Age Differences in Eddings
shanno...@my-dejanews.com
and LE. I mean {off-the-top-of-my-head,ottomh ;?0} when DE refers the
respective ages of any couple there is always a rather large age difference
-- Liselle & Silk, Polgara and Durnik, Ehlana and Sparhawk, Kalten and Alean,
Danae and Talen, Sephrenia and Vanion, Arissa and Annias, Prala and Urgit,
Zakath and Cyradis (going by looks of course), Riva and Beldaran, Rhodar and
Porenn. I would even guess that Hettar (26+) is at least ten years older
than Adara (15?), if not fifteen or twenty. Oh, you know what I just thought
of one that isn't, Mandorallen and Nerina, of course there is/was an age gap
between the Baron of VoEbor and Nerina. Oh, DUH, Garion and Ce'Nedra too. I
still think there are too many for it just to be coincidence (sp?)
Shannon
BTW just started Elfstones of Sh. so I'm finally getting the references to
Ellcrys ;)
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Evarren
writes:
>Does anyone else wonder if there is a ... uh ... healthly age gap between DE
>and LE. I mean {off-the-top-of-my-head,ottomh ;?0} when DE refers the
>respective ages of any couple there is always a rather large age difference
It did strike me... but not very hard... :) I'm just not sure, actually...
Jaycey... {:->
--
Andrew J. Shore,
Guardian of AFE and Last Defender of the Rights of Dragons.
aka Jaycey on AFE, Ender on IRC, Evarren@aol.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons - for you are crunchy, and taste good
with ketchup!" - Uni of Warwick lamppost
Vanan
>Does anyone else wonder if there is a ... uh ... healthly age gap between DE
>and LE. I mean {off-the-top-of-my-head,ottomh ;?0} when DE refers the
>respective ages of any couple there is always a rather large age difference
<snip>
>I would even guess that Hettar (26+) is at least ten years older
>than Adara (15?), if not fifteen or twenty.
I always pictured Adara as in her early twenties myself. Nineteen at
least.
<snip>
>Oh, DUH, Garion and Ce'Nedra too. I
>still think there are too many for it just to be coincidence (sp?
Am I missing something here? They're less than a year apart. (I think its
about 9 or 10 months, actually.)
Vanan
Mara
>In article <6q57lv$3ua$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, shanno...@my-dejanews.com
>writes:
>
>>Does anyone else wonder if there is a ... uh ... healthly age gap between DE
>>and LE. I mean {off-the-top-of-my-head,ottomh ;?0} when DE refers the
>>respective ages of any couple there is always a rather large age difference
>
> It did strike me... but not very hard... :) I'm just not sure, actually...
there is a 3000(?) gap between pol and dunirk, and proberbly a similar
one between grat and poledra.
But aren't ther quite alot of cases of the females fancing the blokes
from the age of about 5 and then growing up and the bloke not
realising or something and after a bit they get together...
eg adara/hetter, ehlana/sparhawk, liselle/silk...
love Mara
' I'm not the only soul accused of hit an'run,
Tyre tracks all across your back,
I can see you've been having your fun.'
wood...@my-dejanews.com
In article <6q57lv$3ua$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
shanno...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Does anyone else wonder if there is a ... uh ... healthly age gap between DE
> and LE. I mean {off-the-top-of-my-head,ottomh ;?0} when DE refers the
> respective ages of any couple there is always a rather large age difference
> Danae and Talen, Sephrenia and Vanion, Arissa and Annias, Prala and Urgit,
> Zakath and Cyradis (going by looks of course), Riva and Beldaran, Rhodar and
> Porenn. I would even guess that Hettar (26+) is at least ten years older
> than Adara (15?), if not fifteen or twenty. Oh, you know what I just thought
> of one that isn't, Mandorallen and Nerina, of course there is/was an age gap
> still think there are too many for it just to be coincidence (sp?)
>
Quite a cool conclusion, I have no idea of course but I think that it might
also just be because of the period of age that it seems to be in. In RL in
the olden days it was quite normal for young girls to get married to older
men. And in my culture (Hispanic), it is still seen I believe more often
than in others. I think it has to do with this thing of women needing
supposedly male protection. Don't know about that one? But I've always
liked older men anyway.
Woodpixie
Cho-Hag
> Shannon wrote:
> >Does anyone else wonder if there is a ... uh ... healthly age gap between DE
> >and LE. I mean {off-the-top-of-my-head,ottomh ;?0} when DE refers the
> >respective ages of any couple there is always a rather large age difference
<doublesnip>
I'd agree with Vanan on both points (Adara and Ce'), but the rest do seem
to lean a little in that direction. (Polgara and Durnik, and Danae and
Talen, lean WAY over in the other direction - incidentally, were you
thinking of Danae as a few years old or millenia? - but Beldin and Vella
balance them right out. =)
I think the first time I noticed this was with Urgit and Prala - that is,
after all, the first time in the B/M where this happens, except for Rhodar
and Porenn (not sure how I somehow skipped over that). Sparhawk and Ehlana,
however, are blindingly obvious.
Hmm. Kurik and Aslade are around the same-ish age, IIRC... who else is
left?
Oh, yes... Vanan, how'd you get 9 or 10 months? The closest I can come up
with is that Garion started getting a beard sometime around the little
debacle in Nyissa, and Ce' was 16 when she presented herself in the Hall of
the Rivan King... but how much time elapsed between those two events? ISTR
there being a mention of Garion's age when the whole quest began, but am
too lazy to go dig around in my book cupboard now...
--
- Cho-Hag (who, incidentally, is back and apologises for not announcing his
temporary departure in advance. Then again, it left a free spot for someone
on the Top Posters board... :) )
shanno...@my-dejanews.com
va...@aol.com (Vanan) wrote:
> Shannon wrote:
> <snip>
> >Oh, DUH, Garion and Ce'Nedra too. I
>
> Am I missing something here? They're less than a year apart. (I think its
> about 9 or 10 months, actually.)
>
> Vanan
>
No, I meant that Garion and Ce'Nedra were like Mandorallen and Nerina -- No
real age difference. Sorry to confuse!
Shannon
shanno...@my-dejanews.com
va...@aol.com (Vanan) wrote:
> Shannon wrote:
> <snip>
> >than Adara (15?), if not fifteen or twenty.
>
> least.
Actually I was being generous in my estimate. Honestly I picture Adara 16
maybe 17(that's probably pushing it though), very close to Garion's age at
least. But Hettar I really picture in his early thirties, very much like
Adrian Paul (NO I'M NOT STARTING A CASTING THREAD SO BACK AWAY FROM THE
FLAME-THROWERS RIGHT NOW). By that I mean a dark colored man who you can
tell has experienced quite a lot but is still *quite* attractive!
Lyonors
>Does anyone else wonder if there is a ... uh ... healthly age gap between DE
>and LE.
*snip*
I feel the need to coment on this idea...Coming from a relationship with a
*healthy* age gap, this makes sense...everyone tells you, "OH MY!!! the age
difference!!! Isnt he just *too* old for you??" one feels the need to justify
it at every turn, so this might just be entirely subconscious...I catch myself
justifying when I really dont need to, only because I am *super-paranoid*
just my little *slap-happy* ramblings
*******
Lyonors
"Royalty isn't allowed to hide--at least not once it has declared itself."
ICQ: 12341657
Lyo...@erat.net
(to mail, make the duchy A O L)
Walker
Walker ducks as an arrow thunks into a tree.
Fortunately it's only a message from shanno...@my-dejanews.com...
>between the Baron of VoEbor and Nerina. Oh, DUH, Garion and Ce'Nedra too. I
>still think there are too many for it just to be coincidence (sp?)
Um. I have no thoughts on the matter, except to remark that you're
pretty observant to have spotted it. Perhaps there is? He does the
women-more-powerful-than-the-man thing, which I think picks up from the
fact the Leigh had a higher security rating than he did. I think. Or
maybe not... [shrug]
>Shannon
>BTW just started Elfstones of Sh.
Excellent!!! More Brooks!!! :)
> so I'm finally getting the references to
>Ellcrys ;)
[giggle] Wait till you get to the Heritage. Then you absolutely will be
completely mortified by the way I behave. ;)
[Leaving the stinking swampland of Nyissa behind, the Druid skulks]
[through the Wood of the Dryads, chocolate in hand.]
-={ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur }=-
To mail me, turn the "DRUID" into a "demon".
shanno...@my-dejanews.com
sparr...@singpost.com wrote:
<snip>
> Oh, yes... Vanan, how'd you get 9 or 10 months? The closest I can come up
> with is that Garion started getting a beard sometime around the little
> debacle in Nyissa, and Ce' was 16 when she presented herself in the Hall of
> the Rivan King... but how much time elapsed between those two events? ISTR
> there being a mention of Garion's age when the whole quest began, but am
> too lazy to go dig around in my book cupboard now...
>
> --
> - Cho-Hag (who, incidentally, is back and apologises for not announcing his
> temporary departure in advance. Then again, it left a free spot for someone
> on the Top Posters board... :) )
Actually I thought Garion and Ce'Nedra were only a few months apart(3-4 at
most). After all Garion turned 16 on Erestide, Ce'Nedra *proposed* on her
birthday ;), and the betrothal documents was hammered out BEFORE he left to
face Torak and Ce'& the Alorn kings to face Zakath& Taur Urgas. (it was a
summer campaign wasn't it?) Like I said before 3-4 months max.
