Alien Life in Dune Universe?
Joseph C. Kopec
I was wondering whether it contains much alien life whatsoever, besides
the sandworms (and I would swear I saw some suggestion in the Dune
Encyclopedia that those may have had some link to earth life). The few
examples of animal life I can come up with are derived from earth life
(perhaps with some BT genetic manipulation): the usul mouse, D-Wolves,
sligs, chairdogs, Futars, birds, bats, some insects, clams and oysters
(Odrade liked them in a soup -- though were pearl-like soothstones in
HoD and CD produced from creatures originally from earth?), fur whales.
The plant live seems more alien in origin: the various woods and
plants that had medicinal or narcotic effects, fogwood, shigawire, the
bush houses of the Scattering.
Steve Stachruski
to further develope the themes of the Dune chronicles. It also is more
timeless this way, because if he wrote it as a current novel, then the
events would seem forever in the past. A fantasy setting could also have
allowed for timelessness, but Sci-Fi was more convenient, and gave him more
freedom to discuss the issues he did
Steve (slap me if i'm wrong)
Joseph C. Kopec <kop...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3A7C7349...@att.net...
Alexander Hernandez
that one of the reasons the Great Convention existed with its
stockpiling of atomics was ti ensure mankind's mutaul protection
should a malevolent "other intelligence" ever be found.
dr...@mb.sympatico.ca
Leto the Third wrote:
> You should consider that We never got to find out exactly what The Honored
> Matres encountered in the Scattering. It is possible that they are running
> from something of alien origin.
I personally think that they came full circle, ina way, and were running from
the Old Empire, but had forgotten it.
--
DR
Lagos
Nah, they're running away from Holtzman...he backed up a copy of himself
in deep space outside the Empire's reach. Wouldn't you too if you were a
paranoid hunted piece of software? What's the last thing Holtzman said
before he faded away the last time?
Lagos
Leto the Third
terrorizing the Honored Matres. Good job Lagos.
Alexander Hernandez
foldspace engine. Maybe the Battle of Corrin ended with Holtzman
fleeing into foldspace, and without the ability of plotting a course
ala guild navigator, he lucklily ended up safely far away in the
universe and went to dominate them. I thought Holtzman was a cyborg.
Lagos
> terrorizing the Honored Matres. Good job Lagos.
oh, that's an old idea...i remember trying to convince people of that
on the prodigy newsgroup, but not enough people had access to the Dune Ency
at the time to form an opinion. I've often thought of what Willis would
think of it, as an idea only of course. <Cough>
I found myself unwilling to break copywrite laws and post Holtzman's Ency
entry. Look for the dune ency on napster. (s'a joke) I corralated all the
references that i could and it made more sense than anything else i could
surmise. (I had to do something, i saught to "know franks's mind")
isn't it interesting that when Siona had her traumatic Atreides ordeal,
that she saw machines, what's been called a T2-type scenario? Did Leto
clearly saw them during *his* ordreal in CoD? Are there machine
intelligences beyond the concievable bounds of the "known universe?" Was the
need to prepare humanity for eventual contact with these minds which were
not human worthy of Leto's sacrifice? What he saw was never disclosed to the
reader. Dar on the other hand felt the more inpending doom.
there's a saying i've heard in the star trek community (you know, the
village on the other side of the mountain) that any seficiantly advanced
technowledgy will be indistinguaiaable from magic. anything that's beyond
human comprehention enough will be too alien for the brain to absorb.
ok? right! willis spoke with frank on occcasion when compiling the Ency.
It makes sense that "Someone" out there had learned to do something
different with the Holtzman math. Who better than Holtzman himself?
(I think it's important at this point to point out that the first three
books were written as a set piece. I had been informed that he wrote GEoD
because of fan appriciation. It can be surmised that the same are true for
the next two, always leaving enough loose ends to pick up again if wishes or
health permited. )
Maybe I ought to drop Lagos and start using Holtzman....ohh....that's
hard to resist.
Lagos
> >foldspace engine. Maybe the Battle of Corrin ended with Holtzman
> >fleeing into foldspace, and without the ability of plotting a course
> >ala guild navigator, he lucklily ended up safely far away in the
> >universe and went to dominate them.
>
> Duo give us their trilogy on the Butlerian Jihad......be still my
> beating heart......
> -Jeff H.
Oh, i don't know...Star Trek was never the same after Gene died,
and when george dies, there'll be no more star wars. but that could take
years. i see too much of this old school/new school mentallity. these kids
that read the prequels and then don't like Frank's novels because they
aren't "made-for-TV" also... whoa...that about as close to a flame as i
get...
Willis E. McNelly
wrote:
On the assumption, perhaps faulty, that there is indeed intelligent life
on earth or Arrakis, as soon as possible I shall post an essay on "Alien
Life" that was cut by the publishers of the DE. It is by Dr. Walter E.
