Why don't they get hurt?
PETTER MÅRTENSSON
A strange thing about David Edding's books is that the characters have a
tendency to never get hurt. I think the worst wound somebody has ever got
was a pair of bruised ribs. Rather strange.
They've been fighting all kinds of things, dragons half-bred with deamons,
a LOT of people armed to their teeth and so on. Spearhawk even fights a big
troll-god armed with a tree-trunk. And does he get hurt? Oooohh, noooooo!
Bruised ribs? Bah!
/Petter
Ms Golda
One thing that I noticed is missing in the "un-hurt" lists is the guy (I am
horrible at names, please do forgive me!!) that was stuck in the
bedrock...with "un"injuries like that, who needs to get a head hacked off??
CarstAB
I heard Petter saying:
>characters have a
>tendency to never get hurt.
Death does not = hurt?
Umm... Sephriena stabbed through the heart?
I know I probably shouldn't reply, but hey, it didn't take very long, anyway.
-Polgarath
Those who refute reason have no way to reason that reason does not work!
PETTER MÅRTENSSON
Off course people get killed and hurt, but during ordinary fights not a lot
of people get wounded. At the end of the Malorean they are fighting a demon
crossed with a dragon. And nobody, except the gut who gets killed, is hurt.
Garion runs up the dragon's back! And he does nothing!
I'm not saying that nobody gets hurt. You seemed to interpret my post as if
NOBODY got hurt at all, not even in the many battles that are scattered
across the books. But think about it, it's not very common that people are
wounded severly.
/Petter
David Howe
On 1 Oct 1997 22:38:12 GMT, "PETTER MÅRTENSSON"
<fam.mar...@mbox303.swipnet.se> wrote:
>A strange thing about David Edding's books is that the characters have a
>tendency to never get hurt. I think the worst wound somebody has ever got
>was a pair of bruised ribs. Rather strange.
I seem to remember a fair few ailments dotted about the Belgariad -
Mandorallan had his ribs bashed (ok) and gained a limp fighting
murgos. The Grolim hirach (?sp) twisted a virtual knife in Durnik,
belgarath had a broken arm after a tree fell on him.
In the Elenium, wholesale mayhem was the order of the day, with
characters getting stabbed, knocked senseless, internal bleeding etc.
>They've been fighting all kinds of things, dragons half-bred with deamons,
>a LOT of people armed to their teeth and so on. Spearhawk even fights a big
>troll-god armed with a tree-trunk. And does he get hurt? Oooohh, noooooo!
>Bruised ribs? Bah!
>
>
>/Petter
>
__--== DHowe (is at) Tecsun.Demon.CoUk ==--__
Oscagne
David Howe <Webmaster@Tecsun> wrote in article
<3433abde...@news.demon.co.uk>...
> >They've been fighting all kinds of things, dragons half-bred with
deamons,
> >a LOT of people armed to their teeth and so on. Spearhawk even fights a
big
> >troll-god armed with a tree-trunk. And does he get hurt? Oooohh,
noooooo!
> >Bruised ribs? Bah!
> >
> >
> >/Petter
> >
Pardon me for responding to the response, but my newsreader never got the
original post...
Anyway... were you speaking of only the Bel/Mal? There were several
instances in the El/Tam where characters were so injured that their lives
were in peril. A couple I can think of off hand are the time Bevier was so
laid up Kurik had to wear his armor and the time a couple of them were so
injured Talen had to steal a wagon for them to be toted in. Not to mention
the fact that Kurik was killed at the end of the El.
They did seem to get injured, at bit, then.
--
CelOscagne High Priest of Skeptics and Cynics
To bypass the atans guarding my mailbox change Oscagne to McGrew and
tam.gov to lcc.net.
CelZakath
And what of Sephrenia, who was stabbed in the heart in tHC? Of the good
guys - Geran (both Ce'Nedra's son AND Gorek's grandson); Engessa, whose
head was smashed in. Kurik: killed, as was Durnik and, for that matter, as
was Toth. The six knights who died to keep Ehlana alive.
There are countless places where people get hurt... more so in the Ele/Tam,
but there are the places...
--
His Imperial Majesty Celzakath
Emperor of all Mallorea
High Priest of Kings and Emperors
Chatelaine of the Imperial Lounge
<drwe...@antispam.vic.edu.au>
Twin Ion Engine
Let's see, for the companions in Belgariad:-
Garion - nearly drowned when hit his head on a log; gored by wild boar;
poisoned and drugged
Silk - Ambushed by Kordoch and subsequently tortured
Durnik - Injured by Gorlim Hierarch, Died
Polgara - Fainted after "raise-the-wind" spell
Belgarath - Broke his arm; Camatose after fight with Ctuchik; Relapse of
injury when talking to Cho-Hag
Relg - Being sick on the way to Cthol Murgoes; Mainly "mental hurt" (open
skies) and Psychological hurt (UL "disapprove" him, "Don't-Touch-Me Syndrome,
and Taiba :)
Lelldorin - Poisonned by Algroth
Mandorallen - Minor injury during skirmish with Murgoes at Rak Cthol; Mental
and psychological "hurt" (Nerina, Discovering fear)
Barak - Injured in fight with Grul; M & P H : "The bear", Merel...
Ce'Nedra - Fever in Nyissa
About the only companion during the quest for the orb who has never been
injured is Hettar.
(BTW, I have deliberatly left out the battle and the minor characters)
Feel free to add any I left out...
WiL :)
*Replace imperial.navy.squadron with pacific.net.sg
to e-mail to me*
Zubrette
In message <613hjh$ct6$0...@dosa.alt.net> Twin Ion Engine wrote:
> Let's see, for the companions in Belgariad:-
> Garion - nearly drowned when hit his head on a log; gored by wild boar;
> poisoned and drugged
Plus mental torture from Asharak, (and, dare I say, Ce'Nedra?:+D)
<snip>
> About the only companion during the quest for the orb who has never been
> injured is Hettar.
Yes but in his youth he watched his mother and father die - mental
torture, I feel. Then wasn't he left for dead by the Murgos?
> Feel free to add any I left out...
Didn't Velvet get nastily bruised in a giant hailstone storm?
Just a few thoughts.
--
Zubrette
.. It all comes down to treating others as you want to be treated.
Sarabian
Majestically it rose from the earth, opened itself out and dropped a
message from "Oscagne" <Osc...@tam.gov>:
>Pardon me for responding to the response, but my newsreader never got the
>original post...
>
>Anyway... were you speaking of only the Bel/Mal? There were several
>instances in the El/Tam where characters were so injured that their lives
>were in peril. A couple I can think of off hand are the time Bevier was so
>laid up Kurik had to wear his armor and the time a couple of them were so
>injured Talen had to steal a wagon for them to be toted in. Not to mention
>the fact that Kurik was killed at the end of the El.
And if we are talking about an ordinary fight, how about when
Sparhawk and Kalten were in disguise and were ambushed by some
swordsman. Kalten got a huge cut down his side and they had to seek
the help of Platime.
Although Kalten pretended to be the black knight - hah, tis a mere
flesh wound. Come back I'll bit you to death :)
Sarabian
--
You can approach the throne and speak with His Majesty by changing
matherion.com to netcomuk.co.uk.
The Unofficially Unoffical AFE Web Page
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~pfreemn/afecodex.html
Ce'Nedra
In article <19971003....@sagitta.demon.co.uk>, Zubrette
<zubr...@sagitta.demon.co.uk> inscribed:
>In message <613hjh$ct6$0...@dosa.alt.net> Twin Ion Engine wrote:
>
>> Let's see, for the companions in Belgariad:-
>
>> Garion - nearly drowned when hit his head on a log; gored by wild boar;
>> poisoned and drugged
>Plus mental torture from Asharak, (and, dare I say, Ce'Nedra?:+D)
But who would say a thing like that! Garion does love our little
games... he just doesn't know it yet. :)
--
Ce'Nedra - Queen of the World
"I don't want to be reasonable. I want to kill Zandramas."
(No spamblockers in my header. Action will be gleefully taken against)
(anyone sending spam to me, or to any of my subscribed newsgroups.)
Zubrette
In message <yzpWpKAr...@brad-camb.demon.co.uk> Ce'Nedra wrote:
> >> Garion - nearly drowned when hit his head on a log; gored by wild boar;
> >> poisoned and drugged
> >Plus mental torture from Asharak, (and, dare I say, Ce'Nedra?:+D)
>
> But who would say a thing like that! Garion does love our little
> games... he just doesn't know it yet. :)
That's what I've been saying for years - but my boyfriend just
can't understand what I'm getting at!
But nice as it is - it is mental torture don't you think?
Just a nice kind of mental torture ... :)
--
Zubrette
Dom Wynn
Zubrette wrote:
>
> > >Plus mental torture from Asharak, (and, dare I say, Ce'Nedra?:+D)
> >
> > But who would say a thing like that! Garion does love our little
> > games... he just doesn't know it yet. :)
>
> That's what I've been saying for years - but my boyfriend just
> can't understand what I'm getting at!
> But nice as it is - it is mental torture don't you think?
> Just a nice kind of mental torture ... :)
>
> --
> Zubrette
<Dom pleading to the higher judge of AFE)
You see your honour! They actually do it on purpose! *and* they think
it's fun!!
<shudder>
<mutter>
womencantlivewithemcantlivewithoutthemmanipulativeharpiesallofthemmuttermutterblaspheme
</mutter>
sorry. My partner has been indulging recently in 'little games' (ie
mental torture). I think I am going to find rollo and have a bloody good
whinge to him about all the 'fun' women put men thru.
Dom
<off to find Rollo>
Zubrette
In message <343A4B...@conted.ox.ac.uk> Dom Wynn wrote:
<snip Ce'Nedra and Zubrette's discussion about mental torture ..>
>
> <Dom pleading to the higher judge of AFE)
> You see your honour! They actually do it on purpose! *and* they think
> it's fun!!
Yes ... and your point is ...? Of course we do ...
> <shudder>
> <mutter>
> womencantlivewithemcantlivewithoutthemmanipulativeharpiesallofthemmuttermutterblaspheme
> </mutter>
now where have I heard this before?
<taps finger against chin>
> sorry. My partner has been indulging recently in 'little games' (ie
> mental torture). I think I am going to find rollo and have a bloody good
> whinge to him about all the 'fun' women put men thru.
Poor Rollo. What's he done to deserve this?
Anyway, I bet he's on *our* side:+)
Anyway, the hay is calling.
Can't stand here all day giving away all our secrets.
--
Zubrette
.. Tiger! Tiger! Burning bright. Who has set your tail alight?
Aphrael
My keen divine ears detected several voices echoing through the halls of my
temple. upon investigation, I discovered that it was Ce'Nedra, Zubrette and
Dom Wynn, arguing thusly:
>> > >Plus mental torture from Asharak, (and, dare I say, Ce'Nedra?:+D)
>> >
>> > But who would say a thing like that! Garion does love our little
>> > games... he just doesn't know it yet. :)
>>
>> That's what I've been saying for years - but my boyfriend just
>> can't understand what I'm getting at!
>> But nice as it is - it is mental torture don't you think?
>> Just a nice kind of mental torture ... :)
>>
>> --
>> Zubrette
>
><Dom pleading to the higher judge of AFE)
>You see your honour! They actually do it on purpose! *and* they think
>it's fun!!
