Anakha really isn't Anakha...read on
Scav
Throughout the Elenium we are told (by Aphreal I think) that the destinies
of all men but Anakha are known to the gods, and that's what makes them
nervous.
Here's the thing though: Let's say I'm Azash (oooh hatin' it inside this
mud idol :-(), and I want to know what fate has planned for
Sparhawk--Confound it! I can't tell! Then a thought occurs... Why not just
look into the destinies of everyone around the noble Pandion?
It's simple - if Azash looks into the future and sees all the Zemochs
godless, and that happens to, oh, let's say, concide with the coming of
Anakha (gods new he was coming-Sephrenia was sent to bring him up) he'd
probably want to take steps because he'd know right there that Anakha *was*
going to kill him.
Azash (or any god for that matter) couldn't control Anakha in any way, but
he could sure as heck make a mess of his family tree/friends/etc!
Through examining the destinies of everyone surrounding Anakha any god
could tell exactly what 'hawk/anakha would accomplish in his lifetime,
thereby negating his 'unknown' fate.
Comments, suggestions?
Forever petty
Scav
--
"DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy,
and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million
machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that
cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do
not denote a higher life form."
New York Times, November 26, 1991
Rumor
A sound was heard, drifting upon the winds, that nestled in my furred,
wolven ears. m...@there.CA (Scav) had spoken such sounds, and what I
perceived of them was thus:
>Throughout the Elenium we are told (by Aphreal I think) that the destinies
>of all men but Anakha are known to the gods, and that's what makes them
>nervous.
>Here's the thing though: Let's say I'm Azash (oooh hatin' it inside this
>mud idol :-(), and I want to know what fate has planned for
>Sparhawk--Confound it! I can't tell! Then a thought occurs... Why not just
>look into the destinies of everyone around the noble Pandion?
Hmm... I brought this up a looong time ago, but no on bought it. Let's
give it another run, shall we?
>It's simple - if Azash looks into the future and sees all the Zemochs
>godless, and that happens to, oh, let's say, concide with the coming of
>Anakha (gods new he was coming-Sephrenia was sent to bring him up) he'd
>probably want to take steps because he'd know right there that Anakha *was*
>going to kill him.
First of all, no god can see the future. As Aphrael explains, they can
get 'flashes' of things that may or may not happen - these hints at
destiny are mostly feelings and definitely imprecise. Naturall, this
makes it impossible to pinpoint things and plan around them. One can
simply prepare in a broad manner for eventualities.
>Azash (or any god for that matter) couldn't control Anakha in any way, but
>he could sure as heck make a mess of his family tree/friends/etc!
True. Azash was an idiot, though, and Otha was worse. Cyrgon was the
worst of them all though. Elder Gods seem to have been lacking in the
intelligence department.
>Through examining the destinies of everyone surrounding Anakha any god
>could tell exactly what 'hawk/anakha would accomplish in his lifetime,
>thereby negating his 'unknown' fate.
But one cannot precisely examine the destinies of anyone (As I said
above). And Sparhawk was still Anakha. Steered or not by Aphrael and
Sephrenia, he still had his own mind and actions. This is plainly
illustrated in his confrontation with Azash when he scares the spit
out of Bhelliom, the Troll Gods, and Azash by threatening to destroy
the flower-gem.
My original theory was that Sparhawk was not truly a man without
destiny because he was highly influenced, as far back as his ancestors
during King Antor's time, by Aphrael and Sephrenia. The goddess
herself admits that she planned things way in advance for where
Sparhawk would be born and what environment he would grow up in. While
it is not known if gods have destiny, Sephrenia surely does, and thus,
_indirectly,_ Sparhawk is not truly Anakha.
But this is only true to some extent. Sparhawk was a strange man, the
influence of Bhelliom, I suppose, who is also without destiny, and
still made most of his own choices, which made him very unpredictable
and still very much Anakha. Bhelliom admits this indirectly by
influencing Aphrael to influence Sparhawk (complicated. isn't it?).
The gem coaxed Aphrael to mold Sparhawk's circumstances, which she
herself explains later, and so he shows that Sparhawk _was_ able to be
influenced by others' destinies, but the gem maintained a tight
control in the most important influences, and thus maintained Anakha.
Another way of looking at it is this: Sparhawk _did_ have destiny - he
was destined to take up Bhelliom - but that destiny could not be seen
by anyone but Bhelliom, because it was Bhelliom who controlled his
destiny.
So goes the theory...
-- Rumor
(the literary wolf)
greg jacques
m...@there.CA (Scav) wrote:
>
>Throughout the Elenium we are told (by Aphreal I think) that the destinies
>of all men but Anakha are known to the gods, and that's what makes them
>nervous.
>
>Here's the thing though: Let's say I'm Azash (oooh hatin' it inside this
>mud idol :-(), and I want to know what fate has planned for
>Sparhawk--Confound it! I can't tell! Then a thought occurs... Why not just
>look into the destinies of everyone around the noble Pandion?
>
>godless, and that happens to, oh, let's say, concide with the coming of
>Anakha (gods new he was coming-Sephrenia was sent to bring him up) he'd
>probably want to take steps because he'd know right there that Anakha *was*
>going to kill him.
>
>he could sure as heck make a mess of his family tree/friends/etc!
>
>could tell exactly what 'hawk/anakha would accomplish in his lifetime,
>thereby negating his 'unknown' fate.
>
This unknown destiny thing does work: - If it was Ehlana's destiny to be
Anakha wife, wouldn't it them be Anakha's destiny to be Ehlana's husband.
So then you could tell what his destiny is.
Renee
martha...@worldnet.att.net
On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:28:15 GMT, sa...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Rumor)
wrote:
> My original theory was that Sparhawk was not truly a man without
>destiny because he was highly influenced, as far back as his ancestors
>during King Antor's time, by Aphrael and Sephrenia. The goddess
>herself admits that she planned things way in advance for where
>Sparhawk would be born and what environment he would grow up in. While
>it is not known if gods have destiny, Sephrenia surely does, and thus,
>_indirectly,_ Sparhawk is not truly Anakha.
I've been mulling over this since dinner last night. First, pardon me
if I bring in another author/book/character/ng discussion, but it
struck me as similar.
The character Min in WoT (Jordan) has viewings which are possible
destinies for others. Sometimes she can say with certainty, just a
knowing she has, that the viewing "IS" going to happen with respect to
the other character.
My point is a person's fate line (ouch, now I've brought in Anthony's
Immortals), and thus Sparhawk/Anakha's fate line. Every line is
interwoven, and the choices/destinies diverge inexplicably when they
meet with other lines. Min would fail to state unequivocably on some
viewings because the person she was viewing was destined at some point
to enter a point of choice on his/her line and she could not see
beyond that point except as possibility.
The part of Sparhawk that was Sparhawk had a fate line that, if it
were viewed in that fashion, would display possibilities and
probabilities, and perhaps on some occasions a definite. The part of
Sparhawk that was Anakha had no fate line and nothing would be viewed.
