Best and Worst of Dragonlance
David Tolstrup
IMHO, the best Dragonlance book by a nose is War of the Twins. It is so because of many
factors. It is the one where the relationship between the twins goes through the most
change, and also where they truly become ‘legends.’
The worst, I have difficulty figuring out. Dawning of a New Age springs to mind, but there
are many more worthy of this ‘honor.’ The contenders, in my opinion, are: Kendermore
(one of the singularly most annoying books), the Dark Queen (.....ugh), Brothers Majere (I
would willingly hire somebody to kill Kevin Stein), and Tanis: the Shadow Years.
As for the other books, I am not sure. I suppose Summer Flame was not as good as any of
the other Weis & Hickman books, although maybe it was better than The Second Generation.
Test of the Twins would have to be fairly low (for some reason I just didn’t like that book
too much). The chronicles are all about the same, probably just under War of the Twins and
maybe over Time of the Twins. Hot on the heels of the real dragonlance books is the
Defenders of Magic trilogy. Guerrand diThon is one of my favorites. Actually, the order of
quality from best to worst in that series was exactly the same as the book order. I guess I
didn’t like Rand, Kirah, and just about everyone else getting themselves killed like Doug
Niles was in town. DoM runs neck and neck with Legend of Huma, Kaz the Minotaur, and
Empire of the Minotaurs, but Guerrand wins by a nose. Lord Toede was by no means a
serious book, and probably has little place in Dragonlance, but it is a great antidote to the
solemn melancholy of the other books, and I just loved it. Preludes and Meetings sucked as
a job lot, and I’m pretty ambivalent about Elven Nations (although the Kinslayer War was
good). The others all fit in somewhere between. I don’t want to be the only one with an
opinion, please give me yours.
Rohan Tolstrup, the Insomniac Australian
Sir Dave, Knight of the Rose
IMHO...
Legends are the best
then Chronicles
DosF
TSG
DoNA- not that great... but I like Palin
DoM was ok. The 1st book was really good by the third it was a little=20
hard to choke down.
comments on other stuff...
I like most of the Tales.
Preludes sucked.
Dwarven Nations was actually kinda neat, but I love dwarves so... that=20
is probably just me.
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
> IMHO, the best Dragonlance book by a nose is War of the Twins. It is so =
because of many=20
> factors. It is the one where the relationship between the twins goes thr=
ough the most=20
> change, and also where they truly become =91legends.=92
> The worst, I have difficulty figuring out. Dawning of a New Age springs =
to mind, but there=20
> are many more worthy of this =91honor.=92 The contenders, in my opinion,=
are: Kendermore=20
> (one of the singularly most annoying books), the Dark Queen (.....ugh), B=
rothers Majere (I=20
> would willingly hire somebody to kill Kevin Stein), and Tanis: the Shadow=
Years.
> As for the other books, I am not sure. I suppose Summer Flame was not as=
good as any of=20
> the other Weis & Hickman books, although maybe it was better than The Sec=
ond Generation. =20
> Test of the Twins would have to be fairly low (for some reason I just did=
n=92t like that book=20
> too much). The chronicles are all about the same, probably just under Wa=
r of the Twins and=20
> maybe over Time of the Twins. Hot on the heels of the real dragonlance b=
ooks is the=20
> Defenders of Magic trilogy. Guerrand diThon is one of my favorites. Act=
ually, the order of=20
> quality from best to worst in that series was exactly the same as the boo=
k order. I guess I=20
> didn=92t like Rand, Kirah, and just about everyone else getting themselve=
s killed like Doug=20
> Niles was in town. DoM runs neck and neck with Legend of Huma, Kaz the M=
inotaur, and=20
> Empire of the Minotaurs, but Guerrand wins by a nose. Lord Toede was by =
no means a=20
> serious book, and probably has little place in Dragonlance, but it is a g=
reat antidote to the=20
> solemn melancholy of the other books, and I just loved it. Preludes and =
Meetings sucked as=20
> a job lot, and I=92m pretty ambivalent about Elven Nations (although the =
Kinslayer War was=20
> good). The others all fit in somewhere between. I don=92t want to be th=
e only one with an=20
> opinion, please give me yours.
>=20
> Rohan Tolstrup, the Insomniac Australian
>=20
>=20
Rafael Pedro Viegas Canoa
I wont bother speaking about the old Weis and Hickman stuff because everyone
loves that. As for the newer stuff: Dark Queen of Krynn and Before the Mask are
two of the worst ever. I loved Elven and Dwarven Nations, as well as Emperor of
Ansalon. The Gates of Thorbardin and the Legend of Huma were also pretty good.
