Who's the Most Powerful?? The Most Skilled?
Jeff McClean
Hello all,
I don't know if other people think about these things, but I always like
to know who stands where in terms of power and skill with "sorcery."
So, I'd like everyone to rank the various sorcerers/esses found
throughout the world of Garion. I think there are two different
rankings....power, and skill. (And Garion doesn't get to use the Orb to
cheat). It's actually pretty arbitrary, but I think it's still
interesting to see what people think.
POWER...
1. Belgarion
2. Belgarath
3. Zandramas
3. Beldin
4. Polgara
5. Ctuchik
6. Zedar
7. Poledra
8. Beltira & Belkira
9. Urvon
10. Durnik
11. Asharak
SKILL
1. Belgarath
2. Poledra
3. Ctuchik
3. Polgara
4. Zandramas
5. Beldin
6. Zedar
7. Beltira & Belkira
8. Urvon
9. Belgarion
10. Asharak
11. Durnik
(Well, that's my idea....I'm sure no one in the whole world completely
agrees with me, and I'm sure few come anywhere near to agreeing, but
that's what's so fun.....)
The Seer of Kell
Derek Hiemforth
Jeff McClean wrote:
>
> I don't know if other people think about these things, but I always
> like to know who stands where in terms of power and skill with
> "sorcery." So, I'd like everyone to rank the various sorcerers/esses
> found throughout the world of Garion.
Jeff's list is not too far from how I'd rank 'em. Just for grins,
here's how I see it:
POWER:
1. Belgarion
2. Belgarath
3. Zandramas
4. Zedar
5. Beldin
6. Polgara
7. Ctuchik
8. Poledra
9. Urvon
10. Durnik
11. Beltira & Belkira
12. Asharak/Chamdar
SKILL:
1. Belgarath
2. Polgara
3. Poledra
4. Zandramas
5. Zedar
6. Beldin
7. Ctuchik
8. Beltira & Belkira
9. Urvon
10. Asharak/Chamdar
11. Belgarion
12. Durnik
Derek Hiemforth
der...@cisco.com
Teut
I'm not sure why, but Derek Hiemforth <der...@cisco.com> posted this on
Fri, 21 Nov 1997, and called it " Who's the Most Powerful?? The Most
Skilled? " as well:
>SKILL:
>
>1. Belgarath
>2. Polgara
>3. Poledra
I have to say I'd re-arrange these three. To the opposite, in fact...
1 Poledra
2 Polgara
3 Belgarath
I'm still not sure about Poledra and Polgara, though, since we're not
really given any idea about Poledras' skill, except for a few bits in
PtS
Teut
Belgarion
>
> Jeff McClean wrote:
> >
> > I don't know if other people think about these things, but I always
> > like to know who stands where in terms of power and skill with
> > "sorcery." So, I'd like everyone to rank the various sorcerers/esses
> > found throughout the world of Garion.
>
> Jeff's list is not too far from how I'd rank 'em. Just for grins,
> here's how I see it:
Hrmm, I'd actually put this in a different order...
>
> POWER:
>
> 1. Belgarion Belgarath
> 2. Belgarath Poledra
> 3. Zandramas Polgara
> 4. Zedar Beldin
> 5. Beldin Belkira/Beltira
> 6. Polgara Belgarion <-> Zandramas <-> Ctuchik
> 7. Ctuchik Urvon
> 8. Poledra Durnik
> 9. Urvon Chamadar
> 10. Durnik
> 11. Beltira & Belkira
> 12. Asharak/Chamdar
>
> SKILL:
>
> 1. Belgarath I think I can't argue with this part :)
> 2. Polgara
> 3. Poledra
> 4. Zandramas
> 5. Zedar
> 6. Beldin
> 7. Ctuchik
> 8. Beltira & Belkira
> 9. Urvon
> 10. Asharak/Chamdar
> 11. Belgarion
> 12. Durnik
Belgarion
Ex-Child of Light
(nrug...@metz.une.edu.au)
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| // CelBelgarion \\ |
| O===||==============> The High Priest Of Belinda <==============||===O |
| \\ From The Divine Houses Of Belinda And Celine // |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Beldaran
Derek Hiemforth wrote:
> SKILL:
>
> 1. Belgarath
> 2. Polgara
> 3. Poledra
> 4. Zandramas
> 5. Zedar
> 6. Beldin
> 7. Ctuchik
> 8. Beltira & Belkira
> 9. Urvon
> 10. Asharak/Chamdar
> 11. Belgarion
> 12. Durnik
Actually, your list comes very close to mine. I think its a toss-up,
however, between Belgaratha and Polgara in terms of skill, since my
father mentions from time to time how there are some things he's better
at, and some things that Pol's better at. I think in terms of power,
though, he has Pol beat (sorry, Pol--no deprecation intended. That's
just how I see things). ;)
Beldaran
To reply via e-mail, change "beldaran" to "kenyon1" and say goodbye to
the Citadel and Riva.
Andrew Shore (Jaycey)
On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, Teut wrote:
> I'm not sure why, but Derek Hiemforth <der...@cisco.com> posted this on
> Fri, 21 Nov 1997, and called it " Who's the Most Powerful?? The Most
> Skilled? " as well:
> >SKILL:
> >
> >1. Belgarath
> >2. Polgara
> >3. Poledra
>
> I have to say I'd re-arrange these three. To the opposite, in fact...
As far as I can remember, the most technically difficult sorcery ever
conducted in the books was the granting of speech to the fenlings, when
'Grat called up Aldur and had a lengthy chat about how and why he should
be doing it... I could be missing something obvious here, but it's
certainly what impressed me most, and I can't see Polgara being ready to
take on the task...
Just an opinion... :)
Jaycey... {:->
Mandorallen
On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Jeff McClean wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I don't know if other people think about these things, but I always like
> to know who stands where in terms of power and skill with "sorcery."
> So, I'd like everyone to rank the various sorcerers/esses found
> throughout the world of Garion. I think there are two different
> rankings....power, and skill. (And Garion doesn't get to use the Orb to
> cheat). It's actually pretty arbitrary, but I think it's still
> interesting to see what people think.
>
> POWER...