And at the point where Sparhawk is Anakha are the knots or whorls in
the fate line where Sparhawk has choice and the line from that point
doesn't exist until the choice is made.
If one of the gods tried to view anyone around Sparhawk to get an idea
of what would happen in the future, the knots and whorls of choice for
all of them, especially those by Sparhawk that influence each of them,
would interfere to such an extent that nothing but possibilities would
ever show up.
There, did I totally confuse that enough. :) I do hate that. I know
what I was thinking. Just couldn't get it said properly.
Aslade
* * * * *
http://www4.linknet.net/datax/mcl.htm
Jeff Brown
Scav wrote:
>
> Throughout the Elenium we are told (by Aphreal I think) that the destinies
> of all men but Anakha are known to the gods, and that's what makes them
> nervous.
You're doing good there...
>
> Here's the thing though: Let's say I'm Azash (oooh hatin' it inside this
> mud idol :-(), and I want to know what fate has planned for
> Sparhawk--Confound it! I can't tell! Then a thought occurs... Why not just
> look into the destinies of everyone around the noble Pandion?
Aphrael expalined that during one of the books of the Elen, seems that
whatever Anakha is involved in becomes very blurry and uncertain. The
way that I look at it is by imagining a still pool of water with a very
clear reflection on it, you can see everything very clearly. Now there
is a rock that is outside of that pool of water, that rock is Anakha,
throw the rock (Anakha) into the pool and see how clear everything is
then. You really can't tell anything that is going on where he is
concered.
>
> It's simple - if Azash looks into the future and sees all the Zemochs
> godless, and that happens to, oh, let's say, concide with the coming of
> Anakha (gods new he was coming-Sephrenia was sent to bring him up) he'd
> probably want to take steps because he'd know right there that Anakha *was*
> going to kill him.
See analogy above.
> Azash (or any god for that matter) couldn't control Anakha in any way, but
> he could sure as heck make a mess of his family tree/friends/etc!
>
> Through examining the destinies of everyone surrounding Anakha any god
> could tell exactly what 'hawk/anakha would accomplish in his lifetime,
> thereby negating his 'unknown' fate.
>
> Comments, suggestions?
Everyone that is closely associated with Anakha would also be protected
to a degree. If Anakha decided to up and start a campain to convert all
of Tamuli then everyone with him becomes unclear because he has do
destiny. You might be able to see some possible results to the set of
questions, but none of them would be very clear.
All of this is IMHO of course.<G>
Sparhawk
Aphrael
m...@there.CA (Scav) articulated thusly:
>Throughout the Elenium we are told (by Aphreal I think) that the destinies
>of all men but Anakha are known to the gods, and that's what makes them
>nervous.
SPELL MY NAME RIGHT, DAMMIT! :+)
>Through examining the destinies of everyone surrounding Anakha any god
>could tell exactly what 'hawk/anakha would accomplish in his lifetime,
>thereby negating his 'unknown' fate.
Well, as someone else already pointed out, no God could completely
tell the future; they could only catch glimpses and hints. With this
in mind, my theory is that Bhelliom deliberately clouds any perception
of Anakha's destiny as it relates to Bhelliom or its power.
Therefore, there would be all these holes in his and everyone else's
destinies, which may be why the Gods can only catch certain glimpses.
Or perhaps Bhelliom simply controlled what the gods could and could
not see, period. Therefore, Azash knew that Anakha was coming, since
it knew that Sephrenia's destiny was to bring Anakha to Zemoch,
because Bhelliom wanted to scare the **** out of him, but Azash had no
idea what would happen once Anakha arrived.
Aph
------------------
Aphrael
aph...@microserve.net
Co-Founder and Spokes-Goddess, ACETS
"Conservatives wouldn't even change their underwear if they didn't have to."
--Aphrael, "The Shining Ones"
Vive Céline! (who deserves to win every one of those 4 Grammy nominations!)
Brent Williams
Not a bad theory, but you have to remember that Aphrael could (and DID)
also do this. She also had the tacit blessing, if not outright support
of her family in doing this, so she was able to stop Azash's attempts.
Of course, given the characterization given to him (even though sketchy
at best) AND the fact that Aphrael emasculated him (apparently robbing
him of the most significant of his powers.... is it possible, given the
almost subsidiary role of men is Stryic society, the Azash's power is
linked to masculinity, and testosterone?[just musing]), I would guess
the Aphrael is truely the most dangerous of the Gods. Being that she
couldn't directly control Anakha without getting personally involved
(and that's not her style, anyway), she managed Sparhawks destiny from
within, acting just like a human in guessing the best course for his
life and steering things in those general directions.
Of course, my defense of Sparhawk raises more questions than answers,
and is not offered as proof either way. Also, what about all the loose
ends left lying around? It's not like Eddings to leave so many teasers
(eg. Talen and Khalad's latent magical abilities. Surely they are more
than just "sensetives". Also, this makes Aphrael's motive for her
interest in Talen suspect.)
Peta Young
Brent Williams (be...@kiva.net.no.spam) wrote:
: (eg. Talen and Khalad's latent magical abilities. Surely they are more
: than just "sensetives". Also, this makes Aphrael's motive for her
: interest in Talen suspect.)
Just for my personal interests (and the fact that I haven't read the books
in ages), what "latent magical abilities" are you talking about here?
Peta
Phil Barker
On 21-Feb-97 03:49:08, Peta Young said about Re: Anakha really isn't
Anakha...read on:
PY> Just for my personal interests (and the fact that I haven't read
PY> the books in ages), what "latent magical abilities" are you
PY> talking about here?
By Talen's latent magical abililies, I think he's referring to Talen
getting a weird feeling from the watcher, and also when Talen said he
had a weird feeling after seeing a party of Styrics come into Cimmura
once.
I don't remember any particular reference to any similar occurence
with Khalad though.
--
Phil Barker
ph...@bungie.u-net.com
Bun-G on IRC
--
Exercise daily. Eat wisely. Die anyway.
Brent Williams
> >(eg. Talen and Khalad's latent magical abilities. Surely they are more
> >than just "sensetives". Also, this makes Aphrael's motive for her
> >interest in Talen suspect.)
>
> ends left lying around at the end of the Tamuli, and many of us hope
> that Eddings plans to tie some of them up with a prequel or sequel.
> But I wouldn't say that Khalad and Talen necessarily have latent
> magical abilities any more so than any other human being. Any person
> who can learn to speak Styric apparently can learn to use Styric magic
> (although some may be better skilled than others). Khalad and Talen
> will both be trained in the secrets but that's only because they are
> both going to be Pandions.
>
> Aph
>
> ------------------
> Aphrael
> aph...@microserve.net
> Co-Founder and Spokes-Goddess, ACETS
>
> "Conservatives wouldn't even change their underwear if they didn't have to."
> --Aphrael, "The Shining Ones"
> Vive Céline! (who deserves to win every one of those 4 Grammy nominations!)
I had to look this up, so I'll quote the passage:
"...Sparhawk," he said,"is someone following you?"
"It's possible, I suppose."
