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Franks worst albums

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Jeff Szarka

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Jun 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/13/99
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On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:53:08 +0200, "Erik van der Scheer"
<benzi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

:Hello folks,
:
:I'd like to know what you think Frank's 5 worst albums are.
:My suggestions (please don't kill me):
:
:The man from Utopia (inconsistend), Just another band from LA (he did much
:better shows at that time), Overnight sensation (I know it's very popular,
:but is very commercial and cheap and stupid), Guitar (If you've listened to
:Shut up and play...you'll know what I mean), London symphony orchestra I&II
:(compared to his other classical works). I still don't know what to think of
:Meets the mothers of prevention and Thing-Fish.


Look for a thread called "in defense of Man From Utpoia" It may make
you look at the album in a different light. I agree mostly on Guitar,
I find at least half of it quite boring. The other half is great
though so I don't really dislike it. JABFLA I love (all live shows
from that time I've heard have horrible sound quality) All the others
I like a lot too, just goes to show you how different Fz fans are...


:Please don't misunderstand me, I'm still a huge fan of Franks music (Is
:there anyone else who visited all of his Dutch concerts??) but I have my
:doubts on the quality of the albums I have mentioned.
:
:Thank you,
:
:Erik
:


Patrick Neve

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Jun 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/13/99
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> Hello folks,
>
> I'd like to know what you think Frank's 5 worst albums are.

The worst albums are the ones that have been mixed and mastered but for
whatever reason not released. They suck because at this point they only
sound like extended dance remixes of John Cage's 4'33".

1. Dance Me This
2. The Rage and the Fury
3. Trance-Fusion
4. Everything is Healing Nicely
5. Australia 1976

If a Zappa album is recorded but there's noone around to hear it does it
still make a noise?


*************************************************
"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax..
YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I LIVE IN THE PAST!" Walter Sobchak, The Big Lebowski
*************************************************
Splat's Zappa Page
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~splat/zappapage.html


Lewis Saul

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Jun 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/13/99
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Erik van der Scheer wrote in message <7k1cnl$rnn$1...@news1.xs4all.nl>...

>Hello folks,
>
>I'd like to know what you think Frank's 5 worst albums are.
>My suggestions (please don't kill me):

You named five of my ALL-TIME favorite FZ. Just goes to show ya, I guess...

>The man from Utopia (inconsistend),

Masterpiece. So glad to have two completely versions, also. As opposed to
Money and Ruben, this remix is equally as delightful as the original LP
mix...

Just another band from LA (he did much
>better shows at that time),

The guitar solo on vegetable is worth the price of admission. But altho you
won't want to listen to Billy *every day of your life* -- it's quite a
satisfying piece at each subsequent listening, imo.


Overnight sensation (I know it's very popular,
>but is very commercial and cheap and stupid),

Oooookay. I think it's a virtual masterpiece of studio/editing, with some
absolutely astonishing writing and playing. So Dinah Moe humm got
overplayed. Worth it for montana, slime, 50/50, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Guitar (If you've listened to
>Shut up and play...you'll know what I mean),

No, I don't. I think it's different fruit from different trees. Couldn't
live without either...

London symphony orchestra I&II
>(compared to his other classical works).

Gasp choke chortle. I really hate to say this, but I get a very terrible
feeling sometimes that fans think that Zappa "disowned" this work because a
few trumpet players got tipsy for a few bars of Strictly Genteel, which
actually added some depth to the worst composition on these two LPs (now one
CD)....

Since there is no "superior" recording to Mo 'N Herb, Jane, Bob, etc. --
this will do JUST fine,

imho


I still don't know what to think of
>Meets the mothers of prevention and Thing-Fish.
>


Now thing-fish I can understand. We're talking dense and difficult [but
ultimately rewarding]

but mothers of prevention is a different story. The very first synclavier
comps, along with the greatly underappreciated porn wars (and of course the
awesome HR "bonus" track we Americans finally got with the new CD -- which
is used in porn wars.......)


>Please don't misunderstand me,

I don't...

