The grand parade of lifeless packaging
Tim Bradshaw
UK. I won't tell you where because it might encourage more people to
go there, and you'll see why this is a bad idea in a minute.
Not for the first time I was struck by something that seems to be
occurring throughout the UK, and I expect the rest of the world: the
country is gradually sinking under a tide of discarded plastic bottles,
mostly water bottles. Every time I went out I came back carrying
several empty bottles, and this after having thrown several other
bottles away in bins during the course of the day. And I was not
picking up more than a tiny fraction of the bottles I saw.
I don't understand what is going on here. Or, perhaps I do understand
what is going on, but I'd rather not think about what it implies.
So, bottled water: why? This is the UK, not the third world, and we
have very good mains water, and have had for a long time. Why,
exactly, do people feel compelled to buy bottled water at a vast
premium over mains water? Perhaps it's because our bodies are, after
all, temples, and it won't do to pollute them with traces of chlorine
and the other tiny contaminants that get into mains water. Of course,
no one is worrying about whatever awfulness leaches into the water from
the plastic bottle.
(Of course, it's very common to need water when there is no mains water
handy. The solution to this is a water bottle, which you fill, and
refill, with mains water, and which you take home with you. That's not
what I'm talking about here.)
Well, if our bodies are temples and we have to drink special expensive
water to avoid corrupting our precious bodily fluids, then we certainly
don't think the environment is worth much. That special magic water
has been shipped, probably in lorries, from wherever its source was. A
lot of it comes hundreds or thousands of miles, frequently from France.
Better not think too hard about what that's doing to global warming.
And what about the bottles? Lots of lovely plastic, which, apart from
the toxins leaching out of it into the water (oops, better not mention
those), is yet more stuff that is costing energy to produce, and that
we might be able to recycle, except we probably can't because it's got
paper labels and caps made of some other incompatible plastic, and
recycling it isn't worth the energy costs anyway.
If, that is, we had a chance of recycling them. Which we don't,
because the people who drink this vile stuff just throw the bottles
away wherever they happen to be at the moment, leaving them to
accumulate in vast wind-blown drifts, rendering a beautiful landscape
ugly, getting slowly ground down by wind and waves until they're in
small enough bits that they get into the food supply and start killing
the wildlife whose habitats they haven't already strangled.
It's this that bothers me most. The arguments about why bottled water
is a bad idea are a little bit too subtle to be easily understood, and
we're continually being battered by advertising from the bottled water
companies who want us to believe that it's *not* a bad idea, and that,
in fact, it somehow will make us all lithe and sexy. So it's hardly
surprising that people believe the lies and drink the stuff.
But there can be no possible excuse for just dropping the empty
bottles. There's no advertising saying this is a reasonable thing to
do. No political party is suggesting it's OK. The truth is that the
people who do this just don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.
They're the sort of people who park their 4x4s in the disabled spaces
at supermarkets, the people I catch letting their dogs crap in the
alley beside my house. In fact, they're not even smart enough to
realise that their behaviour is destroying the place they've paid good
money to come and visit (because you can bet that none of them are
locals).
When I am made king of the world (and I expect the appointment any day
now), I will set these people to cleaning up the filth they leave.
When they die, I will have their heads impaled on stakes with signs
warning others not to do as they did, and I will place these stakes in
every town and village in the world (you can be sure there are enough
of them). Their bodies will be ground down and used as food for
wildlife. This I regard as far too lenient a punishment.
Ulo Melton
[slobs discarding water bottles]
>In fact, they're not even smart enough to
>realise that their behaviour is destroying the place they've paid good
>money to come and visit (because you can bet that none of them are
>locals).
Are you sure of that? A lot of people have no compunction about shitting
in their own backyards.
--
Ulo Melton
http://www.sewergator.com - Your Pipeline To Adventure
"Show me a man who is not afraid of being eaten by an alligator
in a sewer, and I'll show you a fool." -Roger Ebert
Greg Goss
>Recently, I visited an attractive and relatively unspoiled part of the
>UK. I won't tell you where because it might encourage more people to
>go there, and you'll see why this is a bad idea in a minute.
>
>Not for the first time I was struck by something that seems to be
>occurring throughout the UK, and I expect the rest of the world: the
>country is gradually sinking under a tide of discarded plastic bottles,
>mostly water bottles. Every time I went out I came back carrying
>several empty bottles, and this after having thrown several other
>bottles away in bins during the course of the day. And I was not
>picking up more than a tiny fraction of the bottles I saw.
Does the UK use bottle deposit laws? In my jurisdiction (BC and
Alberta in Canada), you get at least a nickel ($.05) for each
container under a litre and a quarter for any bottle a litre or
bigger. Except for dairy products.
A nickel isn't a lot of money, but it can add up pretty quickly.
This deposit applies even to containers like tetrapack bricks, where
there is nothing useful that the drink company can do with them.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Boron Elgar
>Recently, I visited an attractive and relatively unspoiled part of the
>UK. I won't tell you where because it might encourage more people to
>go there, and you'll see why this is a bad idea in a minute.
>
snip littering story...
>When I am made king of the world (and I expect the appointment any day
>now), I will set these people to cleaning up the filth they leave.
>When they die, I will have their heads impaled on stakes with signs
>warning others not to do as they did, and I will place these stakes in
>every town and village in the world (you can be sure there are enough
>of them). Their bodies will be ground down and used as food for
>wildlife. This I regard as far too lenient a punishment.
Try taking a gander at the all the trash around when you climb
Mt.Fuji.
Boron
John Dean
> Tim Bradshaw <t...@tfeb.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Not for the first time I was struck by something that seems to be
>> occurring throughout the UK, and I expect the rest of the world: the
>> country is gradually sinking under a tide of discarded plastic
>> bottles, mostly water bottles.
>
Nope
--
John Dean
Oxford
Mary
> Recently, I visited an attractive and relatively unspoiled part of the
> UK. I won't tell you where because it might encourage more people to go
> there, and you'll see why this is a bad idea in a minute.
(snip)
> So, bottled water: why? This is the UK, not the third world, and we
> have very good mains water, and have had for a long time. Why, exactly,
> do people feel compelled to buy bottled water at a vast premium over
> mains water? Perhaps it's because our bodies are, after all, temples,
> and it won't do to pollute them with traces of chlorine and the other
> tiny contaminants that get into mains water. Of course, no one is
> worrying about whatever awfulness leaches into the water from the
> plastic bottle.
Should be minimal, unless the UK hasn't got the same standards for
food-contact plastics that the US has. It should certainly not be more
than what you'd get from city water (mains water, as you called it).
> Well, if our bodies are temples and we have to drink special expensive
> water to avoid corrupting our precious bodily fluids, then we certainly
> don't think the environment is worth much. That special magic water has
> been shipped, probably in lorries, from wherever its source was. A lot
> of it comes hundreds or thousands of miles, frequently from France.
> Better not think too hard about what that's doing to global warming.
Yes, that is worrisome.
> And what about the bottles? Lots of lovely plastic, which, apart from
> the toxins leaching out of it into the water (oops, better not mention
> those), is yet more stuff that is costing energy to produce, and that we
> might be able to recycle, except we probably can't because it's got
> paper labels and caps made of some other incompatible plastic, and
> recycling it isn't worth the energy costs anyway.
And so's that.
> If, that is, we had a chance of recycling them. Which we don't, because
> the people who drink this vile stuff just throw the bottles away
> wherever they happen to be at the moment, leaving them to accumulate in
> vast wind-blown drifts, rendering a beautiful landscape ugly, getting
> slowly ground down by wind and waves until they're in small enough bits
> that they get into the food supply and start killing the wildlife whose
> habitats they haven't already strangled.
