ce'nedra dies but garion lives
BigFodee
Draco Paladin
> ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
Alright... this is about the 10**5th time I've seen this thread and it is
starting to get to me. I don't have my books here with me (they are back
in Victoria right now :( ) so I might be wrong but:
Number 1) No where, IIRC, is it stated that Garion will live forever. If
anything Ce' will out live him, because she will live as long as her tree
does, and more than likly Garion will only live a normal life span (unless
of course Eriond interferes).
and for that matter.
Number 2) No where is it stated that even the deciples(sp?) of Aldur are
immortal. Yes, most of them have lived a long time, but IIRC, didn't
Belgarath say at one point that one lives for as long as it takes to get
what one needs to get done, done. He also added that what he needed to
get done has taken a long time.
Can someone tell me if I am remembering the books correctly, or am I going
(even more) crazy.
Draco Paladin
--
Mother is the name for GOD on the lips and
hearts of all children. - Eric Draven
Kamion
(Welcome to AFE, by the way. :) )
> ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
See section II.H of the alt.fan.eddings FAQ ("Immortality (a.k.a. The Other
Thread That Will Not Die)"), which can be found at:
http://thor.cam.ac.uk/~cjw44/eddings/faq/new.txt
Also see the article on this subject in the AFE Knowledge Repository ("Is
Garion immortal?"):
http://www.kryogenix.albatross.co.uk/afe/nvfaq-articles/garion-immortal.shtml
(Recombine this address back onto one line if it comes out broken.)
Kamion
--
http://thor.cam.ac.uk/~cjw44/eddings/
"Oh Danny Boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling,
From glen to glen, and down the mountainside ..."
Kelandriel
BigFodee wrote in message <19990417183151...@ng-fc1.aol.com>...
ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
Can you be certain of that? After all Aldur himself pointed out that no
marriage can survive such inequality when Polgara asked for durnik to be
restored to be her husband, I realize that Ce'Nedra
does not had the 2 lives thing going for her but it was clearly implied by
Aldur that there was a need for equality..perhaps Ce'nedra will have some
late awakening of "talent" or perhaps her Dryad blood will extend her life.
Titania
>ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
I'm sure I'm hacking over old territory at the moment, but my internet
access is screwed and I can't check that eminently helpful link provided.
Sorry in advance and avert your eyes now if likely to be annoyed at me.
All finished averting? Good, then we'll begin.
Garion isn't immortal. I'm sure it was more or less mentioned by Belgarath:
"People live as long as they need to." Garion doesn't really _need_ to live
any more, does he? Ce' (as mentioned often and loudly) will live as long as
her tree. Hence, Ce'nedra will vastly outlive Garion.
OK, you can stop averting now.
---
Titania
- Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are mostly ceremonial.
Ce'Nedra
<bigf...@aol.com> say:
>ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
Ce'Nedra is a dryad, and can live for at least 300 years. Garion is
human, and may not be immortal (nothing in the books explicitly says
that he is, or isn't) so might just live a "normal"[1] human lifetime.
The jury is still out on this one. :)
You might want to see some other theories that have been mentioned about
this in the alt.fan.eddings FAQ at :
http://thor.cam.ac.uk/~cjw44/eddings/faq/new.txt
--
Ce'Nedra - Queen of the World, Guardian of AFE.
[1] Whatever *that* is.... ;)
Kamion
> Ce'Nedra touched her fingers to her amulet, and heard BigFodee
> <bigf...@aol.com> say:
> >ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
>
> Ce'Nedra is a dryad, and can live for at least 300 years. Garion is
> human, and may not be immortal (nothing in the books explicitly says
> that he is, or isn't) so might just live a "normal"[1] human lifetime.
And in any case, even if he were immortal, it would only be in the sense of
being immune to old age: witness Belsambar, Belmakor, and Ctuchik.
Kamion
--
http://thor.cam.ac.uk/~cjw44/eddings/
"It's the one who won't be taken who cannot seem to give,
And the soul afraid of dying that never learns to live."
Adara
>Can you be certain of that? After all Aldur himself pointed out that no
>marriage can survive such inequality when Polgara asked for durnik to be
>restored to be her husband, I realize that Ce'Nedra
>does not had the 2 lives thing going for her but it was clearly implied by
>Aldur that there was a need for equality..perhaps Ce'nedra will have some
>late awakening of "talent" or perhaps her Dryad blood will extend her life.
Was the inequality that one spouse would be "talented" and one
wouldn't? Ce'Nedra couldn't use tWatW, so their marriage is
inequal regardless of their ages. Maybe Aldur only meant that a
marriage couldn't survive if the wife was more "powerful" than
her husband. (male chauvenism at its best).
Adara of Algaria
.sig lost in the maze of the Stronghold
(or under the clutter of three infants)
Ce'Nedra
<moo...@rpi.edu> say:
>
>Was the inequality that one spouse would be "talented" and one
>wouldn't? Ce'Nedra couldn't use tWatW, so their marriage is
>inequal regardless of their ages. Maybe Aldur only meant that a
>marriage couldn't survive if the wife was more "powerful" than
>her husband. (male chauvenism at its best).
Ah, but going by a comment in PtS, Ce'Nedra is more powerful than
Garion.... he might be incredibly talented, and have the power to do
what he wants, but she's got him wrapped around her pretty little
finger, and she can make him do what *she* wants. ;)
(based on Polgara's realisation that even with her power, Beldaran the
first was more powerful because of her love for her. And also coz she
was the dominant twin.) :)
--
Ce'Nedra - Queen of the World, Guardian of AFE.
"If I could, I might even look at Garion in the way you seem to
think I've been looking - even thought he's absolutely impossible.
The way things are, though, all he can ever be is a friend."
Ce'Nedra
<pal...@uvic.ca> say:
(Snip)
>
>Can someone tell me if I am remembering the books correctly, or am I going
>(even more) crazy.
You're right. :)
Queen Ametica
Can you be certain of that? After all Aldur himself pointed out that
no marriage can survive such inequality when Polgara asked for durnik
to be restored to be her husband, I realize that Ce'Nedra does not
had the 2 lives thing going for her but it was clearly implied by Aldur that
there was a need for equality..perhaps Ce'nedra will have some late
awakening of "talent" or perhaps her Dryad blood will extend her life.
wouldn't? Ce'Nedra couldn't use tWatW, so their marriage is inequal
regardless of their ages. Maybe Aldur only meant that a marriage
couldn't survive if the wife was more "powerful" than her husband. (male
chauvenism at its best).
love me anymore" absolutely disarms Garion, no matter how powerful he is.
And really, I think Ce' is as strong-willed (stubborn;) as Garion is.
Anyway, Garion will live long enough to see Eriond as God of the World, as
the spirit of Light told him so. And since Ce'Nedra is Queen of the World,
she will, too, I think. IMO neither will outlive the other.
Queen Ametica
-**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?a ****-
Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser - FREE -
Queen Ametica
In article <371ac...@clarion.carno.net.au>, Titania
<s315...@bohm.anu.edu.au> wrote:
Hence, Garion will live "for as long as [he] needs to", which
shouldn't really be much longer at all...
He is going to have *lots* of daughters...
and see Eriond as God of the World. That's probably going to take a long
time.:)
-SpiritWolf-
BigFodee wrote:
> ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
Okay,
I'm going to go out on a limb here - i hope it doesn't break
Many people have posted below that Garion is not in fact Immortal because
it is never said, or implied. I would have to disagree.
Take if you will, the little club foot we all love to luagh at, the
proclaimer of the three demigods of Aldur ( 8) ) I am of course talking
of Senji. Senji was not a discpliple of Aldur, Torak or any other god.