Could someone please comment on the Irda, Kagonesti, and Dargonesti novels? I'm
considering buying them but I would like some critical feedback (no major
spoilers please, just a general opinion).
Thanks
Rafael
The Beast
Worst: 1) The Dark Queen. It's soooo boring...
2) Stormblade...same as above.
3) DONA
Best: Chronicles & Legends
--
ste...@iastate.edu
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~stewart
forever darkness
r...@direct.ca (Rafael Pedro Viegas Canoa) wrote:
>Could someone please comment on the Irda, Kagonesti, and Dargonesti novels? I'm
>considering buying them but I would like some critical feedback (no major
>spoilers please, just a general opinion).
i recall the irda book being ok... pretty good history lesson in
there. the kagonesti i really liked...
but the dargonesti... ahhh... the dargonesti... paul thompson and
sonya cook must have ra salvatore as an idol. that book was the
biggest rip off of the drow books that i have ever seen. i would
equate it somewhere with dark queen. it was lousy. the story line
was so typical. hm... a race of elves, who hate sunlight, intent on
domination of their cousins on the surface. go figure...
cassandra
______________________________________________________________________
"the children of the night... what beautiful music they make"
darkness... hidden from the eyes... absence of light...
http://www.cyberbeach.net/~spirit
______________________________________________________________________
Mr Apol
As a matter of fact, I've never read any of Bob Salvatore's books. None.
And though the plot of "The Dargonesti" is entirely the work of Tonya and
myself, the Dargonesti themselves were created by TSR.
Paul B. Thompson
forever darkness
>As a matter of fact, I've never read any of Bob Salvatore's books. >None.
>And though the plot of "The Dargonesti" is entirely the work of Tonya >and
>myself, the Dargonesti themselves were created by TSR.
first off... i must apologize if my comments offended you. it was not
a direct attack at either your or sonya, but i was merely stating my
opinion on the book.
to put it bluntly, i didn't like it. i know the dargonesti were created
by tsr, but the way you portrayed them in the book, they came across
as drow. if you haven't read any of the drow novels by salvatore, then
you must be psychic. :)
i would assume you know a little bit about the drow... they're intent
on domination of the surface world over their surface cousins... they
dislike sunlight immensly... and they're purely evil. that's exactly
what i read in the dargonesti book. they were portrayed as evil, led
by a powerful queen (another spin-off of drow), coming up from the
depths of the ocean to take over silvanesti. and their biggest
weakness? the sunlight! it just seemed *way* to similar to drizzt's
experiences with his past life.
i hope you're not that offended by what i said... i was merely stating
my opinion. if it makes you feel any better... i did buy the dargonesti
book! :)
cassandra
--
The Dark One (Edward J. Pollard)
In article <5jqlu5$s0n$1...@orb.direct.ca>, r...@direct.ca (Rafael Pedro Viegas
Canoa) wrote:
> I wont bother speaking about the old Weis and Hickman stuff because everyone
> loves that. As for the newer stuff: Dark Queen of Krynn and Before the
Mask are
> two of the worst ever. I loved Elven and Dwarven Nations, as well as
Emperor of
> Ansalon. The Gates of Thorbardin and the Legend of Huma were also pretty good.
>
> Could someone please comment on the Irda, Kagonesti, and Dargonesti
novels? I'm
> considering buying them but I would like some critical feedback (no major
> spoilers please, just a general opinion).
>
> Thanks
>
> Rafael
Kagonesti was good. It was like a really short Elven Nations trilogy as the
novel is divided into three 'novellas' of different times in Kagonsti
history.
--
Edward J. Pollard - The Dark One
Dragonlance Mailing list Monitor - drago...@mpgn.com
The Dragonlance Saga Archive - http://www.uleth.ca/~proct_pollar/dragonlance
Sage of the World of Krynn
High Prelate of the Temple of the Macintosh
The Dark One (Edward J. Pollard)
> >As a matter of fact, I've never read any of Bob Salvatore's books. >None.
> >And though the plot of "The Dargonesti" is entirely the work of Tonya >and
> >myself, the Dargonesti themselves were created by TSR.
>
> first off... i must apologize if my comments offended you. it was not
> a direct attack at either your or sonya, but i was merely stating my
> opinion on the book.
Woo hoo! Author/reader fight! I love it!
Ok, Mr. Thompson. Now that we have your attention. I have a question.
