Dont hesitate on this one 9641
Phil Raqoon
news:3bcc8dae$0$8512$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net...
> 80 Million Fresh email addresses Available NOW with free Mass Mailer and
other essential applications.
Okay... that's fine!
Can I reserve Commande...@Frontier.First.Encounters.org ??? And can I
then perpetually send unlimited abuse-junk email back to you for advertising
in my precious newsgroup?
Raqoon (Fed)
==========================
Web: www.raqoon.co.uk
Email: ph...@raqoon.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0)7989 658427
==========================
Gregor Kuhlmann
Give'em Hell
- Gregor *bfeg*
BTW your website is cool. Too bad I can't read the system info on 800x600
without having to use "full screen" mode on IE!!!
> > 80 Million Fresh email addresses Available NOW with free Mass Mailer and
> other essential applications.
>
Phil Raqoon
> without having to use "full screen" mode on IE!!!
>
Sorry Greg,
I purposely made it so that the screen resolution would have to be 1024 x
768 to view the website properly. I fiound 800 x 600 a little too tight a
parameter for what I had in mind. I hope this isn't too much of an
inconvenience?
regards,
Brian Ronald
>
> > BTW your website is cool. Too bad I can't read the system info on 800x600
> > without having to use "full screen" mode on IE!!!
> >
>
> Sorry Greg,
>
> I purposely made it so that the screen resolution would have to be 1024 x
> 768 to view the website properly. I fiound 800 x 600 a little too tight a
> parameter for what I had in mind. I hope this isn't too much of an
> inconvenience?
I guess I won't waste my time looking for content on your site with my
handheld PC. I suppose when somebody publishes a site for others to
view, it's whatever's convenient for the publisher that's important.
After all, the fact that it's published is just coincidental.
--
Brian Ronald ICQ: 56659882
----------------------------------------------
http://www.tyneside.lug.org.uk/ - Tyneside LUG
http://fd.cx/ - Our flat!
Crayfish
"Brian Ronald" <Brian....@unforgettable.com> wrote in message
> Phil Raqoon wrote:
> > I purposely made it so that the screen resolution would have to be 1024
x
> > 768 to view the website properly. I fiound 800 x 600 a little too tight
a
> > parameter for what I had in mind. I hope this isn't too much of an
> > inconvenience?
>
> I guess I won't waste my time looking for content on your site with my
> handheld PC. I suppose when somebody publishes a site for others to
> view, it's whatever's convenient for the publisher that's important.
> After all, the fact that it's published is just coincidental.
>
I think you're being a bit harsh. If a publisher chooses to publish an A3
book of art prints its up to him. They buyer shouldn't then complain that
its awkward to read while walking down the street.
--
Crayfish
ps. I also have a Pocket PC and I'm so used to scrolling around even
normally sized web pages that scrolling that bit further on a site designed
for 1024x768 isn't going to bother me that much.
Martin Christensen
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Crayfish" == Crayfish <cray...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> I guess I won't waste my time looking for content on your site with
>> my handheld PC. I suppose when somebody publishes a site for
>> others to view, it's whatever's convenient for the publisher that's
>> important. After all, the fact that it's published is just
>> coincidental.
Crayfish> I think you're being a bit harsh. If a publisher chooses to
Crayfish> publish an A3 book of art prints its up to him. They buyer
Crayfish> shouldn't then complain that its awkward to read while
Crayfish> walking down the street.
From the W3C's entry page:
The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) develops interoperable
technologies (specifications, guidelines, software, and tools)
to lead the Web to its full potential as a forum for
information, commerce, communication, and collective
understanding.
These people are the blokes who determine the standards of the web,
and among its members are all the big browser manufacturers. They are
basically what the web is all about. Let me know if you disagree. From
http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Points the primary points that they think
that the web is about are:
1. Universal access
2. Semantic web
3. Trust
4. Interoperability
5. Evolvability
6. Decentralisation
7. Cooler multimedia
These goals can be acheived by everyone if we all stick to the
standards that they proscribe, or they can be acheived for some of
us... _if_ we happen to use this or that software, as Phil would have
us do. These standards doesn't limit the things possible on the web,
but makes them accessible to everyone who will comply with the
standards, as well as make the lives of web designers easier (write
once, works everywhere). However, this does destroy the wannabe
monopoly that Microsoft is trying to establish...
