Ryko labels revisited
Mike Espinoza
opposed to the purple face silhouette or the black cat labels)?
Also, was Broadway The Hard Way or YCDTOSA3 ever released with grey
labelled discs?
--
Mike E.
------------
"Too often, men measure themselves by what they can consume or destroy rather
than what they can create."
Dan
Espinoza) wrote:
>Does anyone have YCDTOSA5 or 6 on black and blue labelled discs (as
>opposed to the purple face silhouette or the black cat labels)?
>
>Also, was Broadway The Hard Way or YCDTOSA3 ever released with grey
>labelled discs?
My BTHW has the boring grey Ryko label. My YCDTOSA 5 & 6 are in the
old fat double-CD cases and they have labels in the same colours as
the cover. I think maybe 4 also has that. But not 1-3. I can look up
the record numbers for them if you're interested.
Milhouse Guidry of the mWo
>Does anyone have YCDTOSA5 or 6 on black and blue labelled discs (as
>opposed to the purple face silhouette or the black cat labels)?
-I think the old Ryko copies of 5 and 6 that I've seen used all had the discs
with grey printing, the right half being solid grey with silver text (e.g. the
parts where the disc surface was visible), the left half being the track
information in grey ink on the silver disc.
--Milhouse
--
Average dude.
Winner - 2004 March Melee
Final 4 - 2004 KoRSPW
mWo. It's not just the coolest, it's fa lyfe, so survey says
whether you like it or don't like it, never E-e-e-ver tell
me he did *not* just SMELL what mWo 3:16 reeks of.
Mike Espinoza
Guidry of the mWo) wrote:
>-I think the old Ryko copies of 5 and 6 that I've seen used all had the discs
>with grey printing, the right half being solid grey with silver text (e.g. the
>parts where the disc surface was visible), the left half being the track
>information in grey ink on the silver disc.
Really, Milhouse? I always believed that Ryko stopped using that
design by 1992 and maybe as far back as 1990. If those two discs were
released with the grey/silver surface, then ALL early FZ Rykodiscs
were and the black and purple labels were only on subsequent
pressings.
Mike Espinoza
>My YCDTOSA 5 & 6 are in the
>old fat double-CD cases and they have labels in the same colours as
>the cover. I think maybe 4 also has that. But not 1-3. I can look up
>the record numbers for them if you're interested.
Are those US Ryko releases?
Milhouse Guidry of the mWo
>>-I think the old Ryko copies of 5 and 6 that I've seen used all had the
>discs
>>with grey printing, the right half being solid grey with silver text (e.g.
>the
>>parts where the disc surface was visible), the left half being the track
>>information in grey ink on the silver disc.
>
>Really, Milhouse? I always believed that Ryko stopped using that
>design by 1992 and maybe as far back as 1990. If those two discs were
>released with the grey/silver surface, then ALL early FZ Rykodiscs
>were and the black and purple labels were only on subsequent
>pressings.
-I know that at least the last time I saw an older used copy of Vol. 5, it was
definitely grey labels, and I'm *fairly* certain that Vol. 6 was, too. I wish I
could remember if the two copies of Vol. 2 that I've seen were black labels or
otherwise. It's been a while.
Charles Ulrich
espi...@yaREMOVETHIShoo.com (Mike Espinoza) wrote:
> Does anyone have YCDTOSA5 or 6 on black and blue labelled discs (as
> opposed to the purple face silhouette or the black cat labels)?
My copies of YCDTOSA 5 and 6 have white printing on a black background
(with a wavy circumference). "RYKO" in light blue letters. Is that the
one you're asking about?
--Charles
Mike Espinoza
Strictly Commercial
> Does anyone have YCDTOSA5 or 6 on black and blue labelled discs (as
> opposed to the purple face silhouette or the black cat labels)?
>
> Also, was Broadway The Hard Way or YCDTOSA3 ever released with grey
> labelled discs?
My copies of YCDTOSA 1 and 2, both purchased within a year of their
release in 1988, have the silver/grey label. My copy of YCDTOSA 3, which
has the black label design, was released in 1989, but I can't swear to
when I bought it: possibly not until 1991, around the time that YCDTOSA
4 was released on a black label. My copies of Stage 5 and 6, released in
1992 and purchased by me as cut-outs (I paid $19 US for the two volumes,
and the offer included the coveted purple box) in 1996, also have the
black label. My copies of Stage 1 and 2 are the Canadian pressings; the
others are all US pressings.
