Frank Zappa's anti-abortion song
Bill
>
> Well, here's another revelation comin' down da pipe for you'ze
> fellas.
>
> Of course, one more time this peek into Zappa's madness and mind
> will come as a shocker to many people, not excluding those on this
> forum.
>
> Anyway, Zappa wanted to get the bucks rollin' in, and this
> conflicted with speaking the truth about the contents of his songs.
> So, Zappa kept the meaning of many songs hidden from the public, and
> at times, told white lies about the actual meanings of those songs.
> Further, at times Zappa imbedded more than one meaning in a single
> song.
>
> Tonight, there is a specific example I will discuss with you.
>
> The song is Cosmik Debris, which actually contains Zappa's
> anti-abortion message, although in a slightly camouflaged manner.
>
> Let's examine the lyrics:
>
> | The mystery man came over
> | And he said "I'm outta sight!"
> | He said for a nominal service charge
> | I could reach nirvana tonight
>
> This paragraph indicates that the girl requires an abortion, and can
> obtain it from the medical doctor in service, at a clinic.
>
> | The mystery man got nervous
> | And he fidget around a bit
> | He reached in the pocket of his mystery robe
> | And he whipped out a shaving kit
> | Now I thought it was a razor
> | And a can of foaming goo
> | But he told me right then when the top popped open
> | There was nothin' his box won't do
> | With the oil of Aphrodite, and the dust of the Grand Wazoo
> | He said "You might not believe this, little fella
> | But it'll cure your asthma too"
>
> This indicates that the person who is offering to administer the
> abortion isn't licensed, but rather is a "hack" at those jobs.
> Probably for economics reasons, in that the U.S. government doesn't
> subsidize those medical procedures, and the normal teenager can't
> afford a proper clinic.
>
> | "But I got the crystal ball", he said
> | And held it to the ligh
> | So I snatched it, all away from him
> | And I showed him how to do it right
>
> This indicates that the person, of doctor, has an ecographical
> apparatus on-hand, to obtain a visual or magnetic image of the
> fetus inside the womb of the patient.
>
> | As long as he was hanging around
> | I said "The price of meat has just gone up
> | And your old lady has just gone down!"
>
> At this stage in their conversation, the woman refuses the abortion
> offer, and exclaims that human life is too valuable to dispose of,
> in abortions and such procedures. It's clear she pushes off the
> abortionist. "Meat" representing the value of human life. Or in
> other words, by refusing an abortion, she's saying the price of
> human life has gone up, by the attitude and decision that the young
> female person has taken at that moment, between the 2 of them. And
> further, she criticizes the abortionist's beliefs and upbringing, by
> referring to his wife in a negative manner.
>
> | Now is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
>
> With this question, she expresses her cynicism and suspicions as to
> the professionalism and training of the abortionist. As to wheher
> he's a professional and licensed medical doctor, or a "hack" ...
> someone who didn't make it in medical school, or is using
> conventional wisdom to perform the destruction of the fetus. In
> particular, she's attacking his credibility and mainly, his
> garnments or medical attire, whether it's professional, or
> pseudo-medical gear, such as a green raincoat from Sears. The
> clothes in question representing the difference between a
> professional and a hack "medicine man".
>
> | Don't you know, you could make more money as a butcher?
>
> This is Zappa's final and most clear anti-abortion statement and
> clarification of his position regarding this matter. Zappa says that
> the medicine hack should have make a living as a butcher, cutting up
> meat from animals, in lieu of destroying the fetuses of young
> ladies, unborn human beings through the technique and carrying out
> of abortions.
>
> In a nutshell, at the time this song was written, Zappa did not
> believe in abortion as a legitimate procedure in dealing with human
> life. He thought that people shouldn't be placed in a position in
> the first place, of having to deal with such situations. And
> therefore, Zappa believe that unborn humans have a right to see the
> light of day at the end of the natural cycle of conception.
Have you been reading my lyric analysis web pages?
RDNZL
Timothy Meyers wrote:
(huge snip of complete nonsensical analysis)
>
>
> Okay, I disagree with your song interpretation rather strongly, anyone
> else can confirm/refute me?
> -tim-
All I can say is from the very first time I heard the song upon it's release, it
was obvious to me the tune is about being sucked into religious cults by myterious
strangers promising eternal life via one path or another. IMHO, this includes such
religious anomalies such as TM and Krishna, as well as Catholicism, Buddhism and
all the other organized religions. And that includes Eric Clapton. Of course,
being a devout Appliantologist leaves me little room to criticize.
--
Michael
(to reply in e-mail remove the 'x')
John Brower
It is refuted by the fact that Frank Zappa appeared at least one
pro-choice rally in Los Angeles.
John Brower
sevent...@webtv.net
mystery man is the evil dope pusher.The can of foaming goo was a stash
can that looked like a shaving cream can but had a hidden compartment
that held the goodies including the crystal ball which was crystal
meth,after he snorts the drugs he dance around hallucinating and having
a good time.
Joe Franks
>
> Well, here's another revelation comin' down da pipe for you'ze
> fellas.
>
> Of course, one more time this peek into Zappa's madness and mind
> will come as a shocker to many people, not excluding those on this
> forum.
>
> Anyway, Zappa wanted to get the bucks rollin' in, and this
> conflicted with speaking the truth about the contents of his songs.
> So, Zappa kept the meaning of many songs hidden from the public, and
> at times, told white lies about the actual meanings of those songs.
> Further, at times Zappa imbedded more than one meaning in a single
> song.
>
> Tonight, there is a specific example I will discuss with you.
>
> The song is Cosmik Debris, which actually contains Zappa's
> anti-abortion message, although in a slightly camouflaged manner.
>
> Let's examine the lyrics:
>
> | The mystery man came over
> | And he said "I'm outta sight!"
I've thoroughly examined this post (took 3 seconds actually) , and I've
decided that all your here for is comedy relief. On the other hand ,
Abortion is not a comical topic. For you to be so definite as this being
a song about anti-abortion just doesn't fit. And Frank wasn't into
writing a whole bunch of songs , and not letting other people or fans
know what this shit meant. Most of it is simple to realize , the same
in Cosmik Debris' case. No woman reaches Nirvana with an abortion.
and before I forget --- In the killfile you go......Strike 62
--
Joe Franks
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~jf503
RRZZZZZnet!