Yes, it's political. What kind of web do you want for us to have?
Martin
- --
Homepage: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
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Phil Raqoon
> standards that they proscribe, or they can be acheived for some of
> us... _if_ we happen to use this or that software, as Phil would have
> us do. These standards doesn't limit the things possible on the web,
> but makes them accessible to everyone who will comply with the
> standards, as well as make the lives of web designers easier (write
> once, works everywhere). However, this does destroy the wannabe
> monopoly that Microsoft is trying to establish...
Does the name George Orwell & "1984" sound familiar? It those people who
dare to challenge the establishment (whatever that may be) who are the real
achivers in life. Jules Verne... Michael Angelo... Colombus... even Dr
Stephen Hawkings who's paraplegic and in a wheelchair was not taken
seriously until science had advanced itself to a level where a lot of his
unproved theories started to make sense to people. (who originally thought
they knew better!)
Anyway, count me out, because I am no Stephen Hawkings... not by a long way!
I admire people for their inginuity and skill, no matter which walk of life
they come from. I only despise bullshitters...
Martin Christensen
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Phil" == Phil Raqoon <ph...@raqoon.co.uk> writes:
Phil> Does the name George Orwell & "1984" sound familiar? It those
Phil> people who dare to challenge the establishment (whatever that
Phil> may be) who are the real achivers in life. Jules
Phil> Verne... Michael Angelo... Colombus... even Dr Stephen Hawkings
Phil> who's paraplegic and in a wheelchair was not taken seriously
Phil> until science had advanced itself to a level where a lot of his
Phil> unproved theories started to make sense to people. (who
Phil> originally thought they knew better!)
Aha! So now standards equal oppressive indoctrination, and breaking
with them for personal convenience (laziness?) is revolutionary and
brilliant? This is certainly a laugh!
The reason why we have standards for these things is that sen
standardoj mi ne komprenas vin, kaj vi ne komprenas min, kio estas
neproduktiva afero. Se cxiuj deziras havi iliajn proprajn komputilajn
metodojn, kio la aliajn ne komprenas, la interreto rapide estus aro da
malgrandajn interretetojn.
That's why! And that's why it makes absolutely no sense for you to
glorify your own lack of insight into the nature of this place we call
the Internet, and why faked martyrdom isn't the answer to any kind of
criticism.
Martin
- --
Homepage: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
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Lemming
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>>>>>> "Phil" == Phil Raqoon <ph...@raqoon.co.uk> writes:
>Phil> Does the name George Orwell & "1984" sound familiar? It those
>Phil> people who dare to challenge the establishment (whatever that
>Phil> may be) who are the real achivers in life. Jules
>Phil> Verne... Michael Angelo... Colombus... even Dr Stephen Hawkings
>Phil> who's paraplegic and in a wheelchair was not taken seriously
>Phil> until science had advanced itself to a level where a lot of his
>Phil> unproved theories started to make sense to people. (who
>Phil> originally thought they knew better!)
>
>Aha! So now standards equal oppressive indoctrination, and breaking
>with them for personal convenience (laziness?) is revolutionary and
>brilliant? This is certainly a laugh!
>
>The reason why we have standards for these things is that sen
>standardoj mi ne komprenas vin, kaj vi ne komprenas min, kio estas
>neproduktiva afero. Se cxiuj deziras havi iliajn proprajn komputilajn
>metodojn, kio la aliajn ne komprenas, la interreto rapide estus aro da
>malgrandajn interretetojn.
In English? (Please forgive me for being mono-lingual. I even tried
Rot13, but no joy.)
>
--
Lemming
Curiosity *may* have killed Schrödinger's cat.
Martin Christensen
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Lemming" == Lemming <l3m...@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> The reason why we have standards for these things is that sen
>> standardoj mi ne komprenas vin, kaj vi ne komprenas min, kio estas
>> neproduktiva afero. Se cxiuj deziras havi iliajn proprajn
>> komputilajn metodojn, kio la aliajn ne komprenas, la interreto
>> rapide estus aro da malgrandajn interretetojn.
Lemming> In English? (Please forgive me for being mono-lingual. I
Lemming> even tried Rot13, but no joy.)
That's the point. What just caused this breakdown in communication,
Lemming? Not a rhetorical question, by the way.
