Frank vs. Santana
Tom Tuerff
playing abilities? I've always felt that the song title (Variations on the
Santana Chord Whatchamajigger or whatever it's called) must have been
sarcastic.
I find this weird because if there was ever anybody who could tie knots in
his guitar strings, it's Carlos Santana. Sure, he gets boring at times. So
did Frank. But sometimes he's amazing. And he likes to surround himself
with polyrhythmic drummers like Frank did.
So, as Theo Bikel would say, "vat's ze deal?"
TT
Jeff
wrote:
I don't know about Frank's opinion of Santana's guitar playing
abilities, but I could recount Alan Milman's opinion on the matter.
jeff
remove the obvious BURNTWEENIE pest strip to reply
http://www.users.cloud9.net/~jeff/stinko2.htm
Ingalls38
Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression" was an homage, not a sarcastic sneer.
Although Frank (especially in his later years) confessed to a limited knowledge
of popular music, he did have time in the Seventies to give credit where credit
was due. He has publicly praised Brian May, Jeff Beck and some others I can't
think of right now. Also, isn't "For Duane" a tip of the hat to Duane Allman?
Chris, who is thoroughly enjoying YCDTOSA Vol. 5 Disc Two on the headphones at
this moment (the 82 band can do no wrong)
Dan Watkins
> Although I'm not absolutely sure of this, I would guess that "Variations on the
> Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression" was an homage, not a sarcastic sneer.
> Although Frank (especially in his later years) confessed to a limited knowledge
> of popular music, he did have time in the Seventies to give credit where credit
> was due. He has publicly praised Brian May, Jeff Beck and some others I can't
> think of right now. Also, isn't "For Duane" a tip of the hat to Duane Allman?
I've heard Frank mention several times that he enjoyed Alan Holdsworth. For Duane
musta been a tribute. I hate Queen, but I like Brian May's playing. Would you say
that Frank liked Al DiMeola? Frank apparently thought he was a great Italian, and
he invited him on stage in '81.
> Chris, who is thoroughly enjoying YCDTOSA Vol. 5 Disc Two on the headphones at
> this moment (the 82 band can do no wrong)
Personally, I wasn't too crazy about that disc. I liked the '82 band's other
stuff. Ship Arriving Too Late is amazing!
-Dan
--
"There is no Hell... only France!" -FZ
Dan's Frank Zappa Page
http://members.xoom.com/The_Mothers
AOL Screen Name: madcow1515
ICQ Number: 30083560
Ingalls38
>at
>> this moment (the 82 band can do no wrong)
>
>Personally, I wasn't too crazy about that disc. I liked the '82 band's other
>stuff. Ship Arriving Too Late is amazing!
>
>-Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
While I'll admit that Vol. 5 Disc Two wasn't the 82 band's finest hour, you
have to admit that musically, there are some great moments there, particularly
the extended "City of Tiny Lites" and Ray White's vocals on the whole disc. My
only major complaint is the lack of humor on that disc. Maybe with Ike gone, it
wasn't as easy to egg Frank on. Anyone know if there was a particular reason
why Ike sat that one out?
Chris
Peter de B. Harrington
I'd love to change the world,
Pete
Dan Watkins <dan_w...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:374F0E8D...@hotmail.com...
> Ingalls38 wrote:
>
> > Although I'm not absolutely sure of this, I would guess that "Variations
on the
> > Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression" was an homage, not a sarcastic
sneer.
> > Although Frank (especially in his later years) confessed to a limited
knowledge
> > of popular music, he did have time in the Seventies to give credit where
credit
> > was due. He has publicly praised Brian May, Jeff Beck and some others I
can't
> > think of right now. Also, isn't "For Duane" a tip of the hat to Duane
Allman?
>
> I've heard Frank mention several times that he enjoyed Alan Holdsworth.
For Duane
> musta been a tribute. I hate Queen, but I like Brian May's playing.
Would you say
> that Frank liked Al DiMeola? Frank apparently thought he was a great
Italian, and
> he invited him on stage in '81.
>
> > Chris, who is thoroughly enjoying YCDTOSA Vol. 5 Disc Two on the
headphones at
> > this moment (the 82 band can do no wrong)
>
> Personally, I wasn't too crazy about that disc. I liked the '82 band's
other
> stuff. Ship Arriving Too Late is amazing!
>
> -Dan
Dan Watkins
> While I'll admit that Vol. 5 Disc Two wasn't the 82 band's finest hour, you
> have to admit that musically, there are some great moments there, particularly
> the extended "City of Tiny Lites" and Ray White's vocals on the whole disc. My
> only major complaint is the lack of humor on that disc. Maybe with Ike gone, it
> wasn't as easy to egg Frank on. Anyone know if there was a particular reason
> why Ike sat that one out?