I really enjoyed the novel Darkness and Light. Great read. But what DRUGS
were you SMOKING when you made it a Dragonlance novel??? It seemed to be a
cross between Spelljamming and the movie Them (A B SciFi film about giant
Ants). The gnomes were great, and the characters were interesting tho Kit
and Sturm did NOT act like Kit and Sturm. I must emphasise that I thought
it was a great book but it took far to many liberties with Krynn IMHO (not
nearly as odd as Tanis the Shadow Years, another good book that took a
character and made him do wierd things).
> i hope you're not that offended by what i said... i was merely stating
> my opinion. if it makes you feel any better... i did buy the dargonesti
> book! :)
Don't back down Cass. Every author who frequents this group should be
prepared for some scathing criticism. He shouldn't have been offended.
Urungus
4 me. I really liked "The Black Wing". Aside from almost all the other DL
books that I liked Dwarven Nations & Elven Nations were good. The Huma and
Kaz books also. (Mostly anything by Richard A. Knaak, just picked up "Land
of the Minotaurs"). There were a select few that were not written
"interestingly" enough. Some of the "Tales" books were good as well.
David Tolstrup <Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> wrote in article
<5jqd3f$4...@news.mel.aone.net.au>...
> IMHO, the best Dragonlance book by a nose is War of the Twins.
kinthalas
The Dark One (Edward J. Pollard) wrote:
>.... and the movie Them (A B SciFi film about giant Ants).
actually, the movie is _Them!_. you forgot your exclamation point.
kinthalas
<kint...@geocities.com>
P.S. good point though...
David Tolstrup
forever darkness <spi...@cyberbeach.net> wrote:
>
> >As a matter of fact, I've never read any of Bob Salvatore's books. >None.
> >And though the plot of "The Dargonesti" is entirely the work of Tonya >and
> >myself, the Dargonesti themselves were created by TSR.
>
> first off... i must apologize if my comments offended you. it was not
> a direct attack at either your or sonya, but i was merely stating my
> opinion on the book.
>
> by tsr, but the way you portrayed them in the book, they came across
> as drow. if you haven't read any of the drow novels by salvatore, then
> you must be psychic. :)
>
> i would assume you know a little bit about the drow... they're intent
> on domination of the surface world over their surface cousins... they
> dislike sunlight immensly... and they're purely evil. that's exactly
> what i read in the dargonesti book. they were portrayed as evil, led
> by a powerful queen (another spin-off of drow), coming up from the
> depths of the ocean to take over silvanesti. and their biggest
> weakness? the sunlight! it just seemed *way* to similar to drizzt's
> experiences with his past life.
>
> my opinion. if it makes you feel any better... i did buy the dargonesti
> book! :)
>
> --
> ______________________________________________________________________
> "the children of the night... what beautiful music they make"
> darkness... hidden from the eyes... absence of light...
>
> http://www.cyberbeach.net/~spirit
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
Did it burn well?
Rohan Tolstrup, who is relieved because the FBI think they have the
Unabomber
Stig Erik Sandoe
On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, The Dark One (Edward J. Pollard) wrote:
> > i hope you're not that offended by what i said... i was merely stating
> > my opinion. if it makes you feel any better... i did buy the dargonesti
> > book! :)
>
> Don't back down Cass. Every author who frequents this group should be
> prepared for some scathing criticism. He shouldn't have been offended.
If an author can't take criticism he/she should find another job.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Stig Erik Sandoe Institute of Informatics, University of Bergen
st...@ii.uib.no http://www.ii.uib.no/~stig/
forever darkness
proct_...@hg.uleth.ca (The Dark One (Edward J. Pollard)) wrote:
>> >As a matter of fact, I've never read any of Bob Salvatore's books. >None.
>> >And though the plot of "The Dargonesti" is entirely the work of Tonya >and
>> >myself, the Dargonesti themselves were created by TSR.
>>
>> first off... i must apologize if my comments offended you. it was not
>> a direct attack at either your or sonya, but i was merely stating my
>> opinion on the book.
>
>
>Woo hoo! Author/reader fight! I love it!
i'm hoping it doesn't turn into a big kafuffle! :)
>> i hope you're not that offended by what i said... i was merely stating
>> my opinion. if it makes you feel any better... i did buy the dargonesti
>> book! :)
>
>Don't back down Cass. Every author who frequents this group should be
>prepared for some scathing criticism. He shouldn't have been offended.
i hope not! mind you, i think i put it quite rude and blunt the way i
said it. but i *had* to! i didn't like the book in the least!
and if it'll make him feel even better, not only did i buy the
dargonesti, i've bought *all* of his dragonlance novels, no matter how
bad or good they were. and i really really really liked the elvan
nations trilogy... (even tho doug niles wrote the second one).
cassandra
The Dark One (Edward J. Pollard)
> >Don't back down Cass. Every author who frequents this group should be
> >prepared for some scathing criticism. He shouldn't have been offended.
