Beldin
s...@gumby.oup-usa.org
>> In DLoK Beldin is disguised as the jugler/etc Felegahst.
>> SO, my question is this.When Garion etc meet Beldin for
>> the first time in the Belgariad Polgara says that Beldin
>> does not like his deformed body and so does not look after
>> it......SO given that Beldin (etc) can change their shape/
>> looks why did Beldin not change permanently into a 'shape'
>> he could live with..?
And Graeme Shiomi writes:
> Well, he could have changed his form permanently, but
> that would not be true to him.
> In the entire Mallorean/Belgariad series, he is only two
> forms 'permanently'. One, his dwarf/gnarled self, and two,
> the blue-banded hawk. For the first half of his life he is
> the dwarf, since it is his true 'outer' form, and more
> practical for his job, and for the second half of his life
> he is the hawk, since it is his true 'inner' form, and is
> what he would really want to be.
Is it true that he could change to any form permanently? It
seems to me that sorcerers have two true forms; as Graeme
mentions, an outer human form, and an inner animal form that
they change to easily. Other forms seem to require more effort
to hold together. Remember when we first saw Beldin as Feldegast
with Vella and she gives him some extremely potent Nadrak drink?
He slips for a moment and the hunchback form wavers back.
(Garion sees this but it's gone so quickly that he thinks it's
a trick of the light or something.)
Layla
By the way: I'm sure this was mentioned in the books somewhere,
but why doesn't Polgara have a "Bel-"? Is it just for male
sorcerers?
s...@gumby.oup-usa.org
had erased all the messages (of course):
I asked why Polgara doesn't have a "Bel-" and someone kindly explained
that "Pol-" is the feminine suffix that is equivalent to "Bel-".
So the Bel of Beldaran is a complete coincidence? It seems like an
awfully powerful syllable to be throwing around randomly. Unless
it's a way of linking her to Belgarath and Polgara without naming her
as a sorcerer (like calling Garion Polgarion, sort of).
Layla
Lord Rodness
>By the way: I'm sure this was mentioned in the books somewhere,
>but why doesn't Polgara have a "Bel-"? Is it just for male
>sorcerers?
>
In one book, i *think* it was Magician's Gambit (not sure) when they are
in the Vale of Aldur and Garion talks to Belgareth in his tower,
Belgareth tells him that 'Bel' is an honorary prefix given him by Aldur,
meaning 'beloved.' He said that his original name was Gareth.
He also said that 'Pol' is the female equivalent of 'Bel', and that
Polgara's original name was Gara.
__________________________________________________________________
---Rod Fleischer--- \ "My homeroom strikes fear in the hearts of /
A.k.a. Lord Rodness \ babies! I am the 'Blue Thunder' of /
rfl...@gl.umbc.edu \ Furinkan Kookoo!" -Kunou Tatewaki /
------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions expressed here are mine and not my employers'.
Jaakko J Kangasharju
Isn't Din a silly name (Bel-din)?
---
J. K. Harju
"Being perfect is not easy - nor is it enough."
Day Jack W
>In article <39ll1n$a...@redstone.interpath.net>, <s...@gumby.oup-usa.org> wrote:
>>By the way: I'm sure this was mentioned in the books somewhere,
>>but why doesn't Polgara have a "Bel-"? Is it just for male
>>sorcerers?
>>
>
>In one book, i *think* it was Magician's Gambit (not sure) when they are
>in the Vale of Aldur and Garion talks to Belgareth in his tower,
>Belgareth tells him that 'Bel' is an honorary prefix given him by Aldur,
>meaning 'beloved.' He said that his original name was Gareth.
>He also said that 'Pol' is the female equivalent of 'Bel', and that
>Polgara's original name was Gara.
>
__
____________________________________________________________
>A.k.a. Lord Rodness \ babies! I am the 'Blue Thunder' of /
>rfl...@gl.umbc.edu \ Furinkan Kookoo!" -Kunou Tatewaki /
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The opinions expressed here are mine and not my employers'.
>
>
>
Hmm, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the name of Garion's mother
Beldaren? I've not read the opening books of the Belgariad in a while
but I just finished reading the Mallerion again and if I remember
correctly Belgarion named his new daughter in respect for his dead
mother (I remember that Poledra and Polgara were both very happy
about this while Ce'nedra was busy trying to figure out where to
stick an 'X' into the name to celebrate the child's dryad heritage).