Ce'Nedra
dejanews.com say:
>But I've always
>liked older men anyway.
Me too.....
[grins at various disappointed males round afe. And slaps away one
eager, grinning one...]
--
Ce'Nedra - Queen of the World, Guardian of AFE.
"A wonderful story has come to an end and you must take your leave of the
characters with whom you have shared so many adventures, whom you have loved and
admired, for whom you have hoped and feared, and without whose company life
seems empty and meaningless...."
Lyonors
<Ce'Ne...@brad-camb.demon.co.uk> writes:
[woodpixie}
>>But I've always
>>liked older men anyway.
[Ce'Nedra]
>Me too.....
Well, youre not alone there....anyone else?
Mara
>Actually I thought Garion and Ce'Nedra were only a few months apart(3-4 at
>most). After all Garion turned 16 on Erestide, Ce'Nedra *proposed* on her
>birthday ;), and the betrothal documents was hammered out BEFORE he left to
>face Torak and Ce'& the Alorn kings to face Zakath& Taur Urgas. (it was a
>summer campaign wasn't it?) Like I said before 3-4 months max.
between this and Ce's proposal:
they make it down to nyissa,
back up to the vale via maragor, along to ulgo,
dump ce' there while everyone partys on down to cthokmurgos,
then return to riva via ulgo and zubrette, picking up ce'
and arrive two days before her birthday.
This I think is about 7 months.
Also in BtS I got the impression that ce'Vanne got pregnant just
before Ildera dropped the sprog so that would make more 7 months
Mara
>[woodpixie}
>>>But I've always
>>>liked older men anyway.
>[Ce'Nedra]
>>Me too.....
>Well, youre not alone there....anyone else?
>
Vanan
>Oh, yes... Vanan, how'd you get 9 or 10 months? The closest I can come up
>with is that Garion started getting a beard sometime around the little
>debacle in Nyissa, and Ce' was 16 when she presented herself in the Hall of
>the Rivan King... but how much time elapsed between those two events?
I honestly don't remember. I think I pieced it together from various
comments when I was first reading the series. But after reading Shannon's
comment, I thought back, and I just spent the last thirty minutes looking for a
quote that I could use. In CoW, p115, Am. pb., Polgara says "I'm sure we'll be
able to find a ship bound for Tol Honeth in the late spring or early summer.
Rivan commerce with the Empire is extensive." This quote is after Ce'Nedra's
latest round of whining about her forced trip to Riva. If her birthday is in
spring to late Spring, that'd put it somewhere between March and May. So I
guess I'll revise my estimate to an age gap of between 4 and 5 months.
Vanan
Beltarris
> >>>But I've always
> >>>liked older men anyway.
> >[Ce'Nedra]
> >>Me too.....
> >Well, youre not alone there....anyone else?
> >
******
Sometimes they are nicer then the younger ones.... but generally they
know more about different things....
Love Always,
Beltarris
(Definite fan of the older men/younger women relationships...)
Beltarris
> Also in BtS I got the impression that ce'Vanne got pregnant just
> before Ildera dropped the sprog so that would make more 7 months
>
> love Mara
>
> ' I'm not the only soul accused of hit an'run,
> Tyre tracks all across your back,
> I can see you've been having your fun.'
Mara, love, whats a sprog?
Love Always,
Beltarris
(the happy and needing-a-dictionary-on-British-slang American who is currently
residing in the Vale)
Zubrette
merits of older and younger men:
> >>>But I've always liked older men anyway.
> >>Me too.....
> >Well, youre not alone there....anyone else?
> they just re nicer aren't they
Can Zubrette make a case for the defence? :+)
--
Zubrette
... Some men are wise - some are otherwise.
Jehanneton
> Vanan wrote:
> <snip>Oh, yes... Vanan, how'd you get 9 or 10 months? The closest I can come up
> with is that Garion started getting a beard sometime around the little
> debacle in Nyissa, and Ce' was 16 when she presented herself in the Hall of
> the Rivan King... but how much time elapsed between those two events? ISTR
> there being a mention of Garion's age when the whole quest began, but am
> too lazy to go dig around in my book cupboard now...
Garion is fourteen when they leave Faldor's and had his fifteenth birthday at sea
between Cherek & Sendaria- that's between PoP & QoS (The sword he had was "one of
several gifts he had received for his birthday which had passed while they were at
sea" QoS). We know his birthday is Erastide, so the next Erastide is the day the
Orb is returned to the pommel of Garion's sword in Riva (Polgara "The Orb *has* to
be in Riva by Erastide" CoW). We aso know that Erastide is around mid-winter.
Ce'Nedra is fifteen or almost when she joins the party (Ran Borune "Ce"Nedra's 16th
birthday is only a year or so away" MG). She has to present herself in the Hall of
the Rivan King on her sixteenth birthday and in Castle of Wizardry it says that
Garion had awaited that time with trepidation and that it was spring. So, as far
as I can make out, they're only about three months apart in age. Sorry I don't
have proper text references to back this up (I'm too lazy to go downstairs to leaf
through my copies), but it's something I went through many times when I first
started reading the books. I *like* to know how old my characters are....
Jehanneton (she of no sig... )
Beltarris
Zubrette wrote:
********
After leaping into a pile of hay looks to Zubrette and nods.
I would love to hear your case for the younger gents!
Love Always,
Beltarris
Zith (Gillian Howe)
Cho-Hag <cho...@stronghold.algaria.gov> say:
>Vanan wrote:
>> Shannon wrote:
>> >Does anyone else wonder if there is a ... uh ... healthly age gap between DE
>> >respective ages of any couple there is always a rather large age difference
>> <snip>
><doublesnip>
>
>
welcome back dear I missed you
>--
>- Cho-Hag (who, incidentally, is back and apologises for not announcing his
>temporary departure in advance. Then again, it left a free spot for someone
>on the Top Posters board... :) )
>
>
_____Zith_____
--== Zith (isss at) hawkswing.demon.coDOTuk ==--
Zith (Gillian Howe)
far to mutch dear and coz he is good looking two
>Love Always,
>Beltarris
Cho-Hag
> Cho-Hag wrote:
> > <snip>Oh, yes... Vanan, how'd you get 9 or 10 months?...
<anothersnip>
You know, I completely forgot that Garion's birthday fell on or near
Erastide. :| Yes, that'd be about right.
-CH
shanno...@byu.edu
This birthday is also when Barak gives him a sword/dagger (I can't remember
which) but Garion turned *15* that time. He was only 14 when they left
Faldor's.
> between this and Ce's proposal:
> they make it down to nyissa,
> back up to the vale via maragor, along to ulgo,
> dump ce' there while everyone partys on down to cthokmurgos,
> then return to riva via ulgo and zubrette, picking up ce'
> and arrive two days before her birthday.
Garion is in the Citadel for *his* birthday. Remember the LP greeting him as
BELgarion in the baths of the citadel? And then of course thats the first
time he picks up the sword of the Rivan King. Ce'Nedra ran screaming from
the room when she realized what that meant, IIRC ;). But this is when he
turns *16*.
> This I think is about 7 months.
>
> Also in BtS I got the impression that ce'Vanne got pregnant just
> before Ildera dropped the sprog so that would make more 7 months
This I'm not sure about. Said to admit I've only read BtS once.
deb....@miami.edu
shanno...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <199808032255...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> va...@aol.com (Vanan) wrote:
> > Shannon wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> > Am I missing something here? They're less than a year apart. (I think
its
> > about 9 or 10 months, actually.)
> >
> > Vanan
> >
>
> No, I meant that Garion and Ce'Nedra were like Mandorallen and Nerina -- No
> real age difference. Sorry to confuse!
>
You know I was thinking that those couples who had less age difference seemed
to have problems written about in the books at least. I wonder how much of
an age difference there was between Barak and Maslade (spelling went out of
my head).
Woodpixie
deb....@miami.edu
Spr...@lineone.net wrote:
>
> >[woodpixie}
> >>>But I've always
> >>>liked older men anyway.
> >>Me too.....
> >Well, youre not alone there....anyone else?
> >
> they just re nicer aren't they
>
deb....@miami.edu
I was reclining in my tree when I hear an echo in the woods:
Beltarris <drago...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > [woodpixie}
> > >>>But I've always
> > >>>liked older men anyway.
> > >[Ce'Nedra]
> > >>Me too.....
> > >Well, youre not alone there....anyone else?
> > >
>
> ******
> Sometimes they are nicer then the younger ones.... but generally they
> know more about different things....
>
like....dancing. ;-)
Lyonors
Howe)) writes:
> The ladies had gathered in the barn to discuss the relative
>>> merits of older and younger men:
>>>
>>> > >>>But I've always liked older men anyway.
>>> > >>Me too.....
>>> > >Well, youre not alone there....anyone else?
>>> > they just re nicer aren't they
>>>
>>> Can Zubrette make a case for the defence? :+)
>>> --
>>> Zubrette
>>> ... Some men are wise - some are otherwise.
