[DBZ] TV Guide shedding light on DBZ
Ed Gorgen
Hi folks,
In the latest issue of TV Guide, it reads;
"Japanese animation - <i>anime</i>, to the initiated- is rapidly becoming a
full-fledged fad here, and Japan's top children's show is riding that wave
into U.S. syndication ... Dragon BallZ's blend of complex sci-fi and fantasy
concepts, sill cartoon comedy, and well-rendered action may seem strange
unless you happen to possess a child's freedom from preconceptions. After
all, Saban Entertainment's previous Japanese import was a little weird and
wacky, too. You may have heard of it. It was called Mighty Morphin Power
Rangers."
Maybe so, TV Guide, but let's not forget ... MMPR was lunched on FOX, with
ADS to the max. DBZ has recieved no advertising whatsoever. I really don't
see how this show will survive. Also, DBZ ain't just a children's show! It
may be one here, but it sure as hell isn't in Japan.
Then again, the picture above the ariticle shows a 10 year old Gohan flying
with Kurrin, which are in episodes WAY past the predecited 20 episode limit,
with the credit caption saying "Saban" under the picture. I'd say this is a
good sign, don't you?
Later,
Ed
Ed Gorgen ego...@earthlink.net
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David Crowe
Ed Gorgen <ego...@earthlink.net> wrote:
: Maybe so, TV Guide, but let's not forget ... MMPR was lunched on FOX, with
: ADS to the max. DBZ has recieved no advertising whatsoever. I really don't
: see how this show will survive. Also, DBZ ain't just a children's show! It
: may be one here, but it sure as hell isn't in Japan.
How do you figure it isn't a children's show in Japan? Based on the
products they advertise on it there, I'd say it is definatly aimed at kids
first.
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe No generalization is true
-not even this one.
Nora Jemison
Ed Gorgen wrote:
> Maybe so, TV Guide, but let's not forget ... MMPR was lunched on FOX, with
> ADS to the max. DBZ has recieved no advertising whatsoever. I really don't
> see how this show will survive. Also, DBZ ain't just a children's show! It
> may be one here, but it sure as hell isn't in Japan.
Dragonball/Z is very much aimed at children---it's *shonen,* which
means its primary audience is intended to be young,
not-quite-adolescent boys. You may be mistaking the fact that the
Japanese have different standards of what's considered decent for kids
to watch, for an "adult" rating . . . they're not as anal in other
parts of the world as we NA folks are about stuff like nudity and
violence. From what I can tell, it's story content, not minor stuff
like a quick glimpse of adult Gokuu's bare butt or 220
violent-acts-per-episode that designates something as "adult anime";
DB/Z has a fairly simple plot and theme compared with the manga aimed
at older men, or housewives, or career women, which are in many ways
too deep for children to understand. Make no mistake; much of the
anime that gets brought over to the US *is* shonen or shojo, aimed at
children. It's just usually a heck of a lot more sophisticated than
the brain-sludge aimed at kids here. ^_^
Nora
--
Nora Jemison (formerly NKJem)
http://wam.umd.edu/~njemison/
"You'll never prove a thing copper, I'm just a part time electrician.
I... I... I... BAD IS GOOD, BABY! DOWN WITH GOVERNMENT!"
--The Midnight Bomber What Bombs At Midnight
Gregg T. Allinson
David Crowe (jet...@primenet.com) wrote:
: Ed Gorgen <ego...@earthlink.net> wrote:
: : Maybe so, TV Guide, but let's not forget ... MMPR was lunched on FOX, with
: : ADS to the max. DBZ has recieved no advertising whatsoever. I really don't
: : see how this show will survive. Also, DBZ ain't just a children's show! It
: : may be one here, but it sure as hell isn't in Japan.
: How do you figure it isn't a children's show in Japan? Based on the
: products they advertise on it there, I'd say it is definatly aimed at kids
: first.
A few weeks ago, I was watching the Bardok special. Blood flies like
crazy, and the final image is of Vejita sitting in the center of a
planetful of bodies. I followed that up with the Trunks special, in which
half the world is brutally slain by Androids.