Well, the water's not vile just because it's environmentally not a good
idea. I buy bottled water because it tastes better than the city water
around here. Of course, I do recycle the bottles and wouldn't think of
throwing them around the landscape, which I don't understand at all.
> It's this that bothers me most. The arguments about why bottled water
> is a bad idea are a little bit too subtle to be easily understood, and
> we're continually being battered by advertising from the bottled water
> companies who want us to believe that it's *not* a bad idea, and that,
> in fact, it somehow will make us all lithe and sexy. So it's hardly
> surprising that people believe the lies and drink the stuff.
Or they think the city water tastes bad, which is frequently true.
> But there can be no possible excuse for just dropping the empty
> bottles. There's no advertising saying this is a reasonable thing to
> do. No political party is suggesting it's OK. The truth is that the
> people who do this just don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.
Probably true.
> They're the sort of people who park their 4x4s in the disabled spaces at
> supermarkets, the people I catch letting their dogs crap in the alley
> beside my house. In fact, they're not even smart enough to realise that
> their behaviour is destroying the place they've paid good money to come
> and visit (because you can bet that none of them are locals).
I'm not sure that's a good assumption, though.
> When I am made king of the world (and I expect the appointment any day
> now), I will set these people to cleaning up the filth they leave. When
> they die, I will have their heads impaled on stakes with signs warning
> others not to do as they did, and I will place these stakes in every
> town and village in the world (you can be sure there are enough of
> them). Their bodies will be ground down and used as food for wildlife.
> This I regard as far too lenient a punishment.
>
Not much of a beautification scheme there. Rotting heads all over the
place aren't going to be any more attractive than plastic bottles, and
the health hazards are fairly significant.
Mary
Charles Bishop
<t...@tfeb.org> wrote:
>Recently, I visited an attractive and relatively unspoiled part of the
>UK. I won't tell you where because it might encourage more people to
>go there, and you'll see why this is a bad idea in a minute.
>
>Not for the first time I was struck by something that seems to be
>occurring throughout the UK, and I expect the rest of the world: the
>country is gradually sinking under a tide of discarded plastic bottles,
>mostly water bottles. Every time I went out I came back carrying
>several empty bottles, and this after having thrown several other
>bottles away in bins during the course of the day. And I was not
>picking up more than a tiny fraction of the bottles I saw.
>
>I don't understand what is going on here. Or, perhaps I do understand
>what is going on, but I'd rather not think about what it implies.
>
>So, bottled water: why? [snip rest of wonderful rant]
I'm with you, in spirit if not in location.
We'll apply for grants and I'll walk, well travel, with you from John
O'Groats to whereever the other end of the land is (Land's End???)
publicising this fact. We will have REFILLABLE water bottles which we'll
use as a denouncement of the wastage of plastic and energy necessary to
get bottled water into the hands of people who wouldn't know a gorgeous
environment it it bit them on the bum.
Try to get us a license to shoot people we see while on our trek that
throw plastic bottles from vehicles or otherwise leave them behind. I know
gun laws are rather strict there so perhaps we'll have to be satisfied
with garroting them.
Please respond as your earlies convenience. I hope this finds you well and
calmer than before,
--
Yr obnt svnt
ctb
Charles Bishop
We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax. We are also expected to
recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get the
money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material. For
aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is actually
easily recyclable.
charles, almost everything is a scam, bishop
SoCalMike
> We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
> from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax. We are also expected to
> recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get the
> money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material. For
> aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is actually
> easily recyclable.
i save up my cans, and twice a year drop em off. yields about $14 each
time... easy money.
Bob Ward
Bishop) wrote:
>
>We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
>from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax. We are also expected to
>recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get the
>money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material. For
>aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is actually
>easily recyclable.
>
They don't have the parking lot recycle centers where you live?
The only think that deters me from recycling my bottles is that it
ends up costing me more in time than the cash returned, so I donate
them to the girl who helps my wife with the cleaning.
Magnus, Robot Fighter.
>
>Well, if our bodies are temples and we have to drink special expensive
>water to avoid corrupting our precious bodily fluids, then we certainly
>don't think the environment is worth much. That special magic water
>has been shipped, probably in lorries, from wherever its source was. A
>lot of it comes hundreds or thousands of miles, frequently from France.
> Better not think too hard about what that's doing to global warming.
>
Have you ever seen a commie drink water? They don't. They drink vodka.
You know why?
Bill Turlock
Lots of street people in Oakland who are involved in recycling,
via grocery carts, etc. I used to just drop a bag of cans off on
a street corner, and they're gone in ½ hour. Now, though Moira's
school is recycling for cash so I drop em off at Gramma's for
her.
Bill
Hank Gillette
<ctbishop-191...@dialup-4.246.69.44.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net>
,
ctbi...@earthlink.netttt (Charles Bishop) wrote:
> We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
> from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax. We are also expected to
> recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get the
> money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material. For
> aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is actually
> easily recyclable.
>
When I lived in California, there was a reverse vending machine for
aluminum cans outside of the second nearest grocery store.
The nice thing was even if someone threw a can out the window of their
car because a nickel didn't mean that much to them, it wouldn't stay on
the side of the road very long because someone who a nickel did mean
something to would pick it up.
--
Hank Gillette
We don't care what gender you are or what gender you like to hold hands with.
So long as you like to hold hands, you are welcome in the Democratic Party.
-- Joe Andrew (paraphrased)
Bill Bonde ('Anyone for tennis, wouldn't that be nice?')
Tim Bradshaw wrote:
>
It's the last great adventure left to mankind, screams a drooping lady
Offering her dreamdolls at less than extortionate prices,
And as the notes and coins are taken out, I'm taken in, to the factory
floor.
This song really doesn't get enough airplay.
> Recently, I visited an attractive and relatively unspoiled part of the
> UK. I won't tell you where because it might encourage more people to
> go there, and you'll see why this is a bad idea in a minute.
>
> Not for the first time I was struck by something that seems to be
> occurring throughout the UK, and I expect the rest of the world: the
> country is gradually sinking under a tide of discarded plastic bottles,
> mostly water bottles. Every time I went out I came back carrying
> several empty bottles, and this after having thrown several other
> bottles away in bins during the course of the day. And I was not
> picking up more than a tiny fraction of the bottles I saw.
>
> I don't understand what is going on here. Or, perhaps I do understand
> what is going on, but I'd rather not think about what it implies.
>
Even if most people aren't pigs, enough of them are pigs to make it not
much matter what the rest of the folks do. Pristine mountain lake,
little piles of human faeces dotted each with its own bit of waving
white toilet paper, a sign of surrender of us all to the sick void of
they don't give a damn. I used to ask why someone would hike in all day
to a place unspoiled only to dump their debris all over the place. I
can't count the times I've carried out all I could.
> So, bottled water: why? This is the UK, not the third world, and we
> have very good mains water, and have had for a long time. Why,
> exactly, do people feel compelled to buy bottled water at a vast
> premium over mains water? Perhaps it's because our bodies are, after
> all, temples, and it won't do to pollute them with traces of chlorine
> and the other tiny contaminants that get into mains water. Of course,
> no one is worrying about whatever awfulness leaches into the water from
> the plastic bottle.
>
> (Of course, it's very common to need water when there is no mains water
> handy. The solution to this is a water bottle, which you fill, and
> refill, with mains water, and which you take home with you. That's not
> what I'm talking about here.)
>
Make sure you wash it often since those bottles are known to have more
bacteria on them than you'd imagine. Computer keyboards are grosser than
toilet seats too. I learned all this from the "internet".
> Well, if our bodies are temples and we have to drink special expensive
> water to avoid corrupting our precious bodily fluids, then we certainly
> don't think the environment is worth much. That special magic water
> has been shipped, probably in lorries, from wherever its source was. A
> lot of it comes hundreds or thousands of miles, frequently from France.