I'm still a huge fan of Franks music

You didn't mention CPIII? Got it? If not get it! Good...

(Is
>there anyone else who visited all of his Dutch concerts??)

No, but I once went "dutch" with my ex-wife...

but I have my
>doubts on the quality of the albums I have mentioned.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Erik
>


Erik -- I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or cute or anything. It's just that
I have such a strong personal feeling that out of the nearly 80 releases,
there is just so very very LITTLE *uninteresting* music to be found...

seek it out with ears wide open...

ls
incurably addicted...

Major Major

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Jun 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/13/99
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>Overnight sensation (I know it's very popular,
> but is very commercial and cheap and stupid),

I know the above statement will cause a stir, but I have to agree. If you
listen to an album like Joe's Garage for instance, then Overnite right
after, you will gag at the quality of the production if you have a decent
ear for those things. For starters, the vocals are mixed too high
throughout, and the high end is virtually nonexistant. I tried making a mix
tape for an uninitiated friend and couldn't use any tunes from OS because
they sound muffled and weak in comparison to the other songs from other
albums. The writing isn't bad (esp. Zomby Woof, Montana), but having heard
most of Frank's other albums, I have no idea how Overnite acquired the
reputation of being a "classic" that it has.

Major Major
--
Interviewer: "So Frank, you have long hair. Does that make you a woman?"
Frank: "You have a wooden leg. Does that make you a table?"


Dan Watkins

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Jun 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/13/99
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Lewis Saul wrote:

> Gasp choke chortle. I really hate to say this, but I get a very terrible
> feeling sometimes that fans think that Zappa "disowned" this work because a
> few trumpet players got tipsy for a few bars of Strictly Genteel, which
> actually added some depth to the worst composition on these two LPs (now one
> CD)....

I always assumed that the orchestra Zappa really held a grudge over was the
Royal Philharmonic. I bet Frank wasn't too happy about those bastards ripping
those tuxes up.

-Dan
--
"There is no Hell... only France!" -FZ

Dan's Frank Zappa Page
http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/The_Mothers/index.html
AOL Screen Name: madcow1515
ICQ Number: 30083560


Lewis Saul

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Jun 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/13/99
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>treat, especially if you're getting one of the GOOD
>reproductions. The presence of an audience and FZ's verbal
>announcements/annotations cause me to prefer these performances
>to the released ones.
>--


I've just heard the 25 minute version on Apocrypha -- sound pretty decent.

Yes, it's certainly wonderful to have this -- but correct me if I'm wrong --
I don't think the complete Mo 'N Herb was played -- or was it?

In any case, the LSO version, with the fantastic part-writing for quadruple
winds, with the solo clarinet weaving in and out, has had me hooked for
years. It is also delightful to listen to both LP and CD "versions" -- dry
and wet!

ls


Lewis Saul

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Jun 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/13/99
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>
>I've just heard the 25 minute version on Apocrypha -- sound pretty decent.


DUH. nevermind peoples. i'm a bit brain dead tonight. I'm thinking of
course of the 25-minute Sinister Footwear from Zellerbach Hall?? yes?

So I guess I haven't heard this Mo 'N Herb. From the same concert? On the
Serious Music boot?

Erik van der Scheer

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
to
Hello folks,

I'd like to know what you think Frank's 5 worst albums are.
My suggestions (please don't kill me):

The man from Utopia (inconsistend), Just another band from LA (he did much
better shows at that time), Overnight sensation (I know it's very popular,
but is very commercial and cheap and stupid), Guitar (If you've listened to
Shut up and play...you'll know what I mean), London symphony orchestra I&II
(compared to his other classical works). I still don't know what to think of


Meets the mothers of prevention and Thing-Fish.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm still a huge fan of Franks music (Is
there anyone else who visited all of his Dutch concerts??) but I have my

Jeff Szarka

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:15:39 -0700, "Lewis Saul" <ls...@azstarnet.com>
wrote:

:London symphony orchestra I&II


:>(compared to his other classical works).