"I'm not talking about a church soldier. There was a man at the far
end of the street -- at least I think it was a man. He was wearing a
monk's habit, and the hood covered his face, so I couldn't be sure."
"There are a lot of monks in Cimmurra."
"Not like this one. It made me cold all over just to look at him."
Sparhawk looked at him sharpely. "Have you ever has this kind of
feeling before, Talen?"
"Once. Platime sent me to the west gate to meet somebody. Some
Styrics were coming into the city, and after they passed, I couldn't
keep my mind on what I was supposed to be doing. It was two days before
I could shake off that feeling/"
There was not really any point in telling the boy the truth about the
matter. Many people were sensetives, and it seldom went any further."
--The Diamond Throne, p111.
A similar thing also happened in The Hidden City, but in this case, the
exchage was between Berit and Khalad. I'm reaching, but I think
sensetive means that a potentially great magical ability is hidden
within these types of people. A revisiting of a theme that magic users
are marked in some way, perhaps.
Anyway, if Talen DOES have such potential, what can we assume about
Aphrael (and Danae's) attraction for him?
Aphrael
Brent Williams <be...@kiva.net.no.spam> articulated thusly:
>Of course, given the characterization given to him (even though sketchy
>at best) AND the fact that Aphrael emasculated him (apparently robbing
>him of the most significant of his powers.... is it possible, given the
>almost subsidiary role of men is Stryic society, the Azash's power is
>linked to masculinity, and testosterone?[just musing]),
It would seem that way. After all, why would Aphrael emasculate him
otherwise. She's not generally one to do something like that just for
the sake of doing it. And besides, recall the pose in which the idol
was formed -- thrusting out its pelvis to emphasize the parts that
used to be there.
>I would guess
>the Aphrael is truely the most dangerous of the Gods.
I think Aphrael is the most dangerous of the Gods simply because she's
such a master manipulator.
*zap*
>Of course, my defense of Sparhawk raises more questions than answers,
>and is not offered as proof either way. Also, what about all the loose
>ends left lying around? It's not like Eddings to leave so many teasers
Rumor
A sound was heard, drifting upon the winds, that nestled in my furred,
sounds, and what I perceived of them was thus:
(*chomp* - useful quote)
>A similar thing also happened in The Hidden City, but in this case, the
>exchage was between Berit and Khalad. I'm reaching, but I think
>sensetive means that a potentially great magical ability is hidden
>within these types of people. A revisiting of a theme that magic users
>are marked in some way, perhaps.
I wouldn't go so far as to say "great" magical ability; some people
are better than others at all things -they have natural aptitudes -
and that should naturally extend to the skill of magic practice. Talen
and Khalad obviously show signs of being naturally inclined towards
magic, and it seems logical that with good training they could become
adepts (much like Martel was said to have been, although I'm not
implying any dark suggestions by mentioning him).
>Anyway, if Talen DOES have such potential, what can we assume about
>Aphrael (and Danae's) attraction for him?
I doubt that she'd choose a husband based on that... why not Khalad
then? *grin*
I think Danae just... likes Talen. You know what I mean. ^_^
-- Rumor
Aphrael
Brent Williams <be...@kiva.net.no.spam> articulated thusly:
<helpful quote snipped>
Thanks for the quote. Yes, it does seem like Talen has some sort of
sixth sense that may be connected to a latent talent for magic.
>A similar thing also happened in The Hidden City, but in this case, the
>exchage was between Berit and Khalad. I'm reaching, but I think
>sensetive means that a potentially great magical ability is hidden
>within these types of people. A revisiting of a theme that magic users
>are marked in some way, perhaps.
Hmm....this one I don't recall, and I'm too lazy to look up all the
scenes with Berit and Khalad, so I'll take your word for it. With
Khalad, though, usually his ability to sense things is because of his
extra-sharp observation of everything and his common sense. See my
other post for why I think Khalad may not turn out to be such a
talented magician.
>Anyway, if Talen DOES have such potential, what can we assume about
>Aphrael (and Danae's) attraction for him?
I personally don't think it has anything to do with magical abilities.
I think Aphrael is attracted to Talen because she sees someone clever
and manipulative and sneaky just like herself. She figures they'll
have an interesting life together. Rather similar to Liselle's
attraction to Silk, actually. One could argue that Aph's setting
Talen up to become her High Priest, but where does that leave
Sephrenia? (Unless she's planning to retire and settle down with
Vanion and have a family.) Besides, Talen has to at least appear to
be a member of the Elene faith to be a Church Knight, so it would be
difficult for him to be a Styric priest in his spare time.
Aphrael
sa...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Rumor) articulated thusly:
> I wouldn't go so far as to say "great" magical ability; some people
>are better than others at all things -they have natural aptitudes -
>and that should naturally extend to the skill of magic practice. Talen
>and Khalad obviously show signs of being naturally inclined towards
>magic, and it seems logical that with good training they could become
>adepts (much like Martel was said to have been, although I'm not
>implying any dark suggestions by mentioning him).
I don't know so much about Khalad. Remember how Sephrenia emphasizes
how important it is for a person casting a Styric spell to understand
Styric? And remember the following scene?
From The Hidden City, p. 32, American paperback edition:
Khalad: "Is magic very hard to learn?"
Berit: "The magic itself isn't too hard. The hard part is learning
the Styric language. Styric doesn't have any regular verbs. They're
_all_ irregular -- and there are nine tenses."
Khalad: "Berit, please speak plain Elenic."
Berit: "You know what a verb is, don't you?"
Khalad: "Sort of, but what is a tense?"
This suggests to me that Khalad may, in fact, have a very hard time
learning magic, just like Kalten.
Hutty
Brent Williams wrote:
>
> > >(eg. Talen and Khalad's latent magical abilities. Surely they are more
> > >than just "sensetives". Also, this makes Aphrael's motive for her
> > >interest in Talen suspect.)
> >
> > What exactly do you mean by "sensitives?" There are a lot of loose
> > ends left lying around at the end of the Tamuli, and many of us hope
> > that Eddings plans to tie some of them up with a prequel or sequel.
> > But I wouldn't say that Khalad and Talen necessarily have latent
> > magical abilities any more so than any other human being. Any person
> > who can learn to speak Styric apparently can learn to use Styric magic
> > (although some may be better skilled than others). Khalad and Talen
> > will both be trained in the secrets but that's only because they are
> > both going to be Pandions.
> >
> >
> > ------------------
> > Aphrael
> > aph...@microserve.net
> > Co-Founder and Spokes-Goddess, ACETS
> >
> > "Conservatives wouldn't even change their underwear if they didn't have to."
> > --Aphrael, "The Shining Ones"
> > Vive Céline! (who deserves to win every one of those 4 Grammy nominations!)
>
errr ok...this is like umm the first time ive ever posted here so ill be
brief...
i thought that T and K had those "funny" (for lack of a better word)
feelings that they were looking upon some a) supernatural being or b)
maybe some magic rite...so its just my guess that it made them get all
goosebumpy or something, cuz i know i sure would if i thought i saw a
demon
i dunno but thats just my guess
Hutty
Brent Williams
> This suggests to me that Khalad may, in fact, have a very hard time
> learning magic, just like Kalten.
