The Tamuli...What has happened to David Eddings?
Douglas Burke
continually nagging me and making me want to throw it down in disgust.
It isn't the story, the scenario or that I don't like Eddings, because in
the past he was my all time favourite author. However, something which
was extremely detectable towards the end of Domes of Fire and which has
continued in The Shining Ones is Eddings' abysmal writing when it comes
to dialogue. He has got a standard way of writing it, and it has got to
the point where there is hardly a quotation mark on the page without the
words "a bit" or "really" (as in "really big") or "I think we might want
to..."etc. Is this something that Eddings has always done and I have
just never noticed it before? I really don't think so, I find it more
than a bit annoying and I think he might want to do something about it
before I give up in disgust and stop buying his books:) The only way
that a character is given an individual voice is when he gives them a
silly and just as annoying accent, such as Callador's, (even more
annoying since we know he is just putting it on.)
Also, while I'm in gripe mode, Aphrael is not powerful enough. She's
supposed to be a god, and Sephrenia says that Sparhawk should think of
her in the same way as the Elene God, who is supposed to be all-powerful,
omnipotent, omnicient etc. Aphrael isn't and she should be.
Zoe Dangerfield
Douglas Burke <db...@st-andrews.ac.uk> writes:
I have to say I never noticed the dialogue thing before, but I will
go and look :-)
As for Aphreal, she is a child goddess and I think we are meant to
think of her as an adult being a child. Does that make any sense? :-)
John R. Walker
>silly and just as annoying accent, such as Callador's, (even more
>annoying since we know he is just putting it on.)
I won't even get into the first part of that paragraph but I will say something
about this...
What's wrong with Caalador? It gives him personality, and some comic relief. I
may be hard to read, but as he said, It is much easyer to pass off as an ingnoral
yokel than who he realy is...
Makes me think of that Nadrak and his Peg...
>Also, while I'm in gripe mode, Aphrael is not powerful enough. She's
>supposed to be a god, and Sephrenia says that Sparhawk should think of
>her in the same way as the Elene God, who is supposed to be all-powerful,
>omnipotent, omnicient etc. Aphrael isn't and she should be.
From what eddings says, the Elene church is suposed to be a mirroe of the
Chirstian curch, and the policy is that there god is abouve all others, or is the
only one..
Aphrael is may just not find it useful to go around riping cities out of the
ground, or drying up sea's, or it's just not her style. She seems to be more
intrested in manipulating people to get her wishes, not by scaring them into doing
it like Cygron or Azash...
- Geoff Walker....
Martha C. Lanclos
>Douglas Burke <db...@st-andrews.ac.uk> wrote:
<snip>
> What's wrong with Caalador? It gives him personality, and some comic relief. I
>may be hard to read, but as he said, It is much easyer to pass off as an ingnoral
>yokel than who he realy is...
> Makes me think of that Nadrak and his Peg...
I always did like that peg, one of my favorite re-reads for a pleasant
bedtime story.
Justin Hall
>I am in the middle of reading The Shining Ones and something is
>continually nagging me and making me want to throw it down in disgust.
>It isn't the story, the scenario or that I don't like Eddings, because in
>the past he was my all time favourite author. However, something which
>was extremely detectable towards the end of Domes of Fire and which has
>continued in The Shining Ones is Eddings' abysmal writing when it comes
>to dialogue. He has got a standard way of writing it, and it has got to
>the point where there is hardly a quotation mark on the page without the
>words "a bit" or "really" (as in "really big") or "I think we might want
>to..."etc. Is this something that Eddings has always done and I have
>just never noticed it before? I really don't think so, I find it more
>than a bit annoying and I think he might want to do something about it
>before I give up in disgust and stop buying his books:) The only way
>that a character is given an individual voice is when he gives them a
>silly and just as annoying accent, such as Callador's, (even more
>annoying since we know he is just putting it on.)
Yes, we've all heard Tamuli bashing before.. about, oh, say 70% of the
people ion this group disliked the series. I personally enjoyed it,
maybe not as much as the Elenuim, butstill it was good. I think DE was
just in a hurry to finish the series.. it did seem rushed..
>Also, while I'm in gripe mode, Aphrael is not powerful enough. She's
>supposed to be a god, and Sephrenia says that Sparhawk should think of
>her in the same way as the Elene God, who is supposed to be all-powerful,
>omnipotent, omnicient etc. Aphrael isn't and she should be.
