Belgarion
DAVID NATHANIEL ZINCK
twentieth time,
Is Belgarion Immortal? Immortality is the gift of all of aldur's
disciples, but how about the grolims? Eddings never is clear as to wether
or not the grolims who use sorcerery are immortal, are they? What do you
guys think?
Dave,
Keeper of the Gateway.
Johne Tsau
I think your premise is wrong... Aldur is not making the disciples immortal,
they are becoming immortal themselves thru their own sorcery. Perfect
examples of strong sorcerers becoming immortal are Ctuchik (sp?), the
club-footed one, Zedar (after he left Aldur), and Polgara.
I think only fairly powerful sorcerers can do this, but I don't think its
an act of Aldur or any other God.
Of course I could be wrong... its been known to happen on too many occasions :)
--
Johne... Kariel the Margrave
"The question the truly scientific ask is 'Did God make man,
or did man make God?'"
UNIX Address : ts...@cae.wisc.edu
Real World Address : 5348 Brummel St, Skokie, IL 60077
Real World Phone : (708) 674-2947
cup...@cibbs.uucp
i don't think that Belgarion is immortal...he's not REALLY a disciple of
Aldur, he's more of "Polgara's gift" than anything else...maybe because she
was the main person who had taken care of the Rivan line of orphans than
anyone else. (meaning the little boy who was saved by a snowy owl when
Salmissra had the Rivan Line massacred and Garion as a boy, and whoever else
she had raised) Also, when Polgara and the others were made disciples, they
stopped aging...Garion ages, Polgara, Belgarath, Durnik probably doesn't after
he was made a disciple, Beldin, Belkira and Beltira don't.
Cupcake
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Donal K. Fellows
>003...@ace.acadiau.ca (DAVID NATHANIEL ZINCK) writes:
>> Is Belgarion Immortal? Immortality is the gift of all of aldur's
>> disciples, but how about the grolims? Eddings never is clear as to wether
>> or not the grolims who use sorcerery are immortal, are they? What do you
>> guys think?
>
>i don't think that Belgarion is immortal...he's not REALLY a disciple of
>stopped aging...Garion ages, Polgara, Belgarath, Durnik probably doesn't after
>he was made a disciple, Beldin, Belkira and Beltira don't.
>
Garion ages because he is not yet full grown when he comes into his powers,
yet once he is full grown (as at the end of the Malloreon), he ceases to age
as such, and merely grows older (because of the passing of time &c.)
This is not because he is a disciple of Aldur, but because he is a sorcerer.
The same is true for the grolims (those with sufficient power anyway), and for
the other sorcerers in the world (Senji). They do not age, but the do grow
older.
_None_ of them are immortal (neither are the Gods, witness Torak).
I hope this clears things up.
Donal.
--
"Everything that is not nailed down is mine.
Everything that I can pry loose is not nailed down."
- Collis P. Huntingdon
Lydia Leong
>Also, when Polgara and the others were made disciples, they
>stopped aging...Garion ages, Polgara, Belgarath, Durnik probably doesn't after
>he was made a disciple, Beldin, Belkira and Beltira don't.
This is incorrect. Belgarath, at least, was a disciple from early
adulthood on, and he certainly has the appearance of an old man.
Polgara, I believe, looks middle-aged (I always pictured her as
appearing to be in her late thirties, and the cover art seems to
support this notion. Nobody in the books ever comments that she
looks young. If she'd stopped aging when she discovered her powers,
she'd probably look to be 20-ish).
It would probably be more correct to say that the disciples of Aldur
do not suffer the debilitative effects of age, and can probably "freeze"
their physical appearance at whatever age they choose.
Dan Fleet
I'd like to throw my opinions into the immortality fray.
I agree with the idea that sorcerors make themselves immortal. Remember
that sorcery is all willpower. (And that willpower can do some pretty
amazing stuff). A Sorcerer can live as long as the Will to live exists.
(Note that no one, with the possible exception of UL, and the Universe
herself, is immortal in Edding's books. Immortal implies that one cannot
die by any means. Even the Gods can die. (See Torak)).