I don't know about that. Khalad hasn't had too much in to way of a
formal education. The fact that he doesn't know the names of the
different terms of grammer doesn't mean that he will have trouble
learning the language, and it doesn't mean that he can not learn the
language easily. Khalad is a very clever young man, and doesn't miss
too much, observationaly. He already suspects that Danae is Aphrael,
and goes as far as to mention his suspicions to Berit, who immediatly
pop-poos the idea.
I think that if the instructor of the secrets the will teach Khalad the
language is patient, and more than a bit mechanically inclined (read
clever) should have no REAL difficulty in teaching the language.
Also, remember that even though Kalten can not speak the language, he
CAN understand a little. Also, Kalten is lazy.... and he CLAIMS that
the only reason that he could not learn the language is the wierd mix of
vowels and consonants.
Peta Young
Hutty (hu...@ebicom.net) wrote:
: ><snipped>... Talen and Kahlad magic stuff
: errr ok...this is like umm the first time ive ever posted here so ill be
: brief...
: i thought that T and K had those "funny" (for lack of a better word)
: feelings that they were looking upon some a) supernatural being or b)
: maybe some magic rite...so its just my guess that it made them get all
: goosebumpy or something, cuz i know i sure would if i thought i saw a
: demon
: i dunno but thats just my guess
I'm going with your brilliant suggestion here. I think it has more to do
with (a) both Khalad and Talen are observant boys and (b) the people who
were involved (ie. the groups of Styrics - they were probably using some
kind of magic and Talen just doesn't look favourably on people who skulk
around towns, except for himself of course!)
Peta
Aquarius
Rumor (sa...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca) spoo'd forth:
: True. Azash was an idiot, though, and Otha was worse. Cyrgon was the
: worst of them all though. Elder Gods seem to have been lacking in the
: intelligence department.
Was Cyrgon an Elder god? Didn't think he was. Or am I misinterpreting the
above paragraph?
: But this is only true to some extent. Sparhawk was a strange man, the
: influence of Bhelliom, I suppose, who is also without destiny,
Really? I didn't think Bhelliom was without destiny.
"Bhelliom's destiny is even more obscure than yours, and I can't tell from
one minute to the next what *you're* going to do" - Aphrael to Sparhawk, I
think.
I'll come back to this post later; I'm a little busy at the moment....
Aq.
--
"The grand plan that is Aquarius proceeds apace." - 'Ronin', Frank Miller.
----aqua...@cryogen.com | http://www.netforward.com/cryogen/?aquarius----
I would not bet against the existence of time machines. My opponent might
------ have seen the future and know the answer. - Stephen Hawking -------
Rumor
A sound was heard, drifting upon the winds, that nestled in my furred,
sounds, and what I perceived of them was thus:
>Was Cyrgon an Elder god? Didn't think he was. Or am I misinterpreting the
>above paragraph?
Ah, sorry about that. My fault for being obscure. I was just grouping
him with the rest of the really-nasty-but-generally-useless-now Gods.
^_^
>: But this is only true to some extent. Sparhawk was a strange man, the
>: influence of Bhelliom, I suppose, who is also without destiny,
>Really? I didn't think Bhelliom was without destiny.
>"Bhelliom's destiny is even more obscure than yours, and I can't tell from
>one minute to the next what *you're* going to do" - Aphrael to Sparhawk, I
>think.
Actually, that quote is perfect. Look closely; Aph's saying that she
can't see Sparhawk's destiny, and Bhelliom's is even worse. By saying
Anakha - or Bhelliom - has no destiny, what I mean is that their
destiny can't be seen. Sorry, but Anakha was always referred to as
having no destiny, so I tend to say it that way too, even though the
truth is that no one can see their destiny.
-- Rumor
(the explanatory wolf)
Ian Hutcherson
On 24 Feb 1997 14:38:32 GMT, Aquarius <S.I.La...@durham.ac.uk>
wrote:
>Rumor (sa...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca) spoo'd forth:
>: True. Azash was an idiot, though, and Otha was worse. Cyrgon was the
>: worst of them all though. Elder Gods seem to have been lacking in the
>: intelligence department.
>
>Was Cyrgon an Elder god? Didn't think he was. Or am I misinterpreting the
>above paragraph?
Crygon was not an elder god - at least not in the context of the books
as is. The only times the elder gods are referenced is athe Stryic
Elder gods. Crygon was not a Stryic god.
Ian,
Soon to be the High Priest of the human natives for Aphrael.
Web pages now include an Eddings bit:
Robert J II Krege
In article <33106D...@kiva.net.no.spam> Brent Williams <be...@kiva.net.no.spam> writes:
>I don't know about that. Khalad hasn't had too much in to way of a
>formal education. The fact that he doesn't know the names of the
>different terms of grammer doesn't mean that he will have trouble
>learning the language, and it doesn't mean that he can not learn the
>language easily. Khalad is a very clever young man, and doesn't miss
>too much, observationaly. He already suspects that Danae is Aphrael,
>and goes as far as to mention his suspicions to Berit, who immediatly
>pop-poos the idea.
** snip **
Survey says ... X Nice example, except you have it backwards. Its
Berit who suspects that SOMETHING is wierd about the Danae/Aphrael
thing, but he can't figure it out. Indeed, it is Khalad who, as you
so eloquently put it. 'pop-poos' the idea.
Stat
Robert J II Krege
Well, Im confused. It seems that when I post through AOL, then read a.f.e
later, none of my posts show up. Some of them seem to have made it out
to the ng, while others became roadkill on the information superhighway.
Please pardon any repeated posts or late posts (such as my sandy-haired
boys comment which has been made numerous times now) while I suffer
through this hell called America Online in search of a new provider.
Thank you for your patience.
Stat
(back to using a friend's account)
Tim
> Hmm... I brought this up a looong time ago, but no on bought it. Let's
> give it another run, shall we?
>
>
I also posted something about this along time ago, so I'll just briefly recap.
I say that not only does anakha not have a destiny, neither does anyone else.
Maybe that is why the Elder gods have such a hard time telling the future. In
order to see what happens to even a lowly fishermen they would have to know
whether that fisherman would be influenced by Sparhawk. Or influenced by
someone who was influenced by influenced by someone who was influenced by
Sparhawk.... After all, if Sparhawk get Stragen to kill someone and the assasin
gets rich and buys a boat and that boat steals all the fishermens fish then the
fishermans destiny has been altered by sparhawk.
>
> . Elder Gods seem to have been lacking in the
> intelligence department.
>
Maybe they're senile? ;-)
Tim. The technical guy who wrote this.
Aquarius
Aphrael (aph...@microserve.net) spoo'd forth:
: I think Aphrael is attracted to Talen because she sees someone clever
: and manipulative and sneaky just like herself. She figures they'll
: have an interesting life together.
So why isn't she attracted to Platime?
Can you imagine their relationship?
Can you imagine Platime as *King*?
