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Sister Margaret McEntee, formally known as Sister James (Dedication at end of Doubt)
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Gus
Feb 6, 2014, 11:02:51 AM2/6/14
to
Why the name change? I read the religious order gave her the name
Sister James. I assume McEntee was her birth name? Something to do
with Vatcan Ii? It takes places just after... Seemed odd the nuns
had names of men.
D.F. Manno
Feb 6, 2014, 3:53:11 PM2/6/14
to
In article <b4c7f9htmj10fnfp3...@4ax.com>,
In some orders the names were assigned to the nuns. Some orders later
changed the rule. In 1988, the Sisters of the Immaculate Heart of Mary
voted to allow its members to return to their baptismal names.
In many cases, where the nun had the option to choose, she chose the
name of a saint - male or female - who inspired her or to whom she had a
particular devotion.
In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all the
nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded the order
or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a Marian order,
so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary Veronica, etc.) In
some cases the common name is male - there are/were a lot of Sisters
Mary Joseph, for example.
--
D.F. Manno | dfm...@mail.com
GOP delenda est!
changed the rule. In 1988, the Sisters of the Immaculate Heart of Mary
voted to allow its members to return to their baptismal names.
In many cases, where the nun had the option to choose, she chose the
name of a saint - male or female - who inspired her or to whom she had a
particular devotion.
In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all the
nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded the order
or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a Marian order,
so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary Veronica, etc.) In
some cases the common name is male - there are/were a lot of Sisters
Mary Joseph, for example.
--
D.F. Manno | dfm...@mail.com
GOP delenda est!
Howard Hal
Feb 6, 2014, 4:11:47 PM2/6/14
to
"D.F. Manno" <dfm...@mail.com> wrote in news:dfmanno-
> In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all the
> nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded the order
> or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a Marian order,
> so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary Veronica, etc.) In
> some cases the common name is male - there are/were a lot of Sisters
> Mary Joseph, for example.
Any anecdotes supporting or refuting whether the old stereotype of nun
schoolteachers being ruler-swinging sadists was true or not? I realize
Sister Mary Ignatius Explains it All For You isn't a documentary, but then
The Magdalene Sisters does have a basis in fact, but that's also not in
America, so I dunno how valid the old stories are, or whether there was a
greater tendency toward cruelty than schoolteachers in general.
> In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all the
> nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded the order
> or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a Marian order,
> so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary Veronica, etc.) In
> some cases the common name is male - there are/were a lot of Sisters
> Mary Joseph, for example.
schoolteachers being ruler-swinging sadists was true or not? I realize
Sister Mary Ignatius Explains it All For You isn't a documentary, but then
The Magdalene Sisters does have a basis in fact, but that's also not in
America, so I dunno how valid the old stories are, or whether there was a
greater tendency toward cruelty than schoolteachers in general.
Gus
Feb 6, 2014, 4:23:18 PM2/6/14
to
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 15:53:11 -0500, "D.F. Manno" <dfm...@mail.com>
wrote:
I vaguely remember lot of Marys. Sister Mary Catherine was only young
one where I went. She was kind of cute. All the others were very
old. One was clearly senile, but they had her substitute teach at
times.
I think I'm going to watch the movie again. Some people on imdb had
insightful comments. I like to go there and read about all the things
I missed, read posts with different viewpoints, then rewatch. Helpful
when it's a complex movie.
I missed the symbolism of the open windows and what John xxxIII said.
I'd like to hear the sermon again. First time I have ever said that
about a sermon!
I thought it was obvious whether the priest Flynn was guilty of
anything. But suprising number of people focus on Aloysius and said
that she was a tempest out of control, without evidence.
It's hard to believe before VII, people sat there every week listening
to Latin. Back then, was the only thing in vernacular the sermon?
wrote:
one where I went. She was kind of cute. All the others were very
old. One was clearly senile, but they had her substitute teach at
times.
I think I'm going to watch the movie again. Some people on imdb had
insightful comments. I like to go there and read about all the things
I missed, read posts with different viewpoints, then rewatch. Helpful
when it's a complex movie.