>
><shudder>
><mutter>
>womencantlivewithemcantlivewithoutthemmanipulativeharpiesallofthemmuttermut
terblaspheme
></mutter>
>
>sorry. My partner has been indulging recently in 'little games' (ie
>mental torture). I think I am going to find rollo and have a bloody good
>whinge to him about all the 'fun' women put men thru.
Grrrrrrrr......Please, do we really need to reinforce all these bloody
gender stereotypes? It's bad enough reading Eddings' warped perception of
the minds of women, without the women here adding credibility to it and the
men believing it. I personally am appalled by the notion of women and men
playing games with each other. Why the bloody hell can't people just plain
be HONEST with each other? It would probably avoid a hell of a lot of
heartache for both genders. I personally wouldn't even know how to play
games with men and have no desire to do so. I would rather simply tell a
man honestly how I feel. Although sometimes I wonder if maybe men actually
_prefer_ women who play stupid childish games with them, if they can't
handle women who are honest. I wonder if that's why I'm 23 years old and
have never had anything resembling a boyfriend. Goddess knows every guy to
whom I've ever confessed an interest in, has been completely uninterested. :+/
Aph
(who is sick and tired of spending Saturday nights alone)
-----
Aphrael, Child-Goddess of Styricum and devout disciple of Celine
Prayers received through "microserve.net" - please alter the header accordingly.
Aphrael's Isle - http://www.microserve.net/~aphrael/eddings.html
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Conservatives wouldn't even change their
underwear if they didn't have to."
--Aphrael, "The Shining Ones"
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
taz...@snet.net
Hi. I'm new...My name's Corey Tazzara and i'm 15. For a nickname, is
Zaketh taken?
I seem to recall Durnik getting killed...Does that constitute as being
hurt? Toth had a tough time with a demon...
Zubrette
In message <01bcd34f$21f1c0a0$6cba46cf@default> "Oscagne" wrote:
> Zubrette <zubr...@sagitta.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
> <19971007....@sagitta.demon.co.uk>...
>
> > That's what I've been saying for years - but my boyfriend just
> > can't understand what I'm getting at!
>
> complicated for him...
>
You don't know how *true* that comment is ...
--
Zubrette
.. "Oh Travis ... you're in a lot of trouble, Travis" - Servalan
Sarabian
Majestically it rose from the earth, opened itself out and dropped a
>Zubrette wrote:
>>
>> Zubrette
>> .. "Oh Travis ... you're in a lot of trouble, Travis" - Servalan
>
>aaaah. Blakes 7. <nostalgia>those were the days</nostalgia>
>nice sig.
Don't get me started on cheap but brilliant 80's British Sci-Fi :)
Sarabian
P.S. Zubrette: I liked your other .sig about Rimmer too
His father passed away peacefully in his jeep....err....sleep.
--
You can approach the throne and speak with His Majesty by changing
matherion.com to netcomuk.co.uk.
The Unofficially Unoffical AFE Web Page
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~pfreemn/afecodex.html
Last updated 4th October. AFE members - 26
CarstAB
Aphrael said:
>. I wonder if that's why I'm 23 years old and
>have never had anything resembling a boyfriend.
lucky.
Hmm... if we get anymore offtopic this should be moved to e-mail, probably.
Petter Mårtensson
This is how my thread ended up? Scary. What's up with you people? :-)
--
The Turtle Moves!
/Petter
Ce'Nedra
In article <1997100800...@mail.microserve.net>, Aphrael
<aph...@1000.styricum.sarsos.net> inscribed:
>My keen divine ears detected several voices echoing through the halls of my
>temple. upon investigation, I discovered that it was Ce'Nedra, Zubrette and
>Dom Wynn, arguing thusly:
>Grrrrrrrr......Please, do we really need to reinforce all these bloody
>gender stereotypes? It's bad enough reading Eddings' warped perception of
>the minds of women, without the women here adding credibility to it and the
>men believing it. I personally am appalled by the notion of women and men
>playing games with each other. Why the bloody hell can't people just plain
>be HONEST with each other? It would probably avoid a hell of a lot of
>heartache for both genders. I personally wouldn't even know how to play
>games with men and have no desire to do so. I would rather simply tell a
>man honestly how I feel. Although sometimes I wonder if maybe men actually
>_prefer_ women who play stupid childish games with them, if they can't
>handle women who are honest. I wonder if that's why I'm 23 years old and
>have never had anything resembling a boyfriend. Goddess knows every guy to
>whom I've ever confessed an interest in, has been completely uninterested. :+/
>
> Aph
>(who is sick and tired of spending Saturday nights alone)
Aphrael, I aplogise if my remark has caused a thread reinforcing such
stereotypes. It was meant to be a little joke, taken lightly, and to
show me acting in my adopted character for once.
The thread had stressed how women supposedly manipulate men too much -
personally I believe that yes, women are known to play games with men,
but no more than men are seen to play games with women, women playing
power games with other women, men doing the same, families, classees,
societies, etc. It's sad that people can't be honest, but you generally
find the people who are honest about these things are called 'gullible'
and 'naive' ( I speak from experience here) and quickly learn that
sometiems it's a lot less painful to hide how they really feel about
people/things.
Again, sorry if I touched a nerve.
Silk
It would probably avoid a hell of a lot of
>heartache for both genders. I personally wouldn't even know how to play
>games with men and have no desire to do so. I would rather simply tell a
>man honestly how I feel. Although sometimes I wonder if maybe men actually
>_prefer_ women who play stupid childish games with them, if they can't
>handle women who are honest. I wonder if that's why I'm 23 years old and
>have never had anything resembling a boyfriend. Goddess knows every guy to
>whom I've ever confessed an interest in, has been completely uninterested. :+/
>
> Aph
There's a delightful song by some pommie bande...I forget who...but
one of the lines says "Don't you know that the chase is always better
than the kill" Sometimes this is very true *grin*
But I agree with Aph...a little more honesty would lead to a lot less
heartache!
Silk
*Opinion's are like noses...everybody has one!*
To mail...remove the obvious! You all seem pretty smart, so I'm sure you'll figure it out! *grin*
Asl...@farmhouse.demos.com
From my kitchen window, I heard a voice. It was taz...@snet.net who
said:
>Hi. I'm new...My name's Corey Tazzara and i'm 15. For a nickname, is
>Zaketh taken?
Hi, Corey. Welcome to a.f.e. I'll be posting an updated list of
registered nicknames this evening for you to look through. We do have
a Zakath, though, and we've agreed to allow names too close that might
cause some confusion.
If you have some other choices, or once you look at the list you think
of one, write to me and let me know.
Aslade
... content in the service of Aphrael,
and honored to be little mother of a.f.e.
You can reach my kitchen by making my "demos.farmhouse" "cheerful"
a.f.e Netiquette at http://home.att.net/~marthalanclos/silver.htm
Aphrael
My keen divine ears detected a voice, echoing through the halls of my
Temple. Upon investigation, I discovered that it was Ce'Nedra,
extemporizing thusly:
>Aphrael, I aplogise if my remark has caused a thread reinforcing such
>stereotypes. It was meant to be a little joke, taken lightly, and to
>show me acting in my adopted character for once.
Sorry for flying off the handle, Ce'Nedra. It's nothing personal, just kind
of brought out one of the things that annoys me the most about Eddings'
writing. I just don't want to see men going around thinking that all women
are merciless manipulators, especially when so many already have that
misconception based on painful experiences they've had.
>The thread had stressed how women supposedly manipulate men too much -
>personally I believe that yes, women are known to play games with men,
>but no more than men are seen to play games with women, women playing
>power games with other women, men doing the same, families, classees,
>societies, etc.
Well, good, as long as we're acknowledging that playing games is a universal
tendency that men and women engage in pretty much equally. Believe me, I
know all too well about the games women play with other women. :+/ What
annoys me about Eddings, though, is that he doesn't go so much into the
games that _men_ often play in a relationship. Like we never see a man
conning a woman into sleeping with him. To hear Eddings tell it, women
manipulate men, but men never manipulate women, although they manipulate
other men (right, Silk?). And, unfortunately, a lot of nice guys think
that's really true. But it should also be known that, while either gender
can engage in game-playing with the opposite sex, neither gender does so all
the time, across the board, universally. To assume that to be the case
woudl be the grossest of stereotypes, and even Eddings doesn't make ALL of
his female characters ruthless manipulators (only about 95% of them).
>It's sad that people can't be honest, but you generally
>find the people who are honest about these things are called 'gullible'
>and 'naive' ( I speak from experience here) and quickly learn that
>sometiems it's a lot less painful to hide how they really feel about
>people/things.
I think that's because most people, in any relationship, can't handle being
told how someone really feels about them. For my part, I've only had one
friend in my entire life with whom I could be completely, totally, 100%
honest about anything, and that's probably because we've both been hurt so
much by the ruthless games women can play with each other that we've vowed
not to do that to each other. It's sad that people can't be honest more
often, because it's a wonderful experience to be able to share things
honestly with someone without fear. But you're 100% right when you say that
it can be very painful when you're honest with the wrong person.
>Again, sorry if I touched a nerve.
'Tis ok. Consider it forgotten.
/me extends an olive branch.
Aph
Aphrael
Vanan
Aphrael wrote:
> I just don't want to see men going around thinking that all women
>are merciless manipulators, especially when so many already have that
>misconception based on painful experiences they've had.
That's the honest truth. My cousin finally got married a couple of weeks
ago. Her new husband put off proposing to her for I think it was three years
becusae of a brief, painful former marriage.
>Like we never see a man
>conning a woman into sleeping with him.
Well, Kalten was originally leaning that way with Alean, until either
Mirtai or Ehlana told him to back off.
Vanan
David Howe
On Wed, 08 Oct 1997 22:33:29 GMT, sara...@matherion.com (Sarabian)
wrote:
>Majestically it rose from the earth, opened itself out and dropped a
>message from Dom Wynn <domini...@conted.ox.ac.uk>:
>
>>Zubrette wrote:
>>>
>>> Zubrette
>>> .. "Oh Travis ... you're in a lot of trouble, Travis" - Servalan
>>
>>aaaah. Blakes 7. <nostalgia>those were the days</nostalgia>
I particularly liked the way the characters would "teleport" into
their red outline, and "stagger" around outside it....
>>nice sig.
>
>Don't get me started on cheap but brilliant 80's British Sci-Fi :)
>
>Sarabian
>
>P.S. Zubrette: I liked your other .sig about Rimmer too
>His father passed away peacefully in his jeep....err....sleep.
>--
>You can approach the throne and speak with His Majesty by changing
>matherion.com to netcomuk.co.uk.
>The Unofficially Unoffical AFE Web Page
>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~pfreemn/afecodex.html
>Last updated 4th October. AFE members - 26
__--== DHowe (is at) Tecsun.Demon.CoUk ==--__
Velvet
Twin Ion Engine wrote:
>
> > [snip]
>
> >Eddings' work seems to avoid blatant sexuality. There's quite a few
> >references, but no so crudely done that they would offend sensitive
> >readers. Other Fantasy authors seem to include quite a bit -
> >Katherine Kerr comes to mind, seeing as I've just been reading some
> >of her books. There's incest, rape, infidelity and all manner of
> >other things included
>
> Err...Eddings books have that as well :- Aldreas and Alyssa (Incest);
> Alean (Rape) and Kurik (Infidelity) ...
>
But in Eddings' work the traumatic sexual events have generally happened
in the past, and we only hear of them in small segments - we don't
actually have to live through them & experience them with the
characters. IMHO, there's a big difference between feeling pain for
something that happened a while ago, to suffering the trauma of going
through it at the time. But you are right, I did forget about a couple
of these...