:
:Gasp choke chortle. I really hate to say this, but I get a very terrible


:feeling sometimes that fans think that Zappa "disowned" this work because a
:few trumpet players got tipsy for a few bars of Strictly Genteel, which
:actually added some depth to the worst composition on these two LPs (now one
:CD)....

:
:Since there is no "superior" recording to Mo 'N Herb, Jane, Bob, etc. --


:this will do JUST fine,

Lewis, you're the guy to ask on this:

Have you ever heard Son of Serious Music? (A bootleg from the Berkley
Symphony Orchestra) I have a copy on the way. (Thank god for ebay) I
can't wait to hear another version of Sad Jane and Moe 'n Herb's. Just
curious about your thoughts on it…


Jack P. Armstrong

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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>better shows at that time), Overnight sensation (I know it's very popular,
>but is very commercial and cheap and stupid),

Youuuuuuu bastard.
- - - - - - -
Jody B. aka Jack P. Armstrong
"We're going back after I get my chocolate milkshake." - Steve Knight
"I play the drums so loud I break all the heads..." - Robert Wyatt

Jack P. Armstrong

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
to
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> I'd like to know what you think Frank's 5 worst albums are.
>
>The worst albums are the ones that have been mixed and mastered but for
>whatever reason not released. They suck because at this point they only
>sound like extended dance remixes of John Cage's 4'33".
>
>1. Dance Me This
>2. The Rage and the Fury
>3. Trance-Fusion
>4. Everything is Healing Nicely
>5. Australia 1976
>
>If a Zappa album is recorded but there's noone around to hear it does it
>still make a noise?
>

Uh oh, you just blew my mind...

Franz Fuchs

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:15:39 -0700, "Lewis Saul" <ls...@azstarnet.com>
wrote:

>>The man from Utopia (inconsistend),
>
>Masterpiece.

In strictly musical terms, maybe - but some of Frank's opinions
expressed in the lyrics of this record could drive me to despair... It
seems that at this point in his carreer he wasn't able to say
something non-offending about women even if he wanted to. Take that
plus the anti-union-song plus the tiresome road-story plus his almost
reactionary views on drug-problems and you get an extreme high
annoyance level which threatens to overshadow the indeed remarkable
music.
Quotation All-Music Guide:

Zappa often protested that the charges of misogyny leveled at such
material missed out on the implicit satire of stupid males, and also
confirmed intellectuals' reticence about indulging in dumb fun;
however, the glee in his voice as he spins his adolescent fantasies
tends to undermine his point. Indeed, that enjoyment, also evident in
the silly wordplay, suggests that Zappa is throwing his juvenile
crassness in the face of critical expectation, asserting his right to
follow his muse even if it leads him into blatant stupidity [...] As
with much of Zappa's best '70s and '80s material, Over-Nite Sensation
[Insert MFU] is ideologically problematic and musically terrific. --
Steve Huey, All-Music Guide

Greetings
Franz


--
franz...@magnet.at

Cle4d

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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>Subject: Re: Franks worst albums
>From: stuco...@aol.commode (Jack P. Armstrong)
>Date: Sun, 13 June 1999 10:07 PM EDT
>Message-id: <19990613220742...@ng37.aol.com>

>
>>better shows at that time), Overnight sensation (I know it's very popular,
>>but is very commercial and cheap and stupid),
>
>Youuuuuuu bastard.
>- - - - - - -
>Jody B. aka Jack P. Armstrong
>"We're going back after I get my chocolate milkshake." - Steve Knight
>"I play the drums so loud I break all the heads..." - Robert Wyatt
>
>
If I may be so bold as to say;
very fucking well put.

" I'm not a Figplucker or a Figplucker's son,
but I'll pluck them figs, 'till the Figplucker comes".

Cleavon

Michael Gula

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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Jeff Szarka wrote:
>
> On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:15:39 -0700, "Lewis Saul" <ls...@azstarnet.com>
> wrote:
>

I'm no Lewis Saul, but I think I can say that you're in for a


treat, especially if you're getting one of the GOOD
reproductions. The presence of an audience and FZ's verbal
announcements/annotations cause me to prefer these performances
to the released ones.
--

SIGNATURE FILE?! WHAT SIGNATURE FILE??