The silver-grey label seems to have been phased out around 1989; I have
a number of CDs dated 1987-1990 period with the spindle-in-his-eye label
--- which seems to be associated with the FZ25 promotion, although I
have at least one disc with the FZ25 logo on the back cover but with
silver discs. The earliest black label CD I have dates from 1989, and in
my collection that label style dominates until the 1995 edition release.
A few discs purchased in that era (1990-95) did however come with the
spindle-in-his-eye label.
A few years ago, when we all had way too much time on our hands,
somebody here figured all this stuff out. Maybe somebody, now, with too
much time on their hands, could search out those old posts.
Rolf
Mike Espinoza
<maure...@telus.net> wrote:
>Mike Espinoza wrote:
>> Does anyone have YCDTOSA5 or 6 on black and blue labelled discs (as
>> opposed to the purple face silhouette or the black cat labels)?
>>
>> Also, was Broadway The Hard Way or YCDTOSA3 ever released with grey
>> labelled discs?
>
>My copies of YCDTOSA 1 and 2, both purchased within a year of their
>release in 1988, have the silver/grey label. My copy of YCDTOSA 3, which
>has the black label design, was released in 1989, but I can't swear to
>when I bought it: possibly not until 1991, around the time that YCDTOSA
>4 was released on a black label. My copies of Stage 5 and 6, released in
>1992 and purchased by me as cut-outs (I paid $19 US for the two volumes,
>and the offer included the coveted purple box) in 1996, also have the
>black label. My copies of Stage 1 and 2 are the Canadian pressings; the
>others are all US pressings.
>
>The silver-grey label seems to have been phased out around 1989;
I believed this to be true, as well. This is why Milhouse's answer
confused me. I didn't think that all of the white-spined Ryko
released were released with the grey labels. My guess was that the
last CD to be released with the grey label was either BTHW or
YCDTOSA3. Of course, if any of the 1990 CDs (Cat. # 1016x or 4016x)
were issued with grey/silver labels, that blows my theory out of the
water.
>I have
>a number of CDs dated 1987-1990 period with the spindle-in-his-eye label
>--- which seems to be associated with the FZ25 promotion, although I
>have at least one disc with the FZ25 logo on the back cover but with
>silver discs. The earliest black label CD I have dates from 1989, and in
>my collection that label style dominates until the 1995 edition release.
>A few discs purchased in that era (1990-95) did however come with the
>spindle-in-his-eye label.
>
>A few years ago, when we all had way too much time on our hands,
>somebody here figured all this stuff out. Maybe somebody, now, with too
>much time on their hands, could search out those old posts.
Charles' answer tells me that none of the original Ryko CDs were
initially released with the purple face label. Those were all
subsequent pressings beginning some time in 1993.
Brian Jackson
the black labels (blue Ryko and wavy circumference...), and I have a copy of
6 with the purple face.
B
Bil Hansen
"Mike Espinoza" wrote...
> Charles Ulrich :
>
> >(Mike Espinoza) wrote:
> >
> >> Does anyone have YCDTOSA5 or 6 on black and blue labelled discs (as
> >> opposed to the purple face silhouette or the black cat labels)?
> >
> >My copies of YCDTOSA 5 and 6 have white printing on a black background
> >(with a wavy circumference). "RYKO" in light blue letters. Is that the
> >one you're asking about?
>
> Yes it is. Thank you.
My YCDTOSA 5 and YCDTOSA 6 are in white spined Ryko boxes. The discs of 5
have black backgrounds with white printing except for RYKO in blue. The
discs of 5 have silver backgrounds with printing in black except for RYKO in
blue.
Cheers
Bil
Bil Hansen
"Bil Hansen" screwed up while writing news:41d1ec7f$1...@news.tm.net.my...
(no faces; these are the Ryko fat double-CD cases). My YCDTOSA 5 was
manufactured in the USA. My YCDTOSDA 6 was 'Manufactured by Festival Records
Pty. Ltd. Australia and New Zealand.' and carries the identifier D 70295 /6
(RCD 10091 /92).
Cheers
Bil
--
Penang, Malaysia
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
>Does anyone have YCDTOSA5 or 6 on black and blue labelled discs (as
>opposed to the purple face silhouette or the black cat labels)?
Yes to both.
>Also, was Broadway The Hard Way or YCDTOSA3 ever released with grey
>labelled discs?
BTHW, yes. YCDTOSA3, I don't think so--my copy, bought at the
time of release, has the black and blue label.
Your pal,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
This is a high fidelity usenet post. For best results observe the R.I.A.A.
high frequency roll-off characteristic with a 500 cycle crossover.