In some other stories I've read, the events are gone through with a fair
bit of gore and explicit detail, which, like I said, can offend some
people. But in Eddings' work, it tends to be more a case of allowing
the characters to have survived the trauma, and got on with their
lives. Alean in particular comes to mind, since she had quite obviously
dealt with it, but hadn't completely overcome the ordeal, ie. wanted
revenge. She was upset by it, but we were still shown that she had
survived and become the sweet maid that everyone loved. I find that a
lot more positive (and "nice") than if we'd actually witnessed it.
> >there, which doesn't detract from the story or anything, but I can
> >understand that some readers might be offended. I guess that's what
> >makes Eddings' work different for me - it's a fairly "nice" read, which
>
> Perhaps you are refering to Bel/Mel and even that, we have bestiality
> (that women with the child of a demon), human sacrifice and other
> stuff...
True, but we don't actually get very much detail here - just that there
was a woman giving birth that Pol had to "deal with". By including the
discussion between Ce'Nedra and Garion about it Eddings very carefully
avoids offending more sensitive readers, by treating the reader as if
they could only stand what Ce'Nedra could put up with.
The human sacrifices and other gory fight parts are a little more
graphic, but that seems to be fairly standard. Most people can put up
with a bit of description about a fight, but quite a few don't really
want to know exactly what went on with Ce'Nedra and Garion in the
bath...
:-) Velvet
Twin Ion Engine
>
>The human sacrifices and other gory fight parts are a little more
>graphic, but that seems to be fairly standard. Most people can put up
>with a bit of description about a fight, but quite a few don't really
>want to know exactly what went on with Ce'Nedra and Garion in the
>bath...
>
>:-) Velvet
Yeah. Sad that in many parts of the world, people are more comfortable seeing
people bashing each others up than two people do what is the most natural
thing.
Maybe it is a guys thing. Maybe what Eddings said in PtS about men in the
bedroom has some truth in it.
Salmissra9
Velvet wrote:
>There's incest, rape, infidelity and all manner of
>> >other things included
One case in point is the Incarnations series by Piers Anthony...I thoroughly
enjoyed the first book, and the second..but by about the third, it seemed that
I was reading a series about sex...and especially the rape part. I think
you're right...even if it IS in Eddings' books occasionally, it's done much
more tastefully than most, and not just for the shock value...
~Illessa~
~Step into my parlour, said the Spider to the Fly~
~There are a million ways to kill all the soft pieces of yourself~
~Suicide Blonde~
Varana
Velvet wrote:
<snip>
> The human sacrifices and other gory fight parts are a little more
> graphic, but that seems to be fairly standard. Most people can put up
>
> with a bit of description about a fight, but quite a few don't really
> want to know exactly what went on with Ce'Nedra and Garion in the
> bath...
>
> :-) Velvet
I can live without seeing what happened between Garion and Ce'Nedra
in the bath, but I'd've really liked to see what happpened between you
and Silk in the pool... now that would've been an interesting scene. :-)
Sometimes Sendarian prudishness Really gets on my nerves :-)
For myself, I like battle scenes, but while I really don't want to
know just how gory it got, I have some appreciation for sex scenes, even
when not strictly nessessary. Sadly, I reallize I don't speak for the
rest of the world.
--
"You're laughing at me," she accused him.
"Of course I am, Ce'Nedra. The Anadiles have been
laughing at the Borunes for thousands of years."
I'm sure you all know what isn't really part of my
e-mail address.
Varana
Velvet wrote:
<snip>
> The human sacrifices and other gory fight parts are a little more
> graphic, but that seems to be fairly standard. Most people can put up
>
> with a bit of description about a fight, but quite a few don't really
> want to know exactly what went on with Ce'Nedra and Garion in the
> bath...
>
> :-) Velvet
I can live without seeing what happened between Garion and Ce'Nedra
in the bath, but I'd've really liked to see what happpened between you
and Silk in the pool... now that would've been an interesting scene. :-)
Sometimes Sendarian prudishness Really gets on my nerves :-)
For myself, I like battle scenes, but while I really don't want to
know just how gory it got, I have some appreciation for sex scenes, even
when not strictly nessessary. Sadly, I reallize I don't speak for the
rest of the world.
Varana
Aphrael
My keen divine ears detected a voice, echoing through the halls of my
>Eddings' work seems to avoid blatant sexuality. There's quite a few
>references, but no so crudely done that they would offend sensitive
>readers. Other Fantasy authors seem to include quite a bit - Katherine
>Kerr comes to mind, seeing as I've just been reading some of her books.
>There's incest, rape, infidelity and all manner of other things included
>there, which doesn't detract from the story or anything, but I can
>understand that some readers might be offended. I guess that's what
>makes Eddings' work different for me - it's a fairly "nice" read, which
>is sometimes all I want...not to say that there isn't enough pain and
>anguish and bad things going on in the books, just that they seem (to
>me) to be written more euphemistically! Anyone know what I'm talking
>about???
I agree totally. Even High Hunt, which is by far the crudest of any Eddings
book, tends to cut the scene off right before the big event and then pick up
the action the next morning. But somehow I just can't picture Big Dave
writing a racy scene. He seems like the type who'd rather talk his way
around it with that sardonic sense of humor. And if you're looking for an
author who is more graphic, try Guy Gavriel Kay's _Tigana_. There are some
very explicit scenes in that book. His _A_Song_For_Arbonne_ is somewhat
less explicit, but still much more so than Eddings.
When it comes to graphic violence, though, um, you _have_ read the Elenium,
haven't you? There are a number of disturbingly graphic scenes, notably the
scene in Lady Bellina's torture chamber in TRK. And I wouldn't say that
cutting people's hearts out and roasting them is what you'd call a "nice"
read, either. Oddly enough, though, compared to other authors who are very
graphic, Eddings' stories never disturbed me as much, not even the Elenium
back when it was the only thing of his that I had read.
Twin Ion Engine
> [snip]
>Eddings' work seems to avoid blatant sexuality. There's quite a few
>references, but no so crudely done that they would offend sensitive
>readers. Other Fantasy authors seem to include quite a bit - Katherine
>Kerr comes to mind, seeing as I've just been reading some of her books.
>There's incest, rape, infidelity and all manner of other things included
Err...Eddings books have that as well :- Aldreas and Alyssa (Incest);
Alean (Rape) and Kurik (Infidelity) ...
>there, which doesn't detract from the story or anything, but I can
>understand that some readers might be offended. I guess that's what
>makes Eddings' work different for me - it's a fairly "nice" read, which
Perhaps you are refering to Bel/Mel and even that, we have bestiality (that
women with the child of a demon), human sacrifice and other stuff...
>is sometimes all I want...not to say that there isn't enough pain and
>anguish and bad things going on in the books, just that they seem (to
>me) to be written more euphemistically! Anyone know what I'm talking
>about???
>
>:-) Velvet
It must be the companions and their camaradie that draw your attention away
from the bleak things (The scene before Mel Zeth's plague comes to mind)
Like Silk once said : If we don't laugh at the world, we'll probably cry.
Velvet
Vanan wrote:
Aphrael wrote:
> >Like we never see a man
> >conning a woman into sleeping with him.
>
> Well, Kalten was originally leaning that way with Alean, until either
> Mirtai or Ehlana told him to back off.
>
> Vanan
Mirtai wouldn't let him go near Alean, but it was Sparhawk that had to
explain it to Kalten - him being a little short on intelligence (just
kidding) ;-P
Anyway, I thought there were quite a few times where you got the
impression that the characters weren't celibate, but it was never
explicitly stated. For some reason Silk comes to mind - never quite saw
him as being shy of women! And then there were some "professionals"
such as Bethra (the Huntress before Velvet), who were portrayed not so
much as prostitutes as very clever, charming women who were enjoying
themselves. The conception of Unrak (Barak's son) is a more negative
example of this, I guess.
Eddings' work seems to avoid blatant sexuality. There's quite a few
references, but no so crudely done that they would offend sensitive
readers. Other Fantasy authors seem to include quite a bit - Katherine
Kerr comes to mind, seeing as I've just been reading some of her books.
There's incest, rape, infidelity and all manner of other things included
there, which doesn't detract from the story or anything, but I can
understand that some readers might be offended. I guess that's what
makes Eddings' work different for me - it's a fairly "nice" read, which
Velvet
Varana wrote:
> I can live without seeing what happened between Garion and Ce'Nedra
> in the bath, but I'd've really liked to see what happpened between you
> and Silk in the pool... now that would've been an interesting scene. :-)
> Sometimes Sendarian prudishness Really gets on my nerves :-)
Seriously, I was certainly more curious about Silk and Velvet's poolside
rondevous than Ce'Nedra and Garion's actions in the bedroom. It's
probably the sort of characters - I found myself more interested in &
attracted to Silk & Velvet and characters like that because of their wit
and charm and intelligence...guess I just think they'd be more
inventive!
> For myself, I like battle scenes, but while I really don't want to
> know just how gory it got, I have some appreciation for sex scenes,
> even when not strictly nessessary. Sadly, I reallize I don't speak for
> the rest of the world.
Same, but in my case I think it's because I don't think I'll ever be
rushing around anywhere with a sword saving the world, whereas I find a
poolside seduction much more likely! Fantasy is good for allowing you
to escape your own world, I guess, but sometimes I like something I can
relate to <cheeky grin!>
Oh, Varana and Vanan: apologies for getting the names mixed up before.
My brain has been way overworked recently, so you may have noticed me
not making sense....
:-) Velvet
Silk
On Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:00:58 +1100, Velvet
<k.bul...@bohm.anu.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>> So when are you coming to seduce me?? *impudent grin*
>>
>
>Looking at your email address there does appear to be a rather nice
>stretch of water between your place and mine. However, I think that the
>Indian Ocean may be slightly too large for our purposes... ;-)
>
>:-) Velvet
*Sigh* Oh well, you can't say I didn't try!
Silk
>Same, but in my case I think it's because I don't think I'll ever be
>rushing around anywhere with a sword saving the world, whereas I find a
>poolside seduction much more likely! Fantasy is good for allowing you
>to escape your own world, I guess, but sometimes I like something I can
>relate to <cheeky grin!>
So when are you coming to seduce me?? *impudent grin*
Polgara
Velvet wrote:
>
> Twin Ion Engine wrote:
> >
> > > [snip]
> >
> > >references, but no so crudely done that they would offend sensitive
> > >readers.
In most situations, sex is *implied*, rather than being explicit,
forcing we, the readers, to USE OUR IMAGINATIONS which is one of
the charms of reading fantasy anyway.
what
> > >makes Eddings' work different for me - it's a fairly "nice" read,
Yes, these seem to be basically nice, decent people (as are the
members of this ng :-) ) and I believe that most people want to read
about nice people. It sort of reaffirms that nice is more normal than
rotten.
> By including the
> discussion between Ce'Nedra and Garion about it Eddings very carefully
> avoids offending more sensitive readers, by treating the reader as if
> they could only stand what Ce'Nedra could put up with.
I appreciate his restraint in *not* spelling it all out for us, even if
my darker side sometimes says, "Let's have some more details!"
>
> The human sacrifices and other gory fight parts are a little more
> graphic, but that seems to be fairly standard. Most people can put up
> with a bit of description about a fight, but quite a few don't really
> want to know exactly what went on with Ce'Nedra and Garion in the
> bath...