>
Isn't "France" "benzene" spelt backwards? I mean when you aren't talking
wine when it's "urethane".
> But there can be no possible excuse for just dropping the empty
> bottles. There's no advertising saying this is a reasonable thing to
> do. No political party is suggesting it's OK. The truth is that the
> people who do this just don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.
>
I think they have a hole in their heads where their human empathy
should've been put.
> They're the sort of people who park their 4x4s in the disabled spaces
> at supermarkets, the people I catch letting their dogs crap in the
> alley beside my house.
>
OTOH, what do dogs do, they crap. I venture to bet the ammonium nitrate
someone put on his lawn is ultimately a worse offender than a dog's
lifted leg.
--
He and Evie soon fell into a conversation of the "No, I didn't; yes, you
did" type--conversation which, though fascinating to those who are
engaged in it, neither desires nor deserves the attention of others.
-+E.M. Forster, "Howards End"
Bill Bonde ('Anyone for tennis, wouldn't that be nice?')
Because "vodka" is the diminutive of 'water' and your Commie wants to
show how much he cares?
Veronique
When I lived in Ben Lomond, we used to save up the ones with the
California Redemption Value and take them to the recycling center at
the dump, for a couple of bucks. Now that time is more of a commodity
than money, I am happy to put my cans, bottles, paper, and plastic in
the recycle bins for the city to collect as part of the trash
collection (recycling on Mondays, garbage on Fridays.)
The nice thing I noticed about the bottle deposit when I lived in
Oregon was that it encouraged someone to pick up the bottle or can and
take it in, instead of it simply becoming part of the landscape if the
original owner wasn't conscientious.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Blinky the Shark
> We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
> from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax. We are also expected to
> recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get
> the money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material.
> For aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is
> actually easily recyclable.
I let them collect in a laundry hamper lined with a large transparent
trash bag, and when the bag is full I place it out front next to the
fire hydrant so someone who's been less fortunate than I can pick up a
few bucks. Been doing that for probably 15 years.
--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
Blinky the Shark
Have you been posting as mike, rather than SoCalMike, for a while?
Blinky the Shark
> In article
><ctbishop-191...@dialup-4.246.69.44.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net>
> ,
> ctbi...@earthlink.netttt (Charles Bishop) wrote:
>
>> We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
>> from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax. We are also expected to
>> recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get the
>> money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material. For
>> aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is actually
>> easily recyclable.
>>
> When I lived in California, there was a reverse vending machine for
> aluminum cans outside of the second nearest grocery store.
I can't speak for anything other than my own Los Angeles haunts, but I
haven't seen one of those machines for years.
Andrew Gore
Bishop) wrote:
>
>>This deposit applies even to containers like tetrapack bricks, where
>>there is nothing useful that the drink company can do with them.
>
>We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
>from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax. We are also expected to
>recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get the
>money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material. For
>aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is actually
>easily recyclable.
Yes, the deposits on cans and bottles here in Cali can range
from .05 to, I believe, .10. Tho, as a libertarian, I am normally
against such "fees" that are thinly disguised taxes, I am completely
in favor of such deposits. Why? It's one of the rare "taxes" that
actually works, that accomplishes what it sets out to do. It does
three important things.
- It greatly reduces the amount of discarded litter along the
roads, etc
- It returns a lot of plastic, glass and aluminum to be
recycled
- it provides a significant income for very poor (often
homeless) people.
I'm surprised the UK hasn't adopted it. What about the rest of
Europe?
Blinky the Shark
> Yes, the deposits on cans and bottles here in Cali can range
> from .05 to, I believe, .10. Tho, as a libertarian, I am normally
> against such "fees" that are thinly disguised taxes, I am completely
Do you really consider that a tax, and turning in your containers a tax
and therefore turning in your containers getting a tax refund?
Blinky the Shark
> Andrew Gore wrote:
>
>> Yes, the deposits on cans and bottles here in Cali can range
>> from .05 to, I believe, .10. Tho, as a libertarian, I am normally
>> against such "fees" that are thinly disguised taxes, I am completely
>
> Do you really consider that a tax, and turning in your containers a tax
> and therefore turning in your containers getting a tax refund?
Yow. But I think you get the gist of my question despite me. :)
bill van
Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> Blinky the Shark wrote:
> > Andrew Gore wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, the deposits on cans and bottles here in Cali can range
> >> from .05 to, I believe, .10. Tho, as a libertarian, I am normally
> >> against such "fees" that are thinly disguised taxes, I am completely
> >
> > Do you really consider that a tax, and turning in your containers a tax
> > and therefore turning in your containers getting a tax refund?
>
> Yow. But I think you get the gist of my question despite me. :)
Sure. And it's clearly not a tax, but a recycling fee. You get the money
back when you turn the bottle in, and it doesn't end up in a ditch
somewhere.
Or, as happens locally, if you're both lazy and charitable, you put your
bottles out in the lane in plastic bags once a week or so, and people
who need the money and are willing to go to some effort for it come and
pick them up and recycle them. Better all around than panhandling, I
think.
bill
Bob Ward
wrote:
>Hank Gillette wrote:
>> In article
>><ctbishop-191...@dialup-4.246.69.44.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net>
>> ,
>> ctbi...@earthlink.netttt (Charles Bishop) wrote:
>>
>>> We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
>>> from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax. We are also expected to
>>> recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get the
>>> money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material. For
>>> aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is actually
>>> easily recyclable.
>>>
>> When I lived in California, there was a reverse vending machine for
>> aluminum cans outside of the second nearest grocery store.
>
>I can't speak for anything other than my own Los Angeles haunts, but I
>haven't seen one of those machines for years.
I tried googling for a list of these recycle centers in Los Angeles -
found this sponsored Google ad:
Recycle
Recycle at Wal-Mart
Wide Selection, Always Low Prices.
www.walmart.com
Blinky the Shark
That's quite close to what I posted 37 minutes before you. ;)
"I let them collect in a laundry hamper lined with a large transparent
trash bag, and when the bag is full I place it out front next to the
fire hydrant so someone who's been less fortunate than I can pick up a
few bucks. Been doing that for probably 15 years."
And yes, it's still a good idea. :)
Tim Bradshaw
> Are you sure of that? A lot of people have no compunction about shitting
> in their own backyards.
I think in this case, yes I am fairly sure, but in general I agree,
unfortunately.
--tim
Tim Bradshaw
> It's the last great adventure left to mankind, screams a drooping lady
> Offering her dreamdolls at less than extortionate prices,
> And as the notes and coins are taken out, I'm taken in, to the factory
> floor.
>
> This song really doesn't get enough airplay.
Yeah, I was wondering about buying the record again (I had it in the
70s, but it went with many others in the Great Vinyl Purge of 1988 -
some of those early Hawkwind records in the fancy sleeves must have
been worth money even then, sigh). Almost everything they did makes me
just cringe now, but, I dunno, I can think of at least two or three
songs from that record I might still like.
> Even if most people aren't pigs, enough of them are pigs to make it not
> much matter what the rest of the folks do. Pristine mountain lake,
> little piles of human faeces dotted each with its own bit of waving
> white toilet paper, a sign of surrender of us all to the sick void of
> they don't give a damn. I used to ask why someone would hike in all day
> to a place unspoiled only to dump their debris all over the place. I
> can't count the times I've carried out all I could.
That's exactly how I feel.
> Make sure you wash it often since those bottles are known to have more
> bacteria on them than you'd imagine. Computer keyboards are grosser than
> toilet seats too. I learned all this from the "internet".
It helps you build up your immunity, I reckon. Which I'll need when I
start with the sticking-heads-on-pikes.
> OTOH, what do dogs do, they crap. I venture to bet the ammonium nitrate
> someone put on his lawn is ultimately a worse offender than a dog's
> lifted leg.
