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ISA Experience
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GIBG
Jan 8, 2011, 6:12:46 PM1/8/11
to
Are you still discussing the ISA Experience? I'd like to learn more
about it because the information I've gleaned from my data mining is
all over the map and the bottom line is that the woman I love more
deeply than anyone ever before is involved with this organization.
She generously paid $800.00 to have me attend an upcoming event, but
with all the mixed reviews, I opted out and now I'm concerned for her
well being. She's smart as a whip and fiercely independent, so I
would not presume to tell her that it's a bad idea. I just want to
know that she will be safe and that techniques common to certain group
self-help organizations (ie. est) are not being employed. I love her
dearly and only want what's in her best interest. I know it's her
choice and I respect that. I just can't help being concerned for her
well-being. Her past experience fits the profile for some less than
ethical programs and I pray this is not one of them.
about it because the information I've gleaned from my data mining is
all over the map and the bottom line is that the woman I love more
deeply than anyone ever before is involved with this organization.
She generously paid $800.00 to have me attend an upcoming event, but
with all the mixed reviews, I opted out and now I'm concerned for her
well being. She's smart as a whip and fiercely independent, so I
would not presume to tell her that it's a bad idea. I just want to
know that she will be safe and that techniques common to certain group
self-help organizations (ie. est) are not being employed. I love her
dearly and only want what's in her best interest. I know it's her
choice and I respect that. I just can't help being concerned for her
well-being. Her past experience fits the profile for some less than
ethical programs and I pray this is not one of them.
John Hatpin
Jan 8, 2011, 7:16:45 PM1/8/11
to
GIBG wrote:
Having been somewhat involved in that organisation myself, it's my
belief that she's safe, but her money and her time isn't. While they
do use mild brain-washing techniques, the Experience itself, and the
grander, more expensive and time-consuming activities that they will
doubtless encourage her to partake of at a later date, are not
particularly harmful themselves. In fact, they can be great fun, and
not everything ISA teaches is bullshit[1].
I also feel that the vast majority of people at the Experiences, no
matter how committed they are right now, will sooner or later become
disillusioned and leave. In other words, they're good with the rod and
line, but not so adept with the keep net.
[1] Although you can learn the same kind of stuff more quickly and
easily - and for free - on the web, and much more.
--
John Hatpin
landotter
Jan 8, 2011, 7:47:57 PM1/8/11
to
It's a nasty therapy cult. My neighbor three doors down is fairly high
up in the cult and has recruitment often. She's also an Ayn Randian.
Not ethical, not good--a cult through and through.
Greg Goss
Jan 8, 2011, 8:17:16 PM1/8/11
to
GIBG <genenor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Are you still discussing the ISA Experience? I'd like to learn more
>about it because the information I've gleaned
So far as I can remember, it was limited to a 20 MHz clock rate. I
haven't had any experience with it for almost twenty years.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Hactar
Jan 8, 2011, 9:17:16 PM1/8/11
to
In article <8osgl0...@mid.individual.net>,
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> GIBG <genenor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Are you still discussing the ISA Experience? I'd like to learn more
> >about it because the information I've gleaned
>
> So far as I can remember, it was limited to a 20 MHz clock rate. I
> haven't had any experience with it for almost twenty years.
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> GIBG <genenor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Are you still discussing the ISA Experience? I'd like to learn more
> >about it because the information I've gleaned
>
> So far as I can remember, it was limited to a 20 MHz clock rate. I
> haven't had any experience with it for almost twenty years.
I ran across some cards, TRS-80 things, and manuals and disks for things I
never had. (Nice binders, though.) Nobody bit on Freecycle so they're
getting eBayed unless someone here wants them.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool;
and he who dares not is a slave. -Sir William Drummond
john42h...@gmail.com
Jul 2, 2013, 7:22:31 PM7/2/13
to
Hi GIBG,
I know that this reply is a long time after your original email, but for other people who are concerned about friends in the isa experience, I thought I'd share some insights, from having done the experience itself, the GIT and having assisted on the experience for over a year.