>
> i hope not! mind you, i think i put it quite rude and blunt the way i
> said it. but i *had* to! i didn't like the book in the least!
I didn't read it as rude. I read it as honest. I'd think Mr. Thompson would
agree with that.
Steven & Jamie Bereyso
Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed the Dargonesti. The very
prospect of *intelligent* life everywhere on Krynn (skies, ocean, land)
allows for a lot of flexibility. I, for one, would recomend the
Dargonesti to anyone and everyone. I loved it!
Grollick Ironweaver
Thane of the Hylar
Janne Mi Petersen & Jørgen Christensen
Personally I love the Legends Trilogy where evil fight against good. The
brother hood between Raistlin and Caramon is so beautiful described that
I cannot put my poor words on it. As Crysania thought in Istar: " What
terrible hatred and what terrible love".
I can read the Legends Trilogy again and again and again, however, I
will always find new aspects to think at. As far as I know of the
Dragonlance Saga and the World of Krynn, I must say that it is the best
that I have ever read in my short life...and will be.
Janne Mi
Stig Erik Sandoe
On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Jubilee Wanderdust wrote:
> >> Don't back down Cass. Every author who frequents this group should be
> >> prepared for some scathing criticism. He shouldn't have been offended.
>
> >If an author can't take criticism he/she should find another job.
>
> I don't see anything wrong with an author responding to critism. And
> feelings aren't something you can easily control.
> I don't agree that just because someone has their writings published,
> they shouldn't be offended by harsh criticism. What do you mean by
> "can't tae criticism" Just because a person is an author and their
> work is criticized it doesn't mean they shouldn't be upset or hurt.
> Those are natural feelings.
What I mean is: "If you publish a book to a larger audience, you should
expect criticism. If you can't take criticism you should never have your
work published. Some authors never understand that and take it personal
if just anyone manages to critize their books."
Was that more clear? ;)
Mr Apol
If the question had been rude, I would have ignored it.
Paul B. Thompson
Frank O Wustner
The Beast (ste...@iastate.edu) wrote:
: Worst: 1) The Dark Queen. It's soooo boring...
I only half agree here. This one IS the worst, but it is not boring.
There is a lot of action in it. The problem is, all the action is so
poorly written as to induce projectile vomiting.
: 2) Stormblade...same as above.
I don't quite remember what I felt. I DO remember that I wasn't all that
impressed with this one. I also remember that "Hedrick the Theocrat" was
MUCH worse than anything in the Heroes 1&2 trilogies.
: 3) DONA
Well, not really the worst. It certainly could have been a LOT better,
but I thought the ending was quite good. Personally, I thought that
everything from the fight-with-spawn scene and onward was very well done
and everything before that was mediocre boardering on not-all-that-bad.
: Best: Chronicles & Legends
Nope. Best: "Lord Toede" by Jeff Grubb. THE best DL book of all time.
I doubt anything will EVER usurp its position.
On my list, Chronicles and Legends are now #2 and #3, though I haven't
decided which is which yet.
The Deadly Nightshade
|-----------------------------------|
|"I, too, believe in fate... |
|the fate a man makes for himself." |
|Lord Soth |
|-----------------------------------|
|"Quoth the raven, 'Eat my shorts!'"|
|Edgar Allan Bart |
|-----------------------------------|
|"Ack. Thpppbt." Bill the Cat |
|-----------------------------------|
Mathilas
Jubilee Wanderdust wrote:
<snip>
> In DoNA, the only parts I liked were the parts about
> the dragons. I didn't like that book too much. I
<snip>
Once again, the mysterious DoNA rears its ugly head. (BTW, Did anyone
figure out what it meant?)
Mathilas
forever darkness
proct_...@hg.uleth.ca (The Dark One (Edward J. Pollard)) wrote:
>> >Don't back down Cass. Every author who frequents this group should be
>> >prepared for some scathing criticism. He shouldn't have been offended.
>>
>> i hope not! mind you, i think i put it quite rude and blunt the way i
>> said it. but i *had* to! i didn't like the book in the least!
>
>I didn't read it as rude. I read it as honest. I'd think Mr. Thompson would
>agree with that.
i hope it wasn't rude. i can't remember what my original posting was,
but i know sometimes i can get really rude... especially when
expressing an opinion about something...