I missed the symbolism of the open windows and what John xxxIII said.
I'd like to hear the sermon again. First time I have ever said that
about a sermon!
I thought it was obvious whether the priest Flynn was guilty of
anything. But suprising number of people focus on Aloysius and said
that she was a tempest out of control, without evidence.
It's hard to believe before VII, people sat there every week listening
to Latin. Back then, was the only thing in vernacular the sermon?
Gus
Feb 6, 2014, 4:34:12 PM2/6/14
to
don't remember them using it. Maybe once or twice? The head penguin
was a wizzled old nun. Everyone feared her. Being sent to her office
felt like being given the death sentence.
Worse teacher was lay teacher Mrs Daniels. She thumped me on the head
with this big ring she wore. I think she concussed me. She later
apologized, after she realized it was the kids in front of me that
were actually the miscreants and left me hanging. That damn ring
hurt; she used it on many kids.
D.F. Manno
Feb 6, 2014, 7:14:04 PM2/6/14
to
In article <XnsA2CCA586D2769ho...@94.75.214.39>,
Howard Hal <howar...@notmail.com> wrote:
I don't know if they were sadists (no one knows what goes on behind
closed convent doors), but they were certainly authoritarian in their
discipline.
And I wish they used rulers.
One day I was having difficulty with a math problem on the blackboard,
which was unusual for me. The nun slapped me on the back of the head
with enough force to bounce my head off - and crack - the blackboard.
Another time, I was being disciplined for an infraction the nature of
which I do not recall after all these years. The nun had me drop trou
and hit me on the butt repeatedly with a wooden dustbrush. The wooden
part was 12-16 inches long and an inch or so thick.
My parents told the nuns - in my presence - that the nuns had carte
blanche when it came to discipline, including corporal punishment. They
also told me that whatever punishment the nun gave me in school they
would duplicate when I got home.
As a result I was terrified into behaving, so I didn't experience many
horror stories. I witnessed quite a few, though.
The nuns were angry, miserably unhappy people - rarely seen to smile or
laugh non-sardonically - and they took it out on their students. My
seventh-grade nun - the school principal - snapped one day and decided
to punish the class by keeping us after school, without telling anybody.
(I went to a small school with double-grade classrooms. In effect,
one-quarter of the school's students didn't come home from school -
simply vanished.) It wasn't until after 5 pm - more than two hours after
the school day ended - that we were released, and then only because the
parish priest ordered the nun to let us go home. Worried parents tracked
down the priest to get him to investigate.
It wasn't just the nuns who got physical with students. Once in high
school I was making my way down the crowded hallway to get to my next
class when I bumped into one of the brothers (the religious order, not
the other kind). He must have thought I did it deliberately, because he
whirled around, grabbed me and slammed me into a bank of lockers.
This same brother would end fights in the cafeteria by telling the two
combatants to see him in the gym after school. He would then hand them
boxing gloves and tell them to settle their differences like men. I
think he got off on watching.
I never saw or heard of any sexual abuse in grade school. But in high
school we had one brother named Smith who never came back from winter
break one year, amid rumors that he had gotten a little too friendly
with some students. (I attended an all-boys high school.) There was a
cadre of boys who hung around him who became known as "Smitty's boys."
This was not a welcome moniker. It was pretty much the equivalent of
calling them faggots.
Howard Hal <howar...@notmail.com> wrote:
closed convent doors), but they were certainly authoritarian in their
discipline.
And I wish they used rulers.
One day I was having difficulty with a math problem on the blackboard,
which was unusual for me. The nun slapped me on the back of the head
with enough force to bounce my head off - and crack - the blackboard.
Another time, I was being disciplined for an infraction the nature of
which I do not recall after all these years. The nun had me drop trou
and hit me on the butt repeatedly with a wooden dustbrush. The wooden
part was 12-16 inches long and an inch or so thick.
My parents told the nuns - in my presence - that the nuns had carte
blanche when it came to discipline, including corporal punishment. They
also told me that whatever punishment the nun gave me in school they
would duplicate when I got home.