>>
>> ********
>>After leaping into a pile of hay looks to Zubrette and nods.
>>I would love to hear your case for the younger gents!
>>
> mine is yonger than me because older men fuss
> far to mutch dear and coz he is good looking two
>
>>Love Always,
>>Beltarris
> _____Zith_____
I agree that younger men have their _uses_...Ive dated a few here and
there...and the definitly do *fuss* alot....older men just seem to be more
corteous...or mabye thats just my experiences....
wood...@my-dejanews.com
lyo...@aol.com (Lyonors) wrote:
> In article <35c83429...@news.demon.co.uk>, Zith@hawkswing (Zith (Gillian
> Howe)) writes:
>
> > The ladies had gathered in the barn to discuss the relative
> >>> merits of older and younger men:
> >>>
> >>> > >>>But I've always liked older men anyway.
> >>> > >>Me too.....
> >>> > >Well, youre not alone there....anyone else?
> >>> > they just re nicer aren't they
> >>>
> >>> Can Zubrette make a case for the defence? :+)
> >>> --
> >>> Zubrette
> >>> ... Some men are wise - some are otherwise.
> >>
> >> ********
> >>After leaping into a pile of hay looks to Zubrette and nods.
> >>I would love to hear your case for the younger gents!
> >>
> > mine is yonger than me because older men fuss
> > far to mutch dear and coz he is good looking two
> >
> >>Love Always,
> >>Beltarris
> > _____Zith_____
> I agree that younger men have their _uses_...Ive dated a few here and
> there...and the definitly do *fuss* alot....older men just seem to be more
> corteous...or mabye thats just my experiences....
>
discussion.
Mara
>This birthday is also when Barak gives him a sword/dagger (I can't remember
>which) but Garion turned *15* that time. He was only 14 when they left
>Faldor's.
>
>> between this and Ce's proposal:
>> they make it down to nyissa,
>> back up to the vale via maragor, along to ulgo,
>> dump ce' there while everyone partys on down to cthokmurgos,
>> then return to riva via ulgo and zubrette, picking up ce'
>> and arrive two days before her birthday.
>
>Garion is in the Citadel for *his* birthday. Remember the LP greeting him as
>BELgarion in the baths of the citadel? And then of course thats the first
>time he picks up the sword of the Rivan King. Ce'Nedra ran screaming from
>the room when she realized what that meant, IIRC ;). But this is when he
>turns *16*.
citidal....wait a sec
<door slams and a foot steps running up the stairs are heard>
ok erastide is almost the second day back at riva
and ce's birthday seems to be arond the first day of spring sooo....
.....proberbly is 3 months
>> This I think is about 7 months.
I'm wrong..
Ce'Nedra
<drago...@earthlink.net> say:
>Mara wrote:
>
>> Also in BtS I got the impression that ce'Vanne got pregnant just
>> before Ildera dropped the sprog so that would make more 7 months
>>
>>
>> ' I'm not the only soul accused of hit an'run,
>> Tyre tracks all across your back,
>> I can see you've been having your fun.'
>
Rug-rat. :)
Kid, toddler, brat, whatever. :)
(aka sproglet)
I have absolutely no idea where this word comes from...
--
Ce'Nedra - who *loves* the expression "dropped a sprog". :)
Ghworg
> >and LE.
>
>
> I feel the need to coment on this idea...Coming from a relationship with a
> *healthy* age gap, this makes sense...everyone tells you, "OH MY!!! the age
> difference!!! Isnt he just *too* old for you??" one feels the need to justify
> it at every turn, so this might just be entirely subconscious...I catch myself
> justifying when I really dont need to, only because I am *super-paranoid*
Super-paranoid? Your paranoia travels faster than a speeding
bullet, can leap tall buildings in a single bound.
Or do you mean that you think everyone is out to get you with their
special super-powers?
--
Ghworg - Troll God of Kill
Email ghw...@kinsey.u-net.com
Ghworg
> Ce'Nedra touched her fingers to her amulet, and heard woodpixie@my-
> dejanews.com say:
> >But I've always
> >liked older men anyway.
>
> Me too.....
How about old Troll-Gods?
> [grins at various disappointed males round afe. And slaps away one
> eager, grinning one...]
Be nice.
Ghworg
>
> >[woodpixie}
> >>>But I've always
> >>>liked older men anyway.
> >>Me too.....
> >Well, youre not alone there....anyone else?
> >
> they just re nicer aren't they
Ghworg is NOT nice and Ghworg is oldest here. Ghworg was old when
the other God-things were born.
(His earthly incarnation isn't though).
Ce'Nedra
<ghw...@kinsey.u-net.com> say:
>On Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:07:16 +0100 the man-thing Ce'Nedra wrote
>> Ce'Nedra touched her fingers to her amulet, and heard woodpixie@my-
>> dejanews.com say:
>> >liked older men anyway.
>>
>
> How about old Troll-Gods?
Dunno. Do you know any that can tell male humans from female Dryads?
:)
>> [grins at various disappointed males round afe. And slaps away one
>> eager, grinning one...]
>
> Be nice.
I was. He likes being slapped......
Zubrette
Zubrette settled back into the pile of hay and continued the
discussion:
> The ladies had gathered in the barn to discuss the relative
> merits of older and younger men:
> > >>>But I've always liked older men anyway.
> > >>Me too.....
> > >Well, youre not alone there....anyone else?
> > they just re nicer aren't they
> Can Zubrette make a case for the defence? :+)
Despite having married an older man (by three and a half years)
I still maintain that it is so much fun teaching young boys all
about the wicked ways of the world ... ;+)
Especially when they are such *nice* young men ...
--
Madam de Zub.
CeN...@my-dejanews.com
Zubrette <zubr...@sagitta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >>>But I've always liked older men anyway.
> > > >>Me too.....
> > > >Well, youre not alone there....anyone else?
> > > they just re nicer aren't they
> > Can Zubrette make a case for the defence? :+)
> Despite having married an older man (by three and a half years)
> I still maintain that it is so much fun teaching young boys all
> about the wicked ways of the world ... ;+)
Oh, I did that too... but with an *older* man. He was a sweet innocent
sheltered 21 year old, I was a wicked little 17 year old that opened his eyes
a little.... Poor boy still hasn't gotten over me yet. *minxy-grin!*
> Especially when they are such *nice* young men ...
It never lasts...... :)
--
Ce'Nedra - revealing far too much of her personal life again!
(and really hoping above-mentioned man hasn't found this group!)
Elgon
I heard the dulcet tones of Woodpixie whose voice drew me strangely
through the forest. I was saved from enchantment by walking into a
passing tree, but her voice continued and she said...
> I'm wondering what the gentlemen/men in our group have to say about our
> discussion.
>
> Woodpixie
Personally, I'm always slightly dubious about relationships between
people where the gap is more than 20% of the age of the youngest partner
i.e. a 20yr old going out with a 23yr old is OK, whereas a 24 yr old
going out with a 32 yr old is not. Basically this comes not from personal
experience but from observation of things various people I know have done
in the past (All of my girlfriends have been in this bracket). My reasons
for this are basically that people have different priorities at different
ages - to a certain extent this can be overcome by affection and
respect...
(Sorry folks, don't believe in love. Love is a literary ideal
perpetuated by the bourgeous, middle-class medium of the novel. Okay
that's excessive and I copied it out of the David Lodge novel 'Nice Work'
to be exact, but the 'love is a literary ideal' part I do believe.
Personally I believe in mutual respect, affection, attraction and
genetics.)
...but not entirely, which will generate frictions in the relationship
over longer periods of time. The other thing is that I'm a cynic (Ha! As
if you hadn't already guessed that.) and sometimes a man isn't always
honest with the 'object of his affections' (Female AFEr's scream -
"Whad'ya mean SOMETIMES!"). And let's face it a 22yr old girlfriend for a
30yr old man is a bit of an ego trip for both parties - she gets the
'experienced' man who picks her up in his car in front of her envious
friends and he gets the woman all his friends have lusted after. She gets
to play grown ups while he gets to relieve his younger days.
Not at all bitter and twisted.
Comment away folks,
Elgon
Yanek
Wed, 05 Aug 1998 16:15:52 GMT the following news from Woodpixie to my ears:
> I wonder how much of
> an age difference there was between Barak and Maslade (spelling went out of
> my head).
Merel?
Yanek,
wood...@my-dejanews.com
In article <35c89390...@news.uni-hamburg.de>,
Yep
Woodpixie
Kamion
[re: older/younger men]
> I'm wondering what the gentlemen/men in our group have to say about our
> discussion.
I'm tempted to start a thread about older/younger women and wait for
the remarks about sexism to start ...
Or not. ;-)
I'm not qualified to comment otherwise, really ...
Kamion
--
http://gotw.home.ml.org/eddings.html
"Don't jiggle the boat," Issus warned. "The leeches are hungry
this time of year, so it's not a good time for swimming."
wood...@my-dejanews.com
Elgon <MDA9...@sheffield.ac.uk> wrote:
> Whilst stalking deer in MY forest (MYYYYY Forest....*pause* THE Forest)
> I heard the dulcet tones of Woodpixie whose voice drew me strangely
> through the forest. I was saved from enchantment by walking into a
> passing tree, but her voice continued and she said...
