Hot Rats Book
Daniel Norris
Sincerely sorry if you've all been over this a billion times, but
does anyone have any details on the release date of this book
on Barfko-Swill?:
This is a BRAND NEW BOOK with Authentic Transcriptions with Notes and
Tablature for HOT RATS!! This is #1 of a soon to be a huge
collection. Songs from the book include, Peaches en Regalia,
Willie the Pimp, Son of Mr. Green Genes, Little Umbrellas, The Gumbo
Variations and It Must Be A Camel. There is a introduction by Matt
Groening.
COMING SOON
The part about "soon to be a huge collection" sounds WAY too good to be
true... but I certainly hope it is!
Dan Norris
Lewis R. Saul
> does anyone have any details on the release date of this book
> on Barfko-Swill?:
Forget Barfko -- it's available all over...
Denis Griffin
Mine is already old, it's got coffee stains and candle wax on it...
Michael Gula
> This is #1 of a soon to be a huge
> collection.
Well, if they're going to do it, I wish they'd do it right. Hire
some Summa Cum Laude fresh out of Berklee with perfect pitch,
give him access to the multitrack master tapes, give him some
former Zappa musicians to consult with, and let him transcribe
all the guitar, keyboard and bass parts down to the last
nested-tuplet-over-the-barline.
There should be rock band arrangments of Zappa's most-loved
selections that can actually be used by musicians in performance.
I'm not interested in any more bare-bones, quickie guitar tab
books. Why would anyone want to learn to play the guitar solo in
Willie the Pimp, note for note?
Adrian Clark
> Hello, all -
> Sincerely sorry if you've all been over this a billion times, but
> does anyone have any details on the release date of this book
> on Barfko-Swill?:
Dunno about Barfko-Swill, but plenty of other online places already had
it. I bought mine from www.sheetmusicplus.com... only took 6 days, which
was pretty amazing seeing as it had to cross a big, cold, wet ocean to
get to me.
And once I have the time to sit down and digest the transcriptions
properly, I'll make some sort of coherent comment here...
Adrian
--
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Doug Boucher
book, too.
I wrote Hal Leonard and drooled all over them and licked their asses good
about it in hope of much more goodies to come. If enough of us do it,
they'll think it's a movement.
Dougie
Adrian Clark
> There should be rock band arrangments of Zappa's most-loved
> selections that can actually be used by musicians in performance.
> I'm not interested in any more bare-bones, quickie guitar tab
> books. Why would anyone want to learn to play the guitar solo in
> Willie the Pimp, note for note?
My thoughts exactly. Hal Leonard (or Cherry Lane, or whoever's published
HR) seem to be stuck in a late 80s timewarp, when sweaty-palmed,
long-haired teenagers (er... that'd be me, actually) would whip
themselves to a froth over accurate transcriptions of Yngwie Malmsteen's
latest 32nd note scale run.
While that approach works fine for yer standard "instrumental heavy
rock" artist (there's usually only lead + rhythm + some harmonies) it
does a great disservice to the depth of FZ's music. This is my main
criticism of the HR book - it's nice to see all of Frankie's wonderful
solos transcribed for budding young newbies to learn from, but...
a) Budding young newbies aren't going to be buying the Hot Rats CD,
never mind the transcription book
b) For guitarists (whom the book is aimed at) the guitar licks are the
easiest things on that album to figure out (if you're of the
transcribing persuasion).
All those barren areas of whole-note rests, where the "other
instruments" are playing... shit, *those* are the bits I want to know
about. The publishers are to be praised just for daring to put out
something Zappa-related, but I wish they'd done a little research into
the target market... the sort of people who want to dissect the pieces
in their full depth.
Michael Gula
Maybe it's a trend.
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
>Why would anyone want to learn to play the guitar solo in
>Willie the Pimp, note for note?
So they can arrange it for the brass section, silly.
Your pal,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
http://www.mp3.com/michaelpdawson
http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html
"The government has fallen into the hands of the potatoes."
