Gryphon gloaters
Ray Dean
Now, before I start, I just want to point out that I have
nothing at all against Griffins/Gryphons. I think they are an honourable
species and I admire them for that. But...
Earlier on I visited The Gryphon Guild, as I know little about
Gryphons and was curious about them, when I got there I was disgusted
and angered to see a list titled: "Ten reasons why Gryphons are better
than Dragons"
The nerve of them! I bet 90% of the have never even met a
Dragon, let alone know enough about them to be able to judge us. One of
the reasons listed was "Gryphons have better breath", what's with that?
Just because we're Dragons, we all suffer from halitosis? And how many
Gryps can breath fire, ice, plasma, smoke, or any other of our breath
weapons? Another was "Gryphons have RETRACTABLE claws as well as
talons". Oooh! Amazing! I personally have retractable claws, and I'm
sure a lot of the inhabitents of Alfandria do to.
If it sounds like I'm overeacting (which I may well be) then I'm
sorry, but I personally have enough dignity, pride and self-respect to
object to being classed as second-best to Gryphs. Like I said, I have
nothing against Gryphons as a whole, and I'm not saying we're better
than they, but that just really struck a nerve in me.
--
Bek Kodosi, who eats Gryphons for dinner <grin>
DC.D/W f s-- h+++ CMR/- a++ $++ (m) (d) WL++* Fr- L* BF/Sm e! g i! u-
76% Draconity Corrupt
KUlrich276
Zargoth Pearlsnatcher.
DC2.dGmaLw+FLBPF+rs-Fr--U+i+!h-$+meCB@g
Polenth
>Well met friends,
> Now, before I start, I just want to point out that I have
>nothing at all against Griffins/Gryphons. I think they are an honourable
>species and I admire them for that. But...
> Earlier on I visited The Gryphon Guild, as I know little about
>Gryphons and was curious about them, when I got there I was disgusted
>and angered to see a list titled: "Ten reasons why Gryphons are better
>than Dragons"
> The nerve of them! I bet 90% of the have never even met a
>Dragon, let alone know enough about them to be able to judge us.
Then you've lost your bet. Dragons are one of the more prolific species
in the guild. I'm one of them. There also are various non-dragon GG
members on the ng. They know full well what dragons are like.
> If it sounds like I'm overeacting (which I may well be) then I'm
>sorry, but I personally have enough dignity, pride and self-respect to
>object to being classed as second-best to Gryphs. Like I said, I have
>nothing against Gryphons as a whole, and I'm not saying we're better
>than they, but that just really struck a nerve in me.
You are overreacting. The gryph lists are meant humerously... and there
were dragons who helped write them. It wasn't meant to be a deadly
insult against dragons, and the dragons in the guild didn't take it as
such. The lists were written cooperatively, so different creatures came
up with different list entries. Not all are accurate, but that's because
the lists were written for fun, not to be an accurate definition.
You should read my other reply in this thread too.
--
Polenth
ICQ UIN: 8342844 | Clan Stormcrest
http://www.polenth.demon.co.uk/
DC.D Pf CDP a- d+++ WL+* L14f Balkali f e! m-
Polenth
>Hey, where is their guild anyway? I'm in the mood for some roast bird/cat.
Perhaps you don't like the 'Why gryphons are better than dragons' list,
but it's a petty reason to flame a friendly group. If you do, I'll
report you to your ISP. The list is a joke, but flaming isn't. The guild
aims to make people more aware of gryphons, and to bring together
gryphons and gryphon lovers. It's not that disimilar from what afd does
for dragons. Would you like it if afd was flamed because of the sense of
humour of a few individuals in the group?
The site is at:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/4758/
It is worth noting you may well search this site in vain, and not find
the list in question. This is because it appeared on the old guild site.
The old site is still there, with the new site overlain on it. The old
site can still be found via search engines, but isn't the one people
should be linking to. All the email links and such do not work. It's
possible the new site has been altered to include the old stuff, but it
wasn't last time I looked. The main point of this age business is half
of those who helped write it are no longer there anyway.
Wren Flametongue
<ray...@gowanlock.demon.co.uk> spake thusly:
>Well met friends,
> Now, before I start, I just want to point out that I have
>nothing at all against Griffins/Gryphons. I think they are an honourable
>species and I admire them for that. But...
I even have one as a close friend...
> Earlier on I visited The Gryphon Guild, as I know little about
Where?
>Gryphons and was curious about them, when I got there I was disgusted
>and angered to see a list titled: "Ten reasons why Gryphons are better
>than Dragons"
What the?!!!
> The nerve of them! I bet 90% of the have never even met a
>Dragon, let alone know enough about them to be able to judge us. One of
>the reasons listed was "Gryphons have better breath", what's with that?
Hey! It aint my fault I like anchovies!
>Just because we're Dragons, we all suffer from halitosis? And how many
>Gryps can breath fire, ice, plasma, smoke, or any other of our breath
No comment from the dragon with the mighty "CO2 breath weapon" *g*
>weapons? Another was "Gryphons have RETRACTABLE claws as well as
>talons". Oooh! Amazing! I personally have retractable claws, and I'm
>sure a lot of the inhabitents of Alfandria do to.
I do. I think all (most?) Terrans do.
> If it sounds like I'm overeacting (which I may well be) then I'm
>sorry, but I personally have enough dignity, pride and self-respect to
>object to being classed as second-best to Gryphs. Like I said, I have
>nothing against Gryphons as a whole, and I'm not saying we're better
>than they, but that just really struck a nerve in me.
I believe they're joking. If not then they have no reason to call
themselves superior to anyone.
>--
>Bek Kodosi, who eats Gryphons for dinner <grin>
>DC.D/W f s-- h+++ CMR/- a++ $++ (m) (d) WL++* Fr- L* BF/Sm e! g i! u-
>76% Draconity Corrupt
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
DC2.D Gm CG:amber(hairK) a- L w- pFLW B- f
r+++! s Fr U i-! h--- $- m e---
Ray Dean
<pol...@polenth.demon.co.uk> writes
>Then you've lost your bet. Dragons are one of the more prolific species
>in the guild. I'm one of them. There also are various non-dragon GG
>members on the ng. They know full well what dragons are like.
Well....er....um....okay, so maybe I was wrong there. Okay, okay, I
admit, I'm not perfect.
>You are overreacting. The gryph lists are meant humerously... and there
>were dragons who helped write them. It wasn't meant to be a deadly
>insult against dragons, and the dragons in the guild didn't take it as
>such. The lists were written cooperatively, so different creatures came
>up with different list entries. Not all are accurate, but that's because
>the lists were written for fun, not to be an accurate definition.
>
>You should read my other reply in this thread too.
>
Like I said, if I was overeacting, I'm sorry. I can't help what reaction
I have to certain things now, can I? I didn't mean to sound like an old
fart with no sense of humour, it's just a gift I have <grin>
Anyway, I was already in a bad mood when I wrote that post, so that had
something to do with it.
Once again, my apologies for sounding stroppy.
--
Bek Kodosi
Contention
> Earlier on I visited The Gryphon Guild, as I know little about
>Gryphons and was curious about them, when I got there I was disgusted
>and angered to see a list titled: "Ten reasons why Gryphons are better
>than Dragons"
Sorry, but it doesn't annoy me. After all, why do they need a list?
Has anyone ever bothered to create the "Top 100 reasons why Dragons are
better than Gryphons"?
Let them have their list. We *know*. :)
Contention.
--
Andrew J. Shore, Contention-among-dragons.
[DC2.D CHshadesofB Gm a(d+/+++! h-) L* w pWLF BL
f++ r+ s+ Fr--* U+++! i+! h+ $ m- e++++]
"Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons - for you are crunchy, and taste good
with ketchup!" - Uni of Warwick lamppost.
Polenth
>I have to certain things now, can I? I didn't mean to sound like an old
>fart with no sense of humour, it's just a gift I have <grin>
>Anyway, I was already in a bad mood when I wrote that post, so that had
>something to do with it.
>Once again, my apologies for sounding stroppy.
I could see is you may just have been posted a message about it because
you were in a bad mood anyway, but there are always those here ready to
jump on the bandwagon and cause problems for the group being complained
about without stopping to think. I was aiming to stem the flow of the
'flame the b*****ds' response. I'm not going to hold a grudge or
anything. :)
BluePard
*checks the thread*
Y'know... I leave for just a bit... not even a week... and I miss an
oppurtunity like this. It makes me sad, really.
--
_ - ___ \ BluePard, Lone Loopy Lupine Leopard Mage
,-------/.)- ( ` \ Born wingless into interesting times
// \ ) )
.------/`> \ / Don't be ashamed of the past,
'- ( \ / it molds the present
`-....-' \ _/
''''`'|'\ / `- BluePard(at)buffnet.net
BP ( http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/palms/2115
Blue...@my-dejanews.com
> KUlrich276 <kulri...@aol.com> murmured mushroomyly:
> >Hey, where is their guild anyway? I'm in the mood for some roast bird/cat.
And I'm always hungry for flamers. MmmmmMMMHMM! *grins* Don't believe I've met
ya yet, I'm da local firebrand. Quite pleased t'meet.
> wasn't last time I looked. The main point of this age business is half
> of those who helped write it are no longer there anyway.
To you, Pole, firstly, why must you always beat me to correcting people? ;)
And second, that sounds like one o the lists formed by our own Alexander the
Gryphen, who is about but hasn't been keeping tabs on the board lately, even
tho he usually does... I know 'cause he was just put in a board portrait.
Anyhoo, I do believe I remmeber that list being posted to the Gryphon's Cry,
issue 9 if my memories right, since that was the first one I got. Tserisa (for
those who don't know, a dragon and currently in charge o the gryphon guild),
who was in charge o the Cry, posted all o them without saying she was offended
at all by any... *shrugs*
--
BluePard
http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/palms/2115
bluepard(at)buffnet.net
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
dragonfly
>Gryphons and was curious about them, when I got there I was disgusted
>and angered to see a list titled: "Ten reasons why Gryphons are better
>than Dragons"
take it w/ a pinch of salt. i bet if you asked the original poster what
it was all about, they'd say it was just a bit of fun. anyway, they
*are* entitled to their opinion.. whether you agree w/ it or not.
> The nerve of them! I bet 90% of the have never even met a
>Dragon, let alone know enough about them to be able to judge us. One of
>the reasons listed was "Gryphons have better breath", what's with that?
>Just because we're Dragons, we all suffer from halitosis?
i don't think they meant that either. think about it, the stereotype of
dragons is; big, red, ugly and has bad breath or breaths fire. *thats*
what they were making fun out of..
>And how many
>Gryps can breath fire, ice, plasma, smoke, or any other of our breath
>weapons? Another was "Gryphons have RETRACTABLE claws as well as
>talons". Oooh! Amazing! I personally have retractable claws, and I'm
>sure a lot of the inhabitents of Alfandria do to.
*examines her own paws*
nope. i don't. but who cares whether they do and we don't?
> If it sounds like I'm overeacting (which I may well be) then I'm
>sorry, but I personally have enough dignity, pride and self-respect to
>object to being classed as second-best to Gryphs. Like I said, I have
>nothing against Gryphons as a whole, and I'm not saying we're better
>than they, but that just really struck a nerve in me.
they were having a bit of fun. i'm sure, if you look hard enough,
dragons have probably (in some way) slagged gryphons off as well.
-- moon starr
DC.D f--- a- d+++ (m) CB&S WL++* L--- g- Z e FR++ h+ $-- i- s++ U
how 'bout me not blaming you for everything
how 'bout me enjoying the moment for once
how 'bout how good it feels to finally forgive you
how 'bout grieving it all one at a time
alanis morissette
Arangast2
"I decided to go over to the Gryphon Guild and take a look
around. It is not a hateful or spiteful group or a superior
attitude group. It is simply a realm of Gryphons and their
friends. It is _very much_ like the AFD. The list was just
some playful joking around, in fact some dragons that hang
around there even helped contribute to the list. It was all in
simple, harmless fun. It is actually a nice place to visit. I
think we need to just calm down and forget about that List.
It was all in good fun, not unlike some of the clowning around
we get going here."
~ Arangast ~
65' Gold Dragon
========================================
Mate to Barbendaen the Silver
Father of Caylindaen, Daelphnin and Phyre
Family to many and Friend to the rest
========================================
Aran...@aol.com
BluePard
>
> "I decided to go over to the Gryphon Guild and take a look
> around. It is not a hateful or spiteful group or a superior
> attitude group. It is simply a realm of Gryphons and their
> friends. It is _very much_ like the AFD.
Ya gots be kidding! AFD has way more innuendo than the GGuild. (I think
gryph's nares flush easily ;)
I do remember, however, that I found AFD via members o the gryphguild
who were Alfandrans as well. Actually, I found dragonfire.org first, but
had no idea what a newsgroup was since me old browser called 'em
"discussion groups" and I'd never used 'em (due to said browsers
inability to download the list of groups in under an hour, or to let you
see one specific group without downloading the whole list)
Well, if anything, this lil ruckus (if you could possibly call it that)
has gotta a few more nice peeps to visit the guild
(http://geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/4758 by the way ;)
Sloki
~~SLOKI FURY~~
dragonfly wrote in message ...
Wren Flametongue
<Conte...@soaring.demon.co.uk> spake thusly:
>Bek Wossname <ray...@gowanlock.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Earlier on I visited The Gryphon Guild, as I know little about
>>Gryphons and was curious about them, when I got there I was disgusted
>>and angered to see a list titled: "Ten reasons why Gryphons are better
>>than Dragons"
>
> Sorry, but it doesn't annoy me. After all, why do they need a list?
>Has anyone ever bothered to create the "Top 100 reasons why Dragons are
>better than Gryphons"?
>
I was thinking of as a kind of joke...
#9 Dragons can count. (See the Gryph's list to understand this one...)
> Let them have their list. We *know*. :)
>
>
>Contention.
>--
>Andrew J. Shore, Contention-among-dragons.
>[DC2.D CHshadesofB Gm a(d+/+++! h-) L* w pWLF BL
>f++ r+ s+ Fr--* U+++! i+! h+ $ m- e++++]
>"Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons - for you are crunchy, and taste good
>with ketchup!" - Uni of Warwick lamppost.
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
BluePard
> Blue...@my-dejanews.com murmured mushroomyly:
> >> of those who helped write it are no longer there anyway.
> >
> >To you, Pole, firstly, why must you always beat me to correcting people? ;)
>
YES! :)
Naw, I'm ribbin'. But don't you know how I love to talk about things I
know, and how few things I know?
>
> >And second, that sounds like one o the lists formed by our own Alexander the
> >Gryphen, who is about but hasn't been keeping tabs on the board lately, even
> >tho he usually does... I know 'cause he was just put in a board portrait.
>
> Well, a bit of his beak was. :)
The usual. No one has yet to see anymore of him than it! I mean, we
can't exclude him, he's been a member since before there was a gryph
guild, but if we do a full body of him, the rest of us will just be some
lil specks by his feet...! ;)
I noticed there was a lil purple dragon in the pic, but since it wasn't
attacking anyone with celery I assumed 'twasn't you.
>
> >Anyhoo, I do believe I remmeber that list being posted to the Gryphon's Cry,
> >issue 9 if my memories right, since that was the first one I got. Tserisa (for
> >those who don't know, a dragon and currently in charge o the gryphon guild),
> >who was in charge o the Cry, posted all o them without saying she was offended
> >at all by any... *shrugs*
>
> The list is on the site now too. I checked since this post, and the site
> is updated. Haven't had a chance to check round it yet though. Thinking
> of the cry, what's happening with the unofficial cry?
Well, absolutely nothing. Yes, it's all my fault... I'll get some more
issues out, just got swamped a while back and then got out o habit.
Always need contributions o poems or interestin' bits, if yas got 'em!
Black...@my-dejanews.com
> If it sounds like I'm overeacting (which I may well be) then I'm
> sorry, but I personally have enough dignity, pride and self-respect to
> object to being classed as second-best to Gryphs. Like I said, I have
> nothing against Gryphons as a whole, and I'm not saying we're better
> than they, but that just really struck a nerve in me.
*nods* but for most of them it probably was just for fun. If I made a 10 list
for reasons why shapeshifters were better or why machines were superior, it
would still be the same sort of thing :P. Plus the machine bit wouldn't work
because I know quite a lot of us here are programmers *LOL*.
Now I must admit that what they were doing is no different then some unamed
individuals do here *g*. I myself know my place and it be quite low on the
food chain of sorts but I don't care (see truth/duty/honor thingie).
I personally know that Generals Patton and Rommel were possibly beter then I
am for example so I do know my place. They were some helluva better
tacticians! But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are/were better over
all (that can't be judged by any of you). Do we know what they did in their
personal time or what I do for that matter? Or of what I screw up on or do
wrong and them too? Nope, you can't compare. Sorry silly beings (including
me), but you must go back to Start :P
-Black Fang, the War Serpent
> Bek Kodosi, who eats Gryphons for dinner <grin>
> DC.D/W f s-- h+++ CMR/- a++ $++ (m) (d) WL++* Fr- L* BF/Sm e! g i! u-
> 76% Draconity Corrupt
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Polenth
>>And how many
>>Gryps can breath fire, ice, plasma, smoke, or any other of our breath
>>weapons? Another was "Gryphons have RETRACTABLE claws as well as
>>talons". Oooh! Amazing! I personally have retractable claws, and I'm
>>sure a lot of the inhabitents of Alfandria do to.
>
>*examines her own paws*
>nope. i don't. but who cares whether they do and we don't?
I'm one of the few examples that has retractable/non-retractable in a
similar stype to gryphs (retractable back talons, non retractable
front). A total bit of trivia really, but there you go. :)
Hmm, gryphons, afd. And you could always visit alt.myth.. *selfthwap*.
I'll kick the non-shameless plugging habit oneday. :)
Polenth
> pol...@polenth.demon.co.uk wrote:
>> KUlrich276 <kulri...@aol.com> murmured mushroomyly:
>> wasn't last time I looked. The main point of this age business is half
>> of those who helped write it are no longer there anyway.
>
>To you, Pole, firstly, why must you always beat me to correcting people? ;)
Because I'm nasty? :)
>And second, that sounds like one o the lists formed by our own Alexander the
>Gryphen, who is about but hasn't been keeping tabs on the board lately, even
>tho he usually does... I know 'cause he was just put in a board portrait.
Well, a bit of his beak was. :)
>Anyhoo, I do believe I remmeber that list being posted to the Gryphon's Cry,
>issue 9 if my memories right, since that was the first one I got. Tserisa (for
>those who don't know, a dragon and currently in charge o the gryphon guild),
>who was in charge o the Cry, posted all o them without saying she was offended
>at all by any... *shrugs*
The list is on the site now too. I checked since this post, and the site
is updated. Haven't had a chance to check round it yet though. Thinking
of the cry, what's happening with the unofficial cry?
Flame Stryke
dragonfly wrote:
> think about it, the stereotype of dragons is; big, red, ugly and has bad
> breath or breaths fire. *thats* what they were making fun out of..
And _that's_ the real problem as I see it with this world -- the humans (and
many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
like. I, myself, am a black dragon, which is bad enough in this world, but I
also have red eyes that glow, and that instantly makes me evil..... I think
not!!
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--!
h--- $ m(d) o- e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for
the rest of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"She is always late. Her ancestors arrived on the Juneflower." -- Anonymous
FoulDragon
>And _that's_ the real problem as I see it with this world -- the humans (and
>many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
>like. I, myself, am a black dragon, which is bad enough in this world, but I
>also have red eyes that glow, and that instantly makes me evil..... I think
>not!!
