New Dub vs. Old Dub: The Comparison! (episode 1)
The Super Saiya-jin Jedi
That’s right... now that I’ve seen the new version of the dub on Cartoon
Network, I’ve put together a detailed comparison of the 1995 and 2001
edited versions of this episode. I’ve discovered a few surprising things,
although other things were just as I thought. So... let’s begin, shall we?
THE OCEAN GROUP/KIDMARK DUB (1995)
Episode Title: Secret of the Dragon Ball
Censorship:
-Goku is given digitally-painted briefs during his naked fishing
expedition. The upside of it is that the scene isn’t cut, but it just looks
plain ridiculous.
-The scene where Bulma shoots Goku is cut. The two versions use two
different shots of Goku, though (this one uses footage of him just
before the cut). (about 10 seconds)
-When Goku raises the back of Bulma’s dress (to check to see if she
has a tail), her panties are digitally painted to cover more.
-When Mai explains the Dragon Balls to Pilaf, and when Bulma talks
about the outside world to Goku, extra footage is thrown in. I’m not
sure why, exactly, but I think it has to do with gaining time lost by the
cuts.
-The scene where Bulma lifts her dress and offers to let Goku feel her
up (including his reaction) is cut. However, this version retains a little
more of the animation just before the cut than the new dub does.
Voices:
Saffron Henderson’s Goku just doesn’t sound right to me... I don’t know
if it’s the way she voices him, or the fact that I’ve gotten used to
Stephanie Nadolny, but I don’t even think Ms. Henderson’s Gohan
sounded like this. This version of Bulma is a little better than
Stephanie Nadolny’s. The narrator sounds nearly the same as the new
one.
Dialogue:
I’d say that this version is just about as accurate as the other. Some
lines are closer to the Japanese in this version, and some lines are
closer in the other. And some are just way off. Still, it’s interesting to
see how the same lines can be interpreted differently by different
people (though I think the writers may have been the same for both
versions).
The announcer is given some kinda corny stuff at the very beginning
(and Old Son Gohan has a corny voiceover, too). Some items are also
identified incorrectly: The Dragon Radar is called a “Bleeper,” the Hoipoi
Capsules are called “Dyno-caps,” and the Nyoi-Bo is referred to as the
"Power Pole."
Music:
Well, the opening/ending theme (it’s the same tune for both) is catchy,
and reminds me a little of Dragon Ball Densetsu (the ending theme to
DB Movie 3: Mystical Adventure). The score itself is decent enough,
and serves its purpose, but it’s not as good as the original score by
Shunsuke Kikuchi. One good thing that can be said about it, though, is
that it knows the value of silence.
THE FUNIMATION DUB (2001)
Episode Title: The Secret of the Dragon Balls
Censorship:
-Goku is nude when he goes “tail-fishing,” but the scene is slightly
shortened and there are “action lines” drawn over his genitals when he
kicks the fish, similar to the censored Viz release for DB vol. 1. (less
than 5 seconds removed)
-The scene where Bulma shoots Goku is cut. For the transition, this
version uses the shot of Goku after he’s been shot, as he prepares to
attack the car again. (about 10 seconds)
-When Goku raises the back of Bulma’s dress, it’s slightly shortened,
though her underwear isn’t digitally-painted. (a few frames)
-The short exchange where Goku angers Bulma by unintentionally
insulting her is cut. (about 5 seconds)
-The scenes where Mai explains the Dragon Balls to Pilaf, and where
Bulma tells Goku about the world, are shorter in this version of the dub.
I don’t believe it’s censorship, though, as the other version obviously
had some inserted animation (like from movie 1).
-The scene where Bulma lifts her dress and offers to let Goku feel her
up (including his reaction) is cut, as it was with the other dub. (about
10 seconds or so)
Voices:
Stephanie Nadolny’s Goku is about on par with Saffron Henderson, I’d
say. Her Goku was much better than her DBZ dub season 3/4 Gohan.
Tiffany Vollmer isn’t quite as good as Lailana ...whatever-the-hell-her-
name-was, at Bulma’s voice. Pilaf, Shao, and Mai all have decent VAs.
And I really like this narrator. He’s much better than the DBZ ones.
Dialogue:
It’s pretty much accurate, though there’s some extraneous dialogue
here and there. It’s mostly solid. The narrator’s dialogue seems to be
closer to the original, and eliminates the odd “power of light” (Old FUNi
term for “Ki”?) reference. Also, the corny voice-over of old Son Gohan
(from the 1995 dub) isn’t there, which I consider a good thing. I don’t
think it was in the original Japanese version.
