Re: The Most Annoying Song Ever...as far as Zappa songs....
ZGlikman
David Z
news:4c50cc6f$0$32705$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> Billy The Mountain
The whole Thing Fish album.
Les Cargill
... raises hand....
--
Les Cargill
The old geezer
> Billy The Mountain
"Trying to grow a chin"! Did he have to play this at EVERY concert???
(It seems).
TOG
Frunobulax_also
Hard to argue with that but for some reason I have to nominate "The
Torture Never Stops" as the most ironically named tune in FZ's
catalog, though I also have to admit I probably wouldn't have this
opinion were it not for the endless inclusion of it in seemingly every
album he released during the late 80's/early 90's (I only like the CB
version).
Close seconds?
Advance Romance
Honey Don't You Want A Man Like Me?
Illinois Enema Bandit
Martin Gregorie
Jumbo Go Away
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
eelco janzen
And:
The Dangerous Kitchen IS annoying !!
VVV
eelco
Millard Isobar
ZGlikman <ZGli...@Flodog.com> wrote:
> Billy The Mountain
That Michael Kenyon song.
Millard
computeruser
> The Dangerous Kitchen IS annoying !!
>
> VVV
> eelco
2nd
All the songs in the vein of Dangerous Kitchen, are annoying. Another
one that comes to mind is the version of Torture Never Stops which
mimicks the style. Annoying! Another in this vein is The Jazz
Discharge Party Hats. Annoying!
Why did Mike Keneally do this one with the Zappa's Universe?
Frunobulax_also
I actually like the "original" version of the song as released on MFU
with the Steve Vai overdubs but, yeah, every other version I have ever
heard is really, really stupid.
David Z
news:4c518ec5$0$75035$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl...
What? The Illinois Enema Bandit? That's song's great! I crack up
everytime I hear it. As musically, it's great, too.
I also like The Torture Never Stops and the other 2 songs you listed, but
not as much. Billy The Mountain is OK, but too long.
> And:
> The Dangerous Kitchen IS annoying !!
The Dangerous Kitchen sounds like it belongs on Thing Fish.
Frunobulax_also
Too much yapping, and the subject matter is dull. Speaking of which, I
can't believe I forgot "Titties and Beer" which is a song I not only
nominate as the single most annoying thing in his repertoire but also
a real thorn in my Zappa Proselytizing's side.
=P
Don't expect anyone to agree with me. After all, I love and can still
laugh through "The Radio is Broken"
eelco janzen
Proselytizing ???
WHERE´S MY DICTIONARY ???
VVV
eelco
Frunobulax_also
As in: "This FZ guy - wotta musician and genius he was. You have not
lived until you have heard his musics. My but they are sublime."
To which I am then countered with: "That's when the devil, he farted
And she went right over the cliff! - to you thi is the wok of a
genius?"
D'oh!
David Z
news:fbba97a5-9507-4b12...@y32g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
Yup. Tell 'em to go back to their Barry Manilow and have a nice day.
Does Titties and Beer bother you or does it bother you that it bothers other
people? Do you need other people's approval to enjoy Zappa?
ttuerff
> "Frunobulax_also" <sevri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Tempted as I am to go with the rest of you who think it's Thingfish, I
vote for "Sex" on MFU. AWFUL.
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
> Another in this vein is The Jazz
> Discharge Party Hats. Annoying!
>
> Why did Mike Keneally do this one with the Zappa's Universe?
I like it musically, sort of like a vocalized Ornette Coleman solo
with a groupie story attached. Perhaps MK felt similarly?
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Frunobulax_also
people?
If it didn't bother me, it wouldn't bother me that it bothered other
people. I think the song is stupid.
> Do you need other people's approval to enjoy Zappa?
Just yours, David. You're so cool.
David Z
> Proselytize: for to promote.
Close, but clearly wrong.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proselytize
1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
David Z
>> Does Titties and Beer bother you or does it bother you that it bothers
>> other
> people?