Yet he lived a remarkably long time, and probably remains alive to this
day ( i'm not crazy, you know i meant in the books ).
So we can basically say that Garion is gonna live for a long time.
Ce`Nedra - Basically, She is a dryad. She will live for as long as her
tree, Also she is the Step-daughter of Belgarath , most facoured of
Aldur's Disciple and very very close with The current god of the
Angarak's. We can be quite sure that she will be around for along time.
I know this topic was raised in the Faq. I just want to get it off the
board asap. Sorry if my views conflict with yours...
-SpiritWolf-
Titania
<7fduh2$ou3$1...@eplet.mira.net.au>...
>
>I'm going to go out on a limb here - i hope it doesn't break
>Many people have posted below that Garion is not in fact Immortal because
>it is never said, or implied. I would have to disagree.
>
>Take if you will, the little club foot we all love to luagh at, the
>proclaimer of the three demigods of Aldur ( 8) ) I am of course talking
>of Senji. Senji was not a discpliple of Aldur, Torak or any other god.
>Yet he lived a remarkably long time, and probably remains alive to this
>day ( i'm not crazy, you know i meant in the books ).
>
>So we can basically say that Garion is gonna live for a long time.
I think this is another example of "people live as long as they need to".
Senji needed to be alive to talk to Garion and friends. He probably carked
it as soon as they left the room. Well, maybe not, but you see my point?
Hence, Garion will live "for as long as [he] needs to", which shouldn't
really be much longer at all...
---
Senji
>really be much longer at all...
He is going to have *lots* of daughters...
--
Jonathan D. Amery, http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html #####
"Senji, a fifteenth century practitioner of alchemy at the o__#######
university in the imperial city was notorious for his ineptitude" \'#######
Second sub-chairman of the Melcene Church of Eriond ecumenism committee.
Titania
>I heard Senji say:
>In article <371ac...@clarion.carno.net.au>, Titania
><s315...@bohm.anu.edu.au> wrote:
> Hence, Garion will live "for as long as [he] needs to", which
>shouldn't really be much longer at all...
>
> He is going to have *lots* of daughters...
>time.:)
*sigh* Well, if we're going to get like this...
Define lots. One daughter a year for ten years. Or twenty, or however many.
Then he's dead. Ce' lives for the next 250 years lonely and bitter... or
not, but you get my point.
Eriond already is God of the World. That's him officially. Just 'cause
it's not him actually yet doesn't mean squat.
*grin* - Third speaker on my debating teams for five years. Never lost a
negative case. Rebuttal is my speciality.
Queen Ametica
with Eriond and lives at least long enough
for Eriond to convert all the people. As Queen of the World... well, if that
comes to actuality, it's really going to take
a long time, since Belgarion doesn't believe that world was ment to rule by
one man... (nor jointly by one couple).
Maybe they die when one of their daughters is a queen in each kingdom in the
world and Ce' is the queen of the
dryads and Eriond their God... That's my vision where it will end for them.
Queen Ametica
Queen Ametica
and may not be immortal (nothing in the books explicitly says that he is, or
isn't) so
might just live a "normal"[1] human lifetime.
Senji, who is... some two thousand, just because he knows tW&tW. That's if
he does
not kill himself or some one else doesn't kill him... And Belgarath is seven
thousand... He's also a part wolf and wolves live as long as they choose to
live,
according to Poledra in BtS. Both still live. Eriond might also decide to
take some steps just to make sure that neither outlives the other...
Queen Ametica
"I'm pretty sure that Drosta dies before I do..."
Ce'Nedra
<sluh...@netscape.net> say:
>Oh, but Garion is a sorcerer and thus will have quite a long life. Witness
>Senji, who is... some two thousand, just because he knows tW&tW.
No, Senji lived that long because the prophecy extended his life until
he could fulfill his task. (passing on information to Belgarath etc)
> That's if
>he does
>not kill himself or some one else doesn't kill him... And Belgarath is seven
>thousand... He's also a part wolf
Do you know something we don't?
Belgarath was born human. To a human mother. And as far as we know, to a
human father. (but like I said, we don't know. In silly moments, I have
speculated that Aldur was his dad.....)
He is no more part wolf, than Polgara is part owl, or Beldin is part
falcon.
Maybe I just have a different definition of 'part' than you though. :)
>Eriond might also decide to
>take some steps just to make sure that neither outlives the other...
That's what I think will happen.....
Yorthen the High
> but IIRC, didn't
> Belgarath say at one point that one lives for as long as it takes to get
> what one needs to get done, done. He also added that what he needed to
> get done has taken a long time.
I don't think that it applyes any more. Since all these EVENTS have taken
place there is nothing more that has to be done.
Should everybody die now?
I think that he ment that the purpose wouldn't let anybody die befor they had
done what they needed to.
I'm not sure that you have to be a discipline of Aldur to be imortal, I think
that all you have to do is to use tWatW long enough.
Yorthen the High
AFE dg+>++ ka+>++ d>+ m-> ot+ b->++ tq->++ i c>+ l afec+ a++> f->-- fsBM>ET
ICQ #24383940
Why drink and drive
when you can smoke and fly
Yorthen the High
> And really, I think Ce' is as strong-willed (stubborn;) as Garion is.
More!
>
> Anyway, Garion will live long enough to see Eriond as God of the World, as
>
> the spirit of Light told him so. And since Ce'Nedra is Queen of the World,
> she will, too, I think. IMO neither will outlive the other.
Hope so, after reading "If a tree dies in the forest" (was that correct?) by Ce'
I was kind of depressed by the thought that she would die before Garion.
Yorthen the High
> "People live as long as they need to." Garion doesn't really _need_ to live
> any more, does he?
Does Ce'Nedra?
--
Yorthen the High
> ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
Why didn't you say you was a newbie, I almost missed you (saved by
Kamion)
Welcome!
Aquarius
>Ce'Nedra touched her fingers to her amulet, and heard Queen Ametica
><sluh...@netscape.net> say:
>>Oh, but Garion is a sorcerer and thus will have quite a long life. Witness
>>Senji, who is... some two thousand, just because he knows tW&tW.
>
>No, Senji lived that long because the prophecy extended his life until
>he could fulfill his task. (passing on information to Belgarath etc)
*ahem*cough*guesswork*cough*
Admittedly, we know that sorcery doesn't by definition prolong life,
given the Rivan Line, but that doesn't mean that it was definitely the
Prophecy, unless I've forgotten something?
Aq.
AFE dg++ ka++>+++ d+> m+>++ ot+>--- b++ tq+>++
i++ c- l++ afec++ a? f++ fsB>N
"Gibberish is unintelligible sounds. Even Aq, on a
bad day, does better than that." -- Zubrette, afe
Kamion
> I'm not sure that you have to be a disciple of Aldur to be imortal, I think
> that all you have to do is to use tWatW long enough.
Not all Grolims are immortal, though, not even those with "talent".
Kamion
--
http://thor.cam.ac.uk/~cjw44/eddings/
"... and by God I *KNOW* what this network is for, and you can't have
it." - Russ Allbery (http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/writing/rant.html)
geran
>
> ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
If i remember correctly, Belgarath mentioned that obeying the prophecy
bring happiness and rewards.As Garion is one of the main character in
the fight between the LP and DP, maybe living happily forever wiht
Ce'Nedra will be his reward.
