Ice Pick in the forehead / post-modernism on Joe's Garage
computeruser
I understand one aspect of post-modernism to be self reference, as in making
reference that you are in a recording studio recording a record, while being
in a recording studio recording a record. Frank Zappa does this with Dale
Bozzio in "Wet t-shirt night" on Joe's Garage and later on this same album
during Green Rosetta. I find it especially curious in Green Rosetta when it
occurs Zappa mentions the "Japanese Sandman" which if you've heard it also
has a moment of post-modernistic bubble bursting, that is it reveals the
fact that their are actually people in the recording studio tape recording
the song.
Apparently this practice is widely frowned upon. I suppose record company
and movie studio executive type expect us all to believe that the fantasy,
of a movie or audio recording is real.
Another example of this revealing the studio took place in some of the "Road
to " Bing Crosby and Bob Hope movies. I been told that these "Road to.. "
references were the first to burst the fantasy bubble.
I find the Ice Pick in the forehead to be the most graphic, sanctioning of
violence toward women in the Zappa lexicon. And I wonder if Zappa was
referring to a Frontal Lobotomy, for young Mary. Or was he saying that
anyone who would enter a Wet t-shirt contest must be dumb and therefore
wouldn't notice an Ice pick to the forehead.
comments?
computeruser
Bappy Lorenzo
computeruser wrote:
I'm just thinking Slapstick knows no gender with Zappa. but hey,
whatareyagonnado?
Steve Cobham
wrote:
>Disclaimer note the ala Ben Watson tone of this post:
>
>I understand one aspect of post-modernism to be self reference, as in making
>reference that you are in a recording studio recording a record, while being
>in a recording studio recording a record. Frank Zappa does this with Dale
>Bozzio in "Wet t-shirt night" on Joe's Garage and later on this same album
>during Green Rosetta. I find it especially curious in Green Rosetta when it
>occurs Zappa mentions the "Japanese Sandman" which if you've heard it also
>has a moment of post-modernistic bubble bursting, that is it reveals the
>fact that their are actually people in the recording studio tape recording
>the song.
What about the creepy whispering by Gary Kellgren on WOIIFTM?
>
>Apparently this practice is widely frowned upon. I suppose record company
>and movie studio executive type expect us all to believe that the fantasy,
>of a movie or audio recording is real.
But surely, in very many instances, that's what the whole deal is
about - "the willing suspension of disbelief", as Samuel Taylor
Coleridge put it last century.
If I go and see something like a Star Wars film and there are
continual reminders that all the events on the screen are just
pretend, how enjoyable is the experience going to be? Where's the harm
in immersing yourself in a total fantasy for a couple of hours?
If I hear an album by a three piece band and the guitarist overdubbed
a solo so it sounds like there are four people playing, what's the
problem?
Then again, I can appreciate cinema or music verité, where you can see
the lack of technical smoothness, but you get a realistic and
immediate experience.
What about those works that tried to suck in the consumer but had very
low production values? FZ's beloved monster movies where you can see
the fakery because it's so poorly done, for example. Even those were
capable of sucking people into the action. Of course, nowadays, we are
so much more sophisticated and we can discriminate between good and
shoddy special effects.
However, even some of these movies still have a certain capacity to
make the watcher believe, temporarily, in what he sees. There's a b&w
SF film from the 50s with aliens looking like brains with spines
attached that really spooked me when I first saw it. The fact that the
production values were more than low didn't stop the film having a
chilling effect.
Anyway, there's an intent behind the production and neither the
glossy, simple or inept approach is used to document a real life
experience.
>Another example of this revealing the studio took place in some of the "Road
>to " Bing Crosby and Bob Hope movies. I been told that these "Road to.. "
>references were the first to burst the fantasy bubble.
Isn't there a Chaplin or Keaton silent movie where the camera pans
away to show the whole set and a film crew at work filming it?
>I find the Ice Pick in the forehead to be the most graphic, sanctioning of
>violence toward women in the Zappa lexicon. And I wonder if Zappa was
>referring to a Frontal Lobotomy, for young Mary. Or was he saying that
>anyone who would enter a Wet t-shirt contest must be dumb and therefore
>wouldn't notice an Ice pick to the forehead.
Perhaps FZ was referring to the way that Trotsky met his end.
Or was it just a funny remark that had nothing to do with the gender
of the victim?
Although FZ's work is so complex and operates on so many levels and
readily lends itself to analysis, isn't there a danger of reading too
much into everything?
Even Frank had his lighter, playful moments.
Steve.
================================================
Guitar and bass tuition - all styles and levels.
http://users.powernet.co.uk/guitars/tuition.htm
E-mail: st...@XSPAMXguitarsXMAPSX.powernet.co.uk
(Please remove obvious spam deterrent)
Interested in Zappa? Guitar? Beer?
Save money by setting up your own guitar!
How about trading Zappa and Danny Gatton tapes?
http://users.powernet.co.uk/guitars/
Heb de Latz und schpill dini Gitare.
================================================
John Henley
<RoyC...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> Another example of this revealing the studio took place in some of the "Road
> to " Bing Crosby and Bob Hope movies. I been told that these "Road to.. "
> references were the first to burst the fantasy bubble.
>
If you mean simply "bursting the bubble," then the
Road movies are pre-dated by the Marx Brothers'
"Horse Feathers" of 1932, in which, as Chico begins
his piano specialty, Groucho walks right up to the
camera and says: "I _have_ to stay here, but there's
no reason you folks shouldn't go to the lobby for a
smoke until this thing blows over."
If you mean revealing the studio workings as part
of the film, the earliest example I can think of
(which is probably not the earliest example period)
is an Eddie Cantor movie from 1937 called "Ali Baba
Goes to Town," in which the melee at the end breaks
down a wall and allows the fight to spill into the
adjoining sets, where other films are being shot.
Mel Brooks stole this idea for the climax of "Blazing
Saddles" in 1973.
John Henley
Austin TX
John Henley
st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
> Isn't there a Chaplin or Keaton silent movie where the camera pans
> away to show the whole set and a film crew at work filming it?
I can't think of any, but you may be thinking of
Keaton's "Sherlock Jr." in which a film projectionist
falls asleep and dreams himself into the movie showing
on the screen - which then starts to spontaneously
alter itself. This was a pretty audacious thing for
its year, 1924. The basic idea was later used by the
Warner Bros. Termite Terrace crew for such cartoons as
"You Ought to Be in Pictures" and "Duck Amuck."
But most likely, this did happen first in a silent
film, and as about 88% of them are lost (or otherwise
hard to get to), any answer to this question is just
as apt to be wrong as right.
John Henley
Austin TX
Steve Cobham
Henley) wrote:
>In article <OYWJ1kYM$GA.260@cpmsnbbsa03>, "computeruser"
><RoyC...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Another example of this revealing the studio took place in some of the "Road
>> to " Bing Crosby and Bob Hope movies. I been told that these "Road to.. "
>> references were the first to burst the fantasy bubble.