>
> If it didn't bother me, it wouldn't bother me that it bothered other
> people. I think the song is stupid.
Great song. Your loss.
>> Do you need other people's approval to enjoy Zappa?
>
> Just yours, David. You're so cool.
My advice to you -- quit proselytizing.
eelco janzen
yeah, there should be a law against proselytizing !!!
VVV
eelco
ZaPGuZ
Zappa's best works.
--
Bye, Guus
Homepage http://zapguz.nl Videopage http://youtube.com/zapguz
David Z
> The Dangerous Kitchen IS annoying !!
I'm trying to think of a good description of the vocal style that Zappa uses
on Dangerous Kitchen. The best description I can come up with is "sarcastic
retard."
Does that nail it or do you have a better way to describe this vocal style?
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
> I'm trying to think of a good description of the vocal style that Zappa uses
> on Dangerous Kitchen. The best description I can come up with is "sarcastic
> retard."
>
> Does that nail it or do you have a better way to describe this vocal style?
Explosive jazz-poetry mastery. Alternatively, Zappa doing something
he liked doing even if some of the fans disagreed.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
eelco janzen
Yes, you are in the right direction but for me it is also "faking
nonchalance" (is this English?)
VVV
eelco
David Z
news:bb075f76-e395-4130...@j9g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 31, 2:54 pm, "David Z" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> I'm trying to think of a good description of the vocal style that Zappa
>> uses
>> on Dangerous Kitchen. The best description I can come up with is
>> "sarcastic
>> retard."
>>
>> Does that nail it or do you have a better way to describe this vocal
>> style?
>
> Explosive jazz-poetry mastery.
Mastery? You're too kind. It sound more masterbatory than mastery to me.
> Alternatively, Zappa doing something he liked doing even if some of the
> fans disagreed.
Yeah, I guess he's entitled to that. He put out so much great stuff
otherwise.
David Z
Yeah, I can see that. Sound like he's trying to say he's above it all to
some extent.
Martin Gregorie
Yes - ish.
To me TDK is slightly an odd man out in that the styling doesn't quite
fit. At least, not as well as it fits The Radio Is Broken.
TRIB and Cheepnis sit quite well together because both have the same half-
mocking, half-admiration to B-grade SF movies though the style is quite
different, of course. I'm sympathetic: I like terrible movies like The
Wild Women Of Wongo, Plan 9 From Outer Space or George Pal's version of
The War Of The Worlds.
Joachim Ott
> David Z wrote:
>> "ZGlikman"<ZGli...@Flodog.com> wrote in message
>> news:4c50cc6f$0$32705$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>> Billy The Mountain
>>
>> The whole Thing Fish album.
>>
>>
>
You two ugly white folks know nuthin. Thing Fish is #1
Frunobulax_also
#1 is a perfect tongue in cheek translation of how I meant the term
(especially as many have said Zappa is my religion - also clearly
wrong and yet apt) and #2 fits perfectly as my cause is to introduce
people to things that have moved me (Zappa being one of them) so that
they, too, can enjoy it and spread the love.
> My advice to you -- quit proselytizing.
I was kidding about needing your approval, Dave. Sorry.
> yeah, there should be a law against proselytizing !!!
Only of the real (i.e.; religious) kind - spreading one's love of art
and music to others is a fine practice as long as one knows when to
stop.
David Z
I think we've got it now. The vocal style that Zappa uses on The Dangerous
Kitchen
is best described as "sarcastic retard faking nonchalance."
Michael Brenna
> I'm trying to think of a good description of the vocal style that Zappa uses
> on Dangerous Kitchen. The best description I can come up with is "sarcastic
> retard."
>
> Does that nail it or do you have a better way to describe this vocal style?
This particular vocal style is dead serious, and FZ knew it well.
See http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Sprechgesang, and listen to
Pierrot Lunaire.