Martin
- --
Homepage: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
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Lemming
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>>>>>> "Lemming" == Lemming <l3m...@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>> The reason why we have standards for these things is that sen
>>> standardoj mi ne komprenas vin, kaj vi ne komprenas min, kio estas
>>> neproduktiva afero. Se cxiuj deziras havi iliajn proprajn
>>> komputilajn metodojn, kio la aliajn ne komprenas, la interreto
>>> rapide estus aro da malgrandajn interretetojn.
>Lemming> In English? (Please forgive me for being mono-lingual. I
>Lemming> even tried Rot13, but no joy.)
>
>That's the point. What just caused this breakdown in communication,
>Lemming? Not a rhetorical question, by the way.
I'm afraid that whooshing sound you just heard was your point going
right over my head.
Keith Willoughby
> > These goals can be acheived by everyone if we all stick to the
> > standards that they proscribe, or they can be acheived for some of
> > us... _if_ we happen to use this or that software, as Phil would have
> > us do. These standards doesn't limit the things possible on the web,
> > but makes them accessible to everyone who will comply with the
> > standards, as well as make the lives of web designers easier (write
> > once, works everywhere). However, this does destroy the wannabe
> > monopoly that Microsoft is trying to establish...
>
> Does the name George Orwell & "1984" sound familiar? It those people who
> dare to challenge the establishment (whatever that may be) who are the real
> achivers in life. Jules Verne... Michael Angelo... Colombus... even Dr
> Stephen Hawkings who's paraplegic and in a wheelchair was not taken
> seriously until science had advanced itself to a level where a lot of his
> unproved theories started to make sense to people. (who originally thought
> they knew better!)
The sole reason I just read that, and why you are able to read this,
is that our news clients, and all the intermediate news servers,
implement standards prescribed by RFCs. Standards are good. Ignoring
standards locks you out of the loop.
--
Keith Willoughby
This isn't TV, he isn't William Shatner
Graham Thurlwell
<Brian....@unforgettable.com> says...
<snip>
> I guess I won't waste my time looking for content on your site with my
> handheld PC. I suppose when somebody publishes a site for others to
> view, it's whatever's convenient for the publisher that's important.
> After all, the fact that it's published is just coincidental.
I do a fair bit of development work with HTML Designer on my Revo Plus. I
test the pages I've done on there with Opera 3.62 for EPOC - it does a
great job of rendering the pages, although some of the tables look a
little odd with the reduced screen width.
I suppose it helps that I've designed it so that the minimum browser
requirement is something that supports tables (only the system maps
require Javascript) and have little or no fixed-width tables.
It does look best in a resolution of 1024x768x256, but it's nice to see
that it works on a wide variety of browsers and systems. I was
particularly pleased with how good it looked on the Revo's greyscale
screen.
--
Graham 'Jades' Thurlwell
Jades' FFE Site: http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier First Encounters site on the net
Phil Raqoon
> Lemming? Not a rhetorical question, by the way.
The breakdown in communications occured because you opened your bucket
mouth! You delusionalistic condescending twerp!
(Sorry... just could NOT resist that one! hehehe)
Phil Raqoon
> Lemming? Not a rhetorical question, by the way.
The breakdown in communications occurred because you opened your bucket
mouth! You delusional, condescending, self-proclaimed lover of order &
establishment!
(Sorry... just could NOT resist that one! hehehe)
Raqoon (Fed)
Marek Powley
website needs to be written in all possible languages? That way it is
accessible to anyone who might stumble upon it.
...but wait - then you'd need to buy a computer for everybody in the world
without one to make your website accessible to everyone....
There has to be a limit to the level of accessibility that should be
attained or it just gets stupid.
Marek
Lemming <l3m...@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9bpbttssoelnc8q7a...@4ax.com...
Phil Raqoon
day of the week... but that doesn't mean to say we 'have' to follow
standards all the time. I say this because I am the kind of person who like
to break the mould and explore new possibilites that are not necessarily
constrained to any established standards!
Raqoon (Fed)
==========================
Web: www.raqoon.co.uk
Email: ph...@raqoon.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0)7989 658427
==========================
"Keith Willoughby" <ke...@flat222.org> wrote in message
news:877ktme...@cowtown.demon.co.uk...