And while I'm speaking of this... Shouldn't there be an 'X' in
Ce'nedra's name? There may be (perhaps it's really Xe'nedra) but I
can't remember. Guess I'll have to go back and read the second book
of the first series again...
John Vilnis
8< Clip, Clip >8
: Layla
: By the way: I'm sure this was mentioned in the books somewhere,
: but why doesn't Polgara have a "Bel-"? Is it just for male
: sorcerers?
Polgara's name was Gara but Belgarath changed it to Pol-Gara when her
hair gained the white lock!
Polgara's name was Gara but Belgarath changed it to Pol-Gara when her
hair gained the white lock!
Polgara's name was Gara but Belgarath changed it to Pol-Gara when her
hair gained the white lock!
Polgara's name was Gara but Belgarath changed it to Pol-Gara when her
hair gained the white lock!
Polgara's name was Gara but Belgarath changed it to Pol-Gara when her
hair gained the white lock!
Polgara's name was Gara but Belgarath changed it to Pol-Gara when her
hair gained the white lock!
Polgara's name was Gara but Belgarath changed it to Pol-Gara when her
hair gained the white lock!
Polgara's name was Gara but Belgarath changed it to Pol-Gara when her
hair gained the white lock!
CRAIG JOHN LENNOX COWLED
: Graeme Shiomi wrote:
: > In the entire Mallorean/Belgariad series, he is only two
: > forms 'permanently'. One, his dwarf/gnarled self, and two,
: > the blue-banded hawk. For the first half of his life he is
: > the dwarf, since it is his true 'outer' form, and more
: > practical for his job, and for the second half of his life
: > he is the hawk, since it is his true 'inner' form, and is
: > what he would really want to be.
And Layla writes:
: Is it true that he could change to any form permanently? It
: seems to me that sorcerers have two true forms; as Graeme
: mentions, an outer human form, and an inner animal form that
: they change to easily. Other forms seem to require more effort
: to hold together.
I would like to question the assumption that "user's of the Will and the
Word" only have "two true forms". If you recall Poledra and how she
spent a thousand years or so in Belgarath's tower. When she saw
Belgarath shape-change she said something like, "so that's how you do
it," (paraphrase) and promptly turned into something else. If I remember
correctly it was in MG and Belgarath was chatting with Garion and
reminisced how he never knew what form she'd employ every other time he
turned around. (Sorry, clumsy sentence, but you get my drift, don't you.)
What I'm trying to say is that Poledra moved quite freely between forms;
three, specifically:
i) The wolf,
ii) The owl and
iii) The tawny-haired woman that Belgarath loved.
I'm sure, however, that she, or any other proficient sorcerer, could
easily change into any particular form. So, I would contest the idea of
there being only two "true" forms by saying that they are merely
'preferred' forms. Although there could be some literary argument to
support some Freudian relationship between the human and animal self;
the id and the super-ego.
I think that Eddings view of 'Sorcery' is that it is limited only by the
mind and imagination. In fact, I seem to recall Polgara or Belgarath
saying something of this kind to Garion in MG or CoW. Might be worth
checking up.
Craig.
CRAIG JOHN LENNOX COWLED
: In article <39ll1n$a...@redstone.interpath.net>, <s...@gumby.oup-usa.org> wrote:
: >By the way: I'm sure this was mentioned in the books somewhere,
: >but why doesn't Polgara have a "Bel-"? Is it just for male
: >sorcerers?
: >
: In one book, i *think* it was Magician's Gambit (not sure) when they are
: in the Vale of Aldur and Garion talks to Belgareth in his tower,
: Belgareth tells him that 'Bel' is an honorary prefix given him by Aldur,
: meaning 'beloved.' He said that his original name was Gareth.
: He also said that 'Pol' is the female equivalent of 'Bel', and that
: Polgara's original name was Gara.
OK. I'll agree that 'Pol' is the female equivalent of 'Bel', Eddings
said so himself. Then why does Belgarath name his other daughter
'Beldaran'? Is it supposed to imply that Beldaran was a bit of a
tomboy? If so, Eddings must have slipped up coz' he shows clearly that
Polgara was more of a tomboy than her sister. (Remember when she is
explaining to Garion at Riva how she always had a certain something for
the impressively tall, blond and handsome Riva. She said that she was
tall, gangly and altogether unbeautiful (paraphrase). Doesn't this seem
to imply that Polgara, moreso than her sister, deserves the 'Bel'
prefix? Can you imagine 'Belgara' and 'Poldaran'?) Then again, maybe
Eddings just did it for effect. But, if he did, I'd like to know why;
coz' it's confusing the heck out of me. Ideas please!!
