An Appeal to Mark Merlino
Jim Arthur
What goes around comes around, Mark. There are those who know exactly
what you have done and what you enjoy. You and all those close to you,
and all those once close to you, know exactly what I mean. You're lucky
it's remained only rumor this long.
Stop holding your convention year after year, and make some effort to
repair the shit you've created. Please. For your sake, and for
others. What goes around comes around. Don't you realize that?
And if Mark doesn't, which one of you has the balls to step forward?
Elf Sternberg
In article <348858...@abac.com> Farlo <stan...@abac.com> writes:
>Where'd that come from?
I'm not sure, but from where I stand it seems to have come
well-deserved.
Elf
--
Elf Sternberg (e...@halcyon.com) / http://www.halcyon.com/elf
The God whom science recognizes must be a God of universal laws
exclusively, a God who does a wholesale, not a retail business.
He cannot accomodate His processes to the convenience of individuals.
- William James, The Varieties of Religious Experience, 1902
Farlo
Allen Kitchen wrote:
>
> Mark runs Confurence.
Oh. Much thanks Allen! >^_^<
>
> As for what others are po'd about, my secondhand understanding
> is he supposedly thinks "furry" means "sex".
Uh oh. That's a problem.
> I'll make up my own mind when I go this year.
It's going to be my first confurence, too.
> I know several furs, some artists, who refuse to return to Confurence as
> long as Mark Merlino runs it. I'm going there to have fun, not worry about
> politics.
Same here - fun is #1, politics doesn't rank on the horizon...
> I won't rub anyone's muzzle in my sexuality. I ask the same in
> return. We'll see how it goes...
Well, I purrsonally would like to be noticed by the ladies,
but i'm very shy in public ...
I'm sure that most everyone will behave themselves, tho.
Speaking of shyness, i'm bringing definately bring my "Dragoncam",
and maybe also my Kodak DC-40 digital camera.
CF9 is going to be fun!
--
Farlo m>*_*<m
Farlo's pages >>> Http://users.abac.com/Standard
Atara
Farlo wrote:
> CF9 is going to be fun!
Stop it. Yer makin' me jealous. =P <G>
]:=8) Atara
Allen Kitchen
Farlo <stan...@abac.com> wrote in article <348858...@abac.com>...
> HUH!??
>
> Where'd that come from?
>
Mark runs Confurence.
As for what others are po'd about, my secondhand understanding
is he supposedly thinks "furry" means "sex". I've been told by several
folks (else I'd discount it as hearsay.) I don't know if he is truly
trying to
turn the fandom into a big spoogefest or not. But that is what some furs
are worried about. That, and the supposed bad image it creates.
I'll make up my own mind when I go this year. Yes, there are
sensuous sides to being furry. But it is not the end all be all of
furriness.
I know several furs, some artists, who refuse to return to Confurence as
long as Mark Merlino runs it. I'm going there to have fun, not worry about
politics.
I won't rub anyone's muzzle in my sexuality. I ask the same in
return. We'll see how it goes...
Shockwave
Allen Kitchen
all...@blkbox.com
http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/
Vixy
MMilam writes:
>
> Just two weeks ago, you and others here told me that flamewars against others or
> other groups of furs were not accepted. Since this "Mark Melino" thing has found
> some replies, i'm begin to question wheter any of what was said to me in the
> last month was not to slience me.
>
Hmmmmm... maybe I should check again just to make sure.
. . .
Well, nothing seems to have changed. The world is still
revolving around it's axis and Mathew Milam is _not_ at the
center of it.
Now if I were to speculate, the difference here is that
no one is making blanket accusations about every reader of
AFF nor of the entire Furry Fandom. The original post is
just a personal message to an individual followed by broad
appeal to who-knows. I know not the target individual nor
the author. Nothing disturbing about it being here though.
===========================================================
Victry 'Vixy' Hyzenthlay
___________________
/ \ _
)""""\___ | - - - - - - - - - - | |_\____
)----| |\-| Vivacious Vixen-II |-/| | |\
)____|___|===========================| """|_)
`----` \| http://www.cris.com/~Vixy/|/"""""
"""|"""""""/"""\"""""""|"""
Vixy{nospam}@- `=++++=" "=++++=' -hot;mail.com
FCFc2wAC-D+dH-M++P++R+T+++W+Z++Sf++RLEaC++nd++e++h+i+p+sf+
Doodles
[bunny looks around cross-eyed]
Vas ist los?
Would you mind taking this private and explaining to me just _what_ in
the nine names of Buddah you speak of? Just remove the cheezies from my
e-mail address.
Unca Spooge, boggled.
no one in particular
MMilam wrote:
>
> In article <348882...@PSAMTHISyahoo.com>, Atara says...
> other groups of furs were not accepted. Since this "Mark Melino" thing has found
> some replies, i'm begin to question wheter any of what was said to me in the
> last month was not to slience me.
>
> (New email in a little while...)
Gotta say I agree here as far as flame wars go. This is going
to threaten to bring back the whole "ConFurence 8/Ed Kline's Letter"
bullshit
from a while back. This is the last thing we need. Ed Kline made some
first-hand observations and that's fine. And some others have too. Some
believe that the talk of second-hand acts can be dismissed as heresay,
but the fact is that a large enough number of people have claimed that
the whole thing is attracting people who make no bones about being
interested soley for sex and not for anthropomorphics to merit serious
consideration. If this is solely a matter of Mr. Merlino's handling
of the situation, then fine, but take it up in e-mail or postal mail.
It has been said that this person ignores such concerns in private such
that public airing is necessary as a last ditch effort. Given the
go-around
last time, it seems he either ignored the public comment and flames,
or did something and it is not apparent. I do not know either way. All
I do know is that this has to stop before everyone ends up at the
bleachers and we hear nothing but the chirping of crickets and the
slopping of spam in a.f.f.
I myself plan on hosting a convention someday and make the
promise that any adult behavior allowed will be sanctioned and held
in the night hours for adults only. Creation did this in NYC in 89
when they had the Trek actors do a cabaret of their own performances
which was uncensored. Adult artwork would be restricted to one area.
On-site obscene behavior would not be allowed. What happens elsewhere
is not in my control. If ConFurence is truly ending up badly, and
no one in charge is listening or acting, then perhaps those who are
against the behavior in question can organize their own competing
convention with controls from the start. But beginning the flamewar
again isn't going to help.
-Wayd Wolf, who's had enough of this...
Curtis Family
Pardon me, who are you and what have you done for Furry Fandom?
Mark created and hosts the longest running convention for our genre. Mark
is not perfect, but neither am I and neither are you.