Actually, a problem I've had throughout the Mallorean (finally finished
re-reading it) is seeing Garion as a grown-up. I keep thinking of him
as a kid (and in one of the books, Polgara admits to the same problem),
so when he does "adult" things-- and I don't just mean in his relation-
ship with Ce'Nedra--it's a little jarring. Perhaps Eddings should have
been a little *less* restrained so it would be easier for me to
visualize Garion as a grown man. I keep trying to think back to how *I*
felt at those ages, but I always felt younger than my actual age
anyway. Still do........
Regards,
Pol
--
"Poor dears, they can't help it. They haven't got logical minds."
Mrs. Goodacre, "Busman's Honeymoon"
Velvet
Silk wrote:
>
> On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:13:22 +1100, Velvet
> <k.bul...@bohm.anu.edu.au> wrote:
>
> >Same, but in my case I think it's because I don't think I'll ever be
> >rushing around anywhere with a sword saving the world, whereas I find a
> >poolside seduction much more likely! Fantasy is good for allowing you
> >to escape your own world, I guess, but sometimes I like something I can
> >relate to <cheeky grin!>
>
> So when are you coming to seduce me?? *impudent grin*
>
Looking at your email address there does appear to be a rather nice
Zubrette
In message <3445517d...@news.is.co.za> Silk wrote:
> Velvet wrote:
> >>
> >> So when are you coming to seduce me?? *impudent grin*
>
> >Looking at your email address there does appear to be a rather nice
> >stretch of water between your place and mine. However, I think that the
> >Indian Ocean may be slightly too large for our purposes... ;-)
> >
> >:-) Velvet
>
> *Sigh* Oh well, you can't say I didn't try!
> Silk
Tut tut tut Silk ... is that your best offer?
What about all those boats you own? Okay, so they are
probably still full of beans but I'm sure Barak could
get the Seabird out of dock and sober up Greldik for
an old chum like you ...
Unless you don't really want to be seduced ...
Just sticking my 2pence worth in ...
--
Zubrette
.. "Interrogate the others just to make sure, and try not to kill them" - Servalan
Andrew J Stanford
When does Alean get raped?
Size Matters Not, But Do Not Underestimate The Power Of The Dark Side.
The Phoenix Will Never Have Its Fire Extinguished!!!!!!!!
Silk
>
>Tut tut tut Silk ... is that your best offer?
>What about all those boats you own? Okay, so they are
>probably still full of beans but I'm sure Barak could
>get the Seabird out of dock and sober up Greldik for
>an old chum like you ...
>Unless you don't really want to be seduced ...
>
>Just sticking my 2pence worth in ...
>
>--
>Zubrette
You've got a very clever mouth for one so young! *sour look*
You been entertaining anybody in that hay-loft of your lately?? heheh
Asl...@farmhouse.demos.com
From my kitchen window, I heard a voice. It was Andrew J Stanford
She tells of it happening when she first left home to go into service,
I think.
Andrew J Stanford
Thanks for that aslade, but I remembered after having sent the message,
it was good to wave some confirmation though.
Baron of Vo Mandor
Silk
>When does Alean get raped?
>
She tells the story of the nobleman that she worked for while she was
younger. He apparently used to take liberties that weren't really his
to take. Kalten vowed that he was going to kill this nobleman for
Alean. I can't remember the exact passage, but I think it was in the
Shining Ones somewhere.
Silk
Velvet
Twin Ion Engine wrote:
> Silk was almost fifty by that time. A grandfather by today or even
> ancient standards. Velvet is probably early to mid twenties. As far as
> Silk is concern, Velvet is still a braided child with a constant
> sniff-nose. That scene was Velvet's attempt to make Silk accept him as
> an adult rather as a child/young niece personality.
<hey look, Silk, we've got our own header now...think you'd better get
working on that boat soon!>
*sigh* I'm sorry, but I never think of Silk as an "old man", not even
in real life! Admitedly I don't know that many fifty-year-old men (who
aren't the fathers of my friends!), but Silk always struck me as having
the suave sophistication of a twenty-something, you know, before the
realities of the world really come crashing down on you? (or so I've
been told...). So I never saw Silk & Velvet as being that different in
age - possibly 10 years or so, but not much more. I almost had a
heart-attack when I read BtS, and he mentioned when all the Companions
were born, and Silk was one of the first. It's strange how you get
certain conceptions about things in books, which, although you know
they're wrong, stick with you for every other time you read them... I
find it the most with the names of places. For example, I always think
of "Nyissa" as "Nysia", with the "y" as in "baby"! And Lamorkand will
always and forever be "Lamorkland" to me, just because I initially
thought that's what it said when I first read it. (Although that one's
not so bad because I think it's mentioned in the books that that was the
original name of the country - obviously a bit of telepathy happening
there!) And characters names, as well. I noticed some time back that
there was a thread on the pronounciation of "C'Thol", but didn't want to
add my interpretation, considering that I can't even keep to the written
spellings of things, let alone the pronounciations! But I take the
point about the poolside scene representing a transitional phase. One
for Velvet!
:-) Velvet
Varana
Velvet wrote:
<snip>
> *sigh* I'm sorry, but I never think of Silk as an "old man", not even
>
> in real life! Admitedly I don't know that many fifty-year-old men
> (who
> aren't the fathers of my friends!), but Silk always struck me as
> having
> the suave sophistication of a twenty-something, you know, before the
> realities of the world really come crashing down on you? (or so I've
> been told...).
Very true, it's strange to theink that he's really that much older than
he acts. When you first meet him, you can see that he's a lot older that
Garion (who seems to be around Velvet's age), but he never seems to get
any older, while the younger generation (with the exception of Ce'Nedra)
grows up.
> So I never saw Silk & Velvet as being that different in
> age - possibly 10 years or so, but not much more.
You can see the age differance more when you see her in the Belgaraid
(though even then, you can see that Silk's met has match). And it's some
thing of an issue even in the Malloreon, but in a way, she isn't really
much younger.
<snip>
> It's strange how you get
> certain conceptions about things in books, which, although you know
> they're wrong, stick with you for every other time you read them... I
>
> find it the most with the names of places. For example, I always
> think
> of "Nyissa" as "Nysia", with the "y" as in "baby"! And Lamorkand will
>
> always and forever be "Lamorkland" to me, just because I initially
> thought that's what it said when I first read it. (Although that
> one's
> not so bad because I think it's mentioned in the books that that was
> the
> original name of the country - obviously a bit of telepathy happening
> there!) And characters names, as well.
I do this too, but since I discuss these thing out loud with my family,
I'm not allowed to keep my irrational pronounciations. I even change
some of my more rational ones (I used ot pronounce Arend like Errand,
but when I started discuessing it, I swiched the accent to the second
syllable.) And we have fights about some of these, too: the worst being
over Riva: Rye-va or Ree-va, closely followed by Cthol: Sthol of K'thol.
> I noticed some time back that
> there was a thread on the pronounciation of "C'Thol", but didn't want
> to
> add my interpretation, considering that I can't even keep to the
> written
> spellings of things, let alone the pronounciations!
I didn't either, because I'm afraid it would turn into a fight, and
it's bad enough at home. I find prounciation threads worse than casting
threads. (Which doesn't explain why I'm disscussing this now. Oh well.)
Bob & Christopher Blaney
Twin Ion Engine wrote:
> The analysis of the whole scene has to take the background into consideration.
> It was not purely a woman-seducing-man scene but a very much younger woman
> trying to seduce an older man.
>
> Silk was almost fifty by that time. A grandfather by today or even ancient
> standards. Velvet is probably early to mid twenties. As far as Silk is
> concern, Velvet is still a braided child with a constant sniff-nose. That
> scene was Velvet's attempt to make Silk accept him as an adult rather as a
> child/young niece personality.
>
> Perhaps that really boils down the issue. Many of the "women trapping men"
> scenes were actually younger women trying to "trap" and older bachelor
> (probably due to his past records of womanising).
>
> E.g. Velvet-Silk, Danae-Talen, Ehlana-Sparhawk.
>
> On the other hand, couples with less age differences tend to go through a more
> "normal" form of courtship (unless they are arranged marriage)
>
> E.g. Ce'Nedra-Garion, Lelldorin-Ariana, Mandorallen-Nerina.
>
> WiL :)
>
> *Replace imperial.navy.squadron with pacific.net.sg
> to e-mail to me*
Fine analysis; but there is one exception to it, I think.
Polgara is some three thousand three hundred thirty years older than Goodman
Durnik -- would you classify this as a "normal" courtship or an "older-younger
seduction"? We do know that Durnik was a little troubled by the age difference
(cf. "Guardians of the West", Chapter One) between him and his bride, but the
equalization of their powers that was a prelude to their matrimony muted that
objection quite a bit -- especially because appearance-wise, she looked no older
than her mid-thirties, in all likelihood.
In a parenthetical note, after reading "Polgara the Sorceress", I find it
extremely difficult to believe she, a very attractive and powerful woman, never
engaged in sexual activity of any sort until friend Durnik came along. Yet that is
the impression that she gives in her memoir. She only writes about one planned
seduction, of her Wacite friend Ontrose, and that one was a failure -- events
intervened. Either the Prophecy, or her mother, or her own self-restraint, kept
her from engaging in such activity personally. I could imagine, after arranging
and organizing literally scores of relationships, the hormonal sacrifice she must
have gone through. Such was the nature of her task. Yet her father was able to
satisfy himself throughout most of his entire span of years. That was probably one
of the sticking points between father and daughter. <g>
Chris Blaney
Michelle Kenyon (Beldaran)
Varana wrote:
> I do this too, but since I discuss these thing out loud with my family,
> I'm not allowed to keep my irrational pronounciations. I even change
> some of my more rational ones (I used ot pronounce Arend like Errand,
> but when I started discuessing it, I swiched the accent to the second
> syllable.) And we have fights about some of these, too: the worst being
> over Riva: Rye-va or Ree-va, closely followed by Cthol: Sthol of K'thol.
This reminds me of my own experience. I first read the Belgariad when I
was in high school, and my brother and sister both read it about the
same time. While we found that we mostly pronounced things the same, we
had some strong (but friendly) disagreements over some--particularly the
pronunciation of Riva. None of us said "Rye-va", though. My brother
and sister said "Ree-va", and I said "Riv-va" (kind of like saying
"river" with a New York accent). Several years ago, though, I asked
Shelly Shapiro on Compuserve how Eddings pronounces it, and he said that
Eddings says "Ree-va", so I changed. It was very difficult, though (I
was so used to saying it the other way), and I still find myself saying
"Riv-va" some times.
I say Arend like "Errand", though. The other way seems funny to me,
even though I say Arendia with the accent on the second syllable (not
all nationalities are pronounced the same as the country--think of
Canada and Canadian, for instance). With Cthol, I used to say something
like "Shthol", but I have since given up on that and act like the C is
silent ("Thol").
I admit some of my pronunciations aren't particularly consistent, but I
say them the way it seems to me that they should be said. (For instance,
I say Belgarath with the accent on the second syllable "bell-GARE-ath",
because the "Bel" was added to his name, but I say Beldaran with the
accent on the first syllable "BELL-da-ran", because IMO in that case,
the bel isn't an add-on, and yours truly isn't a sorcerer.) This could
all get confusing, I guess, but my pronunciations make sense to me.