To reply remove MORESPAM from the address.

Michael Gula

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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Lewis Saul wrote:


> I don't think the complete Mo 'N Herb was played -- or was it?

Hmmmm! My copy is from the radio broadcast and, now that you
mention it, I think it is shortened--I'll have to listen again.
But if so, it might have been shortened for broadcast although
played complete live.

Michael Gula

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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I have the "A Zappa Affair" recording--same concert.

Martin Gregorie

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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franz...@magnet.at (Franz Fuchs) wrote:

>something non-offending about women even if he wanted to. Take that
>plus the anti-union-song plus the tiresome road-story plus his almost
>reactionary views on drug-problems and you get an extreme high
>annoyance level which threatens to overshadow the indeed remarkable
>music.
>

Huh? I don't hear 'reactionary' in Cocaine Decisions at all.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Gregorie |Logica UK Ltd
gregorie |+44 (0171) 637 9111
@ |
logica |
. |All opinions expressed are solely those
com |of the author and not of Logica
----------------------------------------------------------------------


kipmat

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
to
Forgive my two cents, I was reading this thread and mentally reviewing my
Zappa collection. It occured to me that there were five cd's I had not
listened to in over a year:
1. Them Or Us
2. LSO vol. 2
3. Weasels Ripped My Flesh
4. Freak Out
5. Yellow Shark
Consodering this fact, it also occurred to me that I should probably put
these discs on. But then I decided against it. I'll get flamed for
saying this, but there was no desire in my heart to listen to these discs
at that point. I will continue to own these discs, and actively await new
FZ material, and just listen to other albums right now.

In article <7k1cnl$rnn$1...@news1.xs4all.nl>, "Erik van der Scheer"
<benzi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

-> Hello folks,
->
-> I'd like to know what you think Frank's 5 worst albums are.
-> My suggestions (please don't kill me):
->
-> The man from Utopia (inconsistend), Just another band from LA (he did much
-> better shows at that time), Overnight sensation (I know it's very popular,
-> but is very commercial and cheap and stupid), Guitar (If you've listened to
-> Shut up and play...you'll know what I mean), London symphony orchestra I&II
-> (compared to his other classical works). I still don't know what to think of
-> Meets the mothers of prevention and Thing-Fish.
->
-> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm still a huge fan of Franks music (Is
-> there anyone else who visited all of his Dutch concerts??) but I have my
-> doubts on the quality of the albums I have mentioned.
->
-> Thank you,
->
-> Erik
--
this...@concentric.net

teak

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
to
Actually, Franks worse albums are, as I disaggree with you on
some,"Absoluteley Free" when it was in vynal . Bolez conducts Zappa.
Somehow, Zappa
seemed to make his music go into melt down. And Guitar-The red box.
But it isn't albums as much as technique. I think, in the end there
where to many guitar solos and to many non melodic compisitions. He
went to deep into
melting sounds and avante guarde. Originally Duprees Paradise was a
very nice song. On Boulez, it melts down.
--
Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com
Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).


Jack P. Armstrong

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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>3. Weasels Ripped My Flesh
>4. Freak Out
>5. Yellow Shark

I LOVE all three of these discs. And I REALLY don't like most of Zappa's
orchestral works (Civilization Phase III? Yuck.) - but I dig yellow shark, it's
a mofo riot.

Franz Fuchs

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:15:24 GMT, greg...@see.sig.for.address (Martin
Gregorie) wrote:

>franz...@magnet.at (Franz Fuchs) wrote:
>
>>something non-offending about women even if he wanted to. Take that
>>plus the anti-union-song plus the tiresome road-story plus his almost
>>reactionary views on drug-problems and you get an extreme high
>>annoyance level which threatens to overshadow the indeed remarkable
>>music.
>>
>Huh? I don't hear 'reactionary' in Cocaine Decisions at all.