Ron Moses
> Does anyone have YCDTOSA5 or 6 on black and blue labelled discs (as
> opposed to the purple face silhouette or the black cat labels)?
Yes to both.
> Also, was Broadway The Hard Way or YCDTOSA3 ever released with grey
> labelled discs?
My copy of Broadway has the gray disc. My YCDTOSA3 is black and blue,
however.
ron
Ron Moses
>
> My copies of YCDTOSA 5 and 6 have white printing on a black background
> (with a wavy circumference). "RYKO" in light blue letters. Is that the
> one you're asking about?
White printing? Interesting, my printing appears to be silver, though I
suppose it's kind of a judgment call.
ron
Spindles in Beat Pops
Espinoza) wrote:
>Charles' answer tells me that none of the original Ryko CDs were
>initially released with the purple face label. Those were all
>subsequent pressings beginning some time in 1993.
I wonder whether some of the masters switched at that point, too. The
sampler that promoted that series ("You Can't Do That on the Radio")
uses the "bad" version of "Be In my Video," which I previously thought
originated in the Zappa Records catalogue, and didn't migrate over
until the '95 issues.
-D
Mike Espinoza
<ksg...@yifan.nyet> wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:25:16 GMT, espi...@yaREMOVETHIShoo.com (Mike
>Espinoza) wrote:
>
>
>>Charles' answer tells me that none of the original Ryko CDs were
>>initially released with the purple face label. Those were all
>>subsequent pressings beginning some time in 1993.
>
>
>I wonder whether some of the masters switched at that point, too.
That's part of my curiosity. I know the Thing-Fish switch is
supposedly identifiable by matrix numbers, but I wonder if there is
any correlation to the label, as well.
>The sampler that promoted that series ("You Can't Do That on the Radio")
>uses the "bad" version of "Be In my Video," which I previously thought
>originated in the Zappa Records catalogue, and didn't migrate over
>until the '95 issues.
Bad version of "Be In My Video"? Oh, great. Now I have to go and
compare the version on my "purple face" Them Or Us CD with the version
on "Clean American Version".
Spindles in Beat Pops
Espinoza) wrote:
>Bad version of "Be In My Video"? Oh, great. Now I have to go and
>compare the version on my "purple face" Them Or Us CD with the version
>on "Clean American Version".
Well, I should elaborate. Someone noted on the Zappa Patio a while
back that the current, stock version of Them or Us has some of the
same problems that the other "bad batch" items (Sheik, YAWYI, etc.)
has: volume fluctuations, a chewed up right channel, etc. These
problems are audible on my Ryko '95 disc, although they're not nearly
as bad as those on YAWYI.
The easiest one to note is the horribly-chewed right channel on
Whipping Post. "Be in My Video" is a bit vaguer, with little swells
here and there.
Now, I figure that the "bad" master made its debut on the 1990 Zappa
Records CD, as we have reports that the 1986 issue matches the vinyl
in content; presumably, that Zappa Records disc also includes the
extended title track, etc. Problematically, the "Be In My Video"
version on my 1993 "You Can't Do That on the Radio" FZ25 promo matches
the 1995 Them or Us CD, which implies that Rykodisc might have swapped
masters for some of the "upgraded" Zappa Records titles (maybe
including Apostrophe/Overnight Sensation? That one's reported to be
different on the Zappa Records CD) around that point.
This is, incidentally, one of the major issues I'd love to see
resolved.
-D
Mike Espinoza
I don't hear these problems on my Them Or Us disc (circa 1993/1994),
but I do hear the volume swells in "Be In My Video" on Clean American
Version (1995 sampler). That's weird.
>This is, incidentally, one of the major issues I'd love to see
>resolved.
I don't understand how or why it happened. Do you ever get the
feeling that the ZFT doesn't know what sounds better so the keep
changing masters to see if we will notice.
With this exception (and maybe Zappa In New York), have you noticed
that most of the "bad batch" items were "remastered in 1989" and
released in 1990. Weasels, Chunga, Fillmore, JABFLA, Zoot, and Sheik
(as well as the old Tinsel Town and YAWYI). I can listen to Weasels,
Fillmore and JABFLA just fine, but I can't bring myself to listen to
the Chunga or Sheik CDs (and I've never bought the Zoot CD). These
are the ones I wish they'd correct. (I wonder what was going on in
1989 anyway.)
And another thing: Does anyone actually own a Thing-Fish CD with the
vinyl mix on it (including the correct Prologue intro vamp and Wistful
Wit A Fistful vocals)? With or without the Watson "He's So Gay", I
have not heard a CD version of Thing-Fish that matches the vinyl.