As a result I was terrified into behaving, so I didn't experience many
horror stories. I witnessed quite a few, though.
The nuns were angry, miserably unhappy people - rarely seen to smile or
laugh non-sardonically - and they took it out on their students. My
seventh-grade nun - the school principal - snapped one day and decided
to punish the class by keeping us after school, without telling anybody.
(I went to a small school with double-grade classrooms. In effect,
one-quarter of the school's students didn't come home from school -
simply vanished.) It wasn't until after 5 pm - more than two hours after
the school day ended - that we were released, and then only because the
parish priest ordered the nun to let us go home. Worried parents tracked
down the priest to get him to investigate.
It wasn't just the nuns who got physical with students. Once in high
school I was making my way down the crowded hallway to get to my next
class when I bumped into one of the brothers (the religious order, not
the other kind). He must have thought I did it deliberately, because he
whirled around, grabbed me and slammed me into a bank of lockers.
This same brother would end fights in the cafeteria by telling the two
combatants to see him in the gym after school. He would then hand them
boxing gloves and tell them to settle their differences like men. I
think he got off on watching.
I never saw or heard of any sexual abuse in grade school. But in high
school we had one brother named Smith who never came back from winter
break one year, amid rumors that he had gotten a little too friendly
with some students. (I attended an all-boys high school.) There was a
cadre of boys who hung around him who became known as "Smitty's boys."
This was not a welcome moniker. It was pretty much the equivalent of
calling them faggots.
Rick B.
Feb 6, 2014, 7:41:12 PM2/6/14
to
Gus <gus.o...@gmail.com> wrote in news:b4c7f9htmj10fnfp3en0t0k4i5ovhesi4h@
4ax.com:
>
> Why the name change?
Because everybody knows that you don't play no games on Sister James.
(Maybe not everybody, as this only got to #53):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4I5YLG0szc
4ax.com:
>
> Why the name change?
Because everybody knows that you don't play no games on Sister James.
(Maybe not everybody, as this only got to #53):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4I5YLG0szc
Gus
Feb 6, 2014, 8:36:32 PM2/6/14
to
Gus
Feb 6, 2014, 8:38:28 PM2/6/14
to
Howard Hal
Feb 6, 2014, 9:19:33 PM2/6/14
to
> Howard Hal <howar...@notmail.com> wrote:
>
>> D.F. Manno <dfm...@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all
>> > the nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded
>> > the order or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a
>> > Marian order, so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary
>> > Veronica, etc.) In some cases the common name is male - there
>> > are/were a lot of Sisters Mary Joseph, for example.
>>
>> Any anecdotes supporting or refuting whether the old stereotype of
>> nun schoolteachers being ruler-swinging sadists was true or not? I
>> realize Sister Mary Ignatius Explains it All For You isn't a
>> documentary, but then The Magdalene Sisters does have a basis in
>> fact, but that's also not in America, so I dunno how valid the old
>> stories are, or whether there was a greater tendency toward cruelty
>> than schoolteachers in general.
>
> I don't know if they were sadists (no one knows what goes on behind
> closed convent doors), but they were certainly authoritarian in their
> discipline.
>
> And I wish they used rulers.
Wow. That's stunning. I hope I didn't cause any pain by bringing this
>
>> D.F. Manno <dfm...@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all
>> > the nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded
>> > the order or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a
>> > Marian order, so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary
>> > Veronica, etc.) In some cases the common name is male - there
>> > are/were a lot of Sisters Mary Joseph, for example.
>>
>> Any anecdotes supporting or refuting whether the old stereotype of
>> nun schoolteachers being ruler-swinging sadists was true or not? I
>> realize Sister Mary Ignatius Explains it All For You isn't a
>> documentary, but then The Magdalene Sisters does have a basis in
>> fact, but that's also not in America, so I dunno how valid the old
>> stories are, or whether there was a greater tendency toward cruelty
>> than schoolteachers in general.