AIM:jf503
-----------
I'm only 36 , thinly and sick
tried all of my life just to grow me a dick
-Denny Walley
-----------
Phydoux 3
> All I can say is from the very first time I heard the song upon it's
>release, it
>was obvious to me the tune is about being sucked into religious cults by
>myterious
>strangers promising eternal life via one path or another. IMHO, this includes
>such
>religious anomalies such as TM and Krishna, as well as Catholicism, Buddhism
>and
>all the other organized religions. And that includes Eric Clapton. Of
>course,
>being a devout Appliantologist leaves me little room to criticize.
>
>
It's just a song about a fortune tell poeple
STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Phydoux 3
In article <19990130222254...@ngol06.aol.com>, phyd...@aol.com
(Phydoux 3) writes:
>It's just a song about a fortune tell poeple
>
>STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
another typo....teller
It Never Entered My Mind
> All I can say is from the very first time I heard the song upon it's
>release, it was obvious to me the tune is about being sucked
>into religious cults by myterious strangers promising eternal life
You're close, but not cigar!
The song's closing referring to "should have been a butcher" refers
to blood, killing and insensitivity to living beings and creatures.
There is no religion or fortune teller, that I have knowledge about,
that involves cutting up creatures, dead ones or alive. That is,
unless it's about satanic cults or whatnot.
But, the crystal ball and the song's other aspects seem to point the
way of my original interpretation.
Michael Pierry
>
>
> Have you been reading my lyric analysis web pages?
I think about a year or so again I happened upon your analysis of "The Blue
Light", and it scared the hell out of me.
--
"Is that a wheel of cheese in your pocket or are you... um... some kind of
lumpy person?" - Matt Baume
Matt Perry
John Brower wrote:
> Let's just call this an "interesting" interpretation.
>
> It is refuted by the fact that Frank Zappa appeared at least one
> pro-choice rally in Los Angeles
> John Brower
Lurker Mode OFF :
It IS possible to be anti-abortion AND pro-choice. Think about it - Just
because you don't condone a certain behavior doesn't mean you think the
government should regulate that behavior. For instance, Frank didn't
that think people should use recreational drugs but he didn't agree with
the goverment prohibiting that behavior. Just because someone thinks
it's bad doesn't mean it should be illegal!
For what it's worth, I don't think that "Cosmic Debris" has ANYTHING to
do with abortion. I'm new to this group (and to Zappa's music for that
matter) but I don't know how you can extrapolate an abortion message out
of that song. Sounds like total BS to me. I always thought that Zappa
was trying to show that "mystical" explanations of the world were just
another way to make a buck. But what the hell do I know?
Lurker Mode ON:
--
---------------
Matt Perry
mape...@vt.edu
Manning Bartlett
> to blood, killing and insensitivity to living beings and creatures.
>
> There is no religion or fortune teller, that I have knowledge about,
> that involves cutting up creatures, dead ones or alive. That is,
> unless it's about satanic cults or whatnot.
You're implying that a butcher is some form of brutal barbarian. Obviously
I acknowledge this interpretation. However the role of a butcher seldom
involves the killing of animals, this is a role usually performed by a
'slaughterman'. A butcher is typical involved in the preparation of meats
for human consumption by cutting the carcass. As such it is a role that
has been regarded with dignity throughout history, and in some religions
such as Judaism it is a role that has sacred implications.
So alternatively this reference to "more money as a butcher" is Zappa
pointing out that the choice of "mystery man" (ie: some sort of sham-an)
as a career is a poor one, whereas the choice of an honest trade (such as
butcher or carpenter, etc) is a good one. Zappa had a very strong work
ethic, and was highly suspicious of people who attempted to make a living
by delivering 'spiritual salvation' in any form (eg: the "tax the
churches" slogan).
Manning
Timothy Meyers
would be better than weaseling money out of gullible religious folk.
Replacing "butcher" with "janitor" would have meant the same thing.
(I always thought this post was crap, just say "newbie insecurity" and
that's that.)
-tim-
It Never Entered My Mind <o...@stockholm.com> wrote:
:>RDNZL <ech...@erolsx.com> writes:
:> All I can say is from the very first time I heard the song upon it's
:>release, it was obvious to me the tune is about being sucked
:>into religious cults by myterious strangers promising eternal life
: You're close, but not cigar!
: The song's closing referring to "should have been a butcher" refers
: to blood, killing and insensitivity to living beings and creatures.
: There is no religion or fortune teller, that I have knowledge about,
: that involves cutting up creatures, dead ones or alive. That is,
: unless it's about satanic cults or whatnot.
: But, the crystal ball and the song's other aspects seem to point the
Bill
Thanks, Michael.
Thinking like this ( http://www.patriot.net/users/billf/bluelight.html )
comes quite naturally.
Bill
GoDrex30
completely out of his mind. And that's no joke.
Matt Perry <mape...@vt.edu> wrote in article <36B40F00...@vt.edu>...
It Never Entered My Mind
>> It IS possible to be anti-abortion AND pro-choice. Think about it - Just
>> because you don't condone a certain behavior doesn't mean you think the
>> government should regulate that behavior. For instance, Frank didn't
>> that think people should use recreational drugs but he didn't agree with
>> the goverment prohibiting that behavior. Just because someone thinks
>> it's bad doesn't mean it should be illegal!
Well, I haven't decided how I feel and think about this issue. I
know there are strong elements to both sides. And the worst part of
this question, is that it's so controversial. People are getting
gunned down and bombed for carrying out that lethal medical
procedure. It's clear to me, that this is a classic case of
"spilled milk". The mess is there, and who is gonna clean it up? The
answer is the doctor at the medical center. But what is society,
government, school and just the average person's peers doing and
their parents in the way of avoiding that such a mess ever gets to
happen? How much discussion and strength do people have in the way
of discussing anti-conception measures? A few weeks back, an
Arkansas hooker had her blood examined to shed some light on whether
has kid had anything to do with the President of the United States,
apparently a customer of those services at some point in time.