>
> Chris
Ike wasn't in the '82 band was he? Wasn't he gone because of the hashish episode
with Tommy? Well, Tommy is there. Damn, I don't know. Either way, I love Ray's
vocals. I'd marry Ray if I thought he'd let me.
pbu...@surfnetcorp.com
Dan Watkins <dan_w...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ingalls38 wrote:
>
> > While I'll admit that Vol. 5 Disc Two wasn't the 82 band's finest hour, you
> > have to admit that musically, there are some great moments there, particularly
> > the extended "City of Tiny Lites" and Ray White's vocals on the whole disc. My
> > only major complaint is the lack of humor on that disc. Maybe with Ike gone, it
> > wasn't as easy to egg Frank on. Anyone know if there was a particular reason
> > why Ike sat that one out?
> >
> > Chris
>
> Ike wasn't in the '82 band was he? Wasn't he gone because of the hashish episode
> with Tommy? Well, Tommy is there. Damn, I don't know. Either way, I love Ray's
> vocals. I'd marry Ray if I thought he'd let me.
The story I heard is that Ike wasn't on the 81 and 82 tours because
he was starting to raise a family. The hash episode was in 78 during the
September mini-tour of Europe and is one possible explanation about why
Ike disappeared for a while towards the end of that year. (An e-mail pen
pal of mine spoke to Ike about this, and Ike claimed that this departure
was actually due to some ego/attitude problem he had at the time which
Gail and FZ spotted.)
Pat Buzby
Hyde Park, IL
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Patrick Neve
> Does anybody know what Frank's opinion was of Carlos Santana's guitar
> playing abilities? I've always felt that the song title (Variations on the
> Santana Chord Whatchamajigger or whatever it's called) must have been
> sarcastic.
I don't know what Frank's opinion of Carlos' playing was.. nor many other
guitarists for that matter, he certainly seemed to be rather hush about
most of his contempraries, possibly becauee he didn't hear them. But
while he most certainly had heard Carlos' playing at one time or another,
I don't think the Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression was either
sarcastic nor sincere.. it's just the old "Evil Ways" chord thing of Am-D.
Patrick Neve
> >> Chris, who is thoroughly enjoying YCDTOSA Vol. 5 Disc Two on the headphones
> >at
> >> this moment (the 82 band can do no wrong)
> >
> >Personally, I wasn't too crazy about that disc. I liked the '82 band's other
> >stuff. Ship Arriving Too Late is amazing!
> >
> >-Dan
>
> While I'll admit that Vol. 5 Disc Two wasn't the 82 band's finest hour, you
> have to admit that musically, there are some great moments there, particularly
> the extended "City of Tiny Lites" and Ray White's vocals on the whole disc. My
> only major complaint is the lack of humor on that disc. Maybe with Ike gone, it
> wasn't as easy to egg Frank on. Anyone know if there was a particular reason
> why Ike sat that one out?
Chop a line now.
I love that disc.
John
Ingalls38 wrote:
> Chris
According to everyone on this group, it was probably "Cocaine Decisions"
Arthur Barrow
>
> Does anybody know what Frank's opinion was of Carlos Santana's guitar
> playing abilities? I've always felt that the song title (Variations on the
> Santana Chord Whatchamajigger or whatever it's called) must have been
> sarcastic.
>
> his guitar strings, it's Carlos Santana. Sure, he gets boring at times. So
> did Frank. But sometimes he's amazing. And he likes to surround himself
> with polyrhythmic drummers like Frank did.
Now here is something I can shed some light on.
On one of the European tours, we shared billing with Santana in Germany,
in Koln, I think. They opened for us. I remember playing darts with
Carlos, who seemed like a pretty ok guy as far I could tell from a
backstage dart game. I am not exeactly sure about Frank's opinion of
Carlos' playing. I listened to Carlos play and I thought he sounded
good, very fluid, and I mentioned this to Frank, but I can't really
remember Framk's reaction. My guess is that Frank thought he was pretty
good, but not fabulous.
Now as far as the title I can claim some indirect credit for. Bob
McCready, a college chum of mine, made up the concept of the Carlos
Santana Secret Chord Progression. It was a joke, obviously, because
there isn't much of a secret to G minor to C Major over and over. On the
night of the show with Santana, after watching them for a while, I went
to Frank's dressing room and told how I had enjoyed Carlos' playing. I
also suggested that we do a little Santana parody, mentioning that my
buddies and I used to laugh about the Carlos Santana Secret Chord
Progression in college. Frank liked the idea, and inserted it in the
show that night, as I recall. Evidently, he liked doing it so much it
stayed in the show, and pretty much played from then on. (It is, after
all, a lot of fun to play over - it's basically the same progression as
the Inca Roads solo we love so much.)