>
Be careful what you stalk in the forest dear, we're not all amiable.
> Personally, I'm always slightly dubious about relationships between
> people where the gap is more than 20% of the age of the youngest partner
> i.e. a 20yr old going out with a 23yr old is OK, whereas a 24 yr old
> going out with a 32 yr old is not. Basically this comes not from personal
Im 23 and I had a relationship with a 32 year old and I didn't see anything
wrong with it. We were both mature ppl I mean we're both out of school and
starting to live in the real world not college.
> (Sorry folks, don't believe in love. Love is a literary ideal
> perpetuated by the bourgeous, middle-class medium of the novel. Okay
> that's excessive and I copied it out of the David Lodge novel 'Nice Work'
> to be exact, but the 'love is a literary ideal' part I do believe.
> Personally I believe in mutual respect, affection, attraction and
> genetics.)
(Starts to choke) WHAT!!!!!!! how can you not believe in love. Does this
mean you just have affection for your family but no love for them. I mean I
know that some of us have not the greatest relationships with our families.
I for a fact don't respect my mom, not in the disrespectful kind of way but I
feel that she definitely still needs to grow up but I still love her she's my
mom. If there is love for family there must be love for spouse or
counterpart.
> ...but not entirely, which will generate frictions in the relationship
> over longer periods of time. The other thing is that I'm a cynic (Ha! As
> if you hadn't already guessed that.) and sometimes a man isn't always
> honest with the 'object of his affections' (Female AFEr's scream -
> "Whad'ya mean SOMETIMES!"). And let's face it a 22yr old girlfriend for a
> 30yr old man is a bit of an ego trip for both parties - she gets the
> 'experienced' man who picks her up in his car in front of her envious
> friends and he gets the woman all his friends have lusted after. She gets
> to play grown ups while he gets to relieve his younger days.
Make the man a 40 or 50 yr old and then I'll agree with you
Woodpixie
who believes in love
shanno...@byu.edu
Elgon <MDA9...@sheffield.ac.uk> wrote:
> Personally I believe in mutual respect, affection, attraction and
> genetics.)
How exactly would you define *love*. It seems to be that you've covered
*most* (not all) of what comprises love, except for the genetics thing (oh,
are my biases showing again? Excuse me a moment). Or is it just the word you
don't like ;)
Shannon
> Elgon
Martin Stribblehill
Ce'Nedra wrote:
> Ce'Nedra touched her fingers to her amulet, and heard Ghworg
> <ghw...@kinsey.u-net.com> say:
> >On Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:07:16 +0100 the man-thing Ce'Nedra wrote
> >> Ce'Nedra touched her fingers to her amulet, and heard woodpixie@my-
> >> dejanews.com say:
> >> >But I've always
> >> >liked older men anyway.
> >>
> >> Me too.....
> >
> > How about old Troll-Gods?
>
> Dunno. Do you know any that can tell male humans from female Dryads?
The subject of telling the female man-thing from the male man-thing has always been
a difficult issue in the Trollish Orthodox Church. Eventually, we reached a
conclusion:
Female man-thing tastes better.
Zoka found another difference, apparently, involving some other test: but we didn't
understand him.
Ghnomb
Lexicographer - define thyself.
Doroon
this missive from Ce'Nedra
>>
>>Mara, love, whats a sprog?
>
>Rug-rat. :)
>Kid, toddler, brat, whatever. :)
>(aka sproglet)
>
>I have absolutely no idea where this word comes from...
>
It was originally RAF slang for "recruit". The two theories as to the origin of
the word are:
1) A reversed portmanteau form of "frog spawn" or
2) A rrecruits confusing of the words "sprocket" and "cog"
--
Doroon
Walker
Walker ducks as an arrow thunks into a tree.
Fortunately it's only a message from wood...@my-dejanews.com...
>I'm wondering what the gentlemen/men
Be Nice. :)
> in our group have to say about our
>discussion.
It's interesting to note that you always hear of men preferring older
women, men preferring younger women, and women preferring older men. But
I've never once heard of a woman who preferred younger men. I'm not
talking about that twee little "stamina" joke that is always wheeled out
during conversations like this. I think it's a lot harder for a guy to
attract the attention of an older woman, harder than it would be if the
positions were reversed, but then, I guess women always have the
advantage when it comes to attracting attention.
But all that only applies at the younger end of the scale, the
importance of age decreases as you go along. I think it makes a big
difference when, for example, it's an 18 year old and a 21 year old. I'd
say that if you're both beyond 20-ish, the difference doesn't show too
much. My reasoning would be that, by the time you get to that point in
life, you've had enough freedom to have settled into the character you
will have for the rest of your life. Time makes very little change to
the foundations of a person after that. IMHO.
Anyway, we've had Zubby's rant now you've had me getting involved in a
personal thread, sheesh, must be something to do with all this sun we're
having...
[Leaving the stinking swampland of Nyissa behind, the Druid skulks]
[through the Wood of the Dryads, chocolate in hand.]
-={ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur }=-
To mail me, turn the "DRUID" into a "demon".
Ce'Nedra
>In article <35C9AB...@sheffield.ac.uk>,
> Elgon <MDA9...@sheffield.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Personally I believe in mutual respect, affection, attraction and
>> genetics.)
>
>How exactly would you define *love*.
Errr, didn't we do this one fairly recently?
I'd better not post my definition again, as it seemed to upset so many
people last time. :)
--
Ce'Nedra
Stribblehill <martin.st...@which.net> say:
>
>
>Ce'Nedra wrote:
>> Dunno. Do you know any that can tell male humans from female Dryads?
>
>The subject of telling the female man-thing from the male man-thing has always
>been
>a difficult issue in the Trollish Orthodox Church. Eventually, we reached a
>conclusion:
>
>Female man-thing tastes better.
Obviously. They smell better too. :)
But how do you tell female man-thing from female-Dryad?
Let me guess... it takes two Dryads to make a mouthful. ;)
>Zoka found another difference, apparently, involving some other test: but we
>didn't
>understand him.
*grin*
Adara
>I'm tempted to start a thread about older/younger women and wait for
>the remarks about sexism to start ...
>Or not. ;-)
>I'm not qualified to comment otherwise, really ...
Since when did that have anything to do with whether
or not someone posted something? :)
Adara of Algaria
.sig lost in the maze of the Stronghold
Teut
>>
>I'm wondering what the gentlemen/men in our group have to say about our
>discussion.
>
>Woodpixie
>
Most of the sensible ones are staying well out of it ::grin::
I think that there can be too big an age gap but count it in decades
rather than years. As long as both parties are mature adults then
::shrug:: it ain't anybody else business, is it?
--
Teut (whose only claim to knowing what he's talking about is going
out with a 22 yr old once, when I was 18)
Te...@mcmail.com - the reply-to address will need changing, I'm afraid
AOL users can IM at Flypery but it's *NOT* an E-Mail address
http://www.thebusstop.mcmail.com
Poledra
Walker <Wal...@shannara.DRUID.co.uk> wrote:
> It's interesting to note that you always hear of men preferring older
> women, men preferring younger women, and women preferring older men. But
> I've never once heard of a woman who preferred younger men.
What about that woman who can't keep away from her 13-year-old boyfriend,
despite having been taken to court, etc?
Most of the time though you're right. Maybe a year or two - my cousin's
wife is three years older than he is.
However, many years ago when I was a lot younger than I am now (what a
surprise!) I did a lot of hill-walking, and occasionally went to dances if
there was one near where I was camped in our 'local' glen. After a few
months however I stopped going; I found that the men in my age group
wanted to dance with the 15-to-18-year-old girls and it was the 15-18-year
old boys who wanted to dance with the older women (I was about 30 at the
time.) Wanted to, not just had to because the older men had bagged the
teenage girls. Quite frankly, it was baby-snatching.
I'm not saying that I would have felt the same way if those boys had been
as mature as the teenage participants in this ng seem to be, but none of
them could sustain any sort of conversation.
A girl can get away with sounding dumb (some men like 'em that way, and
I've known some very intelligent girls who made a hobby out of sounding as
if they didn't have one wit to rub against the inside of their skulls) but
a boy usually can't.
Poledra
to email change bluewolf to sheilac
--
blue...@argonet.co.uk
Imagination is much more important than knowledge
Mara
>But all that only applies at the younger end of the scale, the
>importance of age decreases as you go along. I think it makes a big
>difference when, for example, it's an 18 year old and a 21 year old. I'd
>say that if you're both beyond 20-ish, the difference doesn't show too
>much. My reasoning would be that, by the time you get to that point in
>life, you've had enough freedom to have settled into the character you
>will have for the rest of your life. Time makes very little change to
>the foundations of a person after that. IMHO.
18 and 21 isn't to bad but if it was 18 and 15 ....
Beldaran
Mara saying:
> >Actually I thought Garion and Ce'Nedra were only a few months apart(3-4 at
> >most). After all Garion turned 16 on Erestide, Ce'Nedra *proposed* on her
> >birthday ;), and the betrothal documents was hammered out BEFORE he left to
> >face Torak and Ce'& the Alorn kings to face Zakath& Taur Urgas. (it was a
> >summer campaign wasn't it?) Like I said before 3-4 months max.