And what is with this "You know what you've done" crap? Wasn't that the
title of a cheap horror movie a few years back?
This childish "he's so bad" crap is what makes us look like a bunch of
arrested adolescents.
Extremely
Mike Curtis
SHANDA FANTASY ARTS
Jim Arthur <ja...@mort.com> wrote in article <348858...@sixteen.com>...
Lisa Jennings
Farlo wrote:
> Allen Kitchen wrote:
> > Mark runs Confurence.
> Oh. Much thanks Allen! >^_^<
Maybe someone out there didn't know that little fact? *shrug*
> > As for what others are po'd about, my secondhand understanding
> > is he supposedly thinks "furry" means "sex".
> Uh oh. That's a problem.
A better explaination is that he feels the attraction of furry _for him_
is regarding its sexuality. This doesn't mean all 1200 attendees of the
con drops clothes and start an orgy in the lobby, so don't worry about
that.
> > I'll make up my own mind when I go this year.
> It's going to be my first confurence, too.
Oooh! Fresh toys! :3
> > I know several furs, some artists, who refuse to return to Confurence as
> > long as Mark Merlino runs it. I'm going there to have fun, not worry about
> > politics.
> Same here - fun is #1, politics doesn't rank on the horizon...
Well, _I_ am attending, and I've been there since CF0 if that helps your
mind any.
> > I won't rub anyone's muzzle in my sexuality. I ask the same in
> > return. We'll see how it goes...
> Well, I purrsonally would like to be noticed by the ladies,
> but i'm very shy in public ...
Hmm... time for the ermine to go a'dragon hunting? :3
> I'm sure that most everyone will behave themselves, tho.
They have in past years... but as it so often happens, it just takes a
couple of problem-children to make the rest of the group look bad.
Ignore them.
> Speaking of shyness, i'm bringing definately bring my "Dragoncam",
> and maybe also my Kodak DC-40 digital camera.
(Micole grins, remembering a certain 'cam' at CFE1 and the fun she
had...)
> CF9 is going to be fun!
I certainly _hope_ you have fun.... that is, after all, the point. No
matter _who_ is running it.
ermine
Farlo
Lisa Jennings wrote:
>
> > Allen Kitchen wrote:
> > > Mark runs Confurence.
Nope. I didn't - so it was odd to see the original post, to say the
least.
>
> A better explaination is that he feels the attraction of furry _for him_
> is regarding its sexuality.
Oh. *Shrug* Entitled to his opinion, like anybody else.
As long as he's not cramming it down my throat, i'll be fine.
>
> Oooh! Fresh toys! :3
>Grin - I imagine that I should be worried<
>What will befall the little dragon? Stay tuned...<
>... till Post CF9 ... <
>
> Well, _I_ am attending, and I've been there since CF0 if that helps your
> mind any.
*Nodnod*
>
> Hmm... time for the ermine to go a'dragon hunting? :3
*Nodnod* Please do ...
I'd really like to meet you and many of the others here!
>
> > I'm sure that most everyone will behave themselves, tho.
>
> They have in past years... but as it so often happens, it just takes a
> couple of problem-children to make the rest of the group look bad.
> Ignore them.
I will - unless they're fun, i'm generally kinda tolerant.
(Sorta like Admiral-ly Understanding).
> > CF9 is going to be fun!
>
> I certainly _hope_ you have fun.... that is, after all, the point. No
> matter _who_ is running it.
Thank you!
--
Farlo m>*_*<m
Farlo's pages >>> Http://users.abac.com/Standard
My E-MAIL FILTER will route mail with "FUR" in the subject
to my priority e-mail folder.
Current items in my KILL FILTER:
There are no items in my kill filter.
jag...@netcom.com
Jim Arthur <ja...@mort.com> wrote:
> What goes around comes around, Mark. There are those who know exactly
> what you have done and what you enjoy. You and all those close to you,
> and all those once close to you, know exactly what I mean. You're lucky
> it's remained only rumor this long.
>
> Stop holding your convention year after year, and make some effort to
> repair the shit you've created. Please. For your sake, and for
> others. What goes around comes around. Don't you realize that?
>
> And if Mark doesn't, which one of you has the balls to step forward?
First off, I am not weighing in on ANY side of this debate, which has
been discussed before, NEVER to any conclusion, since there is no solid
evidence. Having said that...
When speaking publically about things that may be considered bad or
possibly that might be construed as violating certain laws or principles,
be certain that you have solid, verifiable evidence to back up those
claims. If you cannot do that, then I would suggest looking up the
definitions of "libel" and "slander".
If you want to discuss a possible problem or complaint, then it had better
be made either via e-mail, or by US mail. If unsubtantiated claims are
made in a public forum, then you might be opening up yourself to legal
actions by the person or group you are attempting to malign.
If you want to use vague attacks to go after unsubstantiated rumours,
don't do it in a public forum. All that does is push an agenda, and
attempt to sway people who do not know the facts with possibly false
propaganda. Get verifiable facts and evidence, and then you can proceed.
--
Glen Wooten
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| primary: jag...@netcom.com | secondary: glen....@fanciful.org |
_____________________________________________________________________
| Terrie's web page: http://users.aol.com/amperprodx/littlepaw.html |
_____________________________________________________________________
Rainshadow
My sense for obscure english references picked up something in that fake email
address just now... "Morte 'd Arthur" is the original title of John Dunne's
(is that right?) classic english (as in way old) literature piece about
King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, the one that is considered
to be the first written record of the King Arthur legend... methinks this is
the same bloke who posted as "rm...@dada.net" or whatever, the one Richard
de Wylfin recognized as a pun...
So whoever this dude is, he's somewhat learned...
-Rain'
jag...@netcom.com
Jim Arthur <ja...@mort.com> wrote:
> What goes around comes around, Mark. There are those who know exactly
> what you have done and what you enjoy. You and all those close to you,
> and all those once close to you, know exactly what I mean. You're lucky
> it's remained only rumor this long.
>
> Stop holding your convention year after year, and make some effort to
> repair the shit you've created. Please. For your sake, and for
> others. What goes around comes around. Don't you realize that?
>
> And if Mark doesn't, which one of you has the balls to step forward?
First off, I am not weighing in on ANY side of this debate, which has
been discussed before, NEVER to any conclusion, since there is no solid
evidence. Having said that...
When speaking publically about things that may be considered bad or
possibly that might be construed as violating certain laws or principles,
be certain that you have solid, verifiable evidence to back up those
claims. If you cannot do that, then I would suggest looking up the
definitions of "libel" and "slander".