Crayfish
> Crayfish <cray...@hotmail.com> writes:
> >> I guess I won't waste my time looking for content on your site with
> >> my handheld PC. I suppose when somebody publishes a site for
> >> others to view, it's whatever's convenient for the publisher that's
> >> important. After all, the fact that it's published is just
> >> coincidental.
> Crayfish> I think you're being a bit harsh. If a publisher chooses to
> Crayfish> publish an A3 book of art prints its up to him. They buyer
> Crayfish> shouldn't then complain that its awkward to read while
> Crayfish> walking down the street.
>
> From the W3C's entry page:
>
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) develops interoperable
> technologies (specifications, guidelines, software, and tools)
> to lead the Web to its full potential as a forum for
> information, commerce, communication, and collective
> understanding.
Er, I'm sorry, I fully respect that the w3c makes these standards for good
pupose. Being only an amateur web designer myself I do not have the time to
trawl through them all, I generally just try to make my sites work on as
many browsers as possible.
I would be interested, seeing as you appear to be an expert on them, where
in the standards it specifies that sites should not be designed with a
minimum screen resolution in mind? This is the only criticism I was
commenting upon.
For what its worth I think if Phil wants to make his site viewable with IE
only, although I disagree with this in principle, I think it is his own
decision. After all, he is only limiting the number of users that can view
his work and it is an amateur page. Professional pages obviously should
have more concern for industry standards.
> These goals can be acheived by everyone if we all stick to the
> standards that they proscribe, or they can be acheived for some of
> us... _if_ we happen to use this or that software, as Phil would have
> us do. These standards doesn't limit the things possible on the web,
> but makes them accessible to everyone who will comply with the
> standards, as well as make the lives of web designers easier (write
> once, works everywhere). However, this does destroy the wannabe
> monopoly that Microsoft is trying to establish...
>
> Yes, it's political. What kind of web do you want for us to have?
I think thats a far bigger issue than needs to be discussed in an Elite
newsgroup.
--
Crayfish
Martin Christensen
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Phil" == Phil Raqoon <ph...@raqoon.co.uk> writes:
Phil> If that's what you like then great Keith... I say "each to their
Phil> own" every day of the week... but that doesn't mean to say we
Phil> 'have' to follow standards all the time. I say this because I
Phil> am the kind of person who like to break the mould and explore
Phil> new possibilites that are not necessarily constrained to any
Phil> established standards!
Using the software you do now you're already well on your way to
shitting on established standards that most decent software developers
knows to respect.
What freedom has breaking from the standards bought you? What can it
buy you at most? The answer is simple: nothing the browser(s) you
target allows you to, and for the kind of thing you're doing here,
that isn't even worth mentioning. Frankly I propose that you don't
even know what following the standards will buy you in terms of ease
of web page creation and accessability.
Martin
- --
Homepage: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
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Martin Christensen
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Lemming" == Lemming <l3m...@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> That's the point. What just caused this breakdown in
>> communication, Lemming? Not a rhetorical question, by the way.
Lemming> I'm afraid that whooshing sound you just heard was your point
Lemming> going right over my head.
You didn't understand me because I used a language you didn't
know. The de facto language, like it or not (I happen to not like it),
in this place is English, and it makes perfect sense to follow the
standard, if you're interested in being heard by everybody or even
just many people. The more we depart from this standard, the more we
narrow our target audience. It was my guess that I am the only
Esperanto speaker on the group, so most likely my 'creative' ourburst
of 'freedom from the tyranny of standards' left me talking to myself.
Martin
- --
Homepage: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
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Marek Powley
It was actually surprisingly understanderble! I had a feeling it might be
Esperanto with it's Latinic and more broadly European feel without quite
looking like any "naturally occurring" Indo-European language.
Kiel oni diras en Esperanto?
Dankegon.
Marek
Martin Christensen <knightsofspam...@gvdnet.dk> wrote in message
news:87d73d8...@gvdnet.dk...