Meyers, the "WEM" who contributed so many great entries to the book. It
will be followed by a companion piece by Dr. Meyers, also cut, called "The
Crompton Ruins." I'll do it as soon as I can.
Tony
> > I did also want to mention the possibility of it being Holzman that was
> > terrorizing the Honored Matres. Good job Lagos.
>
> oh, that's an old idea...i remember trying to convince people of that
> on the prodigy newsgroup, but not enough people had access to the Dune Ency
> at the time to form an opinion. I've often thought of what Willis would
> think of it, as an idea only of course. <Cough>
>
<snip>
Yes, but what would be Holzman's motivation for driving the Honored Matres back into
the Old Empire? Also, based on the Dune Encyclopedia entries, I don't recall Holzman
terrorizing anyone. I mean, he was never actually dangerous.
Tony
Michael
>From: wmcn...@fullerton.edu (Willis E. McNelly)
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:11:43 +0000 (UTC)
>On the assumption, perhaps faulty, that there is indeed intelligent life
>on earth or Arrakis, as soon as possible I shall post an essay on "Alien
>Life" that was cut by the publishers of the DE. It is by Dr. Walter E.
>Meyers, the "WEM" who contributed so many great entries to the book. It
>will be followed by a companion piece by Dr. Meyers, also cut, called "The
>Crompton Ruins." I'll do it as soon as I can.
>
Thanks Dr. McNelly. I, and I'm sure many others, will look forward to this.
Regards,
Michael
John Kenny
"Michael" <mmar...@aol.coma> wrote in message
news:20010208213834...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
Gang,
I second Michael's opinion. The bit about the "Crompton Ruins" has always
been my favorite section in the DE. If you read the book from page one,
hitting that entry is such a shock ... it makes you reel back in your chair
and say, "WOW!"
Strange but wonderful!
--
Best regards,
John
This sad little lizard told me that he was a brontosaurus on his mother's
side. I did not laugh; people who boast of ancestry often have little else
to sustain them. Humoring them costs nothing and adds to happiness in a
world in which happiness is always in short supply.
--- Robert Heinlein
Joseph C. Kopec
There is already a "Crompton Ruins" essay by WEM in the DE, which refers
to the ruins as originally being thought of as "the only evidence of
intelligent non-human life yet to appear" but as being ultimately viewed
as a Leto-created hoax -- I take it you mean an elaboration of this.
In my earlier brief list of Dune fauna I forgot to mention the
six-legged "thorse", which the DE entry (by WM) speculates was a BT
creation.
I wonder whether the essay will address the question of why so many of
the apparently alien Dune life forms (sandworms and various flora of
Ecaz) produce substances with important psychoactive effects in humans.
PS: I much enjoy my 15-year old copy of the DE!
Daniel
news:x4Ag6.193223$ge4.66...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
<snip>
> there's a saying i've heard in the star trek community (you know, the
> village on the other side of the mountain) that any seficiantly advanced
> technowledgy will be indistinguaiaable from magic.
This is a quote from Arthur C Clarke, not Gene Rodenberry.
--
Daniel.
Samuel Sands
Michael wrote:
If I drool any further, they'll have to post a Flood WatchŽ. :^)
Sam (Say It, Don't Spray It) Sands
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
Gunnar Harboe
...and goes "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable
from magic."
I prefer "Any technology that is distinguishable from magic is
insufficiently advanced" myself. (A quick search gives this a Gregory
Benford quote.)
Bye!
Gunnar Harboe
gh...@cam.ac.uk
___
There should be a word-tension for "fated," conveying
a meaning opposite from a thing destined to be. There
should also be a garnish-tension for "parsley,"
denoting the opposite of the leafy herb. Oh, we speak
in daily discourse of "anti-parsley," but that is
another thing entire. What the word for a thing is
can consequent much.
- from "Mauve'Bib Has Ideas and Speaks Them,"
edited by the Princess Serutan
Lagos
back into
> the Old Empire? Also, based on the Dune Encyclopedia entries, I don't
recall Holzman
> terrorizing anyone. I mean, he was never actually dangerous.
Oh, I was just sticking that out there because it was interesting and
because i've waited about ten years to see what other Dunies thought of the
neat little idea. I by no means am suggesting that Herbert had any
intentions of ever doing anything with Holtzman, I was merely fascinated by
the character and thought it fit.
However, on terrorizing them, anytime you download a paranoid mad
scientist's brain into a spaceship, I worry.
Lagos
Lagos
the
> > village on the other side of the mountain) that any seficiantly advanced
> > technowledgy will be indistinguaiaable from magic.
>
> This is a quote from Arthur C Clarke, not Gene Rodenberry.
> --
> Daniel.
Ah, but I didn't say I quoted Gene, I said it was a saying I'd heard in
the star trek community (and picard said it once when he was having to
explain that he wasn't a god.) What you failed to point out however were the
several typos in the message...