If you want to discuss a possible problem or complaint, then it had better
be made either via e-mail, or by US mail. If unsubtantiated claims are
made in a public forum, then you might be opening up yourself to legal
actions by the person or group you are attempting to malign.
If you want to use vague attacks to go after unsubstantiated rumours, don't
do it in a public forum. All that does is push an agenda, and attempt to
sway people who do not know the facts with propaganda. Get verifiable
Captain Packrat
On 6 Dec 1997 08:39:00 -0700, Doodles <doo...@cheezies.primenet.com>
wrote:
lots stuff snipped.
> Just remove the cheezies from my e-mail address.
Captain sneaks up and helps himself to the cheezies. ;)
.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Captain Packrat |
| (Captain on FurryMUCK and FurToonia) |
| |
| Fur Central ---> http://www.personal.isat.com/captpackrat/ |
| Plush Central ---> http://www.personal.isat.com/captpackrat/plush/ |
| |
| Furry Code 1.2 (available from Fur Central) |
| FRM/R4 A+++ C>+ D++ H+++ M+++ P++++ R+ T++++ W Z++>+++ |
| Sm+ RLCT* a cn++ d- e+ f++++ h+ iwf+++ |
| |
| If you're furry and you know it, Hug the Mouse! |
| |
| O. .O |
| ==V== |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Gadd
Jim Arthur <ja...@mort.com> wrote:
>What goes around comes around, Mark. There are those who know exactly
>what you have done and what you enjoy. You and all those close to you,
>and all those once close to you, know exactly what I mean. You're lucky
>it's remained only rumor this long.
>Stop holding your convention year after year, and make some effort to
>repair the shit you've created. Please. For your sake, and for
>others. What goes around comes around. Don't you realize that?
>And if Mark doesn't, which one of you has the balls to step forward?
Starting a little early this year, aren't we?
I reckon good on you Mark for holding Confurence - otherwise I'd be
staying in a hotel in LA for 4 days for no particular reason, which
seems silly.
rans...@au-au.extern.ucsd.edu (Rainshadow) wrote:
>> Jim Arthur <ja...@mort.com> wrote in article <348858...@sixteen.com>...
>My sense for obscure english references picked up something in that fake email
>address just now... "Morte 'd Arthur" is the original title of John Dunne's
>(is that right?)
It's by Mallory, based mainly on 12th century French sources.
> classic english (as in way old) literature piece about
>King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, the one that is considered
>to be the first written record of the King Arthur legend... methinks this is
>the same bloke who posted as "rm...@dada.net" or whatever, the one Richard
>de Wylfin recognized as a pun...
>So whoever this dude is, he's somewhat learned...
--
Tim Gadd
Hobart, Tasmania
Change 'northcom' to 'southcom' in my address
jag...@netcom.com
MMilam wrote:
> In article <jaguar1E...@netcom.com>, jag...@netcom.com says...
> >
> >If you want to discuss a possible problem or complaint, then it had better
> >be made either via e-mail, or by US mail. If unsubtantiated claims are
> >made in a public forum, then you might be opening up yourself to legal
> >actions by the person or group you are attempting to malign.
>
> lega action. Some idiot tried to get my isp to shut my account down over a
> stupid trick i pulled. I'm off there now, but not because of what the person in
> question did. Luckly the president explained the policy of his company is to not
> interfer with discussions, especially flamed ones.
No one is talking about you. I am pointing out the legal ramifications
because in previous incarnations of this arguement, there have been
libelous & slanderous statements made (by people who are known to a large
portion of the fandom - NOT a possible faked name). I am merely pointing
out that if people weigh in in the "Let's Get Mark!" side with a lot of
rumours & made-up statements, they are asking for trouble.
> >If you want to use vague attacks to go after unsubstantiated rumours, don't
> >do it in a public forum.
>
> Maybe he isn't making a rumor or an attack without cause, maybe he's right.
> Don't always dismiss that side of the story yet.
Since no solid evidence has ever been presented of actions specific
people have made, then it's all rumours and/or lies. If someone (as
paraphrased from a previous statement) has the balls to come forward and
present some evidence of criminal wrong-doings, then let that person come
forward. Evidence that will stand up in a court of law, not "I was told
by someone who said someone saw..."
> >Get verifiable facts and evidence, and then you can proceed.
>
> Strange, I had verifiable facts and evidence.
Please see previous statement...
Mark Atwood
Jim Arthur <ja...@mort.com> writes:
< VAGUE AND MYSTERIOUS ACCUSATIONS SNIPPED >
Damn, someone started the annual CF flamewar a month early.
Hey, "Jim", only the immature, the deranged, the `net-kooks and the
stupidly criminal do public "I know what you did" blackmail sort of
things. If you have an accusation, make it. If you don't, shut your
hole.
I'd plonk you, except I don't quite believe "Jim Arthur <ja...@mort.com>"
is a real account.
I don't know Mark, I enjoy ConFurence, and this LONG running complaint
(sans any real accusations (other than "He's icky!")) got REALLY old
over 5 years ago.
--
Mark Atwood | Thank you gentlemen, you are everything we have come to
z...@ampersand.com | expect from years of government training. -- MIB Zed
WalksFar
On Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:27:09 GMT, jag...@netcom.com wrote:
>Jim Arthur <ja...@mort.com> wrote:
>> What goes around comes around, Mark. There are those who know exactly
>> what you have done and what you enjoy. You and all those close to you,
>> and all those once close to you, know exactly what I mean. You're lucky
>> it's remained only rumor this long.
>>
>> Stop holding your convention year after year, and make some effort to
>> repair the shit you've created. Please. For your sake, and for
>> others. What goes around comes around. Don't you realize that?
>>
>> And if Mark doesn't, which one of you has the balls to step forward?
>
>First off, I am not weighing in on ANY side of this debate, which has
>been discussed before, NEVER to any conclusion, since there is no solid
>evidence. Having said that...
>
>When speaking publically about things that may be considered bad or
>possibly that might be construed as violating certain laws or principles,
>be certain that you have solid, verifiable evidence to back up those
>claims. If you cannot do that, then I would suggest looking up the
>definitions of "libel" and "slander".
>
>If you want to discuss a possible problem or complaint, then it had better
>be made either via e-mail, or by US mail. If unsubtantiated claims are
>made in a public forum, then you might be opening up yourself to legal
>actions by the person or group you are attempting to malign.
>
>If you want to use vague attacks to go after unsubstantiated rumours, don't
>do it in a public forum. All that does is push an agenda, and attempt to
>sway people who do not know the facts with propaganda. Get verifiable
>facts and evidence, and then you can proceed.