> 1. Belgarion
> 2. Belgarath
> 3. Zandramas
> 3. Beldin
> 4. Polgara
> 5. Ctuchik
> 6. Zedar
> 7. Poledra
> 8. Beltira & Belkira
> 9. Urvon
> 10. Durnik
> 11. Asharak
Sounds about right, although I'd probably put Ctuchik below both Poledra
and Zedar, and I'd probably drop Zandramas in just behind Poledra.
>
> SKILL
> 1. Belgarath
> 2. Poledra
> 3. Ctuchik
> 3. Polgara
> 4. Zandramas
> 5. Beldin
> 6. Zedar
> 7. Beltira & Belkira
> 8. Urvon
> 9. Belgarion
> 10. Asharak
> 11. Durnik
>
Although Belgarath is fairly skillful, it is clear that Polgara has more
skill than him, and I don't really think that Ctuchik was that skillful
either, but that might just be because I always think of him as
ablathering idiot.
> (Well, that's my idea....I'm sure no one in the whole world completely
> agrees with me, and I'm sure few come anywhere near to agreeing, but
> that's what's so fun.....)
>
> The Seer of Kell
>
Mandorallen, Baron of Vo Mandor
Eric Strong
Derek Hiemforth wrote in message <34767D3C...@cisco.com>...
>POWER:
>
>1. Belgarion
>2. Belgarath
>3. Zandramas
>4. Zedar
>5. Beldin
>6. Polgara
>7. Ctuchik
>8. Poledra
>9. Urvon
>10. Durnik
>11. Beltira & Belkira
>12. Asharak/Chamdar
>SKILL:
>
>1. Belgarath
>2. Polgara
>3. Poledra
>4. Zandramas
>5. Zedar
>6. Beldin
>7. Ctuchik
>8. Beltira & Belkira
>9. Urvon
>10. Asharak/Chamdar
>11. Belgarion
>12. Durnik
I think they would be ranked as follows
Power:
1. Current CoL and CoD if they are sorcerers
2. The Seer or Seeress charged with making the "Choice" at the Events
* They have all the power of the Dals behind them.
3. Past CoLs:
Belgarion
4. Belgarath
5. Poldera
6. Polgara
7. Beldin
8. Ctuchik
9. Zedar
10. Beltira & Belkira
12. Urvon
13. Chamdar
Skill:
1. The Dals collectively
2. Belgarath, Poldera, & Polgara
*each is better than the others in certain areas but about equal as a
whole
5. Beldin
6. Zandramas
7. Ctuchik
8. Beltira & Belkira
10. Zedar
11. Chamdar
12. Belgarion
13. Durnik
Eric Strong
-delurking
to respond by email send to ems 31 at cornell dot edu
Yarblek
Interesting question.
My rankings are a little bit different...
POWER...
1. Belgarion
2. Belgarath
3. Zandramas
4. Zedar
5. Beldin
6. Ctuchik
7. Polgara
8. Poledra
9. Beltira, Belkira and Urvon
10. Durnik
11. Asharak
SKILL...
1. Polgara
2. Poledra, Belgarath, Beldin, Zandramas
3. Ctuchik
4. Beltira, Belkira
5. Zedar
6. Urvon
7. Asharak
8. Belgarion
9. Durnik
At the end of the Mal, Belgarion is perhaps more skilled than Asharak.
Yarblek
---
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
dancline
Andrew Shore (Jaycey) wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, Teut wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure why, but Derek Hiemforth <der...@cisco.com> posted this
> on
> > Fri, 21 Nov 1997, and called it " Who's the Most Powerful?? The
> Most
> > Skilled? " as well:
> > >SKILL:
> > >
> > >1. Belgarath
> > >2. Polgara
> > >3. Poledra
> >
> > I have to say I'd re-arrange these three. To the opposite, in
> fact...
>
> As far as I can remember, the most technically difficult sorcery
> ever
> conducted in the books was the granting of speech to the fenlings,
> when
> 'Grat called up Aldur and had a lengthy chat about how and why he
> should
> be doing it... I could be missing something obvious here, but it's
> certainly what impressed me most, and I can't see Polgara being ready
> to
> take on the task...
>
> Just an opinion... :)
>
> Jaycey... {:->
I have to agree, ( that Belgarath is the most powerful). But then I
also have to disagree because there are things that Pol can do that
'garath would never try. They are all strong, cept poledra cause she
taught Polgara all she knows, however she almost never uses
her abilities.
Renashia
I don't think you can say who is the most powerful. Everyone has specific
abilities for the different tasks they had to perform.
But if you want to get technical. Polgara mentioned in the Belgariad that
Garion had the most raw power of any of those who use the Will and the
Word.
Rena
On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, Teut wrote:
> I'm not sure why, but Derek Hiemforth <der...@cisco.com> posted this on
> Fri, 21 Nov 1997, and called it " Who's the Most Powerful?? The Most
> Skilled? " as well:
> >SKILL:
> >
> >1. Belgarath
> >2. Polgara
> >3. Poledra
>
> I have to say I'd re-arrange these three. To the opposite, in fact...
>
Teut
I'm not sure why, but "Andrew Shore (Jaycey)" <ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
posted this on Mon, 24 Nov 1997, and called it " Who's the Most
Powerful?? The Most Skilled? " as well:
>conducted in the books was the granting of speech to the fenlings, when
>'Grat called up Aldur and had a lengthy chat about how and why he should
>be doing it... I could be missing something obvious here, but it's
>certainly what impressed me most, and I can't see Polgara being ready to
>take on the task...
Well, he *did* have Aldurs help for that one. 'Afore I go on, some PtS
Spoiler space...
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:
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That should be enough :-)
In PtS, Polgara is seen doing a lot of mind playing (such as learning
the Drasnian Secret Language by picking it out of someones head)
something that Belgarath stands back and lets Pol do when the occasion
arrives. I don't think you can really order these two in terms of skill
since they can both obviously do different things. Although I would have
thought, myself, that Polgara would have been a *better* choice to
perform that sorcery on the Fenlings...
Teut
Teut
I'm not sure why, but dancline <danc...@sparc1.castles.com> posted this
on Tue, 25 Nov 1997, and called it " Who's the Most Powerful?? The Most
Skilled? " as well:
> They are all strong, cept poledra cause she
>taught Polgara all she knows, however she almost never uses
>her abilities.