*rotfl*
Ian Hutcherson
Brent Williams <be...@kiva.net.no.spam> wrote:
<quote from TDT removed>
>A similar thing also happened in The Hidden City, but in this case, the
>exchage was between Berit and Khalad. I'm reaching, but I think
>sensetive means that a potentially great magical ability is hidden
>within these types of people. A revisiting of a theme that magic users
>are marked in some way, perhaps.
As (I think it was Aphrael) someone else stated, the ability to
perform magic, is governed by the ability to think in stryic and offer
up a prayer to whichever styric god (or Goddess) you wish to make a
request from. But people using magic are detectable, at least it is
detectable that someone in the room may be using magic. Sparhawk
notices Annias(sp?) using magic in the throneroom near the begining of
"The Diamond Throne". So there is obviously some sort of "Signature"
to using Magic, as much as the sound created by using the "Will and
the Word" in the Bel/Mal.
Maybe Sparhawk is a snesitive, and hence why he could feel the magic
in the throneroom, or perhaps it's do to his experience in using magic
that he is able to tell that something is not exactely on the level,
in that someone is using magic. Sephrina is able to tell as well.
We do know however that magic is making a request, in what is little
more then a prayer, to a stryic god. and maybe the feeling of magic
in the room is something to do with this god. (Thinking about the
cloud being described somewhere in one of the books, as being the
God/Bhellioms visiual "stink"). Once exposed to it, you know what it
is. Bu that still wouldn't explain Talen's senstivity.
Also the only time this is mentioned for a non-magic user is the
incidence with Talen, and the later on with Khaled. Too little
evidence for us to draw real conclusions on, but strange how neither
of them mentioned anything (and remmeber talen at the time did not
know about being senstive, and maybe still doesn't) ith all the oter
Magic during the books. I mean hang around on a quest with a bunch of
church knights and the pandion istrcter in the secrets, and there's
alot of agic flying around the place at times. And Talen, and then
later Khaled, didn't (as far as I recall) feel anything?
>Anyway, if Talen DOES have such potential, what can we assume about
>Aphrael (and Danae's) attraction for him?
Nothing. Talen has yet to try learning the Styric Language, and then
he has to learn to think in the stryic language, but thne agian
considering how involved Aphrael is, I don't suppose there's much he
wouldn't do for her beloved one.
Just my ir-relelvant thoughts during what is supposed to be my lunch
hour.
Ian
Aphrael
kr...@iafrica.com (Tim) articulated thusly:
>I also posted something about this along time ago, so I'll just briefly recap.
>I say that not only does anakha not have a destiny, neither does anyone else.
>Maybe that is why the Elder gods have such a hard time telling the future. In
>order to see what happens to even a lowly fishermen they would have to know
>whether that fisherman would be influenced by Sparhawk. Or influenced by
>someone who was influenced by influenced by someone who was influenced by
>Sparhawk.... After all, if Sparhawk get Stragen to kill someone and the assasin
>gets rich and buys a boat and that boat steals all the fishermens fish then the
>fishermans destiny has been altered by sparhawk.
Well, I have a theory. Bhelliom obscured Anakha's destiny by magic.
But with regard to those who are affected by Sparhawk, Bhelliom
manipulates the Gods' minds (it's possible, if it manipulated
Aphrael's mind, it can manipulate any God's mind) so that they either
can't see the parts of other people's lives that have to do with
Sparhawk or that they never make the connection in their minds. So
even though they might discover tht Ehlana's destiny was to marry
Sparhawk, they con't make the connection between Sparhawk and Anakha.
Sort of like the Orb made people not notice it was there or
Asharak/Chamdar manipulated Garion's mind so that he wasn't able to
talk about the Grolim spying on him.
Aph
------------------
Aphrael
aph...@microserve.net
Co-Founder and Spokes-Goddess, ACETS
"Conservatives wouldn't even change their underwear if they didn't have to."
--Aphrael, "The Shining Ones"
Félicitationes à Céline -- Falling Into You, Grammy Album of the Year!
Aphrael
Brent Williams <be...@kiva.net.no.spam> articulated thusly:
>I don't know about that. Khalad hasn't had too much in to way of a
>formal education. The fact that he doesn't know the names of the
>different terms of grammer doesn't mean that he will have trouble
>learning the language, and it doesn't mean that he can not learn the
>language easily. Khalad is a very clever young man, and doesn't miss
>too much, observationaly. He already suspects that Danae is Aphrael,
>and goes as far as to mention his suspicions to Berit, who immediatly
>pop-poos the idea.
Well, as someone already mentioned, it was Berit who suspected that
Danae was Aphrael and Khalad who poo-pooed the idea. I think part of
the point of this was Eddings trying to show us that Khalad didn't
know _everything_. I personally think he will never be an excellent
magician, simply because he needs to have _some_ weakness to make him
seem more human. He may be as good at it as the next knight, but I
don't think he'll be outstanding.
>I think that if the instructor of the secrets the will teach Khalad the
>language is patient, and more than a bit mechanically inclined (read
>clever) should have no REAL difficulty in teaching the language.
Somehow, I just have a feeling that Khalad won't bother to learn
Styric very well in the long run. He's a very practical-minded kind
of guy, and I honestly don't think he'll have all that much use for
magic or a language with no regular verbs. I think he'd be more like
Durnik, refusing to use sorcery for anything that could be done
without it. This is just my impression of him as a character.
>Also, remember that even though Kalten can not speak the language, he
>CAN understand a little. Also, Kalten is lazy.... and he CLAIMS that
>the only reason that he could not learn the language is the wierd mix of
>vowels and consonants.
Well, naturally one has to learn to recognize the sounds in a language
in order to form them with one's own mouth. And it's a lot easier to
recognize an irregular verb form than to remember it on your own.
Plus, we know from TDT, the first scene where we meet Kalten, that he
had trouble with Styric pronunciation. I know exactly how it is to
understand bits and pieces of a language but still have a devil of a
time pronouncing it, because I'm having the exact same problem with
French right now. So the fact that Kalten can understand a little bit
of Styric doesn't necessarily mean that he'd be able to speak it
himself if he practiced a little. I also took Spanish for three years
and did very well in it, but I never could learn how to roll my r's.
Khalad's problem seems to have more to do with not understanding the
fundamentals of grammar. To learn Styric, he would first have to
learn basic Elenic grammar. Some people never grasp the basics of the
grammar of their native language, and those are usually the same
people who do poorly in foreign language classes. I personally think
that Khalad's class prejudices are too strong and that studying
languages would seem too academic and characteristic of the gentry for
his taste.
Just my nickel's worth (inflation).
Aphrael
rkr...@oit2.iusb.edu (Robert J II Krege) articulated thusly:
>Survey says ... X Nice example, except you have it backwards. Its
>Berit who suspects that SOMETHING is wierd about the Danae/Aphrael
>thing, but he can't figure it out. Indeed, it is Khalad who, as you
>so eloquently put it. 'pop-poos' the idea.