Ooo.... pretty cool.
Where I come from, black dragons with red eyes are well revered [although they
really play off the success of an early black dragon leader]
--
Marada Coeurfuege Shra'drakaii Dra'torrinah(Clan Nightwings)
members.xoom.com/marada Colony name not needed in address.
"I trust you less than a forty-eight dollar motherboard."
Sparhawk
dragonfly wrote:
>
> > Earlier on I visited The Gryphon Guild, as I know little about
> >Gryphons and was curious about them, when I got there I was disgusted
> >and angered to see a list titled: "Ten reasons why Gryphons are better
> >than Dragons"
>
> take it w/ a pinch of salt. i bet if you asked the original poster what
> it was all about, they'd say it was just a bit of fun. anyway, they
> *are* entitled to their opinion.. whether you agree w/ it or not.
>
> > The nerve of them! I bet 90% of the have never even met a
> >Dragon, let alone know enough about them to be able to judge us. One of
> >the reasons listed was "Gryphons have better breath", what's with that?
> >Just because we're Dragons, we all suffer from halitosis?
>
> i don't think they meant that either. think about it, the stereotype of
> dragons is; big, red, ugly and has bad breath or breaths fire. *thats*
> what they were making fun out of..
>
> >And how many
> >Gryps can breath fire, ice, plasma, smoke, or any other of our breath
> >weapons? Another was "Gryphons have RETRACTABLE claws as well as
> >talons". Oooh! Amazing! I personally have retractable claws, and I'm
> >sure a lot of the inhabitents of Alfandria do to.
>
> *examines her own paws*
> nope. i don't. but who cares whether they do and we don't?
>
> > If it sounds like I'm overeacting (which I may well be) then I'm
> >sorry, but I personally have enough dignity, pride and self-respect to
> >object to being classed as second-best to Gryphs. Like I said, I have
> >nothing against Gryphons as a whole, and I'm not saying we're better
> >than they, but that just really struck a nerve in me.
>
> they were having a bit of fun. i'm sure, if you look hard enough,
> dragons have probably (in some way) slagged gryphons off as well.
>
I believe I recall Bluepard making a statement back before she joined
AFD, that she looked at it once and at the top of the list was a thread
about "cooking gryphons in white sauce" and other such nastiness. I
thought that was... *searches for words, finds none* ...bad, but I
didn't base my opinion of the entire group on that.
I also seem to recall she said that the person who started the thread
was a gryphon and a troll.
Sparhawk, who was unable to read the group at the time
--
Be sure to respond to Sparhawk_YMBAW(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net or
your message will be lost in the DejaNews dungeon!
dragonfly
>we get going here."
*tries to look innocent*
'the clowning around we get going here'.. i haven't a *clue* what you're
talking about :>
>~ Arangast ~
>65' Gold Dragon
-- moon starr
dragonfly
>> breath or breaths fire. *thats* what they were making fun out of..
>
>many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
>like.
me neither. esp. when it comes to dragons. when some begins to say;
"aren't dragons those big, ugly, red lizards?" i tend to scowl at them
:>
>I, myself, am a black dragon, which is bad enough in this world, but I
>also have red eyes that glow, and that instantly makes me evil..... I think
>not!!
hrm. well. my colours been changing recently.. from black to blue and
now i'm edging on red *grins* i'm a mood-dragon ;)
>--
>Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--!
-- moon starr
Polenth
>Polenth wrote:
>> Blue...@my-dejanews.com murmured mushroomyly:
>> > pol...@polenth.demon.co.uk wrote:
>> >To you, Pole, firstly, why must you always beat me to correcting people? ;)
>>
>> Because I'm nasty? :)
>
*sniffle* :)
>Naw, I'm ribbin'. But don't you know how I love to talk about things I
>know, and how few things I know?
Well, you could always pretend I wasn't there. :)
>> Well, a bit of his beak was. :)
>
>The usual. No one has yet to see anymore of him than it! I mean, we
>can't exclude him, he's been a member since before there was a gryph
>guild, but if we do a full body of him, the rest of us will just be some
>lil specks by his feet...! ;)
>
Perhaps we could have a picture with everyone sitting on his back?
That'd be a new alternative to the beak. :)
>I noticed there was a lil purple dragon in the pic, but since it wasn't
>attacking anyone with celery I assumed 'twasn't you.
How many 'lil purple dragons called 'Polenth' do you know? :) (besides,
the celery is there. The pic is just before I whip it out and start the
attack. The lull before the storm as it were. :))
>> The list is on the site now too. I checked since this post, and the site
>> is updated. Haven't had a chance to check round it yet though. Thinking
>> of the cry, what's happening with the unofficial cry?
>
>Well, absolutely nothing. Yes, it's all my fault... I'll get some more
>issues out, just got swamped a while back and then got out o habit.
>
>Always need contributions o poems or interestin' bits, if yas got 'em!
I have poems, but they mostly aren't very poetical, and not about
gryphons. The only two gryph poems I've ever written were posted to
Newland. I may manage the odd gryph sighting though.
Contention
>Because I'm nasty? :)
I had a wonderful word that to describe you, but what was it...? Not
"nasty". Something... <waves hands about vaguely>...
Contention. (Probably just as well I've forgotten...) ;)
Wren Flametongue
spake thusly:
>*sniffles*
>
>*checks the thread*
>
>Y'know... I leave for just a bit... not even a week... and I miss an
>oppurtunity like this. It makes me sad, really.
But I was here to have a laugh!! And you were not!!
BWAHAHAHA!!!
;=8P
Mayhaps I am being a bit *TOO* silly?
Polenth
>Polenth <pol...@polenth.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Because I'm nasty? :)
>
> I had a wonderful word that to describe you, but what was it...? Not
>"nasty". Something... <waves hands about vaguely>...
Mushroomy? :)
Flame Stryke
FoulDragon wrote:
> >
> >And _that's_ the real problem as I see it with this world -- the humans (and
> >many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
> >like. I, myself, am a black dragon, which is bad enough in this world, but I
> >also have red eyes that glow, and that instantly makes me evil..... I think
> >not!!
>
> Ooo.... pretty cool.
> Where I come from, black dragons with red eyes are well revered [although they
> really play off the success of an early black dragon leader]
Well, one of the things on my guestbook was from someone from Krynn, where all
black dragon's are evil..... I'm not, even though he said Paladine thanked me for
turning from darkness..... Now, I'm not saying that in all places blacvk dragons
are evil, as they obviously aren't where you're from, but the number of places
they are strongly outnumbers the places they aren't.....
BTW, where, exactly, is this place, I would very much like to visit there one
day.....
> "I trust you less than a forty-eight dollar motherboard."
I'm hurt!! };=8Ş
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $
Flame Stryke
dragonfly wrote:
> >> think about it, the stereotype of dragons is; big, red, ugly and has bad
> >> breath or breaths fire. *thats* what they were making fun out of..
> >
> >And _that's_ the real problem as I see it with this world -- the humans (and
> >many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
> >like.
>
> me neither. esp. when it comes to dragons. when some begins to say;
> "aren't dragons those big, ugly, red lizards?" i tend to scowl at them
> :>
Oh, I tend to start growling, even in my human form };=8}
>
>
> >I, myself, am a black dragon, which is bad enough in this world, but I
> >also have red eyes that glow, and that instantly makes me evil..... I think
> >not!!
>
> hrm. well. my colours been changing recently.. from black to blue and
> now i'm edging on red *grins* i'm a mood-dragon ;)
Hehe..... Does one wear you as a ring or a pendant? };=8Þ
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $
m(d) o- e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the
rest of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"It's redundant! It's redundant! --R. E. Dundant" -- Anonymous
FoulDragon
>day.....
"It's a confederation of forty worlds near to Terra/Earth. I might reccomend
the old home town- Barnardii, orbiting Barnard's Star. Just turn right and go
6 light years until you see the statue of Ma'graialen."
>I'm not, even though he said Paladine thanked me for
>turning from darkness.....
'Who is the idiot who equated darkness with evil? It really annoys me. I
consider dragons 'Children of Darkness'-- it's a standard story [like the
stork] for my species."
>but the number of places
>they are strongly outnumbers the places they aren't.....
'Assuming you have the same definitions of good and evil.'
--
Marada Coeurfuege Shra'drakaii Dra'torrinah(Clan Nightwings)
members.xoom.com/marada Colony name not needed in address.
{Frostbite}
> 'Who is the idiot who equated darkness with evil? It really annoys
me. I
> consider dragons 'Children of Darkness'-- it's a standard story [like the
> stork] for my species."
*Frostbite smiles and settles down into a very large drift of snow that
has developed around him, despite the warm Alfandran weather. He is
soon buried, save for his head and his tail, which twitches boredly
from side to side*
Probably the same idiot that equated Winter with evil and death.
Simply look at the Narnian White Witch, the villainous Jack Frost,
the insidious Mr. Freeze, and so many others! Basically anything people
don't particularly like (The Dark, The Cold, DRAGONS..) gets given a
very bad rep.
The dragons of the Northlands have a similar story, much like those of
the stork or the cabbage patch that humans tell their hatchlings. A
tale about a magical snowflake becoming a dragon.. the specific details
elude me, but I do remember that at the time of an infant's hatching,
all the children go out into the snow and make wonderfully elaborate
snowdragons, some even using dyes on the snow to add color. It is a
sign of extremely good luck. Of course, the younger and less
artistically talented hatchlings are content to help the older children
or simply sculpt dragon eggs out of snow. }:=8)
*Frostbite sighs as the warm fuzzy of nostalgia washes over him, then
blinks back to reality.*
Oh, I wanted to say sorry for not answering all (Or is that any? :( )
of the replies to my greeting post. I've been away from my comp more
than I'd like, and I've currently got a -lot- of posts to skim through
if I wanna catch up. Hope you forgive me. Maybe this'll help..
*Frostbite concentrates for a long moment, then the snow hill he's
buried in sprouts dozens upon dozens of popsicles, all shaped like
different kinds of flowers in every color and flavor imaginable*
Go ahead! Take a petunia, it tastes like an orange! The snapdragons
taste like strawberries! The carnations taste like raspberries! The
daffodils taste like snozzberries! :)
-Frosty,
The Dragon That Said
'We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams.'
--
Lord Thuban .-={Frostbite}=-*-={ed...@hockey.net}=-. }\ ( ) /{
_.+._ ~deathly beauty flies~ }__\|\^^^/|/__{
(^\/^\/^) ~across this vivid dreamscape~ }___(@~ ~@)___{
\@*@*@/ ___________~winter has arrived~____________ }__/ \\A// \__{
{_____} |DC.?(D) f+ sRL+ sVR+++ h-- CBwS ad+ ah- $--| }/ (o_o) \{
Alfmund |m d+++ WL++* Fr++ L15m BC/I/water e- g i! U| V V
Flame Stryke
FoulDragon wrote:
> >BTW, where, exactly, is this place, I would very much like to visit there one
> >day.....
>
> "It's a confederation of forty worlds near to Terra/Earth. I might reccomend
> the old home town- Barnardii, orbiting Barnard's Star. Just turn right and go
> 6 light years until you see the statue of Ma'graialen."
Hrm, I'm not too big on space travel right now..... But then, since I can
teleport anywhere I've previously been and even to a few places I've never been
before, who needs space travel? };=8}
>
>
> >I'm not, even though he said Paladine thanked me for
> >turning from darkness.....
>
> 'Who is the idiot who equated darkness with evil? It really annoys me. I
> consider dragons 'Children of Darkness'-- it's a standard story [like the
> stork] for my species."
Well, all I can do is point you to my guestbook:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/geobook.html
>
>
> >but the number of places
> >they are strongly outnumbers the places they aren't.....
> 'Assuming you have the same definitions of good and evil.'
Most ppls do.....
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $
m(d) o- e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the
rest of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"If any word is improper at the end of a sentence, a linking verb is."
a_mo...@usa.net
> *Frostbite concentrates for a long moment, then the snow hill he's
> buried in sprouts dozens upon dozens of popsicles, all shaped like
> different kinds of flowers in every color and flavor imaginable*
>
> Go ahead! Take a petunia, it tastes like an orange! The snapdragons
> taste like strawberries! The carnations taste like raspberries! The
> daffodils taste like snozzberries! :)
>
>
Syth plucks a yellow iris and <CHOMP>s. ]:>
Syth Ravenheart, the 250-pound, winged, black wolf. DC.?(C/W) f s-- df+ h
C(O|K/K) a- $+ m d WL(+^/++*) Fr- L2m B- e(?/+++) g- i++! U+ [NOTE: some
characteristics don't carry over from tiger-form to wolf-form, and vice
versa.]
/\
__,--' `-,_
(_,_
_,_' adm
`----,_
`-._
`
Wren Flametongue
<flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
>
>dragonfly wrote:
>
>> think about it, the stereotype of dragons is; big, red, ugly and has bad
>> breath or breaths fire. *thats* what they were making fun out of..
>
>And _that's_ the real problem as I see it with this world -- the humans (and
>many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
Hmm? Dont you mean they think in stereotypes?
>like. I, myself, am a black dragon, which is bad enough in this world, but I
>also have red eyes that glow, and that instantly makes me evil..... I think
>not!!
??! Why? Glowing eyes *DO* scare some peeps, but it doesnt make them
evil... I have glowing eyes myself, although mine are amber...
Kai also has glowing red eyes, and he cannot be described as evil
either...
Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
nice black dragons well.
>--
>Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--!
>h--- $ m(d) o- e++++! CK:R
>Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
>Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
>UIN: 5589135
>"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for
>the rest of your life."
> -- Flame Stryke
>
>"She is always late. Her ancestors arrived on the Juneflower." -- Anonymous
>
>
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
BluePard
> BluePard <blue...@buffNOT.net> murmured pardically, not mushroomyly:
> >Polenth wrote:
> >> Blue...@my-dejanews.com murmured mushroomyly:
> >> > pol...@polenth.demon.co.uk wrote:
> >> >To you, Pole, firstly, why must you always beat me to correcting people? ;)
> >>
> >
>
> *sniffle* :)
Next ime you grin-sniffle, hide yer face under yer paw. :)
>
> >Naw, I'm ribbin'. But don't you know how I love to talk about things I
> >know, and how few things I know?
>
> Well, you could always pretend I wasn't there. :)
Hmmmmmmm... cliche, but it works. :)
>
> >> Well, a bit of his beak was. :)
> >
> >The usual. No one has yet to see anymore of him than it! I mean, we
> >can't exclude him, he's been a member since before there was a gryph
> >guild, but if we do a full body of him, the rest of us will just be some
> >lil specks by his feet...! ;)
> >
>
> Perhaps we could have a picture with everyone sitting on his back?
> That'd be a new alternative to the beak. :)
Mayhaps, but I bet he's real fluffy. Everyone'd sink in and we'd only
get eartuffs!
Hmmm... I oughta draw that... :)
>
> >I noticed there was a lil purple dragon in the pic, but since it wasn't
> >attacking anyone with celery I assumed 'twasn't you.
>
> How many 'lil purple dragons called 'Polenth' do you know? :)
Well.... ahhh... *begins counting off toes* whew, this is gonna take a
while. :)
> (besides,
> the celery is there. The pic is just before I whip it out and start the
> attack. The lull before the storm as it were. :))
Ahhhh.... ingenious. :)
>
> >> The list is on the site now too. I checked since this post, and the site
> >> is updated. Haven't had a chance to check round it yet though. Thinking
> >> of the cry, what's happening with the unofficial cry?
> >
> >Well, absolutely nothing. Yes, it's all my fault... I'll get some more
> >issues out, just got swamped a while back and then got out o habit.
> >
> >Always need contributions o poems or interestin' bits, if yas got 'em!
>
> I have poems, but they mostly aren't very poetical, and not about
> gryphons. The only two gryph poems I've ever written were posted to
> Newland. I may manage the odd gryph sighting though.
Wondiesfull. :)
Cerulean
>On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 03:02:16 GMT, Flame Stryke
><flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>>And _that's_ the real problem as I see it with this world -- the humans (and
>>many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
>
>Hmm? Dont you mean they think in stereotypes?
Well, consider this: To think in terms of stereotypes tends to make
one a stereotype oneself. Have you ever encountered an extreme racist,
sexist, or otherwise strongly prejudiced individual who didn't behave
like a farcically typecast fictional character? To accept stereotypes
is to accept one's own place in them, and to play the role that is
expected of one's category.
--
___vvz /( Cerulean http://home.att.net/~kevinpease
<__,` Z / ( DC.D/? fs+h++ Gm CB^P a$m++d+++l*g-e!i
`~~~) )Z) ( FDDmp4adwsA+++$C+D+HM+P-RT+++WZSm#
/ (7 ( aa7hV - ,,'h+se+ +nq'''pJ!am aJe suewnH,,
FoulDragon
>don't particularly like (The Dark, The Cold, DRAGONS..) gets given a
>very bad rep.
'Ah. it's akin to numerous social religous political etc. movements-- just
because it isn't popular does not award the right to declare it evil.'
>. A
>tale about a magical snowflake becoming a dragon..
That's a neat one.
>elp the older children
>or simply sculpt dragon eggs out of snow. }:=8)
>
Well, that's the easiest solution. Wait six months and you get one anyway.
Contention
>>>Because I'm nasty? :)
>> I had a wonderful word that to describe you, but what was it...? Not
>>"nasty". Something... <waves hands about vaguely>...
>Mushroomy? :)
It'll do. :)
Contention. (Woss Mushroomy, then? <g>)
Wyrm
Contention <Conte...@soaring.demon.co.uk> enscribed the following:
>Polenth <pol...@polenth.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Mushroomy? :)
> It'll do. :)
>Contention. (Woss Mushroomy, then? <g>)
It's a portmanteau word combining Mushy and Roomy. When one is mushroomy
one is very watery but has lots of space inside! :8)
Of course, Polenth will state that it is 'being like a mushroom' bu we know
better! :8)
Wyrm.
--
Wyrm: http://www.wyrm.demon.co.uk/
DC.D f++ s-- h++ CFire a+++++ $+ (m) d+++
WL++ Fr++++ L700f BF e+++ g-- i+! U+++
Dragon's, coming, out of the sea.
Shimmering silver head of wisdom looking at me.
Peter Gabriel - Genesis.
Flame Stryke
Cerulean wrote:
> Quoth Wren Flametongue:
>
> >On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 03:02:16 GMT, Flame Stryke
> ><flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
> >>And _that's_ the real problem as I see it with this world -- the humans (and
> >>many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
> >
> >Hmm? Dont you mean they think in stereotypes?
>
> Well, consider this: To think in terms of stereotypes tends to make
> one a stereotype oneself. Have you ever encountered an extreme racist,
> sexist, or otherwise strongly prejudiced individual who didn't behave
> like a farcically typecast fictional character? To accept stereotypes
> is to accept one's own place in them, and to play the role that is
> expected of one's category.
Umm, could you explain this to me again..... This time in English? };=8}
But, yes, I understand your standpoint, and it is valid. I used the wrong word,
casting myself as a racist (or something like that) which I'm not. What I meant
to say was that they use stereotypes too much, some even to the point of depending
on them to even survive.....