Yes, and that's fine, but please not right outside my back door where I
tread it into the house. But I've found the solution to this: tigers
are fairly cheap it turns out, and these dog owners are going to start
getting a little bit more than they bargained for when I open the back
door. Dunno how the cat will react.
--tim
Hank Gillette
Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> > When I lived in California, there was a reverse vending machine for
> > aluminum cans outside of the second nearest grocery store.
>
> I can't speak for anything other than my own Los Angeles haunts, but I
> haven't seen one of those machines for years.
>
Since it's been years since I left California, I haven't either.
Chris Greville
"Boron Elgar" <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:r8q1m255qtk8b6gnl...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:00:04 +0000, Tim Bradshaw <t...@tfeb.org> wrote:
>
>
> Try taking a gander at the all the trash around when you climb
> Mt.Fuji.
>
There certainly is at Pearl.
Tim Bradshaw
> Try to get us a license to shoot people we see while on our trek that
> throw plastic bottles from vehicles or otherwise leave them behind. I know
> gun laws are rather strict there so perhaps we'll have to be satisfied
> with garroting them.
The problem is that rifles are really dangerous in the UK. I think
even a 22 is lethal at half a mile or something, and it's so crowded
that there's a significant risk from stray bullets hitting randoms.
Shotguns don't have this problem, but are useless against larger
animals and, well, people at any range: you want something that will
kill them, not just make a huge mess of them.
Blinky the Shark
> The problem is that rifles are really dangerous in the UK. I think
> even a 22 is lethal at half a mile or something, and it's so crowded
> that there's a significant risk from stray bullets hitting randoms.
> Shotguns don't have this problem, but are useless against larger
> animals and, well, people at any range: you want something that will
> kill them, not just make a huge mess of them.
As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
Chris Greville
"Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnem2nqo....@thurston.blinkynet.net...
>
> As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
> in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
>
Glaswegians
Blinky the Shark
Why aren't those Glasgowians or soemthing else that makes sense?
--
Blinky the Californicator RLU 297263
bill van
I must have skimmed over your post without absorbing it. But I fully
agree. It's a good thing to stop bottles and similar containers from
ending up in the countryside or in a landfill, and it's a good thing to
channel a few bucks to people who need it.
bill
Chris Greville
"Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
> Chris Greville wrote:
>>
>> "Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:slrnem2nqo....@thurston.blinkynet.net...
>>>
>>> As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
>>> in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
>>
>> Glaswegians
>
> Why aren't those Glasgowians or soemthing else that makes sense?
>
It's as near as the Universal Translator can get.
Blinky the Shark
>
> "Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
> news:slrnem2ofp....@thurston.blinkynet.net...
>> Chris Greville wrote:
>>>
>>> "Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnem2nqo....@thurston.blinkynet.net...
>>>>
>>>> As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
>>>> in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
>>>
>>> Glaswegians
>>
>> Why aren't those Glasgowians or soemthing else that makes sense?
>
> It's as near as the Universal Translator can get.
I think it's time we deposed that one and elected a new one.
--
Blinky RLU 297263
Tim Bradshaw
> As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
> in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
Deer, which are semi-domesticated, I suppose, but tend to escape and
then run all over arable fields, or at least to where I was bought up.
That's where I learnt about the problems with rifles in fact - you
really want a rifle to deal with deer, but the home counties - even the
relatively remote bit of it where I grew up - is really too crowded for
rifles to be safe. I think shotguns are also not a great way of
dealing with things as small as foxes as well.
--tim
Blinky the Shark
> On 2006-11-20 07:55:29 +0000, Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid>
> said:
>
>> As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
>> in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
>
> Deer, which are semi-domesticated, I suppose, but tend to escape and
Well, poop. I should've thought of deer from watching the Robin Hood
stuff. Something about those being the *King's* animals, not the Merry
Men's. :)
> then run all over arable fields, or at least to where I was bought up.
> That's where I learnt about the problems with rifles in fact - you
> really want a rifle to deal with deer, but the home counties - even
> the relatively remote bit of it where I grew up - is really too
> crowded for rifles to be safe. I think shotguns are also not a great
> way of dealing with things as small as foxes as well.
Back in the USan upper midwest, where I was raised, shotguns with slugs
were the weapon of choice in the part of the state what was the most
populated (by humans) -- centerfire rifles were not permitted because of
their range; they were allowed only in the northern, less populated 2/3
of the state.
Chris Greville
"Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
> Chris Greville wrote:
>>
>> "Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:slrnem2ofp....@thurston.blinkynet.net...
>>> Chris Greville wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:slrnem2nqo....@thurston.blinkynet.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
>>>>> in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
>>>>
>>>> Glaswegians
>>>
>>> Why aren't those Glasgowians or soemthing else that makes sense?
>>
>> It's as near as the Universal Translator can get.
>
> I think it's time we deposed that one and elected a new one.
>
Some have made a valiant effort....
http://www.clyde-valley.com/glasgow/dialect.htm
http://www.itchyglasgow.co.uk/articles/147.html
Unfortunately for the rest of the Scots, the language is like a very
virulent disease as this article from 2002 points out.
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1423982002
Inevitably, Wiki has an article on the Glasgow Patter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Patter
Greg Goss
>>Does the UK use bottle deposit laws? In my jurisdiction (BC and
>>Alberta in Canada), you get at least a nickel ($.05) for each
>>container under a litre and a quarter for any bottle a litre or
>>bigger. Except for dairy products.
>>
>>A nickel isn't a lot of money, but it can add up pretty quickly.
>>
>>This deposit applies even to containers like tetrapack bricks, where
>>there is nothing useful that the drink company can do with them.
>
>We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
>from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax. We are also expected to
>recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get the
>money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material. For
>aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is actually
>easily recyclable.
Here (Alberta and BC) there are depots where you get the entire
deposit back, easily.
The depots accept all brands that are sold at the member stores. The
depot I went to in Vancouver had a list of stores. I don't know
whether that means that these stores are sponsoring the depot, or
whether the stores only buy from wholesalers who are supporting the
depot. If the store doesn't support the depot, then the store has to
make the refunds directly to the customer. Most stores have something
like a 24 bottle limit on refunds and only refund brands that their
store carries.
On beer, the Vancouver depot refunds slightly less than the deposit
amount. If you want to separate your beer cans and take them directly
to the liquor store, that's also easy to do. Or you can accept a buck
a case (12 cans in BC) instead of the $1.20 for the convenience of
taking all your containers to the same place. On everything but beer,
the depot gives a full refund of the deposit.
My bottles and cans usually pile up till i have about $10 worth. I
find that the depots are no big problem to get to and use, so long as
you have a vehicle.
My townhouse complex has a bin for refundable containers. I don't
know who gets the money from that - the collection agent, the complex
itself, or some relative of someone on the council personally.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Random832
Charles Bishop wrote:
> In article <4sc7mcF...@mid.individual.net>, go...@gossg.org wrote:
>
>>Tim Bradshaw <t...@tfeb.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Recently, I visited an attractive and relatively unspoiled part of the
>>>UK. I won't tell you where because it might encourage more people to
>>>go there, and you'll see why this is a bad idea in a minute.
>>>
>>>Not for the first time I was struck by something that seems to be
>>>occurring throughout the UK, and I expect the rest of the world: the
>>>country is gradually sinking under a tide of discarded plastic bottles,
>>>mostly water bottles. Every time I went out I came back carrying
>>>several empty bottles, and this after having thrown several other
>>>bottles away in bins during the course of the day. And I was not
>>>picking up more than a tiny fraction of the bottles I saw.
>>
>>Does the UK use bottle deposit laws? In my jurisdiction (BC and
>>Alberta in Canada), you get at least a nickel ($.05) for each
>>container under a litre and a quarter for any bottle a litre or
>>bigger. Except for dairy products.