Just 'cos she doesn't use her powers very often doesn't mean she's not
strong. I've got her down as pretty powerful, myself. She took on
Zandramas, after all.
Teut
Andrew Shore (Jaycey)
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Mandorallen wrote:
> Although Belgarath is fairly skillful, it is clear that Polgara has more
> skill than him, and I don't really think that Ctuchik was that skillful
> either, but that might just be because I always think of him as
> ablathering idiot.
>
> Mandorallen, Baron of Vo Mandor
>
It has to be said that it *isn't* clear that Polgara is more skillful;
there wouldn't be a debate otherwise. As I said earlier, I'd put 'Grat
first simply because of the fenlings incident, and while there are things
that Polgara does better (horrible images, apparently), I always got the
impression that she was deferring to him most of the time.
If Ctuchik was less skilled (certainly implied by the way he died),
then he must have been nearly as powerful... otherwise he'd never have
given Belgarath such a difficult fight. If I've missed something simple
here, feel free to correct me... :)
Jaycey... {:->
Ce'Nedra
In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.971125235324.23456K-100000@richtea>, "Andrew
Shore (Jaycey)" <ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk> inscribed:
>On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Mandorallen wrote:
>
>> Although Belgarath is fairly skillful, it is clear that Polgara has more
>> skill than him, and I don't really think that Ctuchik was that skillful
>> either, but that might just be because I always think of him as
>> ablathering idiot.
>>
>> Mandorallen, Baron of Vo Mandor
>>
>
> It has to be said that it *isn't* clear that Polgara is more skillful;
>there wouldn't be a debate otherwise. As I said earlier, I'd put 'Grat
>first simply because of the fenlings incident, and while there are things
>that Polgara does better (horrible images, apparently), I always got the
>impression that she was deferring to him most of the time.
1) He *is* her father, and though she acts like she has no respect for
him, we learn that she does really. (see various scenes in her teen
years in PtS)
2) She's half-wolf, he's her pack leader. 'nuff said? :)
3) He's moer powerful than her (probably because he's Aldur's first
disciple, that seems to make him the most powerful, if not the
brightest!)
To summarise,I'd agree that Polgara is more skilled than Belgarath.
(see examples given in various other posts!)
--
Ce'Nedra - Queen of the World
"He turned his head and saw his little queen,
dagger in hand, and eyes ablaze with hatred"
(No spamblockers in my header. Action will be gleefully taken against)
(anyone sending spam to me, or to any of my subscribed newsgroups.)
LadyQ1
One of my warriors came running into the palace to relay a message she heard
from Rena, carried to her in the wind to her accompanied by the sound of a
shepherd's flute:
>But if you want to get technical. Polgara mentioned in the Belgariad that
>Garion had the most raw power of any of those who use the Will and the
>Word.
Actually, I remember an example of this too. Whe Garion brought Horse back to
life after he was born in the cave. They kept telling him to stop when they
started, because most sorcerers/esses are destroyed by their own will when they
attempt something like that, but he managed to get through it, while they
wouldn't have been able to. Just an example of Garion having alot of power.
-Betuana
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To reach me, send mail to Bet...@bigfoot.com
(or if you would like a quicker response, send it to Lad...@AOL.com)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Jenz Kjellberg
Another example is the whining that Belgarath allways do about how hard it
is to manipulate weather, but Garion suumond storms and thunder without
even having to catch his breath in his attempt to stop a civilwar in
Mallorea, if you remember...
Jezze
--
Jenz Kjellberg, je...@hem.passagen.se
LadyQ1 <lad...@aol.com> skrev i inlägg
<19971127044...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Dom Wynn
Jenz Kjellberg wrote:
> Another example is the whining that Belgarath allways do about how hard it
> is to manipulate weather, but Garion suumond storms and thunder without
> even having to catch his breath in his attempt to stop a civilwar in
> Mallorea, if you remember...
>
> Jezze
>
I think Belgarath's whining was todo with the strain of preventing
environmental disaster rather than the problems associated with whipping
up a quick summerstorm -
I got the impression that the power involved with weather use was
negligible, as long as the weather was around in the first place,...the
problems arise when
1) you try to conjure up non-existent weather from nowhere (Pol's
attempt to move air, when there was no wind in the region)
2) you take existing weather and force it to do things it wasn't
supposed to do - like the thuderstorm in Arendia which totally disrupted
the weather patterns in the continent - an unusual El Nino as it were...
Dom
Yarblek
On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Andrew Shore (Jaycey) wrote:
> It has to be said that it *isn't* clear that Polgara is more skillful;
> there wouldn't be a debate otherwise. As I said earlier, I'd put 'Grat
> first simply because of the fenlings incident, and while there are things
> that Polgara does better (horrible images, apparently), I always got the
> impression that she was deferring to him most of the time.
I think Belgarath was always working more with power and not with skill.
He seems to me just a little bit too lazy to practice very much to get
really skillful.
Of course he has skill (more than most of the others), but I still feel
that Polgara is better than he (she takes those things more serious).
I hope you get my point. This explanation sounds a little bit strange,
but I don't know how to do it better.
Yarblek
---
Reality is for people who can't handle drugs.
Aquarius
Jenz Kjellberg <je...@hem.passagen.se> wrote:
> Another example is the whining that Belgarath allways do about how hard it
> is to manipulate weather, but Garion suumond storms and thunder without
> even having to catch his breath in his attempt to stop a civilwar in
> Mallorea, if you remember...
Oooh, I think Belgarath complained about weather because of the
environmental catastrophes it sparks off if you make snow fall in the
tropics, not because it's particularly difficult...
Aq.
Zeshan
Andrew Shore (Jaycey) <ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk> wrote in article
<Pine.SOL.3.95.971124050557.28084F-100000@bourbon>...
> As far as I can remember, the most technically difficult sorcery ever
> conducted in the books was the granting of speech to the fenlings, when
> 'Grat called up Aldur and had a lengthy chat about how and why he
should
> be doing it... I could be missing something obvious here, but it's
> certainly what impressed me most, and I can't see Polgara being ready
to
> take on the task...
Hmm, never thought about it that way, but you're probably right...