The dialogue is similar to the previous dub in some respects (probably
because one or two of the writers also worked on the older dub). The
narrator’s stuff after the opening commentary is nearly identical to
the older dub, as is some of the stuff said by Bulma and Goku. Some
incorrect item terms are brought over as well, such as Bulma calling
Hoipoi Capsules “Dyno-caps,” and Goku calling his Nyoi-Bo the “Power
Pole.” The Dragon Radar, on the other hand, is correctly identified.
Music:
Well, it’s the original stuff, and it’s really good. Shunsuke Kikuchi’s
score fits much better than the Berring dub score from six years ago.
The opening (an English version of Makafushigi Adventure) is cut from
Toonami. Not that I didn’t expect it, but I really like both versions of
the song. The Toonami opening seems kinda... generic, to me. I don’t
know why. And the ending theme (which was pretty good in both
Japanese and English) is shortened even further from “TV-Size” for
the Cartoon Network broadcast. Now we have a new DB theme length:
Toonami-size. And it sucks.
AND THE WINNER IS...
I’m going to have to say that I liked the new dub slightly better than the
old one. It just seems like they’re trying to keep it a little more intact,
with the original music, and as little censorship as Cartoon Network will
allow. That’s what won it for me. It also seems like the way some cuts
were done indicated that they dubbed it uncut first... which would make
it seem as though they’re ready to release those episodes uncut as
soon as they get the commercial-release rights back from KidMark.
So... I’ll be doing this again tomorrow, so we’ll see what Tuesday brings
for one of my favorite scenes: the “No Balls” gag. My guess is that
they’ll cut it like they did with the older dub, but who knows? We might
get lucky.
--The Super Saiya-jin Jedi.
Chris Sobieniak
(The Super Saiya-jin Jedi) wrote:
>(Warning: this post is very long.)
Don't worry, I won't wait up.
>That's right... now that I've seen the new version
>of the dub on Cartoon Network, I've put together a
>detailed comparison of the 1995 and 2001 edited
>versions of this episode. I've discovered a few
>surprising things, although other things were just
>as I thought. So... let's begin, shall we?
OK, shoot!
>THE OCEAN GROUP/KIDMARK DUB (1995)
>Episode Title: Secret of the Dragon Ball
>Censorship:
>-Goku is given digitally-painted briefs during his
>naked fishing expedition. The upside of it is that
>the scene isn't cut, but it just looks plain ridiculous.
This was the first time FUNimation began to use it's digital paintbox to
fix around this scene. Much of the pic looks so broken up it kinda
humors me how they even did it.
>-The scene where Bulma shoots Goku is cut. The
>two versions use two different shots of Goku,
>though (this one uses footage of him just before
>the cut). (about 10 seconds)
>-When Goku raises the back of Bulma's dress (to
>check to see if she has a tail), her panties are
>digitally painted to cover more.
Oddly, wasn't her panties white? Seem like another thing FUNi did was
to turn them pink to make them look more like something else.
>-When Mai explains the Dragon Balls to Pilaf, and
>when Bulma talks about the outside world to
>Goku, extra footage is thrown in. I'm not sure why,
>exactly, but I think it has to do with gaining time
>lost by the cuts.
Pretty much so.
>-The scene where Bulma lifts her dress and offers
>to let Goku feel her up (including his reaction) is
>cut. However, this version retains a little more of
>the animation just before the cut than the new dub
>does.
No comments here.
Voices:
>Saffron Henderson's Goku just doesn't sound right
>to me... I don't know if it's the way she voices him,
>or the fact that I've gotten used to Stephanie
>Nadolny, but I don't even think Ms. Henderson's
>Gohan sounded like this.
Ms. Henderson was both Goku (in the original DB dub) and Gohan (in the
first 53 dubbed episodes of DBZ, plus the three movies).
>Dialogue:
>I'd say that this version is just about as accurate
>as the other. Some lines are closer to the
>Japanese in this version, and some lines are closer
>in the other. And some are just way off. Still, it's
>interesting to see how the same lines can be
>interpreted differently by different people (though I
>think the writers may have been the same for both
>versions).
I always enjoyed some of those lines that seem to have been carried over
to the new dub myself, such as the "Don't be such a downer kid, I wanted
a Happy Meal!" That was cute!
>The announcer is given some kinda corny stuff at
>the very beginning (and Old Son Gohan has a
>corny voiceover, too). Some items are also
>identified incorrectly: The Dragon Radar is called a
>"Bleeper," the Hoipoi Capsules are called
>"Dyno-caps," and the Nyoi-Bo is referred to as the
>"Power Pole."
Makes you wonder how even though "Bleeper" was a good word to discribe
the dragon radar? I'm OK with the others (though Dyno-caps just doesn't
cut it much at all, could've at least called them capsules and forget
about it).
>Music:
>Well, the opening/ending theme (it's the same tune
>for both) is catchy, and reminds me a little of
>Dragon Ball Densetsu (the ending theme to DB
>Movie 3: Mystical Adventure).