>> For what it's worth, I don't think that "Cosmic Debris" has ANYTHING to
>> do with abortion. I'm new to this group (and to Zappa's music for that
>> matter) but I don't know how you can extrapolate an abortion message out
>> of that song. Sounds like total BS to me. I always thought that Zappa
>> was trying to show that "mystical" explanations of the world were just
>> another way to make a buck. But what the hell do I know?
The lyrics seem to juxtapose two difference scenarios. What I
suspect happened, was that Zappa penned out one night a song about
this very serious life and death issue, but the next morning, (in a
different mood) looked at it, cringed at having to sing and perform
a song with that subject matter. But, not wanting to shy away from
being true to himself and standing up for this throughts, he left in
some of the rough draft of the original song, and altered the
remainder to confuse fans...at least enough to avoid offending them,
or adopting a paternalistic attitude or outright shocking them.
That's why there's those bits about the mystery man, etc.
"Any man who isn't prepared to surrender his life for his ideas is a
coward"
Ray Dittmeier
Sanskrit text:
>For what it's worth, I don't think that "Cosmic Debris" has ANYTHING to
>do with abortion. I'm new to this group (and to Zappa's music for that
>matter) but I don't know how you can extrapolate an abortion message out
>of that song. Sounds like total BS to me. I always thought that Zappa
>was trying to show that "mystical" explanations of the world were just
>another way to make a buck. But what the hell do I know?
For one thing, you know what Cosmic Debris is really about.
Abortion? Good grief, Zappa was never that subtle.
--
Mother Nature's a mad scientist, Jerry!
--Cosmo Kramer
Tal
<36b69e23...@news.total.net>...
>>Matt Perry wrote
>
>>> It IS possible to be anti-abortion AND pro-choice. Think about it - Just
>>> because you don't condone a certain behavior doesn't mean you think the
>>> government should regulate that behavior. For instance, Frank didn't
>>> that think people should use recreational drugs but he didn't agree with
>>> the goverment prohibiting that behavior. Just because someone thinks
>>> it's bad doesn't mean it should be illegal!
>
>Well, I haven't decided how I feel and think about this issue. I
>know there are strong elements to both sides. And the worst part of
>this question, is that it's so controversial. People are getting
>gunned down and bombed for carrying out that lethal medical
>procedure.
Well, *I* don't consider abortion a lethal medical procedure.
> It's clear to me, that this is a classic case of
>"spilled milk". The mess is there, and who is gonna clean it up? The
>answer is the doctor at the medical center. But what is society,
>government, school and just the average person's peers doing and
>their parents in the way of avoiding that such a mess ever gets to
>happen? How much discussion and strength do people have in the way
>of discussing anti-conception measures?
That's a bogus way of thinking. You can say the same for all accidents, many
diseases and pretty much most other things that happen to people. Do you
want to stop people who smoke(d) from getting help? Or people with
sportinjuries? Or people who were drunk and had a car-accident?
>A few weeks back, an
>Arkansas hooker had her blood examined to shed some light on whether
>has kid had anything to do with the President of the United States,
>apparently a customer of those services at some point in time.
I could be wrong here, but first of all the DNA didn't match, and I haven't
seen any witness-reports or video or whatever to put any truth in your
assumption.
>>> For what it's worth, I don't think that "Cosmic Debris" has ANYTHING to
>>> do with abortion. I'm new to this group (and to Zappa's music for that
>>> matter) but I don't know how you can extrapolate an abortion message out
>>> of that song. Sounds like total BS to me. I always thought that Zappa
>>> was trying to show that "mystical" explanations of the world were just
>>> another way to make a buck. But what the hell do I know?
>
>The lyrics seem to juxtapose two difference scenarios. What I
>suspect happened, was that Zappa penned out one night a song about
>this very serious life and death issue, but the next morning, (in a
>different mood) looked at it, cringed at having to sing and perform
>a song with that subject matter. But, not wanting to shy away from
>being true to himself and standing up for this throughts, he left in
>some of the rough draft of the original song, and altered the
>remainder to confuse fans...at least enough to avoid offending them,
>or adopting a paternalistic attitude or outright shocking them.
>That's why there's those bits about the mystery man, etc.
Oh, I thought this was about Cosmik Debris. I don't know the song you are
referring to.
Yours,
--Tal
_______________________
e-mail: an...@cidanka.nl
website: http://www.cidanka.nl
The Unofficial MK-BFD Website: http://www.cidanka.nl/keneally/
It Never Entered My Mind
wrote:
>> it's so controversial. People are getting
>>gunned down and bombed for carrying out that lethal medical
>>procedure.
>Well, *I* don't consider abortion a lethal medical procedure.
Usually in abortions, the fetus doesn't get away alive. And that
means it's a lethal procedure.
>That's a bogus way of thinking. You can say the same for all accidents, many
>diseases and pretty much most other things that happen to people. Do you
>want to stop people who smoke(d) from getting help? Or people with
>sportinjuries? Or people who were drunk and had a car-accident?
It depends. If there is a carrot and stick approach to abortions, in
that CONSUMERISM, sit-coms, television, school and all the rest of
motion pictures and art promote sexual relations, the age bracket
that is most sensitive with the least developed judgement from the
early age will adopt those indications....perform sexual relations,
and obviously will be customers for the abortion clinics afterwards.
Or in other words, assuming society encourages unwanted pregnancies
stemming from its greed for money, through commercial
establishments, and that cash is spent a great deal more by
consumers when there's a widely diffused culture of mores and norms
that celebrates sexual activity, isn't it natural that abortions
are being indirectly encouraged by society and by capitalism ?
Isn't it true, that maximizing sales and maximizing profits requires
a loose attitude among people in relation to their money, to incite
them to spend their money for stuff that will go into the pockets of
companies and makers of products ? And that loose attitudes signify
sexual liberalism, and in turn, capitalism out of control is saying
that it's cool to abort fetuses as much as anyone wants it doesn't
matter, as long as you spend your cash, you charge to the maximum
your credit card and you have as many sexual relations as possible
in your lifetime ? Of course, that would mean that it's no accident
that there are so many abortions .... they are being actively
promoted in the media, by marketing programs and capitalism as a
residue of greed for money? i.e. the cash value of your fetus is
zero, but the cash value of a coca cola or a Pepsi drink is higher?!