Yes, I had the same thought when I read Brent's post, but I was too
lazy at the time to reply. :+)
I think it was more than just Berit suspecting _something_ was weird,
though. He notices something strange when he sees the reactions of
Sparhawk, Sephrenia, Vanion and Xanetia to Aphrael's conversation with
herself. But by the time he talks to Khalad about it, it looks like
he's pretty much figured out the truth, that Danae is Aphrael. Of
course, he doesn't know that he's right, but it was definitely more
than a vague hint he had about something strange.
MattJava
Aquarius wrote:
>
> Aphrael (aph...@microserve.net) spoo'd forth:
> : I think Aphrael is attracted to Talen because she sees someone clever
> : and manipulative and sneaky just like herself. She figures they'll
> : have an interesting life together.
>
> So why isn't she attracted to Platime?
> Can you imagine their relationship?
> Can you imagine Platime as *King*?
> *rotfl*
>
> Aq.
>
Since Aphrael is living a normal life now that she's with Elenes, I
guess the age gap was just a bit much with Stragen. Besides, since
Talen seems so youthful yet mature in some ways, and that's how Aphrael
likes to appear to people, it's a good match.
-MattJava (Finally, an Elenium post that I can respond to without
acknowledging... that other series!)
You like Eddings. He is your friend. He is good. He is God. You will
buy his books.
nill...@aol.com
>Well, as someone already mentioned, it was Berit who suspected that
>Danae was Aphrael and Khalad who poo-pooed the idea. I think part of
>the point of this was Eddings trying to show us that Khalad didn't
>know _everything_.
I dont know about that, Goddess. In the last instance where Berit and Khalad
are talking about this (relatively early on in THC), Berit keeps grilling Khalad
about the possibilities. Khalad has no problem agreeing to the possibility
that there might be multiple incarnations of Aphrael and that one of them
might be the Princess Danae. However, he acts completely bored with the
idea and dismisses it, not because he doesn't believe that its true, but
because he doesnt care in the slightest whether it is or not. Personally, I
think the scene portrays Khalad at about his snottiest and I thought it would
have been nice if Berit had whacked him one to bring him down off of his
high 'I don't want to discuss it because your thoughts are beneath my logic'
attitude. Grrrrrrr........ *whack!*
,
_ // Stat
|*|_________||------------------------------------------------------------------------------------,
|*|#########|| ----==== G O D O F T H E S W O R D ====---- /'
|*|~~~~~~~~||----------------------------------------------------------------------------------'
~ \
`
>> If you tied a piece of buttered bread to the back of a cat and dropped it
>> from a height, what would happen?
>> - Dave Barry
Aphrael
nill...@aol.com articulated thusly:
>I dont know about that, Goddess. In the last instance where Berit and Khalad
>are talking about this (relatively early on in THC), Berit keeps grilling Khalad
>about the possibilities. Khalad has no problem agreeing to the possibility
>that there might be multiple incarnations of Aphrael and that one of them
>might be the Princess Danae. However, he acts completely bored with the
>idea and dismisses it, not because he doesn't believe that its true, but
>because he doesnt care in the slightest whether it is or not. Personally, I
>think the scene portrays Khalad at about his snottiest and I thought it would
>have been nice if Berit had whacked him one to bring him down off of his
>high 'I don't want to discuss it because your thoughts are beneath my logic'
>attitude. Grrrrrrr........ *whack!*
Ok, quote time:
"She _could_ do it, Khalad," Berit insisted.
"I think you've beenout in the sun too long," Khalad replied.
<description of beach where they are riding> "It's a ridiculous idea,
my Lord."
"Try to keep an open mind, Khalad. Aphrael's a Goddess. She can do
_anything_."
"I'm sure she can, but why would she _want_ to?"
"Well--" Berit struggled with it. "She _could_ have a reason,
couldn't she? Something that you and I wouldn't even understand?"
"Is this what Styric training does to a man? You're starting to see
Gods under every bush. It was only a coincidence. The two of them
look a little bit alike, but that's all."
"You can be as skeptical as you want, Khalad,but I still think that
something very strange is going on."
"And _I_ think that what you're suggesting is an absurdity."
"Absurd or not, their mannerisms are the same, their expressions are
identical, and they've both got that same air of smug superiority
about them."
"Of course they do. Aphrael's a Goddess and Danae's a Crown Princess.
They _are_ superior-- at least in their own minds--and I think you're
overlooking the fact that we saw them in the same room and at the same
time. They even _talked_ to each other, for God's sake."
"Khalad, that doesn't mean anything. Aphrael's a Goddess. She can
probably be in a dozen different places all at the same time if she
really wants to be."
"That still brings us right back to the question of why? What would
be the purpose of it? Not even a God does things without any reason."
"We don't know that, Khalad. Maybe she's doing it just to amuse
herself."
"Are you really all that desperate to witness miracles, Berit?"
"She _could_ do it," Berit insisted.
"All right. So what?"
"Aren't you the least bit curious about it?"
"Not particularly." Khalad shrugged.
This scene sure looks to me like Khalad honestly believed Berit was
off his rocker for thinking Danae could be Aphrael, and that h just
agreed to the possibility that it could happen to shut Berit up. And
I agree that he was being a snot about the whole thing.
Aslade
aph...@microserve.net (Aphrael) wrote:
>This still doesn't help us figure out why Talen got a creepy feeling
>from that "monk" and earlier from the group of Styrics.
>Has anyone considered the possibility that it was just an ominous
>hunch and had nothing to do with magic? I know I've seen people who
>gave me the creeps and I couldn't explain why.
I also don't remember the instance where Khalad sensed something, but
I always thought Talen's reference to the monk and to the group of
Styrics was linked to the Seeker. Thus, he was sensing the evil, or
magic influenced by evil... that still doesn't explain why he wouldn't
have sensed it at other times, though.
Aslade
* * * * *
http://www4.linknet.net/datax/mcl.htm
Aphrael
ihu...@nildram.co.uk (Ian Hutcherson ) articulated thusly:
>Brent Williams <be...@kiva.net.no.spam> wrote:
>As (I think it was Aphrael) someone else stated, the ability to
>perform magic, is governed by the ability to think in stryic and offer
>up a prayer to whichever styric god (or Goddess) you wish to make a
>request from. But people using magic are detectable, at least it is
>detectable that someone in the room may be using magic. Sparhawk
>notices Annias(sp?) using magic in the throneroom near the begining of
>"The Diamond Throne". So there is obviously some sort of "Signature"
>to using Magic, as much as the sound created by using the "Will and
>the Word" in the Bel/Mal.
There also seems to be some sort of....I'll say "texture," for lack of
a better word, to a spell. The Elenium makes a big deal of mentioning
the spell caster "building" or "weaving" and "releasing" the spell.
At one point ISTR the text saying something to the effect of, "he
released the spell, letting it dribble from his fingers." We also see
how difficult it is to hold a spell in place rather than just
releasing it, as illustrated when Sparhawk and the other have to hold
the images of themselves in place at Baron Alstrom's castle. So it
seems to me that a spell has some sort of physical aspect to it.