Imagine my surprise and delight when I saw the title on the Guitar
album!
(Yet another credit oversight for old Arthur. I need to add a page to my
site full of all the screwed up credits! Like the Organ solo on If Only
She Woulda, or the fact that I am playing
second keyboard, not bass on the Drafted single now on the Son of Cheap
Thrills, or the guitar melody on Take your Clothes Off from CDTOSA vol
6, or the title of Yo Kats, or......)
But I'm not complaining, it was still great to be there. Frank had to
keep track of an awful lot. It's easy to miss stuff.
O yeh, and that was me doing the falling off the cliff scream at the end
of the Drafted single, and any time you hear that scream for that matter
- all part of my duties as "stunt vocalist".
Arthur
See my site:
Tom Tuerff
>
> Now here is something I can shed some light on.
And indeed you did! Thanks, Arthur!
Interesting side note--I had lunch one day with "The T-Shirt Guy" of "Jazz
Discharge" fame and he mentioned that on that particular gig with Santana
he asked Frank if he and Carlos were going to jam together and Frank said,
"No, when you do that it stops being entertainment and becomes a contest."
Or something like that. Does that sound like a typically "Frank"-style
attitude to you?
TT
Arthur Barrow
That sounds about right to me - pretty typical. He didn't really like
competition with other guitarists - I think he was intimidated by guys
like McLaughlin who could do that really fast double picking stuff.
He also probably was correct if he said it would become a contest.
Arthur
It Never Entered My Mind
wrote:
>That sounds about right to me - pretty typical. He didn't really like
>competition with other guitarists - I think he was intimidated by guys
>like McLaughlin who could do that really fast double picking stuff.
The up 'n' down fast-pickin' style was a technique that biologically
speaking, wasn't in Zappa.
That's why Vai entered the picture, for example.
To each their own.
Echidna
> Now here is something I can shed some light on.
>
> On one of the European tours, we shared billing with Santana in Germany,
> in Koln, I think. They opened for us. I remember playing darts with
> Carlos, who seemed like a pretty ok guy as far I could tell from a
> backstage dart game. I am not exeactly sure about Frank's opinion of
> Carlos' playing. I listened to Carlos play and I thought he sounded
> good, very fluid, and I mentioned this to Frank, but I can't really
> remember Framk's reaction. My guess is that Frank thought he was pretty
> good, but not fabulous.
>
> Now as far as the title I can claim some indirect credit for. Bob
> McCready, a college chum of mine, made up the concept of the Carlos
> Santana Secret Chord Progression. It was a joke, obviously, because
> there isn't much of a secret to G minor to C Major over and over. On the
> night of the show with Santana, after watching them for a while, I went
> to Frank's dressing room and told how I had enjoyed Carlos' playing. I
> also suggested that we do a little Santana parody, mentioning that my
> buddies and I used to laugh about the Carlos Santana Secret Chord
> Progression in college. Frank liked the idea, and inserted it in the
> show that night, as I recall. Evidently, he liked doing it so much it
> stayed in the show, and pretty much played from then on. (It is, after
> all, a lot of fun to play over - it's basically the same progression as
> the Inca Roads solo we love so much.)
>
> Imagine my surprise and delight when I saw the title on the Guitar
> album!
You see, Chris. This is the kind of thing that will keep you coming
back over and over. Another nugget.
Thanks, Arthur.
--
Michael
"Open up your pocketbook/ Get another quarter out/ Drop it in the meter,
momma/ Would you like some fries?"
(to reply in e-mail, remove x)
Ingalls38
>Discharge" fame and he mentioned that on that particular gig with Santana
>he asked Frank if he and Carlos were going to jam together and Frank said,
>"No, when you do that it stops being entertainment and becomes a contest."
>Or something like that. Does that sound like a typically "Frank"-style
>attitude to you?
>
Vai?
Chris
Kristian Kier
wrote:
>O yeh, and that was me doing the falling off the cliff scream at the end
>of the Drafted single, and any time you hear that scream for that matter
>- all part of my duties as "stunt vocalist".
Oh, actually many people here are able to *see* you scream. (Hint:
Munich, Germany, in a lift/elevator...)
-Kristian
Ray
news:3750891b...@news.total.net...