It Never Entered My Mind
wrote:
>That's a bogus way of thinking. You can say the same for all accidents, many
>diseases and pretty much most other things that happen to people. Do you
>want to stop people who smoke(d) from getting help?
Tobacco companies have agreed to pay BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in the last
few weeks, simply because they've realized that they manipulated the
Tobacco Institute of America (which was closed permanently this past
week) and medical reports in the past, which always DENIED the
health hazards that tobacco impacted on lungs and the human body?
CHRISTOPHER E. EKMAN
> A few weeks back, an Arkansas hooker had her blood examined to shed
> some light on whether has kid had anything to do with the President
> of the United States, apparently a customer of those services at
> some point in time.
And it turned out she was full of shit. JUST LIKE YOU!
Go back and listen to "Food Gathering in Post-Industrial America, 1992."
Chris Ekman
cek...@pomona.edu
Sam and/or Karen Rouse
> Well, I haven't decided how I feel and think about this issue. I
> know there are strong elements to both sides. And the worst part of
> this question, is that it's so controversial. People are getting
> gunned down and bombed for carrying out that lethal medical
> procedure. It's clear to me, that this is a classic case of
> "spilled milk". The mess is there, and who is gonna clean it up? The
> answer is the doctor at the medical center. But what is society,
> government, school and just the average person's peers doing and
> their parents in the way of avoiding that such a mess ever gets to
> happen? How much discussion and strength do people have in the way
> of discussing anti-conception measures?
Since you seem to be having a lucid moment, I thought I'd try responding to
this bit:
One of the things I find most disturbing about the whole issue is that it
seems many of the same folks that battle against abortion also want sex
education taken out of the schools (other than teaching abstinence), are
against Planned Parenthood and other advisory agencies, do not want kids of
school age to be supplied with condoms, etc. My impression is that they
want to do what they can to ensure that their idea of "God's wrath" be
visited upon any and all youngsters that dare to "sin." So they, at least,
ain't doing anything to help clean up the mess, and seem to be trying to
knock over another milkcan or two whenever they get the chance.
As for your Cozmik Debris analysis - I sure hope you were joking.
-Sam
--
Sam and/or Karen Rouse ro...@teleport.com
FZ Concert Tales:
http://www.teleport.com/~rouse/fz/
It Never Entered My Mind
<mann...@tig.com.au> wrote:
>> The song's closing referring to "should have been a butcher" refers
>> to blood, killing and insensitivity to living beings and creatures.
>> There is no religion or fortune teller, that I have knowledge about,
>> that involves cutting up creatures, dead ones or alive. That is,
>> unless it's about satanic cults or whatnot.
>
>You're implying that a butcher is some form of brutal barbarian. Obviously
>I acknowledge this interpretation. However the role of a butcher seldom
>involves the killing of animals, this is a role usually performed by a
>'slaughterman'. A butcher is typical involved in the preparation of meats
>for human consumption by cutting the carcass.
In my experience, often the slaughterman and the butcher are the one
and the same person. Of course, if you're working in an industrial
mean packing plant, all the jobs are tirelessly examined over and
over again for maximum productivity, and each job is specialized.
Those 2 functions are segregated. But most activity around the world
involves small restaurants and those kinds of operations, in which
there is NO CASH to be spend for 2 people doing 2 jobs. The butcher
and slaughterman, and the owner and the cashier and the accountant
and the manager might all be one person.
>So alternatively this reference to "more money as a butcher" is Zappa
>pointing out that the choice of "mystery man" (ie: some sort of sham-an)
>as a career is a poor one, whereas the choice of an honest trade (such as
>butcher or carpenter, etc) is a good one. Zappa had a very strong work
>ethic, and was highly suspicious of people who attempted to make a living
>by delivering 'spiritual salvation' in any form (eg: the "tax the
>churches" slogan).
I agree that Zappa was known for such thoughts, but the fact that he
mentions " butcher " and not "accountant" or "insurance salesman" or
something else more mundane, implies that Zappa knew exactly where
he wanted to go with this song. He wanted to imbed 2 meanings and 2
stories for the listener. One which could carry his philosophies and
inner beliefs, which reflected on his convictions and character;
coupled with a second meaning, which whittled down the shock value
of those convictions, to make it acceptable for the teenage
consumer.
It Never Entered My Mind
Karen Rouse) wrote:
>> The mess is there, and who is gonna clean it up? The
>> answer is the doctor at the medical center. But what is society,
>> government, school and just the average person's peers doing and
>> their parents in the way of avoiding that such a mess ever gets to
>> happen? How much discussion and strength do people have in the way
>> of discussing anti-conception measures?
>
> My impression is that they
>want to do what they can to ensure that their idea of "God's wrath" be
>visited upon any and all youngsters that dare to "sin." So they, at least,
>ain't doing anything to help clean up the mess, and seem to be trying to
>knock over another milkcan or two whenever they get the chance.
Perhaps it's true that history repeats itself endlessly, with the
people always doing the same mistakes. And no amount of education
will give the desired results. It's more likely a sociological and
cultural problem, involving an ENTIRE way-of-life and political
system.
>
>As for your Cozmik Debris analysis - I sure hope you were joking.
Zappa's material is open to many diverse interpretations. I don't
mean to suggest the meaning I indicated is the only one....I
suspect it's a second meaning coupled with the other one too.
Michael Pierry
>
>
> I agree that Zappa was known for such thoughts, but the fact that he
> mentions " butcher " and not "accountant" or "insurance salesman" or
> something else more mundane, implies that Zappa knew exactly where
> he wanted to go with this song. He wanted to imbed 2 meanings and 2
> stories for the listener. One which could carry his philosophies and
> inner beliefs, which reflected on his convictions and character;
> coupled with a second meaning, which whittled down the shock value
> of those convictions, to make it acceptable for the teenage
> consumer.
So in the live version of the song, when Frank says, "You could make more
money in syndication", that changes the whole meaning of the song?
Geir Corneliussen
> As for your Cozmik Debris analysis - I sure hope you were joking.
He was joking. I thought he was nuts, but he was joking.