Adam Smith
newsgroup you're communicating with works because of NNTP (can't remember
what it stands for - doh!) or, if you're using Deja (Google, whatever)
HTML - both standards. Even MS crap (I know, I'm using outlook, I can't be
buggered to put a proper OS on 'til I get some kit - any day now, I'll win
the lottery...) uses standard, you just have no input to them. There's even
talk (read http://www.theregister.co.uk and go hunting for 'Kerberos' I
think) that MS will try and make Win.NET (or whatever it will be called)
unable to talk to other secure servers 'cos microsoft *refuses* to follow a
years-old industry standard. There are plenty of other examples - oldest one
I recall is the DR-DOS debacle circa 1990 (I think)
"Phil Raqoon" <ph...@raqoon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:K2oB7.259$P4.5...@news1.cableinet.net...
Martin Christensen
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Crayfish" == Crayfish <cray...@hotmail.com> writes:
Crayfish> Er, I'm sorry, I fully respect that the w3c makes these
Crayfish> standards for good pupose. Being only an amateur web
Crayfish> designer myself I do not have the time to trawl through them
Crayfish> all, I generally just try to make my sites work on as many
Crayfish> browsers as possible.
I would be lying if I called myself anything but an amateur as well,
but that's just amateur, ie. without the 'web designer' thing. 'Web
designers', like 'Java programmers' wear fancy clothes, use cheap
cologne and talk out their arse. :-) I'm just an old-school hacker
wannabe who ain't satisfied before things are Done Right(tm).
Crayfish> I would be interested, seeing as you appear to be an expert
Crayfish> on them, where in the standards it specifies that sites
Crayfish> should not be designed with a minimum screen resolution in
Crayfish> mind? This is the only criticism I was commenting upon.
<nitpickery>
'Standards' aren't documents, spanking new or old and dusty, but
rather 'things' that people agree on, whatever that may be. So, say,
the IEEE 802.3 specification for how Ethernets work is only a standard
because people actually use it. Therefore it is erroneous to say, as
people tend to, that Company Foo is coming up with a new standard for
Bar.
</nitpickery>
Anyway, to answer your question more directly, you should have a look
at the Web Accessability Initiative (http://www.w3.org/WAI). It deals
with all these matters.
My point of complaint isn't that it's bad to optimise things for one
use; it is that it is bad to narrow your scope unreasonably when it is
just as easy to create pretty sites that degrade gracefully and thus
can be used across a wide variety of devices. It's even easy to make
special layout rules for specific media: when printing stuff you don't
want navigation bars (or whatever) to show up, for instance, and
lovely flashy images and mezmerising colours aren't worth much to a
blind person, so you can specify suitable rules for braille or speech
devices. I was once contacted by a blind person who thought that the
content on my site sucked, but he wanted to thank me for making it so
easily accessible for people with non-standard devices, and that was
just by sticking to both the standards and the design guidelines, not
by any efforts to target non-visual media.
The easiest way to ensure that your web pages follow the given
standards is by having them validated, possibly at
http://validator.w3.org. You could also try writing your own HTML
validator, which is fairly easy, but takes at least a few days. The
W3C validator yields some pretty useful error messages.
Other than that, in the last year or two I've started to write my
pages semantically. By this I mean that I code such that the _meaning_
of the web page is emphasised in code (even if half of it is
invisible), and any layout details are handled in style sheets. This
makes it so much easier to extract information programmatically using
eg. Xlink and Xpointer.
Crayfish> For what its worth I think if Phil wants to make his site
Crayfish> viewable with IE only, although I disagree with this in
Crayfish> principle, I think it is his own decision. After all, he is
Crayfish> only limiting the number of users that can view his work and
Crayfish> it is an amateur page. Professional pages obviously should
Crayfish> have more concern for industry standards.
Professionals don't have more respect for industry standards, believe
me.
But what's the problem, really? It requires so little to code by the
standards, certainly no more than breaking them, and the result is
many times more useful.
On one hand there's no way of enforcing adherence to established
standards, and certainly not in Amateurland. On the other hand I think
that people are morally obligated to respect those standards, because
ignoring them means that mostly the same group of people is constantly
denied access to a lot of things. On one SSLUG (large Danish/Swedish
Linux user group) news group there's a blind guy, Thomas Sørensen,
who's ventured out into the brave new world of Linux. He's told many
tales of how horribly discriminated against he feels because arseholes
world-wide only focus on the majority, ignoring everyone else.
Frankly I feel a bit like Thomas: my preferred browser, Mozilla, can
go toe to toe with IE any day, but because it's detected, either by
scripting or by HTTP negotiation, that it's not IE, I am told to sod
off and get another browser. Some people are obviously more equal than
others.
