Immortality (Ce'Nedra)
Robert B Harvey
long as their trees. But does Ce'Nedra have a tree? She was rasied as
a Tolnedran instead of a dryad. And it isn't as though she was the
first dryad to live as a human ... it had been going on for five
hundred years (roughly)
Of course, Ce'Nedra seemed awefully fond of the tree in the Vale
and that is a tree that is assumed to last forever ... Maybe she
can 'adopt' that as her tree.
Robert Harvey
s913...@valiant.vut.edu.au
Glen Harris
One of these acorns is from Ce'Nedra's own tree, so presumably it's
in the Wood.
Joel Berger
>In the first series (I think) it was stated that Dryads live only as
>long as their trees. But does Ce'Nedra have a tree? She was rasied as
>a Tolnedran instead of a dryad. And it isn't as though she was the
>first dryad to live as a human ... it had been going on for five
>hundred years (roughly)
tell, she's got a tree; she had no choice in the matter. She had a tree the
moment she was born (not that Ran Borune or Ce'Vanne chose that, either).
--
Joel Berger (jbe...@nyx.cs.du.edu) | "Why is the sky chartreuse?"
Sophomore, Northglenn High School | "Do as I do, not as I say."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Linda G. Brashear
Okay, the discussion about dryads and trees brings up another point.
Ce'Nedra's daughter, Beldaran, was born in winter. Now, knowing that
Beldaran must be a dryad (there's a line to that effect when Eddings mentions
the baby's red hair), does this mean that Beldaran's tree sprouted at the
same time? In the middle of winter? Very biologically unlikely, unless
there's some sort of force at work in the Wood of the Dryads that can
overrule the laws of nature. Or is there some other means of assigning
a dryad a tree so that it doesn't necessarily happen when the dryad is
born, but earlier or later or whatever? Just a thought...
Linda
--
"The Living Dead don't *need* to solve word problems"--Calvin
"The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you"--I Corinthians 16:23
Josh Geurink
>Okay, the discussion about dryads and trees brings up another point.
>Ce'Nedra's daughter, Beldaran, was born in winter. Now, knowing that
^^^^^^^^
>Beldaran must be a dryad (there's a line to that effect when Eddings mentions
>the baby's red hair), does this mean that Beldaran's tree sprouted at the
>same time? In the middle of winter? Very biologically unlikely, unless
>there's some sort of force at work in the Wood of the Dryads that can
>overrule the laws of nature. Or is there some other means of assigning
>a dryad a tree so that it doesn't necessarily happen when the dryad is
>born, but earlier or later or whatever? Just a thought...
Bzzzt! Ce'Nedra gave birth to exactly ONE child -- Geran. Beldaran
was BELGARATH's daughter that married Riva Iron-Grip (what a hoke name!)
and officially started the Rivan line.
Most likely, the Dryads have some sort of magical thingie to allow
their trees to sprout at any given time, right along with the birth
of another dryad. The dryad is tied to her tree -- if the tree dies,
she dies. Any poor dryad child that gets "assigned" someone else's
old tree would be getting seroiusly shafted in the longevity department.
Joshua Henry Geurink, CVE | "...Lockjaw doesn't like children who tell lies.
Certified Vampire Expert | Late at night he stalks the houses of the fibbers
Occultism Kid of the LNH | and the falsefiers, and before they can cry out
geu...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | from their beds, he nails their jaws open with a
"Oh, God, not again!" | rusty nail, using his HEAD as a hammer..."
mcol...@hmcvax.claremont.edu
Kell, just a little while before Polgara had her twins. And Garion named her
Beldaran after Pol's sister.
"The baby liiked back at him, her green-eyed gaze unwavering.
It was a familiar gaze. "Good ming, Beldaran," Garion said
softly. He had made that decision quite some time ago. There
would be other daughters, and they would be named after a fair
number of female relatives on both sides of the familybut
it somehow seemed important that his first daughter should
be named for Aunt Pol's blond twin sister, a woman who, though
Garion had seen only her image and then only once, was still
somehow central to all their lives."
Seeress of Kell
Ballantine Books
Page 390 (Hardcover)
-Michelle
COLIN JAMES BUNNELL
> In article <1p08u4$a...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> lg...@po.CWRU.Edu (Linda G. Brashear) writes:
>
> >Okay, the discussion about dryads and trees brings up another point.