I've built myself a safety net with the word "almost" :-) I think that
FZs view on the reasons for drug-addiction is one-dimensional. It
seems that he believed people get drugproblems only for laughs, simply
boredom or decandence. No word about professional pressure or psychic
crisis. Maybe my critique doesn't work, because satire lives off
exaggeration and is therefore no treatise...But a general discomfort
how this issue is handled in Frank's lyrics remains.
(But I admit that I have to laugh when he announces "Chop a line now,
snort it up now" in "Tinseltown Rebellion" :-) Of course "Chop a line
now..." is a case of Conceptional Continuity as it recurs as
introduction to "Cocaine Decisions".)

Greetings
Franz
--
franz...@magnet.at

D.G. Porter

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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kipmat wrote:
>
> 3. Weasels Ripped My Flesh

A greast album, epsecially with the 7|8 piece "Charles Ives" restored to
"Didja..."

> 4. Freak Out

Absolutely one of the best. Hooked me on FZ. 'Tude before it became
popular.

> 5. Yellow Shark

Brilliant, and besides Kretzschmarr is a friend of mine.

Christopher Ekman

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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Michael Gula wrote (didn't he?):

>I'm no Lewis Saul, but I think I can say that you're in
>for a treat, especially if you're getting one of the GOOD
>reproductions. The presence of an audience and FZ's verbal
>announcements/annotations cause me to prefer these
>performances to the released ones.

The Spontaneous Minimalist Composition has to be the
absolute giddiest I've ever heard FZ to be. It's a riot-
especially the way he tweaks the audience. He explains
that the piece will be accompanied by "minimalist aerobics-
it will inspire you to do whatever you're already doing at
the time. So even if you just sit there like a lump,
you're IN on this, gang!"

I had the whole shtick typed up at one point, and was going
to post it, but I lost it. I may do it again, and include
the scenarios for the pieces. They belong in the LSO
annotation. Since we have no video of the puppetry, this
is the next best thing. It also adds a whole new dimension
to hear the mannered public radio announcers try to explain
the Decamorph, or to explain that "Frank Zappa has just
handed a five-foot-long penis to the timpanist."

I can't remember- is the Spontaneous Minimalist Composition
on the Apocrypha edit of Sinister Footwear?

Chris Ekman
working...@worldnet.att.net

**** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ****

Christopher Ekman

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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a person who's name I have rudely forgotten wrote:

>have you tried listening to the album with all the
>dialogues edited out, e.g. having only the instrumental
>pieces programmed on your CD player?


No offense to the original poster, but for my taste, I
can't imagine gouging the dialogue off of CPIII. I think
it's a perfect comment on the hermetically sealed commune
Frank introduced on Lumpy Gravy. They're getting more and
more confused about their own identities and they're
scheming to get rich quick- their language is becoming
corrupted and so are they, if you want to be cute about it;
meanwhile, they're being invaded by tourists, including
Europeans and even a NEGRO! a NEGRO! I think this multi-
culture clash is very canny on FZ's part.

Don't flame me for saying so, but I think Ben Watson could
be very useful on this topic...

Dan Watkins

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
to
Christopher Ekman wrote:

> Don't flame me for saying so, but I think Ben Watson could
> be very useful on this topic...

I liked the Poodle Play book. I don't care what everyone else says. It's very
interesting reading. I liked it much better than No Commercial Potential.

Christopher Ekman

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
to
Lewis Saul wrote:

>>London symphony orchestra I&II


>>(compared to his other classical works).

>Gasp choke chortle. I really hate to say this, but I get a


>very terrible feeling sometimes that fans think that
>Zappa "disowned" this work because a few trumpet players
>got tipsy for a few bars of Strictly Genteel, which
>actually added some depth to the worst composition on
>these two LPs (now one CD)....

One CD? You're not a little tipsy yourself, are you, Lewis?