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
vinyl mix on it (including the correct Prologue intro vamp and Wistful
Wit A Fistful vocals)? >>
My gray label Ryko copy, again purchased at time of initial issue,
does have the extra chord in the opening vamp, but does not have
"see de, see de zombie fly, yessir."
Mike Espinoza
Elephant Shrew) wrote:
><< And another thing: Does anyone actually own a Thing-Fish CD with the
>vinyl mix on it (including the correct Prologue intro vamp and Wistful
>Wit A Fistful vocals)? >>
>
>My gray label Ryko copy, again purchased at time of initial issue,
>does have the extra chord in the opening vamp, but does not have
>"see de, see de zombie fly, yessir."
"RYKO-10020 LAZ 67" ?
Charles Ulrich
"Ron Moses" <r...@mktrading.orgASM> wrote:
The disc-edge and the circle, which I would call silver, reflect light
very differently than the writing.
Or is that just a matter of ink vs. the actual surface of the disc?
--Charles
Spindles in Beat Pops
-D
Spindles in Beat Pops
Espinoza) wrote:
>I don't hear these problems on my Them Or Us disc (circa 1993/1994),
>but I do hear the volume swells in "Be In My Video" on Clean American
>Version (1995 sampler). That's weird.
Fascinating. Is your Them or Us mastered at a very low volume? The
1986 discs are, so if yours is, you know yours is a clone.
>
>With this exception (and maybe Zappa In New York),
Well, "this exception" might not be totally accurate, as Them or Us
*was* re-done for the Zappa Records disc in 1990, apparently, so SOME
remastering was done in 1989.
>
>And another thing: Does anyone actually own a Thing-Fish CD with the
>vinyl mix on it (including the correct Prologue intro vamp and Wistful
>Wit A Fistful vocals)? With or without the Watson "He's So Gay", I
>have not heard a CD version of Thing-Fish that matches the vinyl.
I have the EMI one, but I suppose that isn't what you mean.
-D
Mike Espinoza
<ksg...@yifan.nyet> wrote:
>By the way, Mike, did you get the Gary Kellgren thing I emailed you?
It would appear that I did not.
Mike Espinoza
Espinoza) wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:34:02 -0500, Spindles in Beat Pops
><ksg...@yifan.nyet> wrote:
>
>>By the way, Mike, did you get the Gary Kellgren thing I emailed you?
>
>It would appear that I did not.
Oops, spoke too soon. It was in the dlokazip inbox.
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
> On 29 Dec 2004 15:44:09 GMT, biffy...@aol.commie.rats (Biffy the
> Elephant Shrew) wrote:
>
> >My gray label Ryko copy, again purchased at time of initial issue,
> >does have the extra chord in the opening vamp, but does not have
> >"see de, see de zombie fly, yessir."
>
> "RYKO-10020 LAZ 67" ?
You mean the matrix? I don't see "LAZ 67" anywhere on my copy. The
full matrix details on disc one are:
CI05053 -0- 12345 12345 RCD 10020 818-PUMPKIN 10005 MANUFACTURED IN
U.S.A. BY LASERVIDEO INC
Disc two:
CI05054 -0- 12345 12345 RCD 10021 818-PUMPKIN 10003 MANUFACTURED IN
U.S.A. BY LASERVIDEO INC
Mike Espinoza
<biffy...@aol.com> wrote:
Thanks, Biffy.
And the Thing-Fish confusion continues...
Mike Espinoza
<ksg...@yifan.nyet> wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 07:21:46 GMT, espi...@yaREMOVETHIShoo.com (Mike
>Espinoza) wrote:
>
>
>>I don't hear these problems on my Them Or Us disc (circa 1993/1994),
>>but I do hear the volume swells in "Be In My Video" on Clean American
>>Version (1995 sampler). That's weird.
>
>Fascinating. Is your Them or Us mastered at a very low volume? The
>1986 discs are, so if yours is, you know yours is a clone.
Kinda low. Not as bad as my WOIIFTM/LG or (')/OS discs, but
definitely lower than my 1995 CDs.
>>
>>With this exception (and maybe Zappa In New York),
>
>Well, "this exception" might not be totally accurate, as Them or Us
>*was* re-done for the Zappa Records disc in 1990, apparently, so SOME
>remastering was done in 1989.
Well, that sucks.
Ironically, the 1995 CDs had already come out when I bought Them Or Us
(and Waka/Jawaka). Sound Warehouse (or was it Blockbuster Music by
that time) had those two titles from the old stock for a couple of
dollars less, so I decided to buy those versions instead of the new
ones.