Geran
Murlainn
other? (Not meant to say He'll kill one of them when the first dies, but He
does seem to have a little bit of power here and there, if I recall
correctly)
--
-Murlainn
" I am an enigma, wrapped in a mystery, smothered in secret sauce... "
$jxb488$@psu.edu
(remove the $s to mail me :)
<snip>
Murlainn
> If i remember correctly, Belgarath mentioned that obeying the prophecy
> bring happiness and rewards.As Garion is one of the main character in
> the fight between the LP and DP, maybe living happily forever wiht
> Ce'Nedra will be his reward.
Who would want to spend an eternity with Ce'Nedra... Or anyone for that
matter?
**Glances at Ce', and ducks back into the newbie bin to hide**
Titania
>> Garion isn't immortal. I'm sure it was more or less mentioned by
Belgarath:
>> "People live as long as they need to." Garion doesn't really _need_ to
live
>> any more, does he?
>
>Does Ce'Nedra?
She lives as long as her tree, remember.
Titania
>BigFodee wrote:
>>
>> ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
>
>bring happiness and rewards.As Garion is one of the main character in
>the fight between the LP and DP, maybe living happily forever wiht
>Ce'Nedra will be his reward.
...living happily with Ce'Nedra forever....
/me goes off to ponder how this concept could be a reward.
*grin* Nah, I get your point. And they probably would be happy. Fight
heaps, make up heaps, generally annoy everyone. Yeah, that would be fun.
:-)
Izzy
for a few hundred years, granted, he did have a task to preform. You know
what I think? Hmm Hmm??? That Eriond will let them all live as long as
they like! Period. End of discussion! *cackles like a madman*
Izzy
--
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy"-Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5
Chris
>The Citadel resounded to the voice of Yorthen the High:
>
>> I'm not sure that you have to be a disciple of Aldur to be imortal, I think
>> that all you have to do is to use tWatW long enough.
>
>Not all Grolims are immortal, though, not even those with "talent".
And what of Arshag?
I won't go into it because I think its been done before on AFE, but he
sure does throw a spanner in the works for theories of "immortality".
I reckon it all comes back to Grat's argument in BtS that we create
ourselves.
Chris
Titania
>Then explain the clubfoot dude, all he did was use the tWatW and he lived
>for a few hundred years, granted, he did have a task to preform. You know
>what I think? Hmm Hmm??? That Eriond will let them all live as long as
>they like! Period. End of discussion! *cackles like a madman*
1st part: you argued yourself out of a case, so I won't address that.
2nd part: You know what I think? Eriond will be a responsible God and not
meddle with that sort of thing. Didn't Belgarath teach you anything about
meddling with huge forces?
Titania
>Kamion <kam...@citadel.riva.net> wrote:
>>The Citadel resounded to the voice of Yorthen the High:
>>
>>> I'm not sure that you have to be a disciple of Aldur to be imortal, I
think
>>> that all you have to do is to use tWatW long enough.
>>
>>Not all Grolims are immortal, though, not even those with "talent".
>
>And what of Arshag?
Not to be obtuse (I've mentioned my problem with names and obscure points)
but who's Arshag? And what of him? I'm confused!
B.H.H. Mulder (Q)
>
> Ce'Nedra spoo'd forth the following:
>
> >Ce'Nedra touched her fingers to her amulet, and heard Queen Ametica
> ><sluh...@netscape.net> say:
> >>Oh, but Garion is a sorcerer and thus will have quite a long life. Witness
> >>Senji, who is... some two thousand, just because he knows tW&tW.
> >
> >No, Senji lived that long because the prophecy extended his life until
> >he could fulfill his task. (passing on information to Belgarath etc)
>
> *ahem*cough*guesswork*cough*
>
> Admittedly, we know that sorcery doesn't by definition prolong life,
> given the Rivan Line, but that doesn't mean that it was definitely the
> Prophecy, unless I've forgotten something?
Is it so that all in the Rivan line activated their Will ?
?
Q
--
AFE m> ot++>++ b->- tq- i- c- l-- afec! a? f fsBM>BM
Clair Collins
> Who would want to spend an eternity with Ce'Nedra... Or anyone for that
> matter?
> **Glances at Ce', and ducks back into the newbie bin to hide**
You can come under my FPB if you want [1]
*grins evilly*
"Oh? Didn't I tell you that Ce' was there with a selection of men [2]?
--CLC
[1] - Flame Proof Bed
[2] Do you think men are like chocolates - some filled with strawberry
fondant - others with caramel, others with praline....?
I'll have a coffee fondant one, please.
Christy Ambrose
>
> BigFodee wrote:
> >
> > ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
>
> If i remember correctly, Belgarath mentioned that obeying the prophecy
> bring happiness and rewards.As Garion is one of the main character in
> the fight between the LP and DP, maybe living happily forever wiht
> Ce'Nedra will be his reward.
>
I would also like to point out that at the end of seeress that the LP
told garion that he need to start expanding the nurcery, that he was
going to have a good many daughters with Ce'Nedra.
Yorthen the High
> Yorthen the High wrote in message <371B7E60...@geocities.com>...
> >> Garion isn't immortal. I'm sure it was more or less mentioned by
> Belgarath:
> >> "People live as long as they need to." Garion doesn't really _need_ to
> live
> >> any more, does he?
> >
> >Does Ce'Nedra?
>
> She lives as long as her tree, remember.
>
> ---
> Titania
> - Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are mostly ceremonial.
Yes, but does her tree have to do something?
People did live as long as they had to, but since all those EVENTS are over no
one have to do something, but they still live on.
Yorthen the High
Is there any special bin for newbies?
Did I ever spend some time there?
Yorthen the High
> ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
I have this new (I lthink) theory.
Maybe Garion will use tWatW to tie his life to the tree to. So that he
dies when the tree does.
Ce'Nedra
<$jxb488$@psu.edu> say:
>>
>> If i remember correctly, Belgarath mentioned that obeying the prophecy
>> bring happiness and rewards.As Garion is one of the main character in
>> the fight between the LP and DP, maybe living happily forever wiht
>> Ce'Nedra will be his reward.
>
>matter?
[Ce' notes Murlainn's name down in the Big Black Book of People to be
viciously pouted at on a later date]
:P
;)
Ce'Nedra
<Yor...@geocities.com> say:
><snip>
>
>> And really, I think Ce' is as strong-willed (stubborn;) as Garion is.
>
>More!
Definately. She's been trained in the art of getting her way from a
small child, whereas Garion has been trainded in the way of females
getting their own way since being a small child too. :)
>> the spirit of Light told him so. And since Ce'Nedra is Queen of the World,
>> she will, too, I think. IMO neither will outlive the other.
>Hope so, after reading "If a tree dies in the forest" (was that correct?)
Very nearly. :)
"If a tree dies in the Woods...."
(and you can add the "does it make a sound?" bit if you really must) ;)
> by
>Ce'
>I was kind of depressed by the thought that she would die before Garion.
Sorry. :)
It was written near mid-winter... and winter gets me down. :)
--
Ce'Nedra - has distinct hippy tendencies in that she can't resist the sun. :)
(and has some dodgy tie-dyed clothes hiding in her wardrobe too) ;)
Ce'Nedra
>> "People live as long as they need to." Garion doesn't really _need_ to live
>> any more, does he?
>
>Does Ce'Nedra?
People who ask that kind of question, usually find themselves ducking an
airborne display of fine china..... :P
Kamion
> Titania wrote:
> > Yorthen the High wrote in message <371B7E60...@geocities.com>...
> > >Titania wrote:
> > >> Garion isn't immortal. I'm sure it was more or less mentioned by
> > >> Belgarath: "People live as long as they need to." Garion doesn't really
> > >> _need_ to live any more, does he?
