Alam al-mithal
Tony
ALAM AL-MITHAL: the mystical world of similitudes where all physical limitations
are removed.
In the novel Dune, Paul wondered "if might be possible that his ruh-spirit had
slipped over somehow into the world where the Fremen believed he had his true
existence -- into the alam al-mithal, the world of similitudes, that
metaphysical realm where all physical limitations were removed. And he knew fear
at the thought of such a place, because removal of all limitations meant removal
of all points of reference."
Ruh-spirit was also defined in the Dune appendix:
RUH-SPIRIT: in Fremen belief, that part of the individual which is always rooted
in (and capable of sensing) the metaphysical world.
Alam al-mithal appears to be an actual Arabic word, because at least one website
provides a definition as follows:
'alam al-mithal - the world of Idea-Images (intermediate between matter and
spirit) or simulitudes; or 'alam al-khayal - the world of active imagination;
and Hadrat-al-mithal wa'l- Khayal - Presence of the Image and the active
imagination. From:
http://www.kheper.net/topics/Islamic_esotericism/Ibn_Arabi-worlds.htm
In Children of Dune, "Ghanima thought about the reflected mother-within, said:
"Our mother exists now for me in the alam al-mythal with the others, but she has
tasted the fruit of hell. Now I can listen to her without fear."
Now here's my question, and I'm soliciting speculations here, What exactly is
the alam al-mithal as described in the Dune Chronicles? Is it a place? If so,
Where is it located. Or is it just a hallucination?
Zach Edwardson
mysticism.
http://www.hermetic.com/bey/mundus_imaginalis.htm is a good detailed
explanation,
However, to put it in simple, non-mystical english, it is the islamic
concept of the place between matter and the spirit, the in-between
place (which gives a new understanding on the section where it talks
about the bene gesserit....) For Ghanima (And if I can get away with
it, I would be tempted to name a daughter that name) the key concept
is that her mother is protecting her from being a abomination, and she
can use her mother for guidance without fear of being taken over like
say, Alia.
Tony
"Zach Edwardson" <zsedw...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
> Good question Tony, I understood it after I read up on Islamic
> mysticism.
>
> http://www.hermetic.com/bey/mundus_imaginalis.htm is a good detailed
> explanation,
At took a look at this link. From what I can gather, the alam al-mithral is a
Sufi concept, and Sufism is generally understood to not be a distinct sect of
Islam, but the inner, mystical dimension of Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism
However, the idea of a place between matter and spirit is unusual, and doesn't
fit neatly into typical Judeo-Christian concepts. However, it may provide a
kind of explanatory bridge that ties together concepts such as Truthsence,
Prescience, Other Memory, Possession, and Genetic Memory.
>
> However, to put it in simple, non-mystical english, it is the islamic
> concept of the place between matter and the spirit, the in-between
> place (which gives a new understanding on the section where it talks
> about the bene gesserit....) For Ghanima (And if I can get away with
> it, I would be tempted to name a daughter that name) the key concept
> is that her mother is protecting her from being a abomination, and she
> can use her mother for guidance without fear of being taken over like
> say, Alia.
Of course, we can ask, Where is the place between matter and spirit, another
dimension, in the mind, or in the genetic code?
Stoned in Arrakeen
>What is the al al-mithal?
>
It's the mystical world of similitudes where all physical limitations
are removed.
>ALAM AL-MITHAL: the mystical world of similitudes where all physical limitations
>are removed.
>
That's right. The mystical world of similitudes where all physical
limitations are removed.
>...... where the Fremen believed he had his true
>existence -- into the alam al-mithal, the world of similitudes, that
>metaphysical realm where all physical limitations were removed.
>
Yes. Echo! Echo!!!
>What exactly is the alam al-mithal as described in the Dune Chronicles?
>
It's a small, off-duty Czechoslovakian traffic warden. Just teasing!
It's the mystical world of similitudes where all physical limitations
are removed.
>Is it a place? If so, Where is it located.
>
Yes; it's situated just down the road from Santa's grotto, next to the
elephant's graveyard just by the ferry to Atlantis and the beautiful
Isle of Avalon.
>Or is it just a hallucination?
>
Naah. That's just silly, Tones.
"If you'll be my bodyguard
I can be your long lost pal
I can call you Betty
And Betty when you call me
You can call me Al-mithal"
(� Bart Garfunkel, or whatever his name was.)
Zach Edwardson
> "Zach Edwardson" <zsedward...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
> > Good question Tony, I understood it after I read up on Islamic
> > mysticism.