>
> I don't know if they were sadists (no one knows what goes on behind
> closed convent doors), but they were certainly authoritarian in their
> discipline.
>
> And I wish they used rulers.
up.
I guess that helps bring the whole abuse scandals into a different
perspective -- taking advantage of kids in a sexual way clearly wasn't
the only abuse going on, and the Church probably has a whole other level
of things it needs to atone for as well.
I'm amazed that there are so many school systems in the US that still
allow corporal punishment -- it seems like something that's so open to
causing problems for kids and whoever administers it, but I guess some
places just don't see how that could be true.
Xho Jingleheimerschmidt
Feb 6, 2014, 10:43:42 PM2/6/14
to
On 02/06/14 13:23, Gus wrote:
>
> It's hard to believe before VII, people sat there every week listening
> to Latin. Back then, was the only thing in vernacular the sermon?
The gossip.
>
> It's hard to believe before VII, people sat there every week listening
> to Latin. Back then, was the only thing in vernacular the sermon?
Xho
S. Checker
Feb 7, 2014, 9:18:32 AM2/7/14
to
D.F. Manno <dfm...@mail.com> wrote:
> In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all the
> nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded the order
> or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a Marian order,
> so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary Veronica, etc.) In
> some cases the common name is male - there are/were a lot of Sisters
> Mary Joseph, for example.
And we shouldn't forget Sister Mary Elephant.
> In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all the
> nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded the order
> or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a Marian order,
> so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary Veronica, etc.) In
> some cases the common name is male - there are/were a lot of Sisters
> Mary Joseph, for example.
--
When one wants to get rid of an unsupportable pressure, one needs
hashish.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
Tim Wright
Feb 7, 2014, 10:33:38 AM2/7/14
to
On 2/7/2014 8:18 AM, S. Checker wrote:
> D.F. Manno <dfm...@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all the
>> nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded the order
>> or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a Marian order,
>> so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary Veronica, etc.) In
>> some cases the common name is male - there are/were a lot of Sisters
>> Mary Joseph, for example.
>
> And we shouldn't forget Sister Mary Elephant.
>
Filling in for Sister Rosetta Stone?
> D.F. Manno <dfm...@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all the
>> nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded the order
>> or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a Marian order,
>> so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary Veronica, etc.) In
>> some cases the common name is male - there are/were a lot of Sisters
>> Mary Joseph, for example.
>
> And we shouldn't forget Sister Mary Elephant.
>
--
If you ever see me drinking a Bud Lite Lime, I have been kidnapped and
am trying to signal you.
Tim W
Gus
Feb 7, 2014, 12:46:36 PM2/7/14
to
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 09:33:38 -0600, Tim Wright <tlwri...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On 2/7/2014 8:18 AM, S. Checker wrote:
>> D.F. Manno <dfm...@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all the
>>> nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded the order
>>> or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a Marian order,
>>> so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary Veronica, etc.) In
>>> some cases the common name is male - there are/were a lot of Sisters
>>> Mary Joseph, for example.
>>
>> And we shouldn't forget Sister Mary Elephant.
>>
>Filling in for Sister Rosetta Stone?
I never understood the line: Sister Golden Hair surprise.
wrote:
>On 2/7/2014 8:18 AM, S. Checker wrote:
>> D.F. Manno <dfm...@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In some orders, like the one that taught at my grade school, all the
>>> nuns had double names, one of which was the saint who founded the order
>>> or whom the order was devoted to. (In my school it was a Marian order,
>>> so the nuns were Mary Frances, Marie Assunta, Mary Veronica, etc.) In
>>> some cases the common name is male - there are/were a lot of Sisters
>>> Mary Joseph, for example.
>>
>> And we shouldn't forget Sister Mary Elephant.
>>
>Filling in for Sister Rosetta Stone?
Alfalfa Bill
Feb 7, 2014, 1:42:31 PM2/7/14
to
D.F. Manno
Feb 9, 2014, 10:47:18 PM2/9/14
to
In article <XnsA2CCD9B26A463ho...@94.75.214.39>,
compared to the physical/sexual/psychological abuse I endured at the
hands of my parents). I broke with the RCC as soon as I could, starting
in high school when I used my paper route as an excuse for not going to
Sunday mass.