>>
>>A nickel isn't a lot of money, but it can add up pretty quickly.
>>
>>This deposit applies even to containers like tetrapack bricks, where
>>there is nothing useful that the drink company can do with them.
>
> We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
> from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax.
How's it a tax? Is the price at the vending machine / store / etc
consistently higher in a way that correlates to the size of the
'deposit'? My impression was that the 5c or 10c is _not_ collected by
the state, but merely something that the manufacturer is required to
give to the customer on all bottles that are turned in [which means that
the cost of paying it back on a fraction of the bottles is spread out
across all bottles]. Is this not the case? I thought this dated back to
the days when glass bottles were reused, and was written into law to
prevent manufacturers from discontinuing that practice.
> We are also expected to
> recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get the
> money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material. For
> aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is actually
> easily recyclable.
>
>
> charles, almost everything is a scam, bishop
John Hatpin
Not often I say this, but: LOL!!!!1!!!1!
Oh, and we have wild deer and wild horses and a surprising variety of
feral Big Cats. And there are various schemes to reintroduce wild
boar, wolves and so on.
--
John Hatpin
Chris Greville
"John Hatpin" <use...@jfhgetridofthisbitopkin.kaandthisbittooroo.co.uk>
wrote in message news:ech3m2lhe3u19u8k0...@4ax.com...
> Chris Greville wrote:
>
>>"Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:slrnem2nqo....@thurston.blinkynet.net...
>>>
>>> As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
>>> in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
>>
>>Glaswegians
>
> Not often I say this, but: LOL!!!!1!!!1!
Youv'e tried asking for directions in Glasgow as well, have you?
Glenn Dowdy
"Tim Bradshaw" <t...@tfeb.org> wrote in message
news:ejrm9n$ba1$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
Some dog-owners own both corded and cordless electric drills. YMMV.
Glenn D.
Veronique
Plus a vast proliferation of foxes, if the stories about the dire
outcome of outlawing riding to the hounds is to be believed.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
xho...@gmail.com
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 19:18:27 -0800, ctbi...@earthlink.netttt (Charles
> Bishop) wrote:
>
> >
> >>This deposit applies even to containers like tetrapack bricks, where
> >>there is nothing useful that the drink company can do with them.
> >
> >We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
> >recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get
> >the money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material. For
> >aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is
> >actually easily recyclable.
>
> from .05 to, I believe, .10.
I think it is 15 cents for a six pack, so that would be 2.5 cents.
Xho
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB
Peter Boulding
<chrisg...@noo.spam.hotmail.com> wrote in
<4se0ocF...@mid.individual.net>:
>>>> As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
>>>> in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
>>>
>>>Glaswegians
>>
>> Not often I say this, but: LOL!!!!1!!!1!
Seconded.
>Youv'e tried asking for directions in Glasgow as well, have you?
Sod that: I recall the first time I tried to ask for directions in Hull...
--
Regards
Peter Boulding
p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal music & images: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/
Chris Greville
"Peter Boulding" <p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote in message
news:spp3m21gp33raic4g...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:43:08 -0000, "Chris Greville"
> <chrisg...@noo.spam.hotmail.com> wrote in
> <4se0ocF...@mid.individual.net>:
>
>>>>> As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
>>>>> in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
>>>>
>>>>Glaswegians
>>>
>>> Not often I say this, but: LOL!!!!1!!!1!
>
> Seconded.
>
>>Youv'e tried asking for directions in Glasgow as well, have you?
>
> Sod that: I recall the first time I tried to ask for directions in Hull...
>
Oh! You've met Hatpin, have you?
Actually, I had the same sort of experience in Hull.
I stopped and asked a lady for directions, she offered to show me the way if
I got rid of the old trout in the car. The present Mrs. G was not best
pleased.
Chris Greville
"Veronique" <veroniq...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1164040041.0...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> John Hatpin wrote:
>>
>> Oh, and we have wild deer and wild horses and a surprising variety of
>> feral Big Cats. And there are various schemes to reintroduce wild
>> boar, wolves and so on.
>
>
> Plus a vast proliferation of foxes, if the stories about the dire
> outcome of outlawing riding to the hounds is to be believed.
>
The foxes are very urbanised now, they are rapidly becoming as big a pest as
racoons. Some have even got striped tails now, but that's because they will
cross the road in front of the machine that paints the white lines on the
road. Slowly.
Peter Boulding
<chrisg...@noo.spam.hotmail.com> wrote in
<4se7kmF...@mid.individual.net>:
>Oh! You've met Hatpin, have you?
Unfortunately, no. Live there for three years myself - near where Mr H is
now - but that was a long time ago.
>Actually, I had the same sort of experience in Hull.
>I stopped and asked a lady for directions, she offered to show me the way if
>I got rid of the old trout in the car. The present Mrs. G was not best
>pleased.
Nice to know you've still got what it takes, though. And nice that she
knows.
John Hatpin
Actually, I've only ever passed through Glasgow on the way up the
Clyde (travelling to the Highlands), and didn't need directions. Thank
God.
But I do know all about Glaswegians, because I have a Billy Connolly
tape somewhere. And I know what a "Glasgow kiss" is, too.
--
John Hatpin
John Hatpin
I think of foxes being pretty small, so I'd excluded them.
But did you know that there are more hunts, and more people involved
in hunts, since the ban started? And that it's pretty likely the ban
will be revoked?
It's pretty funny, in a dark sort of way. There are so many
loopholes, and even with those, so little policing, that it's mostly
all been a big publicity campaign for hunts rather than a reduction of
fox-hunting.
Take, for example, the main loophole: you're still allowed to hunt for
foxes with birds. And if you do so, you're allowed to take dogs with
you to flush the foxes out, as long as you report any "accidents",
where the dogs get too excited and attack the foxes. Guess how much
interest the police have in that? There have been no prosecutions for
"accidents" - very many hunts have been asked by the police to stop
reporting "accidents", since they cause paperwork, and no prosecution
follows. It's just a process of recording.
So, the jolly hunt still goes out - ta-ra, ta-RA! - and hunts foxes
with hounds, just like in the old days. Red coats and plenty of
sherry, and all that. And the foxes are chased for miles by the
hounds and mauled to death by them. Great fun.
Two changes, though: firstly, most hunting is now done in woodland
areas rather than in open fields as it was traditionally. The reason
is that they're less likely to be spotted doing their thing, and even
less likely to be closely observed in their tactics. Which don't
include birds.
That's the second thing, and this is where it gets darkly funny.
Some hunts carry birds of prey with them, so that if the fuzz do get
involved, they can point to their falcon and say "but we're hunting
with birds - the dogs are just there to flush the prey - whoops, here
comes Rover with a fox in his mouth. Another accident. Have you
brought the forms with you?". One hunt actually takes along a Golden
Eagle, for some reason. It's never released.
But other hunts are more crafty. They take along all the
paraphernalia - the leather arm-bands and little hoods and all that
shit, but they don't actually have a bird with them. If the long arm
of the law stops their horses to check them out, they just point up
into the sky and say "There he is, can't you see him? He'll be back
in a couple of hours, no doubt".
No wonder the police decide to leave and investigate the break-in at
Mrs Jones's house ten miles up the road.
Effectively, they're pretty much immune from prosection. Hunting is
big business now, much bigger since the ban.
--
John Hatpin
John Hatpin
>Yes, and that's fine, but please not right outside my back door where I
>tread it into the house. But I've found the solution to this: tigers
>are fairly cheap it turns out, and these dog owners are going to start
>getting a little bit more than they bargained for when I open the back
>door. Dunno how the cat will react.
You don't even need to open the back door if you fit a tiger-flap to
your back door.
Though, come to think of it, there won't be much of your back door
left if you do.