> >Ce'Nedra's daughter, Beldaran, was born in winter. Now, knowing that
> ^^^^^^^^
> >Beldaran must be a dryad (there's a line to that effect when Eddings mentions
> >the baby's red hair), does this mean that Beldaran's tree sprouted at the
> >same time? In the middle of winter? Very biologically unlikely, unless
> >there's some sort of force at work in the Wood of the Dryads that can
> >overrule the laws of nature. Or is there some other means of assigning
> >a dryad a tree so that it doesn't necessarily happen when the dryad is
> >born, but earlier or later or whatever? Just a thought...
>
> Bzzzt! Ce'Nedra gave birth to exactly ONE child -- Geran. Beldaran
> was BELGARATH's daughter that married Riva Iron-Grip (what a hoke name!)
> and officially started the Rivan line.
You ought not be so harsh when you correct people. Because you're wrong.
Reread the end of Seeress of Kell (Epilogue)-Ce'Nedra gives birth to a
baby girl named Beldaran (after the aforementioned daughter of Belgarath).
I forgot about it too, but next time, look it up before you expose yourself
as flamebait (I expect the flamethrowers to start up very shortly...:) )
-Colin-
Josh Geurink
>Ce'Nedra did in fact give birth to a daughter at the very end of Seeress of
>Kell, just a little while before Polgara had her twins. And Garion named her
>Beldaran after Pol's sister.
*Smack* You're right. I forgot. 'been so excited since the
final Shanarra book came out that my mind's been elsewhere. :)
Sorry, again.
Josh Geurink
>You ought not be so harsh when you correct people. Because you're wrong.
>Reread the end of Seeress of Kell (Epilogue)-Ce'Nedra gives birth to a
>baby girl named Beldaran (after the aforementioned daughter of Belgarath).
>I forgot about it too, but next time, look it up before you expose yourself
>as flamebait (I expect the flamethrowers to start up very shortly...:) )
(shot of Josh diving for cover behind a liquid nitrogen truck)
I'm sorry! I forgot! Forgive me! :)
(Ack, wouldn't you know it. I'm snide ONCE on this group, and
it turns out I'm wrong. I guess I deserve anything I get. *sigh*)
Linda G. Brashear
That's all right Josh. I forgive you (besides, my flamethrower's in the
shop :-)).
But, does anyone else other than Josh have a theory on the dryad/tree
born in winter thing? He's the only one who posted a possibility so
far. And if there is a theory, is there anything in the books to
back it up? Thanks.
Charlie Collins
In article 2375 Linda Brashear writes:
:But, does anyone else other than Josh have a theory on the dryad/tree
:born in winter thing? He's the only one who posted a possibility so
:far. And if there is a theory, is there anything in the books to
:back it up? Thanks.
Do we know where the dryad trees sprout? It seems to me that Ce'Nedra's
tree is located in the Wood of the Dryads, even though it seems unlikely that
she would have been born there. Near there, in Tolnedra, but not actually in
the Wood itself. In that case Beldaran's tree might have sprouted in the Wood
as well. In that case a winter birth might be possible, since the Wood of the
Dryads is located very near the Nyissan border, and Nyissa seems to be pretty
warm all year round.
Also, does anyone know when the group travelled through the Wood on their
way south? I feel like they were travelling in winter and that the `season'
that held sway in the wood was pretty springlike anyway. It may be that I am
confusing the Wood of the Dryads with Lothlorien from Lord of the Rings, though.
Charlie
Linda G. Brashear
Which group were you referring to, Charlie? The "Belgariad" group or
the "Malloreon" group? If it's the former, it was spring (remember the
snow in Arendia at the start of "Queen of Sorcerey" and that it was
getting warmer througout the story). If it was the Malloreon group,
it was winter ("It NEVER snows in Tol Honeth") and Ce'Nedra told Eriond
that the trees were sad because winter was coming. I think that, even if
you don't get snow in the Wood, you still get seasons. Since the trees
are going through this knowledge of a winter period, it seems to me that
they would be dormant (for want of a better word) for a while, and no new
trees would be coming until spring, thus depressing them.
Eccles
>In article <1p08u4$a...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> lg...@po.CWRU.Edu (Linda G. Brashear) writes:
>>Okay, the discussion about dryads and trees brings up another point.