> On 29 May 1999 19:22:06 -0500, Arthur Barrow <big...@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>
> >That sounds about right to me - pretty typical. He didn't really like
> >competition with other guitarists - I think he was intimidated by guys
> >like McLaughlin who could do that really fast double picking stuff.
>
> The up 'n' down fast-pickin' style was a technique that biologically
> speaking, wasn't in Zappa.
>
> That's why Vai entered the picture, for example.
>
> To each their own.
>
>
up 'n' down fast-pickin' style"? I'm trying to understand your viewpoint on
this.
--
Regards,
Ray
Miggy is a pig. --Zoogz Rift <The Liquid Moamo>
Ray
It Never Entered My Mind <o...@stockholm.com> wrote in message
news:3754fb0a...@news.total.net...
> On Sun, 30 May 1999 17:40:14 -0500, "Ray" <srs...@arn.net> wrote:
>
> > >That sounds about right to me - pretty typical. He didn't really like
> >> >competition with other guitarists - I think he was intimidated by guys
> >> >like McLaughlin who could do that really fast double picking stuff.
> >>
> >> The up 'n' down fast-pickin' style was a technique that biologically
> >> speaking, wasn't in Zappa.
> >>
> >> That's why Vai entered the picture, for example.
> >>
> >> To each their own.
> >>
> >>
> >Miggy could you please enlighten me as to what biology has to do with
"The
> >up 'n' down fast-pickin' style"? I'm trying to understand your viewpoint
on
> >this.
>
> It had to so with the GIT fad of the 80's....speed was everything,
> for a moment there in the industry. GIT=Guitar Institute of
> Technology.
>
> Zappa's closest attempt to fast pick in an Ynwgie Malmsteen style
> was on the solo, present on the number entitled Sharelena, on the
> THEM OR US album.
>
> Other than that, the stunt guitar stuff was left to others, namely
> Warren Cuccurrulo (to get all the right notes in there), to Belew
> (to allow Zappa to sing, since he couldn't do singing and playing
> simultaneously), or Steve Vai, the latter supposedly to affirm
> Zappa's seniority in the industry and business. Zappa said that at
> his age, with his status, he didn't have to play the guitar licks
> that teenagers guitar amateurs could play ... this happened a lot
> of the time in his songs. So Zappa dedicated himself to the
> challenging moments...making each concert special... finding
> something that was give ya a kick 'n' da ass....
There may be something to argue with you about in there, but I didn't find
it. Glad I asked for a clarification.
It Never Entered My Mind
Magnus Karlsson
> Zappa's closest attempt to fast pick in an Ynwgie Malmsteen style
> was on the solo, present on the number entitled Sharelena, on the
> THEM OR US album.
That's Dweezil Zappa, not Frank.
/Magnus
Michael Pierry
Ray wrote:
>
> It Never Entered My Mind <o...@stockholm.com> wrote in message
> news:3754fb0a...@news.total.net...
> >
> > It had to so with the GIT fad of the 80's....speed was everything,
> > for a moment there in the industry. GIT=Guitar Institute of
> > Technology.
> >
> > Zappa's closest attempt to fast pick in an Ynwgie Malmsteen style
> > was on the solo, present on the number entitled Sharelena, on the
> > THEM OR US album.
> >
> > Other than that, the stunt guitar stuff was left to others, namely
> > Warren Cuccurrulo (to get all the right notes in there), to Belew
> > (to allow Zappa to sing, since he couldn't do singing and playing
> > simultaneously), or Steve Vai, the latter supposedly to affirm
> > Zappa's seniority in the industry and business. Zappa said that at
> > his age, with his status, he didn't have to play the guitar licks
> > that teenagers guitar amateurs could play ... this happened a lot
> > of the time in his songs. So Zappa dedicated himself to the
> > challenging moments...making each concert special... finding
> > something that was give ya a kick 'n' da ass....
>
> There may be something to argue with you about in there, but I didn't find
> it. Glad I asked for a clarification.
>
Dweezil played the guitar solo on "Sharleena."
Tal
>
>Zappa's closest attempt to fast pick in an Ynwgie Malmsteen style
>was on the solo, present on the number entitled Sharelena, on the
>THEM OR US album.
That was Dweezil, you nitwit.
And that's not in an Yngwie-style.
-Tal
Ray
news:37526771...@home.com...
>
>
> Ray wrote:
> >
> > It Never Entered My Mind <o...@stockholm.com> wrote in message
> > news:3754fb0a...@news.total.net...
> > >
> > > It had to so with the GIT fad of the 80's....speed was everything,
> > > for a moment there in the industry. GIT=Guitar Institute of
> > > Technology.