Just two examples of why DBZ is *not* a "children's show".
--
Au Bon Pain!,
Gregg "Dave" Allinson
Visit The Scrapyard ("Oh no! It's Aunt Esther!") @ http://miso.wwa.com/~roscoe
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Sea Wasp
> A few weeks ago, I was watching the Bardok special. Blood flies like
> crazy, and the final image is of Vejita sitting in the center of a
> planetful of bodies. I followed that up with the Trunks special, in which
> half the world is brutally slain by Androids.
>
> Just two examples of why DBZ is *not* a "children's show".
Umm, sorry, thanks for playing.
In Japan, they don't have the same silly standards that include:
1) Heroes and villains can use immense powers and weapons on
each other
2) This never draws any real blood
3) Really bad things never happen and fighting doesn't have
consequences.
No, in Japan.. on CHILDREN'S shows... characters are allowed to
die, bloodily. Be tortured. Bad guys do Bad things, like eat
the flesh of human and other intelligent beings.
To me, this is much better than the American approach which
teaches kids that violence doesn't really hurt anyone.
It may well be that it would be better still not to HAVE any
violent shows, but given that you DO have them, isn't it better
to have the kids realize that punching people, slashing them
with swords, and so on REALLY DOES HURT THEM?
Note also that in Japanese children's shows they can have very
lewd, crude toilet and sex humor, some of which IS targeted
at the parents, who are expected to be watching WITH their
children. But bare breasts are shown on kids' shows.. hell,
Patalliro! was a children's show, and I can't THINK of how
many FCC regulations THAT sucker would have broken. Or Doctor
Slump, for that matter.
Enrique Conty
In article <550s9s$6...@kirin.wwa.com> ros...@wwa.com (Gregg T. Allinson) writes:
>
>A few weeks ago, I was watching the Bardok special. Blood flies like
>crazy, and the final image is of Vejita sitting in the center of a
>planetful of bodies. I followed that up with the Trunks special, in which
>half the world is brutally slain by Androids.
>
>Just two examples of why DBZ is *not* a "children's show".
What, just because there's some violence it stops being a kid's show?
Let's get something straight: kids eat that stuff up, they absolutely
love it. It's the same reason why fighting games and "grim and gritty"
comics are so popular. (Much to the chagrin of their parents, who think
that stuff is "bad for them". :-/)
This is all glamorized and sanitized, "cool" and "fun" violence.
The bad guys kill people by the hundreds and destroy the world,
sure, that lets us hiss and boo at them because they're such bad guys.
But there's no truly disturbing imagery present. If there were,
it would turn the kids off, and the show's creators would be without a job.
--
Enrique Conty | co...@cig.mot.com | http://www.mcs.net/~conty
Come to Anime Central, the Midwest's Best Anime Convention!
April 3-5 1998, Holiday Inn O'Hare, Rosemont, IL. (A suburb of Chicago)
Visit our website at http://www.mcs.net/~docangst/3w/ac/
Ed Gorgen
In Article <32740F...@wizvax.net>, Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net> wrote:
>Gregg T. Allinson wrote:
>
>> A few weeks ago, I was watching the Bardok special. Blood flies like
>> crazy, and the final image is of Vejita sitting in the center of a
>> planetful of bodies. I followed that up with the Trunks special, in which
>> half the world is brutally slain by Androids.
>>
>> Just two examples of why DBZ is *not* a "children's show".
> In Japan, they don't have the same silly standards that include:
>
> 1) Heroes and villains can use immense powers and weapons on
>each other
> 2) This never draws any real blood
> 3) Really bad things never happen and fighting doesn't have
>consequences.
>
> No, in Japan.. on CHILDREN'S shows... characters are allowed to
>die, bloodily. Be tortured. Bad guys do Bad things, like eat
>the flesh of human and other intelligent beings.