>
>--
>Glen Wooten
"Who is this arthur person, anyway? He speaks in vague terms
of things he will not allude to. Unless he wishes to be clear as to
his meanings, then let him stop his discourse! We have enough to do,
all of us who LIKE ConFurence and want it to continue and get better,
and do not need him!"
WalksFar, curious as to why the diatribes against Mark . . . .
Rivercoon
>What goes around comes around, Mark. There are those who know exactly
what
>you have done and what you enjoy. You and all those close to you,
and all
>those once close to you, know exactly what I mean. You're lucky
it's remained
>only rumor this long.
Stop holding your convention year after year, and make
>some effort to
repair the shit you've created. Please. For your sake, and
>for
others. What goes around comes around. Don't you realize that?
And if
>Mark doesn't, which one of you has the balls to step forward?
If your intention is really to send Mark a message rather than just rant about
him in public I suggest emailing him directly or posting this were he is likely
to see it. He does not regularly read AFF, if at all.
CalAnim8R
>> As for what others are po'd about, my secondhand >understanding>is he
I'd discount it as hearsay.) I >don't know if he is truly>trying to turn the
fandom into a big >spoogefest or not. But that is what some furs are worried
about. >That, and the supposed bad image it creates<<
*snip*
A Normal's Introduction to Furry
I was at LosCon in Los Angeles just a few weeks ago. Browsing the party
board, I noticed there was only one 'furry' party advertised; the one that was
sponsored by ConFurence's Mark Merlino and Rod O'Riley. 'Food, Fun and
Furries!' promised the flier. So I decided to take a look, to see what being
furry is all about.
The door to the party was closed, so I opened it and entered. I looked around
the room. There was a table with pamphlets and publishings, along with binders
of artwork by various popular furry artists. I love cartoons, let's open the
books and see.
Gaah! There's a lot of pornography and X-rated artwork in those books, like
maybe 70%. There was no warning label on the covers; it was just like, haha,
surprise! And in one of the books there was animal pedophilia, bestiality and
Disney lions copulating. So this is what furry's all about.
I looked at some more pamphlets and was confused by one small green one. It
said "Live the Dream: Upcoming Events". It was about 'Alternative Lifestyles'.
Group marriages, Threesomes, and multiple relationships." Hmm. So 'being
furry' is about multiple relationships and group marriage.
There was a sort of stapled handout that was supposed to define what 'furry'
means as well. "A collection of words about the furry phenomenon" it said,
along with "This may shed some light on what we furries are about, and perhaps
peak the interest of some...to explore further." "Enclosed is a flyer for the
media convention/social gathering that Rod and I have been directing for
years.", meaning, ConFurence.
The flyer went on, "Here is a definition of 'furry', taken from a T-shirt..."
"4. A lifestyle revolving around a love and emulation of furries."
There were some other articles in the flyer about 'modern totems' and 'breaking
the news to your parents'. There was the first page of a story titled "The One
Lioness", apparently based on Merlino's role-playing character. As a footnote,
Merlino notes that he has since met many fellow role-players in person through
this muck, and "currently reside in our home".
So, based on these pamphlets, flyers and collections of artwork that was
representing what furry is all about, I came to the conclusion that
A. Furry is about 'alternative lifestyles'.
but more predominantly,
B. Furry is about sex.
What conclusions would any norm reach after this?
I know the one I've reached...stay away from ConFurence.
Only because I'm educated about the fandom can I not say "Furries must all be
perverts."
-An Animator who likes some furry stuff.
P.S. Sorry if this post turns out to be flameworthy. You can flame me in
private if you wish. It's just that it's too bad that Mark Merlino has made
'furry' out to be so squicky, and I'm wishing he'd stop.
Allen Kitchen
Lisa Jennings <NoS...@MyPlace.com> wrote in article
<348A2631...@MyPlace.com>...
> Farlo wrote:
> > > As for what others are po'd about, my secondhand
understanding
> > > is he supposedly thinks "furry" means "sex".
> > Uh oh. That's a problem.
>
> A better explaination is that he feels the attraction of furry _for him_
> is regarding its sexuality. This doesn't mean all 1200 attendees of the
> con drops clothes and start an orgy in the lobby, so don't worry about
> that.
Well, we shall see. The wife (who is mundane and not attending)
is VERY worried about me going to this. See what one person trumpeting
can do? How many other average furs can't make it because of one
furson trying to make his opinion become that of the con?
> > > I'll make up my own mind when I go this year.
> > It's going to be my first confurence, too.
> Oooh! Fresh toys! :3
I'm hardly fresh. I'm normally quite polite. :)
But within certain restrictions, I can be a fun wolftoy. :)
> Well, _I_ am attending, and I've been there since CF0 if that helps your
> mind any.
I've seen your art milady. And I hope to kiss your paw while
there. But it does little to ease my worries as I do not know you
personally.
But I'm still going, as my Recon team in CF8 reported nothing squicky
either.
> I certainly _hope_ you have fun.... that is, after all, the point. No
> matter _who_ is running it.
yes, that is the entire objective :)
> ermine
Vinson Mink
Furry = Sex...
Um, can anyone point out an actual occurence of either of us actually saying
this, to anyone?
Furry = Furry.
ROR
Wondering about people blatantly insulting his life mate...
Vinson Mink
To Mike Curtis:
Thanks Mike.
ROR
*hug*
D. A. Graf
Vinson Mink <vin...@netcom.com> wrote:
: Furry = Sex...
: Furry = Furry.
: ROR
ConDor 97. A late night panel. Mark Merlino stated: We all emulate
animals to explore our sexuality. Direct quotation.
Witnessed by: Jeff Ferris, James Birdsall, Fred Patten, Robert Torres,
Michele Gault, Michael Danaher (sp?), Jefferson Swycaffer, and myself.
The other three or four who were at the panel I don't know as I had never
seen them before.
Fred Patten commented to me that you, Rod, came up to him and told him
that Mark never said that. How would *you* know? *You* were *not* on the
panel or even in the room that night. Fred was, as were the people I
listed. This was witnessed.
The reporter from Marie Claire also gained this same impression when she
was at SDCC and spoke to me extensively. I've read the article, I know I
wasn't quoted or any of what I said was used. However, when she asked me
how I was introduced to the fur fandom, I told her: 1984 I was at a fur
party Mark threw, came with Terrie Smith. Mark handed to me a book full
of sexual illos and said: This is what the fandom is all about. The
reporter looked poleaxed, then leaned in and told me that Mark had just
done the same to her. Handed her a few books filled with pin up to real
hardcore work, stating: This is what the fandom is.
That's two. Others have stated the same thing has happened to them. Then
there is the posting from the person who went to the fur party at Loscon
this year. Another witness.