Zeshan
(Who was planning to stay out of this thread, remembering how the last
one didn't seem to get anywhere...)
Zubrette
Jezze stopped by my haybarn and wrote:
> Another example is the whining that Belgarath allways do about how hard it
> is to manipulate weather, but Garion suumond storms and thunder without
> even having to catch his breath in his attempt to stop a civilwar in
> Mallorea, if you remember...
Maybe Belgarath was talking about summoning the weather without causing
subsequent problems?
IIRC Garion's thunder storm almost caused an ice age in Drasnia!
--
Zubrette
Some men are wise some otherwise
Zeshan
Dom Wynn <domini...@conted.ox.ac.uk> wrote in article
<347D94...@conted.ox.ac.uk>...
> I got the impression that the power involved with weather use was
> negligible, as long as the weather was around in the first place,...the
> problems arise when
>
> 1) you try to conjure up non-existent weather from nowhere (Pol's
> attempt to move air, when there was no wind in the region)
Has anyone here actually tried to think about how they would go about
moving still air ?
Go on, try it...
Okay, stop now, see why Pol collapsed...
Zeshan
Paul Freeman
A post rose in the newsgroup alt.fan.eddings. The post was not The
Post from Mandorallen <as7...@bristol.ac.uk>, but it was a post from
Mandorallen <as7...@bristol.ac.uk>:
<snip>
>Sounds about right, although I'd probably put Ctuchik below both Poledra
>and Zedar, and I'd probably drop Zandramas in just behind Poledra.
.....with a flat back four and two overlapping wingers (prolly the
Twins). My midfield dynamo, David Batty style, would be of course,
Beldin :)
Paul
Sorry for slipping into football[1] mode but that turn of phrase was
very much a managers way of describing his team, very much so,
mountain to climb, over the moon.....
[1] This is the _real_ name for what Americans call Soccer
--
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Cho-Hag
Zeshan wrote:
>
> Has anyone here actually tried to think about how they would go about
> moving still air ?
>
> Go on, try it...
Well.
> Okay, stop now, see why Pol collapsed...
>
> Zeshan
____________________
| ########## | - Cho-Hag
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|_____##########_____| Thank You! :)
Draco Paladin
On 29 Nov 1997, Zeshan wrote:
>
> Has anyone here actually tried to think about how they would go about
> moving still air ?
>
> Go on, try it...
>
> Okay, stop now, see why Pol collapsed...
I actually have thought about this. The way I have come up with is to
telekinetically grab each individual air molecule and give them a 'push'
in the right direction.
Actually this is an extension of something I read in _The Mutant
Cronicals_. I forget the author right now (my books are over 2000 kms
away right now) but it is an excellent series. In the first book the main
character was a telekenetic and was able to melt metal by telekenetically
agitating the molecules of the metal. Moving air would be about the same
thing.
---------------------------------------------
Mother is the name for GOD on the lips and
hearts of all children. - Eric Draven
spruce
Draco Paladin <pal...@uvic.ca> wrote in article
<Pine.A41.3.96.971129...@uvaix2e1.comp.UVic.CA>...
> On 29 Nov 1997, Zeshan wrote:
>
> >
> > Has anyone here actually tried to think about how they would go about
> > moving still air ?
> >
> > Go on, try it...
> >
> > Okay, stop now, see why Pol collapsed...
>
> I actually have thought about this. The way I have come up with is to
> telekinetically grab each individual air molecule and give them a 'push'
> in the right direction.
but think how much eneryg youd need to use
1mole of oxygen (32grams) is 6*10~23 molecules
even puting 1 joule of energy in to one mole youd be useing a hell of alot
of energy up
anyway i think using thew&w is easyier when you dont understand what youre
doing
maybe thats why garion is so good at it
> love spruce
'welcome to the cheap seats'
Greldik
Whilst kicking a rotten cabbage about the fore deck, I heard Paul
Freeman say:
>>Sounds about right, although I'd probably put Ctuchik below both Poledra
>>and Zedar, and I'd probably drop Zandramas in just behind Poledra.
>
>.....with a flat back four and two overlapping wingers (prolly the
>Twins). My midfield dynamo, David Batty style, would be of course,
>Beldin :)
>
>Paul
>
>Sorry for slipping into football[1] mode but that turn of phrase was
>very much a managers way of describing his team, very much so,
>mountain to climb, over the moon.....
>
>[1] This is the _real_ name for what Americans call Soccer
As every sane manager knows of course, as well as the midfield steel of
Beldin, you also need a centre of the park creator supreme, such as
Eriond. However, of utmost importance is the big man at the back stick
to rise like a salmon and stick it in the onion bag - someone like
Mordja perhaps - although he might take comments from the odd heckler in
the crowd the wrong way.
Greldik (mightly resisting the all time XI thread!)
--
To get to sealand road, remove the DEVA first
Andy Purkiss
Andrew Shore (Jaycey) wrote:
<SNIP>
> If Ctuchik was less skilled (certainly implied by the way he died),
> then he must have been nearly as powerful... otherwise he'd never have
> given Belgarath such a difficult fight. If I've missed something simple
> here, feel free to correct me... :)
>
> Jaycey... {:->
But surely Ctuchick died because he made a mistake in trying to destroy
the Orb, not because he was any less skilled than Belgarath
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and
he's warm the rest of his life." - Jingo (by Terry Pratchett)
Andy Purkiss Crystallography Dept., Birkbeck College
E-mail a.pu...@mail.cryst.bbk.ac.uk
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Stoner
On 29 Nov 1997 09:18:06 GMT, "Zeshan" <zeshan...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
*
*
*Dom Wynn <domini...@conted.ox.ac.uk> wrote in article
*<347D94...@conted.ox.ac.uk>...
*> I got the impression that the power involved with weather use was
*> negligible, as long as the weather was around in the first
*> place,...the problems arise when
*>
*> 1) you try to conjure up non-existent weather from nowhere (Pol's
*> attempt to move air, when there was no wind in the region)
*
*Has anyone here actually tried to think about how they would go about
*moving still air ?
*
*Go on, try it...
*
*Okay, stop now, see why Pol collapsed...