Rafael Pedro Viegas Canoa
In article <Pine.SUN.3.96.970430...@alfred.uib.no>,
stud...@alfred.uib.no says...
>
>
>Here's a mail I received from Paul B. Thompson where he answers my
>criticism to his books. He said I should feel free to post it here, and I
>thought you might like to see it, so here it is.
>
>Morten
>
>
>From MrA...@aol.com Wed Apr 30 12:16:42 1997
>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:48:20 -0400 (EDT)
>From: MrA...@aol.com
>To: stud...@student.uib.no
>Subject: Re: Best and Worst of Dragonlance
>
>I've heard some of the criticism of "Darkness and Light," and I must say I
>find it sort of baffling. After all, TSR and its editors must approve the
>books they publish, and no one there ever protested one iota about us sending
>Sturm & Company to Lunitari. Some people have also compalined that gnomish
>inventions shouldn't ever work; if you read D&L carefully you will see that
>none of the gnomes inventions ever work properly. If their airship had
>performed as it was supposed to, Sturm and Kitiara would have arrived at
>their destination and there would have been no story. Our inspiration for the
>lunar voyage of Sturm and Kitiara were the 17th century fantasies of Cyrano
>de Bergerac and William Godwin.
>
>Likewise, none of the editors at TSR had any problem with the plot of
>"Riverwind." Since neither Tonya nor I have the time (or inclination) to read
>every Dragonlance book, story, or gaming manual, we rely on the editors at
>TSR to keep us within bounds. We always try to test those bounds in an effort
>to make our stories distinctive and unusual. Some work out better than
>others, of course.
>
>The Dargonesti are not evil--they simply have evil leaders. The whole concept
>of an "evil" race, or a "good" race for that matter, is childish and
>unrealistic. Most true evil occurs because of competing concepts of good
>clash, not because of inherent evil. The latter is a theological concept I do
>not adhere to.
>
>As to whether Tonya and I will write more DL--well, given the current
>situation with TSR, it seems unlikely. I personally have not been happy with
>Brian Thomsen's tenure as editor in chief,and I doubt I would write anything
>for them while he is still there.
>
>Feel free to post this to alt.fan.dragonlance if you want.
>
>
>Paul B. Thompson
>
>
Very, very interesting. (Not being sarcastic either)
Raf
Morten Brattbakk
Nickell
Mathilas <dan...@mail.jps.net> wrote in article
<336668...@mail.jps.net>...
:
Dawning of a New Age.
Candee
Arn!e
On 30 Apr 1997, Nickell wrote:
> Dawning of a New Age.
Number 8 on Arn!e's list of crappy DL stories...
If for no other reason than Easley's cover was...poorly done
-Arn!e
Jubilee Wanderdust
Stig Erik Sandoe <st...@ii.uib.no> wrote:
>What I mean is: "If you publish a book to a larger audience, you should
>expect criticism. If you can't take criticism you should never have your
>work published. Some authors never understand that and take it personal
>if just anyone manages to critize their books."
>Was that more clear? ;)
Yes. Thank you Mr. Stig :)
Theresa Dinh
On 30 Apr 1997, Nickell wrote:
> Mathilas <dan...@mail.jps.net> wrote in article
> <336668...@mail.jps.net>...
> :
> : Once again, the mysterious DoNA rears its ugly head. (BTW, Did anyone
> : figure out what it meant?)
> :
> : Mathilas
> :
> Dawning of a New Age.
>
> Candee
>
>
Dead on Nuclear Arrival?
Bri
David Tolstrup
>
> Raf
>
>
If it's any consolation to 'Mr Apol' (whatthe****?) Darkness and Light
was the least worst of the Preludes (I don't think anything could top
Kendermore and Brothers Majere). Riverwind was more or less okay, but
don't use 'the TSR editors liked it' as a criterion. They just want to
cash in on a good eight-book series. Did he ask Margaret Weis and/or
Tracy Hickman, or any serious DL fan?
Rohan Tolstrup
Morten Brattbakk
Also, I think that a story where some characters are going to Lunitari
would have worked much better with original characters than Sturm and
Kitiara. BTW Paul, why did you include a dragon in the story? In the
beginning of DoAT it was quite clear that Sturm didn't believe in dragons.
Morten
Marriat
Morten Brattbakk wrote:
> Also, I think that a story where some characters are going to Lunitari
> would have worked much better with original characters than Sturm and
> Kitiara. BTW Paul, why did you include a dragon in the story? In the
> beginning of DoAT it was quite clear that Sturm didn't believe in dragons.