>>
>
>If you mean simply "bursting the bubble," then the
>Road movies are pre-dated by the Marx Brothers'
>"Horse Feathers" of 1932, in which, as Chico begins
>his piano specialty, Groucho walks right up to the
>camera and says: "I _have_ to stay here, but there's
>no reason you folks shouldn't go to the lobby for a
>smoke until this thing blows over."
Groucho Marx - possibly the funniest guy who ever lived, possibly
not.......
There are plenty of instances in Shakespeare where remarks - asides -
are addressed to the audience, which acknowledge their presence, and,
by doing so, bring them in as part of the unfolding drama to a certain
extent.
Some of the Ancient Greek comedies and tragedies employ this device
also.
Much drama - chiefly tragedy - hinges on the fact that the audience
knows *exactly* what fate is going to befall the "hero" and the inner
flaws which hasten it.
You could, of course, say that the very fact that a play is written
for an audience ensures that the audience is always part of the play,
but some examples integrate the audience more than others.
I've just thought, had "Thingfish" ever gotten onto the stage then
that would have been a play within a play with the "audience" becoming
the protagonists.
Just had to get back on topic there.........
Steve Cobham
Henley) wrote:
>In article <4tAzOI1HWrxyid...@4ax.com>,
>st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
>
>> Isn't there a Chaplin or Keaton silent movie where the camera pans
>> away to show the whole set and a film crew at work filming it?
>
>I can't think of any, but you may be thinking of
>Keaton's "Sherlock Jr." in which a film projectionist
>falls asleep and dreams himself into the movie showing
>on the screen
I think that's probably what I had in mind.
Interesting that you mention cartoons as well using similar ideas.
Surely cartoons are the ultimate in the suspension of disbelief
required to enable things like plays and movies to work.
You see people and animals doing really impossible things - Wile E.
Coyote dropping 500 feet off a precipice and then a moment later
unwrapping another Acme Co. package.
Yet who ever questions the implausibility of the situation?
Lewis Saul
>violence toward women in the Zappa lexicon. And I wonder if Zappa was
>referring to a Frontal Lobotomy, for young Mary. Or was he saying that
>anyone who would enter a Wet t-shirt contest must be dumb and therefore
>wouldn't notice an Ice pick to the forehead.
>
>
Yeah, hang on a second here. The "ice pick in the forehead" remark is just
FZ commenting on Dale Bozzio's laugh when the water is thrown on her and she
screams...how is that sanctioning violence against women???
**
[Dale laughs/squeaks]:
"No, you'd squeak more if the water got on ya -- sounds like you just an ice
pick in the forehead.....and here comes the ice pick in the forehead!! A
million laughs, Mary..."
ls
John Henley
st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
>
> Groucho Marx - possibly the funniest guy who ever lived, possibly
> not.......
>
Well, I guess that covers everything.
John Henley
Austin TX
Jack P. Armstrong
>FZ commenting on Dale Bozzio's laugh when the water is thrown on her and she
>screams...
Ah, but there's more! FZ describes one of his favorite blues guitarists (i
forget whom) as having a great "icepick in the forehead" type of tone. The guy
was murdered when someone shoved an icepick into his forehead, also (which
occured BEFORE zappa's comment, i HOPE). It's either in the In His Own Words
book or the FZ Companion, but i'm too ill and too lazy go to look it up right
now. And too dislexic, judging by that last sentence "lazy go to look"...
np: strictly genteel, ycdtosa6
- - - - - - -
Jody B. (aka Jack P. Armstrong)
"DODONGO hates smoke." - The Old Man
"Buddha would never be in a box in the first place." - some guy wearing a mu-mu
Steve Cobham
wrote:
>>I find the Ice Pick in the forehead to be the most graphic, sanctioning of
>>violence toward women in the Zappa lexicon. And I wonder if Zappa was
>>referring to a Frontal Lobotomy, for young Mary. Or was he saying that
>>anyone who would enter a Wet t-shirt contest must be dumb and therefore
>>wouldn't notice an Ice pick to the forehead.
>>
>>comments?
>>
>
>
>Yeah, hang on a second here. The "ice pick in the forehead" remark is just
>FZ commenting on Dale Bozzio's laugh when the water is thrown on her and she
>screams...how is that sanctioning violence against women???
>
>**
>[Dale laughs/squeaks]:
>
>"No, you'd squeak more if the water got on ya -- sounds like you just an ice
>pick in the forehead.....and here comes the ice pick in the forehead!! A
>million laughs, Mary..."
Yes, but she actually does - seemingly at least - get the ice pick in
the forehead.
Just playing devil's advocate here........not that for a moment do I
even remotely think that FZ is condoning violence towards women.
There's plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Steve Cobham
Armstrong) wrote:
>>Yeah, hang on a second here. The "ice pick in the forehead" remark is just
>>FZ commenting on Dale Bozzio's laugh when the water is thrown on her and she
>>screams...
>
>Ah, but there's more! FZ describes one of his favorite blues guitarists (i
>forget whom) as having a great "icepick in the forehead" type of tone.
Johnny Guitar Watson, I think.
> The guy
>was murdered when someone shoved an icepick into his forehead, also (which
>occured BEFORE zappa's comment, i HOPE).
Eh? I can't recall any blues guitarist murdered with an ice pick -
unless Trotsky was a player.........
Could be wrong though - often am.
>It's either in the In His Own Words
>book or the FZ Companion, but i'm too ill and too lazy go to look it up right
>now. And too dislexic, judging by that last sentence "lazy go to look"...
Dyslexia roolz- KO.............
Steve Cobham
A guy can't be too dogmatic on Usenet.....
John Henley
st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
> On 18 Nov 1999 16:56:01 GMT, stuco...@aol.comABBAZABA (Jack P.
> Armstrong) wrote:
>
>
> > The guy
> >was murdered when someone shoved an icepick into his forehead, also (which
> >occured BEFORE zappa's comment, i HOPE).
>
> Eh? I can't recall any blues guitarist murdered with an ice pick -
> unless Trotsky was a player.........
>
> Could be wrong though - often am.
I think that would be Scrapper Blackwell,
a murder victim in 1962. I seem to recall
that an icepick was mentioned, in liner notes
or somewhere.
But the whole "icepick in the forehead" thing
was FZ's description of JGW's tone as used on
"Three Hours Past Midnight" IIRC.
John Henley
Austin TX
Mike Puterbaugh
>Yes, but she actually does - seemingly at least - get the ice pick
>in the forehead.
I disagree with this assertion. Zany slide whistle glissandos and the
'victim' declaring 'I love it' don't really suggest that the ice pick
line was anything more than a gag within the fictitious setting of La
Brasserie--Home of the Tits.
The Devil farted and blew Chrissy right over a cliff--was that a tacit
approval of violence against women as well? I vote no.