Sometimes I wish Eddings would come out with a pronunciation guide (in
the Rivan Codex, perhaps?), but then, sometimes I don't (I'm too lazy to
learn new pronunciations if I turn out to be wrong!) :)
Beldaran (of the twisted tongue)
Velvet
Silk wrote:
> Pretty cool huh? I've never had a thread named after me before *grin*
> I spoke to Barak and he says anytime I need a boat, just to call on
> him! So there you go...now, what's your excuse?
>
I believe it was you who was looking for excuses.... If I remember
correctly, I knew exactly what I wanted the whole way along. And I got
it. <grin>
Don't know whether I'd trust Barak's great cow of a boat, though. Maybe
you should go find one of your bean boats again. But, oh dear me, that
would be _honest_, and we couldn't have that, now could we???
:-) Velvet
Twin Ion Engine
In article <344ABD7A...@goes.com>, chan...@goes.com wrote:
>
>
> Fine analysis; but there is one exception to it, I think.
>
>Polgara is some three thousand three hundred thirty years older than Goodman
>Durnik -- would you classify this as a "normal" courtship or an "older-younger
>seduction"? We do know that Durnik was a little troubled by the age difference
>(cf. "Guardians of the West", Chapter One) between him and his bride, but the
>equalization of their powers that was a prelude to their matrimony muted that
>objection quite a bit -- especially because appearance-wise, she looked no
> older
>than her mid-thirties, in all likelihood.
In all of Eddings' books, there are only two older-women-younger-men pairings.
In both cases, the women are portrayed to be no more than early thirties while
the men are at least forty. I'd classified that as "normal" as evident that
the women need not go out and "trap" the men.
In retrospect, don't you think Eddings did not portray older women in his
fantasy novels very well? He seem to consider them crones. I would be very
impress with his writings if the likes of Salmissra or Ehlana can really on
their powers or political skills instead of being pretty as well. Not that I
have anything against pretty girls. :)
>
>In a parenthetical note, after reading "Polgara the Sorceress", I find it
>extremely difficult to believe she, a very attractive and powerful woman, never
>engaged in sexual activity of any sort until friend Durnik came along. Yet that
> is
>the impression that she gives in her memoir. She only writes about one planned
>seduction, of her Wacite friend Ontrose, and that one was a failure -- events
>intervened. Either the Prophecy, or her mother, or her own self-restraint, kept
>her from engaging in such activity personally. I could imagine, after arranging
>and organizing literally scores of relationships, the hormonal sacrifice she
> must
>have gone through. Such was the nature of her task. Yet her father was able to
>satisfy himself throughout most of his entire span of years. That was probably
> one
>of the sticking points between father and daughter. <g>
>
>Chris Blaney
>
In the first premise, I can see Eddings is a very conservative author or at
least his hero characters are your "traditional" conservatives. His females
will always be virgins before marriage and his males are perfect gentlemen. I
don't think he will have it another way.
In the second premise, let's say for the sake of arguing in the story's
context, do you think the eternal Polgara is going to write about her sexual
exploits for the sake of the next Rivan King? After all, it is a family
history sort of thing, not an erotic book. Even Belgarath hems and haws of his
"adventures" in the Woods of Dryads and Maragor, let alone Polgara, who is
much more "prim and proper" than her father.
Finally, the last premise is the readers' appeal. People generally accepts a
womanising bachelor hero (e.g. James Bond with his Bond girls) but is there
such a thing as a "manising spinster heroine"? (A "Jane" Bond with her Bond
guys?). Think about it.
Mandorallen
On 19 Oct 1997, Vanan wrote:
> Varana wrote:
>
> > You can see the age differance more when you see her in the Belgaraid
> >(though even then, you can see that Silk's met has match). And it's some
> >thing of an issue even in the Malloreon, but in a way, she isn't really
> >much younger.
>
> ? Was Liselle even mentioned in the Belgariad?
>
> Vanan
>
>
I think she was, becaus at some point some of the go to see Javelin, and
Liselle is there, helping with the filing, or something.
Of course, I might just be confusing this with a scene from the Mal.
Baron of Vo Mandor
Polgara
Velvet wrote:
> *sigh* I'm sorry, but I never think of Silk as an "old man", not even
> in real life! Admitedly I don't know that many fifty-year-old men (who
> aren't the fathers of my friends!), but Silk always struck me as having
> the suave sophistication of a twenty-something, you know, before the
> realities of the world really come crashing down on you? (or so I've
> been told...). So I never saw Silk & Velvet as being that different in
> age - possibly 10 years or so, but not much more.
<snipping interesting pronunciation discussion, but not applicable to
the point I'm addressing :-) >
I think it's more likely that Silk is one of those happy people who
is always young at heart. The kind of person who, for example, enjoyed
the Beatles or Buddy Holly when he was truly young, yet, 30 or 40 years
later, equally enjoys Chumbawumba (or similar newer group). <Forgive me
for putting this comparison into modern, RL terms, but I was trying to
make this point clear.>
When a person ages in years, but does not fossilize (and we all know
people who have fossilized), age is irrelevant (to quote a Borg I know-
sorry, OT). These people are equally at home with people their own age,
people years older, OR people years younger. I believe (excuse me,
Velvet, if I have this wrong) that this is why Velvet was attracted to
Silk. His age was immaterial to who he was, and he didn't define
himself by his age but by his interests. She was able to see him for
*who* he was, without being distracted by a petty :-) age difference.
Regards,
Polgara (who had a far more serious age difference with Durnik which I
won't get into here....yet)
Silk
>Don't know whether I'd trust Barak's great cow of a boat, though. Maybe
>you should go find one of your bean boats again. But, oh dear me, that
>would be _honest_, and we couldn't have that, now could we???
>
Dishonesty is such a nasty word...can't we rather use "bending the
rules a little"?
Silk
>
><hey look, Silk, we've got our own header now...think you'd better get
>working on that boat soon!>
>
Pretty cool huh? I've never had a thread named after me before *grin*
I spoke to Barak and he says anytime I need a boat, just to call on
him! So there you go...now, what's your excuse?
Andrew Shore (Jaycey)
I have a few nits to pick (it's what we monkeys do for our friends, after
all):
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Twin Ion Engine wrote:
>
> In retrospect, don't you think Eddings did not portray older women in his
> fantasy novels very well? He seem to consider them crones. I would be very
> impress with his writings if the likes of Salmissra or Ehlana can really on
> their powers or political skills instead of being pretty as well. Not that I
> have anything against pretty girls. :)
Pause for thought... Ehlana = older woman? Are you blathering, or have I
missed something crucial?
For Ehlana, her beauty is a political tool, and one she uses very well
(see the election of the High-Wotsit in the Elene church).
I don't remember Salmissra being very intelligent; it's part of her
stereotype not to be. Nor is she put across as being particularly
_attractive_; Garion's reactions get in the way of my seeing her in that
light.
> In the first premise, I can see Eddings is a very conservative author or at
> least his hero characters are your "traditional" conservatives. His females
> will always be virgins before marriage and his males are perfect gentlemen. I
> don't think he will have it another way.
I'll agree DE is quite conservative in his writing (hence the cries of
'give me more sex!' to be found on this NG), but you're saying Silk is a
perfect gentleman (apologies, Silk, but would you have it any other way?).
Even accepting Silk as an application of the Bachelor stereotype you
talked about later in your posting, what about Taiba and Relg?
Just some thoughts on what is becoming a rather silly thread (Eddings
being a traditionalist, where's the love in all this, anyway?),
Jaycey {:->
--------------------------------
He who can, does,
He who can't, teaches.
He who shouldn't, writes e-mail.
--------------------------------
Aphrael
My keen Divine ears detected a voice echoing through the halls of my
Temple. Upon investigation, I discovered that it was Varana
<carol...@tol.honeth.aol.com>, articulating thusly:
> She is discribed as beautiful, and I've thuoght of her as such; of
>course, I've largely forgotten Garion's reaction to her, and naturally
>someone raised in Sendaria would not find the Nyisssan idea of beauty
>attractive.
Ah, but I seem to remember when Ce'Nedra asked Garion what Salmissra
was like, after Pol and Barak rescued him from her palace in QoS,
Garion replied, "She's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen" (or
something to that effect). Which, of course, p****d Ce'Nedra off
quite a bit. :+)
>What about: Bethra, Arissa, Salmissra, Zandramas, Chabat, Naween,
>Elysoun, Tamazin (well, she was married to someone else) the Dryads, the
>Marags... anybody else?
You know, this brings up another point that's always bugged me. Why
is it that all female villains have to be sluts? I mean, you never
hear anything about the sexual habits of Zedar, Ctuchik, Krager,
Martel, etc., but whenever a woman is either a full-blown baddie
(Arissa, Zandramas, Chabat) or questionable (Salmissra), she always
has to be a slut. Sure, there are some male villains who have notable
sexual appetites, particularly in the E/T (Otha, Zalasta, Annias), but
it's not so universal with the men as it is with the women. Why do
you think this is?
> "Perfect gentleman" is a little hard to define.
I think the definition of "perfect gentleman" in operation here is a
man who separates the "romp in the sack" women from the potential-wife
material. You know, the classic sexist stereotype. Or, more
accurately, a man who doesn't _pressure_ a woman he respects to sleep
with him or get fresh with her against her will--not to say he
couldn't potentially be seduced if that woman tried hard enough (this
is where Silk and Velvet fall, IMO).
Aph
------------------
Aphrael, Child-Goddess of Styricum and devout disciple of Celine
To send e-mail, change the part after the @ to "microserve.net"
Aphrael's Isle - http://www.microserve.net/~aphrael/eddings.html
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Conservatives wouldn't even change their
underwear if they didn't have to."
--Aphrael, "The Shining Ones"
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Velvet
Varana wrote:
> Wonder how fammiliar Velvet was with men?
Interesting question. From the time that she's first introduced you get
the impression that she's after Silk (or I did, anyway). I always
thought she was fairly single-minded, so I don't know if she would have
had any "side-trips" before she caught Silk. But... maybe she would
have viewed them as practice, or part of the job or something?? I just
can't see her falling in love (or lust) with anyone else. But I also
can't imagine that she didn't know exactly what she was doing when she
was after Silk, which would indicate some sort of prior experience. Any
suggestions???
:-) Velvet
Velvet
Silk wrote:
> > But, oh dear me, that would be _honest_, and we couldn't have that,
> > now could we???
> >
>
> Dishonesty is such a nasty word...can't we rather use "bending the
> rules a little"?
>
> Silk
<dimples> What's the matter, Silk...can't face up to reality, and have
to hide behind euphemisms like that? If you can't handle what you do,
maybe you should retire, and give the job over to someone more
capable... </dimples>
:-) Velvet
Silk
>
><dimples> What's the matter, Silk...can't face up to reality, and have
>to hide behind euphemisms like that? If you can't handle what you do,
>maybe you should retire, and give the job over to someone more
>capable... </dimples>
>
*Phhhbbbbtt!* Who's more capable than me?? And do you have to do
that??
Varana
Aphrael wrote:
> Ah, but I seem to remember when Ce'Nedra asked Garion what Salmissra
> was like, after Pol and Barak rescued him from her palace in QoS,
> Garion replied, "She's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen" (or
> something to that effect). Which, of course, p****d Ce'Nedra off
> quite a bit. :+)
As I mentioned, I've fergotten that scene almose entirely, so I was
just taking the person I was responding to's word for it... guess it's
time to re-read the Belgariad.