I think I have a fairly simple way of doing it. Requires power, but
totally doable. Lift up on the air within the region you want to
create a wind into. This would create a low pressure area, which wind
would flow into. This requires an enormous amount of power, but the
examples within the text indicate that its easily within Pol's power
to do it that way.
"That cow's tasted human blood!" - The Tick #8
To actually reach me via email, remove
Quest.Rulez from my address
Andrew Shore (Jaycey)
On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Andy Purkiss wrote:
> Andrew Shore (Jaycey) wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > If Ctuchik was less skilled (certainly implied by the way he died),
> > then he must have been nearly as powerful... otherwise he'd never have
> > given Belgarath such a difficult fight. If I've missed something simple
> > here, feel free to correct me... :)
> >
> > Jaycey... {:->
>
> But surely Ctuchick died because he made a mistake in trying to destroy
> the Orb, not because he was any less skilled than Belgarath
Yes and no. I can't see Belgarath making that kind of mistake no matter
what; it implies a lack of control/skill in what you're doing. Even if
you're terrified of what's happening, why try something that's not going
to work?
The point was that *if* he'd been much less skilled and much less
powerful than 'Grat, why was the Beloved of Aldur so exhausted after
fighting him?
Everyone had been putting Ctuchik low on both lists...
Jaycey... {:->
Cho-Hag
Andrew Stoner wrote:
> On 29 Nov 1997 09:18:06 GMT, "Zeshan" <zeshan...@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
> *Has anyone here actually tried to think about how they would go about
> *moving still air ?
> *Okay, stop now, see why Pol collapsed...
> I think I have a fairly simple way of doing it. Requires power, but
> totally doable. Lift up on the air within the region you want to
> create a wind into. This would create a low pressure area, which wind
> would flow into. This requires an enormous amount of power, but the
> examples within the text indicate that its easily within Pol's power
> to do it that way.
Alright. That's what I came up with *after* my facetious post earlier...
It's not too difficult to do, really. Hot air rises (that's the basis
for much of the earth's weather systems), so all Polgara'd have to do
would be to heat the air... IF she remembered that hot air rises, of
course. Given that she hadn't been doing a great deal of studying and
didn't put much store by books, though, she might just have tried to do
it by manual lifting...
Pop a powerful-enough heat source in there by sorcery, and you could
have a pretty strong wind. The trick is to get it coming in from a
particular direction, which requires one to coordinate the heating with
a cooling of the air in the source region, and also requires that the
source and destination not be too far apart...
Charles Meigh
Cho-Hag wrote in message <3484AC5D...@stronghold.algaria.gov>...
>It's not too difficult to do, really. Hot air rises (that's the basis
>for much of the earth's weather systems), so all Polgara'd have to do
>would be to heat the air... IF she remembered that hot air rises, of
>course. Given that she hadn't been doing a great deal of studying and
>didn't put much store by books, though, she might just have tried to do
>it by manual lifting...
>
Ah but Polgara is the Queen of the Sumptuous Repast, and therefore will be
intimately aware of heat and convection currents. How else do you produce
succulent meats with gorgeous crackling, and roast potatoes to perfection -
all in the same oven. Her sauces and gravies...sorry I'm drooling, but
anyway I rest my case.
Castellan
Killane
Cho-Hag wrote:
>
> It's not too difficult to do, really. Hot air rises (that's the basis
> for much of the earth's weather systems), so all Polgara'd have to do
> would be to heat the air... IF she remembered that hot air rises, of
> course. Given that she hadn't been doing a great deal of studying and
> didn't put much store by books, though, she might just have tried to do
> it by manual lifting...
>
> have a pretty strong wind. The trick is to get it coming in from a
> particular direction, which requires one to coordinate the heating with
> a cooling of the air in the source region, and also requires that the
> source and destination not be too far apart...
Well, here's a slightly different way of looking at it:
Given: When you gather will, you are drawing energy from yourselfand
your surroundings. This energy could be potential or Kinetic
oringinally, but as you gather it, it is all converted to potential
energy (U).
So --- As you say the Word to release all that PE in the form of
controlled Kinetic Energy (K), You are causing molecules to gain K.
As they do this, they generate heat (so to speak). Therefore, you would
be able to cause wind by simply releasing your Will upon all the air
molecules in your vacinity. This is proven since U=K from consevation of
energy.
That's about the best I can explain it.
--
Ah, an' aren't y' th' darlin' girl t' say so?
Greektos
Killane wrote in message <3484EB...@lynx.neu.edu>...
>Cho-Hag wrote:
>Well, here's a slightly different way of looking at it:
>Given: When you gather will, you are drawing energy from yourselfand
>your surroundings. This energy could be potential or Kinetic
>oringinally, but as you gather it, it is all converted to potential
>energy (U).
>So --- As you say the Word to release all that PE in the form of
>controlled Kinetic Energy (K), You are causing molecules to gain K.
>As they do this, they generate heat (so to speak). Therefore, you would
>be able to cause wind by simply releasing your Will upon all the air
>molecules in your vacinity. This is proven since U=K from consevation of
>energy.
There's really one problem with that.. If you remember, when Garion tried to
move the rock with his will, he basically piledrived himself into the ground
with the force. I know that there are ways to "brace" yourself against that
kind of thing, but you have to remember that the amount of force exerted
through will is related to the amount of actual physical power you have and
the training you've undergone as well. I'm not saying that Belgarath would
have a problem moving a .. oh.. bulldozer, but moving air is a much larger
deal. To create any kind of wind would be the same as trying to create a
wave of any size in the ocean... to create wind of ANY force, the amount of
air moved would be gigantic.
Then again.. it is fantasy :)
- "Make it a command, not a question." Aldur - Paraphrased
Chris Adamantidis
Carleton University
Killane
Greektos wrote:
> ..........
> wave of any size in the ocean... to create wind of ANY force, the amount of
> air moved would be gigantic.
let physics do it for you:
______________________________________________________
/
/
cold air / warm air
/ (pushes cold air down and away)
--------------------/ ----------------------------
so, you transfer the potential energy that you have stored as Will to
the individual particles of air. This causes them to have kinetic energy
which manifests itself in the form of heat. This does not seem that
difficult. It just depends on how MUCh energy you can withstand, and how
good your SKILL is at directing it.