Rev.Geir Corneliussen
>
> Disclaimer note the ala Ben Watson tone of this post:
>
> I understand one aspect of post-modernism to be self reference, as in making
> reference that you are in a recording studio recording a record, while being
> in a recording studio recording a record. Frank Zappa does this with Dale
> Bozzio in "Wet t-shirt night" on Joe's Garage and later on this same album
> during Green Rosetta. I find it especially curious in Green Rosetta when it
> occurs Zappa mentions the "Japanese Sandman" which if you've heard it also
> has a moment of post-modernistic bubble bursting, that is it reveals the
> fact that their are actually people in the recording studio tape recording
> the song.
>
> and movie studio executive type expect us all to believe that the fantasy,
> of a movie or audio recording is real.
You had a bunch of interesting points. I will answer this stuff about
pokong hole in the imaginary bubble. That's a thing that appeals a lot
to me. I rememer I saw this on TV while I was just a kid. It was an
opera, and Italian production I likes quite a lot. I think it was
Mozart, but the set was in a very bizarre environment. The actors were
in hallways and surrealistic landscapes. That was the imaginary world it
was put into. But what fascinated me quite a lot, was that you could see
the cameras. They were not masked. They came in when you did not
expected it, as a reminder that this was in a studio. And that added
another very good quality to the production. They looked interesting,
the old theater atmosphere were mixed up with modern equipment and
mythological figures. It was close to dadad, but I don't think it was an
absurd theater. It was very fascinating. I use this right now, in this
virtual world I make. While I am trying to create a virtual fantasy, I
also poke holes in it here and there. I made a background. When you walk
behind it, you will see it's just a mask. And the bizarre thing is, that
behind the mask is what is expected to be "the real background". So I
made many backgrounds, instead of just one. Wich one is the "real" one?
It's supposed to be the most idiotic looking of them all, the one behind
all the masked ones. The last one you cannot walk thru. And that's the
way I like it.
--
Geir Corneliussen
_______________FLFFZL_____________
http://home.sol.no/~corn/zappa.htm
"There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."
FZ
computeruser
I prefaced the whole post with a disclaimer, eluding to that the comments in
the post may resemble something Ben Watson might have said. I was wearing a
Ben Watson hat ( a training bra) at the time, it was meant to be tongue and
cheek. I will stand by that an Ice Pick in the forehead is a graphic
description of violence.
computeruser
Lewis Saul wrote in message ...
>>I find the Ice Pick in the forehead to be the most graphic, sanctioning of
>>violence toward women in the Zappa lexicon. And I wonder if Zappa was
>>referring to a Frontal Lobotomy, for young Mary. Or was he saying that
>>anyone who would enter a Wet t-shirt contest must be dumb and therefore
>>wouldn't notice an Ice pick to the forehead.
>>
>>comments?
>>
>
>
>Yeah, hang on a second here. The "ice pick in the forehead" remark is just
>FZ commenting on Dale Bozzio's laugh when the water is thrown on her and
she
>screams...how is that sanctioning violence against women???
>
>**
>[Dale laughs/squeaks]:
>
>"No, you'd squeak more if the water got on ya -- sounds like you just an
ice
>pick in the forehead.....and here comes the ice pick in the forehead!! A
>million laughs, Mary..."
>
>
>
>ls
>
>
>
Steve Cobham
Henley) wrote:
>In article <I0Q0OBJB5=LVzxN4qQ6...@4ax.com>,
>st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
>
>> On 18 Nov 1999 16:56:01 GMT, stuco...@aol.comABBAZABA (Jack P.
>> Armstrong) wrote:
>>
>>
>> > The guy
>> >was murdered when someone shoved an icepick into his forehead, also (which
>> >occured BEFORE zappa's comment, i HOPE).
>>
>> Eh? I can't recall any blues guitarist murdered with an ice pick -
>> unless Trotsky was a player.........
>>
>> Could be wrong though - often am.
>
>I think that would be Scrapper Blackwell,
>a murder victim in 1962. I seem to recall
>that an icepick was mentioned, in liner notes
>or somewhere.
Scapper Blackwell was shot.
I'm working on who got the ice pick.........
Konrad
: In article <4tAzOI1HWrxyid...@4ax.com>,
: st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
:> Isn't there a Chaplin or Keaton silent movie where the camera pans
:> away to show the whole set and a film crew at work filming it?
: I can't think of any, but you may be thinking of
: Keaton's "Sherlock Jr." in which a film projectionist
: falls asleep and dreams himself into the movie showing
: on the screen - which then starts to spontaneously
: alter itself. This was a pretty audacious thing for
: its year, 1924.
And pretty great. One of the gags is about silent film itself.
He's suddenly standing on some railroad tracks (which the montage has put
him in) looking out at the audience (into the camera), and ONLY IN THE
NICK OF TIME jumps forward out of the way of a speeding locomotive. The
joke is on the silent cinema: he couldn't have heard the train coming
since he's in a silent movie, and nothing exists until it's seen.
The basic idea was later used by the
: Warner Bros. Termite Terrace crew for such cartoons as
: "You Ought to Be in Pictures" and "Duck Amuck."
Yes, "Duck Amok" is another great one.
But these are not 'post-modern' they are high modernism. The
hallmarks of Zappa's post-modernism are the pastiche (collaging different
styles) and the cheese factor (no high-art / low-art distinction).
konrad
--
^Z
Konrad
: Lewis,
: I prefaced the whole post with a disclaimer, eluding to that the comments in
: the post may resemble something Ben Watson might have said. I was wearing a
: Ben Watson hat ( a training bra) at the time, it was meant to be tongue and
: cheek. I will stand by that an Ice Pick in the forehead is a graphic
: description of violence.
So you are backing down on the claim that it's violence against women?
konrad
--
^Z
Konrad
: On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:51:09 -0800, "Lewis Saul" <ls...@azstarnet.com>
: wrote:
:>>I find the Ice Pick in the forehead to be the most graphic, sanctioning of
:>>violence toward women in the Zappa lexicon. And I wonder if Zappa was
:>>referring to a Frontal Lobotomy, for young Mary. Or was he saying that
:>>anyone who would enter a Wet t-shirt contest must be dumb and therefore
:>>wouldn't notice an Ice pick to the forehead.
:>>
:>>comments?
:>>
:>
:>
:>Yeah, hang on a second here. The "ice pick in the forehead" remark is just
:>FZ commenting on Dale Bozzio's laugh when the water is thrown on her and she
:>screams...how is that sanctioning violence against women???
:>
:>**
:>[Dale laughs/squeaks]:
:>
:>"No, you'd squeak more if the water got on ya -- sounds like you just an ice
:>pick in the forehead.....and here comes the ice pick in the forehead!! A
:>million laughs, Mary..."
: Yes, but she actually does - seemingly at least - get the ice pick in
: the forehead.
Maybe the ice pick in the forehead is a metaphor? Wow!!
Seriously, why isn't it just a description of something worse than
getting cold water dumped on your tits.
Anyway if you want to go Ben Watson on this one, computeruser, you
would say it's Zappa illustrating through hyperbole how male
objectification of women is tantamount to physical violence, i.e.
wet-T-shirt contests are injuring women.
