Redemption of Althalus
Shelly ~~@fake.invalid ~~ Shelly ~~
~~ Shelly ~~
Nick Boalch
> Did anybody besides myself like "The Redemption of Althalus"?
I didn't actively hate it; but it was a bit of a disappointment. It felt
like a proper series had been crammed into one book so that there wasn't
any proper time given to (a) actual character development and (b) making
the bad guys actually competent. What was left was Eddings clichés tied
together: not one of his best.
Cheers,
N.
(Hi, everyone!)
--
<Khendon> Your facts cannot harm me, my prejudice is like a shield of steel!
Aquarion
> On 2007-04-03, ~~ Shelly ~~ <~~> wrote:
>> Did anybody besides myself like "The Redemption of Althalus"?
>
> I didn't actively hate it; but it was a bit of a disappointment. It felt
> like a proper series had been crammed into one book so that there wasn't
> any proper time given to (a) actual character development and (b) making
> the bad guys actually competent. What was left was Eddings clichés tied
> together: not one of his best.
In fact, the beginning, where he was a kind of Action-Silk, was quite
fun, but the moment he met Aphrael^WDweia onwards it went downhill a
bit.
I don't object to Eddings' use of Archtypes - it is, as he keeps telling
us, a traditional method of storytelling - especially as the
Theif & Paladin archtypes (The combination of Silk & Sparhawk Althalus
becomes) are two of Eddings' Archtypes I actually like. The main problem
is that you can claim traditional story telling style as much as you
like, but the story wasn't actually much good. Also, the non-"uptime"
banter sessions which so helped the characterisation in previous series
were erradicated by the "Magic House" concept.
And such. I can go on about this for a while, but RoA isn't one of my
favourite books, no. It is, however, better than PtS and every single
one of the new series.
--
Aquarion.
Last of the Free Aqs.
Mandorallen
>
from him, in just about everything he'd written previously.
--
Mandorallen
Troels Forchhammer
"~~ Shelly ~~" <~~ Shelly ~~@fake.invalid> spoke these staves:
>
> Did anybody besides myself like "The Redemption of Althalus"?
I actually liked it as well.
It is difficult to gauge the quality properly when one has read both
the Elenium and the Belgariad (with various se- and prequels), because
much of the tone is the same. /The Redemption of Althalus/ (tRoA) is
certainly not original, but it is, IMO, arguably the best work Eddings
has written in that style. The other series has, IMHO, a tendency
towards the longwinded, which is somewhat reduced in tRoA, while
focusing on the Eddings' strengths and de-emphasizing their weaknesses
(world-building and plot-consistency is, for instance, not something
they should attempt to instruct others at -- despite of /The Rivan
Codex/).
All in all I think /The Redemption of Althalus/ to be one of their best
books, but to have relied too heavily on their successes in the former
fantasy works, and thus contain too few new elements.
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
It is the theory which decides what can be observed.
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Ce`
> Did anybody besides myself like "The Redemption of Althalus"?
Yes. But not me :)
Ce`
Ce`
>
> (Hi, everyone!)
Hey Nick!
Simon II, Aq2, Itty, Sephy, Danae, gilmae, Mandy.. god, all we need is
Aq1 to run up and it'll be like the Old Days (tm)!
So. Does anyone agree that Polgara was an Alorn? :)
Ce`
Ce`
> And such. I can go on about this for a while,
Go on then :)
>but RoA isn't one of my
> favourite books, no. It is, however, better than PtS and every single
> one of the new series.
Hmm. I'd agree it was better than the new series, but apart from the
Superowl, I don't remember PtS as being *that* bad? Oh, okay, and the
"you're so far away from me!" when she was still sharing a womb with
the sister she was "missing" so much!
Ce`
Stuart Langridge
> Simon II, Aq2, Itty, Sephy, Danae, gilmae, Mandy.. god, all we need is
> Aq1 to run up and it'll be like the Old Days (tm)!
Hm. I got nudged. Then I discovered that I've completely forgotten how to
use Usenet in the intervening few years. Hey, all. Long time, etc, etc.
> So. Does anyone agree that Polgara was an Alorn? :)
I fear this one might want to wait a bit before discussion :-)
Aq.
--
Abusus non tollit usum
(The threat of potential abuse should not be an argument against any
use)
Simon Challands
"Ce`" <lal...@googlemail.com> wrote:
That debate will be OK, just as long as it doesn't start going in to
Dryad genetics!