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $
m(d) o- e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the
rest of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"If you touch any key, our software will lock up. Call us and we'll blame it on
Microsoft." -- Anonymous
Flame Stryke
Wren Flametongue wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 03:02:16 GMT, Flame Stryke
> <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
> >
> >
> >dragonfly wrote:
> >
> >> think about it, the stereotype of dragons is; big, red, ugly and has bad
> >> breath or breaths fire. *thats* what they were making fun out of..
> >
> >And _that's_ the real problem as I see it with this world -- the humans (and
> >many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
>
> Hmm? Dont you mean they think in stereotypes?
Um.....er.....yes..... It wouldn't do to be against stereotyping and then go and
do it myself, now would it? };=8}
>
>
> >like. I, myself, am a black dragon, which is bad enough in this world, but I
> >also have red eyes that glow, and that instantly makes me evil..... I think
> >not!!
>
> ??! Why? Glowing eyes *DO* scare some peeps, but it doesnt make them
> evil... I have glowing eyes myself, although mine are amber...
> Kai also has glowing red eyes, and he cannot be described as evil
> either...
>
> Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
> nice black dragons well.
Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
word };=8} )
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $
m(d) o- e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the
rest of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"There is no greater waste as a waste of time." -- Anonymous
Cerulean
>Cerulean wrote:
>
>> Well, consider this: To think in terms of stereotypes tends to make
>> one a stereotype oneself. Have you ever encountered an extreme racist,
>> sexist, or otherwise strongly prejudiced individual who didn't behave
>> like a farcically typecast fictional character? To accept stereotypes
>> is to accept one's own place in them, and to play the role that is
>> expected of one's category.
>
>Umm, could you explain this to me again..... This time in English? };=8}
I was putting forth the notion that what you happened to say might not
be so different from what you meant to say. That is, people who
believe stereotypes tend to behave stereotypically themselves.
>But, yes, I understand your standpoint, and it is valid. I used the wrong word,
>casting myself as a racist (or something like that) which I'm not. What I meant
>to say was that they use stereotypes too much, some even to the point of depending
>on them to even survive.....
It's not really racist to say that there are stereotypical
individuals. When people choose to be what the media tell them they're
supposed to be, that's their fault. To say that someone is a
stereotype is to acknowledge that there are plenty of others in that
grouping who are _not_ like that person.
BluePard
> Wren Flametongue wrote:
> > On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 03:02:16 GMT, Flame Stryke
> > <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
> > >dragonfly wrote:
> > >
> > >> think about it, the stereotype of dragons is; big, red, ugly and has bad
> > >> breath or breaths fire. *thats* what they were making fun out of..
> > >
> > >And _that's_ the real problem as I see it with this world -- the humans (and
> > >many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
> >
> > Hmm? Dont you mean they think in stereotypes?
>
> Um.....er.....yes..... It wouldn't do to be against stereotyping and then go and
> do it myself, now would it? };=8}
Well, most likely you do think in stereotypes... for the purposes of
daily life, most people have to judge books by their covers, and despite
what they preach will shy away from "a dangerous-looking character".
It's only sense.
On the other hand, those who believe stereotypes to be absolute truths
are overestimating the value of first-sight judgement. I have yet to
meet a person who can be assessed at a single glance, and the peeps on
this NG prove that point about a book's cover. However, if a book's
cover is pretty, I'm more likely to glance at the storyline. By your
appearance you also set a tone for how people will see you. Appearence
matters, quite a bit indeed.
(not that I ever APPLY these points.... *rolls her eyes at herself*)
> > Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
> > nice black dragons well.
*grins*
Oh, setting up another stereotype, are we? Black dragons are nice, are
they?
*grins*
This is a hard subject to argue sometimes, ain't it? :)
>
> Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
> see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
> word };=8} )
Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
Polenth
>It's a portmanteau word combining Mushy and Roomy. When one is mushroomy
>one is very watery but has lots of space inside! :8)
You've been analysing jabberwocky too much... 'tis getting to you. :)
>Of course, Polenth will state that it is 'being like a mushroom' bu we know
>better! :8)
There's no reason why they can't both be true in this case. A mushroom
my size will be fairly spacious inside, and fungi by definition are
moist. :)
Polenth
>> Perhaps we could have a picture with everyone sitting on his back?
>> That'd be a new alternative to the beak. :)
>
>Mayhaps, but I bet he's real fluffy. Everyone'd sink in and we'd only
>get eartuffs!
>
>Hmmm... I oughta draw that... :)
I like the idea. A sea of feathers, with just the heads and stuff of
everyone as they try not to sink. :)
>> (besides,
>> the celery is there. The pic is just before I whip it out and start the
>> attack. The lull before the storm as it were. :))
>
>Ahhhh.... ingenious. :)
That'll teach gryphs to gather pack themselves into one small space when
I'm about. :)
Sparhawk
BluePard wrote:
>
> Flame Stryke wrote:
[snipsnipsnippitysnip]
> > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
> > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
> > word };=8} )
>
> Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
> Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
>
> Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
You RANG? :D
Sparhawk, human, not that one can tell by lines of black text on a white
screen
Flame Stryke
Cerulean wrote:
> Quoth Flame Stryke:
> >Cerulean wrote:
> >
> >> Well, consider this: To think in terms of stereotypes tends to make
> >> one a stereotype oneself. Have you ever encountered an extreme racist,
> >> sexist, or otherwise strongly prejudiced individual who didn't behave
> >> like a farcically typecast fictional character? To accept stereotypes
> >> is to accept one's own place in them, and to play the role that is
> >> expected of one's category.
> >
> >Umm, could you explain this to me again..... This time in English? };=8}
>
> I was putting forth the notion that what you happened to say might not
> be so different from what you meant to say. That is, people who
> believe stereotypes tend to behave stereotypically themselves.
Yes, but I don't see myself as stereotypical. The stereotypical dragon is red and
breathes fire and belches noxious fumes and is evil and guards a hoard. I am one of
those (namely I breathe fire) but none of the rest apply.
>
>
> >But, yes, I understand your standpoint, and it is valid. I used the wrong word,
> >casting myself as a racist (or something like that) which I'm not. What I meant
> >to say was that they use stereotypes too much, some even to the point of depending
> >on them to even survive.....
>
> It's not really racist to say that there are stereotypical
> individuals. When people choose to be what the media tell them they're
> supposed to be, that's their fault. To say that someone is a
> stereotype is to acknowledge that there are plenty of others in that
> grouping who are _not_ like that person.
Possibly, but I still believe that most humans rely on stereotypes too much. True,
there are some who don't go around quoting stereotypes, but for the most part, humans
rely on stereotypes more than any other species I've met. I'm not saying that some
dragons or gryphs or some other creatures don't follow stereotypes, but they rely on
them a lot less.
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d)
o- e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest
of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"Don't let people drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance." --
Anonymous
Flame Stryke
BluePard wrote:
> Flame Stryke wrote:
> > Wren Flametongue wrote:
> > > On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 03:02:16 GMT, Flame Stryke
> > > <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
> > > >dragonfly wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> think about it, the stereotype of dragons is; big, red, ugly and has bad
> > > >> breath or breaths fire. *thats* what they were making fun out of..
> > > >
> > > >And _that's_ the real problem as I see it with this world -- the humans (and
> > > >many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
> > >
> > > Hmm? Dont you mean they think in stereotypes?
> >
> > Um.....er.....yes..... It wouldn't do to be against stereotyping and then go and
> > do it myself, now would it? };=8}
>
> Well, most likely you do think in stereotypes... for the purposes of
> daily life, most people have to judge books by their covers, and despite
> what they preach will shy away from "a dangerous-looking character".
> It's only sense.
I don't see that as a stereotype myself (or at least I didn't before) but I feel that
I'm big and strong enough to give someone a second thought before trying anything so I
generally don't avoid shady looking characters, nor do I approach them unless I have
business either near or past them.
>
>
> On the other hand, those who believe stereotypes to be absolute truths
> are overestimating the value of first-sight judgement. I have yet to
> meet a person who can be assessed at a single glance, and the peeps on
> this NG prove that point about a book's cover. However, if a book's
> cover is pretty, I'm more likely to glance at the storyline. By your
> appearance you also set a tone for how people will see you. Appearence
> matters, quite a bit indeed.
Possibly, but I generally don't judge a book by its cover or I never would have come
here once I saw the posts in here. I think when I first saw this group there were
about 4 separate food fights and a couple of RPs going on, and that's not what I was
here for. I originally came here because of the title of the NG and I was a fan of
dragons, at that time not knowing that I _was_ one. However, despite the cover on the
book, to use the same analagy, I stayed and I joined in, and now it seems I'm here more
or less permanently.
Also, if someone were to proclaim they were someone or something they didn't appear to
be, I wouldn't apply a stereotype to them and say "He looks human so he's human," I
accept that that's who or what they feel they are.
>
>
> (not that I ever APPLY these points.... *rolls her eyes at herself*)
>
> > > Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
> > > nice black dragons well.
>
> *grins*
>
> Oh, setting up another stereotype, are we? Black dragons are nice, are
> they?
This statement isn't really a stereotype, it's a comment based on experience. He met
several black dragons who happened to be nice. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, as
it's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that most ppls think of black dragons as evil, but
I don't automatically assume that everyone trhinks I'm evil. I'm just trying to break
that particular stereotype and in so doing break the "all dragons are evil" stereotype.
>
>
> *grins*
>
> This is a hard subject to argue sometimes, ain't it? :)
It can be if you don't feel confident about your points, but I don't feel I have this
problem. Of course, anything anyone says about this will be opinion so there really is
no right answers. The only wrong opinion you can ever have is one in which you lie to
yourself, IMHO.
>
> >
> > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
> > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
> > word };=8} )
>
> Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
> Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
Some, yes, but not enough, really, to change them. A lot of the humans that visit this
group open themselves up and so break the bonds of stereotypes, and in so doing they
re-evaluate who and what they are. Some see themselves as the wrong gender, some of
the wrong species, and some to be their true selves. But then they go out into the
Real World and stereotypes start bogging them down. They want to fit in, so they
reaccept the stereotypes around them. Which, I believe, is counter-productive to my
original plan of this thread, which was to point out some of the stereotypes that are
around and destroy them.
>
>
> Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
Possibly not a miracle worker, as these ppls looked in on their own, but in some cases
we might be making a difference with this and some other threads, that cause ppls to
open their minds and actually think for themselves.....
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d)
o- e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest
of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"Do not put statements in the negative form"
Contention
>>>Mushroomy? :)
>> It'll do. :)
>>Contention. (Woss Mushroomy, then? <g>)
>
>It's a portmanteau word combining Mushy and Roomy. When one is mushroomy
>one is very watery but has lots of space inside! :8)
>Of course, Polenth will state that it is 'being like a mushroom' bu we know
>better! :8)
**very big grins** Ah. Now I get it. Just one thing, though... why
does Polenth think she's a mushroom?! :)
Contention.
Wyrm
Contention <Conte...@soaring.demon.co.uk> enscribed the following:
>Wyrm <laur...@wyrm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>Contention. (Woss Mushroomy, then? <g>)
>>It's a portmanteau word combining Mushy and Roomy. When one is mushroomy
>>one is very watery but has lots of space inside! :8)
>>Of course, Polenth will state that it is 'being like a mushroom' bu we know
>>better! :8)
> **very big grins** Ah. Now I get it. Just one thing, though... why
>does Polenth think she's a mushroom?! :)
Well, why does anyone consider themselves to be a fungal anomaly that
appears at regular intervals to spread fungal spores about the environment?
Wyrm - Yer avin a larf! :8)
dragonfly
>>> It'll do. :)
>>
>>It's a portmanteau word combining Mushy and Roomy. When one is mushroomy
>>one is very watery but has lots of space inside! :8)
>>Of course, Polenth will state that it is 'being like a mushroom' bu we know
>>better! :8)
>
> **very big grins** Ah. Now I get it. Just one thing, though... why
>does Polenth think she's a mushroom?! :)
i don't think you should ask that question.. :>
>Contention.
-- moon starr
DC.D f--- a- d+++ (m) CB&S WL++* L--- g- Z e FR++ h+ $-- i- s++ U
how 'bout me not blaming you for everything
how 'bout me enjoying the moment for once
how 'bout how good it feels to finally forgive you
how 'bout grieving it all one at a time
alanis morissette
dragonfly
>> "aren't dragons those big, ugly, red lizards?" i tend to scowl at them
>> :>
>
>Oh, I tend to start growling, even in my human form };=8}
that's just the draconic habits kicking in :>
>> hrm. well. my colours been changing recently.. from black to blue and
>> now i'm edging on red *grins* i'm a mood-dragon ;)
>
>Hehe..... Does one wear you as a ring or a pendant? };=8Ş
oo. pendants are pretty. i think i'm a pendant ;)
>--
>Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $
-- moon starr
dragonfly
>AFD, that she looked at it once and at the top of the list was a thread
>about "cooking gryphons in white sauce" and other such nastiness. I
>thought that was... *searches for words, finds none* ...bad, but I
>didn't base my opinion of the entire group on that.
>I also seem to recall she said that the person who started the thread
>was a gryphon and a troll.
sadly, there are such people around..
>Sparhawk, who was unable to read the group at the time
BluePard
> BluePard wrote:
> > Flame Stryke wrote:
> > > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
> > > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
> > > word };=8} )
> >
> > Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
> > Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
> >
>
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!
*deep breath, clutching chest*
Don't do that! Whew....
>
> Sparhawk, human, not that one can tell by lines of black text on a white
> screen
Well, I'm, at least, aware of it... me first thought on this matter was,
actually, the nice lady who ran the plushy shop (??? Goodness I have a
bad memory) and gave me a free BluePard plushy. Whilst I am not cute,
the plushy is. :)
BluePard
>
> >I believe I recall Bluepard making a statement back before she joined
> >AFD, that she looked at it once and at the top of the list was a thread
> >about "cooking gryphons in white sauce" and other such nastiness. I
> >thought that was... *searches for words, finds none* ...bad, but I
> >didn't base my opinion of the entire group on that.
> >I also seem to recall she said that the person who started the thread
> >was a gryphon and a troll.
Good memory, but I do believe you're referring to what Bry told me, and
I in turn told you... when Bry first showed up at AFD, it was in the
aftermath of a gryphtroll, hence his not posting immediately (or for 3
years afterwards), tho he did read the posts. I c'n see how one can be
so unsure, I never quite know about a NG until I see how they respond to
me personally. That was part o the reason I felt so glad his intro post
got so many replies, nice to beat him over the head with welcomeness
after all that.
When *I* first showed up on the NG, the first thread I saw was on
Anti-Human sentiments, sparked by a post whereupon a dragon had offered
someone a leg of a woman from a roast of humans. And I *still* felt
welcome, despite that the post made my typist feel rather sick (had an
even weaker stomach then). The original post was intended, I believe, as
irony but was not taken as such.
>
> sadly, there are such people around..
Mrowrl. Luckily, this place has less of them. :)
Wren Flametongue
<flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
>
>Wren Flametongue wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 03:02:16 GMT, Flame Stryke
>> <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>>
<Munch, in an Athelinde like fashion.>
>> >many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
>>
>> Hmm? Dont you mean they think in stereotypes?
>
>Um.....er.....yes..... It wouldn't do to be against stereotyping and then go and
>do it myself, now would it? };=8}
>
*grins*
<Munch in an 80's fashion guru style... ;=8D Now I'm being silly... >
>Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
>see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
>word };=8} )
>
<Wyrm mode>
You're intolerant of your typing mistakes?!! :8)
</Wyrm mode>
>--
>Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $
>m(d) o- e++++! CK:R
>Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
>Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
>UIN: 5589135
>"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the
>rest of your life."
> -- Flame Stryke
>
>"There is no greater waste as a waste of time." -- Anonymous
>
>
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Wren Flametongue
spake thusly:
>Greetings.
>
>Contention <Conte...@soaring.demon.co.uk> enscribed the following:
>>Polenth <pol...@polenth.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>Mushroomy? :)
>> It'll do. :)
>>Contention. (Woss Mushroomy, then? <g>)
>
>It's a portmanteau word combining Mushy and Roomy. When one is mushroomy
>one is very watery but has lots of space inside! :8)
>Of course, Polenth will state that it is 'being like a mushroom' bu we know
>better! :8)
>
LOL! Thankyou Wyrmy!!
Flame Stryke
dragonfly wrote:
> >> me neither. esp. when it comes to dragons. when some begins to say;
> >> "aren't dragons those big, ugly, red lizards?" i tend to scowl at them
> >> :>
> >
> >Oh, I tend to start growling, even in my human form };=8}
>
> that's just the draconic habits kicking in :>
Yup };=8} I tend to growl when I get annoyed at anything..... ppls usually stop
annoying me when I do };=8}
>
>
> >> hrm. well. my colours been changing recently.. from black to blue and
> >> now i'm edging on red *grins* i'm a mood-dragon ;)
> >
> >Hehe..... Does one wear you as a ring or a pendant? };=8Ş
>
> oo. pendants are pretty. i think i'm a pendant ;)
Does that mean I can go down to my local mood pendant store and ask for a moon starr?
};=8}
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d)
o- e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest
of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it." -- Anonymous
Flame Stryke
Sparhawk wrote:
> BluePard wrote:
> >
> > Flame Stryke wrote:
> [snipsnipsnippitysnip]
> > > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
> > > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
> > > word };=8} )
> >
> > Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
> > Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
> >
> > Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
>
> You RANG? :D
>
> Sparhawk, human, not that one can tell by lines of black text on a white
> screen
Well, I know that some humans do come here, but I was actually referring to the fact
that most humans wouldn't have anything to do with this group.....
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d)
o- e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest
of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"It's hard to fly with eagles when you work with turkeys." -- Anonymous
Flame Stryke
Wren Flametongue wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jan 1999 21:27:06 GMT, Flame Stryke
> <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
> >
> >
> >Wren Flametongue wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 03:02:16 GMT, Flame Stryke
> >> <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
> >>
> <Munch, in an Athelinde like fashion.>
> >> >many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
> >>
> >> Hmm? Dont you mean they think in stereotypes?
> >
> >Um.....er.....yes..... It wouldn't do to be against stereotyping and then go and
> >do it myself, now would it? };=8}
> >
>
> *grins*
>
> <Munch in an 80's fashion guru style... ;=8D Now I'm being silly... >
>
> >Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
> >see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
> >word };=8} )
> >
>
> <Wyrm mode>
>
> You're intolerant of your typing mistakes?!! :8)
No, I used to be the manager of the Dragon Typo Dictionary, until it became obsolete
and died (kinda like my HDD, but that just got formatted)
>
>
> </Wyrm mode>
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d)
o- e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest
of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"Many people quit looking for work when they find a job." -- Anonymous
Sparhawk
Flame Stryke wrote:
>
> Sparhawk wrote:
>
> > BluePard wrote:
> > >
> > > Flame Stryke wrote:
> > [snipsnipsnippitysnip]
> > > > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
> > > > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
> > > > word };=8} )
> > >
> > > Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
> > > Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
> > >
> > > Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
> >
> > You RANG? :D
> >
> > Sparhawk, human, not that one can tell by lines of black text on a white
> > screen
>
> Well, I know that some humans do come here, but I was actually referring to the fact
> that most humans wouldn't have anything to do with this group.....
Most humans wouldn't have anything to do with Usenet in general!