>
> > explanation,
>
> At took a look at this link. From what I can gather, the alam al-mithral is a
> Sufi concept, and Sufism is generally understood to not be a distinct sect of
> Islam, but the inner, mystical dimension of Islam.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism
>
Yes, it is normally a "Sufi" concept, Sufi is most easily described as
Islamic Mysticism, which can be a Sunni, Shia, or its own little
branch. Much like spice, Islamic mystical thought is in the food,
water, and air of Dune. I am sure the (Spoiler alert for later
novels:) the Tleilaxu would understand the concept very much. One
reason why Islam is so powerful is that at it core it is so simple,
submit to god, who is simply god. Sufi thought provides the deeper
concepts for those who need deep philosophical concepts. The Sunni-
Shia split is more on who should of been in power after Muhammad.
> However, the idea of a place between matter and spirit is unusual, and doesn't
> fit neatly into typical Judeo-Christian concepts. However, it may provide a
> kind of explanatory bridge that ties together concepts such as Truthsence,
> Prescience, Other Memory, Possession, and Genetic Memory.
>
>
Some branches of Judeo-Christian have items that are somewhat alike to
this, Mormonism has the concept of the Veil that is between the
physical and spiritual world, and being "at the veil" has some
metaphysical concepts. Of course, the concept of Alam al-mithal in
detail is not the same, and it it part that does build up the entire
metaphysical concepts that flow throughout dune.
>
> Of course, we can ask, Where is the place between matter and spirit, another
> dimension, in the mind, or in the genetic code?
I am guessing in the mind, though your genetic code allows you better
access to it. Just my opinion of course.
Tony
On Feb 11, 3:56 pm, "Tony" <t...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Zach Edwardson" <zsedward...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
> > Good question Tony, I understood it after I read up on Islamic
> > mysticism.
>
> >http://www.hermetic.com/bey/mundus_imaginalis.htmis a good detailed
> > explanation,
>
> At took a look at this link. From what I can gather, the alam al-mithral is a
> Sufi concept, and Sufism is generally understood to not be a distinct sect of
> Islam, but the inner, mystical dimension of Islam.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism
>
"Yes, it is normally a "Sufi" concept, Sufi is most easily described as
Islamic Mysticism, which can be a Sunni, Shia, or its own little
branch. Much like spice, Islamic mystical thought is in the food,
water, and air of Dune. I am sure the (Spoiler alert for later
novels:) the Tleilaxu would understand the concept very much."
Some authorities would assert that the alam al-mithal "is the intermediate
between this world and the Hereafter, and between matter and spirit, and the
realm of immaterial sacred spirits. According to these considerations, the World
of Representations or Ideal Forms [other terms for the Alam al-mithal] is an
intermediate bridge over which meanings or purely spiritual identities pass in
order to attain a new identity and nature; it is a mysterious corridor between
the physical and metaphysical worlds, a veil between two different dimensions, a
point of meeting for abstract truths and concrete realities, and the horizon
that separates the perceptible and imperceptible from each other.
In addition, "all of the attributes to be manifested by beings in the corporeal
world, including conflicting ones such as light and darkness, good and evil,
bliss and wretchedness, have already been determined while they are in the World
of Representations or Ideal Forms. However, a conscious, responsible being's
nature as good and blissful or evil and wretched is determined according to his
or her future choice in this corporeal world. No one other than the All-Knowing
of the Unseen can judge them until their state becomes apparent in the corporeal
world. However, God may inform some of His "purified, chosen servants" about
their "future" states and natures while they are in the World or Realm of
Representations or "Ideal Forms" . . . .
"Some saints can at times observe the states of the archetypes plainly or in the
form of symbols as in dreams. This is a special, extraordinary favor from God to
them. God sometimes informs them about certain future events and so reminds them
of some points peculiar to them. It sometimes occurs that the Almighty sends
these heroes of self-possession some signals regarding impending dangers,
directing their hearts to prayer and supplication."
From:
However, the above descriptions are theistic in tone, and in the Dune
Chronicles, more agnostic descriptions are used. One could assert that the alam
al mithal is similar to the Platonic realm of Ideal Forms, in fact this concept
appears to be related to the Sufi idea of the alam al-mithal. For example, see:
http://www.hermetic.com/bey/mundus_imaginalis.htm
Other unique aspects of the alam al-mithal as portrayed in the Dune Chronicles
is the use of awareness spectrum narcotics to access the realm. Therefore the
challenge is to explain how Spice, genetics (ghola memory, ancestory memory),
prescience, prescient blindness, other memory, no ships, the net, racial
consciousness and interstellar navigation are all possible via the alam
al-mithal, without relying on an active god orchestrating all these phenomenon.
Speculations?