K McIsaac
>From: cj...@deakin.edu.au (CRAIG JOHN LENNOX COWLED)
>Subject: Re: Beldin
>Date: 9 Nov 1994 23:17:50 GMT
>I would like to question the assumption that "user's of the Will and the
>Word" only have "two true forms". If you recall Poledra and how she
>spent a thousand years or so in Belgarath's tower. When she saw
>Belgarath shape-change she said something like, "so that's how you do
>it," (paraphrase) and promptly turned into something else. If I remember
>correctly it was in MG and Belgarath was chatting with Garion and
>reminisced how he never knew what form she'd employ every other time he
>turned around. (Sorry, clumsy sentence, but you get my drift, don't you.)
Good point. Remember also that even Garion turned into a falcon once (they
had to get back to Riva in a hurry), and that Garion did not really choose
the wolf form. Belgarath just told him to turn into a wolf.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Give us a boy until he's five, and he's ours."
-Ignatius of Loyola.
G.B. Christianson
Re: Pol- and Bel-
I think it is worth noting that everyone who has the Pol or Bel prefix in
correct usage (by which I mean the gender specification outlined by
Eddings in MG) has the Will and the Word. Beldaran did not have that
ability, and so maybe it was decided that the normal rules did not apply.
Or maybe Belgarath wanted at least one of his kids named after him.
After all, Polera, Polgara, and Poldaran would get fairly repetitive.... ;)
Frostlander
"Death before death!"
DW DORAN
she does with ease and complete wolf behaviour so that gives them more
than one form also see GotW
G.T. Shiomi
>Good point. Remember also that even Garion turned into a falcon once (they
>had to get back to Riva in a hurry), and that Garion did not really choose
>the wolf form. Belgarath just told him to turn into a wolf.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, perhaps I should expand on the idea. I didn't mean they have two
forms ONLY, but certain forms they are comfortable with. Remember,
Poledra's true form was the Wolf, and she still carries herself and
thinks like a wolf, and will always be most comfortable as a wolf. She
may enjoy being an owl as well. Whether or not she enjoys being a human
is debateable. She does say that she only changed into a human so that
Belgarath would accept her. Beldin has changed into other things. He's
been a seagull, but does it with utter contempt, since he is not
comfortable with the form. Notice that he talks about other birds as if
he is truly a bird (that is, he looks down upon other birds as if the
blue-banded hawk is the only thing to be). Truly each one takes the form
they like the best (or forms, in Poledra's case). Garion experiences two
of the forms (wolf and hawk) and sees why his friends enjoy being either
form, but does not really choose one for himself (being a wolf most of
the time was only out of convenience really). Perhaps that is because he
is not really 'wolfish' or 'hawkish'. Belgarath is definitely wolfish,
always moving stealthily and mysteriously. Polgara is definitely a bird,
but a wise one. Beldin is also a bird, but a hunter, since he himself is
the hunter (of various characters, mainly the disciples of Torak).
Course, does that mean if Silk was a sorceror he'd be a rat? :->
Graeme Shiomi
Richard Jones
> said so himself. Then why does Belgarath name his other daughter
> 'Beldaran'? Is it supposed to imply that Beldaran was a bit of a
> tomboy? If so, Eddings must have slipped up coz' he shows clearly that
> Polgara was more of a tomboy than her sister. (Remember when she is
> explaining to Garion at Riva how she always had a certain something for
> the impressively tall, blond and handsome Riva. She said that she was
> tall, gangly and altogether unbeautiful (paraphrase). Doesn't this seem
> to imply that Polgara, moreso than her sister, deserves the 'Bel'
> prefix? Can you imagine 'Belgara' and 'Poldaran'?) Then again, maybe
> Eddings just did it for effect. But, if he did, I'd like to know why;
> coz' it's confusing the heck out of me. Ideas please!!
>
sorcerers, whereas Beldaran was not. This means that she can have
whatever name she likes really, but disciples of Aldur are all given the
prefix appropriate to their gender. Also it doesn't say that Polgara's
original name was Gara, she has always been Polgara, just that in the old
language it would have been, if it weren't for the fact that they knew
she was a sorcerer from birth pretty much. I hope this isn't too
confusing cos I have just re-read it and it sounds it, but I can't be
bothered to explain myself better, sorry!