> but esratide was the end of PoP,(when he gets amulet).
> between this and Ce's proposal:
> they make it down to nyissa,
> back up to the vale via maragor, along to ulgo,
> dump ce' there while everyone partys on down to cthokmurgos,
> then return to riva via ulgo and zubrette, picking up ce'
> and arrive two days before her birthday.
> This I think is about 7 months.
>
> Also in BtS I got the impression that ce'Vanne got pregnant just
> before Ildera dropped the sprog so that would make more 7 months
>
I don't remember BtS saying anything at all about Ce'Nedra's birth/conception.
I remember this well, since when I was reading the part where all of Garion's
companions' births were being mentioned, I remember looking for Ce'Nedra's and
wondering why it hadn't been mentioned. I figured that this was because
Ce'Nedra was born after Garion, and things get pretty busy in BtS after Garion's
birth, so 'Grat lost this fact in his narrative.
As to when Erastide occurred in the Bel--two Erastides pass before Ce'Nedra's
proposal. The first one occurs between the end of PoP and the beginning of QoS
(In the first chapter of QoS, when Garion and co. are waiting at Vo Wacune,
Garion's Erastide gifts are mentioned, saying that the holiday had passed while
they were at sea). It is also mentioned later that this particular Erastide is
also Garion's 15th birthday. Then the journey to Nyissa takes place, followed
by the trips to the Vale, Ulgoland, Cthol Murgos, and Algaria. By the time to
get to Riva, another whole year has passed, and it's Erastide again (Garion's
16th birthday). Approximately 3 months later (the first day of Spring),
Ce'Nedra's 16th birthday rolls around, and the proposal takes place. By my best
estimate, this makes Garion about 3 months older than Ce'Nedra.
Oh, BTW, thanks to whoever posted the initial message on age differences. I
made the same observation myself (i.e.--that there are a whole *lot* of couple
in Eddings where the age difference is great).
--
_______________________________________________________________________
Beldaran, (you know, that *other* Rivan Queen!) :)
To reply via e-mail, change "beldaran" to "kenyon1" and say goodbye to the
Citadel and Riva.
_______________________________________________________________________
Beldaran
> In article <199808032255...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> va...@aol.com (Vanan) wrote:
> > Shannon wrote:
> > <snip>
> > >I would even guess that Hettar (26+) is at least ten years older
> > >than Adara (15?), if not fifteen or twenty.
> >
> > I always pictured Adara as in her early twenties myself. Nineteen at
> > least.
> > Vanan
>
> Actually I was being generous in my estimate. Honestly I picture Adara 16
> maybe 17(that's probably pushing it though), very close to Garion's age at
> least. But Hettar I really picture in his early thirties, very much like
> Adrian Paul (NO I'M NOT STARTING A CASTING THREAD SO BACK AWAY FROM THE
> FLAME-THROWERS RIGHT NOW). By that I mean a dark colored man who you can
> tell has experienced quite a lot but is still *quite* attractive!
Actually, according to the birth years given in BtS, IIRC, Hettar *is* in his
early thirties at the start of the Bel (which intitially surprised me, since
I'd alway pictured him younger--maybe early to mid-twenties). Adara, however,
is described in CoW as being a few years older than Garion, and Garion is
almost 16 at the time, so I always pictured Adara as being around 18 or 19,
possibly as old as 20, but not really any older than that.
Ataraxia
|I'm wondering what the gentlemen/men in our group have to say about our
|discussion.
I'm staying out of this, and also out of the Barak thread. I don't
like to argue and fight, and I don't like to watch others do so. I'll
just keep quiet...
--
Ataraxia <atar...@psu.edu> -- Official Poet of alt.books.m-lackey
Champion of the Misunderstood
"The Light -- Invisible.
The Truth -- Impenetrable.
What joy, concealed, is never revealed."
-- Robert Miles, "A New Flower"
Aglaranna
>
>
>18 and 21 isn't to bad but if it was 18 and 15 ....
>
It lasted about 5 months, was over almost 4 years ago, and he walked
into my pub this afternoon.
That was weird - at least, it would have been if his Dad wasn't a
regular, or had a birthday tomorrow.
--
Aglaranna - Queen of Elvandar
If we can send a man to the moon, why can't we send all of them?
Lyonors
<JoBe...@russ-payne.demon.co.uk> writes:
> 18 and 24? I was 24.
> It lasted about 5 months, was over almost 4 years ago, and he walked
>into my pub this afternoon.
> That was weird - at least, it would have been if his Dad wasn't a
>regular, or had a birthday tomorrow.
>
>--
> Aglaranna -
odd that you mention that difference....I was 18 when I met him, he had turned
24 the day before...Im 19 now, and amazingly enough we are still together, even
if he is in Texas and I am in Pennsylvania....I consider this long mind you, I
havent ever had a relationship last this long...I tend to get *bored*
quickly...*sheepish grin*
*******
Lyonors
"Royalty isn't allowed to hide--at least not once it has declared itself."
ICQ: 12341657
Lyo...@erat.net
(to mail, make the duchy A O L)
Toth
calculus with these bold words:
>18 and 21 isn't to bad but if it was 18 and 15 ....
How about 18 and 13?
Not me, but someone I know personally...
-->Toth [Who doesn't really know what he is talking about since he has
never even asked a girl out, let alone had a girlfriend..]
to mail me change my alias to tismith and the home
of Cyradis (ie: k e l l) to geocities
http://members.xoom.com/torlboth
Magus
Deep within the reaches of CyberSpace, there came into being a post
from Poledra <blue...@argonet.co.uk> saying;
<snip>
>However, many years ago when I was a lot younger than I am now (what a
>surprise!) I did a lot of hill-walking, and occasionally went to dances if
>there was one near where I was camped in our 'local' glen. After a few
>months however I stopped going; I found that the men in my age group
>wanted to dance with the 15-to-18-year-old girls and it was the 15-18-year
>old boys who wanted to dance with the older women (I was about 30 at the
>time.) Wanted to, not just had to because the older men had bagged the
>teenage girls. Quite frankly, it was baby-snatching.
You know, there may be a rather simple logic behind this. As a norm,
females of any species live longer than the male. Something about the
males having to support mor ebody weight and having to exert
themselves more, especially during mating system. Of course, in
certain species, it may also be because the female eats the male.
Whatever the case may be, bagging older women might even that out a
little.
I'm not thinking too coherently right now. Maybe it's because I'm
recovering from a Maths exam.
Magic advanced enuff is indistinguishible from science
(Apologies to the great Arthur C. Clarke)
remove the elenia from my address
Mara
>>
>>18 and 21 isn't to bad but if it was 18 and 15 ....
>
>
>How about 18 and 13?
>
>Not me, but someone I know personally...
ooooeckkk....
That could be eligal....
but if that was 18 and 23 it wouldn't be so bad.
strange that....
Bernadette/Taiba
matters by to...@kell.com (Toth) who wrote:
>
>How about 18 and 13?
>
>Not me, but someone I know personally...
>
>-->Toth [Who doesn't really know what he is talking about since he has
> never even asked a girl out, let alone had a girlfriend..]
> to mail me change my alias to tismith and the home
> of Cyradis (ie: k e l l) to geocities
> http://members.xoom.com/torlboth
Can you spell S-T-A-T-U-A-T-O-R-Y R-A-P-E and C-A-R-N-A-L
K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E ? Or J-A-I-L-B-A-I-T ?
Last I knew, 13 years old is below the legal Age of Consent in most
so-called civilized countries... even if the 13 year old did give
consent or initiated the relationship... Even if nothing physcial is
happening between them, the 18 year old could end up charged with a
crime if someone wanted to press charges...
Taiba
Still busy with the kids, but not too busy for AFE!
Ce'Nedra
<to...@kell.com> say:
>How about 18 and 13?
>
>Not me, but someone I know personally...
*That's* disturbing... no matter which gender is the 13 year old.
--
Ce'Nedra - Queen of the World, Guardian of AFE.
"Tear down the walls I've yet to build...."
Ce'Nedra
<Ma...@MarAmon.gov.Maragor> say:
>ooooeckkk....
>That could be eligal....
>but if that was 18 and 23 it wouldn't be so bad.
>strange that....
Not really. It's all to do with the ratio...
(quote from Anfor Ali, uk.people.gothic, taken without his permission..)
"The reason is as follows:
For example, let's say that I am 6 years older than you. So, when you
were three, I was nine,
three times your age. When you were six, I was twelve, now I'm only
twice
your age. At 24 I'm now only 25% older than you."
It's all to do with ratios really. :)
The older you are, the smaller the age gap is compared to how long
you've lived....
Belsambar
<35cc63a6...@news.ptdprolog.net>...
> >How about 18 and 13?
> Can you spell S-T-A-T-U-A-T-O-R-Y R-A-P-E and C-A-R-N-A-L
> K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E ? Or J-A-I-L-B-A-I-T ?
No, but I'll just copy it from your post <g>.