> > >
> > > was on the solo, present on the number entitled Sharelena, on the
> > > THEM OR US album.
> > >
> > > Warren Cuccurrulo (to get all the right notes in there), to Belew
> > > (to allow Zappa to sing, since he couldn't do singing and playing
> > > simultaneously), or Steve Vai, the latter supposedly to affirm
> > > Zappa's seniority in the industry and business. Zappa said that at
> > > his age, with his status, he didn't have to play the guitar licks
> > > that teenagers guitar amateurs could play ... this happened a lot
> > > of the time in his songs. So Zappa dedicated himself to the
> > > challenging moments...making each concert special... finding
> > > something that was give ya a kick 'n' da ass....
> >
> > There may be something to argue with you about in there, but I didn't
find
> > it. Glad I asked for a clarification.
> >
>
> Dweezil played the guitar solo on "Sharleena."
Thanks Michael, I was really zonked when I read that.
Bill
Magnus Karlsson wrote:
>
> It Never Entered My Mind wrote:
>
> > Zappa's closest attempt to fast pick in an Ynwgie Malmsteen style
> > was on the solo, present on the number entitled Sharelena, on the
> > THEM OR US album.
>
> That's Dweezil Zappa, not Frank.
>
> /Magnus
Does this support the genetic argument?
;^)
It Never Entered My Mind
<magn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Zappa's closest attempt to fast pick in an Ynwgie Malmsteen style
>> was on the solo, present on the number entitled Sharelena, on the
>> THEM OR US album.
>
>That's Dweezil Zappa, not Frank.
Well, both Son and Dad have a go at it, I mean, the song.
Arthur Barrow
>
> On 28 May 1999 19:44:03 -0500, Arthur Barrow <big...@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>
> >O yeh, and that was me doing the falling off the cliff scream at the end
> >of the Drafted single, and any time you hear that scream for that matter
> >- all part of my duties as "stunt vocalist".
>
> Oh, actually many people here are able to *see* you scream. (Hint:
> Munich, Germany, in a lift/elevator...)
>
> -Kristian
That's right - you saw right - and the secret word for tonight is "Duty"
- or is it "Doody"
AB
Arthur Barrow
> > Imagine my surprise and delight when I saw the title on the Guitar
> > album!
>
> You see, Chris. This is the kind of thing that will keep you coming
> back over and over. Another nugget.
>
> Thanks, Arthur.
>
You are more than welcome - it's my Playsure, as Mars would say.
ArThUr
Kristian Kier
wrote:
>Kristian Kier wrote:
>>
>> On 28 May 1999 19:44:03 -0500, Arthur Barrow <big...@ix.netcom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >O yeh, and that was me doing the falling off the cliff scream at the end
>> >of the Drafted single, and any time you hear that scream for that matter
>> >- all part of my duties as "stunt vocalist".
>>
>> Oh, actually many people here are able to *see* you scream. (Hint:
>> Munich, Germany, in a lift/elevator...)
>
>That's right - you saw right - and the secret word for tonight is "Duty"
>- or is it "Doody"
Can you tell us why Frank choosed Germany for the rehearsals of that
tour? IIRC the tv recording was somewhat 2 month before the first
concert in front of an audience.
How long did the rehearsals last?
You had much spare time? If so, what did you do?
What´s the funniest rememberance of Germany?
What´s the ugliest?
If you know the video, what else have you played? Anything else
bavarian tv hasn´t shown us?
-Kristian
Arthur Barrow
> tour? IIRC the tv recording was somewhat 2 month before the first
> concert in front of an audience.
>
> How long did the rehearsals last?
>
> You had much spare time? If so, what did you do?
>
> What´s the funniest rememberance of Germany?
>
> What´s the ugliest?
>
> If you know the video, what else have you played? Anything else
> bavarian tv hasn´t shown us?
>
> -Kristian
We had rehearsed in LA for about 6 weeks (I think), then Frank suddenly
got some oppurtunities to play the festivals in Europe before the
regular US tour. We cut the rehearsals short and went to London first,
where we rehearsed for a few days, perhaps, then did a couple of the
festivals, then had some time off in Munich. I think we were in the
Circus Krona for only a week or so. There was no 2 month gap that I
recall. Perhaps someone out there has an itinerary that could clear that
up.
In spare time, I learned Mo's Vacation, walked around the city and
sometimes went out to clubs at night - the usual.
Funniest remembrance - maybe watching Denny Wally take a photo of Zappa
sniffing Joan Baez's armpit.
Ugliest - the tatooed and pierced skinheads I saw in Koln last time I
was there. As Bruce Fowler commented - "A commitment to nothing."