But i don't think it matters.
konrad
computeruser
Konrad wrote in message <811us8$rm9$2...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>...
"give me time to think...."
>
>
> konrad
>
>
>--
>^Z
Lewis Saul
>Lewis,
>
>I prefaced the whole post with a disclaimer, eluding to that the comments
in
>the post may resemble something Ben Watson might have said. I was wearing a
>Ben Watson hat ( a training bra) at the time, it was meant to be tongue and
>cheek.
and hat and beard....
point taken...but....
I will stand by that an Ice Pick in the forehead is a graphic
>description of violence.
I think that Bamboozled By Love is a better, clearer example. Do you really
think Zappa is condoning the sort of attitudes and actions (he murdered
her -- she's underneath the lawn) which the singer is expressing?
ls
>
>computeruser
>
>
>Lewis Saul wrote in message ...
>>>I find the Ice Pick in the forehead to be the most graphic, sanctioning
of
>>>violence toward women in the Zappa lexicon. And I wonder if Zappa was
>>>referring to a Frontal Lobotomy, for young Mary. Or was he saying that
>>>anyone who would enter a Wet t-shirt contest must be dumb and therefore
>>>wouldn't notice an Ice pick to the forehead.
>>>
>>>comments?
>>>
>>
>>
>>Yeah, hang on a second here. The "ice pick in the forehead" remark is
just
>>FZ commenting on Dale Bozzio's laugh when the water is thrown on her and
>she
>>screams...how is that sanctioning violence against women???
>>
>>**
>>[Dale laughs/squeaks]:
>>
>>"No, you'd squeak more if the water got on ya -- sounds like you just an
>ice
>>pick in the forehead.....and here comes the ice pick in the forehead!! A
>>million laughs, Mary..."
>>
>>
>>
>>ls
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Sam and/or Karen Rouse
* Scrapper Blackwell, potential ice-pick murder victim in 1962
(or maybe not)
* Johnny Guitar Watson, with an ice-pick guitar tone (as used in
"Three Hours Past Midnight")
* Trotsky
* The sound Mary makes when icy water is dumped on her (and her
tits)
* Bing Crosby, Bob Hope, Eddie Cantor, Shakespeare, and the
Marx Bros. revealing the studio workings behind the film/play
* Post-Modernism (which may or may not be the result of the
marrow having been sucked from the bones of Modernism -
sorry, another ancient thread)
Put it all in a box and shake it up, and you probably end up
with the same thing, and everything still connected to everything
else.
CC/Project/Object in action, baybay!
--
"The music becomes more and more abstract sounding like a
syncopated barnyard button factory."
- David Lynch, "Ronnie Rocket"
Christopher Ekman
>computeruser <RoyC...@juno.com> wrote:
>>I will stand by that an Ice Pick in the forehead is a graphic
>>description of violence.
>I think that Bamboozled By Love is a better, clearer example. Do you really
think
>Zappa is condoning the sort of attitudes and actions (he murdered her --
she's
>underneath the lawn) which the singer is expressing?
Here's something I've never understood. Zappa wrote at least two songs
(Bamboozled By Love and Your Mouth) wherein a man threatens violence to a
straying woman. Well, er, Frank did not exactly, um, uphold standards of
fidelity his own self. Sure, I know he was mainly recycling "blues
mythology" (the Illinois Enema Bandit defense), but isn't the double
standard, at least, troubling?
Chris Ekman
cek...@pomona.edu
Rolf Maurer
wrote:
>I will stand by that an Ice Pick in the forehead is a graphic
>>description of violence.
>
>I think that Bamboozled By Love is a better, clearer example. Do you really
>think Zappa is condoning the sort of attitudes and actions (he murdered
>her -- she's underneath the lawn) which the singer is expressing?
Nah, he's just making a social observation, in a bemused and detached
fashion, without commenting on it. I mean, that was his usual method,
right? He rarely criticized things directly: he'd just kind of gently
poke fun at them, in an ironic way, leaving us to scratch our heads
and wonder what he might really have thought about (say) censorship of
music.
With all due respect, Lewis, this stubborn reluctance to acknowledge
the obvious -- that Zappa was not a feminist -- strikes me as curious.
Can't he be a sexist pigdog and still compose great music? The fact
that Mozart was a racist Masonic kook didn't prevent him from cranking
out some listenable tunes. Can't Holy Frank have some flaws too?
Rolf
Rev.Geir Corneliussen
This is old stuff. Every once in a while, someone say Zappa was a
sexist. But he was just a guy. He was just honest, and interested in
varied topics. If anyone prefer to think that other composers were less
sexistic than Zappa, that's okay with me. If anyone think Elvis was a
very nice and romantic guy because he sang "love me tender", well,
belive it. He was actually pretty wild in private. I think Zappa was a
great guy compared to the other rockstars out there.
Icepick in the forehead? So one can't write something for use in a song
about a wet T-shirt contest, before you automatic are promoting violence
against women? I think Stephen King would have had a hard time if people
thought that way about his writings...
Michael Gula
>
> Lewis Saul wrote:
>
> >>I will stand by that an Ice Pick in the forehead is a graphic
> >>description of violence.
>
> >I think that Bamboozled By Love is a better, clearer example. Do you really
> think
> >Zappa is condoning the sort of attitudes and actions (he murdered her --
> she's
> >underneath the lawn) which the singer is expressing?
>
> (Bamboozled By Love and Your Mouth) wherein a man threatens violence to a
> straying woman. Well, er, Frank did not exactly, um, uphold standards of
> fidelity his own self. Sure, I know he was mainly recycling "blues
> mythology" (the Illinois Enema Bandit defense), but isn't the double
> standard, at least, troubling?
He allowed WMF to record "Jennifer Jones." Equal-opportunity
mayhem.
--
To reply remove MORESPAM
kipmat
-> He allowed WMF to record "Jennifer Jones." Equal-opportunity
-> mayhem.
Wasn't that the Clash? Oh, wait...
--
spam to: kip...@yahoo.com
"Why do people *guess* facts?" - JWB
Ubermolch
>reference that you are in a recording studio recording a record, while being
>in a recording studio recording a record. Frank Zappa does this with Dale
>Bozzio in "Wet t-shirt night" on Joe's Garage and later on this same album
>during Green Rosetta.
*****I don't exactly see how the icepick in the forehead is a self-reference.
As for Green Rosetta, it is a reference to recording a soundtrack, but the
whole album is intended to be an educational propaganda film, so it's all
self-reference. The use of Green Rosetta at the end is to reveal the base
hypocrisy of the powers that be -- they arent' against music, because they'll
use music to cow the masses. Instead they're against independent thought.
Anyway, in that sort of a context, the self-referencing to the production is
not out of the ordinary, nor really even very post modern.
-_Der Ubermolch
John Henley
ro...@teleport.com (Sam and/or Karen Rouse) wrote:
>
> Put it all in a box and shake it up, and you probably end up
> with the same thing, and everything still connected to everything
> else.