> > >
> > >Does Ce'Nedra?
> >
> > She lives as long as her tree, remember.
>
> Yes, but does her tree have to do something?
A fair number of trees (such as oaks) naturally live noticeably longer than
humans.
> People did live as long as they had to, but since all those EVENTS are over no
> one have to do something, but they still live on.
Doesn't mean they have to instantly die, though. It would be rather nasty of
the LP to instantly kill everyone as soon as it won the CHOICE.
And we *don't know* they have nothing left to do. After all, the universe
still has a Purpose, and it might just want a few instruments regardless of
whether any other conflicting Purpose happens to be wandering around.
Kamion
--
http://thor.cam.ac.uk/~cjw44/eddings/
"Don't cry for me, Isle of Riva;
The truth is I'll always love you ..."
Ce'Nedra
<pol...@gladden-fields.demon.co.uk> say:
>[2] Do you think men are like chocolates - some filled with strawberry
>fondant - others with caramel, others with praline....?
[Ce' picks up her sister's dissecting kit and grins thoughtfully..]
I don't know. Let's find out......
;)
Rob Kerr
> She lives as long as her tree, remember.
>
Y'know, I have always thought it appropriate that Ce'Nedra had a tree up
which she could disappear.
Anheg
--
A truly wise man never plays leap-frog with a unicorn. - Old Chinese
Rob Kerr
>
> Besides, do you really think Eriond would let one live in grief over the
> other? (Not meant to say He'll kill one of them when the first dies, but He
> does seem to have a little bit of power here and there, if I recall
> correctly)
He'd probably do a Zeus, and turn them both into trees at the moment
one of them dies (hey - could be an explanation for the myriad
daughters, if you stretch it somewhat).
Ghnomb
<Ce'Ne...@brad-camb.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Ce'Nedra touched her fingers to her amulet, and heard Clair Collins
><pol...@gladden-fields.demon.co.uk> say:
>
>>[2] Do you think men are like chocolates - some filled with strawberry
>>fondant - others with caramel, others with praline....?
>
>[Ce' picks up her sister's dissecting kit and grins thoughtfully..]
>
>I don't know. Let's find out......
That's what I like about dryads - succulent outside with a sweet
chocolatey centre.
Ghnomb - eater of not just Man-Things.
Aquarius
>Aquarius wrote:
>> Admittedly, we know that sorcery doesn't by definition prolong life,
>> given the Rivan Line, but that doesn't mean that it was definitely the
>> Prophecy, unless I've forgotten something?
>
>Is it so that all in the Rivan line activated their Will ?
Not all of them, but some of them did, and Belgarath points out that
almost all the line have been talented to some extent...
Queen Ametica
Now that I think of it, if one sorcerer can apply immortality to another,
that gives us a clue as to how Aldur and Torak did it to their disciples.
Notice that Grat'
never really paid much attention to his longevity until he reached about
300 years old. Sounds the planting of an implicit belief to me...
And just where did Senji the Clubfoot got the belief?
Somewhere in Mallorean...
"Oh, my God" Senji said.
"Stop saying that" Belgarath snapped. "You don't even know who your God is".
Queen Ametica
"Nadrak women live longer than Nadrak men because the men forget to keep
their hands to themselves".
-**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?a ****-
Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser - FREE -
Belgarath
He was kept alove so that Belgarath could find him and question him.
--
Belgarath
Remove despam and I'll read your e-mail
Queen Ametica <sluh...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:KseT2.6098$_c.2213925@WReNphoon3...
Dom Wynn
Clair Collins wrote in message
<7fijh3$3p6$3...@gladden-fields.demon.co.uk>...
>
>[2] Do you think men are like chocolates - some filled with strawberry
>fondant - others with caramel, others with praline....?
Whereas women are like the nutty ones in your chocolate box - and the
rest of the analogy I leave to your imaginations.....
Dom
Dom Wynn
>>Hope so, after reading "If a tree dies in the forest" (was that
correct?)
>Very nearly. :)
>
>"If a tree dies in the Woods...."
...
it's prolly because the Wood of Dryads Lumber Corp has chopped it
down....
Dom
(lights one of his mass produced 'swan-dryad special' matches and
watches it merrily burn away)
Tanngnost
>BigFodee wrote:
>>
>> ce'nedra is mortal and will die. belgarion will live forever. bummer
>
>If i remember correctly, Belgarath mentioned that obeying the prophecy
>bring happiness and rewards.As Garion is one of the main character in
>the fight between the LP and DP, maybe living happily forever wiht
>Ce'Nedra will be his reward.
Is this some strange meaning of the word 'reward' I've not heard of before?
;-P
(_)] Have fun,
^Tanngnost...
--
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++ MELON MELON MELON +++ Redo From Start +++
+++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++
AFE dg-- ka+ d+ m ot+ b- i? c I- afec? a? f fs-
Chris
>Chris wrote in message <7fh5r3$th6$1...@towncrier.cc.monash.edu.au>...
>>Kamion <kam...@citadel.riva.net> wrote:
>>>
>but who's Arshag? And what of him? I'm confused!
Sorry, your not obtuse, I'm just vague. Arshag (if I have spelled the
name correctly), was a grolim of mediocre ability who raised an illusory
demon lord in DLoK. Polgara punished him by making him immortal, and
enforcing the belief upon him that nobody would ever believe him.
I guess he is bit tangential to this thread, but I think immortality (for
want of a more accurate word), stems from the self-belief of the
characters who possess the WatW. That's why Pol stays as a 25 year old,
and Grat' and co become grizzly old men.
So, Polgara made Arshag create his own immortality. And because he can't
undo it, he will live forever and ever and ever.
In fact, Arshag will probably outlive Grat' himself.
Now that I think of it, if one sorcerer can apply immortality to another,
that gives us a clue as to how Aldur and Torak did it to their
disciples. Notice that Grat' never really paid much attention to his
longevity until he reached about 300 years old. Sounds the planting of an
implicit belief to me...
Chris
Chris
>>> Admittedly, we know that sorcery doesn't by definition prolong life,
>>> given the Rivan Line, but that doesn't mean that it was definitely the
>>> Prophecy, unless I've forgotten something?
>>
>>Is it so that all in the Rivan line activated their Will ?
>
>Not all of them, but some of them did, and Belgarath points out that
>almost all the line have been talented to some extent...
I reckon "immortality" or long life is meant to be about self-belief, or
the will of another imposed upon you. It is has very little to actually
do with sorcery, apart from the fact those with "will" are the only ones
with necessary power of belief to do it, and even that isn't enough
unless you are really good at it.
Refer to what Polgara did to Arshag and Grat's comment that we create
ourselves. I think I have repeated much of this in another reply.
oh well.
Chris
Chris
Maybe the women are the ones that look nice and soft on the outside, but
turn out to be hard and chewy and cause the loss of a few teeth while
their at it.
Now THAT'S an analogy.
Chris
- grabbing his teeth and running while he can.
Chris
>And just where did Senji the Clubfoot got the belief?>Somewhere in Mallorean...>"Oh, my God" Senji said.>"Stop saying that" Belgarath snapped. "You don't even know who your God is".
Well, I guess that puts a bit of hole in my argument that GOD'S are the
only ones that can instill the belief of will necessary to achieve superhuman
capacities, but (like Belgarath in alias) mentioned, the LP could have been
behind it if Senji was important to the game. I stick stubbornly to my argument
that the world of Bel/Mal is heavily grounded in what people believe they are
capable of doing. Afterall, didn't Grat' say that tWatW is inherent in everyone,
but that only a few manage to recognise it and develop it.