I performed bass, keyboards, guitar and vocal duties.
Arthur
Jon Naurin
>We had rehearsed in LA for about 6 weeks (I think), then Frank suddenly
>got some oppurtunities to play the festivals in Europe before the
>regular US tour. We cut the rehearsals short and went to London first,
>where we rehearsed for a few days, perhaps, then did a couple of the
>festivals, then had some time off in Munich. I think we were in the
>Circus Krona for only a week or so. There was no 2 month gap that I
>recall. Perhaps someone out there has an itinerary that could clear that
>up.
The 2 month gap is a misunderstanding, stemming from a bootleg (At The Circus)
which claims that the Cirkus Krone rehearsals were in July. I'm not sure
about the correct date, but my guess is the last days of August - first days
of September. The first couple of festivals you mention were in Ulm (Aug 26)
and Stuttgart (late Aug), then after the little break in Munich, there were
concerts in Sweden, Germany and England.
The great Berlin show, where the bill was shared with Peter Gabriel, Brand X
and Mahavishnu Orchestra led to Frank's first contact with Shankar.
- Jon
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
To reply, swap "swop" for "swip" in my address.
Check out the Zappa concert database FZShows at:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~prem/fzshows.htm
Patrick Neve
> The great Berlin show, where the bill was shared with Peter Gabriel, Brand X
> and Mahavishnu Orchestra led to Frank's first contact with Shankar.
Was that 9/7/78?
Jon Naurin
>Was that 9/7/78?
Yup.
Robert Burz
Tal wrote:
you nitwit.
LOL! It's good to see that you've been studying Americano slang to it's
fullest glory.
Bill
Jon Naurin wrote:
>
> Patrick Neve writes:
>
> >On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Jon Naurin wrote:
> >> The great Berlin show, where the bill was shared with Peter Gabriel, Brand X
> >> and Mahavishnu Orchestra led to Frank's first contact with Shankar.
>
> >Was that 9/7/78?
>
> Yup.
>
> - Jon
I'm confused. The Mahavishnu Orchestra did not exist in 1978.
Was this The One Truth Band with McLaughlin and Shankar?
Jon Naurin
A friend of mine, who's usually very good with facts, wrote me this:
> The concert in Berlin from 07.09.78 was planned as an open air festival at
> the Waldbühne, but then transfered to the Deutschlandhalle.It was a festival
> with opener Peter Gabriel, then Brand X, John McLaughlin & The Mahavishnu
> Orchestra and as the Headliner Zappa. It was the first time, that L.Shankar
> appeared on stage with Zappa. He was in the Band with John McLaughlin at
> that time together with Ralph Armstrong and Stu Goldberg on drums. Zappa was
> standing on the side of the stage when John McLaughlin was playing, watching
> the band.
Bill
Jon Naurin wrote:
>
> Bill writes:
>
> >Jon Naurin wrote:
> >>
> >> Patrick Neve writes:
> >>
> >> >On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Jon Naurin wrote:
> >> >> The great Berlin show, where the bill was shared with Peter Gabriel, Brand
> >X
> >> >> and Mahavishnu Orchestra led to Frank's first contact with Shankar.
> >>
> >> >Was that 9/7/78?
> >>
> >> Yup.
> >>
> >> - Jon
>
> >I'm confused. The Mahavishnu Orchestra did not exist in 1978.
> >Was this The One Truth Band with McLaughlin and Shankar?
>
> A friend of mine, who's usually very good with facts, wrote me this:
>
> > The concert in Berlin from 07.09.78 was planned as an open air festival at
> > the Waldbühne, but then transfered to the Deutschlandhalle.It was a festival
> > with opener Peter Gabriel, then Brand X, John McLaughlin & The Mahavishnu
> > Orchestra and as the Headliner Zappa. It was the first time, that L.Shankar
> > appeared on stage with Zappa. He was in the Band with John McLaughlin at
> > that time together with Ralph Armstrong and Stu Goldberg on drums. Zappa was
> > standing on the side of the stage when John McLaughlin was playing, watching
> > the band.
>
> - Jon
>
It's the One Truth Band, unless the promoter changed their name for them.
BTW, Goldberg is/was a keyboard player.
In looking up Stu's name on the www, I found mention of a band
that I wish had made a few recordings (from 1979) :
John McLaughlin
Jack Bruce
Billy Cobham
Stu Goldberg
http://www.jackbruce.com/tours2.htm
Arthur Barrow
>
>
>
> The 2 month gap is a misunderstanding, stemming from a bootleg (At The Circus)
> which claims that the Cirkus Krone rehearsals were in July. I'm not sure
> about the correct date, but my guess is the last days of August - first days
> of September. The first couple of festivals you mention were in Ulm (Aug 26)
> and Stuttgart (late Aug), then after the little break in Munich, there were
> concerts in Sweden, Germany and England.