--
Simon Challands
Stuart Langridge
>> So. Does anyone agree that Polgara was an Alorn? :)
>
> That debate will be OK, just as long as it doesn't start going in to
> Dryad genetics!
It ought to be pointed out that we never actually nailed down the real,
full details of how Dryad genetics works :)
Plus, there are lots of people here who haven't heard the discussions
about the complexities involved in how Dryads reproduce (in particular,
how female Dryad children are always Dryads)...
Aq.
--
2. Make it halfway normal. I don't have any use for
laser-beam-shooting pocket combs, or non-existent existents existing
within their own existences, or ballpoint pens made out of lettuce.
-- CardinalT dictates rules for the raif Silly Game
The Apostate
<snip>
>
> So. Does anyone agree that Polgara was an Alorn? :)
>
> Ce`
>
According to one of the books somewhere, yes.:)
--
The Apostate
Still around
Stuart Langridge
>> So. Does anyone agree that Polgara was an Alorn? :)
> According to one of the books somewhere, yes.:)
I do believe I'd like to request a citation for that, my man :)
Aq.
--
>> Heard a lot about eggnog, but I have never experienced it
>> first-hand. What is this thing made off?
> Isn't it obvious? Eggs and nog, of course.
Don't pay any attention to him, Sid. It's eggs, *sugar*, and nog.
-- Jason, rec.humor.oracle.d
The Apostate
> The Apostate spoo'd forth:
>
>>> So. Does anyone agree that Polgara was an Alorn? :)
>> According to one of the books somewhere, yes.:)
>
> I do believe I'd like to request a citation for that, my man :)
>
> Aq.
>
Fair enough old boy - you don't mind if I call you that do you?:)
Sorceress of Darshiva chapter 19 - Bantam hardback p313
quote
"Polgara is an ALorn?" Zakath sounded surprised
"Use your eyes man. Her hairs dark [...] She and Liselle could be sisters."
/quote
mind you. Her mother was a wolf and the old man doesn't know what he is.
Time for the geneticists.
--
The Apostate
/smug mode
Stuart Langridge
>>>> So. Does anyone agree that Polgara was an Alorn? :)
>>> According to one of the books somewhere, yes.:)
>> I do believe I'd like to request a citation for that, my man :)
> Sorceress of Darshiva chapter 19 - Bantam hardback p313
> quote
> "Polgara is an ALorn?" Zakath sounded surprised
> "Use your eyes man. Her hairs dark [...] She and Liselle could be sisters."
> /quote
> mind you. Her mother was a wolf and the old man doesn't know what he is.
> Time for the geneticists.
Yeah, Garion thinks she's an Alorn. That in no way means she is. Garion's
not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer, is he?
Aq.
--
Penelope Pitstop: Ohhh, it's my arch enemy, the Hooded Claw!
The Hooded Claw: Who did you expect? Dick Dastardly?
-- The Perils of Penelope Pitstop, "Jungle Jeopardy"
Beeblebear
"Stuart Langridge" <s...@kryogenix.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.04.10....@kryogenix.org...
> The Apostate spoo'd forth:
>>>>> So. Does anyone agree that Polgara was an Alorn? :)
>>>> According to one of the books somewhere, yes.:)
>>> I do believe I'd like to request a citation for that, my man :)
>> Fair enough old boy - you don't mind if I call you that do you?:)
>> Sorceress of Darshiva chapter 19 - Bantam hardback p313
>> quote
>> "Polgara is an ALorn?" Zakath sounded surprised
>> "Use your eyes man. Her hairs dark [...] She and Liselle could be
>> sisters."
>> /quote
>> mind you. Her mother was a wolf and the old man doesn't know what he is.
>> Time for the geneticists.
>
> Yeah, Garion thinks she's an Alorn. That in no way means she is. Garion's
> not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer, is he?
There is the minor detail that if he asks the orb, she will be anything he
thinks she is.
--
--
Chris Lyth (clyt...@ifis.org.uk - shoot the president to reply)
I started out with nothing & still have most of it left.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Shelly ~~@fake.invalid ~~ Shelly ~~
>> . Garion thinks Polgara's an Alorn. That in no way means she is.
>"Beeblebear" answered:
> There is the minor detail that if he asks the orb, she will be anything he
> thinks she is.
I personally think that Garion is correct, but if he *were* to ask the Orb
to tell him the Truth about Polgara's race, I'm sure he'd get a corret
reply. After all, I can't imagine her race is really a deal-breaker,
considering all she's done for the Alorns.