I believe that a sorceror can halt his or her aging at will. I also think
that the halting of aging is an unconsious act on the sorceror's part.
For instance, Belgarath's persona fits that of an imposing, disreputable
old man. So, that's the form that he "assumed", unconsiously, over the
years. You will note that though he LOOKS old, he has none of the
discomforts of the old. Belgarath can run, swim, and fly with the best of
them.
Polgara, I picture to be in her late thirties, a strong willed, mature
woman. No where does it explicitly state her age appearance, but she is
always described as regally beautiful, etc. This evokes an image of a
well-defined character, which also fits Polgara's persona.
I think that Garion will stop his own aging pretty much right away. Ce'Nedra
isn't going to get any older, for one, and Garion tends to be a strong,
youthful ball of energy anyway. I don't really picture him as some "Gandalf"
type sorceror. Remember, Garion gets along very well with his sword.
Books, on the other hand, seem kind of antithesis to him. "Young and active"
fits Garion rather well, IMHO.
As for the argument about whether or not Ce'Nedra is a sorceress or not
("The marriage of equals" thing), Ce'Nera is a purebred, 100% dryad who
lives as long as her tree does. Seeing as how her "Grandfather in Law",
Belgarath, seems to have this way with trees, and she is surrounded by
a bunch of the most powerful sorcerors in existence, (and MARRIED to one
of them...:-), I don't think that Ce'Nedra is in any immediate danger of
dying. Check back in a thousand years or so.
Anyway, enough rambling. Back to your regularily scheduled discussion...
----
Dan Fleet is p9...@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca University of New Brunswick
----
cup...@cibbs.uucp
> In article <ZwDZuB...@cibbs.UUCP> cup...@cibbs.UUCP writes:
> >003...@ace.acadiau.ca (DAVID NATHANIEL ZINCK) writes:
> >Also, when Polgara and the others were made disciples, they
> >stopped aging...Garion ages, Polgara, Belgarath, Durnik probably doesn't aft
> >he was made a disciple, Beldin, Belkira and Beltira don't.
>
> This is incorrect. Belgarath, at least, was a disciple from early
> adulthood on, and he certainly has the appearance of an old man.
> Polgara, I believe, looks middle-aged (I always pictured her as
> appearing to be in her late thirties, and the cover art seems to
> support this notion. Nobody in the books ever comments that she
> looks young. If she'd stopped aging when she discovered her powers,
> she'd probably look to be 20-ish).
>
> It would probably be more correct to say that the disciples of Aldur
> do not suffer the debilitative effects of age, and can probably "freeze"
> their physical appearance at whatever age they choose.
>
Maybe we're onto something here....As you've said, they may be able to
"freeze" their age....but what happens when the sorceress/sorceror comes into
his/her full power? It was written that one of the reasons of why Belgarath
looks so wrinkled (?) is because when he was in wolf-form once, for a long
time in the cold and the snow, his fur was "touched with silver"...doesn't
that sort of mean that once you're form changes in one ...form....doesn't it
change in ALL of your forms? (Is this confusing or what?) Afterwords, since
the wolf-form looks old, doesn't that mean that the human-form looks pretty
ancient too?
Cupcake
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Elizabeth Pine / Toronto,Ontario Canada
cup...@cibbs.UUCP uunorth!cibbs!cupcake
Dan Fleet
>Maybe we're onto something here....As you've said, they may be able to
>"freeze" their age....but what happens when the sorceress/sorceror comes into
>his/her full power? It was written that one of the reasons of why Belgarath
>looks so wrinkled (?) is because when he was in wolf-form once, for a long
>time in the cold and the snow, his fur was "touched with silver"...doesn't
>that sort of mean that once you're form changes in one ...form....doesn't it
>change in ALL of your forms? (Is this confusing or what?) Afterwords, since
>the wolf-form looks old, doesn't that mean that the human-form looks pretty
>ancient too?
I would agree with this. Changing forms is a really tricky business, and
most likely something happening in one form would affect the other. I can
think of a couple of times that this was true.