So, he has done this, very recently. It has been witnessed.
NOTE: Any flames and hate email or pmail will be ignored and deleted.
--Tygger
--
******************************************************************************
gr...@primenet.com
*** Fantasy, Dark Fantasy, Horror, Erotica Artist/Cartoonist***
*** Checkout the revisions at http://www.furnation.com/tygger ***
*** Creator of Guardian Knights heroic/dark fantasy/horror comic series***
******************************************************************************
"`Cause its easier to try
Than to prove it can't be done.
And its easier to stay
Than to turn around and run."
Blue World, The Moody Blues
real address is in signature
I've been around anthro fandom for 10 years now. Someone threatens a
lawsuit every couple of weeks somewhere for something.
I only know of one that actually was legally filed. That was many years
ago, and it never got to court as there was insufficient evidence.
90% of usenet is inaccurate information or outright slander. Less than
1% of it is actually news. Many newsreaders respond by saying "posting
article" when you say something. This one time really WAS news, but now
only a moderated newsgroup can be called such.
AFF, know it or not, is rather heavily moderated by three people that I
know of, but for the most part they just kill spam postings (ever notice
there aren't any?) Occasionally a whole thread will disappear, but it's
relatively rare. the huzzah server will not accept cancel messages and
it's interesting to compare sometimes.
Flames only cause as much damage as you want to let them. It's like
putting a "beware of dog" sign in your front yard and then hanging a
picture of a doberman on your front door.
real address is in signature
Well, that post neither says specifically what is wrong, nor suggests
anything to correct it.
It did start a flame thread though, as messages like that usually do.
Really productive! like everything on usenet.
real address is in signature
"I know what you did last summer" is actually in theaters now.
My guess is that that vague posting resulted from something on one of
the mucks. It sounded liek the person writing the post had never even
been to one of the conventions!
The email address seems to be real though - it may be going to /dev/null
but it isn't bouncing.
Jim Doolittle
In article <66k5u0$1nr$1...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net>,
dontspa...@webtv.net (real address is in signature) wrote:
> AFF, know it or not, is rather heavily moderated by three people that I
> know of, but for the most part they just kill spam postings (ever notice
> there aren't any?) Occasionally a whole thread will disappear, but it's
> relatively rare. the huzzah server will not accept cancel messages and
> it's interesting to compare sometimes.
Quite frankly, this doesn't bother me in the least. I don't care for spam
postings, and am quite glad to be rid of them. I haven't seen any
instances of major threads dissapearing without warning, and I don't
expect it to happen in the future. It's all about trust...
-Jim, who wouldn't mind seeing a.f.f become officially moderated. Too much
hassle, though...
--
Jim Doolittle
dool...@uiuc.edu
gi...@betterbox.net
http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/doolittl
PGP 5.0 public key available
Curtis Family
CalAnim8R <cala...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971208052...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>
> A Normal's Introduction to Furry
>
> I was at LosCon in Los Angeles just a few weeks ago. Browsing the party
> board, I noticed there was only one 'furry' party advertised; the one
that was
> sponsored by ConFurence's Mark Merlino and Rod O'Riley. 'Food, Fun and
> Furries!' promised the flier. So I decided to take a look, to see what
being
> furry is all about.
>
> The door to the party was closed, so I opened it and entered.
So you entered of your own free will.
I looked around
> the room. There was a table with pamphlets and publishings, along with
binders
> of artwork by various popular furry artists. I love cartoons, let's open
the
> books and see.
>
> Gaah! There's a lot of pornography and X-rated artwork in those books,
like
> maybe 70%. There was no warning label on the covers; it was just like,
haha,
> surprise! And in one of the books there was animal pedophilia,
bestiality and
> Disney lions copulating. So this is what furry's all about.
You know, I can go to my local Hastings and pick up a Playboy or Hustler.
It has naked women in it.
Gee, I guess all Hastings sells is pornography.
>
> I looked at some more pamphlets and was confused by one small green one.
It
> said "Live the Dream: Upcoming Events". It was about 'Alternative
Lifestyles'.
> Group marriages, Threesomes, and multiple relationships." Hmm. So
'being
> furry' is about multiple relationships and group marriage.
This story is beginning to remind me of the five blind men and the
elephant......
You know, I think you went in that room looking for something and found it.
Did anyone twist your arm to open those books? Plus did you read ALL of
them or just the "tittilating" parts. Yes, sex is a large subject in
furrydom. It isn't the only one. Most black books have a subject at the
first stating the theme. I think you found the books you wanted to look at
most.
> I know the one I've reached...stay away from ConFurence.
>
Maybe YOU should stay away from Confurence..... Go instead to a Trek con
and read some slash fiction.
> Only because I'm educated about the fandom can I not say "Furries must
all be
> perverts."
>
> -An Animator who likes some furry stuff.
>
> P.S. Sorry if this post turns out to be flameworthy. You can flame me
in
> private if you wish. It's just that it's too bad that Mark Merlino has
made
> 'furry' out to be so squicky, and I'm wishing he'd stop.
>
I am too much of a gentleman to say what I think of this Nazi post on aff.
Allen Kitchen
Curtis Family <shan...@cyberback.com> wrote in article
<01bd04e2$3bc61840$df6d0fd0@shanda>...
> CalAnim8R <cala...@aol.com> wrote in article
> <19971208052...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>
> > A Normal's Introduction to Furry
> > Gaah! There's a lot of pornography and X-rated artwork in those books,
> like
> > maybe 70%. There was no warning label on the covers; it was just like,
> haha,
> > surprise! And in one of the books there was animal pedophilia,
> bestiality and
> > Disney lions copulating. So this is what furry's all about.
>
> You know, I can go to my local Hastings and pick up a Playboy or Hustler.
> It has naked women in it.
>
> Gee, I guess all Hastings sells is pornography.
To be fair, at least when you open a Hustler, you aren't barraged
with images of mickey mouse and barney. If someone got such a mag,
I imagine furious wouldn't even begin to describe the purchaser. I'm
confident CalAnim8r felt a similar shock. She/he likes cartoons, and
isn't looking for sex, but has it "rammed down the eyesockets."
I'm no prude. And erotica (and even some spooge) have their
place. But it is NOT what ALL furrydom is about. And it is courtesy
(even smart) to give some kind of warning. What if some senator's
daughter had wandered in there, looked at the cartoons, then told daddy
what she saw? Don't we have enough trouble?