David Scurrah
Andrew Shore (Jaycey) wrote:
>
<snip>
> The point was that *if* he'd been much less skilled and much less
> powerful than 'Grat, why was the Beloved of Aldur so exhausted after
> fighting him?
>
> Everyone had been putting Ctuchik low on both lists...
>
> Jaycey... {:->
I don't know if you are quite right about that, Belgarath had to
suddenly protect himself from an exploding Cruchik. Remember other
disciples leveled their towers when they uttered those forbidden words
(least that's how I always assumed they committed suicide).Beldin gets
exhausted just from moving a few stone blocks around in BTS so
exhaustion to me doesn't really signify the skill of your opponent - I
mean how skilled is a rock ?? :)
later David Scurrah.
Greektos
Killane wrote in message <348650...@lynx.neu.edu>...
Alright.. I agree with that, but the amount of energy isn't really a factor
at that point.. How many molecules of air is there in even 1L of air? Now,
let's move 1L of air.. that doesn't really make much of a breeze.. can
anyone support how much air would have to be moved in order to create.. say
a breeze?
Paul Freeman
A post rose in the newsgroup alt.fan.eddings. The post was not The
was a post from "Andrew Shore (Jaycey)" <ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk>:
> The point was that *if* he'd been much less skilled and much less
>powerful than 'Grat, why was the Beloved of Aldur so exhausted after
>fighting him?
Wasn't part of Belgarath's problem being at the centre of the huge
explosion. Quite clearly he wasn't knocked out before Ctuchik said
"be not" cos he was still fighting him. Yet after the blast, he had
been thrown across the room and knocked out cold. That was what
caused Belgarath's state of exhaustion.
>Everyone had been putting Ctuchik low on both lists...
He must have been the near equal to Belgarath to last so long in a
fight with him. I'd rate him as the best sorcerer on the Dark side.
Paul
Goh Hock Leong
Hi,
just to add my thought.
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Greektos wrote:
>
>
> There's really one problem with that.. If you remember, when Garion tried to
> move the rock with his will, he basically piledrived himself into the ground
> with the force. I know that there are ways to "brace" yourself against that
> kind of thing, but you have to remember that the amount of force exerted
> through will is related to the amount of actual physical power you have and
> the training you've undergone as well. I'm not saying that Belgarath would
> have a problem moving a .. oh.. bulldozer, but moving air is a much larger
> deal. To create any kind of wind would be the same as trying to create a
> wave of any size in the ocean... to create wind of ANY force, the amount of
> air moved would be gigantic.
hmmm... from Belgarath way of teaching the W&W, the how Garion
uses it, seems to suggest that the third law of newton motion - i.e. there
is an equal and opp. reaction to any action...., well, to be consistent,
the three laws shouldbe follow in that fantasy world. Althought for
magic, a new kind of forces with new coupling constant is required, with
diff. potential field. and uses the force to interact with gravitational
field, e.g. move a rock, or electromagnetic field, create lightning or
fireball. how does that sound? any input?
Hawk Neon
Goh Hock Leong
On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Killane wrote:
> Greektos wrote:
> ______________________________________________________
> /
> /
> cold air / warm air
> / (pushes cold air down and away)
> --------------------/ ----------------------------
>
> so, you transfer the potential energy that you have stored as Will to
> the individual particles of air. This causes them to have kinetic energy
> which manifests itself in the form of heat. This does not seem that
> difficult. It just depends on how MUCh energy you can withstand, and how
> good your SKILL is at directing it.
R u suggesting that the force required to do that is not large?
Althought molecule is small, but there are a not, there are 6x10^23
molecules per mole, i.e. per 24 dm^3 of air. to have any significant
wind, i.e. wind that can blow your hair up, well, let's just concentrate
on a human head, which is roughly 1.2 dm^3, which is roughly 3x10^22
molecules. that is still a lot of molecules. to have a large gale,
sweeping a plain of soldiers, well, i don't even dare to look at the
figures.
Hawk Neon
Merel
>There's really one problem with that.. If you remember, when Garion tried to
>move the rock with his will, he basically piledrived himself into the ground
>with the force. I know that there are ways to "brace" yourself against that
>kind of thing, but you have to remember that the amount of force exerted
>through will is related to the amount of actual physical power you have and
>the training you've undergone as well. I'm not saying that Belgarath would
>have a problem moving a .. oh.. bulldozer, but moving air is a much larger
>deal. To create any kind of wind would be the same as trying to create a
>wave of any size in the ocean... to create wind of ANY force, the amount of
>air moved would be gigantic.
>
>Then again.. it is fantasy :)
>
>- "Make it a command, not a question." Aldur - Paraphrased
>Chris Adamantidis
>Carleton University
>
>
>
You are forgetting a very basic law of physics "for every action
there is an equal and opposite reation." Which is why Garion got
driven into the ground and why Polgara took such great pains to begin
storms out as small winds in other regions. That way she didn't have
to counter balance her will against the resulting force. ll she had to
do was start a small breeze in the right geologic/atmospheric
place/condition and allow the actual mechanics of nature take over
what she started. Which is also why every one was so angry about
Belgarion's storm when dealing with Mandorallen. The resulting storm
increased so violently as it continued that it took a herculean effort
to stop it.
Merel
Merel
>
>
>> cold air / warm air
>> / (pushes cold air down and away)
>> so, you transfer the potential energy that you have stored as Will to
>> the individual particles of air. This causes them to have kinetic energy
>> which manifests itself in the form of heat. This does not seem that
>> difficult. It just depends on how MUCh energy you can withstand, and how
>> good your SKILL is at directing it.
>
>
> R u suggesting that the force required to do that is not large?
>Althought molecule is small, but there are a not, there are 6x10^23
>molecules per mole, i.e. per 24 dm^3 of air. to have any significant
>wind, i.e. wind that can blow your hair up, well, let's just concentrate
>on a human head, which is roughly 1.2 dm^3, which is roughly 3x10^22
>molecules. that is still a lot of molecules. to have a large gale,
>sweeping a plain of soldiers, well, i don't even dare to look at the
>figures.