Ask and ye shall receive. Seek and ye shall find.
>"Nadrak women live longer than Nadrak men because the men forget to keep
>their hands to themselves".
Just out of interest, where do Nadrak children come from in this scenario? ;)
Chris
Belgarath
I would imagine that Senji was immortal because of the Prophecy of Light.
He was kept alive so that Belgarath could find and question him.
--
Belgarath
Remove despam and I'll read your e-mail
Belgarath <belg...@despam.email.com> wrote in message
news:YDeT2.412$gD1...@news.goodnet.com...
| I would imagine that Senji was immortal because of the Prophesy of Light.
| He was kept alove so that Belgarath could find him and question him.
|
| --
|
| Belgarath
| Remove despam and I'll read your e-mail
|
|
| Queen Ametica <sluh...@netscape.net> wrote in message
| news:KseT2.6098$_c.2213925@WReNphoon3...
| | Chris wrote:
| | Now that I think of it, if one sorcerer can apply immortality to
another,
| | that gives us a clue as to how Aldur and Torak did it to their
disciples.
| | Notice that Grat'
| | never really paid much attention to his longevity until he reached
| about
| | 300 years old. Sounds the planting of an implicit belief to me...
| |
| | And just where did Senji the Clubfoot got the belief?
| | Somewhere in Mallorean...
| | "Oh, my God" Senji said.
| | "Stop saying that" Belgarath snapped. "You don't even know who your God
| is".
| |
| |
| | Queen Ametica
| | "Nadrak women live longer than Nadrak men because the men forget to keep
| | their hands to themselves".
| |
| |
| |
Kamion
> Chris wrote:
>
> > Now that I think of it, if one sorcerer can apply immortality to another,
> > that gives us a clue as to how Aldur and Torak did it to their disciples.
> > Notice that Grat' never really paid much attention to his longevity
> > until he reached about 300 years old. Sounds the planting of an
> > implicit belief to me...
Similarly, I suspect, Polgara's transformation of Salmissra. I like this
idea ...
> And just where did Senji the Clubfoot got the belief?
>
> Somewhere in Mallorean...
(SoD)
> "Oh, my God" Senji said.
> "Stop saying that" Belgarath snapped. "You don't even know who your God is".
"But you will, Senji," Garion said in a voice that was not his own, "and
when you have found Him, you will follow Him to the end of your days."
(from memory, but probably fairly close)
This sounds like another example, much like the case of Pelath, of the "new
voice" reaching back in time to set up the conditions and instruments it
knew its New God of Angarak would need.
Senji as Eriond's second Disciple?
Kamion
--
http://thor.cam.ac.uk/~cjw44/eddings/
"Logic is about flogging a dead horse" - Larry Paulson
Senji
Kamion <kam...@earthling.No.Spam.net> wrote:
>The Citadel resounded to the voice of Queen Ametica:
>
>> Chris wrote:
>>
>> > Now that I think of it, if one sorcerer can apply immortality to another,
>> > that gives us a clue as to how Aldur and Torak did it to their disciples.
>> > Notice that Grat' never really paid much attention to his longevity
>> > until he reached about 300 years old. Sounds the planting of an
>> > implicit belief to me...
>
>Similarly, I suspect, Polgara's transformation of Salmissra. I like this
>idea ...
>
>> And just where did Senji the Clubfoot got the belief?
>>
>> Somewhere in Mallorean...
>
>(SoD)
>
>> "Oh, my God" Senji said.
>> "Stop saying that" Belgarath snapped. "You don't even know who your God is".
>
>"But you will, Senji," Garion said in a voice that was not his own, "and
>when you have found Him, you will follow Him to the end of your days."
>(from memory, but probably fairly close)
Very close really.
>This sounds like another example, much like the case of Pelath, of the "new
>voice" reaching back in time to set up the conditions and instruments it
>knew its New God of Angarak would need.
>
>Senji as Eriond's second Disciple?
<g>
--
Jonathan D. Amery, http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html #####
"I think I was born during the fifteenth century", Senji replied. o__#######
"what year is it now?"/"Fifty-three seventy-nine", Garion told him.\'#######
"Already?" Senji said mildly. "Where does the time go?" - SoD, David Eddings
prala
While bullying Urgit, Chris I hear Chris say:
>and Grat' and co become grizzly old men.
hmmm. If the grizzly old man look is fashionable in Eriondia, then 'Grat
must be Naomi Cambell.
Prala
Adara
>Similarly, I suspect, Polgara's transformation of Salmissra. I like this
>idea ...
Maybe Salmissra's immortality came from Issa, after he told Polgara
not to kill her?
Adara of Algaria
.sig lost in the maze of the Stronghold
(or under the clutter of three infants)
Pasha
|Ce'Nedra - has distinct hippy tendencies in that she can't resist the sun. :)
|(and has some dodgy tie-dyed clothes hiding in her wardrobe too) ;)
Hippy-goth. Thats a new one on me. :-)
--
-Pasha _____
"I'll bet you call all girls love" |\|/|
"No, just the ones that I love" | |\|
Nathan
wrote:
>Murlainn wrote:
>>
>> Besides, do you really think Eriond would let one live in grief over the
>> other? (Not meant to say He'll kill one of them when the first dies, but He
>> does seem to have a little bit of power here and there, if I recall
>> correctly)
>
>He'd probably do a Zeus, and turn them both into trees at the moment
>one of them dies (hey - could be an explanation for the myriad
>daughters, if you stretch it somewhat).
Just graft a branch from Ce'nedra's tree to the Tree in the Vale. Then
at lest some part of Ce'Nedra's tree never dies
Nathan
wrote:
>Sorry, your not obtuse, I'm just vague. Arshag (if I have spelled the
>name correctly), was a grolim of mediocre ability who raised an illusory
>demon lord in DLoK. Polgara punished him by making him immortal, and
>enforcing the belief upon him that nobody would ever believe him.
Even more tangental... Could Arshag turn his curse into a blessing? If
he runs around saying "I am not your Master" would people start to
dis-believe that, and think that he is is their Master? Maybe he could
start a worldwide Anti-Eroind movement if he goes up to every person
on earth and says "Eroind is a good and kindly God, much better then
Torak" Maybe he could say to the universe "the Orb is not right in
front of me and it hates me" And then it appears in front of him and
it likes him?
Or maybe he should just find Polgara again, and say "I am not reformed
one bit, and I still deserve this punishment" to her :)
Bret J. McGinty
<Snip>
>And just where did Senji the Clubfoot got the belief?
>Somewhere in Mallorean...
>"Oh, my God" Senji said.
>"Stop saying that" Belgarath snapped. "You don't even know who your God is".
>
>
>Queen Ametica
And after that meeting, while Beldin and Belgarath were talking about it, one
of them commented that Senji's self-discovery of the WatW was "consistent with
every other case we've come across." But no where else in the books does it
ever mention any of these others, *or* what their religious affiliations were.
Talen
Ce'Nedra
<fun...@armory.com> say:
>On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Ce'Nedra wrote:
>
>|Ce'Nedra - has distinct hippy tendencies in that she can't resist the sun. :)
>|(and has some dodgy tie-dyed clothes hiding in her wardrobe too) ;)
>
>Hippy-goth. Thats a new one on me. :-)
In the current climate [1], it's wiser than wearing black
trenchcoats......
--
Ce'Nedra - Queen of the World, Guardian of AFE.
"I can't believe the news today. I can't close my eyes and make it go away..."
[1] Political, not weather.