>>Ce'Nedra's daughter, Beldaran, was born in winter. Now, knowing that
> ^^^^^^^^
>>Beldaran must be a dryad (there's a line to that effect when Eddings mentions
>>the baby's red hair), does this mean that Beldaran's tree sprouted at the
>>same time? In the middle of winter? Very biologically unlikely, unless
>>there's some sort of force at work in the Wood of the Dryads that can
>>overrule the laws of nature. Or is there some other means of assigning
>>a dryad a tree so that it doesn't necessarily happen when the dryad is
>>born, but earlier or later or whatever? Just a thought...
>Bzzzt! Ce'Nedra gave birth to exactly ONE child -- Geran. Beldaran
>was BELGARATH's daughter that married Riva Iron-Grip (what a hoke name!)
>and officially started the Rivan line.
Half-bzzzt. She had a daughter at the end of Seeress, yes/no?
Eccles
Ps: Its been ages since I re-read the Mallorean... I might have to
do so again...
Eccles
>That's all right Josh. I forgive you (besides, my flamethrower's in the
>shop :-)).
>But, does anyone else other than Josh have a theory on the dryad/tree
>born in winter thing? He's the only one who posted a possibility so
>far. And if there is a theory, is there anything in the books to
>back it up? Thanks.
she was born when? But when was she concieved? *(grin*
I'd say normal dryads can only get pregnant in spring, thus
the trees can sprout any time they want.... after all, most
creatures come 'on heat' limited numbers of times a year,
why not the dryads?
>"The Living Dead don't *need* to solve word problems"--Calvin
Yes we do. You know what Sunday afternoons are like? Imagine that
multiplied by infinity and you know how _boring_ being a vampire
can be... when you're not having your arm shot off, being chased
by Garou, Mages or Witchhunters, having other vampires trying to
diablerise you, having the Prince of your city really shitted off
with you... that sort of thing :)
Eccles, also known as Sean O'Connell in another life :)
Leslie J. Parsons
In a previous article, lg...@po.CWRU.Edu (Linda G. Brashear) says:
>
>That's all right Josh. I forgive you (besides, my flamethrower's in the
>shop :-)).
>
>But, does anyone else other than Josh have a theory on the dryad/tree
>born in winter thing? He's the only one who posted a possibility so
>far. And if there is a theory, is there anything in the books to
>back it up? Thanks.
Well, is it possible (I'm not up on my biology) that Beldaran's tree could
have been planted the day she was concieved (which would have been the
previous winter's end/early spring)? Would it have survived the next winter?
--
"Some folks dream all the wonders they'll do/ before their time on this
planet is through./ Some folks don't have anything planned./ They hide
their hopes and their heads in the sand." "Joseph and the Amazing
technicolor Dreamcoat"/L. Parsons, cn460/416-427-6810
Colin Henein
In a previous article, int...@mdw062.cc.monash.edu.au (Eccles) says:
>
>I'd say normal dryads can only get pregnant in spring, thus
>the trees can sprout any time they want.... after all, most
>creatures come 'on heat' limited numbers of times a year,
>why not the dryads?
>
Well, there was all of that business with Xera and the loam & acorns for
Geran's conception. Maybe that was an indication of the correct time for
trees to grow. (Sorry, I don't have the books handy for quotes.) Maybe
Ce'Nedra just learned about the right time of year for these things.
Also, there's the business of Prophesy-delayed-conception. Remember
Cyradis said to Zith something like "That which hath been delayed may now
come to pass". And also that Polgara and Ce'Nedra both discover their
pregnancy at the same time the day AFTER the <event>. Maybe there are some
higher rules in effect here that circumvent the norm. More than one of us
may be right in this case.
Colin
--
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| Colin Henein Internet: ac...@Freenet.carleton.ca |
| "You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all different" |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Doug Banks
re trees in winter
Maybe the wood of the Dryads is far South enough that it doesn't get
wintery?? I seem to remember the wood being close to Nyissa, which I
can't imagine ever getting too cold.
Robert B Harvey
Okay then. If all the borune 'dryads' had trees then why did Ce'vanne
(spelling correct?) die before Ran Bourune? Hmm? I assumed that if a
Dryad was born in human society then she would live a shortened (or
human) lifetime.