Sparhawk, who knows quite a few at school
Polenth
>**very big grins** Ah. Now I get it. Just one thing, though... why
>does Polenth think she's a mushroom?! :)
Why do you think I am not a mushroom? :)
Jrrhack Draco
Jrrhack Draco
Jrrhack Draco
<drag...@stormi.demon.co.uk> told:
> >Oh, I tend to start growling, even in my human form };=8}
> that's just the draconic habits kicking in :>
> >> hrm. well. my colours been changing recently.. from black to blue and
> >> now i'm edging on red *grins* i'm a mood-dragon ;)
"changing colours? hmm black, bue, red... it will finish in a rainbow.
:)
"Maybe you can open a Dwaggie Fashion party. Inks for scales, liquid
for polishing... forget it
> >Hehe..... Does one wear you as a ring or a pendant? };=8ç
> oo. pendants are pretty. i think i'm a pendant ;)
"Huh?
Teut
<laur...@wyrm.demon.co.uk> writes
>It's a portmanteau word combining Mushy and Roomy. When one is mushroomy
<dreadful pun>
Very roomy? I've seen these things, and there isn't mush room in them...
</dreadful pun>
Sorry :)
--
Teut
DC.D f++ s+ h++ Cb a++ $+ m- d+ WL++* fr-- L+ BF e? g
http://www.thebusstop.demon.co.uk/teut.htm
AOL users can IM "Flypery" but it is *not* an e-mail address
"In the red corner, a huge, fire-breathing, flying, invulnerable dragon. In the
blue corner, lots of little squishy things who fry if you sneeze on them and
starve if you burn their crops" - Paint Your Dragon, Tom Holt
Wren Flametongue
spake thusly:
>Greetings.
Gleetings Wyrm-san!
>Well, why does anyone consider themselves to be a fungal anomaly that
>appears at regular intervals to spread fungal spores about the environment?
>
<Star Trek voice>
Captain! We've encountered a fungal anomaly!
</Star Trek voice>
>Wyrm - Yer avin a larf! :8)
>
Wren - Alzo! ;=8P
>--
>Wyrm: http://www.wyrm.demon.co.uk/
>
>DC.D f++ s-- h++ CFire a+++++ $+ (m) d+++
> WL++ Fr++++ L700f BF e+++ g-- i+! U+++
>
>Dragon's, coming, out of the sea.
>Shimmering silver head of wisdom looking at me.
> Peter Gabriel - Genesis.
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Wren Flametongue
<flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
>
>Cerulean wrote:
>> Quoth Flame Stryke:
<Flame Stryke's stuff munched.>
>>
>> I was putting forth the notion that what you happened to say might not
>> be so different from what you meant to say. That is, people who
>> believe stereotypes tend to behave stereotypically themselves.
>
>Yes, but I don't see myself as stereotypical. The stereotypical dragon is red and
>breathes fire and belches noxious fumes and is evil and guards a hoard. I am one of
>those (namely I breathe fire) but none of the rest apply.
>
I'm green and not really evil (except when playing Dune 2000...
BWAHAHAHA!) and I dont breathe fire. I dont really have a hoard, and I
only belch noxious gases when I eat too much curry... ;=8P
So... none really applies to me...
>>
>>
>> >But, yes, I understand your standpoint, and it is valid. I used the wrong word,
>> >casting myself as a racist (or something like that) which I'm not. What I meant
"Your racist friend"?
>> >to say was that they use stereotypes too much, some even to the point of depending
>> >on them to even survive.....
>>
>> It's not really racist to say that there are stereotypical
>> individuals. When people choose to be what the media tell them they're
>> supposed to be, that's their fault. To say that someone is a
>> stereotype is to acknowledge that there are plenty of others in that
>> grouping who are _not_ like that person.
>
>Possibly, but I still believe that most humans rely on stereotypes too much. True,
>there are some who don't go around quoting stereotypes, but for the most part, humans
>rely on stereotypes more than any other species I've met. I'm not saying that some
>dragons or gryphs or some other creatures don't follow stereotypes, but they rely on
>them a lot less.
>
Why bother with stereotypes..? They dont work.
99.9999999% of people dont fit a stereotype...
("Round here, we just call it the O9 system." "You mean it doesnt
work?" "Dont be insulting, thats O as in Oni, a japanese double...")
>--
>Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d)
>o- e++++! CK:R
>Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
>Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
>UIN: 5589135
>"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest
>of your life."
> -- Flame Stryke
>
>"Don't let people drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance." --
>Anonymous
>
>
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Wren Flametongue
spake thusly:
>Flame Stryke wrote:
>> Wren Flametongue wrote:
>> >
>> > Hmm? Dont you mean they think in stereotypes?
>>
>> Um.....er.....yes..... It wouldn't do to be against stereotyping and then go and
>> do it myself, now would it? };=8}
>
>Well, most likely you do think in stereotypes... for the purposes of
>daily life, most people have to judge books by their covers, and despite
>what they preach will shy away from "a dangerous-looking character".
>It's only sense.
>
I guess so.
>On the other hand, those who believe stereotypes to be absolute truths
>are overestimating the value of first-sight judgement. I have yet to
>meet a person who can be assessed at a single glance, and the peeps on
>this NG prove that point about a book's cover. However, if a book's
>cover is pretty, I'm more likely to glance at the storyline. By your
>appearance you also set a tone for how people will see you. Appearence
>matters, quite a bit indeed.
>
It does...? Oh dear... *g*
>(not that I ever APPLY these points.... *rolls her eyes at herself*)
>
>> > Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
>> > nice black dragons well.
>
>*grins*
>
>Oh, setting up another stereotype, are we? Black dragons are nice, are
>they?
>
The ones I have met so far are.
>*grins*
>
>This is a hard subject to argue sometimes, ain't it? :)
Well... One is nice, but silly... another is nice, but often serious,
the third is nice... this isnt working at all...
*grin*
Of course, it isnt just black dragons who are nice... Blue pards
too... *g*
Of course "nice" is also one of those words that is complementary, but
means nothing...
>>
>> Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
>> see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
>> word };=8} )
>
>Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
>Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
>
>Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
*g*
Wren Flametongue
spake thusly:
>Sparhawk wrote:
>> BluePard wrote:
>> > Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
>> > Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
>> >
>> > Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
I believe in miracles...
>>
>> You RANG? :D
>
>EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!
>
>*deep breath, clutching chest*
>
>Don't do that! Whew....
>>
>> Sparhawk, human, not that one can tell by lines of black text on a white
>> screen
>
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!
It's a human!!!
;=8D
>Well, I'm, at least, aware of it... me first thought on this matter was,
>actually, the nice lady who ran the plushy shop (??? Goodness I have a
>bad memory) and gave me a free BluePard plushy. Whilst I am not cute,
>the plushy is. :)
BluePard plushy? Where? How much?
/me wants one.
>--
> _ - ___ \ BluePard, Lone Loopy Lupine Leopard Mage
> ,-------/.)- ( ` \ Born wingless into interesting times
> // \ ) )
>.------/`> \ / Don't be ashamed of the past,
>'- ( \ / it molds the present
> `-....-' \ _/
> ''''`'|'\ / `- BluePard(at)buffnet.net
>BP ( http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/palms/2115
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Wren Flametongue
<flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
>
>BluePard wrote:
>
>> Flame Stryke wrote:
>> > Wren Flametongue wrote:
>> > > On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 03:02:16 GMT, Flame Stryke
>> > > <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>> > > >dragonfly wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> think about it, the stereotype of dragons is; big, red, ugly and has bad
>> > > >> breath or breaths fire. *thats* what they were making fun out of..
>> > > >
>> > > >And _that's_ the real problem as I see it with this world -- the humans (and
>> > > >many other creatures) are _EXTREMELY_ stereotypical, which I really don't
>> > >
>> > > Hmm? Dont you mean they think in stereotypes?
>> >
>> > Um.....er.....yes..... It wouldn't do to be against stereotyping and then go and
>> > do it myself, now would it? };=8}
>>
>> Well, most likely you do think in stereotypes... for the purposes of
>> daily life, most people have to judge books by their covers, and despite
>> what they preach will shy away from "a dangerous-looking character".
>> It's only sense.
>
>I don't see that as a stereotype myself (or at least I didn't before) but I feel that
>I'm big and strong enough to give someone a second thought before trying anything so I
>generally don't avoid shady looking characters, nor do I approach them unless I have
>business either near or past them.
>
I still have the same approach to shady chracters I did back when I
didnt know I was a dragon...
Ignore them. (Unless I have reason to do otherwise)
Actually, one of my old human friends was a shady character...
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, those who believe stereotypes to be absolute truths
>> are overestimating the value of first-sight judgement. I have yet to
>> meet a person who can be assessed at a single glance, and the peeps on
>> this NG prove that point about a book's cover. However, if a book's
>> cover is pretty, I'm more likely to glance at the storyline. By your
>> appearance you also set a tone for how people will see you. Appearence
>> matters, quite a bit indeed.
>
>Possibly, but I generally don't judge a book by its cover or I never would have come
>here once I saw the posts in here. I think when I first saw this group there were
>about 4 separate food fights and a couple of RPs going on, and that's not what I was
>here for. I originally came here because of the title of the NG and I was a fan of
>dragons, at that time not knowing that I _was_ one. However, despite the cover on the
>book, to use the same analagy, I stayed and I joined in, and now it seems I'm here more
>or less permanently.
>
I came here because... it seemed the right thing to do... This place
looked so friendly and welcoming that... well...
>Also, if someone were to proclaim they were someone or something they didn't appear to
>be, I wouldn't apply a stereotype to them and say "He looks human so he's human," I
>accept that that's who or what they feel they are.
>
Look at Kai. Does he look like a draconid?
No. He does not.
But he is.
>>
>>
>> (not that I ever APPLY these points.... *rolls her eyes at herself*)
>>
>> > > Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
>> > > nice black dragons well.
>>
>> *grins*
>>
>> Oh, setting up another stereotype, are we? Black dragons are nice, are
>> they?
>
>This statement isn't really a stereotype, it's a comment based on experience. He met
>several black dragons who happened to be nice. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, as
>it's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that most ppls think of black dragons as evil, but
>I don't automatically assume that everyone trhinks I'm evil. I'm just trying to break
>that particular stereotype and in so doing break the "all dragons are evil" stereotype.
>
Exactly.
I know 3 nice, black dragons.
If I met another black dragon I wouldnt instantly assume it was nice,
but then I wouldnt assume it was evil either.
>>
>>
>> *grins*
>>
>> This is a hard subject to argue sometimes, ain't it? :)
>
>It can be if you don't feel confident about your points, but I don't feel I have this
>problem. Of course, anything anyone says about this will be opinion so there really is
>no right answers. The only wrong opinion you can ever have is one in which you lie to
>yourself, IMHO.
>
Truth, IMO.
>>
>> >
>> > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
>> > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
>> > word };=8} )
>>
>> Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
>> Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
>
>Some, yes, but not enough, really, to change them. A lot of the humans that visit this
>group open themselves up and so break the bonds of stereotypes, and in so doing they
>re-evaluate who and what they are. Some see themselves as the wrong gender, some of
>the wrong species, and some to be their true selves. But then they go out into the
>Real World and stereotypes start bogging them down. They want to fit in, so they
Pfeh. That is what I say to the "Real" world. Pfeh.
>reaccept the stereotypes around them. Which, I believe, is counter-productive to my
>original plan of this thread, which was to point out some of the stereotypes that are
>around and destroy them.
>
<Fanatic stereotypist>
Destroy the stereotypes, for they are evil scourges on the planet!!
</Fanatical stereotypist>
Hey, does that mean I typed from two places at once?
>>
>>
>> Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
>
>Possibly not a miracle worker, as these ppls looked in on their own, but in some cases
>we might be making a difference with this and some other threads, that cause ppls to
>open their minds and actually think for themselves.....
>
The mind is like a box. It must be opened to be used.
>--
>Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d)
>o- e++++! CK:R
>Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
>Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
>UIN: 5589135
>"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest
>of your life."
> -- Flame Stryke
>
>"Do not put statements in the negative form"
>
>
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Contention
>>**very big grins** Ah. Now I get it. Just one thing, though... why
>>does Polenth think she's a mushroom?! :)
>
>Why do you think I am not a mushroom? :)
Well, I haven't met you in person yet; I'm willing to keep an open
mind on the subject. I was just wondering why *you*... :P
(I mean, are you a particular shape? Colour? Do you tend to prosper
in damp climes? Mushrooms raised you? [As opposed to the other way
'round!] Whatwhatwhat?) :)
Quelonzia Stormdancer
Flametongue) pondered, and then rumbled:
>On Thu, 07 Jan 1999 21:27:06 GMT, Flame Stryke
><flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
>>
>>
>>Wren Flametongue wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 03:02:16 GMT, Flame Stryke
>>> <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>>>
><Munch, in an Athelinde like fashion.>
Now, THAT's a stereotype! <G>
Quelonzia Stormdancer, Athelind's mate ;>
---
' ' "...And as full of wonder in this ancient age,
) ( As ever I was when I was but a child...
( ) Standing upon tiptoe, reaching for stars,
{ o o } And dreaming of wings with which to soar."
\)(/ ~reflections in an ocean of souls~
(oo) Home page: http://www.dragonfire.org/~lonzia
vv Email to: lon...@dragonfire.org
nugator
>On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:48:49 GMT, Flame Stryke
><flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>>
>>
>>Cerulean wrote:
>>> Quoth Flame Stryke:
><Flame Stryke's stuff munched.>
>>>
>>> I was putting forth the notion that what you happened to say might not
>>> be so different from what you meant to say. That is, people who
>>> believe stereotypes tend to behave stereotypically themselves.
>>
>>Yes, but I don't see myself as stereotypical. The stereotypical dragon is red and
>>breathes fire and belches noxious fumes and is evil and guards a hoard. I am one of
>>those (namely I breathe fire) but none of the rest apply.
>>
>I'm green and not really evil (except when playing Dune 2000...
>BWAHAHAHA!) and I dont breathe fire. I dont really have a hoard, and I
>only belch noxious gases when I eat too much curry... ;=8P
>So... none really applies to me...
Of course with dragons, one has a bit more freedom than one might in,
say, unicorns. At least with dragons, the general populace
acknowleges the presence of more than one cultural standard. Unicorns
tend to be expected much more to all be either white or, on occasion,
pastel, beautiful, pure, wise, perfectly good...
>>>
>>>
>>> >But, yes, I understand your standpoint, and it is valid. I used the wrong word,
>>> >casting myself as a racist (or something like that) which I'm not. What I meant
>"Your racist friend"?
>>> >to say was that they use stereotypes too much, some even to the point of depending
>>> >on them to even survive.....
>>>
>>> It's not really racist to say that there are stereotypical
>>> individuals. When people choose to be what the media tell them they're
>>> supposed to be, that's their fault.
Or their choice. I used to know a guy who was about as
stereotypically gay as one can possibly be, but he didn't do it
because it was expected of him, as far as I know; he did it because
that was who he was and what felt natural to him. I'm not sure if he
was even aware of it. It just happened to correspond to a standing
societal image.
>>>To say that someone is a
>>> stereotype is to acknowledge that there are plenty of others in that
>>> grouping who are _not_ like that person.
>>
<nods> when you get right down to it, each and every stereotype had
to start with some sort of experience of an actual person or group of
random people. I doubt if anyone creates a stereotype out of thin air
because it just sounds fun and interesting
>>Possibly, but I still believe that most humans rely on stereotypes too much. True,
>>there are some who don't go around quoting stereotypes, but for the most part, humans
>>rely on stereotypes more than any other species I've met. I'm not saying that some
>>dragons or gryphs or some other creatures don't follow stereotypes, but they rely on
>>them a lot less.
>>
If you're saying that humans as a sentient species tend to interact
according to preset assumptions based on stereotypical information and
penalize, shun, or punish those who fail to fit these assumptions
sufficiently, then yes, we/they (denepnding on how you look at it) do
tend to do that far more than is really necessary. Whether other
species do it more or less, though, i don't know. But isn't it ironic
that even in talking about humankind overgeneralizing its members, we
are in effect generalizing ourselves? <wrygrin>
>Why bother with stereotypes..? They dont work.
>99.9999999% of people dont fit a stereotype...
For those that use them, probably because it makes meeting strangers
less threatening by making them less unfamiliar and because it means
that they don't have to try as hard to understand each person/sentient
as an individual every moment. Not necessarily a good reason, but no
one ever said that sentients are always necessarily logical.
>("Round here, we just call it the O9 system." "You mean it doesnt
>work?" "Dont be insulting, thats O as in Oni, a japanese double...")
<raises eyeridges>
>Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Dester'edra
--
Dester'edra Cloudancer of Amoraegrarum Somniare
DC.Df*s+h+a$--(d)WL++*Fr+L25cmt45cmg-e+mCLB>aqua:V^DSwTiridescentBmusic
"Blessed are they that can laugh at themselves,
for they will never cease to be amused."
draconum<at>mindspring<dot>com
Pull fish from address to reply
Contention
>Of course with dragons, one has a bit more freedom than one might in,
>say, unicorns. At least with dragons, the general populace
>acknowleges the presence of more than one cultural standard. Unicorns
>tend to be expected much more to all be either white or, on occasion,
>pastel, beautiful, pure, wise, perfectly good...
Ever read "The Elvenbane"? That had Dragons who were very much
people; it also had single-horned creatures of striking beauty who just
happened to be stark, raving, I'm-a-psychopath-and-proud-of-it type
mad... :)
Flame Stryke
Wren Flametongue wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:48:49 GMT, Flame Stryke
> <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
> >
> >
> >Cerulean wrote:
> >> Quoth Flame Stryke:
> <Flame Stryke's stuff munched.>
> >>
> >> I was putting forth the notion that what you happened to say might not
> >> be so different from what you meant to say. That is, people who
> >> believe stereotypes tend to behave stereotypically themselves.
> >
> >Yes, but I don't see myself as stereotypical. The stereotypical dragon is red and
> >breathes fire and belches noxious fumes and is evil and guards a hoard. I am one of
> >those (namely I breathe fire) but none of the rest apply.
> >
>
> I'm green and not really evil (except when playing Dune 2000...
> BWAHAHAHA!) and I dont breathe fire. I dont really have a hoard, and I
> only belch noxious gases when I eat too much curry... ;=8P
>
> So... none really applies to me...
There you go. Now, if only the ppls who subscribe to these stereotypes could see _that_!!
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >But, yes, I understand your standpoint, and it is valid. I used the wrong word,
> >> >casting myself as a racist (or something like that) which I'm not. What I meant
>
> "Your racist friend"?
Excuse me? Did I miss something?
>
>
> >> >to say was that they use stereotypes too much, some even to the point of depending
> >> >on them to even survive.....
> >>
> >> It's not really racist to say that there are stereotypical
> >> individuals. When people choose to be what the media tell them they're
> >> supposed to be, that's their fault. To say that someone is a
> >> stereotype is to acknowledge that there are plenty of others in that
> >> grouping who are _not_ like that person.
> >
> >Possibly, but I still believe that most humans rely on stereotypes too much. True,
> >there are some who don't go around quoting stereotypes, but for the most part, humans
> >rely on stereotypes more than any other species I've met. I'm not saying that some
> >dragons or gryphs or some other creatures don't follow stereotypes, but they rely on
> >them a lot less.
> >
>
> Why bother with stereotypes..? They dont work.
>
> 99.9999999% of people dont fit a stereotype...
Yes, and 42.3% of statistics are meaningless..... Besides, it's not the fact that ppls
don't fit stereotypes, it's that about as many ppls need stereotypes to survive and so
create them anyway.....