Remember when Beldin got into a fight with another bird in the Mallorean?
He was limping in human form afterwards.
Also, there was a time when Polgara was in owl form, and changed back. One
of the characters picked up a feather from the ground and handed it back to
her. She said "Thank you, I would have missed that". Implying that SOMETHING
would be different with Polgara had she forgotten the feather.
> Elizabeth Pine / Toronto,Ontario Canada
> cup...@cibbs.UUCP uunorth!cibbs!cupcake
Dan Fleet is p9...@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca University of New Brunswick
Amiga 4000/040 Fredericton, NB, Canada
Joshua Henry Geurink
>> Hi, I was just wondering as I was reading the Mallorean for the
>> twentieth time,
>> Is Belgarion Immortal? Immortality is the gift of all of aldur's
>> disciples, but how about the grolims? Eddings never is clear as to wether
>> or not the grolims who use sorcerery are immortal, are they? What do you
>> guys think?
>i don't think that Belgarion is immortal...he's not REALLY a disciple of
>Aldur, he's more of "Polgara's gift" than anything else...maybe because she
>was the main person who had taken care of the Rivan line of orphans than
>anyone else. (meaning the little boy who was saved by a snowy owl when
>Salmissra had the Rivan Line massacred and Garion as a boy, and whoever else
>she had raised) Also, when Polgara and the others were made disciples, they
>stopped aging...Garion ages, Polgara, Belgarath, Durnik probably doesn't after
>he was made a disciple, Beldin, Belkira and Beltira don't.
Ehhhh... you folks are forgetting that alchemist in the Mallorean.
Remember - he came by sorcery by accident, and became immortal in the
process. (Prepare to see a name murdered!) Cthutik (the guy with Errand
in the Belgariad) Lost his status as "Disciple of Aldur" when he began
serving Torak, and he still kept HIS immortality...
No, Garion IS immortal, as is Durnik. Polgara is not the type of woman
who could just marry ANY man -- she needs a husband ETERNAL. Durnik will
last just as long as she...
I guess this means all the grolims are immortal, too. Well, why not?
Some of the grolims were quite powerful... others not.
Man, it is SO annoying to try and spell these WEIRD names without benefit
of my books!
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Joshua Henry Geurink
>In article <ZwDZuB...@cibbs.UUCP> cup...@cibbs.UUCP writes:
>>003...@ace.acadiau.ca (DAVID NATHANIEL ZINCK) writes:
>>Also, when Polgara and the others were made disciples, they
>>stopped aging...Garion ages, Polgara, Belgarath, Durnik probably doesn't after
>>he was made a disciple, Beldin, Belkira and Beltira don't.
>
>This is incorrect. Belgarath, at least, was a disciple from early
>adulthood on, and he certainly has the appearance of an old man.
>Polgara, I believe, looks middle-aged (I always pictured her as
>appearing to be in her late thirties, and the cover art seems to
>support this notion. Nobody in the books ever comments that she
>looks young. If she'd stopped aging when she discovered her powers,
>she'd probably look to be 20-ish).
Sorry. You forgot one important fact -- the same reason Belgarath looks
EXACTLY like (prepare to see his name murdered again) Chuktick (that
guy who had the orb and Errand in the Belgariad) is the same reason
he looks old. Belgarath has taken on the face of Aldur.
I think it's safe to say people stop aging when they want to - subconsciously.
It just becomes "I like what I look like" that keeps them perpetually
young.
Mark
It was in fact Zedar (formaly Belzedar) who looked like Belgarath, not Chuktick
ke...@uk.ac.ox.physchem
--
Mark
Eccles
>In article <ZwDZuB...@cibbs.UUCP> cup...@cibbs.UUCP writes:
>>003...@ace.acadiau.ca (DAVID NATHANIEL ZINCK) writes:
>I guess this means all the grolims are immortal, too. Well, why not?
>Some of the grolims were quite powerful... others not.
Don't forget - immortal, not invunerable :)
Eccles