Remember, not *all* of the first deciples were Alorn's, and yet they were
all accepted by Aldur, and, whether we like them or not, all the deciples
did what they were born/created/required/compelled/fated to do.
Nick Boalch
>>> Garion thinks Polgara's an Alorn. That in no way means she is.
>>> Garion's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer, is he?
>>
>> thinks she is.
>
> I personally think that Garion is correct, but if he *were* to ask the Orb
> to tell him the Truth about Polgara's race, I'm sure he'd get a corret
> reply.
It's a little unclear what the 'correct reply' is here, perhaps.
Belgarath is categorically *not* an Alorn: he states somewhere early in BtS
that the God of his lost home village wasn't Belar. So Polgara is at least
half not-Alorn.
Poledra is, well, a wolf. But it gets rubbed into us often enough that 'the
change of shape is absolute'. I don't believe it's ever said that the human
form Poledra adopts is that of an *Alorn* woman, but it would be an obvious
explanation for Garion's perception of Pol as 'clearly' Alorn.
Cheers,
N.
P.S. 'ask the Orb' sounds like a lifeline in a Belgariad version of 'who
wants to be a millionaire'.
--
Tom Servo: Okay, let's see here... Shatner, Shatner... no, doesn't look like
he's in this one; we're safe.
-- Joel Hodgson, "Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie"
Shelly ~~@fake.invalid ~~ Shelly ~~
>
> Belgarath is categorically *not* an Alorn: he states
> somewhere early in BtS that the God of his lost home
> village wasn't Belar. So Polgara is at least half not-Alorn.
~~ Shelly ~~ replied:
I really should reread these books more often, but I've loaned so
many out and didn't have them returned, or had the damned dog
chew some of them up, so I have to rely on memory. Please
remind me, did Belgarath state specifically that he *knows* that
Aldur was *not* the God of his birth village? Just wondering,
although I suspect that you remember much better than I.
> "Nick Boalch" :
> Poledra is, well, a wolf. But it gets rubbed into us
> often enough that 'the change of shape is absolute'. I
> don't believe it's ever said that the human form Poledra
> adopts is that of an *Alorn* woman, but it would be an obvious
> explanation for Garion's perception of Pol as 'clearly' Alorn.
~~ Shelly ~~
The only rebuttal I have is remembering Poledra telling Belgarath
that she had been waiting for him (I believe) since she was born.
Then, when she was still in wolf-form and (supposedly) first met
Aldur, they *knew* each other. I took it to mean that Aldur arranged
for Poledra's birth, along with full knowledge of what she was meant to do.
If that is true, then she would also know what form (race) to take
when changing into human form. Remember, she was to not only
to give birth to Polgara, but also to give birth to Beldaran, the beginning
of the Riven race, which is just a 'subset' of the Alorn race.
Do those of you who are more familiar or up-to-date with the series
agree? Hope so.
> "Nick Boalch"
>
> P.S. 'ask the Orb' sounds like a lifeline in a Belgariad version
> of 'who wants to be a millionaire'.
Hadn't thought of it that way! Darned shamed when 'modern' life
interferes with our fantasy worlds, isn't it?
~~ Shelly ~~
William Marnoch
~~@fake.invalid> wrote:
>> "Nick Boalch" wrote:
>>
>> Belgarath is categorically *not* an Alorn: he states
>> somewhere early in BtS that the God of his lost home
>> village wasn't Belar. So Polgara is at least half not-Alorn.
>
>~~ Shelly ~~ replied:
>
>I really should reread these books more often, but I've loaned so
>many out and didn't have them returned, or had the damned dog
>chew some of them up, so I have to rely on memory. Please
>remind me, did Belgarath state specifically that he *knows* that
>Aldur was *not* the God of his birth village? Just wondering,
>although I suspect that you remember much better than I.
From what I remember Belgarath says early in BtS that he can't
remember what God his fellow villagers worshipped but he was sure that
it wasn't Belar or Torak, because he thinks he would have definitely
remembered them being the God in question.
On the other hand, since Belgarath can't actually remember fundamental
details about his homeland, it is questionable whether he's really a
reliable source about anything to do with it.
--
William Marnoch
wil...@voidhawk.com
http://www.voidhawk.com/ Film and Book reviews
Stuart Langridge
> I really should reread these books more often, but I've loaned so
> many out and didn't have them returned, or had the damned dog
> chew some of them up, so I have to rely on memory. Please
> remind me, did Belgarath state specifically that he *knows* that
> Aldur was *not* the God of his birth village?