Have to go back and listen to DB Densetsu and see for myself (don't have
a copy of the older dub around to compare though). ^_^
>The score itself is
>decent enough, and serves its purpose, but it's not
>as good as the original score by Shunsuke Kikuchi.
>One good thing that can be said about it, though,
>is that it knows the value of silence.
There was a lot of silent parts in this version, and I thought the guy
that did the music for it did at least a good job on the score. A bit
whimsical but nothing like what would be used for the beginning of DBZ.
>THE FUNIMATION DUB (2001)
>Episode Title: The Secret of the Dragon Balls
A little better over the previous title, though I'd prefer "Bloomers and
the Monkey King" myself.
>Censorship:
>-Goku is nude when he goes "tail-fishing," but the
>scene is slightly shortened and there are "action
>lines" drawn over his genitals when he kicks the
>fish, similar to the censored Viz release for DB vol.
>1. (less than 5 seconds removed)
I thought they did a OK job on that part. At least they didn't try to
throw on some digi-underwear this time around, though they also cut the
scene a bit shorter when Goku walks over the the side of the ledge to
pee when a fish splashes by (the older dub re-touches this to show him
just standing there).
>-The scene where Bulma shoots Goku is cut. For
>the transition, this version uses the shot of Goku
>after he's been shot, as he prepares to attack the
>car again. (about 10 seconds)
Wouldn't seem to terrible to lose this, at least we know how powerful
Goku is in essence.
>-When Goku raises the back of Bulma's dress, it's
>slightly shortened, though her underwear isn't
>digitally-painted. (a few frames)
Funny they didn't just keep it at the same number of frames like the
original (not that anyone would've noticed).
>-The scenes where Mai explains the Dragon Balls
>to Pilaf, and where Bulma tells Goku about the
>world, are shorter in this version of the dub. I don't
>believe it's censorship, though, as the other
>version obviously had some inserted animation
>(like from movie 1).
Actually it's like that in the original (having a Nippon Golden Network
sub of this episode on tape myself).
>-The scene where Bulma lifts her dress and offers
>to let Goku feel her up (including his reaction) is
>cut, as it was with the other dub. (about 10
>seconds or so)
Would've kept this in there myself.
>Voices:
>Stephanie Nadolny's Goku is about on par with
>Saffron Henderson, I'd say. Her Goku was much
>better than her DBZ dub season 3/4 Gohan.
I thought she did a better job too, at least she now has some
experiences since her days doing Gohan a few years back.
>Tiffany Vollmer isn't quite as good as Lailana
>...whatever-the-hell-her- name-was, at Bulma's
>voice.
I think her name is Lailana Lindjberg (though I could be wrong myself).
I though Vollmer's Bulma was great, she nailed the sort of naive spoiled
brat that Bulma was in Dragon Ball (over the good-nutured Bulma that
Lailana did originally).
>Pilaf, Shao, and Mai all have decent VAs.
I thought so too, Shuu sounded a more like his original character
(though it's hard to tell by only one line in this episode), and I hope
FUNi doesn't try to make him more like a dog than a fox he's supposed to
be.
>And I really like this narrator. He's much better
>than the DBZ ones.
I enjoy him too, too bad they didn't use him for DBZ either.
>Dialogue:
>It's pretty much accurate, though there's some
>extraneous dialogue here and there. It's mostly
>solid. The narrator's dialogue seems to be closer to
>the original, and eliminates the odd "power of
>light" (Old FUNi term for "Ki"?) reference.
Kinda like how they also kept the line used in the original dub when
Bulma shows up that goes "Goku is about to undergo a radical new phase,
totally radical!" Another one of those moments I enjoy as well.
>Also, the corny voice-over of old Son Gohan (from
>the 1995 dub) isn't there, which I consider a good
>thing. I don't think it was in the original Japanese
>version.
It wasn't.
>The dialogue is similar to the previous dub in some
>respects (probably because one or two of the
>writers also worked on the older dub). The
>narrator's stuff after the opening commentary is
>nearly identical to the older dub, as is some of the
>stuff said by Bulma and Goku.
Always enjoyed the "little crisis" Bulma has by the end of this episode.
>Some incorrect item terms are brought over as
>well, such as Bulma calling Hoipoi Capsules
>"Dyno-caps," and Goku calling his Nyoi-Bo the
>"Power Pole." The Dragon Radar, on the other
>hand, is correctly identified.
At least they got one thing right.
>Music:
>Well, it's the original stuff, and it's really good.
>Shunsuke Kikuchi's score fits much better than the
>Berring dub score from six years ago. The opening
>(an English version of Makafushigi Adventure) is
>cut from Toonami. Not that I didn't expect it, but I
>really like both versions of the song.
Me too, I expected Toonami to do that anyway.
>The Toonami opening seems kinda... generic, to
>me. I don't know why.