>
>
>Hawk Neon
>
Remember inertia, a body in motion wll remain in motion until acted
upon by an outside force. The small amount of molecules put into
motion by Garion would interact with other molecules thus pushing
additional molecules unaffected by his will. Then if you add the
substantual force of weather itself you can see and understand how a
small breeze can turn into a gale force wind. As an example look at El
Nino or a tornado for that matter. A small wind can affect a large
sweeping gale and redirect the force and in turn cause large
atmospheric changes.
Merel
Merel
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:43:07 -0500, "Eric Strong" <em...@cornell.edu>
wrote:
Uh...aren't you all forgetting that it was actually stated that Garion
was the most powerful? That he was the inheritor of the greatest
powers because of his role as the Child of Light?
As for most skilled, there will never really be a single correct
answer. It all boils down to the arguments over intelligence:
Who is more "gifted" a highly intelligent mathemtician or a virtuoso
musicial unparalleled (sp?) in his field?
Skill is a matter of interpretation and application.
Merel
Greektos
Goh Hock Leong wrote in message ...
>Hi,
>
>
> just to add my thought.
>
>On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Greektos wrote:
>>
>>
>> There's really one problem with that.. If you remember, when Garion tried
to
>> move the rock with his will, he basically piledrived himself into the
ground
>> with the force. I know that there are ways to "brace" yourself against
that
>> kind of thing, but you have to remember that the amount of force exerted
>> through will is related to the amount of actual physical power you have
and
>> the training you've undergone as well. I'm not saying that Belgarath
would
>> have a problem moving a .. oh.. bulldozer, but moving air is a much
larger
>> deal. To create any kind of wind would be the same as trying to create a
>> wave of any size in the ocean... to create wind of ANY force, the amount
of
>> air moved would be gigantic.
>
>
> hmmm... from Belgarath way of teaching the W&W, the how Garion
>uses it, seems to suggest that the third law of newton motion - i.e. there
>is an equal and opp. reaction to any action...., well, to be consistent,
>the three laws shouldbe follow in that fantasy world. Althought for
>magic, a new kind of forces with new coupling constant is required, with
>diff. potential field. and uses the force to interact with gravitational
>field, e.g. move a rock, or electromagnetic field, create lightning or
>fireball. how does that sound? any input?
Well.. I don't know if you watch Star Trek.. but there was an episode in
ST:TNG where Q became part of normal humanity.. and there was a moon that
was going to crash into some planet and his services were needed. Now, this
guy has been around for.. oh millennia and his IQ was about as big as data's
but his solutions were a little farfetched.. oh.. "All you have to do is
change the gravitational constant of the universe." Now, I'm not saying
that that is what you're suggesting, BUT I am saying that there is a certain
kinship in the ideas. This is fantasy we have to remember and there must be
different laws or at least extra ones, but as far as I can tell, Will is
only able to affect the physical world. I know magnetism is part of the
physical world but how can the Will and the Word affect it? Much less
electrostatic fields?
Greektos
Merel wrote in message <34881053...@news.nb.net>...
--------SNIP!-----------
>Remember inertia, a body in motion wll remain in motion until acted
>upon by an outside force. The small amount of molecules put into
>motion by Garion would interact with other molecules thus pushing
>additional molecules unaffected by his will. Then if you add the
>substantual force of weather itself you can see and understand how a
>small breeze can turn into a gale force wind. As an example look at El
>Nino or a tornado for that matter. A small wind can affect a large
>sweeping gale and redirect the force and in turn cause large
>atmospheric changes.
Well, I would agree with you.. but let's do a little experiment.. wave your
hand in the air. . or even wave a large cardboard slab and see how much wind
you create, how far does the wind travel? Let's say 10 feet.. that's about
double what it actually does, but let's be generous.. Now, to keep a wind
going for about oh.. 1000 feet, you'd need 100 times the force if the
function of how the air decelerates was linear... but obviously it's not.. I
don't know how you could find the function, but if you could find it... you
could find how many "swings of the cardboard it would take.. or rather how
big of a swing you'd have to take.. Air already has plenty of kinetic energy
and some of it isn't going your way.. so you have to push through the
molecules flying at you as well as the one's going with you.
Andrew Shore (Jaycey)
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Jeff McClean wrote:
> SNIP
>
> > The point was that *if* he'd been much less skilled and much less
> > powerful than 'Grat, why was the Beloved of Aldur so exhausted after
> > fighting him?
> >
> > Everyone had been putting Ctuchik low on both lists...
> >
> > Jaycey... {:->
>
> Well, I posted the first lists, and I placed Ctuchik high in both Power
> and Skill; that seemed to be about the only major disagreement people
> had with me -- everyone else placed him lower... But my reasoning was
> exactly that... He must be pretty damn skilled and powerful if
> Belgarath was incapacitated after battling him. And on top of that -- I
> seem to remember (my little brother has all my books, so forgive me if
> this is my imagination) Belgarath saying to Pol that she wasn't ready to
> face Ctuchik at some point. If that's the case, it seems to re-enforce
> the idea that everyone is underestimating Ctuchik....
>
> Respectfully,
>
> The Seer of Kell
Sounds reasonable, at least... when I first brought up the argument I
thought that possibly Belgarath was tired beforehand or something, but
no-one's mentioned it... must be faulty memory... :)
Jaycey... {:->
Andrew Shore (Jaycey)
On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Paul Freeman wrote:
> A post rose in the newsgroup alt.fan.eddings. The post was not The
> Post from "Andrew Shore (Jaycey)" <ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk>, but it
> was a post from "Andrew Shore (Jaycey)" <ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk>:
>
> > The point was that *if* he'd been much less skilled and much less
> >powerful than 'Grat, why was the Beloved of Aldur so exhausted after
> >fighting him?
>
> Wasn't part of Belgarath's problem being at the centre of the huge
> explosion. Quite clearly he wasn't knocked out before Ctuchik said
> "be not" cos he was still fighting him. Yet after the blast, he had
> been thrown across the room and knocked out cold. That was what
> caused Belgarath's state of exhaustion.
Finally! I knew there was *something* about that whole aequence of
events we'd been ignoring... :> Not that it makes too much difference to
the final conclusion:
> >Everyone had been putting Ctuchik low on both lists...