Vard
<bou...@thunREMOVEtek.net> writes
>On 21 Apr 1999 05:24:31 GMT, Chris <chris.c...@sci.monash.edu.au>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Sorry, your not obtuse, I'm just vague. Arshag (if I have spelled the
>>name correctly), was a grolim of mediocre ability who raised an illusory
>>demon lord in DLoK. Polgara punished him by making him immortal, and
>>enforcing the belief upon him that nobody would ever believe him.
>
>Even more tangental... Could Arshag turn his curse into a blessing? If
>he runs around saying "I am not your Master" would people start to
>dis-believe that, and think that he is is their Master? Maybe he could
>start a worldwide Anti-Eroind movement if he goes up to every person
>on earth and says "Eroind is a good and kindly God, much better then
>Torak" Maybe he could say to the universe "the Orb is not right in
>front of me and it hates me" And then it appears in front of him and
>it likes him?
>
including the orb being in front of him and hating him..... So that
wouldn't work anyhow :) Have to stick to one statement per sentence to
be safe (fairly...).
>
>Or maybe he should just find Polgara again, and say "I am not reformed
>one bit, and I still deserve this punishment" to her :)
>
paridoxes etc rather easily. So it must just make people distrust him or
something. I don't see how he could possibly be made invunerable anyhow
so the whole thing is a little silly :)
--
**** Vard
*maujv*__@ highroans.demon.co.uk/csv.warwick.ac.uk
*******./ "I have decided that conquering with dark armies is ... outmoded,
" " Old-fashioned, passe"- The dark one, Grunts
Aquarius
>In article <371e7b39...@news.thuntek.net>, Nathan
><bou...@thunREMOVEtek.net> writes
>>Even more tangental... Could Arshag turn his curse into a blessing? If
>>he runs around saying "I am not your Master" would people start to
>>dis-believe that, and think that he is is their Master? Maybe he could
>>start a worldwide Anti-Eroind movement if he goes up to every person
>>on earth and says "Eroind is a good and kindly God, much better then
>>Torak" Maybe he could say to the universe "the Orb is not right in
>>front of me and it hates me" And then it appears in front of him and
>>it likes him?
[deletia]
>Unfortunately if it worked that litterally you'd be into horrible
>paridoxes etc rather easily. So it must just make people distrust him or
>something. I don't see how he could possibly be made invunerable anyhow
>so the whole thing is a little silly :)
We talked about this a while back, as I recall.
The curse has to be more adaptive and intelligent than just making
people believe the negation of whatever is said, otherwise it's easy
to circumvent ("I am *not* going to take the left fork at this road",
sort of thing). This has a strong shared element with Raymond
Smullyan's knight-knave puzzles (an author whom I recommend anyone
interested in logic reads).
The curse would have to make people disbelieve Arshag's *intent*, not
just believe the logical negative of his wording, so clever word
tricks wouldn't get around it. Look at Cassandra, who is (fairly
obviously) the inspiration for Arshag's curse. Possibly also those of
you who read the Dragonlance saga may want to compare Arshag
post-curse with the concubine condemned to life at the bottom of the
sea in Itzak Klashtar (something like that) in "The Medusa Plague",
part of the Defenders of Magic trilogy.
Urgit
said something quite remarkable...
> >|Ce'Nedra - has distinct hippy tendencies in that she can't resist the sun. :)
> >|(and has some dodgy tie-dyed clothes hiding in her wardrobe too) ;)
> >Hippy-goth. Thats a new one on me. :-)
> In the current climate [1], it's wiser than wearing black
> trenchcoats......
> [1] Political, not weather.
I'm glad you made that distinction Ce :-/
--
Urgy... black trench coat owner :)
Khendon
Vard <ma...@highroans.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <371e7b39...@news.thuntek.net>, Nathan
> <bou...@thunREMOVEtek.net> writes
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Sorry, your not obtuse, I'm just vague. Arshag (if I have spelled the
> >>name correctly), was a grolim of mediocre ability who raised an illusory
> >>demon lord in DLoK. Polgara punished him by making him immortal, and
> >>enforcing the belief upon him that nobody would ever believe him.
> >
> >he runs around saying "I am not your Master" would people start to
> >dis-believe that, and think that he is is their Master? Maybe he could
> >start a worldwide Anti-Eroind movement if he goes up to every person
> >on earth and says "Eroind is a good and kindly God, much better then
> >Torak" Maybe he could say to the universe "the Orb is not right in
> >front of me and it hates me" And then it appears in front of him and
> >it likes him?
> >
> including the orb being in front of him and hating him..... So that
> wouldn't work anyhow :) Have to stick to one statement per sentence to
> be safe (fairly...).
!(right_in_front_of_me(the_orb)) && (hates_me(the_orb))
:-)
I've always wondered, though, why English (and other spoken languages,
I suppose) don't have some way of indicating brackets other than
actually saying "open bracket" and "close bracket"... it would make
the language so much better :-)
To ramble on *way* off the topic: I read recently that most non-English
languages have a different word for "free" as in "freedom" and "free" as
in "no cost"... is that true? It just seemed strange at first :-)
--
Khendon, a mutation of Jason Williams
AFE dg++ ka+>++ d+ m-> ot+ b- tq+ i+ c- l- afec+ a f- fsBM>B
khe...@bigfoot.com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Fiorenal
radio dispatch...
>To ramble on *way* off the topic: I read recently that most non-English
>languages have a different word for "free" as in "freedom" and "free" as
>in "no cost"... is that true? It just seemed strange at first :-)
>
I always thought it was strange that non-English languages have a different
word than English for everything.
Sorry - very old Steve Martin joke.
Fiorenal
If you always run away from trouble you will only die tired.
-Never ever ever ever give up-
Aquarius
>To ramble on *way* off the topic: I read recently that most non-English
>languages have a different word for "free" as in "freedom" and "free" as
>in "no cost"... is that true? It just seemed strange at first :-)
Some languages have *no* word meaning free as in freedom; look at
Newspeak.
Doubleplusgood idea, I think :)
Chris
>Even more tangental... Could Arshag turn his curse into a blessing? If
>he runs around saying "I am not your Master" would people start to
>dis-believe that, and think that he is is their Master? Maybe he could
>start a worldwide Anti-Eroind movement if he goes up to every person
>on earth and says "Eroind is a good and kindly God, much better then
>Torak" Maybe he could say to the universe "the Orb is not right in
>front of me and it hates me" And then it appears in front of him and
>it likes him?
I may be wrong about this, but I think the disbelief aspect of Polgara's curse
extended only to his supposed immortality, not to everything he says.
Chris
Murlainn
> Even more tangental... Could Arshag turn his curse into a blessing? If
> he runs around saying "I am not your Master" would people start to
> dis-believe that, and think that he is is their Master? Maybe he could
> start a worldwide Anti-Eroind movement if he goes up to every person
> on earth and says "Eroind is a good and kindly God, much better then
> Torak" Maybe he could say to the universe "the Orb is not right in
> front of me and it hates me" And then it appears in front of him and
> it likes him?
>
> one bit, and I still deserve this punishment" to her :)
Or possibly- couldn't he just say- "I am not cursed"? Funky paradox. :)
Kamion
[Arshag]
> I may be wrong about this, but I think the disbelief aspect of Polgara's curse
> extended only to his supposed immortality, not to everything he says.
Polgara says something along the lines of "but also, no-one will ever
believe a single word you say". Does anyone have the actual quote handy?