--
John Hatpin
Blinky the Shark
> The foxes are very urbanised now, they are rapidly becoming as big a pest as
> racoons. Some have even got striped tails now, but that's because they will
> cross the road in front of the machine that paints the white lines on the
> road. Slowly.
Just for sport, or do they have business on the other side of the road?
Bill Turlock
>
> bill van wrote:
> > In article <slrnem2kq0....@thurston.blinkynet.net>,
> > Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> Blinky the Shark wrote:
> >> > Andrew Gore wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> against such "fees" that are thinly disguised taxes, I am completely
> >> >
> >> > Do you really consider that a tax, and turning in your containers a tax
> >> > and therefore turning in your containers getting a tax refund?
> >>
> >> Yow. But I think you get the gist of my question despite me. :)
> >
> > Sure. And it's clearly not a tax, but a recycling fee. You get the money
> > back when you turn the bottle in, and it doesn't end up in a ditch
> > somewhere.
> >
> > Or, as happens locally, if you're both lazy and charitable, you put your
> > bottles out in the lane in plastic bags once a week or so, and people
> > who need the money and are willing to go to some effort for it come and
> > pick them up and recycle them. Better all around than panhandling, I
> > think.
>
> That's quite close to what I posted 37 minutes before you. ;)
>
> "I let them collect in a laundry hamper lined with a large transparent
> trash bag, and when the bag is full I place it out front next to the
> fire hydrant so someone who's been less fortunate than I can pick up a
> few bucks. Been doing that for probably 15 years."
>
> And yes, it's still a good idea. :)
and the essence of what I posted at 8:49 P.M.
Chris Greville
"Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
> Chris Greville wrote:
>
>> The foxes are very urbanised now, they are rapidly becoming as big a pest
>> as
>> racoons. Some have even got striped tails now, but that's because they
>> will
>> cross the road in front of the machine that paints the white lines on the
>> road. Slowly.
>
> Just for sport, or do they have business on the other side of the road?
>
Yup, they are on the way to the diner.
I saw a documentary a couple of years ago about urban foxes in Bristol City.
They really have become a plague, raiding trash bins, food bowls for other
animals etc. There have been unexplained cases of cats going missing.
Somehow, it doesn't seem right to discuss pussies with Bristol Cities.
Chris Greville
"John Hatpin" <use...@jfhgetridofthisbitopkin.kaandthisbittooroo.co.uk>
wrote in message news:9kq3m2d1o0fm6isrc...@4ax.com...
> Chris Greville wrote:
>
>>
>>Youv'e tried asking for directions in Glasgow as well, have you?
>
> Actually, I've only ever passed through Glasgow on the way up the
> Clyde (travelling to the Highlands), and didn't need directions. Thank
> God.
>
sign that hasn't been turned into body armour.
They may not stop a bullet but they *do* deflect a blade.
> But I do know all about Glaswegians, because I have a Billy Connolly
> tape somewhere. And I know what a "Glasgow kiss" is, too.
Heh! I watched the last 20 minutes of a BC programme last night. From
Glasgow.
Blinky the Shark
Once an hour, it's 8:49 PM in lots of places.
Chris Greville
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:40:38 -0000, "Chris Greville"
> <chrisg...@noo.spam.hotmail.com> wrote in
> <4se7kmF...@mid.individual.net>:
>
>>Oh! You've met Hatpin, have you?
>
> Unfortunately, no. Live there for three years myself - near where Mr H is
> now - but that was a long time ago.
>
But you could have met Mr. Hatpin when he was sensible and B.C.*
>>Actually, I had the same sort of experience in Hull.
>>I stopped and asked a lady for directions, she offered to show me the way
>>if
>>I got rid of the old trout in the car. The present Mrs. G was not best
>>pleased.
>
> Nice to know you've still got what it takes, though. And nice that she
> knows.
>
*Before Children.
For money they will tell you anything. Rather like a politician.
Chris Greville
"Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnem405e....@thurston.blinkynet.net...
> Bill Turlock wrote:
>>
>> and the essence of what I posted at 8:49 P.M.
>
> Once an hour, it's 8:49 PM in lots of places.
>
Now you are sounding like the present Mrs. G.
She never opens a bottle of wine before 6pm.
She has a wall chart that shows 6pm and Brit. times around the world.
Tim Bradshaw
<chrisg...@noo.spam.hotmail.com> said:
> I saw a documentary a couple of years ago about urban foxes in Bristol
> City. They really have become a plague, raiding trash bins, food bowls
> for other animals etc. There have been unexplained cases of cats going
> missing.
I believe that foxes and cats live in a sort of mutual respect - cats
are too big, fast and sharp to be worth the risk to foxes, and foxes
are much too big for cats and don't taste good. Cats and ducks are in
a similar situation.
So basically I should think the cats got run over. There are, as you
say, a lot of urban foxes - I used to work in Wapping & walk home,
often late at night, to Lambeth, and I'd regularly see more than one,
so there must have been tens I didn't see.
--tim
Tim Bradshaw
<use...@jfhgetridofthisbitopkin.kaandthisbittooroo.co.uk> said:
> You don't even need to open the back door if you fit a tiger-flap to
> your back door.
>
> Though, come to think of it, there won't be much of your back door
> left if you do.
Got it in one. Also people notice tiger-flaps, I find. I'm thinking
of a door that opens outwards, so Bruce (he's not quite big enough to
take on people yet, but more than a match for even quite large dogs)
can just take a sort of run at it.
--tim
Chris Greville
> On 2006-11-20 19:16:24 +0000, "Chris Greville"
> <chrisg...@noo.spam.hotmail.com> said:
>
>> I saw a documentary a couple of years ago about urban foxes in Bristol
>> City. They really have become a plague, raiding trash bins, food bowls
>> for other animals etc. There have been unexplained cases of cats going
>> missing.
>
> I believe that foxes and cats live in a sort of mutual respect - cats are
> too big, fast and sharp to be worth the risk to foxes, and foxes are much
> too big for cats and don't taste good. Cats and ducks are in a similar
> situation.
>
Ducks are always a problem. We have a flood plain at the bottom of the hill
leading to our housing estate, in the spring, it is not unusual to seea mum
and kids wandering up the middle of the road.
The flood plain is a bit unusual, it has three small rivers on it, all flow
in different directions.
> So basically I should think the cats got run over. There are, as you say,
> a lot of urban foxes - I used to work in Wapping & walk home, often late
> at night, to Lambeth, and I'd regularly see more than one, so there must
> have been tens I didn't see.
>
A lot of the roadkill I see is foxes and badgers. Bird wise, it's always
pheasants. Stupid birds.
Tim Bradshaw
<chrisg...@noo.spam.hotmail.com> said:
> Bird wise, it's always pheasants. Stupid birds.
Pheasant shoots are always a dilemma. It's so manifestly awful with
the birds being driven onto the guns, but then again, they're pheasants.
--tim
John Hatpin
I've now got this image of a tiger being something like Brody in "The
Professionals" or Dennis Waterman's character in "The Sweeney",
shouting "oy!" and kicking down a door before running through and
getting violent.
Calvin would be delighted if Hobbes did that.
--
John Hatpin
Chris Greville
Any birds that are bred to be shot by the rich are incredibly stupid anyway.
Pigeons are not a lot better, perhaps Blinky would be kind enough to reprise
his story about the bomb aiming pigeons. And his attempts to train one.
Richard R. Hershberger
Chris Greville wrote:
> "Boron Elgar" <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:r8q1m255qtk8b6gnl...@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:00:04 +0000, Tim Bradshaw <t...@tfeb.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Try taking a gander at the all the trash around when you climb
> > Mt.Fuji.
> >
>
> There certainly is at Pearl.