>
> CC/Project/Object in action, baybay!
It's one of the reasons we all be here,
ain't it?
John Henley
Austin TX
Lewis Saul
>
>With all due respect, Lewis, this stubborn reluctance to acknowledge
>the obvious -- that Zappa was not a feminist -- strikes me as curious.
>Can't he be a sexist pigdog and still compose great music? The fact
>that Mozart was a racist Masonic kook didn't prevent him from cranking
>out some listenable tunes. Can't Holy Frank have some flaws too?
>
I have to catch a plane, but keep talking -- I'll be back on Tuesday....
Some of you probably think we're running this shit into the ground -- but
there's some very interesting observations to be made here....
I'm sure when I get back this thread will mostly be about the correct use of
the semi-colon in sentences which contain nested tuplets.
:)
have a good one everybody!
ls
Johan Lif
> I think that Bamboozled By Love is a better, clearer example. Do you really
> think Zappa is condoning the sort of attitudes and actions (he murdered
> her -- she's underneath the lawn) which the singer is expressing?
No, I don't think Zappa himself approved of murder, but that's totally
beside the point when discussing a song like that, which isn't about
condoning or condemning anything. Nor is it a "social documentary". It's
been said that it's a play (not a parody) with blues cliches, and that's
true enough. What makes the song so unsettling and interesting is the
total absence of a "moral centre": the listener is forced to provide
that for himself, to participate.
Johan
computeruser
Johan Lif wrote in message
<199911192...@d212-151-175-108.swipnet.se>...
>No, I don't think Zappa himself approved of murder, but that's totally
>beside the point when discussing a song like that, which isn't about
>condoning or condemning anything. Nor is it a "social documentary". It's
>been said that it's a play (not a parody) with blues cliches, and that's
>true enough. What makes the song so unsettling and interesting is the
>total absence of a "moral centre": the listener is forced to provide
>that for himself, to participate.
>
>Johan
I have wondered if Zappa would approve of murder in certain instances. I
offer to you the inclusion of Loeb & Leopold, known thrill killers, in the
Freak Out contribuors list. Secondly from this same list Saccco & Vanzetti
accused killers, and anarchist, and leftists. Purely speculation, yet
informed speculation.
More food for thought..
computeruser
Michael Gula
> I have wondered if Zappa would approve of murder in certain instances.
I know his guitar would.
0vercooked
st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
>On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:31:05 -0500, jhe...@mail.utexas.edu (John
>Henley) wrote:
>
>>In article <dRs0OJoS=hpUNSoNyL...@4ax.com>,
>>st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Groucho Marx - possibly the funniest guy who ever lived, possibly
>>> not.......
>>>
>>
>>Well, I guess that covers everything.
>
>A guy can't be too dogmatic on Usenet.....
I can. The Marx Bros. movies have influenced modern comedy more than
any other comedic product.
0vercooked
st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
>On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 13:22:55 -0500, jhe...@mail.utexas.edu (John
>Henley) wrote:
>
>>In article <I0Q0OBJB5=LVzxN4qQ6...@4ax.com>,
>>st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 Nov 1999 16:56:01 GMT, stuco...@aol.comABBAZABA (Jack P.
>>> Armstrong) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> > The guy
>>> >was murdered when someone shoved an icepick into his forehead, also (which
>>> >occured BEFORE zappa's comment, i HOPE).
>>>
>>> Eh? I can't recall any blues guitarist murdered with an ice pick -
>>> unless Trotsky was a player.........
>>>
>>> Could be wrong though - often am.
>>
>>I think that would be Scrapper Blackwell,
>>a murder victim in 1962. I seem to recall
>>that an icepick was mentioned, in liner notes
>>or somewhere.
>
>Scapper Blackwell was shot.
>
>I'm working on who got the ice pick.........
Right, Steve will find the REAL killer.
computeruser
Michael Gula wrote in message <3836130D...@erols.com>...
>computeruser wrote:
>
>> I have wondered if Zappa would approve of murder in certain instances.
>
>I know his guitar would.
how do you spell touche'?
Rolf Maurer
wrote:
>Lewis Saul <ls...@azstarnet.com> wrote:
>
>> I think that Bamboozled By Love is a better, clearer example. Do you really
>> think Zappa is condoning the sort of attitudes and actions (he murdered
>> her -- she's underneath the lawn) which the singer is expressing?
>
>No, I don't think Zappa himself approved of murder, but that's totally
>beside the point when discussing a song like that, which isn't about
>condoning or condemning anything. Nor is it a "social documentary". It's
>been said that it's a play (not a parody) with blues cliches, and that's
>true enough. What makes the song so unsettling and interesting is the
>total absence of a "moral centre": the listener is forced to provide
>that for himself, to participate.
This is a good point, Johan; though it applies whether or not
Bamboozled or IEB or Jumbo or whatever has this "moral centre". NO
MATTER WHAT Zappa may have thought about whatever, the listener still
has the responsibility to think for theyself.
I'm tempted to add, "That's the way Frank would have wanted," but who
gives a rat's ass what he thought anyway?
Rolf
Tal
> Here's something I've never understood. Zappa wrote at least two songs
> (Bamboozled By Love and Your Mouth) wherein a man threatens violence to a
> straying woman. Well, er, Frank did not exactly, um, uphold standards of
> fidelity his own self. Sure, I know he was mainly recycling "blues
> mythology" (the Illinois Enema Bandit defense), but isn't the double
> standard, at least, troubling?
Well, as far as I'm concerned there's a
difference between lyrical contents and
day-to-day behaviour. Or let me put it like
this: I can easily type: "I'm gonna kill
that son-of-a-bitch, his entire family and
I'll piss on his grave", while in real life, I
wouldn't even hurt a fly. Is that double
standard?
By the way, while on the subject of
killing: how is Zoogz doing? Any news?
AA
Steve Cobham
<overc...@REMOOOVE.netdirect.net> wrote:
>>>> > The guy
>>>> >was murdered when someone shoved an icepick into his forehead, also (which
>>>> >occured BEFORE zappa's comment, i HOPE).
>>>>
>>>> Eh? I can't recall any blues guitarist murdered with an ice pick -
>>>> unless Trotsky was a player.........
>>>>
>>>> Could be wrong though - often am.
>>>
>>>I think that would be Scrapper Blackwell,
>>>a murder victim in 1962. I seem to recall
>>>that an icepick was mentioned, in liner notes
>>>or somewhere.
>>
>>Scapper Blackwell was shot.
>>
>>I'm working on who got the ice pick.........
>
>Right, Steve will find the REAL killer.
Elementary, my dear Watson.
The only people who had access to ice picks must have been Nanook or
the fur trapper.
As the fur trapper currently resides in the parish of St. Alfonzo
getting his eyes healed, it must have been Nanook who wielded the
weapon and did for Mary.
The Inuit dunnit.
OK, I know that this solution may involve the incorrect use of the
term "ice pick", but, as FZ would say, WTF.
As for a bluesman murdered with an ice pick, I've come up short.