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d) o-
e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest of
your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"It's hard to fly with eagles when you work with turkeys." -- Anonymous
Flame Stryke
Jrrhack Draco wrote:
> > >Hehe..... Does one wear you as a ring or a pendant? };=8ç
> > oo. pendants are pretty. i think i'm a pendant ;)
>
> "Huh?
That's in response to the "mood dragon" part above. I trust you've heard of
"mood rings"? };=8}
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h---
$ m(d) o- e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for
the rest of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"It's wide and it's flat and it's wet at both ends, it's full of donuts,
hockey, cold beer and friends. It's got a tower, some lakes and a dome. And
it's hard to get a green card but we call it home." -- Red Green
Flame Stryke
Wren Flametongue wrote:
Well, when I was young (when this body was, anyway) I tended to avod thos ppls. Of course,
I tended to avoid everyone and everything that I didn't know. Now, however, I don't avoid
trouble, I just don't go looking for it. For example, the class bully. I wasn't the bully,
but there were a couple of ppls that were. If I saw them bullying someone, if I wasn't
going near them in the first place, I kept on going. If, however, my path led directly to
them, I would put a stop to it one way or another. But never do I go looking for trouble
and rarely does trouble come looking for me.....
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> On the other hand, those who believe stereotypes to be absolute truths
> >> are overestimating the value of first-sight judgement. I have yet to
> >> meet a person who can be assessed at a single glance, and the peeps on
> >> this NG prove that point about a book's cover. However, if a book's
> >> cover is pretty, I'm more likely to glance at the storyline. By your
> >> appearance you also set a tone for how people will see you. Appearence
> >> matters, quite a bit indeed.
> >
> >Possibly, but I generally don't judge a book by its cover or I never would have come
> >here once I saw the posts in here. I think when I first saw this group there were
> >about 4 separate food fights and a couple of RPs going on, and that's not what I was
> >here for. I originally came here because of the title of the NG and I was a fan of
> >dragons, at that time not knowing that I _was_ one. However, despite the cover on the
> >book, to use the same analagy, I stayed and I joined in, and now it seems I'm here more
> >or less permanently.
> >
>
> I came here because... it seemed the right thing to do... This place
> looked so friendly and welcoming that... well...
That's why most ppls (and others) come here in the first place -- because they like the
company they see.
>
>
> >Also, if someone were to proclaim they were someone or something they didn't appear to
> >be, I wouldn't apply a stereotype to them and say "He looks human so he's human," I
> >accept that that's who or what they feel they are.
> >
>
> Look at Kai. Does he look like a draconid?
>
> No. He does not.
>
> But he is.
My point exactly.
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> (not that I ever APPLY these points.... *rolls her eyes at herself*)
> >>
> >> > > Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
> >> > > nice black dragons well.
> >>
> >> *grins*
> >>
> >> Oh, setting up another stereotype, are we? Black dragons are nice, are
> >> they?
> >
> >This statement isn't really a stereotype, it's a comment based on experience. He met
> >several black dragons who happened to be nice. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, as
> >it's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that most ppls think of black dragons as evil, but
> >I don't automatically assume that everyone trhinks I'm evil. I'm just trying to break
> >that particular stereotype and in so doing break the "all dragons are evil" stereotype.
> >
>
> Exactly.
>
> I know 3 nice, black dragons.
>
> If I met another black dragon I wouldnt instantly assume it was nice,
> but then I wouldnt assume it was evil either.
With most dragons I see them as friends. If, however, they break that trust I have placed
on them, I tend to treat them the same as shady ppls -- I don't avoid them, nor do I seek
them out. If our paths happen to cross, so be it.
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> *grins*
> >>
> >> This is a hard subject to argue sometimes, ain't it? :)
> >
> >It can be if you don't feel confident about your points, but I don't feel I have this
> >problem. Of course, anything anyone says about this will be opinion so there really is
> >no right answers. The only wrong opinion you can ever have is one in which you lie to
> >yourself, IMHO.
> >
>
> Truth, IMO.
>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
> >> > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
> >> > word };=8} )
> >>
> >> Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
> >> Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
> >
> >Some, yes, but not enough, really, to change them. A lot of the humans that visit this
> >group open themselves up and so break the bonds of stereotypes, and in so doing they
> >re-evaluate who and what they are. Some see themselves as the wrong gender, some of
> >the wrong species, and some to be their true selves. But then they go out into the
> >Real World and stereotypes start bogging them down. They want to fit in, so they
>
> Pfeh. That is what I say to the "Real" world. Pfeh.
That's what I would love to say as well, but unfortunately I have to live in it. After a
while, I will be able to change the perceptions of that world, but as of yet I am bound in
the stereotypes of that world.
>
>
> >reaccept the stereotypes around them. Which, I believe, is counter-productive to my
> >original plan of this thread, which was to point out some of the stereotypes that are
> >around and destroy them.
> >
>
> <Fanatic stereotypist>
>
> Destroy the stereotypes, for they are evil scourges on the planet!!
That's not exactly the way I pictured it, but some stereotypes do have to go. Some, as
someone pointed out in this thread, are beneficial, but others are detrimental, and it's the
detrimental ones I think should be removed.....
>
>
> </Fanatical stereotypist>
>
> Hey, does that mean I typed from two places at once?
I sincerely doubt it..... That would mean there are two Wren's, and I don't think we can
handle even one!! };=8Ş
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
> >
> >Possibly not a miracle worker, as these ppls looked in on their own, but in some cases
> >we might be making a difference with this and some other threads, that cause ppls to
> >open their minds and actually think for themselves.....
> >
>
> The mind is like a box. It must be opened to be used.
Unfortunately, most of the ppls who subscribe to stereotypes either don't know how, can't,
or won't open their minds.....
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d) o-
e++++! CK:R
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest of
your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking." -- Anonymous
Polenth
>Polenth <pol...@polenth.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>**very big grins** Ah. Now I get it. Just one thing, though... why
>>>does Polenth think she's a mushroom?! :)
>>
>>Why do you think I am not a mushroom? :)
>
> Well, I haven't met you in person yet; I'm willing to keep an open
>mind on the subject. I was just wondering why *you*... :P
>
> (I mean, are you a particular shape? Colour? Do you tend to prosper
>in damp climes? Mushrooms raised you? [As opposed to the other way
>'round!] Whatwhatwhat?) :)
I have a mushroom as a totem 'fruit'. 'Tis Ganederma lucidinum (sp?).
And I like mushrooms. I draw pictures of them everywhere. :)
Rai
>BluePard <blue...@buffNOT.net spake thusly:
>>Sparhawk wrote:
>>> BluePard wrote:
>>> > Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
>
>I believe in miracles...
You sexy thing. ;=8D
--
_________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) ~~ Samurai ~~
| \ \ DC.D f+s+h--CK^K a $-m-d++WL++Fr L12m BW e++g--i--!
\ `^--^
\ \ \ Please note Reply-To: header now set. Fish begone!
ksj ^--^ _________________________________________________________
BluePard
> Wren Flametongue wrote:
> > On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 05:05:32 GMT, Flame Stryke
> > <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
> > >BluePard wrote:
> > >> Flame Stryke wrote:
> > >> > Um.....er.....yes..... It wouldn't do to be against stereotyping and then go and
> > >> > do it myself, now would it? };=8}
> > >>
> > >> Well, most likely you do think in stereotypes... for the purposes of
> > >> daily life, most people have to judge books by their covers, and despite
> > >> what they preach will shy away from "a dangerous-looking character".
> > >> It's only sense.
> > >
> > >I don't see that as a stereotype myself (or at least I didn't before) but I feel that
> > >I'm big and strong enough to give someone a second thought before trying anything so I
> > >generally don't avoid shady looking characters, nor do I approach them unless I have
> > >business either near or past them.
*thinks a moment*
It would not be a stereotype in the sense of "all so-and-so's are like
this" before you've even seen them, but a stereotype in the sense that
"this person has these and these attributes, so I think he's like this".
Well, it's kind of hard to explain the difference...
> > >
> >
> > I still have the same approach to shady chracters I did back when I
> > didnt know I was a dragon...
> >
> > Ignore them. (Unless I have reason to do otherwise)
*grins*
Actually, my reaction is to avoid them if I'm alone. But then, I avoid
ALL people when I'm alone, because I'm alone because I *want* to be
alone... so I suppose that dinnae count? :)
> >
> > Actually, one of my old human friends was a shady character...
I dunno about shady characters, but a lot o me friends look like
vampires. :)
>
> Well, when I was young (when this body was, anyway) I tended to avod thos ppls. Of course,
> I tended to avoid everyone and everything that I didn't know. Now, however, I don't avoid
> trouble, I just don't go looking for it. For example, the class bully. I wasn't the bully,
> but there were a couple of ppls that were. If I saw them bullying someone, if I wasn't
> going near them in the first place, I kept on going. If, however, my path led directly to
> them, I would put a stop to it one way or another. But never do I go looking for trouble
> and rarely does trouble come looking for me.....
Dat's good. Usually trouble comes looking for me, but then, that's
because I'm the quick-to-punch type. I suppose someday I should learn
how to talk my way out of those sorts of things, since I can't really
punch...
> > >>
> > >> On the other hand, those who believe stereotypes to be absolute truths
> > >> are overestimating the value of first-sight judgement. I have yet to
> > >> meet a person who can be assessed at a single glance, and the peeps on
> > >> this NG prove that point about a book's cover. However, if a book's
> > >> cover is pretty, I'm more likely to glance at the storyline. By your
> > >> appearance you also set a tone for how people will see you. Appearence
> > >> matters, quite a bit indeed.
> > >
> > >Possibly, but I generally don't judge a book by its cover or I never would have come
> > >here once I saw the posts in here.
Same here, as I recently mentioned elsewhere, the first thread I read in
here was about anti-human sentiments in the NG. But then, I got a
feeling from the group, and I based it on that...
> > > I think when I first saw this group there were
> > >about 4 separate food fights and a couple of RPs going on, and that's not what I was
> > >here for. I originally came here because of the title of the NG and I was a fan of
> > >dragons, at that time not knowing that I _was_ one. However, despite the cover on the
> > >book, to use the same analagy, I stayed and I joined in, and now it seems I'm here more
> > >or less permanently.
I have done the same in some cases... I know a NG is about what I like,
so I'll check in until I see what I like. NGs change like anything else.
> >
> > I came here because... it seemed the right thing to do... This place
> > looked so friendly and welcoming that... well...
>
> That's why most ppls (and others) come here in the first place -- because they like the
> company they see.
Hrmmm. Personally I'd had this NG recommended to me for months before I
gave it a chance... I didn't really want to come, I was just really
bored one day and checked it out. I grow weary of the one-thousand and
three books about dragons, figged it'd be the same fer a NG...
> >
> > >Also, if someone were to proclaim they were someone or something they didn't appear to
> > >be, I wouldn't apply a stereotype to them and say "He looks human so he's human," I
> > >accept that that's who or what they feel they are.
*shrugs* I've been known to believe---or at least not judge---some
pretty unrational things in my time, because I had no proof to the
contrary and a friend told me they believed fully this was true. 'Tis
along the lines of "Who am I to judge the nature of others' souls?"
> >
> > Look at Kai. Does he look like a draconid?
> >
> > No. He does not.
> >
> > But he is.
>
> My point exactly.
I don't know him, but every time you talk about him I think of King Kai
(or Kaiosama, which is the greatest name to say... well, there is
Panthera, which I like saying... actually, I gotta a lot o lovely-to-say
char names...)
> > >>
> > >> (not that I ever APPLY these points.... *rolls her eyes at herself*)
> > >>
> > >> > > Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
> > >> > > nice black dragons well.
> > >>
> > >> *grins*
> > >>
> > >> Oh, setting up another stereotype, are we? Black dragons are nice, are
> > >> they?
> > >
> > >This statement isn't really a stereotype, it's a comment based on experience. He met
> > >several black dragons who happened to be nice. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, as
> > >it's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that most ppls think of black dragons as evil, but
> > >I don't automatically assume that everyone trhinks I'm evil. I'm just trying to break
> > >that particular stereotype and in so doing break the "all dragons are evil" stereotype.
I've never heard an "all black dragons are evil" stereotype, but am well
aware most associate black with evil and serpents/dragons with it as
well. Personally I often associate black with good instead, for darkness
is great to one of the night like a pard.
Anyhoo, once you begin attempting to set up a reverse-opinion like that,
you begin to build another stereotype or prejudice. Many today have
complained that measures for gender equality have backfired and instead
now that males are being prejudiced against, the same with most
minorities and majorities (but reversed, since in actuality females are
in the majority and males the minority)
Most people don't think dragons exist in the first place, anyhoo.
*shrugs*
> >
> > Exactly.
> >
> > I know 3 nice, black dragons.
I know some, but haven't counted---I rarely know the color of people
unless they advertise it (ie. Cereleun, Bluedragon, Black Fang...)
> >
> > If I met another black dragon I wouldnt instantly assume it was nice,
> > but then I wouldnt assume it was evil either.
>
> With most dragons I see them as friends. If, however, they break that trust I have placed
> on them, I tend to treat them the same as shady ppls -- I don't avoid them, nor do I seek
> them out. If our paths happen to cross, so be it.
*shrugs* I see most dragons as I see most people of any type---they
could be good or bad, let them talk a minute and you'll know enough to
start to slide one way or the other. It's hard to stay neutral long.
> > >>
> > >> *grins*
> > >>
> > >> This is a hard subject to argue sometimes, ain't it? :)
> > >
> > >It can be if you don't feel confident about your points, but I don't feel I have this
> > >problem. Of course, anything anyone says about this will be opinion so there really is
> > >no right answers. The only wrong opinion you can ever have is one in which you lie to
> > >yourself, IMHO.
It can be hard to argue this because it's so easy to not say things as
you mean them, or be misinterpreted. And when you're confident about
your points but then someone misreads them and refutes them, it is then
that the conversation can be hard.
> > >> >
> > >> > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
> > >> > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
> > >> > word };=8} )
> > >>
> > >> Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
> > >> Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
> > >
> > >Some, yes, but not enough, really, to change them.
Believe me, you don't want the majority of humans reading this group.
There have been many a conversation about what to roast humans with on
this group, about how prejudiced humans are, about how someone'd just
like to stomp them all, about what the stupid greggils have done to this
person today, about how humans are inferior, for you to want humans to
read this group. Those who came here did so because they are
understanding individuals, or loud-mouthed and ready to argue. Well, I
have yet to see the later, actually, but even this wonderful NG is not
something I'd show to anyone I did not judge level-headed.
> > > A lot of the humans that visit this
> > >group open themselves up and so break the bonds of stereotypes, and in so doing they
> > >re-evaluate who and what they are. Some see themselves as the wrong gender, some of
> > >the wrong species, and some to be their true selves. But then they go out into the
> > >Real World and stereotypes start bogging them down. They want to fit in, so they
I'm sure anyone who's here gets annoyed with stereotypes after a while.
> >
> > Pfeh. That is what I say to the "Real" world. Pfeh.
_Napoleon_
(don't ask about the title)
I don't want to deal with the real world anymore.
Frightening, my dreams come falling down.
I don't want to deal with the real world anymore.
Not in my thoughts, but stranded on the ground.
Tears fill my eyes as I whisper sweeter lies
Why did it have to come to this?
I told them what'd inition with no kind of precognition
Forgiveness is now all that I wish
I only asked one thing in my life
A pompous thing, in a pompous tone
Quiet in the corner, shading eyes
I dared to ask that I be left alone
Don't hurt me there, that won't mend...I would like to recommend
"---nevermind, you are without say"
If you try to do more harm I guarentee to your alarm
To meet my threats in every single way
But then my heart will interject, strangle-hold upon my neck---
In the end, I'm the one to pay
Tears fill my eyes as I whisper sweeter lies
I will recover, reborn, someday.
---
Come up with a subject, I'll have come up with a poem 'bout it. ;)
> That's what I would love to say as well, but unfortunately I have to live in it. After a
> while, I will be able to change the perceptions of that world, but as of yet I am bound in
> the stereotypes of that world.
The real world... wouldn't be so bad if I could be in trueform again...
human form gives me human tendencies... can see everything two ways.,...
things I'd never consider now second nature in trueform... things I do
now that I enjoy but would hate in trueform... eh, I sense this life has
screwed up my senses permanently. Even if I were to get back to
trueform, now, I'd miss some things about my human self. 'Tis a pity
that I connect body and soul so tightly...
Nice rabbit trail, tho.
> >
> > >reaccept the stereotypes around them. Which, I believe, is counter-productive to my
> > >original plan of this thread, which was to point out some of the stereotypes that are
> > >around and destroy them.
I have no idea what you just said.
Personally, I wasn't trying to point out stereotypes and destroy them at
all, just gain a new perspective, which is commonly my goal...
> >
> > <Fanatic stereotypist>
> >
> > Destroy the stereotypes, for they are evil scourges on the planet!!
>
> That's not exactly the way I pictured it, but some stereotypes do have to go. Some, as
> someone pointed out in this thread, are beneficial, but others are detrimental, and it's the
> detrimental ones I think should be removed.....
In yas dreams! Granted, I'm always searching to improve myself, but I
have my serious doubts as to the nature o others. There are a lot o
things I'd get rid of in the world before I'd get rid o stereotypes, but
my view is a biased one in any case, and I'm not (nor are you) the one
to decide what is good for all. Eh.
> >
> > </Fanatical stereotypist>
> >
> > Hey, does that mean I typed from two places at once?
No, it means you shoulda used the word "Stereotyper" :)
>
> I sincerely doubt it..... That would mean there are two Wren's, and I don't think we can
> handle even one!! };=8P
(extended ascii character replaced with standard to keep people's
comps/newsreaders from crashing...)
> > >>
> > >> Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
> > >
> > >Possibly not a miracle worker, as these ppls looked in on their own,
How do you know? You don't think I tell people about this group?
Goodness knows *I* found out about it from other members...
> > > but in some cases
> > >we might be making a difference with this and some other threads, that cause ppls to
> > >open their minds and actually think for themselves.....
Or maybe to open their minds and realize that they must consider
themselves when they talk about people in general... the number who just
sorta skip themselves... :)
> >
> > The mind is like a box. It must be opened to be used.
Nonono, you can use a closed box. To keep things in. The quote is:
"A mind is like a parachute: it only functions when open."
>
> Unfortunately, most of the ppls who subscribe to stereotypes either don't know how, can't,
> or won't open their minds.....
Actually, I know a good number who do... as pointed out by someone
elsewhere, by subscribing to stereotypes you become one, thus by saying
that about people subscribing to stereotypes you have yourself
subscribed to a stereotype.
On the other hand, in considering myself an open-minded person, I also
feel completely justified in darning PCness for all it's worth.
BluePard
> Quoth Peter.G...@btinternet.com (Wren Flametongue):
> >BluePard <blue...@buffNOT.net spake thusly:
> >>Sparhawk wrote:
> >>> BluePard wrote:
> >
>
> You sexy thing. ;=8D
*blinks*
Are you quite all right, rai? Been in the bottle again?
Wren Flametongue
<Conte...@soaring.demon.co.uk> spake thusly:
>Dest'wossface <draconum...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Of course with dragons, one has a bit more freedom than one might in,
>>say, unicorns. At least with dragons, the general populace
>>acknowleges the presence of more than one cultural standard. Unicorns
>>tend to be expected much more to all be either white or, on occasion,
>>pastel, beautiful, pure, wise, perfectly good...