That's your opinion. But perhaps DE didn't think so... if she had been
as powerful as the Elene God, than taking the Pandions away from him
would have been child's play (err.. no pun intended :P ).
"Who owns a man? The one who rules him, or the one who pays him?" -Eriond
Justin "Skale" Hall hal...@one.net http://w3.one.net/~halldp/
Andrew Willis
wrote
>I am in the middle of reading The Shining Ones and something is
>continually nagging me and making me want to throw it down in disgust.
>It isn't the story, the scenario or that I don't like Eddings, because in
>the past he was my all time favourite author. However, something which
>was extremely detectable towards the end of Domes of Fire and which has
>continued in The Shining Ones is Eddings' abysmal writing when it comes
>to dialogue. He has got a standard way of writing it, and it has got to
>the point where there is hardly a quotation mark on the page without the
>words "a bit" or "really" (as in "really big") or "I think we might want
>to..."etc. Is this something that Eddings has always done and I have
>just never noticed it before? I really don't think so, I find it more
>than a bit annoying and I think he might want to do something about it
>before I give up in disgust and stop buying his books:) The only way
>that a character is given an individual voice is when he gives them a
>silly and just as annoying accent, such as Callador's, (even more
>annoying since we know he is just putting it on.)
>
>Also, while I'm in gripe mode, Aphrael is not powerful enough. She's
>supposed to be a god, and Sephrenia says that Sparhawk should think of
>her in the same way as the Elene God, who is supposed to be all-powerful,
>omnipotent, omnicient etc. Aphrael isn't and she should be.
>
As far as I understand it Aphraels power comes from the amount of followers
she has. ie the more followers the more power.
Now Aphrael presumably has followers from Styricum and she also has the
Pandions as well (because they ask her to enact their spells for them) so
this would make her stronger than the other Younger Gods. The Elene god, on
the other hand, has most of Elenia(?) following Him so his power would be
greater than hers.
This is just my opinion of course.
l8r
Andy
Sos <Carl Norris>
On Fri, 19 Apr 1996, Douglas Burke wrote:
> I am in the middle of reading The Shining Ones and something is
> continually nagging me and making me want to throw it down in disgust.
> It isn't the story, the scenario or that I don't like Eddings, because in
> the past he was my all time favourite author. However, something which
> was extremely detectable towards the end of Domes of Fire and which has
> continued in The Shining Ones is Eddings' abysmal writing when it comes
> to dialogue. He has got a standard way of writing it, and it has got to
> the point where there is hardly a quotation mark on the page without the
> words "a bit" or "really" (as in "really big") or "I think we might want
> to..."etc. Is this something that Eddings has always done and I have
> just never noticed it before? I really don't think so, I find it more
> than a bit annoying and I think he might want to do something about it
> before I give up in disgust and stop buying his books:) The only way
> that a character is given an individual voice is when he gives them a
> silly and just as annoying accent, such as Callador's, (even more
> annoying since we know he is just putting it on.)
>
> Also, while I'm in gripe mode, Aphrael is not powerful enough. She's
> supposed to be a god, and Sephrenia says that Sparhawk should think of
> her in the same way as the Elene God, who is supposed to be all-powerful,
> omnipotent, omnicient etc. Aphrael isn't and she should be.
>
>
>
>
Small point. Aphrael doesnt have as many worshippers as the Elene God and
is therefore less powerful than him/it.
wlk...@dma01.inetone.net
HA>>I am in the middle of reading The Shining Ones and something is
HA>>continually nagging me and making me want to throw it down in disgust.
HA>>It isn't the story, the scenario or that I don't like Eddings, because in
HA>>the past he was my all time favourite author. However, something which
HA>>was extremely detectable towards the end of Domes of Fire and which has
HA>>continued in The Shining Ones is Eddings' abysmal writing when it comes
HA>>to dialogue. He has got a standard way of writing it, and it has got to
HA>>the point where there is hardly a quotation mark on the page without the
HA>>words "a bit" or "really" (as in "really big") or "I think we might want
HA>>to..."etc. Is this something that Eddings has always done and I have
HA>>just never noticed it before? I really don't think so, I find it more
HA>>than a bit annoying and I think he might want to do something about it
HA>>before I give up in disgust and stop buying his books:) The only way
HA>>that a character is given an individual voice is when he gives them a
HA>>silly and just as annoying accent, such as Callador's, (even more
HA>>annoying since we know he is just putting it on.)