Kamion
--
http://thor.cam.ac.uk/~cjw44/eddings/
"Ammo is cheap, remember?" - The Internet Oracle
B.H.H. Mulder (Q)
>
> To ramble on *way* off the topic: I read recently that most non-English
> languages have a different word for "free" as in "freedom" and "free" as
> in "no cost"... is that true? It just seemed strange at first :-)
>
It is true : vrij -> vrijheid (freedom)
gratis --> geen kosten (no cost)
that's dutch then..
Q
--
AFE m> ot++>++ b->- tq- i- c- l-- afec! a? f fsBM>BM
prala
While bullying Urgit, I hear Ce'Nedra say...
>
>In the current climate [1], it's wiser than wearing black
>trenchcoats......
Do you know that the local news media actually *came* to a goth club we go
to and interviewed people about "goth rock"? *sigh*
prala
"sometimes you fall in the gutter, and sometimes the gutter comes up to you"
www.geocities.com/Paris/Salon/1587 || ICQ 36875011
Ce'Nedra
<pr...@bolt.com> say:
>
>While bullying Urgit, I hear Ce'Nedra say...
>>
>>In the current climate [1], it's wiser than wearing black
>>trenchcoats......
>
>Do you know that the local news media actually *came* to a goth club we go
>to and interviewed people about "goth rock"? *sigh*
A lot of people in the UK with gothish websites have been mailed by
journalists asking if they'll appear on TV about it. :(
--
Ce'Nedra - mainly sulking coz no one asked her to be on telly. ;)
Aquarius
>The Citadel resounded to the voice of Chris:
>
>[Arshag]
>
>> I may be wrong about this, but I think the disbelief aspect of Polgara's curse
>> extended only to his supposed immortality, not to everything he says.
>
>Polgara says something along the lines of "but also, no-one will ever
>believe a single word you say". Does anyone have the actual quote handy?
" [....] This, then, is your reward. You are now invincible. No-one
can kill you -- no man, no demon -- not even you yourself. *But*,
no-one will ever again believe a single word that you say. You will be
faced with constant ridicule and derision all the days of your life
and you will be driven out wherever you go, to wander the world as a
rootless vagabond. [....]" (DLoK, end Ch 22)
That seems to state fairly clearly that *everything* Arshag says will
be disbelieved, not just "Hey, I'm invincible".
I love having my books handy.
I wonder if Polgara couldn't perform that immortality bestowing
without the associated curse? Otherwise why not do it to Beldaran?
prala
While bullying Urgit, I hear Ce'Nedra say:
>
>A lot of people in the UK with gothish websites have been mailed by
>journalists asking if they'll appear on TV about it. :(
my mom keeps asking me if that was *that awful music* i listened to in high
school. i told her no. (if those kids had been listening to the bauhaus or
joy division, all they would have been able to do was sit in home in bed and
burn candles....;)
MR M R J CARPENTER
> Kamion spoo'd forth the following:
>
> >The Citadel resounded to the voice of Chris:
> >
> >[Arshag]
> >
> >> I may be wrong about this, but I think the disbelief aspect of Polgara's curse
> >> extended only to his supposed immortality, not to everything he says.
> >
> >Polgara says something along the lines of "but also, no-one will ever
> >believe a single word you say". Does anyone have the actual quote handy?
>
> " [....] This, then, is your reward. You are now invincible. No-one
> can kill you -- no man, no demon -- not even you yourself. *But*,
> no-one will ever again believe a single word that you say. You will be
> faced with constant ridicule and derision all the days of your life
> and you will be driven out wherever you go, to wander the world as a
> rootless vagabond. [....]" (DLoK, end Ch 22)
>
> That seems to state fairly clearly that *everything* Arshag says will
> be disbelieved, not just "Hey, I'm invincible".
>
Well it seems to suggest that not one of his words will be believed....
which could produce some *very* strange results. Negating snetences word
by word?!
But that's being bit litteral I think :)
>
> I love having my books handy.
>
> I wonder if Polgara couldn't perform that immortality bestowing
> without the associated curse? Otherwise why not do it to Beldaran?
>
I don't see how she can do it *at all*. I guess maybe if the universe
consents or something. But since Torak isn't so presumably couldn't make
himself so,I have no idea where the power could come from.
Or maybe (a la KKerr) there's someone around called no-one who she has
decided is going to kill him. Almost makes sense of the other part of it
as well. Or is this just tooo silly? :)
--
*****
*maujv*_@ csv.warwick.ac.uk/highroans.demon.co.uk
*******./ Vard, head of abstract deamonology and pure maths department,
" " University of Kell.
Teut
ryogenix.albatross.co.uk> writes
>[....] This, then, is your reward. You are now invincible. No-one
>can kill you -- no man, no demon -- not even you yourself.
Has he actually been made immortal? Won't he still die within his own
natural lifespan...?
--
Teut, Draconic Defender of the Alias Scrolls.
te...@thebusstop.demon.co.uk http://www.thebusstop.demon.co.uk/index.htm
AFE dg+ ka+ d+ m++ ot+>- b- tq- i+ c l>+ afec++ a? f++ fsBM
sh'dow
MR M R J CARPENTER <MA...@csv.warwick.ac.uk> writes
>
>I don't see how she can do it *at all*. I guess maybe if the universe
>consents or something. But since Torak isn't so presumably couldn't make
>himself so,I have no idea where the power could come from.
>Or maybe (a la KKerr) there's someone around called no-one who she has
>decided is going to kill him. Almost makes sense of the other part of it
>as well. Or is this just tooo silly? :)
not less so), but is suddenly possible!
Raven-working for a new "colleague"
:) :) :) :) :)"Crack suicide squad-Charge!!"
:) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :)
Murlainn
> > " [....] This, then, is your reward. You are now invincible. No-one
> > no-one will ever again believe a single word that you say. You will be
> > faced with constant ridicule and derision all the days of your life
> > and you will be driven out wherever you go, to wander the world as a
> > rootless vagabond. [....]" (DLoK, end Ch 22)
It dpes say that he can't be killed. But killed tends to imply unnatural
causes, does it not? It seems to mean that he won't be able to be killed,
but will most liekely die in his own time. The inevitability of death (with
few exceptions, all but one divine) seems to be constant through Eddings.
--
-Murlainn
" I am a cipher, wrapped in an enigma, smothered in secret sauce... "
Chris
>> > " [....] This, then, is your reward. You are now invincible. No-one
>> > can kill you -- no man, no demon -- not even you yourself. *But*,
>> > no-one will ever again believe a single word that you say. You will be
>> > faced with constant ridicule and derision all the days of your life
>> > and you will be driven out wherever you go, to wander the world as a
>> > rootless vagabond. [....]" (DLoK, end Ch 22)
Has anyone considered the possibility that Polgara might be imposing a delusion on to
him rather than actually making him invincible?
It does seem a bit beyond the power of the will and word (at least for a human) to do.
Our beliefs shape our character and our behaviour, so maybe Polgara planted this belief
into his nature so that he would never enjoy a single moment of satisfaction in his life
from then on.
I find it hard to believe that Arshag could raise the King of Hell and say "too bad
sunshine, Polgara made me invincible...". Why wouldn't he turn around and tell Polgara
to "Be not!". If he can't be destroyed, then Polgara has changed the laws of the
universe. NOT likely!
Chris
Queen Ametica
aqua...@kryogenix.albatross.co.uk wrote:
> B.H.H. Mulder (Q) spoo'd forth the following:
>
> >Aquarius wrote:
> >> Admittedly, we know that sorcery doesn't by definition prolong life,
> >> given the Rivan Line, but that doesn't mean that it was definitely the
> >> Prophecy, unless I've forgotten something?