Geir Corneliussen
Sam and/or Karen Rouse
Migs, I guess you fascinate me in some perverse way.)
In article <36b4ef7...@news.total.net>, o...@stockholm.com wrote:
> It's well known as Zappa sings in one song :
>
> "You really need to take a ride on the cosmik utensil ! "
>
> And in that song, it's clear that Zappa is referring to a male
> organ, as a cosmik utensil.
That's not clear at all - it's far more likely to refer to some kind of sex
toy intended for anal use; perhaps even one thinly disguised as a cross
between a kitchen gadget and vacuum cleaner attachment.
Your premise is flawed, so the resulting conclusions become ever more
skewed as they proceed. Nice try, though - here, have a bun.
Sam and/or Karen Rouse
> No no no. The cosmic utensil! That praze is from "packard goose" ,a song
> about stupid rewiev-writers like Penman! Where Zappa sing: Put down yer
> pencil, give yerself a squat on the cosmic utensil sit and spin until
> you rot on the cosmic utensil, you fuckin' Penman! It could be anything,
> this utensil! Stick it up yer ass Penman! Go fuck yourself, that's what
> he's saying. He's not gay! Nobody put down their pen and goes sit on a
> cock until they rot? They do? And one word in one particular song can
> mean something completely different in another. Of course! Not? No? It's
> about those moronic writers, those ego-mastrubating assholes. Go fuck
> yourself. Up yer ass buddy! You like that, huh? Well, sit there until
> you rot, then! :)
>
> Stuff like that. And so on.
That's a good interpretation. Also, "sit and spin" - usually accompanied
with middle finger extended - is another colorful version of "up yours."
Sam and/or Karen Rouse
> On Mon, 01 Feb 1999 05:09:18 +0100, Geir Corneliussen
> <corn...@online.no> wrote:
>
> > never learned English at school, I think Zappa'a lyrics
> >done it for me. Before that, I only wrote in Norwegian. I like this
> >newsgroup.
>
> When it comes right down to it, I think this technology or medium is
> incredible.
>
> And to use it for jokes, play on words, discussion about an
> individual artist - Zappa - it's really something.
>
> All this, and more, for roughly $20 per month going to your local
> ISP.
>
> In honor of Zappa, and this newsgroup, here's another quote (bear
> with me) :
>
> "You compose because you want to somehow summarize in some permanent
> form your most basic feelings about being alive, to set down...some
> sort of permanent statement about the way it feels to live now,
> today. So that when it"s all gone, people will be able to go to the
> artwork of the time and get some sense of what it felt like to be
> alive in this year." - Aaron Copland
Goddam, Miguel, that was a great post. Good quote, too.
-Sam
Michael Pierry
>
>
> that CONSUMERISM, sit-coms, television, school and all the rest of
> motion pictures and art promote sexual relations, the age bracket
> that is most sensitive with the least developed judgement from the
> early age will adopt those indications....perform sexual relations,
> and obviously will be customers for the abortion clinics afterwards.
There has been attempt to remedy this in recent years. Condom ads air
regularly on many cable channels (still not allowed on network TV for the most
part, because the conservative guys who own the stations are against it-- how
much you wanna bet they're anti-abortion, too?). Also, you will find condoms
mentioned in some TV shows that deal with sex, especially if the show is
geared toward teen audiences. For example, in an episode of Dawson's Creek
where two of the characters have sex, there is a clear shot of a condom
wrapper on the nightstand next to the bed. Thus the presumption is that they
had safe sex.
It's also hard to tell exactly what effect TV has on one's actual sexual
activities. People have always had sex, and judging from the amount of people
that are on this planet, I'd say they've been at it rather a lot. In fact,
I'd say that most TV and movies that have sexual content, actually promote the
safest sex of all, namely masturbation.
>
> Or in other words, assuming society encourages unwanted pregnancies
> stemming from its greed for money, through commercial
> establishments, and that cash is spent a great deal more by
> consumers when there's a widely diffused culture of mores and norms
> that celebrates sexual activity, isn't it natural that abortions
> are being indirectly encouraged by society and by capitalism ?
Well, people have sex for a lot of different reasons. It's my opinion that
the dominant American culture is still quite sexually repressed. That doesn't
mean we don't have sex a lot, as a society, but we don't like to talk about it
that much. That has to be part of the reason why dirty jokes make us laugh so
much.
If you take a look at all the "four-letter words" that are generally
considered vulgar or obscene language, most of them revolve around sex or
bodily functions. It's quite arbitrary, too. For example, why is "shit" a
bad word, but not "feces"? It's probably because members of the aristocracy a
few centuries ago decided that the Anglo-Saxon word sounded nastier to their
ears than the more florid, two-syllable Latin word. Can you even think of a
single Latin-derived word that is considered an obscenity?
>
> Isn't it true, that maximizing sales and maximizing profits requires
> a loose attitude among people in relation to their money, to incite
> them to spend their money for stuff that will go into the pockets of
> companies and makers of products ? And that loose attitudes signify
> sexual liberalism, and in turn, capitalism out of control is saying
> that it's cool to abort fetuses as much as anyone wants it doesn't
> matter, as long as you spend your cash, you charge to the maximum
> your credit card and you have as many sexual relations as possible
> in your lifetime ? Of course, that would mean that it's no accident
> that there are so many abortions .... they are being actively
> promoted in the media, by marketing programs and capitalism as a
> residue of greed for money? i.e. the cash value of your fetus is
> zero, but the cash value of a coca cola or a Pepsi drink is higher?!
No, I don't think that a loose attitude regarding sex necessarily means that
they are trying to increase business for abortion doctors (I could be
misinterpreting you here, but that is what I think you are implying). Most
doctors in the United States will not even perform abortions. It is not what
businessmen would refer to as "a growth industry."
It Never Entered My Mind
I don't this to be interpreted as in bad taste, but examine this:
It's well known as Zappa sings in one song :
"You really need to take a ride on the cosmik utensil ! "
And in that song, it's clear that Zappa is referring to a male
organ, as a cosmik utensil.
Secondly, on this premise, consider the name of the song I examined:
COSMIK Debris.