HA>Yes, we've all heard Tamuli bashing before.. about, oh, say 70% of the
HA>people ion this group disliked the series. I personally enjoyed it,
HA>maybe not as much as the Elenuim, butstill it was good. I think DE was
HA>just in a hurry to finish the series.. it did seem rushed..
HA>>Also, while I'm in gripe mode, Aphrael is not powerful enough. She's
HA>>supposed to be a god, and Sephrenia says that Sparhawk should think of
HA>>her in the same way as the Elene God, who is supposed to be all-powerful,
HA>>omnipotent, omnicient etc. Aphrael isn't and she should be.
HA>That's your opinion. But perhaps DE didn't think so... if she had been
HA>as powerful as the Elene God, than taking the Pandions away from him
HA>would have been child's play (err.. no pun intended :P ).
I agree I like BOTH series and cannot wait for more!!!
Giles Alexander
> >Also, while I'm in gripe mode, Aphrael is not powerful enough. She's
> >supposed to be a god, and Sephrenia says that Sparhawk should think of
> >her in the same way as the Elene God, who is supposed to be all-powerful,
> >omnipotent, omnicient etc. Aphrael isn't and she should be.
>
> From what eddings says, the Elene church is suposed to be a mirroe of the
> Chirstian curch, and the policy is that there god is abouve all others, or is the
> only one..
> Aphrael is may just not find it useful to go around riping cities out of the
> ground, or drying up sea's, or it's just not her style. She seems to be more
> intrested in manipulating people to get her wishes, not by scaring them into doing
> it like Cygron or Azash...
> - Geoff Walker....
Also, Gods are given their power by the amount of worshippers they have. The Elene church is by far the largest church on the planet, and therefore the Elene God will have the most power. Aphrael must take her worshippers mainly from the Styric population, which doesn't appear to be very large in the first place, and is then divided by at least 1000 gods.
Aphrael expresses her power in different ways (the touching and kissing). She uses here appearance as a flighty child to gain control over humans. She is really quite different, remember the bit with the mirror in tSO?
Giles Alexander
ay...@tip.nl
>>supposed to be a god, and Sephrenia says that Sparhawk should think of
>>her in the same way as the Elene God, who is supposed to be all-powerful,
>>omnipotent, omnicient etc. Aphrael isn't and she should be.
> From what eddings says, the Elene church is suposed to be a mirroe of the
>Chirstian curch, and the policy is that there god is abouve all others, or is the
>only one..
> Aphrael is may just not find it useful to go around riping cities out of the
>ground, or drying up sea's, or it's just not her style. She seems to be more
>intrested in manipulating people to get her wishes, not by scaring them into doing
>it like Cygron or Azash...
> - Geoff Walker....
Sorry: both wrong.
She shouldn't be - and thank God she isn't [littte manipulator!, brr]
What is stated clearly in the books: a god is stronger the more
followers he/she has!
As there are 1000 Styrian gods, and not much Styrians, any Styrian god
cannot be much to start with. As said somewhere by the Delphaic lady
[I think] "They are all yust children".
The Elene god has by far the most followers, and thus he is indeed
omnipotent etc. Aphrael admits this somewhere: he is extremely
powerfull etc , more than others. SO: it is NOT yust a 'church
policy' that he is the strongest - he yust is!
So Sephrina is refering to 'race', not power. For the 'wrong' church
policy is: "there are no other gods", which should be restated to
"do not worship other gods, let EL be the only one to you".
Note that the Elene God is the only god that is never given a name! As
somewhere, in another context, Aphrael says "Hmm, all primitive people
name themselves after their god", it is obvious to me that the name
of the Elene god is El - which happens to be the wellknown Hebrew word
for God [Eddings did his homework?]
Odd of course, that while all minor gods are little bussy-bodies, El
remains silent and invisible. In my eyes this is a inconsequence,
making clear that first Eddings made the Elene Church [after Catholic
model], and only later flipped in some other gods for flavour.
Actualy, I think El has a point and a reason for his behaviour: what
would you like better - being constantly manipulated by a god as
Aphrael, are make your own moral decisions without to much
interferance like El does? That might be the reason, why all gods are
depicted as totally immoral, who see their followers as 'possession'
[Aphrael quoted!] and mere powns to play with , except for El, who
treats his followers more like responsible adults.