> Last I knew, 13 years old is below the legal Age of Consent in most
> so-called civilized countries... even if the 13 year old did give
Correct. Over here it's 14, but only if both are under 16. For wanting to
be with a younger girl, I'd have to wait until she's 16.
> consent or initiated the relationship... Even if nothing physcial is
> happening between them, the 18 year old could end up charged with a
> crime if someone wanted to press charges...
Nope. If the younger than 14 agrees, she's free to do so, up to the point
that her parents can press charges. If they don't, nobody else can, unless
it's been done involuntarily of course.
Besides, nowadays kids are so early with things, it's frightening.
--
TTFN,
Walter
(w...@worldonline.nl)
Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes!
Walker
Walker ducks as an arrow thunks into a tree.
<Ce'Ne...@brad-camb.demon.co.uk>...
>It's all to do with ratios really. :)
Fah!
Poledra
Magus <gko...@elenia.geocities.com> wrote:
As a norm,
> females of any species live longer than the male. Something about the
> males having to support mor ebody weight and having to exert
> themselves more, especially during mating system. Of course, in
> certain species, it may also be because the female eats the male.
> Whatever the case may be, bagging older women might even that out a
> little.
I did read somewhere that among Australian aborigines it's the norm for
old men to have young wives and young men to have old wives - as a form of
birth control. Maybe any Australians in the group could comment on this?
Poledra
Ce'Nedra <Ce'Ne...@brad-camb.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Ce'Nedra touched her fingers to her amulet, and heard Toth
> <to...@kell.com> say:
> >How about 18 and 13?
> >
> *That's* disturbing... no matter which gender is the 13 year old.
I'd agree. The 13-year-old is jailbait whichever way you look at it; the
18-year-old will have to be -very- careful!
Simon Nickerson
cotton socks) had been causing a stir with these remarks:
>Last I knew, 13 years old is below the legal Age of Consent in most
>so-called civilized countries... even if the 13 year old did give
Certainly - 'age of consent' implies the age at which someone is
considered responsible enough to be able to give consent.
> Even if nothing physcial is
>happening between them, the 18 year old could end up charged with a
>crime if someone wanted to press charges...
What crime? If there is nothing physical happening between them,
then neither assault nor rape has occurred. Is there an age of
consent for showing affection?
--
Simon N. (High Priest of Happy Bunnies)
Please say 'shoo' nicely to any happy bunnies in my e-mail address.
Oppose rabbit culling on the South Downs
Simon Nickerson
socks) had been causing a stir with these remarks:
>>
>>Not me, but someone I know personally...
>
>*That's* disturbing... no matter which gender is the 13 year old.
Why do you find that disturbing? If all you know is the ages of the
two people concerned, how can you make a judgement like that? After
all, the 13-year old might be very mature for his/her age, and
the 18-year old might be a little immature for her/his age.
Toth
calculus with these bold words:
>>
>>Not me, but someone I know personally...
>
>*That's* disturbing... no matter which gender is the 13 year old.
The male was/is the 13 year old...
He's still in primary school, and the girl is in Senior at high
school...
-->Toth ICQ: 2984993
Toth
calculus with these bold words:
>
>K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E ? Or J-A-I-L-B-A-I-T ?
Easy on Taiba, I never said that I condoned what they were doing, I
was just letting you guys and gals know of something that was going
on...
Gort
Ce'Nedra wrote:
> Ce'Nedra touched her fingers to her amulet, and heard Toth
> <to...@kell.com> say:
> >How about 18 and 13?
> >
> >Not me, but someone I know personally...
>
> *That's* disturbing... no matter which gender is the 13 year old.
>
Bearing in mind that Juliet was supposed to be a mere 13 years old, but
has long been cited as one of the ideals of romantic love from
literature. My own parents have a five-year age gap, and have been
married since my mother was 21 and my father 26, and had know each other
for 4 to 5 years before that. Assuming the two people Toth mentioned
stay together for another 3 years they're then the same ages as my own
parents were when they met. It all comes down to how responsible they
are and how th epeople around them act towards them.
--
Semper in excreto; solum profundo variat
Ce'Nedra
<gr...@gort.globalnet.co.uk> say:
>
>
> Bearing in mind that Juliet was supposed to be a mere 13 years old, but
>has long been cited as one of the ideals of romantic love from
>literature.
Poledra
Gort <gr...@gort.globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Bearing in mind that Juliet was supposed to be a mere 13 years old, but
> has long been cited as one of the ideals of romantic love from
> literature.
Yes, but it was the norm in mediaeval times for girls to be married at
12/13, and often the groom was much the same age too. Usually though they
went back home afterwards and stayed with their parents until they were
about 18; -then- they set up house together.
Ce'Nedra
<Si...@sigma.demon.co.happy.bunnies.uk> say:
>A frolicsome rabbit mentioned to me that Ce'Nedra (bless his cotton
>socks) had been causing a stir with these remarks:
>>>
>>>Not me, but someone I know personally...
>>
>>*That's* disturbing... no matter which gender is the 13 year old.
>
>two people concerned, how can you make a judgement like that?
I'm not a psychologist. I don't know why my brain makes the decisions it
does. ;)
But it just *is* disturbing, to me at least. One of them has barely
reached puberty, and the other is legally adult.
> After
>all, the 13-year old might be very mature for his/her age, and
>the 18-year old might be a little immature for her/his age.
Oh, they might be, or they might just *think* they are.
But still, for both their sakes, I hope their relationship stays at the
'holding hands' stage (for want of a better euphemism) for another 3 or
so years...
I believe some things shouldn't be rushed in to, and 13 is rushing
it.... it'd be a shame if what is reportedly genuine affection between
the two now, later turns into accusations of one having taken advantage
of the others youth and inexperience.....
But *shrug* I don't know them. It's not my place to offer advice.
I just remember how huge an age gap a *year* seemed when I was at
school, even between platonic friends. But 5 years between school
sweethearts?
Maybe it's just the culture I live in....
Mara
>
>I did read somewhere that among Australian aborigines it's the norm for
>old men to have young wives and young men to have old wives - as a form of
>birth control. Maybe any Australians in the group could comment on this?
In some tibet/ himilayan cultures it is normal for one woman to have
upwards of seven husbands...
...now thats feminisim
love Mara
' I'm not the only soul accused of hit an'run,
Tyre tracks all across your back,
I can see you've been having your fun.'
Mara
>
>What crime? If there is nothing physical happening between them,
>then neither assault nor rape has occurred. Is there an age of
>consent for showing affection?
I think there is something like peversion of a minor,
or hav i been watching too many jerry springer's?
Alison
Poledra wrote in message <48727ea8...@argonet.co.uk>...
>I did read somewhere that among Australian aborigines it's the norm for
>old men to have young wives and young men to have old wives - as a form of
>birth control. Maybe any Australians in the group could comment on this?
I really have no idea about this. I'm pretty sure they had arranged
marriages between tribes, but I really don't know too much at all. I just
had to comment on this, being Australian.
I think, however, I'll have a bit of a r&r (rant and rave) about history in
Australian schools- or at least my school.
You start in primary school where you do ancient Egypt and Rome 2 or 3 times
(I did it three times) and the First fleet (Settlement of Australia by the
English) twice- completely ignoring aborigines or anything world related or
after 1900. Then in High school you start with the First Fleet again,
followed by women's issues (since it's a girls school) and then aboriginal
issues that started after European settlement- noting about before of
course. Then you do ancient civilisations again, then a fair bit about Asia,
then they learn all the states in the USA and all about the American-
Indians. Meanwhile I've dropped history since it isn't a compulsory subject,
and I'm just so sick of it. Maybe it's worse in other places. We don't learn
anything about Aboriginal culture, even though there are still aborigines
living the traditional way in Australia. Well enough of that. Believe it or
not though, I actually like History- just not the way it's taught at our
school.
All IMHO of course- I hope I haven't offended an enthusiastic history
teacher.
Alison
Jehanneton
> In article <35cc00fd...@news.tm.net.my>,
> Magus <gko...@elenia.geocities.com> wrote:
> As a norm,
> > females of any species live longer than the male. Something about the
> > males having to support mor ebody weight and having to exert
> > themselves more, especially during mating system. Of course, in
> > certain species, it may also be because the female eats the male.
>
> > Whatever the case may be, bagging older women might even that out a
> > little.
>
> I did read somewhere that among Australian aborigines it's the norm for
> old men to have young wives and young men to have old wives - as a form of
> birth control. Maybe any Australians in the group could comment on this?
Um... This is embarrassing to admit, but I am completely ignorant of this
facet of Aboriginal culture...
Jehanneton (she of no sig... who is supposed to have completed cultural
awareness training)
Jehanneton
> Ce'Nedra wrote:
>
> > Ce'Nedra touched her fingers to her amulet, and heard Toth
> > <to...@kell.com> say:
> > >How about 18 and 13?
> > >
> > >Not me, but someone I know personally...
> >
> > *That's* disturbing... no matter which gender is the 13 year old.