David Z
news:8995f61b-1ca7-4ea4...@i28g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
The page you cited says that Zappa uses the "Sprechstimme technique on a
number of songs, including "Trouble Every Day" (from the album Freak Out!),
"I'm The Slime" (from Over-Nite Sensation), "Dumb All Over" (from You Are
What You Is), on "Dangerous Kitchen", "The Radio Is Broken" and "The Jazz
Discharge Party Hats" (from The Man from Utopia). He also uses the technique
on his more recent works with the Ensemble Modern including "Food Gathering
in Post-Industrial America, 1992", and "Welcome to the United States" (from
Yellow Shark)."
Zappa's vocal style on Trouble Every Day and I'm The Slime is very different
than the style he uses on The Dangerous Kitchen. I wouldn't characterize
the style Zappa uses on these two songs as "sarcastic retard" at all. Not
even close. Including these two songs indicates to me that the author of
this page is simply talking about rapping as opposed to singing. In fact,
the first sentence of this page says "Sprechgesang and Sprechstimme (German
for spoken-song and spoken-voice) are musical terms used to refer to an
expressionist vocal technique that falls between singing and speaking."
That sounds to me like rapping. The style Zappa uses on The Dangerous
Kitchen is a very narrow subset of rapping.
BTW, could you tell me where to find the link to "listen to Pierrot
Lunaire?" I couldn't find it on the page you cited.
Michael Brenna
better (but still blurry):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprechgesang
Not many of the FZ examples in the article I posted fit my idea of
Sprechgesang, but Dangerous Kitchen and Party Hats do. Drowning Witch
should have been on the list, and others too.
For Pierrot Lunaire, I would suggest this Boulez recording:
http://www.amazon.com/Schoenberg-Herzgew%C3%A4chse-Napoleon-Pittman-Jennings-InterContempolain/dp/B00000DBV6
"Sarcastic retard" could be a description of the lyrical content,
perhaps, but not the musical style.
David Z
The lyrical content is not what I'm talking about.
What Dangerous Kitchen, Party Hats, and Drowning Witch also have in common
(in addition to what I call "Sarcastic retard faking nonchalance") is that
Zappa uses a vocal style which could be called scat singing with words. The
only other artist example of this technique that I can think of is King
Pleasure singing Jumpin' With Symphony Sid or Parker's Mood. Check out the
link below.
http://www.amazon.com/King-Pleasure-Sings-Annie/dp/B000000YC6
I tried searching youtube for longer versions of these songs, but the sound
quality was awful.
Scat-with-words may be a better description of this vocal style in the
classic sense, but that's not at all what I'm talking about. "Sarcastic
retard faking nonchalance" is the attitude Zappa adds to his scat-with-words
technique.
Try this. Take yourself back to the playground in 4th grade. Now do an
imitation of a retarded kid. Now add some sarcasm to it. Now for the final
"eyebrows", add some faux nonchalance at the end. THAT'S "Sarcastic retard
faking nonchalance." Not the scat-with-words technique.
Michael Brenna
cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocalese
Zappa's own term was 'meltdown', as cited in Slaven's biography (2003
pperback), p. 315. See also p.296/297.
David Z
Don't have the book. Unless you or someone else can cite the section, I'll
have to find it in the library.
David Z
Also, Zappa uses the scat-with-words technique or "Vocalese" on Inca Roads,
but without the "Sarcastic retard faking nonchalance" attitude thing.
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
> Yes, I think the FZ technique fits with that too,
> cf.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocalese
Vocalese is setting words to an existing instrumental solo and then
singing it.
That means the Man From Utopia tracks would be reverse vocalese.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
David Z
news:45fe0879-5f3d-4422...@x25g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Charles Ulrich
"David Z" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
Slaven's EDQ is available on Google Books.
See also:
<http://www.afka.net/Articles/1992-10_Tmershi_Duween.htm>
<http://www.afka.net/Articles/1987-02_Music_Technology.htm>
Not to mention TRFZB, p. 184.
--Charles