Be careful when you claim to represent all the fandom. There is
not one among you who speaks for me. And I'd hate to see the genre
I've grown to love get ruined by selfish people, no matter what their
cause. Cal hung around and looked, so the shock couldn't have been
too great. At the same time there is no need for "Stealth spooge." If
you are brave enough to show your work, then show it. There is no
need to waylay folks.
> I am too much of a gentleman to say what I think of this Nazi post on
aff.
And frankly, I'm a bit surprised to hear the word 'nazi' tossed
about from you sir. My opinion of you is higher than that...
> Mike Curtis
> SHANDA FANTASY ARTS
Allen Kitchen
all...@blkbox.com
http://www.blkbox.com/~osprey/
Farlo
real address is in signature wrote:
>
> AFF, know it or not, is rather heavily moderated by three people that I
> know of, but for the most part they just kill spam postings (ever notice
> there aren't any?)
I hadn't, but, now that it's been mentioned
... Hurray for the moderators!
... Hurray for AFF!
Good job!
--
Farlo m>*_*<m
Urban Fey Dragon
Adding "FUR" to the subject line will route replies
to my Priority folder.
Patrick C. Jones
cala...@aol.com (CalAnim8R) wrote:
>*snip*
>A Normal's Introduction to Furry
*Buzzsaw!*
>So, based on these pamphlets, flyers and collections of artwork that was
>representing what furry is all about, I came to the conclusion that
>A. Furry is about 'alternative lifestyles'.
> but more predominantly,
>B. Furry is about sex.
[Hmm. "Lifestyling" and "Porno". Ya know, when I see only the extreme
interpretations on a subject, I go looking for the moderates. They're
usually bound and gagged in a corner somewhere :p///3 ]
>P.S. Sorry if this post turns out to be flameworthy. You can flame me in
>private if you wish. It's just that it's too bad that Mark Merlino has made
>'furry' out to be so squicky, and I'm wishing he'd stop.
[No such luck, my automatic CO2 flame-extinguisher is working
perf...<FOOOOOOSSSSHHH!!!!!!!!>]
Vinson Mink
In article <66k57q$1m2$1...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net>,
Button I'm fond of... "UseNet is like Tetris for those of us who still
remember how to read..."
ROR
Timothy Fay
Jim Doolittle wrote:
>
> In article <66k5u0$1nr$1...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net>,
> dontspa...@webtv.net (real address is in signature) wrote:
>
> > Occasionally a whole thread will disappear, but it's
> > relatively rare. the huzzah server will not accept cancel messages and
> > it's interesting to compare sometimes.
>
> Quite frankly, this doesn't bother me in the least. I don't care for spam
> postings, and am quite glad to be rid of them. I haven't seen any
> instances of major threads dissapearing without warning, and I don't
> expect it to happen in the future. It's all about trust...
>
> -Jim, who wouldn't mind seeing a.f.f become officially moderated. Too much
> hassle, though...
Yeah. The biggest hassle is finding someone neutral enough that
everyone
could trust.
As much of a pain as this newsgroup can be, it's still better that it is
un-moderated (except for the spam, and I'm not sure I'm entirely
comfortable
with that). Any form of 'moderation' after the fact is simply
censorship,
and we've had enough of that sort of talk from Sen. Exon and the U.S.
Congress, thank you very much.
-Tim
---
Remove the "delete..this.." in my address to reply.
http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/m279/fayxx001/
no one in particular
Allen Kitchen wrote:
>
> Lisa Jennings <NoS...@MyPlace.com> wrote in article
> <348A2631...@MyPlace.com>...
> > Farlo wrote:
> > > > As for what others are po'd about, my secondhand
> understanding
> > > > is he supposedly thinks "furry" means "sex".
> > > Uh oh. That's a problem.
> >
> > A better explaination is that he feels the attraction of furry _for him_
> > is regarding its sexuality. This doesn't mean all 1200 attendees of the
> > con drops clothes and start an orgy in the lobby, so don't worry about
> > that.
>
> Well, we shall see. The wife (who is mundane and not attending)
> is VERY worried about me going to this. See what one person trumpeting
> can do? How many other average furs can't make it because of one
> furson trying to make his opinion become that of the con?
>
> > > > I'll make up my own mind when I go this year.
> > > It's going to be my first confurence, too.
> > Oooh! Fresh toys! :3
>
> I'm hardly fresh. I'm normally quite polite. :)
> But within certain restrictions, I can be a fun wolftoy. :)
<VOICE STYLE:KEVIN MEANY>You should be ashamed of yourself!
Not brining your wife and saying such things.</VOICE>
Seriously though, there are some things I don't need to
picture. And that whole thing I accidentally started has degenerated
into a discussion of the physics of flying female anatomy and...
Oh, man, where's my Prozac?!
-Wayd Wolf, who needs a nap...
>
> Shockwave
> Allen Kitchen
no one in particular
Farlo wrote:
>
> real address is in signature wrote:
> >
> > AFF, know it or not, is rather heavily moderated by three people that I
> > know of, but for the most part they just kill spam postings (ever notice
> > there aren't any?)
>
> I hadn't, but, now that it's been mentioned
>
> ... Hurray for the moderators!
> ... Hurray for AFF!
>
> Good job!
>
> --
> Farlo m>*_*<m
More like de-spammed at olsy-na.com and fysh.org and so on.
Furs seem to be heaviest there, so less spam is observed in propogation.
Not a bad deal. We owe these people a lot.
-Wayd Wolf
Leah Verre
>
> You know, I think you went in that room looking for something and found
it.
> Did anyone twist your arm to open those books? Plus did you read ALL of
> them or just the "tittilating" parts. Yes, sex is a large subject in
> furrydom. It isn't the only one. Most black books have a subject at
the
> first stating the theme. I think you found the books you wanted to look
at
> most.
> I am too much of a gentleman to say what I think of this Nazi post on
aff.
>
>
> Mike Curtis
> SHANDA FANTASY ARTS
> >
>
I found nothing "Naziesque" about the post above. I have no idea where you
drew that particular conclusion.
Many people, Mike ... MANY people have had similar experiences as the one
the poster was referring to.
WalksFar
On 6 Dec 1997 02:08:48 GMT, "Allen Kitchen" <allen...@blkbox.com>
wrote:
>
>
>Farlo <stan...@abac.com> wrote in article <348858...@abac.com>...
>> HUH!??
>>
>> Where'd that come from?
>>
>
> Mark runs Confurence.
>
> As for what others are po'd about, my secondhand understanding
>is he supposedly thinks "furry" means "sex". I've been told by several
>folks (else I'd discount it as hearsay.) I don't know if he is truly
>trying to
>turn the fandom into a big spoogefest or not. But that is what some furs
>are worried about. That, and the supposed bad image it creates.