Clearly, cosmik debris originates from the cosmik utensil.
i.e. debris = jizz = reproductive fluid.
And in Cosmik Debris, the song narrates a situation in which cosmik
debris or reproductive fluid caused a problem for a given female
person, I presume. The chorus of the song is by females, of course.
And then, there's the bit in the song, in which Zappa sings "Little
fella, it'll cure your asma too ! "
This means is the doctor addressing the fetus, as little fella, and
telling him his procedure will cure the fetus of asma... asma being
a euphemism for breathing. i.e. the abortionist will terminate the
breathing of the living creature inside.
Therefore, adding up cosmik (utensil, or debris from the utensil)
and adding up "little fella", and other clues, it's clear what Zappa
was talkin' about in that song.
And it's clear what Zappa's convictions were on this issue, at the
time. But in order to not shock the teenage audience, and the cash
rollin' in from fans, he had to mitigate the message to not scare
anyone off.
Later.
Manning Bartlett
constructed argument.
Cheers
Manning
It Never Entered My Mind wrote:
It Never Entered My Mind
<still...@home.com> wrote:
>Can you even think of a single Latin-derived
>word that is considered an obscenity?
Nope... I am not fluent in it. :(
Jerry Hull
wrote:
>On Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:58:11 +0100, Geir Corneliussen
><corn...@online.no> wrote:
>
>>Sam and/or Karen Rouse wrote:
>>
>>> As for your Cozmik Debris analysis - I sure hope you were joking.
>>
>>He was joking. I thought he was nuts, but he was joking.
>
>I don't this to be interpreted as in bad taste, but examine this:
>
>It's well known as Zappa sings in one song :
>
>"You really need to take a ride on the cosmik utensil ! "
>
>And in that song, it's clear that Zappa is referring to a male
>organ, as a cosmik utensil.
That's funny. I thought the expression referred to a toilet! Shows you where
my mind is.
--
Jer
"However far you may travel in this world, you will still occupy
the same volume of space". Traditional Ur-Bororo saying.
Geir Corneliussen
>
> On Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:58:11 +0100, Geir Corneliussen
> <corn...@online.no> wrote:
>
> >Sam and/or Karen Rouse wrote:
> >
> >> As for your Cozmik Debris analysis - I sure hope you were joking.
> >
> >He was joking. I thought he was nuts, but he was joking.
>
> I don't this to be interpreted as in bad taste, but examine this:
>
> It's well known as Zappa sings in one song :
>
> "You really need to take a ride on the cosmik utensil ! "
>
> And in that song, it's clear that Zappa is referring to a male
> organ, as a cosmik utensil.
No no no. The cosmic utensil! That praze is from "packard goose" ,a song
about stupid rewiev-writers like Penman! Where Zappa sing: Put down yer
pencil, give yerself a squat on the cosmic utensil sit and spin until
you rot on the cosmic utensil, you fuckin' Penman! It could be anything,
this utensil! Stick it up yer ass Penman! Go fuck yourself, that's what
he's saying. He's not gay! Nobody put down their pen and goes sit on a
cock until they rot? They do? And one word in one particular song can
mean something completely different in another. Of course! Not? No? It's
about those moronic writers, those ego-mastrubating assholes. Go fuck
yourself. Up yer ass buddy! You like that, huh? Well, sit there until
you rot, then! :)
Stuff like that. And so on.
Geir Corneliussen
Phydoux 3
In article <36b69e23...@news.total.net>, o...@stockholm.com (It Never
Entered My Mind) writes:
>The lyrics seem to juxtapose two difference scenarios. What I
>suspect happened, was that Zappa penned out one night a song about
>this very serious life and death issue, but the next morning, (in a
>different mood) looked at it, cringed at having to sing and perform
>a song with that subject matter. But, not wanting to shy away from
>being true to himself and standing up for this throughts, he left in
>some of the rough draft of the original song, and altered the
>remainder to confuse fans...at least enough to avoid offending them,
>or adopting a paternalistic attitude or outright shocking them.
>That's why there's those bits about the mystery man, etc.
You are a FREAK
It Never Entered My Mind
<corn...@online.no> wrote:
>It could be anything, this utensil!
Well, in that case the conclusions will be so much more difficult to
arrive to.
Geir Corneliussen
>
Common sense. Even I know what that means, an ordinary Norwegian guy,
sitting here, never learned English at school, I think Zappa'a lyrics
done it for me. Before that, I only wrote in Norwegian. I like this
newsgroup. Sometimes, the obscure meaning isn't easy to catch. Thank you
very much, for making me think HARD. I am sorry to say I don't
understand much of your mind. The meaning is the same as it was when I
listened thru JG when I was 13 or so. Up yours! I found what he meant 20
years ago. I was a clever little rascal.....
Geir Corneliussen
It Never Entered My Mind
<corn...@online.no> wrote:
> never learned English at school, I think Zappa'a lyrics
>done it for me. Before that, I only wrote in Norwegian. I like this
>newsgroup.
When it comes right down to it, I think this technology or medium is
Phydoux 3
In article <36b4ef7...@news.total.net>, o...@stockholm.com (It Never Entered
My Mind) writes:
>>> As for your Cozmik Debris analysis - I sure hope you were joking.
>>
>>He was joking. I thought he was nuts, but he was joking.
>
>I don't this to be interpreted as in bad taste, but examine this:
>
>It's well known as Zappa sings in one song :
>
>"You really need to take a ride on the cosmik utensil ! "
>
>And in that song, it's clear that Zappa is referring to a male
>organ, as a cosmik utensil.
>
>Secondly, on this premise, consider the name of the song I examined:
>COSMIK Debris.
>
>Clearly, cosmik debris originates from the cosmik utensil.
>
>i.e. debris = jizz = reproductive fluid.
>
>And in Cosmik Debris, the song narrates a situation in which cosmik
>debris or reproductive fluid caused a problem for a given female
>person, I presume. The chorus of the song is by females, of course.
>
>And then, there's the bit in the song, in which Zappa sings "Little
>fella, it'll cure your asma too ! "
>
>This means is the doctor addressing the fetus, as little fella, and
>telling him his procedure will cure the fetus of asma... asma being
>a euphemism for breathing. i.e. the abortionist will terminate the
>breathing of the living creature inside.