> and Mahavishnu Orchestra led to Frank's first contact with Shankar.
>
Thanks, that sounds about right, except I think you are mistaken about
the Shankar meeting. It was in Saarbrucken, September 3, 1978, and it
was The One Truth Band. I remember watching them before we played and I
was totally blown away by Shankar. I went to Frank's room and told him
how great Shankar was and that Frank ought to hear him. I think Ed Mann
already had met Shankar, and soon after One Truth finished their set
Shankar was in Frank's dressing room.
Also on the bill that day were Genesis, Alvin Lee, Scorpions, Brand X,
and Joan Baez. It was also the most people we ever performed for while I
was in the band - about 70,000. And no sound check - I went out there
and my amp didn't work! Nice!
Arthur
Jon Naurin
>Jon Naurin wrote:
>
>> The great Berlin show, where the bill was shared with Peter Gabriel, Brand X
>> and Mahavishnu Orchestra led to Frank's first contact with Shankar.
>
>Thanks, that sounds about right, except I think you are mistaken about
>the Shankar meeting. It was in Saarbrucken, September 3, 1978, and it
>was The One Truth Band. I remember watching them before we played and I
>was totally blown away by Shankar. I went to Frank's room and told him
>how great Shankar was and that Frank ought to hear him. I think Ed Mann
>already had met Shankar, and soon after One Truth finished their set
>Shankar was in Frank's dressing room.
Did Shankar play with you onstage in Saarbrücken? Not on the "Saarbrücken '78"
bootleg, but I'm not sure that's the complete concert. In Berlin, four days
later, he joined you for a great Conehead jam.
Joey123b
the Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression"
CD "That Ol' G Minor Thing Again" is a similar song which he is definately
mocking santana's
continual beating of the same riff's to death. Just listen to the last 3 min.
of this song and its pretty
obvious the point he is tryin to get across. This song acording to the CD was
recorded in 1982.
"For Duane" was recorded in Atlanta Ga. perhaps
whomever compiled the CD misnamed that track
because if it was a tune to pay homage to one of the greatest guitarists ever,
it is a terrible attempt
at doing so !! (If it was correct I guess something is better than nothing ). I
haven't listened to all of
F.Z's music but if he wanted to bring attention to
a group that beats to death the same ol riffs over & over & over again he
should have ripped the Rolling Stones !!! (They've sucked since 1980 ! )
Joey
>Ingalls38 wrote:
>
>> Although I'm not absolutely sure of this, I would guess that "Variations on
>the
>> Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression" was an homage, not a sarcastic
>sneer.
>> Although Frank (especially in his later years) confessed to a limited
>knowledge
>> of popular music, he did have time in the Seventies to give credit where
>credit
>> was due. He has publicly praised Brian May, Jeff Beck and some others I
>can't
>> think of right now. Also, isn't "For Duane" a tip of the hat to Duane
>Allman?
>
>I've heard Frank mention several times that he enjoyed Alan Holdsworth. For
>Duane
>musta been a tribute.
>
Michael Pierry
Joey123b wrote:
>
> From the liner notes of the CD "Variations on
> the Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression"
> was recorded in 1980 if U have the F.Z. "Guitar"
> CD "That Ol' G Minor Thing Again" is a similar song which he is definately
> mocking santana's
> continual beating of the same riff's to death.
It's the same song. FZ used that vamp to solo over in the middle of a
song called "City of Tiny Lites," which has vocals and everything. The
Guitar album consists almost entirely of the extracted guitar solo
sections of live performances of pre-existing Zappa compositions, which
here these solos have been given their own separate cute little names,
so you don't have to refer to them rather generically as, "City of Tiny
Lites Solo From Zurich in June '82" etc.
Just listen to the last 3 min.
> of this song and its pretty
> obvious the point he is tryin to get across. This song acording to the CD was
> recorded in 1982.
He's fucking around with samples and stuff. He's experimenting. He's
not doing a five-minute parody of Carlos Santana. Wipe that idea from
your mind. You need to dig a lot deeper with FZ's music. When he was
playing the guitar he was in the midst of attempting to do some serious
composing, for the most part.
> "For Duane" was recorded in Atlanta Ga. perhaps
> whomever compiled the CD misnamed that track
If you'll take a look at the liner notes (reading is GOOD, very VERY
good) you'll see that the compiler in question was one Frank Zappa, who
was very much alive in 1988 and not in the business of letting other
people compile his albums for him.