>
> Morten
It must have slipped past the editors, just like all the other mistakes
in Preludes and Meetings Sextet. :/
What I'm really curious to know is, did these other authors even READ
the chronicles before they wrote for DL? It's almost obvious they
didn't, and it's just as obvious that they SHOULD have. They really
should make that a policy for authors before they start writing more
(crappy ;) stories with the major DL characters.
--
Janet Jia-Ee Chui alias Marriat
The Complete "Things you Should know about Raistlin"
http://www.singnet.com.sg/~martian/krynn/raistfaq.html
Q: How many Raistlins does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: None. It's a man's job.
Mr Apol
In fact, Tonya and I did read the Weis & Hickman sextet before we wrote
Darkness and Light. The real difference is, of course, that she and I are
not Weis and Hickman. We didn't try to be. We wrote the story we wanted to
tell and relied on the editors at TSR to keep us within the boundaries of
DL lore.
Our synopsis caused something of a stir when it arrived. The story we
heard was that the assistant editor read it, was startled, so he showed it
to the senior editor. She was kind of suprised, to they took it down the
hall to the Most Senior Gaming Guru of Dragonlance, and asked, "Thompson
and Carter want to send Sturm & Kitiara to one of the moons. Can they do
that?"
Quoth the Most Senior Guru: "Why not?"
This was in 1988. I don't think at that time Weis & Hickman were still on
hand at TSR (they can correct me if I'm wrong; I believe they had departed
shortly before to begin writing their successful non-Dragonlance books). I
did talk to Ms. Weis and several occasions before this in regards to some
other work, but as I recall, she was not involved with the company during
the time Darkness and Light was written.
Now, if you want to classify us, I am a historian by training, and a SF
writer by inclination. Tonya has a journalism degree, and her favorite
form of fiction is mysteries. We had collaborated on an unsuccessful,
unpublished novel that happened to be heroic fantasy. We submitted it to
TSR, among others, but it never found a home. In 1987 TSR bought our
original novel "Red Sands," which is a pseudo-Arabian Nights style
fantasy. It was after those efforts that TSR approached us to write a
Dragonlance novel.
It may not occur to the diehard fans on this newsgroup, but writing for
publication in a pre-existing universe is fraught with perils. Consider
for example the huge numbers of "Star Trek" novels that exist. No one can
ever write a Trek novel that advances the characterizations which have
already been established through TV and movies. Trek novels must end with
the known characters exactly in the same condition as when the book began.
One advantage Trek has over Dragonlance is that no one writer (or pair of
writers, in this case) is closely identified as being the "real" writers
of Star Trek. In Dragonlance, there's Weis and Hickman (though others at
TSR contributed to the creation of Krynn). The early novels became
underground bestsellers, largely by word of mouth. With the departure of
W&H from TSR, the company faced a dilemma: how to continue an increasingly
popular series without the two writers most responsible for its success?
So others were enlisted, including Tonya Carter and me. We opted to not to
try to imitate Weis and Hickman, but write in our own way. As a model for
Darkness and Light, we chose the strange 17th century fantasy stories,
"Voyage to the Sun and Moon" by Cyrano de Bergerac, and "Man in the Moon"
by Francis Godwin. These quaint old tales feature space travel by bottles
of dew, fireworks rockets (first use of rockets in space travel!), and a
flock of geese harnessed to a frame.
"Riverwind the Plainsman" was influenced by 19th century exploration
stories like Verne's "Journey to the Center of the Earth" and Poe's
"Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym." Oh, and a touch of George Sylvester
Viereck.
"Firstborn" is an opera. No musical score, but it is styled and formatted
like a grand opera.
"The Qualinesti" is modeled on ancient Greek epics. The lost son who ends
up murdering his father . . . you get it.
"The Dargonesti" is our version of pure pulp, 1930s style, with sea
monsters, blue skinned babes and fighting galore.
As works of fiction, some of these worked out better than others. I have
my favorites among them, and some I wish I had the time and opportunity to
re-write. Likewise I think the Dragonlance books not written by Weis and
Hickman vary widely in quality (don't ask me what ones I think are good or
bad; I won't say. My opinion is only my opinion. Form your own). A lot of
them were written by people who had never written a novel before--and
some, none since. I think this was done to favor certain people who were
close to TSR's editorial staff, and also to save money. A new, unknown
writer is not in any position to demand a higher advance and royalty rate.
They're usually so grateful for publication, they'll take just about
anything offered to them. The decline in the quality of Dragonlance is
also due to the increasingly cramped situation as more of the history of
Krynn was sketched in. After a couple dozen titles, it is very hard to
make all the stories jibe with each other.