When I lived in Flagstaff, Arizona I did a lot of hiking in some pretty
desolate places. There are huge expanses of national forest land that
have trails which are only lightly used. I noticed that the trails
would routinely have discarded beer cans, but only within the first few
hundred feet of the trailhead, and only really crappy beer I would
never voluntarily drink.
Say what you will about lefty Sierra Club lovin' tax-and-spend types:
they don't leave empy chardonet bottles behind them when they go
backpacking.
Richard R. Hershberger
N Jill Marsh
>I believe that foxes and cats live in a sort of mutual respect - cats
>are too big, fast and sharp to be worth the risk to foxes, and foxes
>are much too big for cats and don't taste good. Cats and ducks are in
>a similar situation.
Foxes will take kittens, and cats will take pups, but the adults seem
to be pretty cool with each other.
I have seen, two or three times, a fox and a feral cat walking down
the road beside each other here, appearing perfectly companionable
nj"this explains a lot, come to think"m
--
"You are under arrest and there will be no paella!"
Tim Bradshaw
> I have seen, two or three times, a fox and a feral cat walking down
> the road beside each other here, appearing perfectly companionable
I expect the foxes will eat the bits that the cats reject (I never knew
what it was, but our cats used to leave one particular organ on the
doormat, presumably because it was was just to vile to eat). This is
probably good for both - the fox gets food, and the cat avoids leaving
traces all over the place which perhaps frighten other prey.
--tim
Bob Ward
With a large enough dog door, and a leg bone from a cow in the front
yard, you don't even need the dog.
Blinky the Shark
<Google Groups>
he he
</Google Groups>
Charles Bishop
<bob...@email.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 19:18:27 -0800, ctbi...@earthlink.netttt (Charles
>Bishop) wrote:
>
>>
>>We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
>>from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax. We are also expected to
>>recycle them by putting them in bins for collection so that others get the
>>money for them, either the deposit or the value of the material. For
>>aluminum containers it's especially hurtful since the aluminum is actually
>>easily recyclable.
>>
>
>They don't have the parking lot recycle centers where you live?
No they don't. They had some in Santa Cruz where I lived previously but
none locally here.
>
>The only think that deters me from recycling my bottles is that it
>ends up costing me more in time than the cash returned, so I donate
>them to the girl who helps my wife with the cleaning.
Is it still cheaper to use the old glass to make new bottles than to begin
with new materials? I seem to remember that glass is energy intensive to
make so perhaps it is.
I still resent being charged a deposit with no easy way to get it back.
On the other hand, the OP mentioned that there was no deposit on the
plastic bottles in Britain and they litter the highways.
--
charles
Andrew Gore
<bil...@separatethis.canada.com> wrote:
>In article <slrnem2kq0....@thurston.blinkynet.net>,
> Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Blinky the Shark wrote:
>> > Andrew Gore wrote:
>> >
>> >> Yes, the deposits on cans and bottles here in Cali can range
>> >> from .05 to, I believe, .10. Tho, as a libertarian, I am normally
>> >> against such "fees" that are thinly disguised taxes, I am completely
>> >
>> > Do you really consider that a tax, and turning in your containers a tax
>> > and therefore turning in your containers getting a tax refund?
>>
>> Yow. But I think you get the gist of my question despite me. :)
>
>Sure. And it's clearly not a tax, but a recycling fee. You get the money
>back when you turn the bottle in, and it doesn't end up in a ditch
>somewhere.
While it's technically not a "tax", it's ya know, a
gov't-imposd fee. In fact, the reason it works where most taxes don't,
is that the gov't doesn't collect the revenues, only those who make
the effort to do something useful, do. Would that all taxes were so
effective.
>
>Or, as happens locally, if you're both lazy and charitable, you put your
>bottles out in the lane in plastic bags once a week or so, and people
>who need the money and are willing to go to some effort for it come and
>pick them up and recycle them. Better all around than panhandling, I
>think.
Exactly. I don't recycle my deposit bottles, I toss em in the
trash. Once a week, the apartment manager puts the cans on the curb
for the next morning's collectin. Early that morning, like clockwork,
I hear the sound of the old gal rummaging thru the cans, collecting
the returnables from my and others' trash. `Sometimes I see her when I
leave for work, filling her shopping cart with cans and bottles. And I
always give her a cheery "Hi, Mom, nice to see you again!".
Greg Goss
>The flood plain is a bit unusual, it has three small rivers on it, all flow
>in different directions.
"Canal Flats" in BC has two of our "great rivers" running through it.
The headwaters of the Columbia are in the swamp, and the Kootenay
river runs through it near its headwaters. I think that they each run
for 700 miles or so, through two countries before rejoining at
Castlegar.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=canal+flats,+bc&ie=UTF8&z=13&t=k&om=1
http://www.britishcolumbia.com/regions/towns/?townID=4017
"Due to curiosity of geology, the headwaters of the vast Columbia
River are separated from the south-flowing Kootenay River by a low,
1.2-mile wide (2-km) berm of land called Canal Flats. The Kootenay
River then meanders down into the US before flowing back north into
Canada to join the Columbia River at Castlegar, BC.
Canal Flats was originally named McGillivray's Portage by David
Thompson, who passed through the area in 1808. Not far from the Canal
Flats Provincial Park are the remains of a canal, completed in 1889,
which connected Columbia Lake with the nearby Kootenay River, hence
the name Canal Flats given to the post office in 1913.
The canal was part of a scheme by English/Austrian entrepreneur
William Adolph Baillie-Grohman in the 1880s to breach Canal Flats and
divert water from the upper Kootenay River into the Columbia system,
thereby sufficiently lowering the level of Kootenay Lake to reclaim
the 48,000-acre rich alluvial plain in the Creston area and open up a
north-south navigational system from Golden to Montana. The scheme was
abandoned under pressure from the Canadian Pacific Railways, concerned
about its Columbia River Crossings, and from Settlers around Golden
who feared that their farmlands would be flooded.
Baillie-Grohman had to settle for building a canal and lock system
between the two rivers, completed in 1889. Only two ships ever passed
through the canal; in 1895 the vessel Gwendoline successfully
navigated the canal from the Kootenay River to the Columbia River,
followed in 1902 by the North Star."
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Greg Goss
>2006-11-20 <ctbishop-191...@dialup-4.246.69.44.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net>,
>Charles Bishop wrote:
>> We have similar deposits in CA, with no easy way to get our money back
>> from the deposit, so it is in effect a tax.
>
>How's it a tax? Is the price at the vending machine / store / etc
>consistently higher in a way that correlates to the size of the
>'deposit'? My impression was that the 5c or 10c is _not_ collected by
>the state, but merely something that the manufacturer is required to
>give to the customer on all bottles that are turned in [which means that
>the cost of paying it back on a fraction of the bottles is spread out
>across all bottles]. Is this not the case? I thought this dated back to
>the days when glass bottles were reused, and was written into law to
>prevent manufacturers from discontinuing that practice.
The "no deposit no return" glass bottles were getting pretty universal
in BC before the law came in. I assumed it was that way everywhere.
One of CW McCall's songs (he was based in Colorado) mentions "no
deposit, no sad songs, and no return" when talking about filling the
countryside with landfill.
Bill Kinkaid
>"Chris Greville" <chrisg...@noo.spam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The flood plain is a bit unusual, it has three small rivers on it, all flow
>>in different directions.
>
>"Canal Flats" in BC has two of our "great rivers" running through it.
>The headwaters of the Columbia are in the swamp, and the Kootenay
>river runs through it near its headwaters. I think that they each run
>for 700 miles or so, through two countries before rejoining at
>Castlegar.