> I'll make up my own mind when I go this year. Yes, there are
>sensuous sides to being furry. But it is not the end all be all of
>furriness.
>I know several furs, some artists, who refuse to return to Confurence as
>long as Mark Merlino runs it. I'm going there to have fun, not worry about
>politics.
> I won't rub anyone's muzzle in my sexuality. I ask the same in
>return. We'll see how it goes...
>
>Shockwave
"Good for you! I know exactly what they insinuate and have
seen a bit of that at various times. I go to have fun, peruse art,
and have fun with my friends . . . Some of whom I cannot get together
with at any other time."
WalksFar . . . .
WalksFar
On 9 Dec 1997 20:37:04 GMT, "Curtis Family" <shan...@cyberback.com>
wrote:
>
>
>CalAnim8R <cala...@aol.com> wrote in article
><19971208052...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>
>>
>> A Normal's Introduction to Furry
>>
>> I was at LosCon in Los Angeles just a few weeks ago. Browsing the party
>> board, I noticed there was only one 'furry' party advertised; the one
>that was
>> sponsored by ConFurence's Mark Merlino and Rod O'Riley. 'Food, Fun and
>> Furries!' promised the flier. So I decided to take a look, to see what
>being
>> furry is all about.
>>
>> The door to the party was closed, so I opened it and entered.
>
>So you entered of your own free will.
>
> I looked around
>> the room. There was a table with pamphlets and publishings, along with
>binders
>> of artwork by various popular furry artists. I love cartoons, let's open
>the
>> books and see.
>>
>> Gaah! There's a lot of pornography and X-rated artwork in those books,
>like
>> maybe 70%. There was no warning label on the covers; it was just like,
>haha,
>> surprise! And in one of the books there was animal pedophilia,
>bestiality and
>> Disney lions copulating. So this is what furry's all about.
>
>You know, I can go to my local Hastings and pick up a Playboy or Hustler.
>It has naked women in it.
>
>Gee, I guess all Hastings sells is pornography.
>
>>
>> So, based on these pamphlets, flyers and collections of artwork that was
>> representing what furry is all about, I came to the conclusion that
>> A. Furry is about 'alternative lifestyles'.
>> but more predominantly,
>> B. Furry is about sex.
>>
>> What conclusions would any norm reach after this?
>
>You know, I think you went in that room looking for something and found it.
>Did anyone twist your arm to open those books? Plus did you read ALL of
>them or just the "tittilating" parts. Yes, sex is a large subject in
>furrydom. It isn't the only one. Most black books have a subject at the
>first stating the theme. I think you found the books you wanted to look at
>most.
>
>
>> I know the one I've reached...stay away from ConFurence.
>>
>
> Maybe YOU should stay away from Confurence..... Go instead to a Trek con
>and read some slash fiction.
>
>
>> Only because I'm educated about the fandom can I not say "Furries must
>all be
>> perverts."
>>
>> -An Animator who likes some furry stuff.
>>
>> P.S. Sorry if this post turns out to be flameworthy. You can flame me
>in
>> private if you wish. It's just that it's too bad that Mark Merlino has
>made
>> 'furry' out to be so squicky, and I'm wishing he'd stop.
>>
>
>I am too much of a gentleman to say what I think of this Nazi post on aff.
>
>
>Mike Curtis
>SHANDA FANTASY ARTS
>>
It seems to me we are doing exactly what we should not be
doing. ConFurence is what you make of it. These attacks on Merlino
and ConFurence serve only to bring it down and destroy what the fans
enjoy most about anthropomorphism. If one goes to ConFurence seeking
pornography, i am sure they will find it. If they go to meet friends
and enjoy themselves, I believe they will. If they go to learn
anthropomorphic art, costuming, animation, I KNOW they will!
We are who we are. Confurence has problems. Name a Fan
Convention that does NOT! That is best handled behind the scenes
taking the fan's interests and concerns into consideration. We bring
to conFurence our own perceptions and feelings. let us not poison
others because something does not particularly fit our "ways."
Walksfar, in agreement with Mike Curtis . . . .
WalksFar
On 9 Dec 1997 11:48:00 -0700, "D. A. Graf"
<REMOVEC...@TOEMAILREPLY.primenet.com> wrote:
"Hi, Sis!" WalksFar waves, then adds, "I have to agree. I
was around when incidences like this happened and have to agree that
Mark seems to push only the one side of anthropomorphism."
WalksFar, who has heard and seen enough before hand . . . .
Dale Farmer
WalksFar (walk...@psnw.com) wrote:
: On 9 Dec 1997 20:37:04 GMT, "Curtis Family" <shan...@cyberback.com>
: wrote:
: >CalAnim8R <cala...@aol.com> wrote in article
: ><19971208052...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
: >> A Normal's Introduction to Furry
: >>
: >> I was at LosCon in Los Angeles just a few weeks ago. Browsing the party
: >> board, I noticed there was only one 'furry' party advertised; the one
: >that was
: >> sponsored by ConFurence's Mark Merlino and Rod O'Riley. 'Food, Fun and
: >> Furries!' promised the flier. So I decided to take a look, to see what
: >being
: >> furry is all about.
: >> The door to the party was closed, so I opened it and entered.
: >So you entered of your own free will.
fans I know make a practice of visiting *every* party listed at a con.
: > (snip)
: >> Gaah! There's a lot of pornography and X-rated artwork in those books,
: >like
: >> maybe 70%. There was no warning label on the covers; it was just like,
: >>
: >> So, based on these pamphlets, flyers and collections of artwork that was
: >> representing what furry is all about, I came to the conclusion that
: >> A. Furry is about 'alternative lifestyles'.
: >> but more predominantly,
: >> B. Furry is about sex.
: >>
: >> What conclusions would any norm reach after this?
: >
: >You know, I think you went in that room looking for something and found it.
: >Did anyone twist your arm to open those books? Plus did you read ALL of
: >them or just the "tittilating" parts. Yes, sex is a large subject in
: >furrydom. It isn't the only one. Most black books have a subject at the
: >first stating the theme. I think you found the books you wanted to look at
: >most.
The random person walking into that party *has no expectations beyond what
was on the party flyer*. They don't have the background to even expect
that the black book laying there has a subject that they need to check
first, they look around the room and see people drawing/looking in the
books, and think "Ohh! pretty pictures!". Then they see some BDSM spooge
explosion, and BOOM, first impression has been formed. furry==kinky sex.
Now every mention of furry fandom will get put through that filter, and
slant applied. That person carrying a box of hardware for the art show
is, in that persons' mind, carrying bondage gear. And every person
wearing a collar, every PDA, everyone wearing revealing clothing, and
a black book or a furry themed tshirt will re-enforce that furry==sex
first impression.