Reading back on all the posts here, I now have to agree with y'all. Japan's
calture and well being is just plain different. I tent to forget who much
violence and nudity is accepted down there. It's a shame that it's not as
accpetable here as it is overseas, but then again that's what makes us USA,
now doesn't it? =)
>
> To me, this is much better than the American approach which
>teaches kids that violence doesn't really hurt anyone.
Ah, but remember, children here are just plain stupid. They don't get the
moral of the story, or what the true story behind characters actions, etc.
are .. Well, not just the children, the parents as well just don't get it.
All the see is the violence, and that's bad. Remember Beavis and Butthead?
Remember Ninja Turtles? All parents want these days are these "wholesome"
bullshit filled cartoons or shows for our contries children. I guess I can't
win either way. People _just don't get it_.
Now back to watching those DBZ episodes! Ah, I see Goku is in "Heil" insteid
of "Hell" .. interesting!
The Evil Professor Chronos
ego...@earthlink.net (Ed Gorgen) wrote:
>Now back to watching those DBZ episodes! Ah, I see Goku is in "Heil"
>insteid of "Hell" .. interesting!
I myself am still wondering why on earth they didn't change
it to "Heck" a la Tiny Toons. It can't be THAT much more work
to alter the writing, and "Heck" would have allowed them to
keep the reference without offending anyone ...
Does anyone else think it's WEIRD some of the stuff that
they do and don't change? In the "Arlia" episode, they didn't
seem to mind admitting that the king and his guards were all
"destroyed" (or showing the king getting his royal chest
caved in by Vegeta's nifty telekinetic trick ...) but when
Vegeta blows up the planet two minutes later, they have Napa
say he "sent it into another dimension" ...
... Piccolo can get his arm blown off, and Gohan can slice
a dinosaur's tail with a sword, and Napa can rip off that
insect monster's finger and send brown blood splattering all
over, but heaven forbid we should see that energy blast going
through Goku! (Oops, forgot, "heaven" is a no-no too ... :)
Is there some kind of bizarre set of guidelines for US kids
TV that they're following, or are they just being cautious in
a really strange way?
(And if it IS a set of guidelines, and anyone has a copy,
care to post it? I'd be really interested in seeing how it is
that you can lop arms off but not blow up planets. :)
-- Mark S Sprague, aka The Evil Professor Chronos --
[It's still better than what DIC did to Sailor Moon ...]
The Evil Professor Chronos
Sea Wasp
>
> ego...@earthlink.net (Ed Gorgen) wrote:
>
> >Now back to watching those DBZ episodes! Ah, I see Goku is in "Heil"
> >insteid of "Hell" .. interesting!
>
> I myself am still wondering why on earth they didn't change
> it to "Heck" a la Tiny Toons. It can't be THAT much more work
> to alter the writing, and "Heck" would have allowed them to
> keep the reference without offending anyone ...
>
> Does anyone else think it's WEIRD some of the stuff that
> they do and don't change? In the "Arlia" episode, they didn't
> seem to mind admitting that the king and his guards were all
> "destroyed" (or showing the king getting his royal chest
> caved in by Vegeta's nifty telekinetic trick ...) but when
> Vegeta blows up the planet two minutes later, they have Napa
> say he "sent it into another dimension" ...
>
> ... Piccolo can get his arm blown off, and Gohan can slice
> a dinosaur's tail with a sword, and Napa can rip off that
> insect monster's finger and send brown blood splattering all
> over, but heaven forbid we should see that energy blast going
> through Goku! (Oops, forgot, "heaven" is a no-no too ... :)
>
> Is there some kind of bizarre set of guidelines for US kids
> TV that they're following, or are they just being cautious in
> a really strange way?
Both to some extent. But mostly it's the odd censorship rules
in the USA. You can't show HUMAN BEINGS getting killed or seriously
injured, especially with blood. So while Piccolo can lose an arm,
Goku can't get the hole bored through him and spit blood. You can
kill nonhumans, but not humans (dunno what they're going to do about
the battle against Nappa, since he kills Yamucha).
You can't talk directly about any given afterlife, since that would
be getting you into head-on conflict with EVERY religious nutcase
group on the continent...