>> Yes, it's political. What kind of web do you want for us to have?
Crayfish> I think thats a far bigger issue than needs to be discussed
Crayfish> in an Elite newsgroup.
Like anything better's going on... :-)
Martin
- --
Homepage: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
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Martin Christensen
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Marek" == Marek Powley <Marek....@my-deja.removeit.com> writes:
Marek> Kiel oni diras en Esperanto?
Ĉu kiel mi lernis, aŭ kial mi lernis? Mi ekhavis intereson en la
lingvo kiam mi legis, ke eksistas simplan lingvon kio nur havas dek
ses basajn gramatikajn regulojn, kaj mi, amuzate, diris al mian
germaninstruistinon, ke estu plej bona ke ni lernis esperanton ĉar la
lingvo pli simpla ol la germana estas. :-) Mi eklernis la lingvon, kaj
kreskis mian intereson. Sed mi ne uzis mian esperanton plej longtempe,
bedaŭrinde. Kaj kiel mi lernis? Simple: en lokala esperantoklubo. Mi
skribis artikolon pri internacia komunikado, kio eble povus interesigi
vin: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/articles/internationalcomm.html.
Amike,
Martin
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Martin Christensen
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Adam" == Adam Smith <Ad...@NOSPAMsmith10024.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
Adam> There's even talk (read http://www.theregister.co.uk and go
Adam> hunting for 'Kerberos' I think) that MS will try and make
Adam> Win.NET (or whatever it will be called) unable to talk to other
Adam> secure servers 'cos microsoft *refuses* to follow a years-old
Adam> industry standard. There are plenty of other examples - oldest
Adam> one I recall is the DR-DOS debacle circa 1990 (I think)
The DR-DOS thing goes back further, I think. Anyway, it makes perfect
business sense for Microsoft to do all this, because given their
monopoly on client-side operating systems they can effectively kill
off the competition by extending their monopoly to communication
protocols, first open, then patented protocols. Of course this kind of
behaviour is illegal, but they still do it.
Do a web search on 'embrace, extend, extinguish'.
Martin
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Adam Smith
you own MS shares) is that they may have inadvertently shot themselves in
the foot - win98SE does all I need for now (not thinking security at the
moment) and because it's a known target, OS coders can write for that, and
indeed have been doing so (samba) - if you don't need to upgrade, why
bother, especially if it lets you plug a free software box into the network
without too much hasslenews:87lmi0y...@gvdnet.dk...
Crayfish
To tell you the truth (and being a professional Analyst Programmer) this
kind of stuff bores the hell out of me. Everybody in the industry knows
whats going on with Microsoft and we all accept the need for uniformly
adhered to standards. I'd much rather see Elite IV wishlists on here, it
doesn't particularly bother me that DB will never read them.
I play computer games like these for a bit of escapism from that crap and I
must admit that I scanned rather than read your reply thoroughly.
Although... 3 days writing a HTML validator?? You have way too much time on
your hands.
I'd be a lot more interested if you could rephrase your discussion in some
way. Perhaps so that it was talking about the Federalists use of
non-standard BBSML in their space station bulletin board systems and how the
Imperialists are so loud in criticising this while at the same time ensuring
that their own space craft can only use proprietary engines. It would make
the whole debate a lot more interesting and on topic :-)
--
Crayfish
Phil Raqoon
> shitting on established standards that most decent software developers
> knows to respect.
You mean the DreamWeaver UltraDev 4.01 META tag which I placed in the header
of every webpage? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
!
I knew some poor idiot would fall for that one day and it just had to be a
know-it-all like Martin Christensen! Impressive to have there though isn't
it? You think I can afford THAT kind of software? Get real... I put it
there for the prestige purpose only!
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! (dickhead)
HAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
I thought I had taught you already NEVER to make assumptions? Now maybe you
WILL LEARN to keep your silly mouth shut!
==========================
Web: www.raqoon.co.uk
Email: ph...@raqoon.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0)7989 658427
==========================
"Martin Christensen" <knightsofspam...@gvdnet.dk> wrote in message
news:87hesp8...@gvdnet.dk...
