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A Clever Plan to Fix the Reactor Problem

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Private Party

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Mar 17, 2011, 1:18:51 AM3/17/11
to
I have A CLEVER PLAN (tm)

Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical
nuclear strike. All the fissionables fission at once
and provided the wind is blowing the right way
the radioactivity will be less of a problem than
having a leaking piece of shit for the next 20 years.
People live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, don't they?
They would likely be able to start rebuilding the
area in under a year rather than have this drag on
for years!

NO, I am not kidding.

--
Private Party
"Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion."


Mac

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Mar 17, 2011, 2:00:58 AM3/17/11
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On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 01:18:51 -0400, "Private Party"
<usenetcontac...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have A CLEVER PLAN (tm)
>
>Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical
>nuclear strike. All the fissionables fission at once
>and provided the wind is blowing the right way
>the radioactivity will be less of a problem than
>having a leaking piece of shit for the next 20 years.
>People live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, don't they?
>They would likely be able to start rebuilding the
>area in under a year rather than have this drag on
>for years!
>
>NO, I am not kidding.

Deinstitutionalization has its price.

John Hatpin

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Mar 17, 2011, 2:32:40 AM3/17/11
to
Private Party wrote:

> I have A CLEVER PLAN (tm)
>
> Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical
> nuclear strike. All the fissionables fission at once
> and provided the wind is blowing the right way
> the radioactivity will be less of a problem than
> having a leaking piece of shit for the next 20 years.
> People live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, don't they?
> They would likely be able to start rebuilding the
> area in under a year rather than have this drag on
> for years!
>
> NO, I am not kidding.

Fans of Blackadder will tell you it's supposed to be a *cunning* plan.

Oh, and it's supposed to be cunning, or even clever.
--
John Hatpin

Greg Goss

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Mar 17, 2011, 3:04:24 AM3/17/11
to
"Private Party" <usenetcontac...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have A CLEVER PLAN (tm)
>
>Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical
>nuclear strike. All the fissionables fission at once
>and provided the wind is blowing the right way
>the radioactivity will be less of a problem than
>having a leaking piece of shit for the next 20 years.
>People live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, don't they?
>They would likely be able to start rebuilding the
>area in under a year rather than have this drag on
>for years!

I think that H had about a ton of uranium and that N had somewhat less
than that of more-poisonous plutonium. Power plants have hundreds of
tons of either Uranium or mixed Uranium / Plutonium.

Scale would be vastly different.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27

Private Party

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Mar 17, 2011, 3:27:36 AM3/17/11
to

Little Boy had about 64 kilograms of U-235 The rest was explosive
and tamper used for inertial containment. Fat Man had about 13.6
pounds of P-239 with the great majority of the weight being the
explosive lenses used to compress the physics package. I think
your estimate of power plant uranium/plutonium fuel is also
way off. The "Demon Core" was not much bigger than a softball.
If you want to read about a nasty accident, Google that. Two men
were killed by momentary criticality incidents of the same
physics package.

In any event, when you consider what is going to be involved
if they fail to calm this situation down, a NUDET would be
far easier to manage in the long run. If they keep up the way
they are going it might not be resolved in our lifetimes.

dilbert firestorm

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Mar 17, 2011, 10:36:22 PM3/17/11
to
On 3/17/2011 12:18 AM, Private Party wrote:
> I have A CLEVER PLAN (tm)
>
> Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical
> nuclear strike. All the fissionables fission at once
> and provided the wind is blowing the right way
> the radioactivity will be less of a problem than
> having a leaking piece of shit for the next 20 years.
> People live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, don't they?
> They would likely be able to start rebuilding the
> area in under a year rather than have this drag on
> for years!
>
> NO, I am not kidding.
>
not kidding,huh?

I think you're a very good candidate to get fragged.

--
<---=««-Dilbert Firestorm-»»=--->
Zizzle that Fire - it's Zizzle Time !!!!!!!

Shawn Wilson

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Mar 17, 2011, 10:49:38 PM3/17/11
to
On Mar 16, 10:18 pm, "Private Party" <usenetcontact2011-

priv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have A CLEVER PLAN (tm)
>
> Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical
> nuclear strike. All the fissionables fission at once
> and provided the wind is blowing the right way
> the radioactivity will be less of a problem than
> having a leaking piece of shit for the next 20 years.
> People live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, don't they?
> They would likely be able to start rebuilding the
> area in under a year rather than have this drag on
> for years!
>
> NO, I am not kidding.


But you don't know about nuclear power. No, detonating a nuclear
weapon will not cause radioactive materials in the vicinity to go
critical.

danny burstein

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Mar 17, 2011, 10:57:46 PM3/17/11
to

>But you don't know about nuclear power. No, detonating a nuclear
>weapon will not cause radioactive materials in the vicinity to go
>critical.