--Erik Satie, 1918
Patrick Neve
> Daniel Norris wrote:
>
> > This is #1 of a soon to be a huge
> > collection.
>
> Well, if they're going to do it, I wish they'd do it right. Hire
> some Summa Cum Laude fresh out of Berklee with perfect pitch,
> give him access to the multitrack master tapes, give him some
> former Zappa musicians to consult with, and let him transcribe
> all the guitar, keyboard and bass parts down to the last
> nested-tuplet-over-the-barline.
Yeah, they should spare no expense and fly in, at triple scale no less,
Steve Vai and Ian Underwood as a transcription team. Or they can keep
hiring the guy who did the Hot Rats book, whom according to his website,
will work for $25 a page. Maybe you and Lewis should publish your own
unauthorized versions.
*************************************************
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~splat/zappapage.html
Michael Gula
>
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Michael Gula wrote:
> > Daniel Norris wrote:
> >
> > > This is #1 of a soon to be a huge
> > > collection.
> >
> > Well, if they're going to do it, I wish they'd do it right. Hire
> > some Summa Cum Laude fresh out of Berklee with perfect pitch,
> > give him access to the multitrack master tapes, give him some
> > former Zappa musicians to consult with, and let him transcribe
> > all the guitar, keyboard and bass parts down to the last
> > nested-tuplet-over-the-barline.
>
> Yeah, they should spare no expense and fly in, at triple scale no less,
> Steve Vai and Ian Underwood as a transcription team.
"Name" people are not necessary. There is an abundance of
talented unknowns.
> Or they can keep
> hiring the guy who did the Hot Rats book, whom according to his website,
> will work for $25 a page.
We could chip in and give him extra bonus dollars to take his
time and do a thoroughly accurate and complete job. I'd say
transcribing Zappa is worth a minimum of $150 a page. An extra $5
for every quintuplet, an extra $7 for every septuplet. Double
dollars if it goes over the barline.
Doug Boucher
> While that approach works fine for yer standard "instrumental heavy
> rock" artist (there's usually only lead + rhythm + some harmonies) it
> does a great disservice to the depth of FZ's music. This is my main
> criticism of the HR book - it's nice to see all of Frankie's wonderful
> solos transcribed for budding young newbies to learn from, but...
>
> a) Budding young newbies aren't going to be buying the Hot Rats CD,
> never mind the transcription book
> b) For guitarists (whom the book is aimed at) the guitar licks are the
> easiest things on that album to figure out (if you're of the
> transcribing persuasion).
>
> All those barren areas of whole-note rests, where the "other
> instruments" are playing... shit, *those* are the bits I want to know
> about. The publishers are to be praised just for daring to put out
> something Zappa-related, but I wish they'd done a little research into
> the target market... the sort of people who want to dissect the pieces
> in their full depth.
I'd agree with all of that, but I'm so happy they did anything at all that I
won't bother complaining too much. I DO wish they'd done more with Little
Umbrellas, particularly the "keyboard ensemble solo" section that they
merely give basic chords to. But damn, it sure is nice that there's
something out there, eh?
Dougie
(Who won't bother learning the entire Willie solo note for note, but will
definitely steal more than a few licks from it.)
Adrian Clark
> I'd agree with all of that, but I'm so happy they did anything at all that I
> won't bother complaining too much. I DO wish they'd done more with Little
> Umbrellas, particularly the "keyboard ensemble solo" section that they
> merely give basic chords to. But damn, it sure is nice that there's
> something out there, eh?
Oh sure, I'm amazed and delighted that there's *anything* Zappa-related
out there. I just hope they're not going to stick to the easiest option.
(The full-score version of CPIII *must* be the next book...)
Adrian Clark
> Yeah, they should spare no expense and fly in, at triple scale no less,
> Steve Vai and Ian Underwood as a transcription team. Or they can keep
> hiring the guy who did the Hot Rats book, whom according to his website,
> will work for $25 a page.