>http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=canal+flats,+bc&ie=UTF8&z=13&t=k&om=1
>
>
>http://www.britishcolumbia.com/regions/towns/?townID=4017
>"Due to curiosity of geology, the headwaters of the vast Columbia
>River are separated from the south-flowing Kootenay River by a low,
>1.2-mile wide (2-km) berm of land called Canal Flats. The Kootenay
>River then meanders down into the US before flowing back north into
>Canada to join the Columbia River at Castlegar, BC.
>
lake. Historically it was a marshy lake that mostly drained north into
the Similkameen (thence to the Okanagan and the Columbia), but a small
dam at the north end (built mainly to enlarge the lake for
recreational purposes) now has it also draining south into the Skagit.
--
Bill in Vancouver
Bill Kinkaid
wrote:
>Tim Bradshaw wrote:
>
>> The problem is that rifles are really dangerous in the UK. I think
>> even a 22 is lethal at half a mile or something, and it's so crowded
>> that there's a significant risk from stray bullets hitting randoms.
>> Shotguns don't have this problem, but are useless against larger
>> animals and, well, people at any range: you want something that will
>> kill them, not just make a huge mess of them.
>
>As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
>in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
The Royals.
--
Bill in Vancouver
Walter Traprock
> The "no deposit no return" glass bottles were getting pretty universal
> in BC before the law came in. I assumed it was that way everywhere.
> One of CW McCall's songs (he was based in Colorado) mentions "no
> deposit, no sad songs, and no return" when talking about filling the
> countryside with landfill.
Do you know which CW McCall song is that?
Are you a McCall completist?
Blinky the Shark
We keep ours in Kansas City where they can't do much damage.
groo
>
> But there can be no possible excuse for just dropping the empty
> bottles. There's no advertising saying this is a reasonable thing to
> do. No political party is suggesting it's OK. The truth is that the
> people who do this just don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.
> They're the sort of people who park their 4x4s in the disabled spaces
> at supermarkets, the people I catch letting their dogs crap in the
> alley beside my house. In fact, they're not even smart enough to
> realise that their behaviour is destroying the place they've paid good
> money to come and visit (because you can bet that none of them are
> locals).
>
> When I am made king of the world (and I expect the appointment any day
> now), I will set these people to cleaning up the filth they leave.
> When they die, I will have their heads impaled on stakes with signs
> warning others not to do as they did, and I will place these stakes in
> every town and village in the world (you can be sure there are enough
> of them). Their bodies will be ground down and used as food for
> wildlife. This I regard as far too lenient a punishment.
After your coronation, I shall open my new manufacturing plant. It will
take plastic water bottles and recycle them into high-quality impaling
stakes.
Mary
Sorry, but recycled plastic tends to lose its structural strength. Your
stakes will be too bendy to impale anyone.
Mary
Boron Elgar
Perhaps they can be re-worked into reinforced bollards.
Boron
Tim Bradshaw
> Sorry, but recycled plastic tends to lose its structural strength.
> Your stakes will be too bendy to impale anyone.
No, I think it's fine. We'll just leave them for a bit (the offenders)
until they soften. Actually, we'll make them work in the recycling
factory first.
--tim
Dana Carpender
Mary wrote:
Um... I have two rocking chairs made of recycled pop bottles. Not bendy
at all. Really great stuff, actually.
Dana
Veronique
But do you have a Lay-Z-Boy made of recycled bollards?
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Mary
Well, there's a difference between mass and actual structural strength.
I have a deck made of recycled plastic, but you couldn't use those
boards to frame your house.
Mary
Veronique
> Well, there's a difference between mass and actual structural strength.
> I have a deck made of recycled plastic, but you couldn't use those
> boards to frame your house.
For that you use old National Geographics.
groo
I like the way you think. Can I be your Grand Vizier?
Chris Greville
"Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnem94ua....@thurston.blinkynet.net...
> Bill Kinkaid wrote:
>> On 20 Nov 2006 07:55:29 GMT, Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>>Tim Bradshaw wrote:
>>>
>>>> The problem is that rifles are really dangerous in the UK. I think
>>>> even a 22 is lethal at half a mile or something, and it's so crowded
>>>> that there's a significant risk from stray bullets hitting randoms.
>>>> Shotguns don't have this problem, but are useless against larger
>>>> animals and, well, people at any range: you want something that will
>>>> kill them, not just make a huge mess of them.
>>>
>>>As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
>>>in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
>>
>> The Royals.
>
> We keep ours in Kansas City where they can't do much damage.
>
Yay brother, I feel your pain.
Chris Greville
"Mary" <mrfea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dL19h.155352$aJ.59824@attbi_s21...
Off course you could. First step is to get a cop. They are really good at
framing things.
Tim Bradshaw
> Well, there's a difference between mass and actual structural strength.
> I have a deck made of recycled plastic, but you couldn't use those
> boards to frame your house.
That's OK, we just need them for impaling people's heads.
Tim Bradshaw
> I like the way you think. Can I be your Grand Vizier?
Only if you can tell me what one is.
Mary
Well, all right then, but it's gonna get messy.
Mary
Peter Boulding
<ek2hf9$d3a$2$8302...@news.demon.co.uk>:
>> I like the way you think. Can I be your Grand Vizier?
>
>Only if you can tell me what one is.
NSOED:
vizier
Hist. In some Muslim countries, esp. Turkey under Ottoman rule: a high state
official or minister; a governor or viceroy of a province; esp. (also grand
vizier) the chief minister of the sovereign.
--
Regards
Peter Boulding
p...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal music & images: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/
Greg Goss
There won't be no country music.
>Are you a McCall completist?
I thought I was. Until I went looking for info twenty years later and
found two more albums. I've got the first four albums on vinyl.
Nothing on CD, other than a few "napstered" songs.
Like both versions of Convoy.
"Arizona, at noon, on the fourth of June
as they highballed over the pass"
Never saw the movie, though.
Snidely
Hank Gillette wrote:
> In article <slrnem2ivu....@thurston.blinkynet.net>,
> Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > When I lived in California, there was a reverse vending machine for
> > > aluminum cans outside of the second nearest grocery store.
> >
> > I can't speak for anything other than my own Los Angeles haunts, but I
> > haven't seen one of those machines for years.
> >
>
> Since it's been years since I left California, I haven't either.
>
They're still around SoCal -- just look for a sticky puddle, a crusher
is near by.
/dps
Snidely
Peter Boulding wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:43:08 -0000, "Chris Greville"
> >>>> As for larger nonhuman animals, I didn't know you had any over there
> >>>> in the UK other than the domesticated kind. What have you?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Not often I say this, but: LOL!!!!1!!!1!
>
> Seconded.
>
> >Youv'e tried asking for directions in Glasgow as well, have you?
>
> Sod that: I recall the first time I tried to ask for directions in Hull...
On my brief visit to the Land That Inspired Oregon, I had only 1 moment
of trouble in Glasgow ... when the uniformed lass (Customs Offiicer?)
said, "that's a lood"*. I did better there than in Edinburgh,
especially with the gentle in the pub who noticed that we were
Amurrican, and started showing off for us. Even after years of
listening to "The Thistle & Shamrock", I was soon lost.
*I was trying to interpret a poster about bringing things in, and to
relate that to my camera.
**The 2nd toughest spot (ear-wise) in Glasgow was during the Rennie
MacIntosh tour of the school, but even my brother could handle that
one.
/dps
Blinky the Shark
> Um... I have two rocking chairs made of recycled pop bottles. Not bendy
> at all. Really great stuff, actually.
Sounds classy. What kind of glue did you use? ;)
Dana Carpender
Blinky the Shark wrote:
> Dana Carpender wrote:
>
>
>>Um... I have two rocking chairs made of recycled pop bottles. Not bendy
>>at all. Really great stuff, actually.
>
>
> Sounds classy. What kind of glue did you use? ;)
>
>
Ba-ha-ha. Here's a link; my rockers are like the first picture:
http://www.seasidecasual.com/envirodining.html
Dana