>
>Therefore, adding up cosmik (utensil, or debris from the utensil)
>and adding up "little fella", and other clues, it's clear what Zappa
>was talkin' about in that song.
>
>And it's clear what Zappa's convictions were on this issue, at the
>time. But in order to not shock the teenage audience, and the cash
>rollin' in from fans, he had to mitigate the message to not scare
>anyone off.
>
>Later
FUCKING NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Phydoux 3
In article <36b50c19.2770997@news-server>, ZZZg...@stny.lrun.com (Jerry Hull)
writes:
>That's funny. I thought the expression referred to a toilet!
Thats what I think
Phy
Phydoux 3
In article <36B518...@online.no>, Geir Corneliussen <corn...@online.no>
writes:
>No no no. The cosmic utensil! That praze is from "packard goose" ,a song
>about stupid rewiev-writers like Penman! Where Zappa sing: Put down yer
>pencil, give yerself a squat on the cosmic utensil sit and spin until
>you rot on the cosmic utensil, you fuckin' Penman! It could be anything,
>this utensil! Stick it up yer ass Penman! Go fuck yourself, that's what
>he's saying. He's not gay! Nobody put down their pen and goes sit on a
>cock until they rot? They do? And one word in one particular song can
>mean something completely different in another. Of course! Not? No? It's
>about those moronic writers, those ego-mastrubating assholes. Go fuck
>yourself. Up yer ass buddy! You like that, huh? Well, sit there until
>you rot, then! :)
>
>Stuff like that. And so on.
>
>
>Geir Corneliussen
YES
Michael Pierry
>
>
> That's funny. I thought the expression referred to a toilet! Shows you where
> my mind is.
>
A toilet is not a utensil, unless you use it to eat your dinner.
Jerry Hull
>Jerry Hull wrote:
>>
>> That's funny. I thought the expression referred to a toilet! Shows you where
>> my mind is.
>
>A toilet is not a utensil, unless you use it to eat your dinner.
Ah, kids, whatta they know? "Utensil .... Vessels or implements for domestic
use .... A chamber pot". Just make sure you scrub it out a bit before you use
it for soup.
Michael Pierry
>
> <still...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Can you even think of a single Latin-derived
> >word that is considered an obscenity?
>
> Nope... I am not fluent in it. :(
English, you mean?
Michael Pierry
>
> Migs, I guess you fascinate me in some perverse way.)
>
>
> > It's well known as Zappa sings in one song :
> >
> > "You really need to take a ride on the cosmik utensil ! "
> >
> > And in that song, it's clear that Zappa is referring to a male
> > organ, as a cosmik utensil.
>
> toy intended for anal use; perhaps even one thinly disguised as a cross
> between a kitchen gadget and vacuum cleaner attachment.
>
(possibly a fork, or perhaps a corkscrew) floating in space.
bm...@yahoo.com
o...@stockholm.com wrote:
> >RDNZL <ech...@erolsx.com> writes:
>
> > All I can say is from the very first time I heard the song upon it's
> >release, it was obvious to me the tune is about being sucked
> >into religious cults by myterious strangers promising eternal life
>
> You're close, but not cigar!
>
> The song's closing referring to "should have been a butcher" refers
> to blood, killing and insensitivity to living beings and creatures.
>
Sigh.
I don't think you're even close.
The line had something to do with "you could make more money as a butcher",
"since the price of meat has just gone up" (ok, some obvious sexual innuendo)
Besides, being a butcher is a legal profession vs. being a drug dealer.
B (I'm a sensitive butcher in my spare time)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Geir Corneliussen
> Goddam, Miguel, that was a great post. Good quote, too.
Yes, but that was the healthy part of his brain.....
Just kidding, Miggy :)
Geir Corneliussen
Jason Arvey
> I don't this to be interpreted as in bad taste, but examine this:
>
> It's well known as Zappa sings in one song :
>
> "You really need to take a ride on the cosmik utensil ! "
>
> And in that song, it's clear that Zappa is referring to a male
> organ, as a cosmik utensil.
>
> Secondly, on this premise, consider the name of the song I examined:
> COSMIK Debris.
>
> Clearly, cosmik debris originates from the cosmik utensil.
Clearly, the cosmic utensil comes AFTER the "Cozmik Debris",
conceptually. Cosmic, however, refers rather well to the mysteries of
space and ether, which is what the Myster Man is selling.
>
> i.e. debris = jizz = reproductive fluid.
>
> And in Cosmik Debris, the song narrates a situation in which cosmik
> debris or reproductive fluid caused a problem for a given female
> person, I presume. The chorus of the song is by females, of course.
The NARRATOR, however, is a MAN. The backup singers in "Uncle Remus"
are women, too, but I don't hear you telling me that it's about
transvestites.
>
> And then, there's the bit in the song, in which Zappa sings "Little
> fella, it'll cure your asma too ! "
>
> This means is the doctor addressing the fetus, as little fella, and
> telling him his procedure will cure the fetus of asma... asma being
> a euphemism for breathing. i.e. the abortionist will terminate the
> breathing of the living creature inside.
Asthma is a euphemism for NOT breathing. If the opertation you
hypothesize is to cure asthma, then it would not kill th evictim, but
make him better able to breathe freely.
>
> Therefore, adding up cosmik (utensil, or debris from the utensil)
> and adding up "little fella", and other clues, it's clear what Zappa
> was talkin' about in that song.
>
> And it's clear what Zappa's convictions were on this issue, at the
> time. But in order to not shock the teenage audience, and the cash
> rollin' in from fans, he had to mitigate the message to not scare
> anyone off.
I still maintain that your arguments are faulty, and that the song is
about the Psychic Friends Network and other similar scams.
--Jason Arvey
>
> Later.
Jason Arvey
>
>
What are you talking about?! It's not a great post -- it's smokescreen
to cover the fact hat he has no idea what he's talking about in regard
to Apostrophe.
-_Jason arvey
Jason Arvey
>
> On Mon, 01 Feb 1999 03:59:00 +0100, Geir Corneliussen
> <corn...@online.no> wrote:
>
> >It could be anything, this utensil!
>
> arrive to.