>
> Ever read "The Elvenbane"? That had Dragons who were very much
>people; it also had single-horned creatures of striking beauty who just
>happened to be stark, raving, I'm-a-psychopath-and-proud-of-it type
>mad... :)
>
Not fergetting Pratchettian Unicorns... who are just as bad as the
elves... ;=8P
Although I'm not too fond of his portrayal of dragons...
>
>Contention.
>--
>Andrew J. Shore, Contention-among-dragons.
>[DC2.D CHshadesofB Gm a(d+/+++! h-) L* w pWLF BL
>f++ r+ s+ Fr--* U+++! i+! h+ $ m- e++++]
>"Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons - for you are crunchy, and taste good
>with ketchup!" - Uni of Warwick lamppost.
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Wren Flametongue
<flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
>
>Wren Flametongue wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:48:49 GMT, Flame Stryke
>> <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >Cerulean wrote:
>> >> Quoth Flame Stryke:
>> <Flame Stryke's stuff munched.>
>> >>
>> >> I was putting forth the notion that what you happened to say might not
>> >> be so different from what you meant to say. That is, people who
>> >> believe stereotypes tend to behave stereotypically themselves.
>> >
>> >Yes, but I don't see myself as stereotypical. The stereotypical dragon is red and
>> >breathes fire and belches noxious fumes and is evil and guards a hoard. I am one of
>> >those (namely I breathe fire) but none of the rest apply.
>> >
>>
>> I'm green and not really evil (except when playing Dune 2000...
>> BWAHAHAHA!) and I dont breathe fire. I dont really have a hoard, and I
>> only belch noxious gases when I eat too much curry... ;=8P
>>
>> So... none really applies to me...
>
>There you go. Now, if only the ppls who subscribe to these stereotypes could see _that_!!
>
*nods(
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >But, yes, I understand your standpoint, and it is valid. I used the wrong word,
>> >> >casting myself as a racist (or something like that) which I'm not. What I meant
>>
>> "Your racist friend"?
>
>Excuse me? Did I miss something?
>
Only a reference to a severely wonderful band... "They might be
giants"
They write very strange songs, including "Particle Man", "Exquisite
dead guy", "Shoehorn with teeth" and, of course... "Your racist
friend"
In case you're wondering, they're the same band who wrote "Istanbul
(Not constantinople)" and "Birdhouse in your soul" too...
>>
>>
>> >> >to say was that they use stereotypes too much, some even to the point of depending
>> >> >on them to even survive.....
>> >>
>> >> It's not really racist to say that there are stereotypical
>> >> individuals. When people choose to be what the media tell them they're
>> >> supposed to be, that's their fault. To say that someone is a
>> >> stereotype is to acknowledge that there are plenty of others in that
>> >> grouping who are _not_ like that person.
>> >
>> >Possibly, but I still believe that most humans rely on stereotypes too much. True,
>> >there are some who don't go around quoting stereotypes, but for the most part, humans
>> >rely on stereotypes more than any other species I've met. I'm not saying that some
>> >dragons or gryphs or some other creatures don't follow stereotypes, but they rely on
>> >them a lot less.
>> >
>>
>> Why bother with stereotypes..? They dont work.
>>
>> 99.9999999% of people dont fit a stereotype...
>
>Yes, and 42.3% of statistics are meaningless..... Besides, it's not the fact that ppls
>don't fit stereotypes, it's that about as many ppls need stereotypes to survive and so
>create them anyway.....
>
Oh dear... shameful... ;=8P
>--
>Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d) o-
>e++++! CK:R
>Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
>Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
>UIN: 5589135
>"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest of
>your life."
> -- Flame Stryke
>
>"It's hard to fly with eagles when you work with turkeys." -- Anonymous
>
>
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Wren Flametongue
<flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
Trouble tends to seek me out, so I dont bother to avoid it... I just
do my best to deal with it.
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On the other hand, those who believe stereotypes to be absolute truths
>> >> are overestimating the value of first-sight judgement. I have yet to
>> >> meet a person who can be assessed at a single glance, and the peeps on
>> >> this NG prove that point about a book's cover. However, if a book's
>> >> cover is pretty, I'm more likely to glance at the storyline. By your
>> >> appearance you also set a tone for how people will see you. Appearence
>> >> matters, quite a bit indeed.
>> >
>> >Possibly, but I generally don't judge a book by its cover or I never would have come
>> >here once I saw the posts in here. I think when I first saw this group there were
>> >about 4 separate food fights and a couple of RPs going on, and that's not what I was
>> >here for. I originally came here because of the title of the NG and I was a fan of
>> >dragons, at that time not knowing that I _was_ one. However, despite the cover on the
>> >book, to use the same analagy, I stayed and I joined in, and now it seems I'm here more
>> >or less permanently.
>> >
>>
>> I came here because... it seemed the right thing to do... This place
>> looked so friendly and welcoming that... well...
>
>That's why most ppls (and others) come here in the first place -- because they like the
>company they see.
>
And why not. It's great company. I love you all.
>>
>>
>> >Also, if someone were to proclaim they were someone or something they didn't appear to
>> >be, I wouldn't apply a stereotype to them and say "He looks human so he's human," I
>> >accept that that's who or what they feel they are.
>> >
>>
>> Look at Kai. Does he look like a draconid?
>>
>> No. He does not.
>>
>> But he is.
>
>My point exactly.
>
Thankyou.
<Munch>
>> >> > > Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
>> >> > > nice black dragons well.
>> >>
>> >> *grins*
>> >>
>> >> Oh, setting up another stereotype, are we? Black dragons are nice, are
>> >> they?
>> >
>> >This statement isn't really a stereotype, it's a comment based on experience. He met
>> >several black dragons who happened to be nice. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, as
>> >it's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that most ppls think of black dragons as evil, but
>> >I don't automatically assume that everyone trhinks I'm evil. I'm just trying to break
>> >that particular stereotype and in so doing break the "all dragons are evil" stereotype.
>> >
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
>> I know 3 nice, black dragons.
>>
>> If I met another black dragon I wouldnt instantly assume it was nice,
>> but then I wouldnt assume it was evil either.
>
>With most dragons I see them as friends. If, however, they break that trust I have placed
>on them, I tend to treat them the same as shady ppls -- I don't avoid them, nor do I seek
>them out. If our paths happen to cross, so be it.
>
Same here. I tend to treat most non-humans as friends, unless they
prove otherwise.
<Munchies!>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
>> >> > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
>> >> > word };=8} )
>> >>
>> >> Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
>> >> Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
>> >
>> >Some, yes, but not enough, really, to change them. A lot of the humans that visit this
>> >group open themselves up and so break the bonds of stereotypes, and in so doing they
>> >re-evaluate who and what they are. Some see themselves as the wrong gender, some of
>> >the wrong species, and some to be their true selves. But then they go out into the
>> >Real World and stereotypes start bogging them down. They want to fit in, so they
>>
>> Pfeh. That is what I say to the "Real" world. Pfeh.
>
>That's what I would love to say as well, but unfortunately I have to live in it. After a
>while, I will be able to change the perceptions of that world, but as of yet I am bound in
>the stereotypes of that world.
>
I say it anyway... (and then I wonder why peeps tend to think I'm some
kinda freak... it's because I am! I'm a freaky draconid and proud of
it! ;=8P )
>>
>>
>> >reaccept the stereotypes around them. Which, I believe, is counter-productive to my
>> >original plan of this thread, which was to point out some of the stereotypes that are
>> >around and destroy them.
>> >
>>
>> <Fanatic stereotypist>
>>
>> Destroy the stereotypes, for they are evil scourges on the planet!!
>
>That's not exactly the way I pictured it, but some stereotypes do have to go. Some, as
>someone pointed out in this thread, are beneficial, but others are detrimental, and it's the
>detrimental ones I think should be removed.....
>
I was just joking around there... still, if my jokes make peeps
think... then they are more than mere jokes.
>>
>>
>> </Fanatical stereotypist>
>>
>> Hey, does that mean I typed from two places at once?
>
>I sincerely doubt it..... That would mean there are two Wren's, and I don't think we can
>handle even one!! };=8Ş
>
*chuckles in stereo*
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
>> >
>> >Possibly not a miracle worker, as these ppls looked in on their own, but in some cases
>> >we might be making a difference with this and some other threads, that cause ppls to
>> >open their minds and actually think for themselves.....
>> >
>>
>> The mind is like a box. It must be opened to be used.
>
>Unfortunately, most of the ppls who subscribe to stereotypes either don't know how, can't,
>or won't open their minds.....
>
I feel severe pity for those who dont know how/cant.
>--
>Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d) o-
>e++++! CK:R
>Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
>Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
>UIN: 5589135
>"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest of
>your life."
> -- Flame Stryke
>
>"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking." -- Anonymous
>
>
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Flame Stryke
Wren Flametongue wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:00:43 GMT, Flame Stryke
> <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
> >
> >
> >Wren Flametongue wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:48:49 GMT, Flame Stryke
> >> <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
And you said you don't get any good radio stations out there };=8}
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >> >to say was that they use stereotypes too much, some even to the point of depending
> >> >> >on them to even survive.....
> >> >>
> >> >> It's not really racist to say that there are stereotypical
> >> >> individuals. When people choose to be what the media tell them they're
> >> >> supposed to be, that's their fault. To say that someone is a
> >> >> stereotype is to acknowledge that there are plenty of others in that
> >> >> grouping who are _not_ like that person.
> >> >
> >> >Possibly, but I still believe that most humans rely on stereotypes too much. True,
> >> >there are some who don't go around quoting stereotypes, but for the most part, humans
> >> >rely on stereotypes more than any other species I've met. I'm not saying that some
> >> >dragons or gryphs or some other creatures don't follow stereotypes, but they rely on
> >> >them a lot less.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Why bother with stereotypes..? They dont work.
> >>
> >> 99.9999999% of people dont fit a stereotype...
> >
> >Yes, and 42.3% of statistics are meaningless..... Besides, it's not the fact that ppls
> >don't fit stereotypes, it's that about as many ppls need stereotypes to survive and so
> >create them anyway.....
> >
>
> Oh dear... shameful... ;=8P
I know..... Of course, now somedrak's gonna say that I'm creating a stereotype with that
statement, but I say it's not really a stereotype, it's a comment on an observation of mine.
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d) o- e++++!
CK:HR
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest of your
life."
-- Flame Stryke
"You Might Just be a 'High-Tech Redneck' If you ever refer to your computer as 'Ole Bessy'" --
Anonymous
Flame Stryke
BluePard wrote:
> Flame Stryke wrote:
> > Wren Flametongue wrote:
> > > On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 05:05:32 GMT, Flame Stryke
> > > <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
> > > >BluePard wrote:
> > > >> Flame Stryke wrote:
> > > >> > Um.....er.....yes..... It wouldn't do to be against stereotyping and then go and
> > > >> > do it myself, now would it? };=8}
> > > >>
> > > >> Well, most likely you do think in stereotypes... for the purposes of
> > > >> daily life, most people have to judge books by their covers, and despite
> > > >> what they preach will shy away from "a dangerous-looking character".
> > > >> It's only sense.
> > > >
> > > >I don't see that as a stereotype myself (or at least I didn't before) but I feel that
> > > >I'm big and strong enough to give someone a second thought before trying anything so I
> > > >generally don't avoid shady looking characters, nor do I approach them unless I have
> > > >business either near or past them.
>
> *thinks a moment*
>
> It would not be a stereotype in the sense of "all so-and-so's are like
> this" before you've even seen them, but a stereotype in the sense that
> "this person has these and these attributes, so I think he's like this".
> Well, it's kind of hard to explain the difference...
The problem with that being that it's all a stereotype either way. You still stereotype the
person saying "he's big and looks tough and has a mean looking face so he's mean" as by saying
"other people I've heard about that look like him are nice so he's nice." Those two statements
fall into both the categories you mentioned (one in each, to clarify) but they still assume things
about the person based on a stereotype, thus placing him into that stereotype.
>
> > > >
> > >
> > > I still have the same approach to shady chracters I did back when I
> > > didnt know I was a dragon...
> > >
> > > Ignore them. (Unless I have reason to do otherwise)
>
> *grins*
>
> Actually, my reaction is to avoid them if I'm alone. But then, I avoid
> ALL people when I'm alone, because I'm alone because I *want* to be
> alone... so I suppose that dinnae count? :)
Not necessarily. For example, if you're alone but going to meet somedrac does that mean you want
to be alone? If you're walking down the street alone, wanting to be alone, and a friend comes up
and walks beside you and starts talking to you, do you avoid them? Run away when they get there?
That statement can backfire on you many times, so in some cases, yes, it counts.
>
> > >
> > > Actually, one of my old human friends was a shady character...
>
> I dunno about shady characters, but a lot o me friends look like
> vampires. :)
My sister's pretty much a walking corpse..... No pulse (well, when she was in the hospital the
doctors spent about 15 minutes looking for one..... She was conscious so they knew she had to
have one) she's pale as a ghost and always cold..... On top of that she wanted to dye her hair
black and wear black nail polish and lipstick..... With her anytime she went to sleep they'd have
an ambulance outside };=8}
>
> >
> > Well, when I was young (when this body was, anyway) I tended to avod thos ppls. Of course,
> > I tended to avoid everyone and everything that I didn't know. Now, however, I don't avoid
> > trouble, I just don't go looking for it. For example, the class bully. I wasn't the bully,
> > but there were a couple of ppls that were. If I saw them bullying someone, if I wasn't
> > going near them in the first place, I kept on going. If, however, my path led directly to
> > them, I would put a stop to it one way or another. But never do I go looking for trouble
> > and rarely does trouble come looking for me.....
>
> Dat's good. Usually trouble comes looking for me, but then, that's
> because I'm the quick-to-punch type. I suppose someday I should learn
> how to talk my way out of those sorts of things, since I can't really
> punch...
I'm a talker, not a fighter. But I can fight when I need to, I just choose not to.
>
> > > >>
> > > >> On the other hand, those who believe stereotypes to be absolute truths
> > > >> are overestimating the value of first-sight judgement. I have yet to
> > > >> meet a person who can be assessed at a single glance, and the peeps on
> > > >> this NG prove that point about a book's cover. However, if a book's
> > > >> cover is pretty, I'm more likely to glance at the storyline. By your
> > > >> appearance you also set a tone for how people will see you. Appearence
> > > >> matters, quite a bit indeed.
> > > >
> > > >Possibly, but I generally don't judge a book by its cover or I never would have come
> > > >here once I saw the posts in here.
>
> Same here, as I recently mentioned elsewhere, the first thread I read in
> here was about anti-human sentiments in the NG. But then, I got a
> feeling from the group, and I based it on that...
I kept coming back to the group because I liked the company. Sure there's the occational food
fight, but then, who doesn't like throwing around food? };=8}
>
>
> > > > I think when I first saw this group there were
> > > >about 4 separate food fights and a couple of RPs going on, and that's not what I was
> > > >here for. I originally came here because of the title of the NG and I was a fan of
> > > >dragons, at that time not knowing that I _was_ one. However, despite the cover on the
> > > >book, to use the same analagy, I stayed and I joined in, and now it seems I'm here more
> > > >or less permanently.
>
> I have done the same in some cases... I know a NG is about what I like,
> so I'll check in until I see what I like. NGs change like anything else.
Yes, they do. It seems all the original ppls are gone from the group which is a saddening
thought.
>
> > >
> > > I came here because... it seemed the right thing to do... This place
> > > looked so friendly and welcoming that... well...
> >
> > That's why most ppls (and others) come here in the first place -- because they like the
> > company they see.
>
> Hrmmm. Personally I'd had this NG recommended to me for months before I
> gave it a chance... I didn't really want to come, I was just really
> bored one day and checked it out. I grow weary of the one-thousand and
> three books about dragons, figged it'd be the same fer a NG...
Well, apparently not. A book is written by one or two ppls, but a NG is written by all the
members, be there ten or ten thousand.
>
> > >
> > > >Also, if someone were to proclaim they were someone or something they didn't appear to
> > > >be, I wouldn't apply a stereotype to them and say "He looks human so he's human," I
> > > >accept that that's who or what they feel they are.
>
> *shrugs* I've been known to believe---or at least not judge---some
> pretty unrational things in my time, because I had no proof to the
> contrary and a friend told me they believed fully this was true. 'Tis
> along the lines of "Who am I to judge the nature of others' souls?"
My standpoint is "I'll believe anything exists but I'll demand conclusive proof that something
_doesn't_ exist." Someone recently pointed out that it's impossible (or almost) to prove that
something doesn't exist, and that's one of the main reasons why I do it.
>
> > >
> > > Look at Kai. Does he look like a draconid?
> > >
> > > No. He does not.
> > >
> > > But he is.
> >
> > My point exactly.
>
> I don't know him, but every time you talk about him I think of King Kai
> (or Kaiosama, which is the greatest name to say... well, there is
> Panthera, which I like saying... actually, I gotta a lot o lovely-to-say
> char names...)
I don't know Kai either, but I do agree with the comparison.
>
> > > >>
> > > >> (not that I ever APPLY these points.... *rolls her eyes at herself*)
> > > >>
> > > >> > > Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
> > > >> > > nice black dragons well.
> > > >>
> > > >> *grins*
> > > >>
> > > >> Oh, setting up another stereotype, are we? Black dragons are nice, are
> > > >> they?
> > > >
> > > >This statement isn't really a stereotype, it's a comment based on experience. He met
> > > >several black dragons who happened to be nice. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, as
> > > >it's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that most ppls think of black dragons as evil, but
> > > >I don't automatically assume that everyone trhinks I'm evil. I'm just trying to break
> > > >that particular stereotype and in so doing break the "all dragons are evil" stereotype.
>
> I've never heard an "all black dragons are evil" stereotype, but am well
> aware most associate black with evil and serpents/dragons with it as
> well. Personally I often associate black with good instead, for darkness
> is great to one of the night like a pard.
I don't associate black, or any other colour for that matter, with good or evil. A colour is like
magic -- it's neither good nor evil, it's all in the way it's used. Some creatures who are black,
such as myself, tend toward good. Others, such as those created by companies like Disney, tend
toward evil. The same is true for all colours. Recently, Skylara pointed out that the movie
Dragonheart is one of the few in which the good guy (Bowen) rides a black horse and the bad guy
(Einen) rides a white one. So even in movies the distinction is not really there.
>
>
> Anyhoo, once you begin attempting to set up a reverse-opinion like that,
> you begin to build another stereotype or prejudice. Many today have
> complained that measures for gender equality have backfired and instead
> now that males are being prejudiced against, the same with most
> minorities and majorities (but reversed, since in actuality females are
> in the majority and males the minority)
>
> Most people don't think dragons exist in the first place, anyhoo.
> *shrugs*
I try my hardest to make ppls like that change their minds.
>
> > >
> > > Exactly.
> > >
> > > I know 3 nice, black dragons.
>
> I know some, but haven't counted---I rarely know the color of people
> unless they advertise it (ie. Cereleun, Bluedragon, Black Fang...)
I'm black, in case you care };=8} But then, I recall from an earlier post that Blue Pard isn't
blue, so that doesn't work all the time either };=8}
>
> > >
> > > If I met another black dragon I wouldnt instantly assume it was nice,
> > > but then I wouldnt assume it was evil either.
> >
> > With most dragons I see them as friends. If, however, they break that trust I have placed
> > on them, I tend to treat them the same as shady ppls -- I don't avoid them, nor do I seek
> > them out. If our paths happen to cross, so be it.