He says that he's sure that it wasn't Belar or Torak, since he'd have
remembered those. It wasn't Aldur; Aldur didn't take a race of people at
all, which is why there were Godless ones (some of whom later became the
Ulgos).
Aq.
--
<muntyan> what's the point in embedding emacs anyway? it's like
embedding rocket ship into toyota camry
Paul Freeman
> Simon II, Aq2, Itty, Sephy, Danae, gilmae, Mandy.. god, all we need is
> Aq1 to run up and it'll be like the Old Days (tm)!
Left out again. Harrumph! ;)
> So. Does anyone agree that Polgara was an Alorn? :)
Half Dryad / Half Lupine
What was on that amulet ?
Sarabian
p.s. rip leigh :(
William Marnoch
<paul.f...@gmail.com> wrote:
If you think Polgara is half-dryad does that mean you think Belgarath
is a dryad? I know he said he couldn't remember what race he was, but
I think dryad is maybe a little bit implausible ;)
Simon Challands
William Marnoch <wil...@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> On 13 Apr 2007 14:44:18 -0700, "Paul Freeman"
> <paul.f...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Apr 8, 2:34 pm, "Ce`" <lala...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Simon II, Aq2, Itty, Sephy, Danae, gilmae, Mandy.. god, all we need is
> >> Aq1 to run up and it'll be like the Old Days (tm)!
> >
> >Left out again. Harrumph! ;)
> >
> >> So. Does anyone agree that Polgara was an Alorn? :)
> >
> >Half Dryad / Half Lupine
> >
> >What was on that amulet ?
>
> If you think Polgara is half-dryad does that mean you think Belgarath
> is a dryad? I know he said he couldn't remember what race he was, but
> I think dryad is maybe a little bit implausible ;)
If we're going to be really pedantic, there's nothing to say that
conclusively that Poledera wasn't... She was first met as a wolf, and
was often one, but then she was often an owl too. There was a comment about
"So that's how it's done" with shape changing, but she's hidden the truth
once or twice when convenient (probably part of the attraction between her
and Belgarath). And Belgarath can't recall where he came from. Might've been
born a wolf and instincively changed when very young without realising it.
Or have I just spent too long in the pub?
--
Simon Challands
Stuart Langridge
> conclusively that Poledera wasn't... She was first met as a wolf, and
> was often one, but then she was often an owl too. There was a comment
> about "So that's how it's done" with shape changing, but she's hidden
> the truth once or twice when convenient (probably part of the attraction
> between her and Belgarath). And Belgarath can't recall where he came
> from. Might've been born a wolf and instincively changed when very young
> without realising it.
>
> Or have I just spent too long in the pub?
Too long in the pub, dude. By that logic we've got no proof that Urvon
wasn't a dryad either. Occam's Razor surely applies here :)
Sephy
~Sephy
Beeblebear
"Simon Challands" <simon_...@helvellyn.plus.com> wrote in message
news:73292bd3...@helvellyn.plus.com...
> In message <rr4023darthbplbhm...@4ax.com>
> William Marnoch <wil...@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 13 Apr 2007 14:44:18 -0700, "Paul Freeman"
>> <paul.f...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Apr 8, 2:34 pm, "Ce`" <lala...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Simon II, Aq2, Itty, Sephy, Danae, gilmae, Mandy.. god, all we need is
>> >> Aq1 to run up and it'll be like the Old Days (tm)!
>> >
>> >Left out again. Harrumph! ;)
>> >
>> >> So. Does anyone agree that Polgara was an Alorn? :)
>> >
>> >Half Dryad / Half Lupine
>> >
>> >What was on that amulet ?
>>
>> If you think Polgara is half-dryad does that mean you think Belgarath
>> is a dryad? I know he said he couldn't remember what race he was, but
>> I think dryad is maybe a little bit implausible ;)
>
> If we're going to be really pedantic, there's nothing to say that
> conclusively that Poledera wasn't... She was first met as a wolf, and
> was often one, but then she was often an owl too.
IIRC she also spent a couple of years as a goat when her great^x grandson
needed milk and had no mother directly available.
--
--
Chris Lyth (clyt...@ifis.org.uk - shoot the president to reply)
Instead of having "answers" on a math test, they should just
call them "impressions," and if you got a different "impression,"
so what, can't we all be brothers?