At the time and in that place - a working-class, predominantly Catholic
neighborhood in the '60s - no one thought this was out of the ordinary.
Even today, some people who went through this tell these stories as if
they're jokes. Sometimes I want to scream "Are you crazy? These were
adults beating up on 6- and 7-year-olds, and you think it's funny?" My
sister, who remains a devout Catholic, refuses to this day to call it
abuse.
> > Howard Hal <howar...@notmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Any anecdotes supporting or refuting whether the old stereotype of
> >> nun schoolteachers being ruler-swinging sadists was true or not? I
> >> realize Sister Mary Ignatius Explains it All For You isn't a
> >> documentary, but then The Magdalene Sisters does have a basis in
> >> fact, but that's also not in America, so I dunno how valid the old
> >> stories are, or whether there was a greater tendency toward cruelty
> >> than schoolteachers in general.
> >
> > I don't know if they were sadists (no one knows what goes on behind
> > closed convent doors), but they were certainly authoritarian in their
> > discipline.
> >
> > And I wish they used rulers.
>
> Wow. That's stunning. I hope I didn't cause any pain by bringing this
> up.
No, I've pretty much come to terms with it (and it wasn't that bad
> >
> >> Any anecdotes supporting or refuting whether the old stereotype of
> >> nun schoolteachers being ruler-swinging sadists was true or not? I
> >> realize Sister Mary Ignatius Explains it All For You isn't a
> >> documentary, but then The Magdalene Sisters does have a basis in
> >> fact, but that's also not in America, so I dunno how valid the old
> >> stories are, or whether there was a greater tendency toward cruelty
> >> than schoolteachers in general.
> >
> > I don't know if they were sadists (no one knows what goes on behind
> > closed convent doors), but they were certainly authoritarian in their
> > discipline.
> >
> > And I wish they used rulers.
>
> Wow. That's stunning. I hope I didn't cause any pain by bringing this
> up.
compared to the physical/sexual/psychological abuse I endured at the
hands of my parents). I broke with the RCC as soon as I could, starting
in high school when I used my paper route as an excuse for not going to
Sunday mass.
At the time and in that place - a working-class, predominantly Catholic
neighborhood in the '60s - no one thought this was out of the ordinary.
Even today, some people who went through this tell these stories as if
they're jokes. Sometimes I want to scream "Are you crazy? These were
adults beating up on 6- and 7-year-olds, and you think it's funny?" My
sister, who remains a devout Catholic, refuses to this day to call it
abuse.
Howard Hal
Feb 10, 2014, 5:02:24 PM2/10/14
to
"D.F. Manno" <dfm...@mail.com> wrote
> At the time and in that place - a working-class, predominantly Catholic
> neighborhood in the '60s - no one thought this was out of the ordinary.
> Even today, some people who went through this tell these stories as if
> they're jokes. Sometimes I want to scream "Are you crazy? These were
> adults beating up on 6- and 7-year-olds, and you think it's funny?" My
> sister, who remains a devout Catholic, refuses to this day to call it
> abuse.
I don't know any older Catholics who seem to want to talk about these
things, but younger ones never seem to have any nostalgia for the churches
they had to attend, and I can get a bit of a clearer picture now for why
there's such a deep seated unhappiness with the status quo.
> At the time and in that place - a working-class, predominantly Catholic
> neighborhood in the '60s - no one thought this was out of the ordinary.
> Even today, some people who went through this tell these stories as if
> they're jokes. Sometimes I want to scream "Are you crazy? These were
> adults beating up on 6- and 7-year-olds, and you think it's funny?" My
> sister, who remains a devout Catholic, refuses to this day to call it
> abuse.
things, but younger ones never seem to have any nostalgia for the churches
they had to attend, and I can get a bit of a clearer picture now for why
there's such a deep seated unhappiness with the status quo.
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