> >
> >Is it so that all in the Rivan line activated their Will ?
>
> Not all of them, but some of them did, and Belgarath points out that
> almost all the line have been talented to some extent...
>
>
Just who others besides Belgarion and Riva Iron-grip when using the Orb? The
others probably had the talent, but they never used it. That's why long-life
of sorcery did not apply to them. Besides, they *wanted* to be obscure. What
comes to Riva, well he didn't really *want* to live without Beldaran... It's
all about wanting to live... --Queen Ametica The most expensive woman in
Nadrak History To E-mail change Ametica for sluhtanen and my-dejanews.com for
netscape.net
Queen Ametica
aqua...@kryogenix.albatross.co.uk wrote:
> B.H.H. Mulder (Q) spoo'd forth the following:
>
> >Aquarius wrote:
> >> Admittedly, we know that sorcery doesn't by definition prolong life,
> >> given the Rivan Line, but that doesn't mean that it was definitely the
> >> Prophecy, unless I've forgotten something?
> >
> >Is it so that all in the Rivan line activated their Will ?
>
> Not all of them, but some of them did, and Belgarath points out that
> almost all the line have been talented to some extent...
>
Just who besides Belgarion ever did anything with it? They might have had it
as a strong possibility, but not as actuality. --Queen Ametica The most
Aquarius
>In article <371d144b...@news.albatross.co.uk>,
> aqua...@kryogenix.albatross.co.uk wrote:
>> >Is it so that all in the Rivan line activated their Will ?
>>
>> Not all of them, but some of them did, and Belgarath points out that
>> almost all the line have been talented to some extent...
>
>Just who others besides Belgarion and Riva Iron-grip when using the Orb? The
>others probably had the talent, but they never used it.
Gelane, for a start. He broke the Grolim's hold over him in BtS,
prompting Belgarath to remark that most of the line have the talent to
a greater or lesser degree....
Murlainn
> What
> comes to Riva, well he didn't really *want* to live without Beldaran...
It's
> all about wanting to live...
I think you may have just ended the argument abut Garion outliving Ce'
there, if I haven't missed the logical accepted conclusion to it somewhere
else. He won't really want to live without her, so will probably go the
same way as Riva did.
--
-Murlainn, hoping he didn't just invite a mass o' flamings by that comment.
Fiorenal
dispatch.....
><snips>
>> What
>> comes to Riva, well he didn't really *want* to live without Beldaran...
>It's
>> all about wanting to live...
>
>I think you may have just ended the argument abut Garion outliving Ce'
>there, if I haven't missed the logical accepted conclusion to it somewhere
>else. He won't really want to live without her, so will probably go the
>same way as Riva did.
>
For what its worth from me, I really like that explanation.
Fiorenal
If you always run away from trouble you just die tired.
-Never ever ever ever give up-
Obstacles only stop you when you take your eyes off of your goals.
Bret J. McGinty
>sluh...@netscape.net (Queen Ametica) wrote:
>
<Misplaced text>
>>"Nadrak women live longer than Nadrak men because the men forget to keep
>>their hands to themselves".
>
>Just out of interest, where do Nadrak children come from in this scenario? ;)
Sorry if I offend anybody, but I just can't resist....
Uh, Chris, the Nadrak children come from the fast fuckers!
Talen <who's sure to get flamed for this>
Chris
>Uh, Chris, the Nadrak children come from the fast f**kers! (CENSORED)
Nadrak men must be taking lessons from the yanks. (I hate to think what kind of males
are being selected for...)
;)
Chris
Chris
>Just who besides Belgarion ever did anything with it? They might have had it
>as a strong possibility, but not as actuality. --Queen Ametica The most
>expensive woman in Nadrak History To E-mail change Ametica for sluhtanen and
>my-dejanews.com for netscape.net
Assuming that most of the sandy haired kids in the Rivan line had some talent,
wouldn't that have presented something of a risk to the security of Polgara et
al's whereabouts? The first time Polgara exercised here talent, it was very
*noisy* IIRC.
It would have brought Ctuchik himself if any of the anonymous Rivan line had
used their talent extensively. I'm actually surprised Pol and Grat' didn't take
precautions to ensure that this never happened. (Or maybe that's how Asharak
located Garion in PoP)
Chris
Queen Ametica
aqua...@kryogenix.albatross.co.uk wrote:
>
> Gelane, for a start. He broke the Grolim's hold over him in BtS,
> prompting Belgarath to remark that most of the line have the talent to
> a greater or lesser degree....
>
> Aq.
>
Hmm... Grolim's lies and his pride were the main reason for the hold. Polgara
broke that when he made Grolim's thoughts audible. Maybe he did use the
talent, but he was not aware of doing so. --Queen Ametica The most expensive
woman in Nadrak History To E-mail change Ametica for sluhtanen and
my-dejanews.com for netscape.net
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Queen Ametica
Chris <chris.c...@sci.monash.edu.au> wrote:
argument
> that the world of Bel/Mal is heavily grounded in what people believe they are
> capable of doing. Afterall, didn't Grat' say that tWatW is inherent in
everyone,
> but that only a few manage to recognise it and develop it.
>
>
> >"Nadrak women live longer than Nadrak men because the men forget to keep
> >their hands to themselves".
>
> Just out of interest, where do Nadrak children come from in this scenario? ;)
>
The women let their chosen ones to sire some. Elder men get a tendency to stay
in taverns where they happen to die after offending a young Nadrak dancer.
-- Queen Ametica,
Queen Ametica
rin...@btigateNOSPAM.com (Bret J. McGinty) wrote:
<chris.c...@sci.monash.edu.au> wrote:
> >>their hands to themselves".
> >
> >Just out of interest, where do Nadrak children come from in this scenario? ;)
>
>
> Uh, Chris, the Nadrak children come from the fast fuckers!
>
> Talen <who's sure to get flamed for this>
>
Dear child, you are amusing, but you're mistaken. No man is that fast.
Sometimes there is a man who is pleasant enough to be worth to father Nadrak
kids, dear, that's all. Besides we know what men want and we always have
means to defend our person from unwanted attention. -- Queen Ametica, The
Aglaranna
.
>>
>>Just out of interest, where do Nadrak children come from in this scenario? ;)
>
>Sorry if I offend anybody, but I just can't resist....
>
>
>Talen <who's sure to get flamed for this>
Not a flame, just a piece of advice (and I'm very surprised no one
else has said it before me). Please remember that not everyone who reads
this group is an adult (and I'm not sure 2 days over 16 qualifies either
:->) so think about expletives before you use them. We do have children
as young as 9 reading this group now and then.
That is not to say that the joke wasn't funny - I thought it was -
but it would have been just as funny if you'd used * instead of some of
the letters.
This goes for QA as well - when replying, please edit as someone else
did.
There, that's my quota of good sense for this month - watch out for
May's.
--
Aglaranna - Queen of Elvandar
Smile - people will wonder what you've been up to :->
To email, change my home to my SO - russ-payne.
Dom Wynn
Aglaranna wrote in message ...
>Please remember that not everyone who reads
>this group is an adult (and I'm not sure 2 days over 16 qualifies
either
>:->) so think about expletives before you use them. We do have children
>as young as 9 reading this group now and then.
> That is not to say that the joke wasn't funny - I thought it was -
>but it would have been just as funny if you'd used * instead of some of
>the letters.
> This goes for QA as well - when replying, please edit as someone
else
>did.
True. I must remember to keep my own language under control....
AFE - Parental Guidance only Newsgroup? :¬)
Dom