Well, I thought it was a neat way to account for it and then Ce'Nedra
can adopt the Vale tree and live happily ever and ever and ever (ad
infinutum!)
Robert Harvey
s913...@valiant.vut.edu.au
Joel Berger
>Okay then. If all the borune 'dryads' had trees then why did Ce'vanne
>(spelling correct?) die before Ran Bourune? Hmm? I assumed that if a
>Dryad was born in human society then she would live a shortened (or
>human) lifetime.
>Well, I thought it was a neat way to account for it and then Ce'Nedra
>can adopt the Vale tree and live happily ever and ever and ever (ad
>infinutum!)
Perhaps something happened to Ce'Vanne's tree (disease?). Perhaps if something
*did* happen to Ce'Vanne's tree, it was part of the Prophecy that it must
happen (to push Ce'Nedra to what she must do), or perhaps it was incidental.
Adopting trees: That might work, as well. And if the tree in the Vale is
indeed Ce'Nedra's tree, then yes, wouldn't she be immortal (as far as anyone
could tell, at least)?
--
Joel Berger (jbe...@nyx.cs.du.edu) | "Why is the sky chartreuse?"
Sophomore, Northglenn High School | "Do as I do, not as I say."
The views expressed here are my own and do not represent those of DU.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carrie Janisse
Perhaps Ce'Vanne was already older when she married Ran Borune.
Dryads are supposed to be different from humans so perhaps they
also age differently, and can bear children later in life. There
is really no mention of how old Ce'Vanne is.
Or maybe you're right, maybe something _did_ happen to her tree.
cj
--
Carrie Janisse, ab...@freenet.carleton.ca Ottawa, Ontario
"It takes three days to get there by train. Two days! Two days
to get there by boat. It takes forever if you go by inertia.
No time, if you don't believe in time."
M N Nelson
Before Belgarion and Ce'Nedra marry (I think it's before Belgarion
goes off to fight Torak) one of the Dryads vists them and plants a
special tree. I'd always assumed that this was Ce'Nedra's tree.
Mark
Josh Geurink
not a single dryad would ever have died a natural death. Unless Eddings'
Dryads have a greater sense of the cycles of life and death that do
his sorcerers, every one would seek out a younger tree when their tree
aged and began to die.
Perhaps under special circumstances, though, it _could_ happen. Sorcery
could trigger such a change, and a god certainly would possess the power.
I just cannot believe the practice to be commonplace, though.
Robert B Harvey
their trees. The queen says it about her old tree. That would explain
why there are no dryads other than in the wood and why Ce'Nedra and
all her relations in the Borune family are basically human. They don't
have trees. The only time Ce'Nedra planted a tree was before Geran was
born and I assume this was because Dryads cannot have male children.
Robert Harvey
s913...@valiant.vut.edu.au
Carrie Janisse
The tree Ce'Nedra and her cousin Xera planted was a symbol of
marriage in Castle of Wizardry. I believe in Guardians they
merely replanted the tree with loam from the Woods of the
Dryads.
C. Titus Brown
>In article <s9131783.733098847@valiant> s913...@valiant.vut.EDU.AU (Robert B Harvey) writes:
>>In the first series (I think) it was stated that Dryads live only as
>>long as their trees. But does Ce'Nedra have a tree? She was rasied as
>>a Tolnedran instead of a dryad. And it isn't as though she was the
>>first dryad to live as a human ... it had been going on for five
>>hundred years (roughly)
>Her upbringing has nothing to do with it; she's still a Dryad. From what I can
>tell, she's got a tree; she had no choice in the matter. She had a tree the
>moment she was born (not that Ran Borune or Ce'Vanne chose that, either).
Ce'Nedra does not necessarily have a tree; remember, she is half-human...
If she _does_ have a tree, I expect that it would be the tree that
is twined together with Garion's (a wedding gift from the queen of the
Dryads). That doesn't make much sense, though :-) - I'd assume trees
were born at the same time as the dryads.
--Titus
--
"Never put off until tomorrow, that which can be done the day after tomorrow"
-- C. Titus Brown, anonymous student, br...@reed.edu
The views expressed herein may or may not be the views expressed by Reed
MRM...@psuvm.psu.edu
Ce'Nedra, while being raised a Tolnedran, is a full dryad, as they 'breed true
on the female side'. She DOES have a tree of her own, which is in the Wood of
the Dryads, which can be evidenced in _Castle_, where Xantha sends Ce'Nedra
acorns from both of thier trees (Xantha's and Ce'Nedra's).