Y'know, I wonder if it was really wise to keep FZ's peevish
liner notes in the Ryko reissue. My understanding was that
Zappa and the UMRK crew fixed or masked whatever errors
there were to Zappa's satisfaction. If that's so, a note
to that effect might have set the consumer's mind at ease.

frank behnsen

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
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Jack P. Armstrong <stuco...@aol.commode> wrote:

> (Civilization Phase III? Yuck.)

have you tried listening to the album with all the dialogues edited out,
e.g. having only the instrumental pieces programmed on your CD player?

great music, IMO. methinks "amnerika" is one of the most disturbing
(yet beautiful) pieces of music FZ ever wrote. makes me imagine
something like a puppet on a string in agony ...

--
------------------------------------------------------------
frank behnsen, * illustration | fb_illu...@csi.com
contract artist * GUI design | CompuServe: 100762,3326
------------------------------------------------------------

ZappaLVR

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
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In article <9294141...@www.remarq.com>, Christopher Ekman
<working...@worldnet.att.net> writes:

>they're being invaded by tourists, including
>Europeans and even a NEGRO! a NEGRO! I think this multi-
>culture clash is very canny on FZ's part.
>

>Don't flame me for saying so, but I think Ben Watson could
>be very useful on this topic...

That guy, Michael Rappaport, is a very white (blonde) actor. I think he's even
supposed to be a "wigger," to use the vernacular of the day.

Zapp...@aol.com aka Chris Maxfield
http://members.aol.com/zappalvr/ZAPPA.html
Kill Ugly Sig Files! To e-mail, remove "honza" from my address!


frank behnsen

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
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Christopher Ekman <working...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> No offense to the original poster,

none taken.

> can't imagine gouging the dialogue off of CPIII. I think
> it's a perfect comment on the hermetically sealed commune
> Frank introduced on Lumpy Gravy.

the reason i regularly usta skip all dialogue when listening to the
album is that until reading your message i couldn't find any deeper
meaning in them. although at first i listened to the entire album
several times while simultaneously reading the words in the booklet, i
just didn't get it.

it never entered my mind (no pun intended) that there could be more to
the dialogue than just some more or less pointless mumble-jumble,
recorded randomly inside a grand piano.

your brief interpretation is a big help and i'll listen to the CP III
dialogue again with your comments in mind.

thanks!

> Don't flame me for saying so, but I think Ben Watson could
> be very useful on this topic...

i agree! "poodle play" is a great source of information.

Jack P. Armstrong

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to
>> (Civilization Phase III? Yuck.)
>
>have you tried listening to the album with all the dialogues edited out,
>e.g. having only the instrumental pieces programmed on your CD player?
>

Really, the only thing i LIKE about the album is the dialogue.

Patrick Neve

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to
On 15 Jun 1999, Jack P. Armstrong wrote:
> >> (Civilization Phase III? Yuck.)
> >
> >have you tried listening to the album with all the dialogues edited out,
> >e.g. having only the instrumental pieces programmed on your CD player?
> >
>
> Really, the only thing i LIKE about the album is the dialogue.


And I only look at the pictures.


Hey, they won a grammy!


Geir Corneliussen

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to

One thing I always have hated about CP 111. I have mentioned that before
out here, only to hear stuff like :"Buy a new one."- Hey, it was a
prizewinner," etc etc. Well, that interests me as much as a pimple on
the butt. What I talk about? The bad quality on the Paper and packaging,
and the bad pressing of the disks themselves. Buy another one? I burn a
copy instead, I never buy more crap than strictly needed. The music is
fantastic, and the art is fantastic. The manufacturing is crap, worse
than a box of biscuits.

chickyraptor

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to

Burnt Weeny Sandwich
Läther

--Dave

chickyraptor

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to
On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:47:54 -0800 Christopher Ekman
<working...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Lewis Saul wrote:
>
> >>London symphony orchestra I&II
> >>(compared to his other classical works).
>
> >Gasp choke chortle. I really hate to say this, but I get a
> >very terrible feeling sometimes that fans think that
> >Zappa "disowned" this work because a few trumpet players
> >got tipsy for a few bars of Strictly Genteel, which
> >actually added some depth to the worst composition on
> >these two LPs (now one CD)....
>
> One CD? You're not a little tipsy yourself, are you, Lewis?