>
> *shrugs* I see most dragons as I see most people of any type---they
> could be good or bad, let them talk a minute and you'll know enough to
> start to slide one way or the other. It's hard to stay neutral long.
It is, but a lot of ppls don't even start neutral. They're already with or against before they
even start.
>
> > > >>
> > > >> *grins*
> > > >>
> > > >> This is a hard subject to argue sometimes, ain't it? :)
> > > >
> > > >It can be if you don't feel confident about your points, but I don't feel I have this
> > > >problem. Of course, anything anyone says about this will be opinion so there really is
> > > >no right answers. The only wrong opinion you can ever have is one in which you lie to
> > > >yourself, IMHO.
>
> It can be hard to argue this because it's so easy to not say things as
> you mean them, or be misinterpreted. And when you're confident about
> your points but then someone misreads them and refutes them, it is then
> that the conversation can be hard.
Possibly, but if you take the time to explain what you meant, first, of course, being sure you
meant what you meant, then you're still on good ground. If, however, you say something without
understanding what it is that you're saying, that's when you run into troubles.
>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
> > > >> > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
> > > >> > word };=8} )
> > > >>
> > > >> Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
> > > >> Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
> > > >
> > > >Some, yes, but not enough, really, to change them.
>
> Believe me, you don't want the majority of humans reading this group.
> There have been many a conversation about what to roast humans with on
> this group, about how prejudiced humans are, about how someone'd just
> like to stomp them all, about what the stupid greggils have done to this
> person today, about how humans are inferior, for you to want humans to
> read this group. Those who came here did so because they are
> understanding individuals, or loud-mouthed and ready to argue. Well, I
> have yet to see the later, actually, but even this wonderful NG is not
> something I'd show to anyone I did not judge level-headed.
I talk to this group to all ppls, especially when they ask how I met my GF, and then they are
shocked to find we met on the internet..... Another stereotype that we've broken through.
>
>
> > > > A lot of the humans that visit this
> > > >group open themselves up and so break the bonds of stereotypes, and in so doing they
> > > >re-evaluate who and what they are. Some see themselves as the wrong gender, some of
> > > >the wrong species, and some to be their true selves. But then they go out into the
> > > >Real World and stereotypes start bogging them down. They want to fit in, so they
>
> I'm sure anyone who's here gets annoyed with stereotypes after a while.
Yes, but a lot of them don't know how or are unwilling to do anything about them. I mean, I never
would have gone in this direction if I hadn't seen something that sparked my interest.
>
> > >
> > > Pfeh. That is what I say to the "Real" world. Pfeh.
>
> _Napoleon_
<poem clawed out>
>
> ---
> Come up with a subject, I'll have come up with a poem 'bout it. ;)
(I don't really have anything to say about the poem, but it was too long to be left in. I can,
however, compliment you on the quality of it };=8} )
>
>
> > That's what I would love to say as well, but unfortunately I have to live in it. After a
> > while, I will be able to change the perceptions of that world, but as of yet I am bound in
> > the stereotypes of that world.
>
> The real world... wouldn't be so bad if I could be in trueform again...
> human form gives me human tendencies... can see everything two ways.,...
> things I'd never consider now second nature in trueform... things I do
> now that I enjoy but would hate in trueform... eh, I sense this life has
> screwed up my senses permanently. Even if I were to get back to
> trueform, now, I'd miss some things about my human self. 'Tis a pity
> that I connect body and soul so tightly...
Almost another poem there };=8} But as I pointed out to someone in another place, if I came back
here in my trueform, it would be under my own guidance and control, by my own wishes, not by
someone else's.
>
>
> Nice rabbit trail, tho.
> > >
> > > >reaccept the stereotypes around them. Which, I believe, is counter-productive to my
> > > >original plan of this thread, which was to point out some of the stereotypes that are
> > > >around and destroy them.
>
> I have no idea what you just said.
>
> Personally, I wasn't trying to point out stereotypes and destroy them at
> all, just gain a new perspective, which is commonly my goal...
Well, to each her own, but I am trying to break some of them (basically what I said above in less
flowery words) and to do that you first need to identify them.
>
> > >
> > > <Fanatic stereotypist>
> > >
> > > Destroy the stereotypes, for they are evil scourges on the planet!!
> >
> > That's not exactly the way I pictured it, but some stereotypes do have to go. Some, as
> > someone pointed out in this thread, are beneficial, but others are detrimental, and it's the
> > detrimental ones I think should be removed.....
>
> In yas dreams! Granted, I'm always searching to improve myself, but I
> have my serious doubts as to the nature o others. There are a lot o
> things I'd get rid of in the world before I'd get rid o stereotypes, but
> my view is a biased one in any case, and I'm not (nor are you) the one
> to decide what is good for all. Eh.
No, but I do know what would benefit a lot of ppls. It's like smoking -- it's a habit that slowly
kills, and even though some ppls don't want to quit, it's better for the majority if they do.
Stereotypes don't kill as do cigarettes, but they do kill -- they kill the mind and freedom of
thought and speech. Hatchlings are swamped with stereotypes as they grow..... Like parents
telling them to avoid those afore-mentioned shady characters because thay're bad.
>
> > >
> > > </Fanatical stereotypist>
> > >
> > > Hey, does that mean I typed from two places at once?
>
> No, it means you shoulda used the word "Stereotyper" :)
> >
> > I sincerely doubt it..... That would mean there are two Wren's, and I don't think we can
> > handle even one!! };=8P
>
> (extended ascii character replaced with standard to keep people's
> comps/newsreaders from crashing...)
Aplologies, I tend to use fanciful characters if I think they're neat };=8}
>
> > > >>
> > > >> Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
> > > >
> > > >Possibly not a miracle worker, as these ppls looked in on their own,
>
> How do you know? You don't think I tell people about this group?
> Goodness knows *I* found out about it from other members...
Yes, but you chose to look here on your own. You might have been pointed to it or told about it,
but nodrak held a gun to your head and forced you to look at it (at least I hope they didn't). If
you hadn't wanted to look in here you wouldn't have, no matter that you had lots of time with
nothing to do. If you hadn't wanted to look in here you would have gone and read a book or
something to fill in that time. And that's the same with the ppls who did look in. They wanted
to or they never would have come, whether they were told about it or not.
>
>
> > > > but in some cases
> > > >we might be making a difference with this and some other threads, that cause ppls to
> > > >open their minds and actually think for themselves.....
>
> Or maybe to open their minds and realize that they must consider
> themselves when they talk about people in general... the number who just
> sorta skip themselves... :)
Touche. I don't normally hold myself out of the general population, and the gods know that, yes,
I do have stereotypes. But I'm also trying to identify them so that I can break out of them. I
want to see ppls as they really are, not as someone told me they should be seen.
>
> > >
> > > The mind is like a box. It must be opened to be used.
>
> Nonono, you can use a closed box. To keep things in. The quote is:
>
> "A mind is like a parachute: it only functions when open."
> >
> > Unfortunately, most of the ppls who subscribe to stereotypes either don't know how, can't,
> > or won't open their minds.....
>
> Actually, I know a good number who do... as pointed out by someone
> elsewhere, by subscribing to stereotypes you become one, thus by saying
> that about people subscribing to stereotypes you have yourself
> subscribed to a stereotype.
Not subscribed to the stereotype, identified it. Maybe not a specific one, but I have started
down the road to identify stereotypes. At least, I hope I have.
>
>
> On the other hand, in considering myself an open-minded person, I also
> feel completely justified in darning PCness for all it's worth.
I'd like to consider myself an open minded person as well, and I'd have to be more open minded
than, say, my parents. I can accept who and what I am, but I know that they can't. They're too
bogged down by these stereotypes. They see me as a human, their child, and can't conceive of the
idea that I might not be a human.
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d) o- e++++!
CK:HR
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest of your
life."
-- Flame Stryke
"24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence?" -- Anonymous
Flame Stryke
Wren Flametongue wrote:
Well, I employ the same strategy about my draconity as I do about trouble. If it pops up in
conversation, I deal with it. If it doesn't, I don't volunteer it. If trouble pops up, I deal
with it. If it doesn't, I don't invite it.
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On the other hand, those who believe stereotypes to be absolute truths
> >> >> are overestimating the value of first-sight judgement. I have yet to
> >> >> meet a person who can be assessed at a single glance, and the peeps on
> >> >> this NG prove that point about a book's cover. However, if a book's
> >> >> cover is pretty, I'm more likely to glance at the storyline. By your
> >> >> appearance you also set a tone for how people will see you. Appearence
> >> >> matters, quite a bit indeed.
> >> >
> >> >Possibly, but I generally don't judge a book by its cover or I never would have come
> >> >here once I saw the posts in here. I think when I first saw this group there were
> >> >about 4 separate food fights and a couple of RPs going on, and that's not what I was
> >> >here for. I originally came here because of the title of the NG and I was a fan of
> >> >dragons, at that time not knowing that I _was_ one. However, despite the cover on the
> >> >book, to use the same analagy, I stayed and I joined in, and now it seems I'm here more
> >> >or less permanently.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I came here because... it seemed the right thing to do... This place
> >> looked so friendly and welcoming that... well...
> >
> >That's why most ppls (and others) come here in the first place -- because they like the
> >company they see.
> >
>
> And why not. It's great company. I love you all.
Aw, thanks <huggles> };=8}
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >Also, if someone were to proclaim they were someone or something they didn't appear to
> >> >be, I wouldn't apply a stereotype to them and say "He looks human so he's human," I
> >> >accept that that's who or what they feel they are.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Look at Kai. Does he look like a draconid?
> >>
> >> No. He does not.
> >>
> >> But he is.
> >
> >My point exactly.
> >
>
> Thankyou.
Your welcome.
>
>
> <Munch>
>
> >> >> > > Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
> >> >> > > nice black dragons well.
> >> >>
> >> >> *grins*
> >> >>
> >> >> Oh, setting up another stereotype, are we? Black dragons are nice, are
> >> >> they?
> >> >
> >> >This statement isn't really a stereotype, it's a comment based on experience. He met
> >> >several black dragons who happened to be nice. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, as
> >> >it's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that most ppls think of black dragons as evil, but
> >> >I don't automatically assume that everyone trhinks I'm evil. I'm just trying to break
> >> >that particular stereotype and in so doing break the "all dragons are evil" stereotype.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Exactly.
> >>
> >> I know 3 nice, black dragons.
> >>
> >> If I met another black dragon I wouldnt instantly assume it was nice,
> >> but then I wouldnt assume it was evil either.
> >
> >With most dragons I see them as friends. If, however, they break that trust I have placed
> >on them, I tend to treat them the same as shady ppls -- I don't avoid them, nor do I seek
> >them out. If our paths happen to cross, so be it.
> >
>
> Same here. I tend to treat most non-humans as friends, unless they
> prove otherwise.
>
> <Munchies!>
Tasty? };=8}
>
>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
> >> >> > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
> >> >> > word };=8} )
> >> >>
> >> >> Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
> >> >> Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
> >> >
> >> >Some, yes, but not enough, really, to change them. A lot of the humans that visit this
> >> >group open themselves up and so break the bonds of stereotypes, and in so doing they
> >> >re-evaluate who and what they are. Some see themselves as the wrong gender, some of
> >> >the wrong species, and some to be their true selves. But then they go out into the
> >> >Real World and stereotypes start bogging them down. They want to fit in, so they
> >>
> >> Pfeh. That is what I say to the "Real" world. Pfeh.
> >
> >That's what I would love to say as well, but unfortunately I have to live in it. After a
> >while, I will be able to change the perceptions of that world, but as of yet I am bound in
> >the stereotypes of that world.
> >
>
> I say it anyway... (and then I wonder why peeps tend to think I'm some
> kinda freak... it's because I am! I'm a freaky draconid and proud of
> it! ;=8P )
Well, ppls define RL differently. Some say RL is life off this group. I say RL is when I'm back
into my trueform.
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >reaccept the stereotypes around them. Which, I believe, is counter-productive to my
> >> >original plan of this thread, which was to point out some of the stereotypes that are
> >> >around and destroy them.
> >> >
> >>
> >> <Fanatic stereotypist>
> >>
> >> Destroy the stereotypes, for they are evil scourges on the planet!!
> >
> >That's not exactly the way I pictured it, but some stereotypes do have to go. Some, as
> >someone pointed out in this thread, are beneficial, but others are detrimental, and it's the
> >detrimental ones I think should be removed.....
> >
>
> I was just joking around there... still, if my jokes make peeps
> think... then they are more than mere jokes.
And they are beneficial to ppls.
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> </Fanatical stereotypist>
> >>
> >> Hey, does that mean I typed from two places at once?
> >
> >I sincerely doubt it..... That would mean there are two Wren's, and I don't think we can
> >handle even one!! };=8Ş
> >
>
> *chuckles in stereo*
ACK!! Two Wrens!! Look out world, the end is near!! };=8}
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
> >> >
> >> >Possibly not a miracle worker, as these ppls looked in on their own, but in some cases
> >> >we might be making a difference with this and some other threads, that cause ppls to
> >> >open their minds and actually think for themselves.....
> >> >
> >>
> >> The mind is like a box. It must be opened to be used.
> >
> >Unfortunately, most of the ppls who subscribe to stereotypes either don't know how, can't,
> >or won't open their minds.....
> >
>
> I feel severe pity for those who dont know how/cant.
As do I. However, you must admit (well, you don't absolutely _have_ to, but I think you can)
that at times you've been close-minded about something. I know I have, and all it brings in the
end is trouble..... You know, that might be your problem..... };=8}
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d) o- e++++!
CK:HR
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest of your
life."
-- Flame Stryke
"If you have everything, gloat. When that gets boring, start your own line of perfumes. --
Anonymous
Wren Flametongue
spake thusly:
>Quoth Peter.G...@btinternet.com (Wren Flametongue):
>>BluePard <blue...@buffNOT.net spake thusly:
>>>Sparhawk wrote:
>>>> BluePard wrote:
>[munch]
>
>>>> > Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
>>
>>I believe in miracles...
>
>You sexy thing. ;=8D
*chuckles*
>--
> _________________________________________________________
> \^\^//
>,^ ( ..) ~~ Samurai ~~
> | \ \ DC.D f+s+h--CK^K a $-m-d++WL++Fr L12m BW e++g--i--!
> \ `^--^
> \ \ \ Please note Reply-To: header now set. Fish begone!
>ksj ^--^ _________________________________________________________
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Wren Flametongue
spake thusly:
>Flame Stryke wrote:
>> Wren Flametongue wrote:
>> > On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 05:05:32 GMT, Flame Stryke
>> > <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>> > >BluePard wrote:
>> > >> Flame Stryke wrote:
>> > >> > Um.....er.....yes..... It wouldn't do to be against stereotyping and then go and
>> > >> > do it myself, now would it? };=8}
>> > >>
>> > >> Well, most likely you do think in stereotypes... for the purposes of
>> > >> daily life, most people have to judge books by their covers, and despite
>> > >> what they preach will shy away from "a dangerous-looking character".
>> > >> It's only sense.
>> > >
>> > >I don't see that as a stereotype myself (or at least I didn't before) but I feel that
>> > >I'm big and strong enough to give someone a second thought before trying anything so I
>> > >generally don't avoid shady looking characters, nor do I approach them unless I have
>> > >business either near or past them.
>
>*thinks a moment*
>
>It would not be a stereotype in the sense of "all so-and-so's are like
>this" before you've even seen them, but a stereotype in the sense that
>"this person has these and these attributes, so I think he's like this".
>Well, it's kind of hard to explain the difference...
'tis a probability thing...
Tho' it doesnt really work, anyway.
Still, I suppose you need *SOMETHING* to base your original view of a
person on...
>> > >
>> >
>> > I still have the same approach to shady chracters I did back when I
>> > didnt know I was a dragon...
>> >
>> > Ignore them. (Unless I have reason to do otherwise)
>
>*grins*
>
>Actually, my reaction is to avoid them if I'm alone. But then, I avoid
>ALL people when I'm alone, because I'm alone because I *want* to be
>alone... so I suppose that dinnae count? :)
I often avoid peeps when I wanna be left alone too.
>> >
>> > Actually, one of my old human friends was a shady character...
>
>I dunno about shady characters, but a lot o me friends look like
>vampires. :)
Oh dear. My "Shady character" friend looks like the type to hide a
shotgun in his trenchcoat.
>>
>> Well, when I was young (when this body was, anyway) I tended to avod thos ppls. Of course,
>> I tended to avoid everyone and everything that I didn't know. Now, however, I don't avoid
>> trouble, I just don't go looking for it. For example, the class bully. I wasn't the bully,
>> but there were a couple of ppls that were. If I saw them bullying someone, if I wasn't
>> going near them in the first place, I kept on going. If, however, my path led directly to
>> them, I would put a stop to it one way or another. But never do I go looking for trouble
>> and rarely does trouble come looking for me.....
>
>Dat's good. Usually trouble comes looking for me, but then, that's
>because I'm the quick-to-punch type. I suppose someday I should learn
>how to talk my way out of those sorts of things, since I can't really
>punch...
I *USED* to be the quick-to-claw,claw,bite type.
>> > >>
>> > >> On the other hand, those who believe stereotypes to be absolute truths
>> > >> are overestimating the value of first-sight judgement. I have yet to
>> > >> meet a person who can be assessed at a single glance, and the peeps on
>> > >> this NG prove that point about a book's cover. However, if a book's
>> > >> cover is pretty, I'm more likely to glance at the storyline. By your
>> > >> appearance you also set a tone for how people will see you. Appearence
>> > >> matters, quite a bit indeed.
>> > >
>> > >Possibly, but I generally don't judge a book by its cover or I never would have come
>> > >here once I saw the posts in here.
>
>Same here, as I recently mentioned elsewhere, the first thread I read in
>here was about anti-human sentiments in the NG. But then, I got a
>feeling from the group, and I based it on that...
>
Yep. I did too.
<Raja mode>
And my feelings are always good. Gettit?
</Raja mode>
Sorry, that was inappropriate...
>> > > I think when I first saw this group there were
>> > >about 4 separate food fights and a couple of RPs going on, and that's not what I was
>> > >here for. I originally came here because of the title of the NG and I was a fan of
>> > >dragons, at that time not knowing that I _was_ one. However, despite the cover on the
>> > >book, to use the same analagy, I stayed and I joined in, and now it seems I'm here more
>> > >or less permanently.
>
>I have done the same in some cases... I know a NG is about what I like,
>so I'll check in until I see what I like. NGs change like anything else.
And in this case change back, like a were-chocobo.
It's the were-NG!!
>> >
>> > I came here because... it seemed the right thing to do... This place
>> > looked so friendly and welcoming that... well...
>>
>> That's why most ppls (and others) come here in the first place -- because they like the
>> company they see.
>
>Hrmmm. Personally I'd had this NG recommended to me for months before I
>gave it a chance... I didn't really want to come, I was just really
>bored one day and checked it out. I grow weary of the one-thousand and
>three books about dragons, figged it'd be the same fer a NG...
Only it isnt.
>> >
>> > >Also, if someone were to proclaim they were someone or something they didn't appear to
>> > >be, I wouldn't apply a stereotype to them and say "He looks human so he's human," I
>> > >accept that that's who or what they feel they are.
>
>*shrugs* I've been known to believe---or at least not judge---some
>pretty unrational things in my time, because I had no proof to the
>contrary and a friend told me they believed fully this was true. 'Tis
>along the lines of "Who am I to judge the nature of others' souls?"