Garion does not have a tree- I don't know where this came from.
YES, Ce'Vanne died, but odds are this was due to illness, either to herself or
to her tree. Details are not given. But Dryads can die out of turn just like
people can. Creative liscence for Mr. Eddings.
SINCE an acorn came from Ce'Nedra's tree, we can assume it is an oak tree. Oak
trees live for hundreds, even a thousand years. Barring accident, Ce'Nedra can
live as long.
The 'adopt a tree' thing sounds pretty silly- it would be like getting yourself
a new soul when yours was worn out. This is just a pipe-dream from some net
fan who didn't want Ce'Nedra to be mortal. Sorry.
I hope this ends this pondering and questioning, makes everything clear. As
always, questions, comments, flames and more are welcome.
Marsh
Carrie Janisse
Ce'Nedra _does_ have a tree, and I believe in Castle of Wizardry
it says that the acorns that Ce'Nedra and Xera plant are gifts
from Ce'Nedra's and Xantha's tree. That would mean Ce'Nedra
had a tree of her own in the Wood of the Dryads
Colin Henein
In a previous article, MRM...@psuvm.psu.edu (Marsh) says:
>OK, LAST TIME!
>
>Ce'Nedra, while being raised a Tolnedran, is a full dryad, as they 'breed true
>on the female side'. She DOES have a tree of her own, which is in the Wood of
>the Dryads, which can be evidenced in _Castle_, where Xantha sends Ce'Nedra
>acorns from both of thier trees (Xantha's and Ce'Nedra's).
I think that these are the kinds of answers that should be in a FAQ for
this newsgroup. If you people are willing to suggest what should be
included, I would be willing to write/edit and maintain this file. Let me
know...
Colin
--
Colin Henein. | "No matter how big or soft or warm
(Freenet Moron) | your bed is you still have to
Internet: ac...@Freenet.carleton.ca | get out of it" -- Grace Slick
Rapunzel
Just to add something to the discussion that should enlighten a
few things: In _Guardians_ when Xera arrives with the acorns I seem to
recall Ce'Nedra indignantly telling Garion that "one acorn was from my
very own tree and the other is a gift from queen Xantha's tree."
That seems to state right there that Ce'Nedra had a tree. So
take that and run with it, and take it wherever you think it leads. I
just wanted to add that little piece of trivia.
Heather
Melchar
Hmm, this may explain some of Ce'nedra's wooden dialogue....
)youch! ouch! OK -- it was just a joke!!)
Krista Rogers
>shop :-)).
>
>But, does anyone else other than Josh have a theory on the dryad/tree
>born in winter thing?
forest couldn't have winter (or spring or fall for that matter) because
the dryads would "die" or at least be dormant like their trees. So if this
conclusion is correct, it really wouldn't matter what month Beldaran was
born in.
Krista-----:)
M. Brandon Cheek
Actually, no. I believe it's in the second book of the Mallorean,
where the group is heading south toward Nyissa, that they pass through the
Wood of the Dryads. A strange mood overcame Ce'nedra and Garion felt it
was the trees. He asked her why the were sad and she responded:
"Because it's winter...they mourn the falling of their leaves and
regret the fact that the birds have all flown south."
This and the fact that they actually went to see X'antha shows
that the Dryads don't become dormant during winter. I hope this clears up
that point.
--Brandon
-------------------------------+ If we shadows have offended,
M. Brandon Cheek | Think but this, and all is mended,
st92...@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu | That you have but slumber'd here,
-------------------------------+ While these visions did appear.
Dan Van Der Werken
most if not all of them. Dryads generally means...ahh....some kind of
female creature that lives/is "connected to" trees (that's lives *in*).
You may find a hundred different dryad descriptions by as many authors.
I rather expect that Mr. Eddings never thought we'd be debating the fine
points of his dryads on the net when he created them.
---Dan---
--
Daniel F. Van Der Werken, Jr. | *Standard disclaimer applies!!! *
Microsoft Corp | *I don't speak for Microsoft!!! *
email address: dan...@microsoft.com