So if you are holding a public "furry party" keep the X rated
stuff under control. Especially since if that random person in an
minor, letting them see that stuff *is* against the law.
: It seems to me we are doing exactly what we should not be
: doing. ConFurence is what you make of it. These attacks on Merlino
: and ConFurence serve only to bring it down and destroy what the fans
: enjoy most about anthropomorphism. If one goes to ConFurence seeking
: pornography, i am sure they will find it. If they go to meet friends
: and enjoy themselves, I believe they will. If they go to learn
: anthropomorphic art, costuming, animation, I KNOW they will!
:
: We are who we are. Confurence has problems. Name a Fan
: Convention that does NOT! That is best handled behind the scenes
: taking the fan's interests and concerns into consideration. We bring
: to conFurence our own perceptions and feelings. let us not poison
: others because something does not particularly fit our "ways."
:
: Walksfar, in agreement with Mike Curtis . . . .
The problem is that far too many attendees of confurence (I won't
call them furry fans, because that's not the reason that they came
to the con.) Don't have the minimal social grace needed to know
when it is time to *TAKE IT TO YOUR ROOM*! I don't begrudge anyone
the desire to indulge in whatever floats their boat, but please,
please, take it out of the public parts of the hotel and put it
in your room, behind a locked door. I don't think that is asking
too much of anybody.
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dale Farmer Da...@access.digex.net Personal opinion. Sudbury, Mass.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
matthew_milam
On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:24:48 -0800, dontspa...@webtv.net (real
address is in signature) wrote:
>I've been around anthro fandom for 10 years now. Someone threatens a
>lawsuit every couple of weeks somewhere for something.
I recently got one thrown at me from DLS, course i called the
president and told me it was not in his policy to enforce fights
between people on the net. Only if i was spamming (For those that are
thinking about it, I've changed providers).
>
>I only know of one that actually was legally filed. That was many years
>ago, and it never got to court as there was insufficient evidence.
Most lawsuits at Mcdonald's are like that.
>90% of usenet is inaccurate information or outright slander. Less than
>1% of it is actually news.
Where can i find that one percent, then i could possibly find people
to talk to rather than people who get mad at click of a button.
> Many newsreaders respond by saying "posting
>article" when you say something. This one time really WAS news, but now
>only a moderated newsgroup can be called such.
>
JMS was forced to leave his "moderated" newsgroup twice, I dont' know
if tha'ts neccessary good either.
>AFF, know it or not, is rather heavily moderated by three people that I
>know of, but for the most part they just kill spam postings (ever notice
>there aren't any?)
Those same three people make a point of wanting to call your ISP if
you are too intense with a subject. It is good the spam postings are
not in this newsgroup, however i have questions for the moderators of
this newsgroup which can be taken to email (For the heads of this
newsgroup that are listening, email me).
>>Flames only cause as much damage as you want to let them. It's like
>putting a "beware of dog" sign in your front yard and then hanging a
>picture of a doberman on your front door.
Some people turn subjects into flames in order to have them attract
less attenion.
Matthew Milam
mmilam@(delete the no spam)enteract.com
Matthew Milam
>
>As much of a pain as this newsgroup can be, it's still better that it is
>un-moderated (except for the spam, and I'm not sure I'm entirely
>comfortable
>with that). Any form of 'moderation' after the fact is simply
>censorship,
>and we've had enough of that sort of talk from Sen. Exon and the U.S.
>Congress, thank you very much.
>
>-Tim
>---
The Goverment doesn't have to censor anyone. People can do it as well.
--Matthew
cal...@goodnet.com
"D. A. Graf" <REMOVEC...@TOEMAILREPLY.primenet.com> wrote:
> Vinson Mink <vin...@netcom.com> wrote:
> : Furry = Sex...
> : Um, can anyone point out an actual occurence of either of us actually
> : saying this, to anyone?
> ConDor 97. A late night panel. Mark Merlino stated: We all emulate
> animals to explore our sexuality. Direct quotation.
I can confirm a similar case. At VegasCon 1, several years ago,
ConFurence had an "outreach" table where they were hawking CF merchandise
--- and, more importantly as regards this matter, a number of "black
books". To their credit, the ones with porn were marked as such, but at
the time I was still enough of a prude to blush hot red with shock at
things like (among dozens of other things) a Terrie Smith pic of a black
stallion masturbating in the snow. Extremely well- done, artistically,
but it really made me wonder if the fandom was something I wanted to get
involved with. Had I not first met the fandom through comics --- notably
Space Ark, Cerebus, and Red Shetland --- CF's table would have scared me
off. I mean LITERALLY scared me off. Thanks to my earlier exposure to
non-sex material, fortunately, I knew better than to assume that's all
there was to it, and today I don't have a problem with viewing such
material now that I've acclimatized myself to it.
Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of people in fandom who either
don't recall how *they* once reacted to this sort of thing, or if they
never had a problem with it they refuse to even bother trying to
understand how *other* people might feel about it. As far as they're
concerned, by and large, if a newcomer to the fandom is squicked by the
notion of a giant vixen masturbating on a skyscraper while ripping out
her own tonsils, well, that's HIS problem and the fandom is better off
without such "fascist prudes".
I also have to mention that I'm shocked at seeing Mike Curtis
responding to CalAnim8r using the term "Nazi"...having been gone from AFF
for a while, Cal's letter seemed to be a frank and up-front statement of
a very real human being's reaction to this sort of material when exposed
to it for the first time, and Mike bit Cal's head off for it. That wasn't
necessary, and it was quite close- minded. I haven't read the rest of my
catch-up posts yet, but I do hope Mike has since apologized, as I would
expect a man of his character to recognize and amend such an error.
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cal...@goodnet.com
In article <348f645a...@news.psnw.com>,
walk...@psnw.com (WalksFar) wrote:
> It seems to me we are doing exactly what we should not be
> doing. ConFurence is what you make of it. These attacks on Merlino
> and ConFurence serve only to bring it down and destroy what the fans
> enjoy most about anthropomorphism.
CalAnim8r's post was in no way construable as an "attack". It was, in
fact, the bald-faced truth. As for CF8, which I attended (as I attended
CF4-7, and shall attend CF9), I personally was treated to the sight of
someone in full-torso bondage gear, ball gag, and leash being "walked" by
someone else.
In the main lobby, next to the elevators.
Even in California, where I used to live, this sort of behavior --- in
public --- is rare to the point where any "norm" would be left to assume
they were "with the convention". W