Rich
Lord Rodness
>Hmm, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the name of Garion's mother
>Beldaren? I've not read the opening books of the Belgariad in a while
>but I just finished reading the Mallerion again and if I remember
>correctly Belgarion named his new daughter in respect for his dead
>mother (I remember that Poledra and Polgara were both very happy
>about this while Ce'nedra was busy trying to figure out where to
>stick an 'X' into the name to celebrate the child's dryad heritage).
>And while I'm speaking of this... Shouldn't there be an 'X' in
>Ce'nedra's name? There may be (perhaps it's really Xe'nedra) but I
>can't remember. Guess I'll have to go back and read the second book
>of the first series again...
No. Garion's parents were Geran and Ildera (i *think* that was her name)
(QoS, or was it PoP?)
Beldaren was Polgara's sister. Polgara and Poledra appreciated it because
Garion named his daughter after their longlost daughter/sister. (CoW i think)
And Ce'Nedra said her name really was X'Nedra, but it was spelled with a
'Ce' to accommodate the Tolnedran spelling. (GotW i believe this was)
__________________________________________________________________
Ms Zara Baxter
I always thought that Pols name was Gara...with the 'Pol' added, and hence
Beldarans name is Beldaran, not Daran with a 'bel' tacked on...
if she was a sorceress that would make her Polbeldaran....eughh...messy
Moomaid
* a life without mistakes is like a muffin without blueberries*
Sandra Milne
>I always thought that Pols name was Gara...with the 'Pol' added, and hence
>Beldarans name is Beldaran, not Daran with a 'bel' tacked on...
>if she was a sorceress that would make her Polbeldaran....eughh...messy
Perhaps that's why Belgarath chose to send her to be the Queen instead of
Polgara!!!!!
:-)
Dayna.
Kalten
: 'Beldaran'? Is it supposed to imply that Beldaran was a bit of a
: tomboy? If so, Eddings must have slipped up coz' he shows clearly that
: Polgara was more of a tomboy than her sister. (Remember when she is
: explaining to Garion at Riva how she always had a certain something for
: the impressively tall, blond and handsome Riva. She said that she was
: tall, gangly and altogether unbeautiful (paraphrase). Doesn't this seem
: to imply that Polgara, moreso than her sister, deserves the 'Bel'
: prefix? Can you imagine 'Belgara' and 'Poldaran'?) Then again, maybe
: Eddings just did it for effect. But, if he did, I'd like to know why;
: coz' it's confusing the heck out of me. Ideas please!!
At the end of the day, 'Bel' simply means 'Beloved'. Now, seeing as it
is obvious that the significance of the sorceress is using the word 'Pol'
in females, then 'Bel' on Beldaran is simply an affection.
Kalten~!!!
Kalten
Well, Polgara is named after him - the gara bit comes from garath of
Belgarath.
Kalten~!!!
Kalten
: If Aldur changed the name of his disciples (i.e. Garath->Belgarath,
: Zedar->Belzedar) then was Beldin's original name Din? Sounds a bit silly
: if you ask me...
Now, actually it keeps things simple. Think about it, when Belgarath had
Polgara, he said to himself, I'll add Pol from Poledra (also cos shes a
sorcerer) and now, what part of my own name should I add? Gara? Garath?
Arath? Ath?
Now when Beldin has kids, he'll have it all sorted, he just says, I'll
add Din to my kids' name! Tum De Dum De Dum! No worries!
Kalten~!!!
Ms Zara Baxter
>moomaid wrote
>>I always thought that Pols name was Gara...with the 'Pol' added, and hence
>>Beldarans name is Beldaran, not Daran with a 'bel' tacked on...
>>if she was a sorceress that would make her Polbeldaran....eughh...messy
>
>Perhaps that's why Belgarath chose to send her to be the Queen instead of
>Polgara!!!!!
>
Yeah...could you imagine???....*grin*.... I think bel-Geran or Bel-durnik are
a bit of a mouthful too!!
Moomaid
Ms Zara Baxter
>If Aldur changed the name of his disciples (i.e. Garath->Belgarath,
>Zedar->Belzedar) then was Beldin's original name Din? Sounds a bit silly
>if you ask me...
>
>---
> J. K. Harju
>
> "Being perfect is not easy - nor is it enough"
>
Is Din such a bad name??....besides...as I've pointed out before, Beldurnik
sounds *much* worse!
imagine if Ce'Nedra became a sorceress!!! ]:-O
Moomaid....
Mistress of Bovinity
Keeper of the Udder of Death..