If you've been invited to attend the isa experience, then the person inviting you may well be assisting. No one gets paid for assisting, however it includes agreements to:
- Invite 10 people per week to go on the experience
- Talk to your isa buddy every day
- Talk to a group leader who monitors your other agreements every day
- Do a giving or giving up agreement each day
- Help out on the isa experience itself (putting chairs in order, cleaning, etc.)
- Attend a weekly meeting
- Give up alcohol (and in the case of the GIT, smoking) for 1-3 weeks before the experience / GIT
On the isa experience itself, exercises range from:
- Listening to the facilitator (normally Luis) drone on about how acceptance leads to you being the source of your life and other concepts that seem good at the time, but don't quite make sense afterwards.
- Inviting people you are uncomfortable with out to lunch and explaining why you're not comfortable with them.
- Mental alarm clock exercises so you wake up in the morning feeling great and leap out of bed (several people wake up repeatedly throughout the night, sometimes indeed leaping out of bed and turn up the next day severely sleep deprived - this is an exercise you do Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday night).
- On Saturday late afternoon you are told to share 'What I don't want you to know about me' with your buddy and then with 3 other people.
- This process is repeated and takes a large amount of time on Sunday, but where each person stands in front of the whole group and shares 'What I don't want you to know about me'.
While this may feel cathartic, I know several people who felt very traumatised after sharing and reliving very painful memories with so many other people. At one point I was doing follow-up calls to ask if people wanted to review. One man I spoke to said he didn't want to review and didn't want to talk about it and became tearful when I phoned. When I told one of the organisers what had happened she just said 'we'll cross him off the list' (i.e. we won't get anyone else to see if he wants to review) and didn't seem the least bit concerned about his well-being.
I know that this reply is a long time after your original email, but for other people who are concerned about friends in the isa experience, I thought I'd share some insights, from having done the experience itself, the GIT and having assisted on the experience for over a year.
If you've been invited to attend the isa experience, then the person inviting you may well be assisting. No one gets paid for assisting, however it includes agreements to:
- Invite 10 people per week to go on the experience
- Talk to your isa buddy every day
- Talk to a group leader who monitors your other agreements every day
- Do a giving or giving up agreement each day
- Help out on the isa experience itself (putting chairs in order, cleaning, etc.)
- Attend a weekly meeting
- Give up alcohol (and in the case of the GIT, smoking) for 1-3 weeks before the experience / GIT
On the isa experience itself, exercises range from:
- Listening to the facilitator (normally Luis) drone on about how acceptance leads to you being the source of your life and other concepts that seem good at the time, but don't quite make sense afterwards.
- Inviting people you are uncomfortable with out to lunch and explaining why you're not comfortable with them.
- Mental alarm clock exercises so you wake up in the morning feeling great and leap out of bed (several people wake up repeatedly throughout the night, sometimes indeed leaping out of bed and turn up the next day severely sleep deprived - this is an exercise you do Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday night).
- On Saturday late afternoon you are told to share 'What I don't want you to know about me' with your buddy and then with 3 other people.
- This process is repeated and takes a large amount of time on Sunday, but where each person stands in front of the whole group and shares 'What I don't want you to know about me'.
While this may feel cathartic, I know several people who felt very traumatised after sharing and reliving very painful memories with so many other people. At one point I was doing follow-up calls to ask if people wanted to review. One man I spoke to said he didn't want to review and didn't want to talk about it and became tearful when I phoned. When I told one of the organisers what had happened she just said 'we'll cross him off the list' (i.e. we won't get anyone else to see if he wants to review) and didn't seem the least bit concerned about his well-being.
john42h...@gmail.com
Jul 2, 2013, 7:34:24 PM7/2/13
to
Having known some people who have done isa for a long time I would question their success. One thing that helped me wake up and stop assisting was when someone asked what was so special about my life? I found that I really couldn't answer. I didn't have a better relationship, job, home, etc. than anyone else and when I truly looked at how I felt, that wasn't better either (I'm feeling loads better now I've stopped).
Isa assistants talk a lot (I mean a lot!) about 'working on yourself' and for GIT assisting keep a one page A4 journal every day where you have to write 'The barriers I pushed through today were...' 'The barriers I didn't push through today were...' etc.