Phil Raqoon
> know. The de facto language, like it or not (I happen to not like it),
> in this place is English, and it makes perfect sense to follow the
> standard, if you're interested in being heard by everybody or even
> just many people. The more we depart from this standard, the more we
> narrow our target audience. It was my guess that I am the only
> Esperanto speaker on the group, so most likely my 'creative' ourburst
> of 'freedom from the tyranny of standards' left me talking to myself.
Your talking about the fundamental ability to communicate and that is
COMPLETELY different to how a webpage is constructed... you are taking
things WAY out of context here. So in the same manner... Did you not
understand my webpages because some of them are written in SHTML? Or was it
JAVAscript that confused you?
The point you are trying to make is but a weak analogy of the subject in
hand. The point you are trying to make is also a hell of a lot more
complicated an issue, than established dimensions in the design industry.
Blowing things out of proportion for the sake of winning a debate is for
dreamers, bulshitters & exaggerators... and constitutes the final act of
'clutching at straws,' in my book!
Raqoon (Fed)
==========================
Web: www.raqoon.co.uk
Email: ph...@raqoon.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0)7989 658427
==========================
"Martin Christensen" <knightsofspam...@gvdnet.dk> wrote in message
news:87d73d8...@gvdnet.dk...
Martin Christensen
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Crayfish" == Crayfish <cray...@hotmail.com> writes:
Crayfish> To tell you the truth (and being a professional Analyst
Crayfish> Programmer) this kind of stuff bores the hell out of me.
Crayfish> Everybody in the industry knows whats going on with
Crayfish> Microsoft and we all accept the need for uniformly adhered
Crayfish> to standards.
Fair enough that it bores you. However, while it's true that everybody
accepts the need for uniformity, it is usually acheived by everybody
going the same broken way rather than settling on open
standards. That's where theory and practice depart, and I think it's
dangerous to ignore this.
Anyway, I'll shut up now. :-)
Martin
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Phil Raqoon
My head hurts thinking about your post! Sorry mate but I seriously only
understand this section:
> Phil, though I normally agree with you, I'd just like to point out that
the
> newsgroup you're communicating with works
and then you lost me completely..... I haven't a clue to what you're
referring - although NNTP rings a bell somewhere.
regards,
Raqoon (Fed)
==========================
Web: www.raqoon.co.uk
Email: ph...@raqoon.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0)7989 658427
==========================
"Adam Smith" <Ad...@NOSPAMsmith10024.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9r6ud6$a8n$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
Adam Smith
"Phil Raqoon" <ph...@raqoon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:EGUB7.1128$lp2.1...@news1.cableinet.net...
c
>> Using the software you do now you're already well on your way to
>> shitting on established standards that most decent software developers
>> knows to respect.
>
>You mean the DreamWeaver UltraDev 4.01 META tag which I placed in the header
>of every webpage? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
<ker-snip>
ignoring the rest of the argument I'll just say that ultradev4 is an
awesome bit of software.....
oh, and I have dave brabens bread bin....
ahem
Phil Raqoon
> awesome bit of software.....
Isn't it just? I used to use it at work... <long sigh>
==========================
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==========================
"c" <c@c.c> wrote in message
news:4dkjttoub0vmvgote...@4ax.com...
c
> > ignoring the rest of the argument I'll just say that ultradev4 is an
>> awesome bit of software.....
>
>Isn't it just? I used to use it at work... <long sigh>
why not download a copy from macromedia?
Phil Raqoon
i dunno... maybe because I can not justify the cost and it is well in
advance of what I really need.
==========================
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Email: ph...@raqoon.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0)7989 658427
==========================
"c" <c@c.c> wrote in message
news:k84uttg5uc7cn095v...@4ax.com...
Phil Raqoon
i dunno... maybe because I can not justify the cost and it is well in
advance of what I really need.
==========================
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Email: ph...@raqoon.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0)7989 658427
==========================
"c" <c@c.c> wrote in message
news:k84uttg5uc7cn095v...@4ax.com...
c
>> >Isn't it just? I used to use it at work... <long sigh>
>>
>> why not download a copy from macromedia?
>
>i dunno... maybe because I can not justify the cost and it is well in
>advance of what I really need.
work fast! you have 30 days!
Phil Raqoon
LOL... Brilliant theory, pity I'm not so good at the practical bit :¬)
c
>> work fast! you have 30 days!
>
>LOL... Brilliant theory, pity I'm not so good at the practical bit :¬)
ahem....