This is VERY indicative of your thinking style, Miguel. you posit a
conclusion, and then manipulate the facts to reflect that conclusion.
how about listneing to the facts first, then coming up with a
conclusion, and hten explaining that conclusion with the facts on hand?
You can still be revolutionary this way, and you'll make more sense.
--Jason Arvey
Ray Dittmeier
original Sanskrit text:
>It Never Entered My Mind wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 01 Feb 1999 00:09:26 GMT, Michael Pierry
>> <still...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Can you even think of a single Latin-derived
>> >word that is considered an obscenity?
>>
>> Nope... I am not fluent in it. :(
>
>English, you mean?
No, thinking.
--
Mother Nature's a mad scientist, Jerry!
--Cosmo Kramer
Neal
Jason Arvey wrote in message <36B5E032...@midway.uchicago.edu>...
> I still maintain that your arguments are faulty, and that the song is
>about the Psychic Friends Network and other similar scams.
Aside - when the Psychic Friends Network went bankrupt, why didn't they see
it coming?
all...@my-dejanews.com
Hello
I am trying to locate a recording of Zappa with Arthur Brown guestung with
him, I believe the bootleg was called "Swiss Cheese"
Anybody know where I could get a copy, preferabley in the UK.
Many thanks
Matthew north
Email
in...@gothic-rock.freeserve.co.uk
Jon Naurin
>I am trying to locate a recording of Zappa with Arthur Brown guestung with
>him, I believe the bootleg was called "Swiss Cheese"
A misunderstanding, and a pretty funny one. "Swiss Cheese" and "Fire!" are two
bootlegs from the legendary concert in Montreux 1971, where some stupid with a
flaregun burned the place to the ground. The start of the fire can be heard on
"Fire!", and as they stop playing, Mark Volman shouts "Fire - Arthur Brown in
person, ladies and gentlemen!". This is, of course, in reference to TCWOAB's
classic "Fire!".
To my knowledge, FZ and AB never shared stage. Jimmy Carl Black and Artur ran
a house painting company in the 80s, though.
- Jon
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-= To reply, swap "swop" for "swip" in my address. =-=
=-= =-=
=-= Check out the Zappa concert database FZShows at: =-=
=-= http://www.frontiernet.net/~prem/fzshows.htm =-=
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
NI...@sword.edg
so this is how rumors start
Texan Hawk
Written By :Û nau...@mbox300.swopnet.se (Jon Naurin)
Msg. Status:Û Please reply!
Node number:Û 1
ßßßßßßßßßßßß
I'm just wondering, is there a tape of FZ being shuved of the stage? I mean,
that would be f..ked up.
Texan Hawk = the mighty eagle slayer!!!
I could set this cold blue world a blaze
the sun would still rise,but I could never replace, who you are.
[Personal Tag]: buy dada by dada
He was majoring in animal husbandry until they caught him at it.
Origin: Atomnos BBS * 412-766-8149
Bird3149
I think it's really interesting what o...@stockholm.com is deciphering from
Cosmik Debris.
And it is a fact that Frank Zappa knew someone would come around and get it all
wrong. Why else would Frank end up refute the abortion issue by including the
very lines that o...@stockholm.com leave out...!?!
And I quote:
"Look here brother, who you jiving with that Cosmik Debris!"---in this passage,
Frank is telling listeners that false prophets will arrive through the
internet, selling you things you shouldn't ought to buy, and not only that, but
they've been planning this for years!
And furthermore...
"What kind of a Guru are you anyway?"----in this Frank makes referance to
o...@stockholm.com's poor command of Zappa lore and misguidnance of his anger
towards social issues.
>And in Cosmik Debris, the song narrates a situation in which cosmik
>debris or reproductive fluid caused a problem for a given female
>person, I presume. The chorus of the song is by females, of course.
>
>fella, it'll cure your asma too ! "
>
>This means is the doctor addressing the fetus, as little fella, and
>telling him his procedure will cure the fetus of asma... asma being
>a euphemism for breathing. i.e. the abortionist will terminate the
>breathing of the living creature inside.
>
ZappaLVR
In article <36b7a67b...@wwivbbs.org>, "Texan Hawk" <ww...@pppproject.org>
writes:
>
>I'm just wondering, is there a tape of FZ being shuved of the stage? I mean,
>
>that would be f..ked up.
>Texan Hawk = the mighty eagle slayer!!!
According to the YCDTOSA Vol. 4 notes (re: KING KONG), no, there is no
recording of that event. Apparently the tape ran out before the "fan" ran up
and did that to Frank. Or was this anecdote in TRFZB. Who can tell anymore?
I have no time to fact check right now.
Zapp...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/ZappaLVR/zappalvr.html
"There's something in you that wants to come out. Not because you want to brag
about it, but you say ' this could be the best of who or what I am. These are
my good ideas.' " Frank Zappa-1988
Geir Corneliussen
snap
...
> "What kind of a Guru are you anyway?"----in this Frank makes referance to
> o...@stockholm.com's poor command of Zappa lore and misguidnance of his anger
> towards social issues.
A Good one!
Geir Corneliussen
StucoHomes
There is no KING KONG on volume 4.
-----
Jody - aka Jack Armstrong/Stucco Homes
"Write it down for me, I'll put it in mein column next week..." - faust
"Iao Zai Zao Mai Mao Tai Tao Now" - Daevid Allen
"..then I laid down on the couch and I got my snooze on..." - Arbuckle Jones
ZappaLVR
In article <19990203183409...@ng03.aol.com>,
stuco...@aol.complicated (StucoHomes) writes:
>
>>According to the YCDTOSA Vol. 4 notes (re: KING KONG), no, there is no
>
>There is no KING KONG on volume 4.
oops! It was late. Obviously, I meant Vol. 3. [Pee Wee Herman voice] Heh
heh...my mistake!
Rolf Maurer
>>all...@my-dejanews.com writes:
>>To my knowledge, FZ and AB never shared stage. Jimmy Carl Black and Artur ran
>>a house painting company in the 80s, though.
>so this is how rumors start
It's not a rumour! It was reported on AFFZ just the other day.
Rolf
____________________________
Ken Dodd's Dad's dog's dead
____________________________