I hope this makes some things clearer. All of the above is my own
interpretation of events, not Tonya Carter's or anyone else's. Corrections
of fact are welcome.
Paul B. Thompson
Mr Apol
All of the general structures of the Dragonlance books--the time period
and the featured characters--were prescribed by TSR. In some specific
cases, like the Elven Nations books, certain aspects of the plot were
prearranged to conform to establish Krynn history, but the plots &
subsidiary characters were left to the authors' invention.
Thus Darkness and Light was supposed to be about Sturm and Kitiara's
travels in the time period before ( or between) books of the orignal
series. TSr wanted some refernces to Sturm's search for his father, but
that was all the plot direction they insisted on. We then had to submit
for their approval a plotline that encompassed these events. The same
process applied to Riverwind. As I said, the Elven Nations books were a
little more complicated, in that they had to more closely fit into a
pre-existing history. Also complicating matters was that the middle book
of the trilogy was written by Doug Niles instead of me and Tonya. This led
to some minor anxieties, such as discovering Doug had killed off a minor
character in The Kinslayer Wars we wanted to use in The Qualinesti . . .
but we worked it out in the end.
The Dark One (Edward J. Pollard)
In article <19970515030...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, mra...@aol.com
(Mr Apol) wrote:
> In fact, Tonya and I did read the Weis & Hickman sextet before we wrote
> Darkness and Light. The real difference is, of course, that she and I are
> not Weis and Hickman. We didn't try to be. We wrote the story we wanted to
> tell and relied on the editors at TSR to keep us within the boundaries of
> DL lore.
Well I think time has shown how well those Editors did their job :-)
> Our synopsis caused something of a stir when it arrived. The story we
> heard was that the assistant editor read it, was startled, so he showed it
> to the senior editor. She was kind of suprised, to they took it down the
> hall to the Most Senior Gaming Guru of Dragonlance, and asked, "Thompson
> and Carter want to send Sturm & Kitiara to one of the moons. Can they do
> that?"
>
> Quoth the Most Senior Guru: "Why not?"
I am most certainly not opposed to the concept of going to Luinitari. But
try melding your work with the DLE series of modules that feature the
portal to the plane of the Astral Dragon on Luinitari. It doesn't jive. I'm
only saying this to show that the Dragonlance authors, in regards to
continuity, were obviously stoned nine times out of ten. :-)
I quite clearly see that. However the conclusion of "Milk the characters
for all that they have" was the incorrect one to make with such a
_interesing_ world.
> So others were enlisted, including Tonya Carter and me. We opted to not to
> try to imitate Weis and Hickman, but write in our own way. As a model for
> Darkness and Light, we chose the strange 17th century fantasy stories,
> "Voyage to the Sun and Moon" by Cyrano de Bergerac, and "Man in the Moon"
> by Francis Godwin. These quaint old tales feature space travel by bottles
> of dew, fireworks rockets (first use of rockets in space travel!), and a
> flock of geese harnessed to a frame.
The thing is, when your using someone elses characters, you SHOULD try and
imitate them. Have you noticed the concensus? "Darkness and Light was a
damn fine book, but boy did Kitiara and Sturm act strangely..."
I thought the book was very well written. I enjoyed it. But if the main
characters had had their names changed to Steven and Karen it would have
been a better one :-) Noone would be sitting there going "Hmmmmmm...this is
not Sturm."
This is not a criticism Mr. Thompson. I enjoyed Firstborn and Qualinesti as
well (the continuity cops were again out to lunch however). So, why write
Volume 1 and 3 of a trilogy but not volume 2? Oh well that is an aside...
> "The Dargonesti" is our version of pure pulp, 1930s style, with sea
> monsters, blue skinned babes and fighting galore.
I have not read it, but Krynn doesnt seem to me to be a world for 1930s
style pulp...
I am sending this in email as well. Just to make sure you read it :-) Be
sure to remove the spam blocker if you wish to reply.
--
Edward J. Pollard - The Dark One
Remove the '[NoJunkMail]' from my email address to send me email.
Dragonlance Mailing list Monitor - drago...@mpgn.com
The Dragonlance Saga Archive - http://www.uleth.ca/~proct_pollar/dragonlance
Home of Age of the Dragons, Taladas in the Fifth Age
The Dark One (Edward J. Pollard)
In article <19970517121...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, mra...@aol.com
(Mr Apol) wrote:
> Tonya and would have been delighted to write all three books in the Elven
> Nations trilogy, but TSR gave the contract for volume 2 to Doug Niles. Go
> figure.
Wierd.