> because if it was a tune to pay homage to one of the greatest guitarists ever,
> it is a terrible attempt
> at doing so !! (If it was correct I guess something is better than nothing ).
That's your opinion. Perhaps it would help to understand that Frank
preferred to solo over repetitive vamps with a very static harmonic
environment (i.e. little or no chord changes) because that was what he
felt comfortable playing over. Try focusing on FZ's solo lines, rather
than the riff that repeats over and over.
Kristian Kier
wrote:
>It's the One Truth Band, unless the promoter changed their name for them.
>BTW, Goldberg is/was a keyboard player.
>In looking up Stu's name on the www, I found mention of a band
>that I wish had made a few recordings (from 1979) :
>John McLaughlin
>Jack Bruce
>Billy Cobham
>Stu Goldberg
>http://www.jackbruce.com/tours2.htm
There was a Rockpalast concert of Jack Bruce and Friends, with Billy
Cobham, Clem Clempson and David Sancious on guitar. 18.10.80.
-Kristian.
Arthur Barrow
> Did Shankar play with you onstage in Saarbrücken? Not on the "Saarbrücken '78"
> bootleg, but I'm not sure that's the complete concert. In Berlin, four days
> later, he joined you for a great Conehead jam.
>
> - Jon
>
Nope, not that I recall.
AB
Kristian Kier
wrote:
>> Can you tell us why Frank choosed Germany for the rehearsals of that
>> tour? IIRC the tv recording was somewhat 2 month before the first
>> concert in front of an audience.
>>
>> How long did the rehearsals last?
>>
>> You had much spare time? If so, what did you do?
>>
>> What´s the funniest rememberance of Germany?
>>
>> What´s the ugliest?
>>
>> If you know the video, what else have you played? Anything else
>> bavarian tv hasn´t shown us?
>>
>> -Kristian
>
>
>We had rehearsed in LA for about 6 weeks (I think), then Frank suddenly
>got some oppurtunities to play the festivals in Europe before the
>regular US tour. We cut the rehearsals short and went to London first,
>where we rehearsed for a few days, perhaps, then did a couple of the
>festivals, then had some time off in Munich. I think we were in the
>Circus Krona for only a week or so. There was no 2 month gap that I
>recall. Perhaps someone out there has an itinerary that could clear that
>up.
>
>In spare time, I learned Mo's Vacation, walked around the city and
>sometimes went out to clubs at night - the usual.
How boring... 8-)
>Funniest remembrance - maybe watching Denny Wally take a photo of Zappa
>sniffing Joan Baez's armpit.
And? Did it knock off his socks? What was the event behind this?
>Ugliest - the tatooed and pierced skinheads I saw in Koln last time I
>was there. As Bruce Fowler commented - "A commitment to nothing."
I think that was during the Band from Utopia tour in 1994, right? I
don´t know what your understanding about a "skinhead" is. Here
skinheads are people with shaved heads, politically extremely right
wing, and not knowing they were used by morons who adore the third
reich. They have some kind of "uniform", Doc Martens, Jeans, and green
bomber jackets.
But I will not revile all shaved... maybe it was a piercing freak?
>I performed bass, keyboards, guitar and vocal duties.
I was more thinking about what songs you played other than the
material shown on tv. I think the tv recording was during one single
day, and I would like to know what we do miss till now from that
particular day.
-Kristian
NW: Mick Taylor Band tv concert
Arthur Barrow
> >Funniest remembrance - maybe watching Denny Wally take a photo of Zappa
> >sniffing Joan Baez's armpit.
> And? Did it knock off his socks? What was the event behind this?
No socks knocked that I saw. Photo op for Denny.
> >Ugliest - the tatooed and pierced skinheads I saw in Koln last time I
> >was there. As Bruce Fowler commented - "A commitment to nothing."
>
> I think that was during the Band from Utopia tour in 1994, right? I
> don´t know what your understanding about a "skinhead" is. Here
> skinheads are people with shaved heads, politically extremely right
> wing, and not knowing they were used by morons who adore the third
> reich. They have some kind of "uniform", Doc Martens, Jeans, and green
> bomber jackets.
Yep, those are the ones.
> >I performed bass, keyboards, guitar and vocal duties.
>
> I was more thinking about what songs you played other than the
> material shown on tv. I think the tv recording was during one single
> day, and I would like to know what we do miss till now from that
> particular day.
Maybe Mo's Vacation a bit. Is that in the video? I can't recall. But
probably just the stuff that would be heard later live.
Arthur Barrow