Indeed. I believed that one of my friends was a ninja once, because he
said so.
>> >
>> > Look at Kai. Does he look like a draconid?
>> >
>> > No. He does not.
>> >
>> > But he is.
>>
>> My point exactly.
>
>I don't know him, but every time you talk about him I think of King Kai
??!
>(or Kaiosama, which is the greatest name to say... well, there is
>Panthera, which I like saying... actually, I gotta a lot o lovely-to-say
>char names...)
Pantera? Roar! Growl! (But all to a beat of course.)
>> > >>
>> > >> (not that I ever APPLY these points.... *rolls her eyes at herself*)
>> > >>
>> > >> > > Black dragons are usually very nice, I have found... Knowing 3 very
>> > >> > > nice black dragons well.
>> > >>
>> > >> *grins*
>> > >>
>> > >> Oh, setting up another stereotype, are we? Black dragons are nice, are
>> > >> they?
>> > >
>> > >This statement isn't really a stereotype, it's a comment based on experience. He met
>> > >several black dragons who happened to be nice. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, as
>> > >it's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that most ppls think of black dragons as evil, but
>> > >I don't automatically assume that everyone trhinks I'm evil. I'm just trying to break
>> > >that particular stereotype and in so doing break the "all dragons are evil" stereotype.
>
>I've never heard an "all black dragons are evil" stereotype, but am well
>aware most associate black with evil and serpents/dragons with it as
>well. Personally I often associate black with good instead, for darkness
>is great to one of the night like a pard.
>
The night is great for those of stealth. It is not in itself good or
evil.
>Anyhoo, once you begin attempting to set up a reverse-opinion like that,
>you begin to build another stereotype or prejudice. Many today have
>complained that measures for gender equality have backfired and instead
>now that males are being prejudiced against, the same with most
>minorities and majorities (but reversed, since in actuality females are
>in the majority and males the minority)
>
>Most people don't think dragons exist in the first place, anyhoo.
>*shrugs*
>> >
>> > Exactly.
>> >
>> > I know 3 nice, black dragons.
>
>I know some, but haven't counted---I rarely know the color of people
>unless they advertise it (ie. Cereleun, Bluedragon, Black Fang...)
Hmm... I'd say 4, but BF doesnt count as *NICE*. He's a good friend,
and a good person, I think... but *NICE*? Not the right word...
>> >
>> > If I met another black dragon I wouldnt instantly assume it was nice,
>> > but then I wouldnt assume it was evil either.
>>
>> With most dragons I see them as friends. If, however, they break that trust I have placed
>> on them, I tend to treat them the same as shady ppls -- I don't avoid them, nor do I seek
>> them out. If our paths happen to cross, so be it.
>
>*shrugs* I see most dragons as I see most people of any type---they
>could be good or bad, let them talk a minute and you'll know enough to
>start to slide one way or the other. It's hard to stay neutral long.
Indeed.
>> > >>
>> > >> *grins*
>> > >>
>> > >> This is a hard subject to argue sometimes, ain't it? :)
>> > >
>> > >It can be if you don't feel confident about your points, but I don't feel I have this
>> > >problem. Of course, anything anyone says about this will be opinion so there really is
>> > >no right answers. The only wrong opinion you can ever have is one in which you lie to
>> > >yourself, IMHO.
>
>It can be hard to argue this because it's so easy to not say things as
>you mean them, or be misinterpreted. And when you're confident about
>your points but then someone misreads them and refutes them, it is then
>that the conversation can be hard.
*nods* That is a *PAIN*!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Well, I thank you for your vote of support. If only some humans could actually
>> > >> > see this group..... Se how tolerant we all are (except me when I use the wrong
>> > >> > word };=8} )
>> > >>
>> > >> Poof! Your wish is granted! Some humans have actually seen this group.
>> > >> Some of them are posting to it at this very moment....
>> > >
>> > >Some, yes, but not enough, really, to change them.
>
>Believe me, you don't want the majority of humans reading this group.
>There have been many a conversation about what to roast humans with on
>this group, about how prejudiced humans are, about how someone'd just
>like to stomp them all, about what the stupid greggils have done to this
>person today, about how humans are inferior, for you to want humans to
>read this group. Those who came here did so because they are
>understanding individuals, or loud-mouthed and ready to argue. Well, I
>have yet to see the later, actually, but even this wonderful NG is not
>something I'd show to anyone I did not judge level-headed.
>
And we're *OH SO* tolerant of other species... ;=8P
(I know. Most of its in jest, and its only humans and trolls that we
bash, but... it's still worth a joke!)
>> > > A lot of the humans that visit this
>> > >group open themselves up and so break the bonds of stereotypes, and in so doing they
>> > >re-evaluate who and what they are. Some see themselves as the wrong gender, some of
>> > >the wrong species, and some to be their true selves. But then they go out into the
>> > >Real World and stereotypes start bogging them down. They want to fit in, so they
>
>I'm sure anyone who's here gets annoyed with stereotypes after a while.
I do.
>> >
>> > Pfeh. That is what I say to the "Real" world. Pfeh.
>
>_Napoleon_
>(don't ask about the title)
I dont follow such advice. I wanna know. (This is the drakkie who
asked about Urosetidoji (sp?)... You think I'm gonna blanch at a
poem?)
>
>I don't want to deal with the real world anymore.
>Frightening, my dreams come falling down.
>I don't want to deal with the real world anymore.
>Not in my thoughts, but stranded on the ground.
>
>Tears fill my eyes as I whisper sweeter lies
>Why did it have to come to this?
>I told them what'd inition with no kind of precognition
>Forgiveness is now all that I wish
>
>I only asked one thing in my life
>A pompous thing, in a pompous tone
>Quiet in the corner, shading eyes
>I dared to ask that I be left alone
>
>Don't hurt me there, that won't mend...I would like to recommend
>"---nevermind, you are without say"
>If you try to do more harm I guarentee to your alarm
>To meet my threats in every single way
>
>But then my heart will interject, strangle-hold upon my neck---
>In the end, I'm the one to pay
>Tears fill my eyes as I whisper sweeter lies
>I will recover, reborn, someday.
>
>
>---
>Come up with a subject, I'll have come up with a poem 'bout it. ;)
>
I'll think of one soon.
>> That's what I would love to say as well, but unfortunately I have to live in it. After a
>> while, I will be able to change the perceptions of that world, but as of yet I am bound in
>> the stereotypes of that world.
>
>The real world... wouldn't be so bad if I could be in trueform again...
>human form gives me human tendencies... can see everything two ways.,...
>things I'd never consider now second nature in trueform... things I do
>now that I enjoy but would hate in trueform... eh, I sense this life has
>screwed up my senses permanently. Even if I were to get back to
>trueform, now, I'd miss some things about my human self. 'Tis a pity
>that I connect body and soul so tightly...
>
Yep. Thats it. Thats why I'm so *MESSED UP* (words altered from
original thoughts) *IN THE HEAD*. I shouldnt be in a human body but I
am. If I went trueform, I certainly wouldnt look back. In fact, if I
took any of my (remembered) past life forms, it'd be better... even
the 3 foot (ish) anthro-rat.
>Nice rabbit trail, tho.
>> >
>> > >reaccept the stereotypes around them. Which, I believe, is counter-productive to my
>> > >original plan of this thread, which was to point out some of the stereotypes that are
>> > >around and destroy them.
>
>I have no idea what you just said.
>
>Personally, I wasn't trying to point out stereotypes and destroy them at
>all, just gain a new perspective, which is commonly my goal...
>> >
>> > <Fanatic stereotypist>
>> >
>> > Destroy the stereotypes, for they are evil scourges on the planet!!
>>
>> That's not exactly the way I pictured it, but some stereotypes do have to go. Some, as
>> someone pointed out in this thread, are beneficial, but others are detrimental, and it's the
>> detrimental ones I think should be removed.....
>
>In yas dreams! Granted, I'm always searching to improve myself, but I
>have my serious doubts as to the nature o others. There are a lot o
>things I'd get rid of in the world before I'd get rid o stereotypes, but
>my view is a biased one in any case, and I'm not (nor are you) the one
>to decide what is good for all. Eh.
>> >
>> > </Fanatical stereotypist>
>> >
>> > Hey, does that mean I typed from two places at once?
>
>No, it means you shoulda used the word "Stereotyper" :)
Hmm...
>>
>> I sincerely doubt it..... That would mean there are two Wren's, and I don't think we can
>> handle even one!! };=8P
>
>(extended ascii character replaced with standard to keep people's
>comps/newsreaders from crashing...)
Now I dont have to feel embarassed about forgetting the number...
>> > >>
>> > >> Yeah, I know, I'm a miracle-worker. :)
>> > >
>> > >Possibly not a miracle worker, as these ppls looked in on their own,
>
>How do you know? You don't think I tell people about this group?
>Goodness knows *I* found out about it from other members...
>
I just... found it. Lucky Wren? Maybe. Maybe I was guided here by some
unseen force...
*is surrounded by light from above*
;=8P
>> > > but in some cases
>> > >we might be making a difference with this and some other threads, that cause ppls to
>> > >open their minds and actually think for themselves.....
>
>Or maybe to open their minds and realize that they must consider
>themselves when they talk about people in general... the number who just
>sorta skip themselves... :)
Indeed.
>> >
>> > The mind is like a box. It must be opened to be used.
>
>Nonono, you can use a closed box. To keep things in. The quote is:
>
Pfeh.
>"A mind is like a parachute: it only functions when open."
Thats better, I admit.
>>
>> Unfortunately, most of the ppls who subscribe to stereotypes either don't know how, can't,
>> or won't open their minds.....
>
>Actually, I know a good number who do... as pointed out by someone
>elsewhere, by subscribing to stereotypes you become one, thus by saying
>that about people subscribing to stereotypes you have yourself
>subscribed to a stereotype.
>
>On the other hand, in considering myself an open-minded person, I also
>feel completely justified in darning PCness for all it's worth.
Darning? Why repair it? ;=8P
>--
> _ - ___ \ BluePard, Lone Loopy Lupine Leopard Mage
> ,-------/.)- ( ` \ Born wingless into interesting times
> // \ ) )
>.------/`> \ / Don't be ashamed of the past,
>'- ( \ / it molds the present
> `-....-' \ _/
> ''''`'|'\ / `- BluePard(at)buffnet.net
>BP ( http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/palms/2115
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
FoulDragon
>evil.
How do you know that? Much as we sometimes assign good or bad to the neutral,
can't we assign neutral mistakenly to that which is good or bad? [BTW-- the
night is good. The night is your friend. ::glassy eyed cultist look::]
>Those who came here did so because they are
>>understanding individuals, or loud-mouthed and ready to argue.
Or they find it humourous.
>*is surrounded by light from above*
>
::turns off montior:: "sorry. I should turn the brightness down."
>>"A mind is like a parachute: it only functions when open."
>
"Open your mind too far and the marbles fall out."
~Marada, thinking any more quoted text and I'll need more RAM.
Wren Flametongue
<flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>
>
>Wren Flametongue wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:00:43 GMT, Flame Stryke
>> <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >Wren Flametongue wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:48:49 GMT, Flame Stryke
>> >> <flame_...@geocities.com> spake thusly:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
I had to buy the albums to hear them...
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >> >to say was that they use stereotypes too much, some even to the point of depending
>> >> >> >on them to even survive.....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's not really racist to say that there are stereotypical
>> >> >> individuals. When people choose to be what the media tell them they're
>> >> >> supposed to be, that's their fault. To say that someone is a
>> >> >> stereotype is to acknowledge that there are plenty of others in that
>> >> >> grouping who are _not_ like that person.
>> >> >
>> >> >Possibly, but I still believe that most humans rely on stereotypes too much. True,
>> >> >there are some who don't go around quoting stereotypes, but for the most part, humans
>> >> >rely on stereotypes more than any other species I've met. I'm not saying that some
>> >> >dragons or gryphs or some other creatures don't follow stereotypes, but they rely on
>> >> >them a lot less.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Why bother with stereotypes..? They dont work.
>> >>
>> >> 99.9999999% of people dont fit a stereotype...
>> >
>> >Yes, and 42.3% of statistics are meaningless..... Besides, it's not the fact that ppls
>> >don't fit stereotypes, it's that about as many ppls need stereotypes to survive and so
>> >create them anyway.....
>> >
>>
>> Oh dear... shameful... ;=8P
>
>I know..... Of course, now somedrak's gonna say that I'm creating a stereotype with that
>statement, but I say it's not really a stereotype, it's a comment on an observation of mine.
>
I wont.
>--
>Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d) o- e++++!
>CK:HR
>Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
>Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
>UIN: 5589135
>"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest of your
>life."
> -- Flame Stryke
>
>"You Might Just be a 'High-Tech Redneck' If you ever refer to your computer as 'Ole Bessy'" --
>Anonymous
>
>
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Wren Flametongue
spake thusly:
>>The night is great for those of stealth. It is not in itself good or
>>evil.
>
>How do you know that? Much as we sometimes assign good or bad to the neutral,
>can't we assign neutral mistakenly to that which is good or bad? [BTW-- the
>night is good. The night is your friend. ::glassy eyed cultist look::]
I somehow doubt that darkness is sentient. Therefore it is neither
good nor evil. It is a tool.
<Munch>
>>*is surrounded by light from above*
>>
>
>::turns off montior:: "sorry. I should turn the brightness down."
>>>"A mind is like a parachute: it only functions when open."
>>
>
>"Open your mind too far and the marbles fall out."
>
Oh, is that so? Well, agent Mulder (yes, I know... he isnt real... has
a *VERY* open mind, and he's (nearly) *ALWAYS* right! ;=8P )
>~Marada, thinking any more quoted text and I'll need more RAM.
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
starr
>> >> "aren't dragons those big, ugly, red lizards?" i tend to scowl at them
>> >> :>
>> >
>> >Oh, I tend to start growling, even in my human form };=8}
>>
>> that's just the draconic habits kicking in :>
>
>Yup };=8} I tend to growl when I get annoyed at anything..... ppls usually
>stop
>annoying me when I do };=8}
its the best way to shut them up :/
>> >> hrm. well. my colours been changing recently.. from black to blue and
>> >> now i'm edging on red *grins* i'm a mood-dragon ;)
>> >
>> >Hehe..... Does one wear you as a ring or a pendant? };=8Ş
>>
>> oo. pendants are pretty. i think i'm a pendant ;)
>
>Does that mean I can go down to my local mood pendant store and ask for a moon
>starr?
>};=8}
yes, but they won't have any in stock. i'm one of a kind :)
>--
>Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $
-- moon starr
DC.D f--- a- d+++ (m) CB&S WL++* L--- g- Z e FR++ h+ $-- i- s++ U
how 'bout me not blaming you for everything
how 'bout me enjoying the moment for once
how 'bout how good it feels to finally forgive you
how 'bout grieving it all one at a time
alanis morissette
starr
>> that's just the draconic habits kicking in :>
>
>> >> now i'm edging on red *grins* i'm a mood-dragon ;)
>
>:)
no, but i will be able to frequently change my colour according to my
moods :)
>"Maybe you can open a Dwaggie Fashion party. Inks for scales, liquid
>for polishing... forget it
oo. now you've put ideas into my head..
>> >Hehe..... Does one wear you as a ring or a pendant? };=8ç
>> oo. pendants are pretty. i think i'm a pendant ;)
>
>"Huh?
don't worry about it!
>______\______/__________--=[Jrrhack Draco ICQ: 8656947]=--
>_______\____/___________dra...@zaz.com.br
>________@__@____________http://quelm.camalott.com/~jrrhack
>o00O______'_'___O00o____[ Draconity 73% pure ][ OS/2 Warped Warrior ]
>________________________DC.D f s++ h++ Cdg a-(m- d++) $- fr-- WL++*
>L15.5m Ba e++ g i! u+++
Polenth
>Not fergetting Pratchettian Unicorns... who are just as bad as the
>elves... ;=8P
>
>Although I'm not too fond of his portrayal of dragons...
There has to be something said for small with a tendency to blow up
dragons. They are unusual. :) There was a wyvern snuck into one of the
books, but they didn't say much about it (and a gryphon). It implied
they weren't the imagined varieties, which was interesting.
Contention
>> (I mean, are you a particular shape? Colour? Do you tend to prosper
>>in damp climes? Mushrooms raised you? [As opposed to the other way
>>'round!] Whatwhatwhat?) :)
>
>I have a mushroom as a totem 'fruit'. 'Tis Ganederma lucidinum (sp?).
Couldn't tell you! I took German rather than Latin at GCSE, and I
still don't know if it was a mistake... :)
>And I like mushrooms. I draw pictures of them everywhere. :)
Fair enough. <g> (Do you have any online? It sounds like fun, in a
crazy[1] sort of way...)
Contention.
[1]No offense. ;)
Wren Flametongue
<pol...@polenth.demon.co.uk> spake thusly:
>Wren Flametongue <Peter.G...@btinternet.com> murmured mushroomyly:
>>Not fergetting Pratchettian Unicorns... who are just as bad as the
>>elves... ;=8P
>>
>>Although I'm not too fond of his portrayal of dragons...
>
>There has to be something said for small with a tendency to blow up
'Small with a tendency to blow up' dragons... hmm.
I'm small and have a tendency to blow things up... ;=8P
>dragons. They are unusual. :) There was a wyvern snuck into one of the
>books, but they didn't say much about it (and a gryphon). It implied
>they weren't the imagined varieties, which was interesting.
>
>--
>Polenth
>
>ICQ UIN: 8342844 | Clan Stormcrest
>http://www.polenth.demon.co.uk/
>DC.D Pf CDP a- d+++ WL+* L14f Balkali f e! m-
Wren Flametongue - Winged Draconid
Flame Stryke
starr wrote:
> >> >> me neither. esp. when it comes to dragons. when some begins to say;
> >> >> "aren't dragons those big, ugly, red lizards?" i tend to scowl at them
> >> >> :>
> >> >
> >> >Oh, I tend to start growling, even in my human form };=8}
> >>
> >> that's just the draconic habits kicking in :>
> >
> >Yup };=8} I tend to growl when I get annoyed at anything..... ppls usually
> >stop
> >annoying me when I do };=8}
>
> its the best way to shut them up :/
So I noticed };=8}
>
>
> >> >> hrm. well. my colours been changing recently.. from black to blue and
> >> >> now i'm edging on red *grins* i'm a mood-dragon ;)
> >> >
> >> >Hehe..... Does one wear you as a ring or a pendant? };=8Ş
> >>
> >> oo. pendants are pretty. i think i'm a pendant ;)
> >
> >Does that mean I can go down to my local mood pendant store and ask for a moon
> >starr?
> >};=8}
>
> yes, but they won't have any in stock. i'm one of a kind :)
Damn..... And I so wanted to get one..... BTW, it's a mood starr, not a moon starr
that I wanted };=8}
--
Flame Stryke ShadowDark DC2.D Gm a+++ L* w pWLA BF f r+++! s+ Fr- U+ i--! h--- $ m(d)
o- e++++! CK:HR
Black dragon, red eyes, changeling, mage.
Guaranteed 87% dragon pure. };=8}
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3795/
UIN: 5589135
"Do not anger a dragon, for though you won't live long, you'll regret it for the rest
of your life."
-- Flame Stryke
"You Might Just be a 'High-Tech Redneck' If the bumper sticker on your truck says 'My
other computer is a laptop'" -- Anonymous