$25 a page? That makes $1600 for the entire book. Ouch! That's low for
such difficult material - we ought to be sending Andy Aledort some food
parcels.
Craig Jones
>
>I'd agree with all of that, but I'm so happy they did anything at all that
I
>won't bother complaining too much. I DO wish they'd done more with Little
>Umbrellas, particularly the "keyboard ensemble solo" section that they
>merely give basic chords to. But damn, it sure is nice that there's
>something out there, eh?
From memory, Andy Aledort told me that it was done that way because he
percieved that the keyboard section was not a "written" part that FZ would
have wanted played that way, but a keyboard improvisation.(Apologies to Andy
if this is not exactly what he said)
BTW, if any Australian readers of this are interested, the HR guitar tab
book can now be ordered locally through any music stores. Hal Leonard
Australia received their sample copy about 3 weeks ago, & should have
received adequate stock by now. AFAIK, this would be a little cheaper than
ordering on-line & paying USA funds, with regard to the low Aussie $
regards
Craig Jones
good_k...@NEWTSmsn.com.au
To reply, remove the obvious amphibian from the above address
Andy Aledort
I did the "Hot Rats" book, and as Craig says in his post, the "keyboard
ensemble part" was transcribed that way because I believe it was improvised
and not written. Of course, major sections of three-part horn arrangements
are transcribed in the book (arranged for guitar, no less) so I think the
complaining should be kept to a minimum. It would have been nice to have
been furnished with charts, soloed-out tracks, etc., but alas it had to be
done by ear. And obviously it's pretty silly to complain that the keyboard
ensemble part is not transcribed, and then imply that it's a waste of paper
to transcribe the guitar solos in their entirety because someone is not
interested in learning them note-for-note. That is not really the point, as
we all know. By the way, I get paid more than $25 a page to transcribe
books--that fee just covers single guitar or bass parts for instruction
purposes, not whole arrangements, and what gets transcribed and how is up to
my discretion.
Anyhow, I've always loved the "Hot Rats" album, and I'm glad it's finally
transcribed! I am currently working on "Apostrophe." If anyone has
questions, you can email me directly at:aale...@ix.netcom.com.
Andy
in article fzSE6.9746$482....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com, Craig Jones at
good_k...@msn.com.au wrote on 4/23/01 5:40 AM:
Doug Boucher
> I did the "Hot Rats" book, and as Craig says in his post, the "keyboard
> ensemble part" was transcribed that way because I believe it was
improvised
> and not written. Of course, major sections of three-part horn arrangements
> are transcribed in the book (arranged for guitar, no less) so I think the
> complaining should be kept to a minimum.
Oh, definitely. I didn't mean to come off too whiny about it, I just thought
it would be a nice part to have in there. I think you did a damn fine job
overall and I'm thrilled it's out there.
It would have been nice to have
> been furnished with charts, soloed-out tracks, etc., but alas it had to be
> done by ear. And obviously it's pretty silly to complain that the keyboard
> ensemble part is not transcribed, and then imply that it's a waste of
paper
> to transcribe the guitar solos in their entirety because someone is not
> interested in learning them note-for-note. That is not really the point,
as
> we all know.
True. Actually, I think it's great that you did the entire solos, I would've
been surprised if you hadn't. I personally will only make use of bits of
that stuff, but that's just me.
> Anyhow, I've always loved the "Hot Rats" album, and I'm glad it's finally
> transcribed!
Me too!
>I am currently working on "Apostrophe."
Yay!
Any chance that any bass transcriptions will be made available?
Dougie
Michael Gula
>
> Hey All--
>
> I did the "Hot Rats" book, and as Craig says in his post, the "keyboard
> ensemble part" was transcribed that way because I believe it was improvised
> and not written.
You may be right, Andy, but there are some figures in that
section that I find extremely inventive and intricate --
especially the one that plays in the "Dbadd#11" measure the
second time around. I would be totally aghast to find that Ian
Underwood (or anyone) improvised that.