> >
>
> Bearing in mind that Juliet was supposed to be a mere 13 years old, but
> has long been cited as one of the ideals of romantic love from
> literature. My own parents have a five-year age gap, and have been
> married since my mother was 21 and my father 26, and had know each other
> for 4 to 5 years before that. Assuming the two people Toth mentioned
> stay together for another 3 years they're then the same ages as my own
> parents were when they met. It all comes down to how responsible they
> are and how th epeople around them act towards them.
In my mind it has less to do with age than with emotional maturity. But I
am yet to find *any* thirteen year old who is emotionally mature enough to
make a sound decision about love. Heck, I'm nearly thirty and have been in
a secure relationship for seven years and *I* still suffer from emotional
trauma. A thirteen year old might *think* he/she knows what they want out
of a relationship, but at that age they haven't experienced enough of life
to really know what a relationship encompasses. Most 18 year olds (and again
I'm generalising because it's not really age, but how much life they have
experienced that makes the difference) suffer from the same problems, but by
that time they should have developed enough sense to realise that someone
that's still in primary school has a lot more to learn.
Am I making any sense here? :-)
Jehanneton (she of no sig...)
Aglaranna
>
>In some tibet/ himilayan cultures it is normal for one woman to have
>upwards of seven husbands...
>...now thats feminisim
>
Alison
Jehanneton wrote in message <35CE1AB5...@ozemail.com.au>...
>> > >How about 18 and 13?
>> > >
>> > >Not me, but someone I know personally...
>> >
>> > *That's* disturbing... no matter which gender is the 13 year old.
>In my mind it has less to do with age than with emotional maturity. But I
>am yet to find *any* thirteen year old who is emotionally mature enough to
>make a sound decision about love. Heck, I'm nearly thirty and have been in
>a secure relationship for seven years and *I* still suffer from emotional
>trauma. A thirteen year old might *think* he/she knows what they want out
>of a relationship, but at that age they haven't experienced enough of life
>to really know what a relationship encompasses. Most 18 year olds (and
again
>I'm generalising because it's not really age, but how much life they have
>experienced that makes the difference) suffer from the same problems, but
by
>that time they should have developed enough sense to realise that someone
>that's still in primary school has a lot more to learn.
>
>Am I making any sense here? :-)
You're making a lot of sense, actually. Being young myself I don't know
anyone that emotionally mature. At thirteen, many relationships were still
games on slips of paper, *secret *love** letters, crushes etc. and any
others were more of a status symbol it seems. That's just from my experience
of observing other 'couples'. There are probably some exceptions floating
around. One of the stories always in magazines was about a thirty-something
woman, married with two kids and a teacher who had a sexual relationship
with a thirteen year old student. She got arrested and was later released on
the condition that she didn't see him again, only to get pregnant sometime
later. Can't remember the exact details. Only a magazine story, but still
pretty disturbing.
Alison- who wonders why she read the story in the first place.
wood...@my-dejanews.com
In article <35ceec21...@news.cqhinet.net.au>,
to...@kell.com wrote:
> Mara <Ma...@MarAmon.gov.Maragor> has drawn me from my fun and
> calculus with these bold words:
>
> >>importance of age decreases as you go along. I think it makes a big
> >>difference when, for example, it's an 18 year old and a 21 year old. I'd
> >>say that if you're both beyond 20-ish, the difference doesn't show too
> >>much. My reasoning would be that, by the time you get to that point in
> >>life, you've had enough freedom to have settled into the character you
> >>will have for the rest of your life. Time makes very little change to
> >>the foundations of a person after that. IMHO.
> >
>
>
> Not me, but someone I know personally...
I have twin brothers who just turned 18 and they can't be more immature if
they wanted to be so most of the girls who they seem to go out with are like
14,15 years old and they seem to have the same type of mentality on the other
hand my baby brother who's 16 has a girlfried who is 18 and they are well
matched. My sister who is turning 17 was going out with a 21yr old with her
father's permission.(yes, I have a big family!)
Woodpixie
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Gort
> or hav i been watching too many jerry springer's?
Is that where a small black bird squawks "Show us yer knickers!", or
have I got the wrong end of the stick here?
Poleda
Mara <Ma...@MarAmon.gov.Maragor> wrote:
> >
> >I did read somewhere that among Australian aborigines it's the norm for
> >old men to have young wives and young men to have old wives - as a form of
> >birth control. Maybe any Australians in the group could comment on this?
> In some tibet/ himilayan cultures it is normal for one woman to have
> upwards of seven husbands...
> ...now thats feminisim
I think the men are normally related, though - brothers of cousins - and
one is the senior husband who 'doles out' the sexual favours of the wife
as he sees fit.
Sheesh, the odd bits of useless information the mind has stored, just
waiting for a trigger to release them!
Poledra
Simon Nickerson <Si...@sigma.demon.co.happy.bunnies.uk> wrote:
> A frolicsome rabbit mentioned to me that Ce'Nedra (bless his cotton
> socks) had been causing a stir with these remarks:
> >>
> >>Not me, but someone I know personally...
> >
> Why do you find that disturbing? If all you know is the ages of the
> two people concerned, how can you make a judgement like that? After
> all, the 13-year old might be very mature for his/her age, and
> the 18-year old might be a little immature for her/his age.
That's true, but a 13-year-old, even a mature one, is still a child, no
matter how much (s)he might resent the fact. I met one girl once who
everyone thought was about 18 - she seemed mature and she had the physical
development of someone well past puberty - until she threw a really
juvenile temper tantrum - and that was when we discovered she had just
passed her 13th birthday. I've known 6-year-olds who were very mature for
their age. Are you saying that because they're very mature for their age,
they're old enough to be going out with someone 5 years older?
14 I could just about accept, given that 14 was the UK school-leaving age
until roughly 50 years ago, but even then I doubt a 14-year-old is
emotionally mature enough to know lust from love, a crush, a physical
attraction, from genuine affection. The hormones haven't settled down yet.
Even for an adult, separating lust from love can be difficult.
Last century children had to grow up fast because many of them were put to
work at 5, 6 years of age (and often sacked, especially the boys, for
being too old once they hit 18 and had to get an adult wage). Then the UK
laws were changed and full-time schooling became compulsory until they
were 14, changed just after the war to 15 and subsequently to 16. The
trouble I suppose is that in today's world children are, once again but
for a different reason, no longer given the opportunity to be children for
the first 15 or so years of their lives. Advertising and the pop culture
is aimed straight at making children think it's cool to be - or at least
act - grown up. When I was 13/14, the biggest insult that could be thrown
at us at school by our classmates was that we were keen on someone.
Mostly, I think, because we -knew- we were too young to get emotionally
involved.
Today there are children who think they're on the shelf if they don't have
a boy/girl friend (of the same age, granted) by the time they're 6 or 7.
That's sad; they're losing so much of what childhood should mean.
Evarren
<jehan...@ozemail.com.au> writes:
>I'm generalising because it's not really age, but how much life they have
>experienced that makes the difference) suffer from the same problems, but by
>that time they should have developed enough sense to realise that someone
>that's still in primary school has a lot more to learn.
>
>Am I making any sense here? :-)
You know you are. :) But that last qualification is an interesting one, I
think. I'd put "wisdom" in there instead of "experience". Some people never
seem to grow up, others presumably reach that which we call maturity very
quickly. So I have to ask: if you reached it *very* young, would there be any
reason to stop you?
Of course, puberty kind of screws that whole line of argument up, doesn't
it?
And besides, I've never even *heard* of a case like that. It just seemed
*possible*... ;)
Jaycey... {:->
--
Andrew J. Shore,
Guardian of AFE and Last Defender of the Rights of Dragons.
aka Jaycey on AFE, Ender on IRC, Evarren@aol.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons - for you are crunchy, and taste good
with ketchup!" - Uni of Warwick lamppost
shanno...@byu.edu
"Alison" <jrfe...@netlink.com.au> wrote:
> Maybe it's worse in other places. We don't learn
> anything about Aboriginal culture,
Probably because that's anthropology and not history.
Right, Dom? ;)
Shannon
Poledra
> I think, however, I'll have a bit of a r&r (rant and rave) about history
> in Australian schools- or at least my school. You start in primary
> school where you do ancient Egypt and Rome 2 or 3 times (I did it three
> times) and the First fleet (Settlement of Australia by the English)
> twice- completely ignoring aborigines or anything world related or after
> 1900. Then in High school you start with the First Fleet again, followed
> by women's issues (since it's a girls school) and then aboriginal issues
> that started after European settlement- noting about before of course.
> Then you do ancient civilisations again, then a fair bit about Asia,
> then they learn all the states in the USA and all about the American-
> Indians. Meanwhile I've dropped history since it isn't a compulsory
> subject, and I'm just so sick of it. Maybe it's worse in other places.
> We don't learn anything about Aboriginal culture, even though there are
> still aborigines living the traditional way in Australia. Well enough of
> that. Believe it or not though, I actually like History- just not the
> way it's taught at our school. All IMHO of course- I hope I haven't
> offended an enthusiastic history teacher.
That sounds horrendously like the way history was taught in the UK when I
was at school. We began each year with the Stone Age, flipped quickly
through it, Bronze and Iron Ages, did a bit on the Roman occupation,
hiccuped on to 1066 (and all that) and from then on concentrated on wars
and treaties and political history and dates - utterly -boring- - and
terminated somewhere around WW1. I too dropped history.