Probably because it's a bunch of random clips thrown together for no
reason. Found it a little odd to see the one from the tournament
episodes showing two monks talking about their love of fighting.
>And the ending theme (which was pretty good in
>both Japanese and English) is shortened even
>further from "TV-Size" for the Cartoon Network
>broadcast. Now we have a new DB theme length:
>Toonami-size. And it sucks.
I know what you mean, I was actually singing along before I realized
they began cutting the song somewhat to fit with a shorter version of
Romantic Ageru Yo closing.
>AND THE WINNER IS...
>I'm going to have to say that I liked the new dub
>slightly better than the old one. It just seems like
>they're trying to keep it a little more intact, with the
>original music, and as little censorship as Cartoon
>Network will allow. That's what won it for me. It
>also seems like the way some cuts were done
>indicated that they dubbed it uncut first... which
>would make it seem as though they're ready to
>release those episodes uncut as soon as they get
>the commercial-release rights back from KidMark.
Personally, I made this decision right after I bought my first VHS tape
of the epsiodes #14-16 last June. I knew right then FUNi was doing
something right for once. I can't wait for them to release these first
13 on VHS/DVD in the future.
>So... I'll be doing this again tomorrow, so we'll see
>what Tuesday brings for one of my favorite scenes:
>the "No Balls" gag. My guess is that they'll cut it
>like they did with the older dub, but who knows?
>We might get lucky.
>--The Super Saiya-jin Jedi.
Personaly, I'm not holding my breathe as much. Would be interesting if
they did cut it somewhat to having then go to bed, then Goku wakes out
of a dream thinking that the balls were missing at that point (would've
seem easier to do than to show him on top of Bulma's package and pulling
her panties off).
For later episodes, here's my favs I want to see what'll happen to
them...
Eps. 3
- Pretty much Kamesennin's perversion over Bulma's body in order for her
to get his dragon ball, then her surprise to see her panties were left
back at the capsule home.
Eps. 4
- Goku getting his block knocked by an axe.
- The beginnings of Goku's "Pat-Pats."
- Oolong's surpise at Goku's urinating at a tree.
There's lots more out there, just don't want to spoil it too much for
most newbies here.
Domo Arigatoo to Sayonara!
From the Master of Car-too-nal Knowledge...
Christopher M. Sobieniak
--"Fightin' the Frizzies since 1978"--
Kuririn321
you can't hear the tone of my voice or see my facial expression on the screen
so it seemed sarcastic I drank coffee because I started my summer project late
and I have to work really hard and I get sleepy really easily good job I agree
with many things you said and don't point out that I'm using my awake time to
post here instead of working I look forward to tomorrow.
The Super Saiya-jin Jedi
...O_o...
...That was the longest run-on sentence I've seen by a non-newbie.
NOTE TO SELF: Don't type anything while over-tired and on a coffee
buzz.
--The Super Saiya-jin Jedi.
Edson
> Voices:
> Saffron Henderson's Goku just doesn't sound right to me... I don't know
> if it's the way she voices him, or the fact that I've gotten used to
> Stephanie Nadolny, but I don't even think Ms. Henderson's Gohan
> sounded like this. This version of Bulma is a little better than
> Stephanie Nadolny's.
Lalaina Lindbjerg.
There are also several variations that she goes by...
Lalania Lindbjerg, Lalainia Lindbjerg, Lelania Lindbjerg, Lalainia Lindbjerg.
> The dialogue is similar to the previous dub in some respects (probably
> because one or two of the writers also worked on the older dub). The
> narrator's stuff after the opening commentary is nearly identical to
> the older dub, as is some of the stuff said by Bulma and Goku. Some
> incorrect item terms are brought over as well, such as Bulma calling
> Hoipoi Capsules "Dyno-caps," and Goku calling his Nyoi-Bo the "Power
> Pole." The Dragon Radar, on the other hand, is correctly identified.
I kind of liked "Bleeper" better...
>
> AND THE WINNER IS...
FUNimation's pocket book.
> So... I'll be doing this again tomorrow, so we'll see what Tuesday brings
> for one of my favorite scenes: the "No Balls" gag. My guess is that
> they'll cut it like they did with the older dub, but who knows? We might
> get lucky.
Your positive attitude was not rewarded...
Edo-son
Fourth Horseman of AFD/AHSM
Loyal cabana boy to Pan Chan Neko
(take off _Ranma's-bra_ to send me hate mail)
"What were you expecting; shoulder-length fingerless gloves and
canary yellow hot pants?"
Personal quote
http://digidomain.sexonfly.com/evolution1.jpg
"This just means I won't be starting that La Blue Girl mod after all."
Remisser - BFP team
"Damn! How much *ss-whooping can one ten-year-old girl take?"
Edson (while watching Sakura fight Yue)