What remains unclear: how do gods come to existance? Did Behliom
create some? Do they arise by the imagination of their people, growing
in strenght by time? What is the story about the fight between Young
and Elder Styrian Gods? It's a bit of a theological zoo in Eddings
books, lacking the 'logical' structuring of f.e. Tolkien.
kind regards
Aayko
Wyrd One
In article <DqMwJ...@tip.nl> on Tue, 30 Apr 1996 02:27:58 GMT,
ay...@tip.nl pounded plastic protuberances to produce:
>Sorry: both wrong.
>She shouldn't be - and thank God she isn't [littte manipulator!, brr]
>What is stated clearly in the books: a god is stronger the more
>followers he/she has!
>As there are 1000 Styrian gods, and not much Styrians, any Styrian god
>cannot be much to start with. As said somewhere by the Delphaic lady
>[I think] "They are all yust children".
>The Elene god has by far the most followers, and thus he is indeed
>omnipotent etc.
...
>What remains unclear: how do gods come to existance? Did Behliom
>create some? Do they arise by the imagination of their people, growing
>in strenght by time? What is the story about the fight between Young
>and Elder Styrian Gods? It's a bit of a theological zoo in Eddings
>books, lacking the 'logical' structuring of f.e. Tolkien.
According to Aphreal in her conversation with SparHawk (in "The Sapphire
Rose" i think): she states: "There are multitudes of gods floating around
out there...it is just that they no longer have any worshipper's anymore
and therefore have no physical preosence or power in this world." She
also states: "The more worshipers that a god has the more powerful he/she
is (chosen gender)." Furthermore in the Tamuli when Cyrgon was killing
her childern (worshipers) it "diminished" her as they put it.
Therefore I would surmise that a god/goddess comes into being by
the combined will of it's worshipers and gains power from there. Also, if
we incorporate the concept of will from the Belgariad series, Sparhawk
(with Behelliom) could possibly have enough will to create a new
god/goddess...(intersting possiblility).
As to the War between the Elder and Younger God's of styricum,
they have not addressed this issue yet...maybe he will later on in
another book.
Besides the Theological hodge-podge that Eddings creates in this
series give it a little flavor of real life...think about our own
world...we have the Christian Theology and then there are many others
that are still around our world with less influence (Wicca for instance).
Sincerely,
David Chubb
*Awaiting "Polgara: the Sorceress" (hope fully sometime this year since
he turns all his books in a series into the publisher at once [friend at
DelRey Publishing])*
--
_______David Prentice Chubb__________________
/ 370 Vawter Hall | "All information is /
/ Virginia Tech | of the opinion of /
/ Blacksburg, Va 24060-0017 | David Chubb and /
/___E-Mail: dch...@vt.edu____|_no other entity."/
E.M.P. Pringle
In article <4m3got$j...@pellew.ntu.edu.au>,
Giles Alexander <g...@cs.ntu.edu.au> wrote:
>In article <4lbho0$o...@news.accent.net>, "John R. Walker" <WAL...@mail.accent.net> writes:
>
>> >supposed to be a god, and Sephrenia says that Sparhawk should think of
>> >her in the same way as the Elene God, who is supposed to be all-powerful,
>> >omnipotent, omnicient etc. Aphrael isn't and she should be.
>>
>> Chirstian curch, and the policy is that there god is abouve all others, or is the
>> only one..
>> Aphrael is may just not find it useful to go around riping cities out of the
>> ground, or drying up sea's, or it's just not her style. She seems to be more
>> intrested in manipulating people to get her wishes, not by scaring them into doing
>> it like Cygron or Azash...
>> - Geoff Walker....
>
>
>Aphrael expresses her power in different ways (the touching and kissing). She uses here appearance as a flighty child to gain control over humans. She is really quite different, remember the bit with the mirror in tSO?
This reminds me of a point which has been puzzling me; a God has pewer
according to the number of worshippers they have. If they have no worshippers
they have no power (stated in DoF wrt the troll Gods: if all the Trolls were
exterminated, then they would be powerless). But when Otha first came apon the
forgotten idol which imprisoned Azash, Azash said that no-one had worshipped
him for ages. Yet, in order to convince Otha that he was real, he caused Otha's
lost goat to reappear. How, if he had no worshippers (Otha didn't even believe
he wasn't someone playing a practical joke at that ppoint)?
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Miss Elizabeth Pringle |
Univ. Museum of Zoology | I knew a phoenix in my youth so let
Cambridge University, England | them have their day.