Stuart Langridge
> Tee hee. I've missed this. 'Ello, all... :D
Everyone returns :)
Aq.
--
For your information, some people think I'm very funny
-- Joe Hallenbach, "The Last Boy Scout"
Sephy
> Sephy spoo'd forth:
> > Tee hee. I've missed this. 'Ello, all... :D
> Everyone returns :)
I'm here til Thursday. Try the veal...
~Sephy ;-)
gilmae
> Occam's Razor surely applies here :)
If Occam's Razor applies than we can probably safely assume that
Garion knows what an Alorn girl looks like -- he has a whole kingdom
of them on whom he can practice his Alorn detection skills.
g. (the charming mr anti-afe :( )
Mandorallen
>
> Poledra is, well, a wolf. But it gets rubbed into us often enough that 'the
> change of shape is absolute'. I don't believe it's ever said that the human
> form Poledra adopts is that of an *Alorn* woman, but it would be an obvious
> explanation for Garion's perception of Pol as 'clearly' Alorn.
>
women hanging off Belar, so *if* there's enough separation between the
various humans to make a difference, Poledra would have taken the form
of an Alorn, since taking human form at all was a ploy to get 'Grat's
attention.
--
Mandorallen
Stuart Langridge
Heh. That's a good argument. So, we don't care based on looks, then,
unless we're claiming that Poledra looking like an Alorn means she is one.
Good one, Mandy. Next argument?
Aq.
--
If cryptography is outlawed, only outlaws wifo4(F9%!98f3((hg$;'da"d;f+
The Apostate
attributes. Surely she didn't need to be an Alorn - think Marag.
--
The Apostate
Stuart Langridge
>> Heh. That's a good argument. So, we don't care based on looks, then,
>> unless we're claiming that Poledra looking like an Alorn means she is one.
>> Good one, Mandy. Next argument?
> attributes. Surely she didn't need to be an Alorn - think Marag.
Hey, that's a bit unfair on 'Grat, that. Could have been Marag, I suppose,
but then how do you explain Polgara looking like an Alorn?
Aq.
--
In 1988 there was the war, and after that there were no more roses. Not
for anybody.
-- "V For Vendetta", Alan Moore
Aquarion
> The Apostate spoo'd forth:
>> Stuart Langridge wrote:
>>> Heh. That's a good argument. So, we don't care based on looks, then,
>>> unless we're claiming that Poledra looking like an Alorn means she is one.
>>> Good one, Mandy. Next argument?
>> But surely his attention was only riveted on one - okay, two - notable
>> attributes. Surely she didn't need to be an Alorn - think Marag.
>
> Hey, that's a bit unfair on 'Grat, that. Could have been Marag, I suppose,
> but then how do you explain Polgara looking like an Alorn?
>
She wants to be Alorn?
The Apostate
Green, mossy and covered in dog turds? Is that likely? <g,d&r>
--
The Apostate
Stuart Langridge
>> Hey, that's a bit unfair on 'Grat, that. Could have been Marag, I suppose,
>> but then how do you explain Polgara looking like an Alorn?
> She wants to be Alorn?
Very Greta Garbo of her :)
I suppose there's an outside chance you meant it seriously, in which case
I shall say: she doesn't like Alorns!
Aq.
--
"Willow hath gat hare off rede
And doth geev soopurb heede.
Buffy, as written by Geoffrey Chaucer, the dirty mediaeval git."
-- Andy Spencer, after Certic
Lord Kalten
and with the following gibber, the Holy Lord Kalten replies:
> Did anybody besides myself like "The Redemption of Althalus"?
> ~~ Shelly ~~
I actually quite liked it - enough such that I read it towards the end.
I don't really mind so much the regurgitating of characters.
However, there were a few things that seemed to let the book down:
1) It was rushed. Compared to the Belgariad/Mallorean or the
Elenium/Tamuli, Althalus rushed through the places he went to. Can you
remember the characteristics of any of the places?
2) The side of light was incredibly strong such that there really was no
point in having any kind of 'quest'. So strong such that it was important
to kill off light characters to redress the balance later in the book.
There were other bits that I didn't like, but they are small.
It could have been the third great world created series, but I think that
Eddings was getting bored of fantasy at the time and whilst liked creating
worlds (as one likes to build a map when playing strategic board games), he
no longer liked to see it through a long project.
Kalten~!!!