Therefore, it seems natural that it woudl be "felt" when released.
>Maybe Sparhawk is a snesitive, and hence why he could feel the magic
>in the throneroom, or perhaps it's do to his experience in using magic
>that he is able to tell that something is not exactely on the level,
>in that someone is using magic. Sephrina is able to tell as well.
I got the impression that part of the reason Sparhawk felt it so
easily was that Annias was doing such a bad job. Rather like that
burglar Sparhawk hears on the roof at the beginning of TRK, he's
unsure of himself, so he's clunsy and doesn't conceal what he's doing
very well. This could also be likened to how clumsy Garion was when
he first discovered his sorcerous powers.
>We do know however that magic is making a request, in what is little
>more then a prayer, to a stryic god. and maybe the feeling of magic
>in the room is something to do with this god. (Thinking about the
>cloud being described somewhere in one of the books, as being the
>God/Bhellioms visiual "stink"). Once exposed to it, you know what it
>is. Bu that still wouldn't explain Talen's senstivity.
In TSR, when Sephrenia is sealing up the entrance to the Temple of
Azash so that no one can get in or out, Sparhawk is in the middle of
his duel with Martel. He unleashes a swift series of blows at Martel
at that point, so that Martel won't detect Sephrenia's slepp being
released. The reason given is that Sephrenia had been Martel's
teacher, so her aura would be familiar to him. We also see a hint of
this when Sparhawk first sees Ehlana sealed up in the diamond throne,
he touches the crystal and it says something to the effect of, "He
could feel Sephrenia's familiar aura."
>Also the only time this is mentioned for a non-magic user is the
>incidence with Talen, and the later on with Khaled. Too little
>evidence for us to draw real conclusions on, but strange how neither
>of them mentioned anything (and remmeber talen at the time did not
>know about being senstive, and maybe still doesn't) ith all the oter
>Magic during the books. I mean hang around on a quest with a bunch of
>church knights and the pandion istrcter in the secrets, and there's
>alot of agic flying around the place at times. And Talen, and then
>later Khaled, didn't (as far as I recall) feel anything?
Would someone please enlighten me as to when we see Khalad have a
particular sensitivity to magic? I can't remember this scene.
Ok, so we have a few instances in which we know that magic can be
"felt":
1) If the person using the magic is clumsy about it
2) If the person "feeling" the magic and the person using the magic
are well-known to each other, especially if they have used magic
together before.
This still doesn't help us figure out why Talen got a creepy feeling
from that "monk" and earlier from the group of Styrics.
Has anyone considered the possibility that it was just an ominous
hunch and had nothing to do with magic? I know I've seen people who
gave me the creeps and I couldn't explain why.
------------------
nill...@aol.com
>Would someone please enlighten me as to when we see Khalad have a
>particular sensitivity to magic? I can't remember this scene.
>
>
This is from Chapter 4 of The Hidden City:
It came without warning: a cold, prickling kind of sensation that
seemed to be centered at the back of Berit's neck. "That's good
enough," he said in a louder voice. "I'm not getting paid enough to
scrub holes in tin plates." He rinsed off the dish he'd been washing,
shook most of the water off it, and stowed it back into the pack.
"You felt it, too?" Khalad's whisper came out from between motion-
less lips. That startled Berit. How could Khalad have known?
... small snip here. Continuing near the bottom of the page ...
"Good thinking," Berit approved. He reached out again, very cau-
tiously. "He's moving away," he muttered. "How did you know we were
being watched?"
"I could feel it." Khalad shrugged. "I always know when somebody's
watching me." etc etc
Anyway, thats the scene. Make of it what you will 8^)
Ian Hutcherson
On 4 Mar 1997 14:30:39 GMT, nill...@aol.com wrote:
>In article <5ffo36$amq$1...@news3.microserve.net>, aph...@microserve.net (Aphrael) writes:
>
>>Would someone please enlighten me as to when we see Khalad have a
>>particular sensitivity to magic? I can't remember this scene.
<First part of quote snipped>
> "Good thinking," Berit approved. He reached out again, very cau-
>tiously. "He's moving away," he muttered. "How did you know we were
>being watched?"
> "I could feel it." Khalad shrugged. "I always know when somebody's
>watching me." etc etc
The watcher was a stryic, but I always have a pretty good idea if
someone is watching me (it's called paranoia). There's no magic
involved in that, why should it be considered the same here?
Ian
(the paranoid)
Rumor
A sound was heard, drifting upon the winds, that nestled in my furred,
sounds, and what I perceived of them was thus:
>> "Good thinking," Berit approved. He reached out again, very cau-
>>tiously. "He's moving away," he muttered. "How did you know we were
>>being watched?"
>> "I could feel it." Khalad shrugged. "I always know when somebody's
>>watching me." etc etc
>The watcher was a stryic, but I always have a pretty good idea if
>someone is watching me (it's called paranoia). There's no magic
>involved in that, why should it be considered the same here?
Sparhawk, like Khalad, admits to having the same ability when he saves
Sephrenia from an arrow in the back (waay back in tDT, I believe). We
never really learn if this ability to sense a watcher is connected to
magic or not.
Talen, on the other hand, is described as a "sensitive." This can
logically be concluded to mean "sensitive to magic," as he can feel
styric magicians.
I fleshed this out once before, but I believe that in a world were
magic is a very real possibility, unlike ours, there likely exists a
talent along a sort of continuum that people are born with or grow up
being adept at, much like any ability.
So, some people are just highly sensitive to magic, and could
therefore be potential adepts at using magic. This obviously applies
to Talen (if he ever bothers to work hard at it).
Khalad, though, doesn't seem to have this. I think you're right, Ian,
in that it is (mostly) unrelated to magic. We can't say for sure, of
course, but there's no reason to believe that Khalad is at all gifted
at magic. Sparhawk comments that his abilitty is likely from being
"overtrained." If that is true (with Sparhawk, who can say _what_ is
going on...), then Khalad would be the next in line for such an
ability; he's obviously been trained as much as his father, who was a
master at close combat and knew at least as much as Sparhawk.
-- Rumor
>Ian
>(the paranoid)
Aphrael
sa...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Rumor) articulated thusly:
> Sparhawk, like Khalad, admits to having the same ability when he saves
>Sephrenia from an arrow in the back (waay back in tDT, I believe). We
>never really learn if this ability to sense a watcher is connected to
>magic or not.
> Talen, on the other hand, is described as a "sensitive." This can
>logically be concluded to mean "sensitive to magic," as he can feel
>styric magicians.
Where exactly do we see him described as a sensitive? I think I may
recall something from when he mentions the "monk" he saw following
Sparhawk, but I'm not sure and I don't have my copy of TDT handy.
> I fleshed this out once before, but I believe that in a world were
>magic is a very real possibility, unlike ours, there likely exists a
>talent along a sort of continuum that people are born with or grow up
>being adept at, much like any ability.
> So, some people are just highly sensitive to magic, and could
>therefore be potential adepts at using magic. This obviously applies
>to Talen (if he ever bothers to work hard at it).