There's a phrase in isa which is 'You can't do what you don't know if you keep doing what you do know'. The hilarious but tragic thing is that isa is identical every time and some of the isa assistants have been doing it every 8 weeks for over a decade. How many times do you have to do it, before it becomes very easy and very much 'doing what you do know'.
In the UK every time the same people stand up - Dave Clarkson, Maggie Clarkson, Jill Stanford ... They say the same thing every Sunday 'I don't want you to know that I'm a thief, I stole from Ole...', 'I don't want you to know that I had an affair ...' If they really don't want you to know it, why do they say it every single Sunday?
The jokes are the same, the order of events is the same, the message is the same...
Isa relies on breaking down people's self-esteem and program (the defensive mechanism we have grown up with) and then offering a new (but unoriginal) way of thinking to replace it, where everything to do with isa is 'working on yourself' and 'accepting'. Unfortunately from that place it can be very hard to feel the same level of empathy with people outside of isa.
Isa also uses a different language, e.g. defining 'responsibility' as 'the ability to respond'. This change of language again means that when people heavily involved in isa talk to their family or friends, it often seems that you're talking about 2 different things, which can make isa graduates feel lonely, yet somehow superior (I know I felt superior for years, even though my life sucked).
The good news is the effects don't seem to be permanent and most people stop assisting eventually and get a life!
Isa assistants talk a lot (I mean a lot!) about 'working on yourself' and for GIT assisting keep a one page A4 journal every day where you have to write 'The barriers I pushed through today were...' 'The barriers I didn't push through today were...' etc.
There's a phrase in isa which is 'You can't do what you don't know if you keep doing what you do know'. The hilarious but tragic thing is that isa is identical every time and some of the isa assistants have been doing it every 8 weeks for over a decade. How many times do you have to do it, before it becomes very easy and very much 'doing what you do know'.
In the UK every time the same people stand up - Dave Clarkson, Maggie Clarkson, Jill Stanford ... They say the same thing every Sunday 'I don't want you to know that I'm a thief, I stole from Ole...', 'I don't want you to know that I had an affair ...' If they really don't want you to know it, why do they say it every single Sunday?
The jokes are the same, the order of events is the same, the message is the same...
Isa relies on breaking down people's self-esteem and program (the defensive mechanism we have grown up with) and then offering a new (but unoriginal) way of thinking to replace it, where everything to do with isa is 'working on yourself' and 'accepting'. Unfortunately from that place it can be very hard to feel the same level of empathy with people outside of isa.
Isa also uses a different language, e.g. defining 'responsibility' as 'the ability to respond'. This change of language again means that when people heavily involved in isa talk to their family or friends, it often seems that you're talking about 2 different things, which can make isa graduates feel lonely, yet somehow superior (I know I felt superior for years, even though my life sucked).
The good news is the effects don't seem to be permanent and most people stop assisting eventually and get a life!
Stanley Daniel de Liver
Jul 8, 2013, 7:34:21 AM7/8/13
to
On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 00:34:24 +0100, <john42h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Having known some people who have done isa for a long time I would
> question their success. One thing that helped me wake up and stop
Aren't we on SATA now? But do try Enhanced isa if your hardware is that
> Having known some people who have done isa for a long time I would
> question their success. One thing that helped me wake up and stop
vintage. HTH
--
It's a money /life balance.