Kalten
wlk...@dma01.inetone.net wrote:
: [B>Douglas Burke <db...@st-andrews.ac.uk> wrote:
: HA>>I am in the middle of reading The Shining Ones and something is
: HA>>continually nagging me and making me want to throw it down in disgust.
: HA>>It isn't the story, the scenario or that I don't like Eddings, because in
: HA>>the past he was my all time favourite author. However, something which
: HA>>was extremely detectable towards the end of Domes of Fire and which has
: HA>>continued in The Shining Ones is Eddings' abysmal writing when it comes
: HA>>to dialogue. He has got a standard way of writing it, and it has got to
: HA>>the point where there is hardly a quotation mark on the page without the
: HA>>words "a bit" or "really" (as in "really big") or "I think we might want
: HA>>to..."etc. Is this something that Eddings has always done and I have
: HA>>just never noticed it before? I really don't think so, I find it more
: HA>>than a bit annoying and I think he might want to do something about it
: HA>>before I give up in disgust and stop buying his books:) The only way
: HA>>that a character is given an individual voice is when he gives them a
: HA>>silly and just as annoying accent, such as Callador's, (even more
: HA>>annoying since we know he is just putting it on.)
Where's this abysmal writing? Are you sure that this 'a bit' and
'really' stuff isn't when Eddings characters are filled with indecision?
: HA>Yes, we've all heard Tamuli bashing before.. about, oh, say 70% of the
: HA>people ion this group disliked the series. I personally enjoyed it,
: HA>maybe not as much as the Elenuim, butstill it was good. I think DE was
: HA>just in a hurry to finish the series.. it did seem rushed..
Nope, actually we just like the other series a tad better.
I thought it was pretty good.
: HA>>Also, while I'm in gripe mode, Aphrael is not powerful enough. She's
: HA>>supposed to be a god, and Sephrenia says that Sparhawk should think of
: HA>>her in the same way as the Elene God, who is supposed to be all-powerful,
: HA>>omnipotent, omnicient etc. Aphrael isn't and she should be.
Aphrael was only powerful when she was dating the Elene God.
That's actually how she worked out his real name which only Dolmant and a
few others are supposed to know.
She's very persuasive at times. She spent a few years in a brothel
learning a few tricks.
By the way, any guesses as to what the Elene god's real name is? I bet
he hides it cos it's a bit of an embarrassment. My moneys on 'Cecil'.
: HA>That's your opinion. But perhaps DE didn't think so... if she had been
: HA>as powerful as the Elene God, than taking the Pandions away from him
: HA>would have been child's play (err.. no pun intended :P ).
I think that Rollo is a Genie in disguise. This would undoubtedly turn
the balance of power back to Aphrael.
Kalten~!!!
Bit Byter
>: HA>>I am in the middle of reading The Shining Ones and something is
>: HA>>continually nagging me and making me want to throw it down in disgust.
>: HA>>It isn't the story, the scenario or that I don't like Eddings, because
in
>: HA>>the past he was my all time favourite author. However, something which
>: HA>>was extremely detectable towards the end of Domes of Fire and which has
>: HA>>continued in The Shining Ones is Eddings' abysmal writing when it comes
>: HA>>to dialogue. He has got a standard way of writing it, and it has got
to
>: HA>>the point where there is hardly a quotation mark on the page without
the
>: HA>>words "a bit" or "really" (as in "really big") or "I think we might
want
>: HA>>to..."etc. Is this something that Eddings has always done and I have
>: HA>>just never noticed it before? I really don't think so, I find it more
>: HA>>than a bit annoying and I think he might want to do something about it
>: HA>>before I give up in disgust and stop buying his books:) The only way
>: HA>>that a character is given an individual voice is when he gives them a
>: HA>>silly and just as annoying accent, such as Callador's, (even more
>: HA>>annoying since we know he is just putting it on.)
>: HA>Yes, we've all heard Tamuli bashing before.. about, oh, say 70% of the
>: HA>people ion this group disliked the series. I personally enjoyed it,
>: HA>maybe not as much as the Elenuim, butstill it was good. I think DE was
>: HA>just in a hurry to finish the series.. it did seem rushed..
I actually enjoyed the second series that he did ( E & T), But it did
seem kind of rushed. I am glad that I am not the only one that thinks so!!
>Aphrael was only powerful when she was dating the Elene God.
>That's actually how she worked out his real name which only Dolmant and a
>few others are supposed to know.
>She's very persuasive at times. She spent a few years in a brothel
>learning a few tricks.
How did you know this??? I never heard of anything like this
before???
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