Nearly all violent deaths were from gunshots.
I discovered three "different" deaths.
Robert Johnson is said to have been poisoned following a liaison with
someone else's woman - hard to separate fact from fantasy with him but
never any mention of him being killed in any sort of fight.
Little Walter was fatally injured in a street brawl, but from what
I've read, the killer factor was hitting his head on the pavement.
Sonny Boy #1 - i.e. not Rice Miller, the guy who could play harp with
his nose - was murdered in a street fight but It doesn't say what
actually killed him.
Any more details about this last one?
The mystery continues................
0vercooked
wrote:
>
>Michael Gula wrote in message <3836130D...@erols.com>...
>>computeruser wrote:
>>
>>> I have wondered if Zappa would approve of murder in certain instances.
>>
>>I know his guitar would.
>
>
>
>how do you spell touche'?
It is either touchč or touché.
I am leaning towards touché.
Kristian Kier
<overc...@REMOOOVE.netdirect.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Nov 1999 23:12:41 -0500, "computeruser" <RoyC...@juno.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Michael Gula wrote in message <3836130D...@erols.com>...
>>>computeruser wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have wondered if Zappa would approve of murder in certain instances.
>>>
>>>I know his guitar would.
>>
>>
>>
>>how do you spell touche'?
>
>It is either touchè or touché.
>I am leaning towards touché.
Taataaaaaa..... ??
-Kristian
Steve Cobham
Correct - an acute accent produces an "ay" sound.
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
kip...@yahoo.com wrote:
>mike...@MORESPAMerols.com wrote:
>-> He allowed WMF to record "Jennifer Jones." Equal-opportunity
>-> mayhem.
>
>Wasn't that the Clash? Oh, wait...
No, they did "Julie's Working For The Federal Bureau Of Narcotics."
Your pal,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew @}-`--}----
"Boys throw stones at frogs in sport, but the frogs do not die in sport
but in earnest."--Plutarch
computeruser
David Riley wrote in message ...
>biffy...@aol.commie.rats (Biffy the Elephant Shrew) writes:
>
>> In article <kipmat-1911...@d185fc219.rochester.rr.com>,
>> kip...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> >mike...@MORESPAMerols.com wrote:
>> >-> He allowed WMF to record "Jennifer Jones." Equal-opportunity
>> >-> mayhem.
>> >
>> >Wasn't that the Clash? Oh, wait...
>>
>> No, they did "Julie's Working For The Federal Bureau Of Narcotics."
>
>
>ObFZ: can anyone else see a `surrealist' FZ's head on the cover of
>_WOIIFTM_ held upside down? Bunk Gardner (seated) is the face, and
>the shadows either side of him, and FZ's and Billy Mundi's dark
>dresses are the hair. BG's beard suggests the mustache, and his
>hair is the chin bit, whatever it's called.
It is sometimes called a Soul Patch.
computeruser
>
>--
>David Riley da...@dmriley.demon.co.uk
kipmat
<RoyC...@juno.com> wrote:
-> David Riley wrote in message ...
-> >And `janie jones'.
-> >
-> >ObFZ: can anyone else see a `surrealist' FZ's head on the cover of
-> >_WOIIFTM_ held upside down? Bunk Gardner (seated) is the face, and
-> >the shadows either side of him, and FZ's and Billy Mundi's dark
-> >dresses are the hair. BG's beard suggests the mustache, and his
-> >hair is the chin bit, whatever it's called.
->
-> It is sometimes called a Soul Patch.
Matt Groenig thinks it's called an "imperial".
And for the record, the song I was thinking of was "Janie Jones". 5
points to Mr. Riley.
kipmat
st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
-> The mystery continues................
Steve, have you checked The Real Frank Zappa Book?
Not that it's an authority on anything, but p. 179 drops a clue . . .
So if we have the killer and the weapon, all we need is the room, right?
Al Clarke
(Kristian Kier) wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Nov 1999 23:26:09 -0500, 0vercooked
> <overc...@REMOOOVE.netdirect.net> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 19 Nov 1999 23:12:41 -0500, "computeruser" <RoyC...@juno.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Michael Gula wrote in message <3836130D...@erols.com>...
> >>>computeruser wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I have wondered if Zappa would approve of murder in certain instances.
> >>>
He was against war, death penalty and what Sun Village became so I'd say no.
He did however say that ww2 was an exception though.
David Riley
> In article <kipmat-1911...@d185fc219.rochester.rr.com>,
> kip...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >mike...@MORESPAMerols.com wrote:
> >-> He allowed WMF to record "Jennifer Jones." Equal-opportunity
> >-> mayhem.
> >
> >Wasn't that the Clash? Oh, wait...
>
> No, they did "Julie's Working For The Federal Bureau Of Narcotics."
And `janie jones'.
ObFZ: can anyone else see a `surrealist' FZ's head on the cover of
_WOIIFTM_ held upside down? Bunk Gardner (seated) is the face, and
the shadows either side of him, and FZ's and Billy Mundi's dark
dresses are the hair. BG's beard suggests the mustache, and his
hair is the chin bit, whatever it's called.
--
David Riley da...@dmriley.demon.co.uk
Steve Cobham
>In article <8Gk2OCyhG=Z0u4xsyHp...@4ax.com>,
>st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
>-> The mystery continues................
>
>Steve, have you checked The Real Frank Zappa Book?
I just have and FZ definitely says that it was an icepick that did for
Guitar Slim - one of FZ's early influences.
In the various blues reference books I have, it says that he died of
pneumonia.
>
>Not that it's an authority on anything, but p. 179 drops a clue . . .
That's a mighty big clue.
Incidentally, the RFZB lives in my bathroom most of the time. When I
have to "use the facilities" I just pick the book up and dip into it
at random. It's sort of like the "I Ching" for me - I use it to get
guidance and/or inspiration for the coming day.
>
>So if we have the killer and the weapon, all we need is the room, right?
A number of SOC's spring to mind -
The typing pool room at Big Swifty and Associates,
A lonely teenage bedroom,
The pantry at St Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast............
Chris Maxfield
st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) writes:
>A number of SOC's spring to mind -
>
>The typing pool room at Big Swifty and Associates,
>
>A lonely teenage bedroom,
>
>The pantry at St Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast............
>
Here in Seattle, Washington, not far from where I live, there is a St.
Alphonsus Catholic Church, and, believe it or not, they have a regularly
scheduled Pancake Breakfast (for collecting charitable cortributions).
Zapp...@aol.com a.k.a. Chris Maxfield
Kill Ugly Sig Files!
Jack P. Armstrong
>Incidentally, the RFZB lives in my bathroom most of the time. When I
>have to "use the facilities" I just pick the book up and dip into it
>at random. It's sort of like the "I Ching" for me - I use it to get
>guidance and/or inspiration for the coming day.
Me too! I occasionally rotate in other tomes though - Bloom County books, The
Big Book Of Hell, the Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock N Roll, etc...