> You know, this brings up another point that's always bugged me. Why
> is it that all female villains have to be sluts? I mean, you never
> hear anything about the sexual habits of Zedar, Ctuchik, Krager,
> Martel, etc., but whenever a woman is either a full-blown baddie
> (Arissa, Zandramas, Chabat) or questionable (Salmissra), she always
> has to be a slut. Sure, there are some male villains who have notable
>
> sexual appetites, particularly in the E/T (Otha, Zalasta, Annias), but
>
> it's not so universal with the men as it is with the women. Why do
> you think this is?
I think it's because sex is one of the main ways women get power in
a society such as the ones Eddings writes about, and a woman who takes
power that way is considered evil. With the male villains, their sexual
appatites tend to be something of a sideline of little note. But with
Arissa, Zandramas and Chabat, it's the nessary basis of their career as
badies.
Salmissra is something of an exception: her sexual appiatite is an
aspect of the drugs she takes, and is a way of controlling her. It also
plays a major role in establishing the Nyissans as "a contemptable
people" as Sadi says somewhere.
--Varana
Twin Ion Engine
>
>You know, this brings up another point that's always bugged me. Why
>is it that all female villains have to be sluts? I mean, you never
>hear anything about the sexual habits of Zedar, Ctuchik, Krager,
>Martel, etc., but whenever a woman is either a full-blown baddie
>(Arissa, Zandramas, Chabat) or questionable (Salmissra), she always
>has to be a slut. Sure, there are some male villains who have notable
>sexual appetites, particularly in the E/T (Otha, Zalasta, Annias), but
>it's not so universal with the men as it is with the women. Why do
>you think this is?
>
Exactly my point. This runs a perfect counter-view towards the "virginal"
heroines. Eddings' books has always try to go for the simplest views : simple
magic system, simple good vs bad story and a simple heroes vs villians
stereotypes. Of course, Elen/Tam is a little murkier but the basic heroes and
villians stereotypes are there. The villians in general usually have bad
habits : Martel is prideful, Arissa is lustful, Annias is ruthlessly
ambitious, Krager is a drunkard, Adus is stupid, Otha is lazy, etc....
>> "Perfect gentleman" is a little hard to define.
>
>I think the definition of "perfect gentleman" in operation here is a
>man who separates the "romp in the sack" women from the potential-wife
>material. You know, the classic sexist stereotype. Or, more
>accurately, a man who doesn't _pressure_ a woman he respects to sleep
>with him or get fresh with her against her will--not to say he
>couldn't potentially be seduced if that woman tried hard enough (this
>is where Silk and Velvet fall, IMO).
>
> Aph
>------------------
Perfect gentlemen as far as I am concern (in terms of dealing with women), are
guys who respect themselves and respect women in general. Sparhawk's attitude
towards Naween's and Arissa's "offer" is an example.
Silk
>
>I'll agree DE is quite conservative in his writing (hence the cries of
>'give me more sex!' to be found on this NG), but you're saying Silk is a
>perfect gentleman (apologies, Silk, but would you have it any other way?).
>
No problem old bean! We all have our little vices! *grin*
Twin Ion Engine
This usually happens when I can think much faster than I can type. So here
goes the clearing up.
In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.971020190343.12150E-100000@holly>, "Andrew Shore
(Jaycey)" <ma...@csv.warwick.Elric.ac.uk> wrote:
>I have a few nits to pick (it's what we monkeys do for our friends, after
>all):
>
>On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Twin Ion Engine wrote:
>
>>
>> In retrospect, don't you think Eddings did not portray older women in his
>> fantasy novels very well? He seem to consider them crones. I would be very
>> impress with his writings if the likes of Salmissra or Ehlana can really on
>> their powers or political skills instead of being pretty as well. Not that I
>> have anything against pretty girls. :)
>
>Pause for thought... Ehlana = older woman? Are you blathering, or have I
>missed something crucial?
>
No no no no .... What I mean is that, had Ehlana been portrayed as an older
woman (someone Sparhawk's age for example) but with good political skills, at
least we will have *one* example of older women being portrayed in a more
positive light. Right now, Ehlana is another gorgeous and young girl with
high political skills.
That is, as far as women Eddings' books is concerned, they have to be
beautiful first, then young, then comes their various good points (skills,
talents etc..). Otherwise, they are usually relegated to supporting or
villianious roles.
>For Ehlana, her beauty is a political tool, and one she uses very well
>(see the election of the High-Wotsit in the Elene church).
>
Nope, despite her youth and beauty, it is always her political skills that
makes her the monarch she is. Make no mistake when she gives you a winsome
smile. :)
>I don't remember Salmissra being very intelligent; it's part of her
>stereotype not to be. Nor is she put across as being particularly
>_attractive_; Garion's reactions get in the way of my seeing her in that
>light.
>
>> In the first premise, I can see Eddings is a very conservative author or at
>> least his hero characters are your "traditional" conservatives. His females
>> will always be virgins before marriage and his males are perfect gentlemen. I
>
>> don't think he will have it another way.
>
>I'll agree DE is quite conservative in his writing (hence the cries of
>'give me more sex!' to be found on this NG), but you're saying Silk is a
>perfect gentleman (apologies, Silk, but would you have it any other way?).
>
>Even accepting Silk as an application of the Bachelor stereotype you
>talked about later in your posting, what about Taiba and Relg?
>
>Just some thoughts on what is becoming a rather silly thread (Eddings
>being a traditionalist, where's the love in all this, anyway?),
>
>Jaycey {:->
>
>
Actually, I was refering to his lead characters. Silk's exploits can hardly be
called heroic. He is after all a cheat and a liar. (No offence) I'm talking
specifically about Garion, Sparhawk, Ce'Nedra, Ehlana, Polgara and Durnik. The
others are really "sidekicks". Of course there will be exceptions like
Belgarath the thief and scoundrel.
Andrew Shore (Jaycey)
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Varana wrote:
> Andrew Shore (Jaycey) wrote:
>
> > ..... (hence the cries of
> > 'give me more sex!' to be found on this NG),
>
> Naturally, you're refering to someone else? That's not really a very
> nice way of putting it.
- Maybe I was reading my own opinions into other people's e-mail. So
it's not a nice way of putting it, granted, but better to be blunt than to
dance around the point.
- Once again, my humblest apologies if I do offend.
Yarblek
On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Michelle Kenyon (Beldaran) wrote:
> Sometimes I wish Eddings would come out with a pronunciation guide (in
> the Rivan Codex, perhaps?), but then, sometimes I don't (I'm too lazy to
> learn new pronunciations if I turn out to be wrong!) :)
>
> Beldaran (of the twisted tongue)
>
I would have problems with a pronounciation guide.
I just pronounce the names like I feel they should be pronounced...
It's nice to discuss about different pronounciations, but to learn
completely new ones...
I had this problem with Tolkien.
I read LotR, found my own pronounciations and after that found this guide
about the real pronounciations (I still don't know what to use for some
names).
Yarblek
---
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
Lisa McKay
Aphrael wrote in message <62h6du$o2p$1...@news3.microserve.net>...
<big snip>
>You know, this brings up another point that's always bugged me. Why
>is it that all female villains have to be sluts? I mean, you never
>hear anything about the sexual habits of Zedar, Ctuchik, Krager,
>Martel, etc., but whenever a woman is either a full-blown baddie
>(Arissa, Zandramas, Chabat) or questionable (Salmissra), she always
>has to be a slut. Sure, there are some male villains who have notable
>sexual appetites, particularly in the E/T (Otha, Zalasta, Annias), but
>it's not so universal with the men as it is with the women. Why do
>you think this is?
I think it's because our society has a lot of trouble accepting the notion
of
women being or behaving in an 'evil' or 'bad' way with regards to anything
other than sex. I didn't put that very well, let me try again.
The way I see it is that traditionally women are/have been portrayed as
'good'
(or incapable of acts of evil intent - cold blooded murder, violence, child
abuse etc.). In the Dark Ages during Witch Hunts - even though these women
were accused of vile acts of sacrifice, etc, the Witch Finders still found
it
necessary to also accuse them of having sex with the devil, so women being
sexually active became associated with other forms of evil behaviour.
I also think that the old double standards of what is acceptable sexual
behaviour for
each gender are still around - despite feminism, despite the free love ethos
of the
sixties.
(I'm sure I could have made my point here clearer but I don't have enough
caffeine in
my system yet)!
Lisa
Velvet
Silk wrote:
>
> ><dimples> What's the matter, Silk...can't face up to reality, and
> >have to hide behind euphemisms like that? If you can't handle what
> >you do, maybe you should retire, and give the job over to someone
> >more capable... </dimples>
> >
> *Phhhbbbbtt!* Who's more capable than me?? And do you have to do
> that??
>
> Silk
<wide eyes and dimples> Do what, oh masterful Guide? I really don't
have any idea of what you are talking about. Maybe you should go lie
down or something - I understand that sometimes men your age need a
rest, especially when they feel threatened...
:-) Velvet
Varana
Twin Ion Engine wrote:
> That is, as far as women Eddings' books is concerned, they have to be
> beautiful first, then young, then comes their various good points
> (skills,
> talents etc..). Otherwise, they are usually relegated to supporting or
>
> villianious roles.
Come to think of it, how many old, ugly woman villains are there in
Eddings? I can't really think of any.
--Varana
Laurel Fan
Excerpts from netnews.alt.fan.eddings: 20-Oct-97 Re: Pronunciation
Fights (w.. by Twin Ion Engine@imperial
>
> You know what would be nice? Produce a CD-ROM edition containing the
>correct pronunciation of all the make-believe names. I don't believe
this >qualifies as any money-making commercial practice which Eddings
himself >abhored.
>
Because Eddings' books are as popular as they are, there probably are
audio books editions somewhere. Hopefully, the performers in these kept
to Eddings' intentions more than some of the cover artists :)...
_____
v Laurel Fan
.|, lf...@andrew.cmu.edu
-o- http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~lf25/home.html
'|` "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,
^ not tried it." --Donald Knuth
Oscagne
Aphrael <aph...@1000.styricum.sarsos.net> wrote in article
<62h6du$o2p$1...@news3.microserve.net>...
> Sure, there are some male villains who have notable
> sexual appetites, particularly in the E/T (Otha, Zalasta, Annias),
Ahem... Baron Harparin.
> Aph
--
CelOscagne High Priest of Skeptics and Cynics
To bypass the atans guarding my mailbox change Oscagne to McGrew and
tam.gov to lcc.net.
Simon Nickerson
Please excuse the non-PC terms. I could recast this message in
graceless bureaucratic prose if need be <g>, but I hope it isn't
necessary.
A frolicsome rabbit informed me that Varana <carol...@tol.honeth.
aol.com> had been posting to a.f.e again:
> Come to think of it, how many old, ugly woman villains are there in
>Eddings? I can't really think of any.
If we're being accurate to the times, there shouldn't be all that many
old people alive at all (with the exception of those with supernatural
talents like Belgarath, Polgara, Sephrenia, Otha etc...) As far as I'm
aware, the life expectancy in mediaeval times was significantly lower
than it is now.
However, there is of course a scope for differences from real life (B/M
and E/T are after all fictitious worlds, and DE is perfectly at liberty
to invent any set of circumstances he pleases).
Thinking about it from a different perspective, there aren't all that
many woman villains (let alone old woman villains). Arissa, Chabat and
Zandramas are the only ones I can think of offhand (and Arissa isn't
all *that* young, since she was the mother of Lycheas).
--
Celsimon (High Priest of Happy Bunnies)
I have some happy bunnies protecting me from spam e-mails.
