, they were selling for a
couple of hundred bucks; not cheap. And I certainly can't afford them now,
much as I'd like.
And I've found that picking the right cel is tricky (and subjective to
taste as well); several cels of the same scene always seem just a bit 'off'
in pose (because they are in different stages of extremes in a single
motion) for example -- and I usually find myself drawn more to the Disney
cels because of the subtlety of colors used there.
--
-Chuck Melville-
"We'd like to buy a cat. Preferably one with a history of mental illness."
Chuck Melville
<na.573506489a...@argonet.co.uk>...
> In article <01bdff56$a4da9260$LocalHost@kathleen>, "Chuck Melville"
> <cp...@zipcon.net> wrote:
>
> > Hey, I'd -love- to own a few animation cels. (It's -cel- by the way,
not
> >cel; the former is an isolated room or a biological unit, while the
former
> >is short for celluloid.)
>
> oppose hunting on as it is pointless and, even worse, it is pointless.",
> which comes from a fox-hunting FAQ :D
>
Gah!
I don't know what happened there; I could have -sworn- I double-checked
that before posting!
What I meant to say was that it is an animation -cel- and not a -cell-.
Locandez
<cp...@zipcon.net> wrote:
>> Couldn't have put it better myself. I'll stash this alongside "People
>> oppose hunting on as it is pointless and, even worse, it is pointless.",
>> which comes from a fox-hunting FAQ :D
>
> Gah!
>
> I don't know what happened there; I could have -sworn- I double-checked
>that before posting!
You did. You thought, "Must not write 'cel' twice. Must not write 'cel'
twice." And guess what? :}
This is similar to the effect whereby a golfer thinks about what he
_doesn't_ want to do (e.g. hit the ball into a bunker) and ends up doing it.
Locandez
--
My -true- email address is: lyndale [at] argonet [dot] co [dot] uk
A blank copy of the 'Furvey'; and information, links, guides, documents
and reference material relating to alt.lifestyle.furry and the furry
lifestyle culture can be found at "Lifestyles Of The Cute And Furry":
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/lyndale/lotcaf/
"Teeeeehhhddd! Not in front of Mr Fox!" - Father Dougal
dem...@ucla.edu
out hundred's of bucks for a single frame. And I'm an animation student so the
last thing I want to see hanging on my wall is another goddamn cel ;-P (I've
got enough of those strewn about my room, Thanx.
VJG/K.A.I.S.E.R.
In article <70ke0h$esg$1...@chaos.ao.net>,
noo...@myemail.com (Don Sanders) wrote:
> In article <362d7f88...@news.istar.ca>, ark...@istar.ca wrote:
> >On 21 Oct 1998 06:02:33 GMT, Karl Meyer <fer...@enteract.com> wrote:
> >
> >>The thread on the real problem with the fandom touched on an area of
> >>interest I have. That is collecting animation art. Other than a fellow
> >>furry who got me into that hobby, I've seen very little interest by most
> >>furries in it. This is a bit mystifying since so many furries claim films
> >
> >Fhaolan wanders by, "Actually, I think there's a grea' deal o'
> >*interest*. Jus' tha' tha people who have the skill, dinn'a have tha
> >time, an' those who have tha time an' skill, dinn'a have tha money."
> >;)
> >
> >-Fhaolan, Celtic Wuf, who'd like to try animation some day. Once he
> >gets to the point where he can draw characters repeatably. ;)
>
> Yes, tis truth the Celtic Wuf speaks of. I have yet to see those of us
> amateurs able to produce even a whole minute of animation. Yes, blame us,
for
> we neither have the skills, nor the money to do such a big bang production.
> However I can imagine if we did, somebody would complain about either the
> quality of the animation, or the content. WooHoo, to see a Doug Winger
> Animation!!! :)~
>
> As it goes, the big animation companies have their paws in our wallets for
the
> moment, just as well enjoy the ride while they get fat.
>
> Don Sanders
>
> Dsan Tsan on #furry of Yiffnet
> Artist at Roll Yer Own Graphics
> http://www.dreamscape.com/dsand101/dsan.htm
> (my furry page) Email dsan...@future.dreamscape.com
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------