This makes sense. Just like in this world we have some people who
have a natural ear for music or a photographic memory or the like.
> Khalad, though, doesn't seem to have this. I think you're right, Ian,
>in that it is (mostly) unrelated to magic. We can't say for sure, of
>course, but there's no reason to believe that Khalad is at all gifted
>at magic. Sparhawk comments that his abilitty is likely from being
>"overtrained." If that is true (with Sparhawk, who can say _what_ is
>going on...), then Khalad would be the next in line for such an
>ability; he's obviously been trained as much as his father, who was a
>master at close combat and knew at least as much as Sparhawk.
Well, Eddings also touches on the idea of intuition a few times, and I
think the ability to sense a watcher is a form of intuition,
especially prevalent in trained soldiers. There are people in our
world, too, who can feel when someone is watching them, non? Khalad
never seems to show the slightest interest in or affinity for magic,
except for that one scene when he asks Berit about it. In fact, I
sort of thought that Eddings was simply giving Khalad another chance
to be snotty in the scene where they both sense the Styric watcher.
Berit and Khalad both sense the watcher, but for two different
reasons. Berit feels the watcher's spell, but Khalad simply senses
that he's being watched. When Berit asks Khalad how he knew, Khalad's
reaction is something like, "Who the heck needs magic, I just use good
old common sense and it gets me by just fine."
Aph
Rumor
A sound was heard, drifting upon the winds, that nestled in my furred,
and what I perceived of them was thus:
>Where exactly do we see him described as a sensitive? I think I may
>recall something from when he mentions the "monk" he saw following
>Sparhawk, but I'm not sure and I don't have my copy of TDT handy.
Sparhawk specifically says that "some people are sensitives" when
thinking about Talen. It's right when Talen mentions that he got that
chill.
>> So, some people are just highly sensitive to magic, and could
>>therefore be potential adepts at using magic. This obviously applies
>>to Talen (if he ever bothers to work hard at it).
>This makes sense. Just like in this world we have some people who
>have a natural ear for music or a photographic memory or the like.
Exactly. A billion analogies could be made...
>>Sparhawk comments that his abilitty is likely from being
>>"overtrained." If that is true (with Sparhawk, who can say _what_ is
>>going on...), then Khalad would be the next in line for such an
>>ability; he's obviously been trained as much as his father, who was a
>>master at close combat and knew at least as much as Sparhawk.
>Well, Eddings also touches on the idea of intuition a few times, and I
>think the ability to sense a watcher is a form of intuition,
>especially prevalent in trained soldiers. There are people in our
>world, too, who can feel when someone is watching them, non?
So they say... but how real is that ability, really? Is it just
paranoia? Who can say?
>Khalad
>never seems to show the slightest interest in or affinity for magic,
>except for that one scene when he asks Berit about it. In fact, I
>sort of thought that Eddings was simply giving Khalad another chance
>to be snotty in the scene where they both sense the Styric watcher.
>Berit and Khalad both sense the watcher, but for two different
>reasons. Berit feels the watcher's spell, but Khalad simply senses
>that he's being watched. When Berit asks Khalad how he knew, Khalad's
>reaction is something like, "Who the heck needs magic, I just use good
>old common sense and it gets me by just fine."
Honestly, I thought Khalad was actually jealous of Berit (although he
woull never show it - he does have an ironically "noble" pride for his
own class). Remeber on that log boom when he asks Berit, "Is using
magic hard?" He's the one who brings it up, so even though he may
_act_ like he doesn't care, I think it bothers him that there are
adepts at something useful, and he isn't one of them. He was being
honest when he said that he just feels people watching him - again,I
think it's training, just like Sparhawk - but I think he was carefully
hiding the fact that Berit could sense him too, and in a different way
that Khalad knew nothing about.
Khalad _expects_ to be better than the knights at everything; it's
just him. But when he can't even grasp magic... I think it really does
bother him.
Of course, I'm being sympathetic for him, but I know you, Aph, and
you're going to use this as another reason to shoot Khalad down... I
just know it. =^)
-- Rumor
(the introspective wolf)
Aphrael
sa...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Rumor) articulated thusly:
> Sparhawk specifically says that "some people are sensitives" when
>thinking about Talen. It's right when Talen mentions that he got that
>chill.
Ah, I thought it might be something like that. I was just too lazy to
look it up. ;+)
>>Well, Eddings also touches on the idea of intuition a few times, and I
>>think the ability to sense a watcher is a form of intuition,
>>especially prevalent in trained soldiers. There are people in our
>>world, too, who can feel when someone is watching them, non?
> So they say... but how real is that ability, really? Is it just
>paranoia? Who can say?
Well, some people swear by it. Personally, I don't have good
intuition at all, with the exception of occasionally predicting when
I'm going to hear Céline on the radio. ;+)
> Honestly, I thought Khalad was actually jealous of Berit (although he
>woull never show it - he does have an ironically "noble" pride for his
>own class). Remeber on that log boom when he asks Berit, "Is using
>magic hard?" He's the one who brings it up, so even though he may
>_act_ like he doesn't care, I think it bothers him that there are
>adepts at something useful, and he isn't one of them.
I agree. He's so used to being better at things than the knights, and
this would be a massive blow to his ego. Unlike with Kurik, who never
gave us any indication that he cared. But naturally Khalad would be
too proud to admit that there was something he wanted to be able to do
that he couldn't, so he covered it up with the "Who needs magic?"
attitude -- except for that one time he let it slip to Berit on the
log boom.
>He was being
>honest when he said that he just feels people watching him - again,I
>think it's training, just like Sparhawk - but I think he was carefully
>hiding the fact that Berit could sense him too, and in a different way
>that Khalad knew nothing about.
True. Acting like Berit _should_ sense the Styric watching them
simply because anything with more intelligence than a jellyfish should
have sensed it helps him to avoid admitting that Berit can do
something he can't do.
> Khalad _expects_ to be better than the knights at everything; it's
>just him. But when he can't even grasp magic... I think it really does
>bother him.
Yep, I think I pointed out as much above.
> Of course, I'm being sympathetic for him, but I know you, Aph, and
>you're going to use this as another reason to shoot Khalad down... I
>just know it. =^)
Well, he's no worse than your average egotistical male. <evil grin>
Seriously, though, AFAIC, the series just wouldn't be complete without
at least one good guy who irritated the hell out of me.
Frankly, I don't feel any sympathy for a guy who is better than his
peers at everything else, because of _one_ thing that he's not good
at. In fact, I was happy to see that Khalad wasn't good at
everything. It's the only thing that makes his character tolerable.
I mean, am I the only one here who is irritated by people who are good
at everything???
Aph
Please note that my e-mail address has been modified to prevent spam.
To reply by e-mail, change "antispam" to "microserve."
------------------
Aphrael
aph...@microserve.net
Co-Founder and Spokes-Goddess, ACETS
"Conservatives wouldn't even change their underwear if they didn't have to."
--Aphrael, "The Shining Ones"
Félicitationes à Céline -- Falling Into You, 1996 Album of the Year!