To send mail, please ask them nicely to go away.
Sarabian
Majestically it rose from the earth, opened itself out and dropped a
message from Simon Nickerson <Si...@sigma.demon.co.happy.bunnies.uk>:
>Please excuse the non-PC terms.
It took me a while to work out what you meant. I was looking for some
UNIX code or something :)
>If we're being accurate to the times, there shouldn't be all that many
>old people alive at all (with the exception of those with supernatural
>talents like Belgarath, Polgara, Sephrenia, Otha etc...) As far as I'm
>aware, the life expectancy in mediaeval times was significantly lower
>than it is now.
Have I, in my flu induced fever, mis-remembered the fact that Cherek,
Dras, Riva and Algar lived far longer than ppl of today(by which I
mean Garion's era)? I can remember nothing in BtS(or Pts) to back
this up in any way (the opposite in fact).
So, I was wondering, was this a mythical memory on my part, or a
mythical story told in the Belgariad?
Sarabian
--
You can approach the throne and speak with His Majesty by changing
matherion.com to netcomuk.co.uk.
The Unofficially Unoffical AFE Web Page
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~pfreemn/afecodex.html
Last updated 4th October. AFE members - 26
Asl...@farmhouse.demos.com
From my kitchen window, I heard a voice. It was Sarabian's messenger,
with the following missive:
>Have I, in my flu induced fever, mis-remembered the fact that Cherek,
>Dras, Riva and Algar lived far longer than ppl of today(by which I
>mean Garion's era)? I can remember nothing in BtS(or Pts) to back
>this up in any way (the opposite in fact).
Cherek Bear-Shoulders was 23 when Dras was born; about 25 for Algar;
and 27 when Riva was born. Belgarath went to the celebration the
summer Riva was 18, and it was that winter that they came to meet him
to retrieve the orb. That puts Cherek at 45 at the time. Cherek went
home to find his wife had died, remarried, and raised another family.
Riva Iron-Grip was nearing 60 when Beldaran died, and he followed her
some 6 or 7 years later. Around the time of Beldaran's death, mention
was still being made of Dras and Algar, who would have been 64 and 62
respectively at that time. I couldn't find any further references to
ages, and after Riva's death, Belgarath mentions how he and Pol rarely
talk of those who were so much a part of their lives and are now gone.
>So, I was wondering, was this a mythical memory on my part, or a
>mythical story told in the Belgariad?
I'm trying to re-read the Bel now. If I find more on ages, I'll let
you know.
Aslade
... content in the service of Aphrael,
Honored to be little mother of a.f.e.
Keeper of the alias scrolls.
You can reach my kitchen by making my "demos.farmhouse" "cheerful"
a.f.e Netiquette at http://home.att.net/~marthalanclos/silver.htm
Barry Calfee
In article <XXRbqdAR...@sigma.demon.co.uk>, Simon Nickerson <Si...@sigma.demon.co.happy.bunnies.uk>
<19971012194...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
<3442AF...@bohm.anu.edu.au> <61vinr$8l0$1...@dosa.alt.net>
<344360...@bohm.anu.edu.au> <34442C1B...@tol.honeth.aol.com>
<3444B3...@bohm.anu.edu.au> <3449698A...@tol.honeth.aol.com>
<344971...@bohm.anu.edu.au> <62clnm$ct4$1...@dosa.alt.net>
<344A03...@bohm.anu.edu.au> <344A39ED...@tol.honeth.aol.com>
<344A50...@erols.com> <62fdot$su5$0...@dosa.alt.net>
<woHA_zW00iWS03=i...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>In the UK there's certainly an audio-book version of DoF (since I've
>got a copy). However, when I asked, I was told that it was the only
>one to be published as an audio book (which makes absolutely no sense
>to me).
>
>I don't know how close my recording is to Eddings' intentions, but it's
>quite a long way from my own pronunciations! :-)
>
>--
>Celsimon (High Priest of Happy Bunnies)
>I have some happy bunnies protecting me from spam e-mails.
>To send mail, please ask them nicely to go away.
I also have a copy of this particular audio book (which is great) and was as
surprised as you ar to find that it was the only one of the three to be
recorded.
I found the pronunciations to be close to by own interpertations.
Barry
Cyberkalt
In article <3456b111...@nntp.netcruiser>, sara...@matherion.com
(Sarabian) writes:
>>Cherek Bear-Shoulders was 23 when Dras was born; about 25 for Algar;
>>and 27 when Riva was born. Belgarath went to the celebration the
>>summer Riva was 18, and it was that winter that they came to meet him
>>to retrieve the orb. That puts Cherek at 45 at the time. Cherek went
>>home to find his wife had died, remarried, and raised another family.
>>Riva Iron-Grip was nearing 60 when Beldaran died, and he followed her
>>some 6 or 7 years later. Around the time of Beldaran's death, mention
>>was still being made of Dras and Algar, who would have been 64 and 62
>>respectively at that time. I couldn't find any further references to
>>ages, and after Riva's death, Belgarath mentions how he and Pol rarely
>>talk of those who were so much a part of their lives and are now gone.
>
You forgot someone. I think Belgarath's around 7000 years old.
Thought I'd add it just for the sake of completeness. :)
Kalten~!!!
mmrr
Varana wrote:
>
> Twin Ion Engine wrote:
>
> > That is, as far as women Eddings' books is concerned, they have to be
> > beautiful first, then young, then comes their various good points
> > (skills,
> > talents etc..). Otherwise, they are usually relegated to supporting or
> >
> > villianious roles.
>
> Eddings? I can't really think of any.
Come to think of it, how many ugly women are there?
You *could* consider the "seer" at... erm... you know, the Cherek
one... when Barak was first coming to terms with his
bear-transformations -- what *was* her name? It was probably in, oh, PoP
actually. The blind lady whose eyes Polgara fixed. *She* was kinda
creepy and old and femail, although not exactly a "villain" (a harmless
ol' goose is more like it), but she really disturbed Barak, didn't she?
M? Mart-something? Ack; I can't remember.
-mmrr
Ce'Nedra
In article <3450BD...@MIT.EDU>, mmrr <jsm...@MIT.EDU> inscribed:
> You *could* consider the "seer" at... erm... you know, the Cherek
>one... when Barak was first coming to terms with his
>bear-transformations -- what *was* her name? It was probably in, oh, PoP
>actually. The blind lady whose eyes Polgara fixed. *She* was kinda
>creepy and old and femail, although not exactly a "villain" (a harmless
>ol' goose is more like it), but she really disturbed Barak, didn't she?
>M? Mart-something? Ack; I can't remember.
Martje?
--
Ce'Nedra - Queen of the World
"I don't want to be reasonable. I want to kill Zandramas."
(No spamblockers in my header. Action will be gleefully taken against)
(anyone sending spam to me, or to any of my subscribed newsgroups.)
Velvet
mmrr wrote:
> You *could* consider the "seer" at... erm... you know, the Cherek
> one... when Barak was first coming to terms with his
> bear-transformations -- what *was* her name? It was probably in, oh,
> PoP actually. The blind lady whose eyes Polgara fixed. *She* was kinda
> creepy and old and femail, although not exactly a "villain" (a
> harmless ol' goose is more like it), but she really disturbed Barak,
> didn't she?
> M? Mart-something? Ack; I can't remember.
>
> -mmrr
Martje? Too lazy to go look up the books, but I think that's right...
Isn't it strange how a lot of these names get mixed up? I was reading a
book the other day that had lots of stuff about a place called "Atuan",
and I kept expecting some sort of description of the bronze-skinned
superwarriors... I find that sometimes when I read books I forget
almost all the names of the characters, and get them all mixed up. This
is especially true with fantasy books, where the names tend to be fairly
strange, ie. I've never heard any of them. But in real life I'm really
good with names, so I don't know why I can't remember them in books!
:-) Velvet
Helen Topping
In message <3456b111...@nntp.netcruiser>
sara...@matherion.com (Sarabian) wrote:
> Cherek died the year before making him 93 or 94 when he died,
> which is quite old really for a king-type person.
Does your majesty not want to reign for that long?
:+)
--
Zubrette
... Open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally.
Sarabian
A post rose in the newsgroup alt.fan.eddings. The post was not The
Post from Helen Topping <zubr...@sagitta.demon.co.uk>, but it was a
post from Helen Topping <zubr...@sagitta.demon.co.uk>:
>In message <3456b111...@nntp.netcruiser>
> sara...@matherion.com (Sarabian) wrote:
>
>> Cherek died the year before making him 93 or 94 when he died,
>> which is quite old really for a king-type person.
>
>Does your majesty not want to reign for that long?
>:+)
I'll prolly abdicate and be The Emperor Grandad at that age :)
Can't get stuck in the one job for the rest of my life. Nowadays,
it's 2 years as Emperor of Tamul, then off to do something else.
Sarabian(Emperor Penguin)
--
You can approach the throne and speak with His Majesty by changing
matherion.com to netcomuk.co.uk.
The Unofficially Unoffical AFE Web Page
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~pfreemn/afecodex.html
Last updated 26th October. AFE members - 31
Lara SoaringEagle
Twin Ion Engine wrote:
> You know what would be nice? Produce a CD-ROM edition containing the correct
> pronunciation of all the make-believe names. I don't believe this qualifies as
> any money-making commercial practice which Eddings himself abhored.
>
> can download the sound files for various pronunciation.
It would be nice to see the Rivin Codex in CD Rom form.
~Lara SoaringEagle
Killane
> Twin Ion Engine wrote:
> > You know what would be nice? Produce a CD-ROM edition containing the correct
> > pronunciation of all the make-believe names. I don't believe this qualifies as
> > any money-making commercial practice which Eddings himself abhored.
> >
> > Either this or else the publisher of the book should make a web page where we
> > can download the sound files for various pronunciation.
>
uh, how bout just an appendix including pronounciation guide with pronoun list.
BTW, a little while ago there was a discussion about creating one for the Eddings'
work. I think that some people - including myself- incorrctly assumed that there
wasn't anything of the sort. Well, there is. Aph has a nearly complete list for the
El/Tam - it's really very good.
About pronounciation, I tend to use the soft vowel / Romance language type. Just
seems to work better...
Zubrette
Lara SoaringEagle entertained us with:
> Twin Ion Engine wrote:
> > You know what would be nice? Produce a CD-ROM edition containing the correct
> > pronunciation of all the make-believe names.
>
> It would be nice to see the Rivin Codex in CD Rom form.
And would help tremendously when doing Simon's quiz!
--
Zubrette
... "There are no women like me. I am unique. That makes me rather dangerous" - Servalan
Simon Nickerson
A frolicsome rabbit kept tugging at my arm. Intrigued, I investigated and
discovered that Twin Ion Engine had been posting to a.f.e:
> You know what would be nice? Produce a CD-ROM edition containing the correct
> any money-making commercial practice which Eddings himself abhored.
I think I'm glad there isn't a 'definitive' guide to pronunciation. When I'm
reading a book, I usually come up with a pronunciation that I like, and I'm
loath to change it.
For instance, I've always pronounced "Aphrael" as AFF-rayl, whereas most people
I've spoken to pronounce it as aff-ray-ELL (similar to "Raphael"). It still
jars when I hear it pronounced like that, though I concede that that's probably
the pronunciation DE intended.