(I tried to quote Clarke in another thread on a different topic, but
didn't have a copy of R with Rama. )
Lagos
Lagos
whatever, what would other uses of the Holtzman equations be? There's
instantaneous communication, shields, suspensor nullification, and those are
fine. What's next? A four-dimensional manifestation? Can we tie this in to
Master Face Dancer ability to see the net?
Lagos ( I appreciate everyone being silly with this line of
thought, I've always felt fortunate to have my Ency.)
Lagos
> It will be followed by a companion piece by Dr. Meyers, also cut, called
"The
> Crompton Ruins." I'll do it as soon as I can.
Mmm...i no doubt will appreciate that in the "silly about holtzman"
thread. i've always liked the idea of him backing himself up somewhere, and
crompton is just strange enough.
Lagos
ArsenicMan
> > >Ive considered this as well. Holtzman is credited for inventing the
> > >foldspace engine. Maybe the Battle of Corrin ended with Holtzman
> > >fleeing into foldspace, and without the ability of plotting a course
> > >ala guild navigator, he lucklily ended up safely far away in the
> > >universe and went to dominate them.
> >
> > Well...not to worry...we will find out soon enough when the Dynamic
> > Duo give us their trilogy on the Butlerian Jihad......be still my
> > beating heart......
> > -Jeff H.
>
>
> Oh, i don't know...Star Trek was never the same after Gene
died,
> and when george dies, there'll be no more star wars.
He's planning on stopping after Episode III. And there'll probably still be
EU stuff afterwards (which he doesn't care about anyways, and much of which
is better than Episode I).
> but that could take
> years. i see too much of this old school/new school mentallity. these kids
> that read the prequels and then don't like Frank's novels because they
> aren't "made-for-TV" also... whoa...that about as close to a flame as i
> get...
"In order for it to be slander it must be false."
Who here can name where that came from?
Andrew Timson
========================================
It's our last best hope for peace? We're *so* screwed.
Jeffrey MacHott
"Leto the Third" <letoth...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010207023908...@ng-me1.aol.com...
> You should consider that We never got to find out exactly what The Honored
> Matres encountered in the Scattering. It is possible that they are
running
> from something of alien origin.
I can hear it now: "Now where did we leave that massive stockpile of
thermonuclear warheads...." :*)
--
--Ragu Leader
--Eagles may soar, but Weasels never get sucked into jet engines.
Mike Bruner
Jeffrey MacHott wrote:
> "Leto the Third" <letoth...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20010207023908...@ng-me1.aol.com...
> > You should consider that We never got to find out exactly what The Honored
> > Matres encountered in the Scattering. It is possible that they are
> running
> > from something of alien origin.
>
> I can hear it now: "Now where did we leave that massive stockpile of
> thermonuclear warheads...." :*)
Nah; with all those ancestral memories floating around, somebody will wind up
being descended from a nuc engineer and use that knowledge to build their own
nukes :). More seriously, I figure nukes or some sort of WMD must exist in the
Heretics era for the Honored Matres to wipe out Dune and nobody be surprised by
this capability.
--
Mike Bruner...@delaware.infi.net
"Yes, I am a servant of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial".
Hello, my name is Bambi. You killed my mother. Prepare to die.
Nick Cassimatis
After Siona emerges from her spice-induced vision, she says something along
the lines of "They had no way to hide" from the hunting machines, after
which it comes up that Leto can't see her with his prescient vision. Since
Siona is being indoctrinated to the Golden Path, and why it is necessary, I
feel that this is definitely a future event. Siona was the target of Leto's
breeding program (he comments to the Duncan that he has achieved Siona), and
he makes some references to his impending demise soon after her testing -
some thought about how there is one more lesson he needs to teach.
--
Nick Cassimatis
It's just my opinion, but it's right!
"Lagos" <qp...@home.com> wrote in message
news:x4Ag6.193223$ge4.66...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
Jeff Harrison
<nic...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I just finished a reread of GEoD last night, so this is fresh in my mind.
>After Siona emerges from her spice-induced vision, she says something along
>the lines of "They had no way to hide" from the hunting machines, after
>which it comes up that Leto can't see her with his prescient vision. Since
>Siona is being indoctrinated to the Golden Path, and why it is necessary, I
>feel that this is definitely a future event. Siona was the target of Leto's
>breeding program (he comments to the Duncan that he has achieved Siona), and
>he makes some references to his impending demise soon after her testing -
>some thought about how there is one more lesson he needs to teach.
Does this imply to anyone else that they may be prescient hunting
machines that track humans using their prescience ability to track
them. Thus the need to breed humans that cannot be "seen".....
-Jeff H.
JP
think that there were prescient hunting machines in the future that Leto II and
Siona saw and that was why Siona genes had to propagate into the masses.. they
make people invisible to prescience and thereby remove the risk of human
extinction from the "machine hunters"
makes you think of Terminator don't it?
jp
Raveem
Raveem.