- - - - - - -
Jody B. (aka Jack P. Armstrong)
"DODONGO hates smoke." - The Old Man
"Buddha would never be in a box in the first place." - some guy wearing a mu-mu
Rolf Maurer
>In article <#O5MjzIN$GA.340@cpmsnbbsa05>, "computeruser"
><RoyC...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>-> David Riley wrote in message ...
>-> >And `janie jones'.
>-> >
>-> >ObFZ: can anyone else see a `surrealist' FZ's head on the cover of
>-> >_WOIIFTM_ held upside down? Bunk Gardner (seated) is the face, and
>-> >the shadows either side of him, and FZ's and Billy Mundi's dark
>-> >dresses are the hair. BG's beard suggests the mustache, and his
>-> >hair is the chin bit, whatever it's called.
>->
>-> It is sometimes called a Soul Patch.
>
>Matt Groenig thinks it's called an "imperial".
This is what I've heard as well -- imperial, named in honour of the
19th century proto-Eurotrash celeb, Emperor "Window or Aisle Seat"
Napoleon III of Fronce, who popularized the style.
Rolf
kipmat
st...@XSPAMguitarsMAPSX.powernet.co.uk (Steve Cobham) wrote:
-> In the various blues reference books I have, it says that he died of
-> pneumonia.
A distinct possibility - perhaps the coroner knows ...
-> Incidentally, the RFZB lives in my bathroom most of the time. When I
-> have to "use the facilities" I just pick the book up and dip into it
-> at random. It's sort of like the "I Ching" for me - I use it to get
-> guidance and/or inspiration for the coming day.
Oddly enough, I had to enter the bathroom to get my copy as well, since I
had been doing some re-reading of it on my own time. Spooky, huh?
louisguys
> Maybe the ice pick in the forehead is a metaphor? Wow!!
> Seriously, why isn't it just a description of something worse than
> getting cold water dumped on your tits.
I heard Frank make this reference about a specific tone of his
guitar/amp that made you feel that way if you were standing in front of
his rig. It's a very descriptive term for that piercing feeling that
goes straight to the bone, so I guess he meant the same thing in regard
to the "lady".
louisguys
==
Kill Ugly Radio! (And TV!)
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
0vercooked
Acocrding to my 1945 paper dictionary and 1994 CDROM dictionary, it is
a pointed beard or tuft of hair on a man's chin, hence FZ didn't have
an imperial.
Chris Maxfield
<overc...@REMOOOVE.netdirect.net> writes:
>Acocrding to my 1945 paper dictionary and 1994 CDROM dictionary, it is
>a pointed beard or tuft of hair on a man's chin, hence FZ didn't have
>an imperial.
>
Frank had a tuft of hair on his chin.
Peter de B. Harrington
is froze hits you in the nose and other protuberances. About 8 years ago,
when this discussion came up, several women members of affz, thought this
song depicted violence against women, and believed an actual ice pick was
inserted into Mary's forehead.
Pete
louisguys <louisguy...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:1415c574...@usw-ex0101-003.remarq.com...
Rev.Geir Corneliussen
>
> I think the ice pick refers to the ice cream head-ache when the water that
> is froze hits you in the nose and other protuberances. About 8 years ago,
> when this discussion came up, several women members of affz, thought this
> song depicted violence against women, and believed an actual ice pick was
> inserted into Mary's forehead.
There were women at affz? Eight years ago? They thought Mary got an
icepick in the forehead?
--
Geir Corneliussen
_______________FLFFZL_____________
http://home.sol.no/~corn/zappa.htm
"There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."
FZ
Ulrik Volgsten
of a Virtual Listener, I devote some sixty-five pages to the "serious"
music of Frank Zappa. Among other things I discuss the extent to which
he built his compositions on guitar solos. I also discuss whether this
can be seen as a Modernist or Postmodernist attitude towards musical
material and composition.
The book (242 pages) can be ordered from
Department of Musicology
Stockholm University
Valhallavagen 103-109
S-11531 Stockholm
Sweden
Price 100 skr (ex. postage)
Furbelly
>biffy...@aol.commie.rats (Biffy the Elephant Shrew) writes:
>
>> In article <kipmat-1911...@d185fc219.rochester.rr.com>,
>> kip...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> >mike...@MORESPAMerols.com wrote:
>> >-> He allowed WMF to record "Jennifer Jones." Equal-opportunity
>> >-> mayhem.
>> >
>> >Wasn't that the Clash? Oh, wait...
>>
>> No, they did "Julie's Working For The Federal Bureau Of Narcotics."
>
>And `janie jones'.
>
>
patch of hair under his lip a "genghis".
D.
0vercooked
wrote:
>In article <48vj3sckcp75kkcl1...@4ax.com>, 0vercooked
><overc...@REMOOOVE.netdirect.net> writes:
>
>>Acocrding to my 1945 paper dictionary and 1994 CDROM dictionary, it is
>>a pointed beard or tuft of hair on a man's chin, hence FZ didn't have
>>an imperial.
>>
>
>Frank had a tuft of hair on his chin.
It was not a pointed tuft.
Steve Cobham
Whatever it was, was it truly on his chin?
I'd say more lower-lip'ish.
Besides, if you look at photos of FZ thoughout his life, the thing
changed quite a lot, as did his moustache..
Darkhop
>
> On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:15:04 -0500, 0vercooked
> <overc...@REMOOOVE.netdirect.net> wrote:
>
> >On 23 Nov 1999 04:02:10 GMT, zapp...@aol.commonman (Chris Maxfield)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>In article <48vj3sckcp75kkcl1...@4ax.com>, 0vercooked
> >><overc...@REMOOOVE.netdirect.net> writes:
> >>
> >>>Acocrding to my 1945 paper dictionary and 1994 CDROM dictionary, it is
> >>>a pointed beard or tuft of hair on a man's chin, hence FZ didn't have
> >>>an imperial.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Frank had a tuft of hair on his chin.
> >
> >It was not a pointed tuft.
>
> Whatever it was, was it truly on his chin?
>
> I'd say more lower-lip'ish.
>
> Besides, if you look at photos of FZ thoughout his life, the thing
> changed quite a lot, as did his moustache..
So, what we have here is tuft shift.
/JSH - now we're getting somewhere
http://www.darkhop.com
Michael Gula
> Whatever it was, was it truly on his chin?
>
> I'd say more lower-lip'ish.
>
> Besides, if you look at photos of FZ thoughout his life, the thing
> changed quite a lot, as did his moustache..
Sometimes he just smeared greasepaint on, like Groucho.
--
To reply remove MORESPAM
Darkhop
> >Steve, have you checked The Real Frank Zappa Book?
>
> I just have and FZ definitely says that it was an icepick that did for
> Guitar Slim - one of FZ's early influences.
I'm sure everyone will be pleased to know that since a normally innocent
tool used for picking ice was corrupted into a murdering instrument, I
turned the tables and used a reproduction sword to get the last bits out
of my freezer when I defrosted yesterday.