Too bad we can't get Underwood's comment.
Good luck with Apostrophe('). You have a tough row to hoe on the
"St. Alfonzo" suite.
Adrian Clark
> Hey All--
Whoa! One of my musical role models writes on AFFZ! Back when I started
transcribing, I used to look at the stuff you (and Jesse Gress) did, and
wonder "How...?"
> complaining should be kept to a minimum. It would have been nice to have
> been furnished with charts, soloed-out tracks, etc., but alas it had to be
> done by ear.
And a fine job you did, too! As I said earlier today, it's great to see
some of FZ's music in transcribed form. Of course, it would have been
nice to see complete arrangements, but I understand that would have been
difficult without access to the masters (or charts). I also realise that
the format/size of this sort of thing is ultimately up to the
publishers.
Looking forward to "Apostrophe"...
Dan Buxbaum
Good luck with Apostrophe('). You have a tough row to hoe on the
"St. Alfonzo" suite.
How true. (!!) And then there's Excentrifugal Forz... it seems
ridiculous to (try to) transcribe this as this was such a "personalized"
piece for FZ. (I think Zappa played bass on this recording, as well as
most of the instrumentation other than violin and drums.) Even if some
of a transcription for "EF" is usable and accessible to others, the chance
of somebody making noises on their respective instruments that "approximates"
or captures the feel & flavor of this purely highly overdubbed studio
work is extremely remote.
(I kind of feel this way about most transcriptions and tab notations
dealing with studio creations from highly 'individualized' musician/composers.
As a poor example, I saw a book in a music store of Mitch Mitchell drum
notations from Jimi Hendrix's Experience recordings (also from Hal Leonard);
the idea of a drummer being able to play Mitchell's parts with all their
highly uniquely flexible, and stylized subtle & swinging & shifting
accents, and his 'feel' with dynamics from reading these notations is absurd.
This point was only made all too clear when I examined these notations.
There is no way to capture the essence of a musician who has developed
their own style from paper. Tab and notation is valuable for bare bones
"sketches", but even that was impossible with this Mitchell book--transcriptions
of guitar solos may be a "slightly" different matter--the only ones that
seem to work from what I've noticed are those pieces that are in a 4/4
time signature.
"...There is what can only be described as a direct link to the subconscious
that brings itself into existence when the sound is free enough and the
music is so honestly open. Any further analyzing of music that moves so
close to the rhythms and simple patterns of creation becomes high-sounding
and impossibly abstract. Music has no function when described on paper."
-- John Coleman
--
"I want to hear the frighteningly original all the time."
-- Frank Zappa
Andy Aledort
"narrative" is being transcribed in pitched rhythm, for all of you fanatica
out there.
in article 3AE4B185...@erols.com, Michael Gula at mike...@erols.com
wrote on 4/23/01 6:49 PM:
bongo
from "Doug Boucher" <dNOboucherFRICKIN'@cinci.SPAMrr.com> contains
these words:
> I wrote Hal Leonard and drooled all over them and licked their asses good
> about it in hope of much more goodies to come. If enough of us do it,
> they'll think it's a movement.
The last thing you want when licking someone's ass is a movement.
--
Not all drumers are thick.
David Wilcher
"bongo" <bo...@doghouse.zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:200104262...@doghouse.zetnet.co.uk...
But you don't know Dougie!
dave (who has a shit-eating grin:)
Michael Gula
>
> I'm working on "St. Alphonzo" now, and you are right--all of Frank's
> "narrative" is being transcribed in pitched rhythm, for all of you fanatica
> out there.
Well, that's all well and good, Andy, but I recall about a year
ago there was a discussion here about all the notes in "The Big
Alfonzo Motif" and the synth sequence that follows before the
narrative begins.
I think there's going to be some frowning affz'ers if you don't
nail each and every one of those notes.