There are some that I haven't decided about, though. Notably Alean, Ctuchik,
Ce'Nedra (I'm undecided whether the 'c' is an 's' or a 'ch' sound), Talen
(TAR-len/talon/TAY-len) and Mirtai (MEER-tai/MEER-tay/MUR-tai/MUR-tay). In
general though, it's fairly easy to see the pronounciation (unlike certain
other fantasy authors).
Jennifer Landry
>There are some that I haven't decided about, though. Notably Alean, Ctuchik,
>Ce'Nedra (I'm undecided whether the 'c' is an 's' or a 'ch' sound), Talen
>(TAR-len/talon/TAY-len) and Mirtai (MEER-tai/MEER-tay/MUR-tai/MUR-tay). In
>general though, it's fairly easy to see the pronounciation (unlike certain
>other fantasy authors).
As to the pronunciation of Ce'Nedra....From GotW, page 211
(paperback):' "Ce'Nedra" he said. (He being Garion)
"What?"
"I've been meaning to ask you something. All the Dryads have names
that begin with an X, don't they? Xera, Xantha - like that."
"It's our custom," she replied, continuing to work on her shoelaces.
"Why doesn't yours then? Begin with an X, I mean?"
"It does." She pulled off one of her shoes. "Tolnedrans just
pronounce it a little differently, thats all. So they spell it that
way. Dryads don't read or write very much, so they dont worry too
much about spelling."
"X'Nedra?"
"That's fairly close. Make the X a little softer though." '
Given this quote, I would suspect that the name is pronounced more
with an "s" sound, sort of halfway between an 's' and a 'z'
Silar, Queen of Cherek (working on an actual .sig file :-)
Walker
Walker looks up from his tome. In article
<34B59424...@lynx.neu.edu>, akes...@lynx.neu.edu says...
<snip>
> > > Either this or else the publisher of the book should make a web page where we
> > > can download the sound files for various pronunciation.
> About pronounciation, I tend to use the soft vowel / Romance language type. Just
> seems to work better...
>
>
words were there that were hard/ambiguous to pronounce?
--
[The candle flickers as Walker once again resumes his poring over
the Histories] Walker -==(UDIC)==-
d+++ e-- N+ T?;) Om++ U6!7'!S'!8 u+++ uC++ uF++ uG++++/--- uLB+ uA- nC++
nH+ nP nPT nS+++ nT+
Ce'Nedra
In article <rCcE$OAfnn...@sigma.demon.co.uk>, Simon Nickerson
<Si...@sigma.demon.co.happy.bunnies.uk> inscribed:
>For instance, I've always pronounced "Aphrael" as AFF-rayl, whereas most people
>I've spoken to pronounce it as aff-ray-ELL (similar to "Raphael"). It still
>jars when I hear it pronounced like that, though I concede that that's probably
>the pronunciation DE intended.
and not jarring. :)
What about "Danae"? Dan-eye, or Dan-ay ?
>There are some that I haven't decided about, though. Notably Alean, Ctuchik,
>Ce'Nedra (I'm undecided whether the 'c' is an 's' or a 'ch' sound),
Well, remember the 'Ce' is really an 'X', and think how eg 'Xena' is
pronounced. (and Xanth, and Xylophone etc etc)
Closer to an 's' than a 'ch' but not *exactly* an 's', more like a 'z'
noise. :)
(does anyone apart from me follow that?) ;)
--
Ce'Nedra - Queen of the World
"He turned his head and saw his little queen,
dagger in hand, and eyes ablaze with hatred"
Killane
Oh, these are easy! ;)
Simon Nickerson wrote:
> There are some that I haven't decided about, though. Notably
> Alean,
--ah - lee -- AHN
> Ctuchik,
--k-TOO-chik
> Ce'Nedra
--(x)S - NE-dra
> Talen
>
TAL-en
> and Mirtai
Mur-TAI
> In
> general though, it's fairly easy to see the pronounciation (unlike certain
> other fantasy authors).
>
One that I have a *lot* of trouble with is Platime.
Is it (PLAY -time) which sounds VERY funny, or (pla - teem), or something else?
---Killane
Killane
Ce'Nedra wrote:
> pronounce it as aff-ray-ELL (similar to "Raphael"). It still
>
> I've always pronounced it the second way, to me it sounds more musical,
> and not jarring. :)
>
YES!! that's exactly it! more musical is the way to describe it.that's why, as I've
already said, I use the soft vowels most of the time.
> What about "Danae"? Dan-eye, or Dan-ay ?
>
--da -AY
Andrew Shore
On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Simon Nickerson wrote:
> There are some that I haven't decided about, though. Notably Alean, Ctuchik,
> Ce'Nedra (I'm undecided whether the 'c' is an 's' or a 'ch' sound),
A 'X' sound, actually... ;)
Talen
> (TAR-len/talon/TAY-len)
I pronounce it as Talon, but my len is as hen (Just to add more
choice...)
and Mirtai (MEER-tai/MEER-tay/
MUR-tai
Anyone got a decent rationale for their choices? (i.e. actually thought
about it, which I rarely do) There was a thread relating RL nations to the
Bel/Mal ones...
/MUR-tay). In
> general though, it's fairly easy to see the pronounciation (unlike certain
> other fantasy authors).
Yeah... though you may be pronouncing it differently and not realising
it. Eddings names are often 'obvious', but that's only because I pronounce
a lot of similar words the same way - and since I'm not American, I might
be completely off track...
> --
> Celsimon (High Priest of Happy Bunnies)
Jaycey... {:->
Walker
Walker looks up from his tome. In article
> Oh, these are easy! ;)
>
>
> > There are some that I haven't decided about, though. Notably
>
> > Alean,
>
> > Ctuchik,
>
> --k-TOO-chik
> > Ce'Nedra
>
> --(x)S - NE-dra
Yes, not Ned-ra, as I've heard some pronounce it.
> > Talen
> TAL-en
as in Talon.
> > and Mirtai
>
> Mur-TAI
Yup.
> One that I have a *lot* of trouble with is Platime.
> Is it (PLAY -time) which sounds VERY funny, or (pla - teem), or something else?
>
> ---Killane
>
>
PLA-time? I thought it was Playtime at first as well but it just sounded
so stoopid. I still catch myself reading it as that. Is the "h" in Ehlana
strong? Is it EH-laa-na or E-LAA-na?
Walker
Walker looks up from his tome. In article <61t0oDA0o+t0Iw9F@brad-
camb.demon.co.uk>, Ce'Ne...@brad-camb.demon.co.uk says...
> In article <rCcE$OAfnn...@sigma.demon.co.uk>, Simon Nickerson
> <Si...@sigma.demon.co.happy.bunnies.uk> inscribed:
> >For instance, I've always pronounced "Aphrael" as AFF-rayl, whereas most people
> >I've spoken to pronounce it as aff-ray-ELL (similar to "Raphael"). It still
> >jars when I hear it pronounced like that, though I concede that that's probably
> >the pronunciation DE intended.
> and not jarring. :)
>
There was a greek goddess/immortal by the same name so I'm pretty sure
that's right. The Styrics seem pretty Mediterranean to me with respects
to architecture, clothing, politics, theology etc.
> >There are some that I haven't decided about, though. Notably Alean, Ctuchik,
> >Ce'Nedra (I'm undecided whether the 'c' is an 's' or a 'ch' sound),
> Well, remember the 'Ce' is really an 'X', and think how eg 'Xena' is
> pronounced. (and Xanth, and Xylophone etc etc)
> Closer to an 's' than a 'ch' but not *exactly* an 's', more like a 'z'
> noise. :)
Yup, I follow, but kind of at an angle. How about Se'Nedra but with a
short "S". Like "Tse'Nedra" as in "Mao Tse" whatever
"Mirtai" -Meer-tye
"Ctuchik" - Too-chik , with the "t" sound like the beginning of "the"
"Cthol" -Kthol
"Zedar" - Zed-AR
BTW, what was the original "Couples like Silk and Velvet" about?
Simon Nickerson
A frolicsome rabbit kept tugging at my arm. Intrigued, I investigated
posting to a.f.e:
>>For instance, I've always pronounced "Aphrael" as AFF-rayl, whereas most people
>>I've spoken to pronounce it as aff-ray-ELL (similar to "Raphael"). It still
>>jars when I hear it pronounced like that, though I concede that that's probably
>>the pronunciation DE intended.
>I've always pronounced it the second way, to me it sounds more musical,
>and not jarring. :)
Granted, but when you're used to a pronunciation, it's hard to change
(well, it is for me anyway).
>What about "Danae"? Dan-eye, or Dan-ay ?
Dan-ay IMO, because it's more musical and less jarring. ;-) I think the
real reason I pronounce it Dan-ay , though, is that I've done some
singing in Latin, and AFAIK it's conventional that 'ae' = 'ay' (at least
when singing). Digging up a Roman and asking for the true pronunciation
isn't really practical. :-)
--
Celsimon (High Priest of Happy Bunnies)
Beldaran
Walker wrote:
>
> Walker looks up from his tome. In article
> > Oh, these are easy! ;)
> >
> > Simon Nickerson wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Alean,
> >
> Agree.
> > > Ctuchik,
> >
> > --k-TOO-chik
>
> > > Ce'Nedra
> >
> > --(x)S - NE-dra
> Yes, not Ned-ra, as I've heard some pronounce it.
> > > Talen
> > TAL-en
> as in Talon.
> > > and Mirtai
> >
> > Mur-TAI
> Yup.
> > One that I have a *lot* of trouble with is Platime.
> > Is it (PLAY -time) which sounds VERY funny, or (pla - teem), or something else?
> >
> > ---Killane
> >
> >
> PLA-time? I thought it was Playtime at first as well but it just sounded
> so stoopid. I still catch myself reading it as that. Is the "h" in Ehlana
> strong? Is it EH-laa-na or E-LAA-na?
>
Ce'Nedra: seh-NED-rah
Talen: like Talon
Ctuchik: TOO-chick (C is silent)
Mirtai: MEER-tie
Platime: plah-TEEM
The ones I've flip-flopped on the most recently are Poledra (I still say
"pole-EE-drah", although I tried to say "pole-ED-rah" for a while), and
Vo Wacune (took me years to decide on this one--I finally decided that
"voe-WAY-kyoon" sounds best IMO).
Beldaran
To reply via e-mail, change "beldaran" to "kenyon1" and say goodbye to
the Citadel and Riva.
Killane
Walker wrote:
> PLA-time? I thought it was Playtime at first as well but it just sounded
> so stoopid. I still catch myself reading it as that. Is the "h" in Ehlana
> strong? Is it EH-laa-na or E-LAA-na?
>
> --
my guess is just E-LAH-NA straight out without any real accentuation. The "E" is very
soft, thought, because of the "H". I also thought of Pla - time, but forgot to put it
down, seems that its the best one too.
BTW, I like your style ;)
Killane
Here goes....
Ctuchik --- kTU-chik
Poledra --- pole-EhD-ra
Wacune -- Wak-OON
but the strange thing is:
Wacite -- WA-site
Murgos - Mer - goes
cthol - k-THOL
Nyissa - I'm stuck here, either NIh - sah , or nie - IH - sah
Sthiss Tor - sssthisss- tore
hmmm, can't think of anything else right now.
I'll get back later.
----Killane
Killane
Walker wrote:
> >
> Lycheas - Lye-chee-as, Lye-kee-as?
> Chyrellos - Chi-rillose, Chye- rellos?
> --
Well - obviously Lye - kee - as
and Chye - rellos !
BTW, what was "couples like Silk and Velvet"?