> As for gaming modules, I have to ask (mostly out of curiosity): which came
> first, the modules you mention, or Darkness and Light? D&L was written in
> '88, and published in '89. Maybe the modules didn't follow our lead?
The DLE series was published in 1989. At least the copyright is 89.
Probably written in 88 like your book.
> In fact, there seemed to be very little coordination at TSR between the
> books department and the gaming department. It was not until the time of
> our writing the Elven Nations books (1990-91) that TSR provided us with
> gaming manuals that contained previously compiled info on the Dargonesti
> Elves.
Is it just me, or is that just stupid? They are both Dragonlance...
> As a final comment, I might note that TSR mispelled my name on the title
> page of "Red Sands." They listed me as Paul B. Thompsom . . . and omitted
> the title page in the galley proofs sent to Tonya and me.
Hehehehehhe. Oh well. At least they didn't make the cheque out to that name. :-)
--
Edward J. Pollard - The Dark One
Remove the '[NoJunkMail]' from my email address to send me email.
Dragonlance Mailing list Monitor - drago...@mpgn.com
The Dragonlance Saga Archive - http://www.efgsolutions.com/dragonlance
The Dark One (Edward J. Pollard)
In article <19970518135...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, mra...@aol.com
(Mr Apol) wrote:
> Now you know why they're in the state they are today.
"Hear hear well spoken Bruce!"
Morten Brattbakk
On Sat, 17 May 1997, The Dark One (Edward J. Pollard) wrote:
> In article <19970515030...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, mra...@aol.com
> (Mr Apol) wrote:
> > It may not occur to the diehard fans on this newsgroup, but writing for
> > publication in a pre-existing universe is fraught with perils. Consider
> > for example the huge numbers of "Star Trek" novels that exist. No one can
> > ever write a Trek novel that advances the characterizations which have
> > already been established through TV and movies. Trek novels must end with
> > the known characters exactly in the same condition as when the book began.
> > One advantage Trek has over Dragonlance is that no one writer (or pair of
> > writers, in this case) is closely identified as being the "real" writers
> > of Star Trek. In Dragonlance, there's Weis and Hickman (though others at
> > TSR contributed to the creation of Krynn). The early novels became
> > underground bestsellers, largely by word of mouth. With the departure of
> > W&H from TSR, the company faced a dilemma: how to continue an increasingly
> > popular series without the two writers most responsible for its success?
>
> I quite clearly see that. However the conclusion of "Milk the characters
> for all that they have" was the incorrect one to make with such a
> _interesing_ world.
There is a big difference between the DL and the Star Trek universe which
is relevant here. I'm not all too familiar with ST, but from what I've
seen of book covers and comics, all are about the characters which have
initially appeared in one of the TV series. Dragonlance is more of a
world, and it shouldn't be necessary to write about the same characters
all the time. One of the problems is, it has been done. But new characters
in unexplored parts of the world is a possibility in DL much more than in
ST. (Or so I imagine.)
> > So others were enlisted, including Tonya Carter and me. We opted to not to
> > try to imitate Weis and Hickman, but write in our own way. As a model for
> > Darkness and Light, we chose the strange 17th century fantasy stories,
> > "Voyage to the Sun and Moon" by Cyrano de Bergerac, and "Man in the Moon"
> > by Francis Godwin. These quaint old tales feature space travel by bottles
> > of dew, fireworks rockets (first use of rockets in space travel!), and a
> > flock of geese harnessed to a frame.
>
> The thing is, when your using someone elses characters, you SHOULD try and
> imitate them. Have you noticed the concensus? "Darkness and Light was a
> damn fine book, but boy did Kitiara and Sturm act strangely..."
>
> I thought the book was very well written. I enjoyed it. But if the main
> characters had had their names changed to Steven and Karen it would have
> been a better one :-) Noone would be sitting there going "Hmmmmmm...this is
> not Sturm."
>
> This is not a criticism Mr. Thompson. I enjoyed Firstborn and Qualinesti as
> well (the continuity cops were again out to lunch however). So, why write
> Volume 1 and 3 of a trilogy but not volume 2? Oh well that is an aside...
>
> > "The Dargonesti" is our version of pure pulp, 1930s style, with sea
> > monsters, blue skinned babes and fighting galore.
>
>
> I have not read it, but Krynn doesnt seem to me to be a world for 1930s
> style pulp...
I really enjoyed that book. Krynn can (and probably should) be a place for
many different styles, as Paul noted. Books range from silly comedy (Lord
Toede) to grim, dark tales (Before the Mask, the only M. Williams novel I
didn't bore my way through.)
Morten