But, I made sure to powder & wipe it with a static free cloth, then bow
to it before tossing it migno imminously into the corner.
/JSH - anybody know why I post this crap?
http://www.darkhop.com/affz2.htm
Steve Cobham
<johnh...@BEST.GUESS.darkhop.com> wrote:
>Steve Cobham wrote:
>
>> >Steve, have you checked The Real Frank Zappa Book?
>>
>> I just have and FZ definitely says that it was an icepick that did for
>> Guitar Slim - one of FZ's early influences.
>
>I'm sure everyone will be pleased to know that since a normally innocent
>tool used for picking ice was corrupted into a murdering instrument, I
>turned the tables and used a reproduction sword to get the last bits out
>of my freezer when I defrosted yesterday.
>
>But, I made sure to powder & wipe it with a static free cloth, then bow
>to it before tossing it migno imminously into the corner.
When I used to teach in State schools, my first job was in a really
tough school.
One of the other teachers confiscated a flick knife - I believe that's
a switchblade in the US, no?
The school secretary annexed it and used to use it for opening letters
as she thought it was really safe as the blade was
retractable..........
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
I thought I could *kind of* see this, but not really...then I walked with
the cover in hand into a semi-darkened room (with the only light coming
from the computer screen) and BANGO--it was plain to see. Took it out
into the light again and it disappeared. Weird.
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
>I turned the tables and used a reproduction sword to get the last bits
>out of my freezer when I defrosted yesterday.
Sounds painful. I'll keep my "reproduction sword" in my pants, thank you
very much.
(These men...and the things they call a wee-wee.)
David Riley
> David Riley <da...@dmriley.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >ObFZ: can anyone else see a `surrealist' FZ's head on the cover of
> >_WOIIFTM_ held upside down? Bunk Gardner (seated) is the face, and
> >the shadows either side of him, and FZ's and Billy Mundi's dark
> >dresses are the hair. BG's beard suggests the mustache, and his
> >hair is the chin bit, whatever it's called.
> >
> Is this like one of them "magic eye" thingies?
No, it's like how the surrealists made faces appear out of other
juxtaposed objects, like in Dali's _the invisible man_.
Although it is not a perfect likeness, it stands out enough to
make me wonder if it was deliberate.
--
David Riley da...@dmriley.demon.co.uk
Gd@darkhop.com Gdog Gdog Gd
>
> In article <383BE9...@BEST.GUESS.darkhop.com>, Darkhop wrote:
>
> >I turned the tables and used a reproduction sword to get the last bits
> >out of my freezer when I defrosted yesterday.
>
> Sounds painful. I'll keep my "reproduction sword" in my pants, thank you
> very much.
>
> (These men...and the things they call a wee-wee.)
I wish I'd thought of that.
/Gdog -- do as he says, he's got a reproduction icepick
Deep Purple, Frank Zappa, PC graphics, movie
reviews, fun stuff, and philosophical rubbish at:
http://www.darkhop.com/
RRAALLFF
>
...it stands out enough to
>make me wonder if it was deliberate.
>
>--
The answer to that is: No.
Rolf Maurer
<overc...@REMOOOVE.netdirect.net> wrote:
>>>-> It is sometimes called a Soul Patch.
>>>
>>>Matt Groenig thinks it's called an "imperial".
>>
>>This is what I've heard as well -- imperial, named in honour of the
>>19th century proto-Eurotrash celeb, Emperor "Window or Aisle Seat"
>>Napoleon III of Fronce, who popularized the style.
>
>Acocrding to my 1945 paper dictionary and 1994 CDROM dictionary, it is
>a pointed beard or tuft of hair on a man's chin, hence FZ didn't have
>an imperial.
This device is also known as a lip beard. As someone sporting one of
these growths (tho not the Zappa but the David Thomas model), I much
prefer imperial.
Geez -- we're long overdue around here for some NEW PRODUCT and
something real to talk about, huh?
Rolf
Rolf Maurer
Elephant Shrew) wrote:
>
>In article <XXB_3.10$jb....@typhoon.mbnet.mb.ca>, Ha...@Mynavel.ca wrote:
>
>>In article <m3pux31...@dmriley.demon.co.uk>, David Riley
>><da...@dmriley.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>ObFZ: can anyone else see a `surrealist' FZ's head on the cover of
>>>_WOIIFTM_ held upside down? Bunk Gardner (seated) is the face, and
>>>the shadows either side of him, and FZ's and Billy Mundi's dark
>>>dresses are the hair. BG's beard suggests the mustache, and his
>>>hair is the chin bit, whatever it's called.
>>>
>>Is this like one of them "magic eye" thingies?
>
>I thought I could *kind of* see this, but not really...then I walked with
>the cover in hand into a semi-darkened room (with the only light coming
>from the computer screen)
The _blue light_ ... you think he had it all planned?
Rolf
Rev.Geir Corneliussen
> Geez -- we're long overdue around here for some NEW PRODUCT and
> something real to talk about, huh?
>
> Rolf
I think it's fantastic how many and varied topics on Zappa that has been
discussed out here. Frome the lamest to the most advanced. And it has
been written by the most varied group of people ever seen online. It
came from the most absurdius nonsensius of lameness, to the most
rational of analytical thinkers. All the lame folks, all the angry, all
the sane and all the insane.
The net is full of loonies.
Do some remember the insane poet? James Crary. The guy that came out
here and wrote about Zappas sons. They said he was a nutcase at the
Peter Gabriel newsgroup, so he went over here. Ron Spiegelthaler
discussed with him. I checked his webpage, and there was some scans
there, a couple of megabite big I never completed downloading, but it
looked like it was just some enormous letters. Nothing else. I think
they were some 3000x5000 pixels big. Uncompressed. What I saw on his
web, was nuts. When you shake your head when you go for more coffe, and
still shake yer head when yer back, you know that what you just saw was
way too much.
And there is still a load of stuff left to discuss. What about Zappas
nails. They look pretty long.
Geir Corneliussen
_______________FLFFZL_____________
http://home.sol.no/~corn/zappa.htm
"I never promised you no Rose Garden!"
ThingFish
David Blumenstein
> Ha...@Mynavel.ca (Furbelly) writes:
>
> > David Riley <da...@dmriley.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > >ObFZ: can anyone else see a `surrealist' FZ's head on the cover of
> > >_WOIIFTM_ held upside down? Bunk Gardner (seated) is the face, and
> > >the shadows either side of him, and FZ's and Billy Mundi's dark
> > >dresses are the hair. BG's beard suggests the mustache, and his
> > >hair is the chin bit, whatever it's called.
> > >
> > Is this like one of them "magic eye" thingies?
>
> No, it's like how the surrealists made faces appear out of other
> juxtaposed objects, like in Dali's _the invisible man_.
>
> Although it is not a perfect likeness, it stands out enough to
> make me wonder if it was deliberate.
I couldn't see it at all, then I squinted, and damn -- it is there! The
bare chest is the nose, right?
Pretty nifty, but I seriously doubt it's deliberate.
Davd Blumenstein