Herman Bernard Walker
In article <559733$9...@news.inforamp.net>,
The Evil Professor Chronos <crs...@inforamp.net> wrote:
>ego...@earthlink.net (Ed Gorgen) wrote:
>
>>Now back to watching those DBZ episodes! Ah, I see Goku is in "Heil"
>>insteid of "Hell" .. interesting!
>
> I myself am still wondering why on earth they didn't change
>it to "Heck" a la Tiny Toons. It can't be THAT much more work
>to alter the writing, and "Heck" would have allowed them to
>keep the reference without offending anyone ...
>
of insufficient light or something...
> Does anyone else think it's WEIRD some of the stuff that
>they do and don't change? In the "Arlia" episode, they didn't
>seem to mind admitting that the king and his guards were all
>"destroyed" (or showing the king getting his royal chest
>caved in by Vegeta's nifty telekinetic trick ...) but when
>Vegeta blows up the planet two minutes later, they have Napa
>say he "sent it into another dimension" ...
>
This caused me pain too... just <Joel mode=deepvoice>DO WHAT
I DO...</Joel>
Nappa:You sure sent that planet to another dimension.
Vegita:15, actually, but who's counting? <hehe>
> ... Piccolo can get his arm blown off, and Gohan can slice
>a dinosaur's tail with a sword, and Napa can rip off that
>insect monster's finger and send brown blood splattering all
>over, but heaven forbid we should see that energy blast going
>through Goku! (Oops, forgot, "heaven" is a no-no too ... :)
>
> Is there some kind of bizarre set of guidelines for US kids
>TV that they're following, or are they just being cautious in
>a really strange way?
>
> (And if it IS a set of guidelines, and anyone has a copy,
>care to post it? I'd be really interested in seeing how it is
>that you can lop arms off but not blow up planets. :)
>
> -- Mark S Sprague, aka The Evil Professor Chronos --
>
> [It's still better than what DIC did to Sailor Moon ...]
Bern Walker
...it STILL beats USA's Street Fighter...(yeah,yeah, what DOESN'T)...
bina...@mit.edu
Sea Wasp
>
> Sea Wasp (sea...@wizvax.net) wrote:
>
> : in the USA. You can't show HUMAN BEINGS getting killed or seriously
> : injured, especially with blood. So while Piccolo can lose an arm,
> : Goku can't get the hole bored through him and spit blood. You can
> : kill nonhumans, but not humans (dunno what they're going to do about
> : the battle against Nappa, since he kills Yamucha).
> Could you have meant that you didn't know what they were going to do
> about Nappa disarming Tenshinhan?
Should have said "has Yamucha killed".
Tenshinhan has three eyes; humans don't have three eyes, so they
might squeak that one. Humans have noses, so Kuririn could
die in the Freezer sequence since he doesn't have one. Piccolo
is no problem. But Yamucha is undoubtedly human.
Steven J Simmons
Sea Wasp (sea...@wizvax.net) wrote:
: in the USA. You can't show HUMAN BEINGS getting killed or seriously
: injured, especially with blood. So while Piccolo can lose an arm,
: Goku can't get the hole bored through him and spit blood. You can
: kill nonhumans, but not humans (dunno what they're going to do about
: the battle against Nappa, since he kills Yamucha).
Actually, it's one of those Saibai men that does in Yamucha. No
problem with Krillen (!) finishing them off, though, 'cause they're
not humans either.
Could you have meant that you didn't know what they were going to do
about Nappa disarming Tenshinhan?
_ ___ ___ ___ ___
_`| / __`| / __`| / __`| / .-^ ___ Steven J. Simmons
---/ /----/ /----/ /----/ /--=^^ ^^=, ssim...@eng.utah.edu
--/ /----/ /----/ /----/ /---=__ __=' "Dragon, Dragon, Rotten Dragon"
|._/ |._/ |._/ |._/ ^^^ --DBZ Theme, according to Vidmark's CC
The Evil Professor Chronos
In article <327ACD...@wizvax.net>, Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net> wrote:
>Steven J Simmons wrote:
>
>> Could you have meant that you didn't know what they were going to do
>> about Nappa disarming Tenshinhan?