Greg Goss
Jul 8, 2013, 10:29:58 AM7/8/13
to
for his system. I went VL instead. Much simpler, though much less
sophisticated.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Message has been deleted
Pastime
Oct 29, 2013, 9:18:01 AM10/29/13
to
ken...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I know this thread is very old, but I wanted so say a few words in the hope that it might stop someone going through what I went through. I did the experience a few years ago after getting talked into it by a work colleague (the assistants will continue to pester you if you don't respond with a definitive no). After a recent family berievment and splitting up with my girlfriend, i wasn't in a good place, and thought this could help me...it didn't! It has taken me a long time to feel that I can even talk about the ISA Experience as participants are not allowed to talk about the practices which happen over the weekend. I will tell you a few of them now. Hypnosis techniques: Standing nose touching nose and staring into the eyes of another participant; Time disorientation: Removal of watches, phones, no natural light, irratic break times; Sleep deprivation: creating sleep anxiety by trying to get you to wake up before your alarm clock; Language distortion etc. These techniques are
> designed to 'de-program' you...It is simply brainwashing. Therepy is a slow and gentle process. This is not therapy. I came away from the weekend and promptly had a nervous breakdown. I had lost my sence of self, empathy, humour. I didn't have a sense of euphoria as some people have, i felt lost in the universe, and I could'nt just snap out of it. ISA uses powerful cult mind control techniques, If you know someone involved with this group, they need to completely cut themselves off from anybody involved with it. In my opinion the ISA Experience is a dangerous cult and if people tell you otherwise, they are probably under its influence.
That, and you have to buy your own lunch.
--
John
> I know this thread is very old, but I wanted so say a few words in the hope that it might stop someone going through what I went through. I did the experience a few years ago after getting talked into it by a work colleague (the assistants will continue to pester you if you don't respond with a definitive no). After a recent family berievment and splitting up with my girlfriend, i wasn't in a good place, and thought this could help me...it didn't! It has taken me a long time to feel that I can even talk about the ISA Experience as participants are not allowed to talk about the practices which happen over the weekend. I will tell you a few of them now. Hypnosis techniques: Standing nose touching nose and staring into the eyes of another participant; Time disorientation: Removal of watches, phones, no natural light, irratic break times; Sleep deprivation: creating sleep anxiety by trying to get you to wake up before your alarm clock; Language distortion etc. These techniques are
> designed to 'de-program' you...It is simply brainwashing. Therepy is a slow and gentle process. This is not therapy. I came away from the weekend and promptly had a nervous breakdown. I had lost my sence of self, empathy, humour. I didn't have a sense of euphoria as some people have, i felt lost in the universe, and I could'nt just snap out of it. ISA uses powerful cult mind control techniques, If you know someone involved with this group, they need to completely cut themselves off from anybody involved with it. In my opinion the ISA Experience is a dangerous cult and if people tell you otherwise, they are probably under its influence.
That, and you have to buy your own lunch.
--
John
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
eshj...@gmail.com
Feb 7, 2014, 8:34:57 AM2/7/14
to
landfi...@gmail.com
Jul 21, 2017, 12:06:39 PM7/21/17
to
Any ideology outside your box works for people in Isa. Isa is as shallow as a lie. Ole Larsen is a self serving asshole. To him you are a cypher, a digit....
Lesmond
Jul 21, 2017, 1:20:03 PM7/21/17
to
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:06:38 -0700 (PDT), landfi...@gmail.com wrote:
>Any ideology outside your box works for people in Isa. Isa is as shallow as a lie. Ole Larsen is a self serving asshole. To him you are a cypher, a digit....
Thank you for your kind advice.
>Any ideology outside your box works for people in Isa. Isa is as shallow as a lie. Ole Larsen is a self serving asshole. To him you are a cypher, a digit....
--
She may contain the urge to run away
But hold her down with soggy clothes and breeze blocks
johnrog...@gmail.com
Oct 7, 2017, 11:10:36 AM10/7/17
to
pov
Feb 5, 2018, 4:27:36 PM2/5/18
to
I am curious what is "est"?
John Mc.
Feb 6, 2018, 7:15:00 AM2/6/18
to
Questor
Feb 7, 2018, 3:10:03 AM2/7/18
to
On Mon, 5 Feb 2018 13:27:35 -0800 (PST), pov <anthonym...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I am curious what is "est"?
Present third person singular for "to be" in Latin.
>I am curious what is "est"?
Snidely
Feb 7, 2018, 4:53:15 AM2/7/18
to
On Wednesday, Questor pointed out that ...
Third person plural in Carmel?
/dps
--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain
/dps
--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain
salesm...@gmail.com
Apr 6, 2018, 11:50:32 AM4/6/18
to
I STUMBLED ONTO THESE THREADS while trying to find the correct URL for ISA and the schedule for a friend who has interest in attending.