The original Ryko LSO CD (that's right, one CD) contained
material from the Barking Pumpkin LSO and LSO II albums.

The current Ryko version gives you everything.

Jon Naurin

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to
chickyraptor writes:

>Burnt Weeny Sandwich
>Läther

Yeah, especially the Läther version of Broken Hearts Are For Assholes must be
Frank's wurst song ever.

- Jon

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
To reply, swap "swop" for "swip" in my address.
Check out the Zappa concert database FZShows at:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~prem/fzshows.htm

teak

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
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NCP was a hatchet job. Zappa's music is mostly good. I am not into all
his guiatar stuff. His instrumentals in the end had too many melt
downs. Duprees paradise in original format was excellent.

ZappaLVR

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to
In article <376679...@online.no>, Geir Corneliussen <corn...@online.no>
writes:

>The bad quality on the Paper and packaging,
>and the bad pressing of the disks themselves. Buy another one? I burn a
>copy instead, I never buy more crap than strictly needed. The music is
>fantastic, and the art is fantastic. The manufacturing is crap, worse
>than a box of biscuits.
>

Whta? Mine is fabulous. I don't know what you're talking about! The Lost
Episodes and Yellow Shark have some packaging probs (the little cardboard boxes
aren't too sturdy, but my copy of CPIII seems high quality all the way.

Lewis Saul

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to
>The original Ryko LSO CD (that's right, one CD) contained
>material from the Barking Pumpkin LSO and LSO II albums.
>
>The current Ryko version gives you everything.
>
> --Dave
>--


Yes, and I have both, so you can see why I got confused...

Today's challenge: write some music without any verbatim quoting from the
***2-DISK*** LSO I just listened to...

Oh this is gonna be a tough day. Maybe I should just blow it off and go
back to sleep...


Jeff Szarka

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to
On Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:04:32 -0700, "Lewis Saul" <ls...@azstarnet.com>
wrote:

:Oh this is gonna be a tough day. Maybe I should just blow it off and go
:back to sleep...

That's what I say everyday of my life...

Sleep = good.

jeff

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to

BWS is one of my favorites. Why do you care not for it?
"Holiday in Berlin (Full Blown)" is to me, delightful.
WPLJ, Valerie, Little House, all of it - it's a great album.


On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:08:45 GMT, Jeffrey <idle...@home.com> wrote:

>personally, I'm not a fan of Baby Snakes, and Meets the Mothers of
>Prevention.
>
>stifford


>
>chickyraptor wrote:
>>
>> Burnt Weeny Sandwich
>> Läther
>>
>> --Dave

>> --
>> Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com
>> Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).

jeff
remove the obvious BURNTWEENIE pest strip to reply
http://www.users.cloud9.net/~jeff/stinko2.htm





Dennis Guertin

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to

frank behnsen wrote in message
<1dtf5kd.1qr...@mun-c45-034-vty211.as.wcom.net>...
>

>methinks "amnerika" is one of the most disturbing
>(yet beautiful) pieces of music FZ ever wrote.


Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

Michael Gula

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to
teak wrote:

> His instrumentals in the end had too many melt
> downs.

Could you please tell me what you mean by "melt downs"?
--
SIGNATURE FILE?! WHAT SIGNATURE FILE??

To reply remove MORESPAM from the address.

kipmat

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to
In article <37671A77...@erols.com>, mike...@MORESPAMerols.com wrote:

-> teak wrote:
->
-> > His instrumentals in the end had too many melt
-> > downs.
->
-> Could you please tell me what you mean by "melt downs"?