>
> He must have been the near equal to Belgarath to last so long in a
> fight with him. I'd rate him as the best sorcerer on the Dark side.
How long exactly did he last, then?
> Paul
Jaycey... {:->
Cyberkalt
In article 'Most Powerful? Most Skilled?, Merel reaches out with her divine
tongue and puts forth her argument:
>Uh...aren't you all forgetting that it was actually stated that Garion
>was the most powerful? That he was the inheritor of the greatest
>powers because of his role as the Child of Light?
I think that it depends on who is the Child Of Light at the time in question.
Although in Garions case, the light prophecy probably forsaw that he may have
needed the extra umph cos he was a simple peasant boy.
>As for most skilled, there will never really be a single correct
>answer. It all boils down to the arguments over intelligence:
>
>Who is more "gifted" a highly intelligent mathemtician or a virtuoso
>musicial unparalleled (sp?) in his field?
>Skill is a matter of interpretation and application.
>Merel
True. It all depends on ones conceptual model. However, people can be graded
in school on various subjects, and so if a reasonable number of different
skills were taken into account and graded, there would be a logical basis for
comparison. (Kalten is currently in Spock mode!).
Kalten~!!!
Cyberkalt
In article 'Most Powerful? Most Skilled?', Greektos reaches forth into the
Eddings dimention and showers us all with divine enlightenment:
>Alright.. I agree with that, but the amount of energy isn't really a factor
>at that point.. How many molecules of air is there in even 1L of air? Now,
>let's move 1L of air.. that doesn't really make much of a breeze.. can
>anyone support how much air would have to be moved in order to create.. say
>a breeze?
>
>- "Make it a command, not a question." Aldur - Paraphrased
>Chris Adamantidis
>Carleton University
Why don't we just all agree that they all need a drink after shifting some air?
:)
Kalten
Semi-phenominal nearly-intelligent University.
Paul Freeman
A post rose in the newsgroup alt.fan.eddings. The post was not The
Post from "Andrew Shore (Jaycey)" <ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk>, but it
was a post from "Andrew Shore (Jaycey)" <ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk>:
> Finally! I knew there was *something* about that whole aequence of
>events we'd been ignoring... :> Not that it makes too much difference to
>the final conclusion:
True.
>> >Everyone had been putting Ctuchik low on both lists...
>>
>> He must have been the near equal to Belgarath to last so long in a
>> fight with him. I'd rate him as the best sorcerer on the Dark side.
>
> How long exactly did he last, then?
Sorry, I wasn't timing it :)
Actually, considering the number of direct sorcerer vs sorcerer fights
is very low, the very fact that Ctuchik stood for any length of time
is an achievement in itself.
I'm too lasy to go through the books and can only think of a number of
examples off hand (everyone - here's your chance to prove my wrong :)
Garion, making very short work of Chamdar, in that famous heated
discussion they had.
Garion, preparing for Erastide, by stuffing the Hierarch into walls
(as a shadow, natch)
Polgara forcing Chabat to call a demon straight away without even
trying to use the W&TW.
Actually, either my brain has gone dead, or there weren't that many
confrontations so I'll just await your response.
Greektos
Cyberkalt wrote in message
<19971205210...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Yea.. I think they could all use some sort of Gatorade..
Cho-Hag
Greektos wrote:
> This is fantasy we have to remember and there must be
> different laws or at least extra ones, but as far as I can tell, Will is
> only able to affect the physical world. I know magnetism is part of the
> physical world but how can the Will and the Word affect it? Much less
> electrostatic fields?
Remember Ctuchik vs. Belgarath? They DID throw lightning bolts around...
and I don't think anyone will dispute that an electric current creates a
localised magnetic field...
Zeshan
Cho-Hag <cho...@stronghold.algaria.gov> wrote in article
<3484AC5D...@stronghold.algaria.gov>...
> It's not too difficult to do, really. Hot air rises (that's the basis
> for much of the earth's weather systems), so all Polgara'd have to do
> would be to heat the air... IF she remembered that hot air rises, of
> course.
Actually, its the cold air that sinks, because its more dense, it pushes
the hot (less dense) air up. (IIRC)
Just thought I'd point that out :-)
Zeshan
Greektos
Cho-Hag wrote in message <348974BC...@stronghold.algaria.gov>...
>Greektos wrote:
>> This is fantasy we have to remember and there must be
>> different laws or at least extra ones, but as far as I can tell, Will is
>> only able to affect the physical world. I know magnetism is part of the
>> physical world but how can the Will and the Word affect it? Much less
>> electrostatic fields?
>
>Remember Ctuchik vs. Belgarath? They DID throw lightning bolts around...
>and I don't think anyone will dispute that an electric current creates a
>localised magnetic field...
Alright.. I agree.. but how did they conjure them up? How exactly did they
manipulate the inherent charge in the air and/or surroundings to throw
around them bolts?
Merel
>
>Merel wrote in message <34881053...@news.nb.net>...
>--------SNIP!-----------
>Well, I would agree with you.. but let's do a little experiment.. wave your
>hand in the air. . or even wave a large cardboard slab and see how much wind
>you create, how far does the wind travel? Let's say 10 feet.. that's about
>double what it actually does, but let's be generous.. Now, to keep a wind
>going for about oh.. 1000 feet, you'd need 100 times the force if the
>function of how the air decelerates was linear... but obviously it's not.. I
>don't know how you could find the function, but if you could find it... you
>could find how many "swings of the cardboard it would take.. or rather how
>big of a swing you'd have to take.. Air already has plenty of kinetic energy
>and some of it isn't going your way.. so you have to push through the
>molecules flying at you as well as the one's going with you.
>
>- "Make it a command, not a question." Aldur - Paraphrased
>Chris Adamantidis
>Carleton University
>
>
>
Which is precisely why you would have to generate an upper air level
occurance in order to have nature continue the trend created.
Merel
Greektos
Merel wrote in message <348eb218...@news.nb.net>...
>On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:27:19 -0500, "Greektos"
><cadams@spamthis!.storm.ca> wrote:
>
--------SNIP!-----------
>>Merel wrote in message <34881053...@news.nb.net>...
>Which is precisely why you would have to generate an upper air level
>occurance in order to have nature continue the trend created.
Okay.. but how much air has to be moved then?