What you should know is there are alot of scared little dumbass sheeple who although theyve never set foot at an ISA Event have gone online and spread all kinda bullshit ie cult etc LOL. FUNNY. iSA is one of the best and most significant events that supported me in beginning better in everything ive attempted. The past LEAVES CLUES. Unfortunately the 100.000 people who got EXTREMELY POSITIVE BENEFIT AND VALUE ARE TOO BUSY AND SUCCESSFUL NOW IN THEIR LIFE TO HAVE TIME TO COME FIND THE NEGATIVE ABOUT ISA AND CORRECT THE RECORDS.
As for all the negative in these threads from people who did attend an event BAD COMPLETED IN TO THE END. Well.....opinions are like you know what and everybody has one. As for me.....GO. It was powerfully good for me and my life.
What you should know is there are alot of scared little dumbass sheeple who although theyve never set foot at an ISA Event have gone online and spread all kinda bullshit ie cult etc LOL. FUNNY. iSA is one of the best and most significant events that supported me in beginning better in everything ive attempted. The past LEAVES CLUES. Unfortunately the 100.000 people who got EXTREMELY POSITIVE BENEFIT AND VALUE ARE TOO BUSY AND SUCCESSFUL NOW IN THEIR LIFE TO HAVE TIME TO COME FIND THE NEGATIVE ABOUT ISA AND CORRECT THE RECORDS.
As for all the negative in these threads from people who did attend an event BAD COMPLETED IN TO THE END. Well.....opinions are like you know what and everybody has one. As for me.....GO. It was powerfully good for me and my life.
Lesmond
Apr 6, 2018, 11:00:05 PM4/6/18
to
--
Do not spray into eyes
I have sprayed you into my eyes
hwpi...@gmail.com
Apr 16, 2018, 3:51:29 PM4/16/18
to
I did isa in 1980 and feel like it was very helpful. Ole led it with assistance (not "help") from 2-3 other high-ups, including Luis. The Experience, graduate training, and other events were very positive for me. I need another weekend like it to refocus myself on doing things a better way. I did do it again with my teenage son. It was different and not as deeply experiencing. My suggestion is try isa or the Avatar Course.
Greg Goss
Apr 18, 2018, 10:25:30 PM4/18/18
to
up until about 1993 or so.
Howard
Apr 19, 2018, 11:08:15 AM4/19/18
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deuan...@googlemail.com
Feb 5, 2019, 11:45:35 AM2/5/19
to
deuan...@googlemail.com
Feb 5, 2019, 12:01:34 PM2/5/19
to
On Monday, 5 February 2018 21:27:36 UTC, pov wrote:
> I am curious what is "est"?
Earhart Seminar Training
> I am curious what is "est"?
now Landmark Education - not a million miles from ISA. Either a sinister cult manipulating people for nefarious purposes or an arena where you can work on your life and your own personal growth to amazing effect. Depending on your own personal point of view of course.
I think EST started in the 1970s in California (where else!) They now have centres worldwide (ISA has no office and relies on people committed to it remaining in existence. Landmark has paid seminar leaders and staff, ISA, no one is paid who runs it.
Landmark has a big office in London running seminars virtually every night of the week and every weekend. People flying in from all over Europe and the world to do them. They get blown away and go back to their respective countries and come back with friends, family and co-workers so they can unleash themselves on life! (or they can have they are in a cult experience I guess!)
bell.m...@gmail.com
Jul 10, 2019, 6:21:16 AM7/10/19
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On Friday, 21 July 2017 18:06:39 UTC+2, landfi...@gmail.com wrote:
> Any ideology outside your box works for people in Isa. Isa is as shallow as a lie. Ole Larsen is a self serving asshole. To him you are a cypher, a digit....
probably your money allows him to buy sex from nubile thai girls, they are all xxxxing creepy. I have a friend who is enthralled with them...she spent time, money, neglected her children. These people are poison and their "youth camps" are sheer child abuse.
> Any ideology outside your box works for people in Isa. Isa is as shallow as a lie. Ole Larsen is a self serving asshole. To him you are a cypher, a digit....
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