>
> Should have said "has Yamucha killed".
>
> Tenshinhan has three eyes; humans don't have three eyes, so they
>might squeak that one. Humans have noses, so Kuririn could
>die in the Freezer sequence since he doesn't have one. Piccolo
>is no problem. But Yamucha is undoubtedly human.
They did manage to cleverly get around Goku's death by simply
being rather vague about it ... they just don't use the words
"killed" "died" or "dead", and at one point Krilyn says that Goku
is "trapped in another dimension".
Come to think of it, Nappa's "another dimension" comment at the
end of the Arlia episode could actually be a production staff in-
joke, rather like "Captured by the Negaverse" on Sailor Moon. :)
I'm not sure if simply not drawing attention to Yamcha's death
would work, though, since I haven't seen how it happens. Probably
they'll just cut out some of the really nasty bits, and have him
"badly hurt". :P
Have TV regulations changed in the US in the past few years? I
remember the GI Joe made-for-TV "movie" several years back had
one of the main characters get impaled on a spear, splattering
blood everywhere, and then collapse and go into a coma for the
rest of the movie. If that's not "seriously hurt, with blood", I
don't know what is ...
[I wonder if Kamesennin's "message from heaven" will make it
into the English version ..? :)]
Sea Wasp
>
> The Evil Professor Chronos (crs...@inforamp.net) wrote:
> : ego...@earthlink.net (Ed Gorgen) wrote:
>
> : TV that they're following, or are they just being cautious in
> : a really strange way?
>
> : (And if it IS a set of guidelines, and anyone has a copy,
> : care to post it? I'd be really interested in seeing how it is
> : that you can lop arms off but not blow up planets. :)
>
> had done to numerous civilizations on his journey from Krypton to Earth.
> He killed numerous aliens (they showed blasts from his ship disintegrate
> his targets) and blew up planets (Krypton exploded, another was
> shot with a large blast and the screen went white). So if this is
> acceptable for viewing on TV (and there was no explanation of Brainiac
> sending any civilizations to the Phantom Zone or another dimension), then
> I'd suspect that Funimation is policing itself or these guidelines only apply
> to imported programs.
Aliens aren't humans. I suspect that had Piccolo been human rather
than Namek, he wouldn't have been allowed to lose his arm. Krypton
was already known to have exploded, so at the most all they were doing
was "putting the blame" on Brainiac for something that was a fait
accompli. Killing off aliens is permissible, especially if it's
bloodless (green ichor isn't blood). If they show Brainiac running
Perry White through with a sword (and it doesn't turn out to be
an android duplicate of Perry or something) they're violating the
guidelines. If J'onn J'onz gets vaporized by a laser blast, it's
okay, because he's not human and there wasn't any blood.
Joe Iglesias
Sea Wasp (sea...@wizvax.net) wrote:
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: Steven J Simmons wrote:
: >
: > Sea Wasp (sea...@wizvax.net) wrote:
: >
: > : in the USA. You can't show HUMAN BEINGS getting killed or seriously
: > : injured, especially with blood. So while Piccolo can lose an arm,
: > : Goku can't get the hole bored through him and spit blood. You can
: > : kill nonhumans, but not humans (dunno what they're going to do about
: > : the battle against Nappa, since he kills Yamucha).
: > Could you have meant that you didn't know what they were going to do
: > about Nappa disarming Tenshinhan?
: Should have said "has Yamucha killed".
: Tenshinhan has three eyes; humans don't have three eyes, so they
: might squeak that one. Humans have noses, so Kuririn could
: die in the Freezer sequence since he doesn't have one. Piccolo
: is no problem. But Yamucha is undoubtedly human.
Keep in mind that none of the Saiyajin are "human", as
such, and they have tails to boot. Thus, they technically could've been more
graphic with Goku, but they probably didn't since he's the hero.