The compositions were so difficult to play that the musician's instruments
would melt (at least the plastic; the chrome just gets soft).
--
this...@concentric.net

Magnus Karlsson

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Jun 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/16/99
to
ZappaLVR wrote:

> In article <376679...@online.no>, Geir Corneliussen <corn...@online.no>
> writes:
>
> >The bad quality on the Paper and packaging,
> >and the bad pressing of the disks themselves. Buy another one? I burn a
> >copy instead, I never buy more crap than strictly needed. The music is
> >fantastic, and the art is fantastic. The manufacturing is crap, worse
> >than a box of biscuits.
>
> Whta? Mine is fabulous. I don't know what you're talking about! The Lost
> Episodes and Yellow Shark have some packaging probs (the little cardboard boxes
> aren't too sturdy, but my copy of CPIII seems high quality all the way.

My copy of CPIII comes direct from Barfko and the packaging is great, very solid.
However, every copy I've seen at record stores in Sweden looks horribly beat up,
especially on the edges, even though they're brand new and are kept behind
protection glass. Are there differences in the packaging between european and
american versions?

/Magnus


Erik van der Scheer

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Jun 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/16/99
to

>My copy of CPIII comes direct from Barfko and the packaging is great, very
solid.
>However, every copy I've seen at record stores in Sweden looks horribly
beat up,
>especially on the edges, even though they're brand new and are kept behind
>protection glass. Are there differences in the packaging between european
and
>american versions?
>
>/Magnus
>

My copy of CPIII was made in England (bar code 5 016583 605629). The
packaging looks horrible, even though I am very careful with it. Especially
the edges are damaged.

Jeffrey

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Jun 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/16/99
to

Michael Gula

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Jun 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/16/99
to

Well, from your use of the term, it seems that "melt down" is an
undesirable musical element from your point of view.

If musicians are playing difficult music well, then you are
getting your money's worth.

Michael Gula

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Jun 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/16/99
to
Michael Gula wrote:
>
> kipmat wrote:
> >
> > In article <37671A77...@erols.com>, mike...@MORESPAMerols.com wrote:
> >
> > -> teak wrote:
> > ->
> > -> > His instrumentals in the end had too many melt
> > -> > downs.
> > ->
> > -> Could you please tell me what you mean by "melt downs"?
> >
> > The compositions were so difficult to play that the musician's instruments
> > would melt (at least the plastic; the chrome just gets soft).
>
> Well, from your use of the term, it seems that "melt down" is an
> undesirable musical element from your point of view.
>
> If musicians are playing difficult music well, then you are
> getting your money's worth.

Pardon me, kipmat. You responded to the question I asked teak,
and I became confused.

ZappaLVR

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Jun 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/16/99
to
In article <37670bd4...@news2.newscene.com>, jeff@BURNTWEENIE@asan.com
(jeff) writes:

>
>BWS is one of my favorites. Why do you care not for it?
>"Holiday in Berlin (Full Blown)" is to me, delightful.
>WPLJ, Valerie, Little House, all of it - it's a great album.
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:08:45 GMT, Jeffrey <idle...@home.com> wrote:
>

>>personally, I'm not a fan of Baby Snakes, and Meets the Mothers of
>>Prevention.
>>
>>stifford
>>
>>chickyraptor wrote:
>>>
>>> Burnt Weeny Sandwich
>>> Läther

Just a joke...references to Weenies and other Sausages. Should have included
ZOOT ALLURES on that list, too. And BWTHW for Jezebel Boy!

chickyraptor

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Jun 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/16/99
to
On 15 Jun 1999 21:27:02 -0500 jeff@BURNTWEENIE@asan.com (jeff) wrote:
>
>
> BWS is one of my favorites. Why do you care not for it?
> "Holiday in Berlin (Full Blown)" is to me, delightful.
> WPLJ, Valerie, Little House, all of it - it's a great album.

True, but it's still on the list of FZ's wurst albums: (BWS,
Läther, Apostrophe, Joe's Garage, Stage I & III, Zoot, BTHW
(CD version), DHBIM, not to mention Apocrypha.) There are
probably even more.

http://www.wins.uva.nl/cng/search/htsearch.CGI?config=wins&words=sausage&restrict=%2F%7Eheederik%2Fzappa%2F

Jack P. Armstrong

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Jun 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/16/99