>>And another thing: Does anyone actually own a Thing-Fish CD with the
>>vinyl mix on it (including the correct Prologue intro vamp and Wistful
>>Wit A Fistful vocals)? With or without the Watson "He's So Gay", I
>>have not heard a CD version of Thing-Fish that matches the vinyl.
>
>I have the EMI one, but I suppose that isn't what you mean.
Not exactly. Although the Zappa Patio page on Thing-Fish claims that
some of the CDs have the "vinyl mix" while other have a remix and that
there may be more than one remix.
I am starting to believe that *none* of the CDs use the vinyl mix. I
believe that there are three mixes:
1. Vinyl
2. First CD mix, almost identical to the vinyl mix, but with some
differences. ("Wistful Wit A Fist-Full" being one of them.)
3. Second CD mix. Identical to the first CD mix with a different
version of "He's So Gay", a different starting point for
"Harry-As-A-Boy" (Rhonda saying "Harry is that you..." as opposed to
Thing-Fish saying "Let's meet the little cocksucker..."), and the
first chord of "Prologue" chopped off. (May be other differences.
Who knows at this point.)
Unfortunately, all that I have to go on is a cassette tape with the
second half of the vinyl mix on it (the first half was erased
accidentally), a set of MP3s that I believe to be an early Ryko
version (the volume is VERY low), my 1995 CD, and my own feeble memory
of what the first half of the vinyl mix sounded like.
I guess I just like puzzles.
Spindles in Beat Pops
Espinoza) wrote:
>Well, that sucks.
>
Kinda. All I know is that some of the 1990 issue Zappa Records discs
are allegedly different (Apos/Overnight, Them or Us) but nobody seems
to *have* the bloody things (and/or also have the Ryko '86 issues), so
I'm not entirely sure what's going on. I'm also unsure whether or not
any of this mastering actually migrated over to the Ryko issues before
1995; for all I know, "Radio" is an exception.
>
>Not exactly. Although the Zappa Patio page on Thing-Fish claims that
>some of the CDs have the "vinyl mix" while other have a remix and that
>there may be more than one remix.
>
>I am starting to believe that *none* of the CDs use the vinyl mix.
I don't own the vinyl Thing-Fish--in fact, I've pledged to myself that
three copies is enough--but I'm pretty sure that the EMI uses the
vinyl mix. With the exception of MFU, all of the EMIs match their
vinyl counterparts, for the most part (and MFU differs by one song).
> I
>believe that there are three mixes:
>
>1. Vinyl
>2. First CD mix, almost identical to the vinyl mix, but with some
>differences. ("Wistful Wit A Fist-Full" being one of them.)
My EMI "Wistful" may or may not match the vinyl, but it's certainly
different from the '95 disc I have.
>3. Second CD mix. Identical to the first CD mix with a different
>version of "He's So Gay", a different starting point for
>"Harry-As-A-Boy" (Rhonda saying "Harry is that you..." as opposed to
>Thing-Fish saying "Let's meet the little cocksucker..."), and the
>first chord of "Prologue" chopped off. (May be other differences.
>Who knows at this point.)
Track indices don't necessarily signal a different mix. Also, the
prologue change isn't just an edit...it's a strange difference.
I think someone (JWB?) pointed out that the "remix" of He's So Gay is
actually the same mix with Watson's dialogue digitally inserted. I
have no idea if this is true.
>
>Unfortunately, all that I have to go on is a cassette tape with the
>second half of the vinyl mix on it (the first half was erased
>accidentally), a set of MP3s that I believe to be an early Ryko
>version (the volume is VERY low), my 1995 CD, and my own feeble memory
>of what the first half of the vinyl mix sounded like.
>
>I guess I just like puzzles.
I guess I do too, but I don't think many are particularly interested
in deciphering this one.
-D
Mike Espinoza
<ksg...@yifan.nyet> wrote:
>I guess I do too, but I don't think many are particularly interested
>in deciphering this one.
Oddly enough, I am.
I've always liked Thing-Fish. I'd be more than happy sort all of this
out if I weren't such a cheapskate. Not to mention the fact that
actually finding the older CD versions can be difficult and time
consuming.
Still, I almost feel it is my duty since I actually *like* the album.
Ultimately, I know I'll buy a vinyl copy to fetish and probably create
my own version taking my 1995 CD, substituting "He's So Gay" from Have
I Offended Someone, and adding "side breaks" where I don't like the
segues.
But I'd still like to know what the differences are.
William Hobbs
> With the exception of MFU, all of the EMIs match their
> vinyl counterparts, for the most part (and MFU differs by one song).