When I was teaching, I tried to make it as unpolitical as possible in the
interests of trying to make it more interesting, but we were very limited
by the books available. (Geography was as bad. Some of the geography
books, still being sold as new, were so old they'd become history books.)
What I know of history I've learned from reading, sometimes travel books
that included a bit of history. I -like- history as it involves the way
people lived and worked. Political history is only interesting if the
stress is laid on how these events affected the common people.
Ce'Nedra
<Ma...@MarAmon.gov.Maragor> say:
>
>>
>>I did read somewhere that among Australian aborigines it's the norm for
>>old men to have young wives and young men to have old wives - as a form of
>>birth control. Maybe any Australians in the group could comment on this?
>
>In some tibet/ himilayan cultures it is normal for one woman to have
>upwards of seven husbands...
>...now thats feminisim
Now that's tiring....
Belsambar
> I'll say this for the younger men they have more stamina for things
> like....dancing. ;-)
Horizontal or vertical? ;)
--
TTFN,
Walter
(w...@worldonline.nl)
Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes!
Evarren
writes:
>That sounds horrendously like the way history was taught in the UK when I
>was at school. We began each year with the Stone Age, flipped quickly
>through it, Bronze and Iron Ages, did a bit on the Roman occupation,
>hiccuped on to 1066 (and all that) and from then on concentrated on wars
>and treaties and political history and dates - utterly -boring- - and
>terminated somewhere around WW1. I too dropped history.
Faced with the choice of history or geography GCSE... I did history. :) Of
course, IIRC we never repeated anything. Which meant that on one occasion the
other classes, with 2 years of the same material and a better teacher, cut us
to shreds in the internal exams...
That is not an excuse. I freely admit to being hopeless at both history
*and* geography. To the point that I can't find local landmarks... and I've
been living here for over 10 years... ;)
Cho-Hag
> A girl can get away with sounding dumb (some men like 'em that way, and
> I've known some very intelligent girls who made a hobby out of sounding as
> if they didn't have one wit to rub against the inside of their skulls)...
Melidere.
Just my $.02 to the age debate: yes, I do believe that mental age is more
important than physical. Yes, I've seen some relationships work out despite
(or p'raps 'cos of?) a large age gap. No, I by no means believe that this
is universal. Case-by-case is about all I can say.
--
-c.h.
Toth
calculus with these bold words:
>
>I really have no idea about this. I'm pretty sure they had arranged
>marriages between tribes, but I really don't know too much at all. I just
>had to comment on this, being Australian.
>I think, however, I'll have a bit of a r&r (rant and rave) about history in
>Australian schools- or at least my school.
>You start in primary school where you do ancient Egypt and Rome 2 or 3 times
>(I did it three times) and the First fleet (Settlement of Australia by the
>English) twice- completely ignoring aborigines or anything world related or
>after 1900. Then in High school you start with the First Fleet again,
>followed by women's issues (since it's a girls school) and then aboriginal
>issues that started after European settlement- noting about before of
>course. Then you do ancient civilisations again, then a fair bit about Asia,
>then they learn all the states in the USA and all about the American-
>Indians. Meanwhile I've dropped history since it isn't a compulsory subject,
>and I'm just so sick of it. Maybe it's worse in other places. We don't learn
>anything about Aboriginal culture, even though there are still aborigines
>living the traditional way in Australia. Well enough of that. Believe it or
>not though, I actually like History- just not the way it's taught at our
>school.
>All IMHO of course- I hope I haven't offended an enthusiastic history
>teacher.
Same sort of thing at my school.
I dropped history after junior for many reasons:
1/ Ancient history wasn't offered at my school, and taking it my
correspondence like I do maths didn't sound like fun.
2/ The modern history course only covered from the second world war to
the 1970s. Now to me ignoring 20+ years of -modern history- in what
was supposedly a modern history course made me wild.
Many/ It is always good to have many reasons backing up your
discussion.
Toby Smith: | ICQ:2984993 | Nicks: Toth, Torlboth
tis...@geocities.com or sm...@cqhinet.net.au for attachments >500kb
Personal Home Page- http://members.xoom.com/torlboth
email for public PGP key.
---------------
One summer night in a field of wheat
God's sweet lanterns hanging in the sky
Moving light on your tiny feet
I knew I had to love you till the day I die
--James Taylor, '(I've Got To) Stop Thinking 'Bout That'
Hettar
>That sounds horrendously like the way history was taught in the UK when I
>was at school. We began each year with the Stone Age, flipped quickly
>through it, Bronze and Iron Ages, did a bit on the Roman occupation,
>hiccuped on to 1066 (and all that) and from then on concentrated on wars
>and treaties and political history and dates - utterly -boring- - and
>terminated somewhere around WW1. I too dropped history.
We had teachers who went from Romans to the Russian Revolution and all the
Kings & Queens of England, We had James I, not James VI. And going by that
form of reckoning, isn't our current Queen Elizabeth I (that is RL,
Ce'Nedra).
>
>When I was teaching, I tried to make it as unpolitical as possible in the
>interests of trying to make it more interesting, but we were very limited
>by the books available. (Geography was as bad. Some of the geography
>books, still being sold as new, were so old they'd become history books.)
>
Wish I'd had you as a teacher
>What I know of history I've learned from reading, sometimes travel books
>that included a bit of history. I -like- history as it involves the way
>people lived and worked. Political history is only interesting if the
>stress is laid on how these events affected the common people.
>
I personally think that Politics is boring, now and then. My interest in
History has come about by personal choice and as a leisure activity. I
think that whatever we pursue for pleasure we will understand better (oh
dear, I'm becoming a philosopher, now how did that Monty Python song go?
Rene Descarte was a drunken fart, Plato they say could pack it away, half a
case of whisky every day, Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle
....)
Hettar, humming to himself
Mara
<snippity snip go mara's shiney sissors>
Actually I was quite pleased with my school's teaching of history
<well the first three years were pants but did learn stuff>
First year
spent first few weeks 'learning'(1) about Blessed hugh faringdon(2)
then about lots of normans and middle aged society
2nd year
spent some time 'learnig about romans and some on the formation of the
uk- interesting that learnt the were good little innecents and the
scottish were evil little buggers...
3rd year
life changed and a new history teacher came, she was quite good.
did stuff on worldwars-actually can't remember what did that year but
must have enjoyed it as i carried on for gcse's
for gcse we actually covered the industrial revolution, poverty and
poorlaws, education, slavery, women's changing roles, transport and
commuication.
quite fun, not rally deep but was fun,all in the 17-18-19th centuries
and was british.
Now i'm not good at long esay driven subjects (as you proberbly can
gues form oooooh 9 out of 10 of my postingd) but enjoyed a good
teacher for gcses and came out with a B close to a but no cigar.
anyway was quite pleased and i'm glad i did *what made britian
great*-well rather than what made the americans great or what made
britian great in 10BC (3)
oh dear i've been ranting an raving bout nothing at all......
well doesn't make much change from usal
I wonder how many people got this far???
I could just do stupid stuff now, noone would know...
(1) laerning in the first two years consisted of copying a rather
large booklet/essay the teacher had written and to get an a you had to
get speeling perfect and copy allt he little pictures he drew.
(2) you don't wnt to know!
honestly you don't!
(3) cooee i sound bit xeneophobic there...
Gort
Hettar wrote:
> (oh dear, I'm becoming a philosopher, now how did that Monty Python song go?
> Rene Descarte was a drunken fart, Plato they say could pack it away, half a
> case of whisky every day, Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle
> ....)
>
Immanuel Kant was a real pissant,
who was very rarely stable
Eidegger, Eidegger was a boozy beggar
who could think you under the table
Plato they say, could pack it away,
half a crate of whisky every day.
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
Hobbes was fond of dram,
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart,
I drink therefore I am
etc, etc - Sign of a wasted youth
Jabberwocky anyone? " Twas brillig..."
Kamion
>(oh
>dear, I'm becoming a philosopher, now how did that Monty Python song go?
>Rene Descarte was a drunken fart, Plato they say could pack it away, half a
>case of whisky every day, Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle
>....)
Ghnomb? Bagpuss? Where *are* you? ...
"Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable ..."
Kamion - kamion at earthling dot net
--
http://gotw.home.ml.org/eddings.html
"Don't jiggle the boat," Issus warned. "The leeches are hungry
this time of year, so it's not a good time for swimming."
Poledra
Hettar <Het...@coronach.algaria.co.uk> wrote:
> We had teachers who went from Romans to the Russian Revolution and all the
> Kings & Queens of England, We had James I, not James VI. And going by that
> form of reckoning, isn't our current Queen Elizabeth I (that is RL,
> Ce'Nedra).
Yes, she is (or should be). She's the second Elizabeth of England but the
first of the united kingdom. (At the time of the coronation, I remember
one group who had a flag out with the wording "Elizabeth 1.5"...)
And on the theme of royalty, I object strongly to the British national
anthem. It has to be the only one in the world that asks the Almighty to
protect one half of the population from the other half! :-)
> I personally think that Politics is boring, now and then.
There's nothing more boring, I agree.