I wouldn't be quite so certain. If you irradiate
the uranium isotopes sufficiently to get lots
of plutonium...

I'd have to pull out some envelopes and scribble
enough figures to get some eyebrows raised
in my direction.

(I doubt it would be an issue, but I'm not quite
so quick to say it can't possibly be).

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Zbicyclist

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Mar 17, 2011, 11:37:11 PM3/17/11
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On Mar 17, 12:18 am, "Private Party" <usenetcontact2011-

Heck, why don't we just send the nuclear plant an eviction notice? Or
a cease-and-desist order?

Shawn Wilson

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Mar 17, 2011, 11:41:27 PM3/17/11
to
On Mar 17, 7:57 pm, danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote:

> >But you don't know about nuclear power.  No, detonating a nuclear
> >weapon will not cause radioactive materials in the vicinity to go
> >critical.
>
> I wouldn't be quite so certain. If you irradiate
> the uranium isotopes sufficiently to get lots
> of plutonium...


Detonate a nuke on it and what you get is uranium gas (well, plasma).
Intentionally designed nukes sometimes fail to go off properly, you
can't get one to go BANG! casually. Uranuium is not gunpowder. It
will not detonate be mere 'example'.

danny burstein

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Mar 17, 2011, 11:44:54 PM3/17/11
to
In <c9bc72f5-6f10-4461...@a21g2000prj.googlegroups.com> Shawn Wilson <ikono...@gmail.com> writes:
[snippeth]

>> I wouldn't be quite so certain. If you irradiate
>> the uranium isotopes sufficiently to get lots
>> of plutonium...

>Detonate a nuke on it and what you get is uranium gas (well, plasma).

Neutrons travel much faster than the shock wave...

>Intentionally designed nukes sometimes fail to go off properly, you
>can't get one to go BANG! casually. Uranuium is not gunpowder. It
>will not detonate be mere 'example'.

Uranium + neutrons => plutonium. (I'll leave the isotopes
for the student). A lump of plutonium can undergo criticiality.

I doubt it's a real possibility, but as I said before I'd
have to sketch out some calculations that would get people
very interested in me...

>>
>> I'd have to pull out some envelopes and scribble
>> enough figures to get some eyebrows raised
>> in my direction.
>>
>> (I doubt it would be an issue, but I'm not quite
>> so quick to say it can't possibly be).
>>
>> --
>> _____________________________________________________
>> Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0dan...@panix.com

Private Party

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Mar 18, 2011, 12:48:32 AM3/18/11
to

I never said it would make them go critical. It would vaporize the
whole mess and disperse the problem into the upper atmosphere.
But I guess it is a bad idea. We can see how the forthright and
competant Japanese are quickly and efficiently dealing with the
situation.

Private Party

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Mar 18, 2011, 12:50:41 AM3/18/11
to
Zbicyclist wrote:
> On Mar 17, 12:18 am, "Private Party" <usenetcontact2011-
> priv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I have A CLEVER PLAN (tm)
>>
>> Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical
>> nuclear strike. All the fissionables fission at once
>> and provided the wind is blowing the right way
>> the radioactivity will be less of a problem than
>> having a leaking piece of shit for the next 20 years.
>> People live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, don't they?
>> They would likely be able to start rebuilding the
>> area in under a year rather than have this drag on
>> for years!
>>
>> NO, I am not kidding.
>
> Heck, why don't we just send the nuclear plant an eviction notice? Or
> a cease-and-desist order?

Well yeah! Our stern admonitions have stopped Gaddafi!

Bob

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Mar 18, 2011, 1:05:49 AM3/18/11
to
On Mar 17, 1:18 am, "Private Party" <usenetcontact2011-
priv...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical
> nuclear strike. All the fissionables fission at once

You couldn't get that many neutrons from all the neutron bombs on
Earth, even if you modified all the other bombs for max neutrons.

Private Party

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Mar 18, 2011, 1:25:06 AM3/18/11
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You know, I bet you might be right.

Greg Goss

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Mar 18, 2011, 2:48:57 AM3/18/11
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danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote:

>Neutrons travel much faster than the shock wave...

... and ...

>Uranium + neutrons => plutonium. (I'll leave the isotopes
>for the student). A lump of plutonium can undergo criticiality.

Doesn't it turn into something else that takes several days to turn
into plutonium? So the conversion doesn't "help" the blast being
examined.

Greg Goss

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Mar 18, 2011, 2:50:05 AM3/18/11
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Bob <rob...@bestweb.net> wrote:

I think that this argument would have been helpved if PP had actually
provided a verb in that sentence. Different people are inserting
different implied verbs, with differing resulting arguments.

Snidely

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Mar 18, 2011, 2:54:41 AM3/18/11
to
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> scribbled something like ...

Which sentence? "Take out" is a verb, as is "fission". And that's 2
sentences.

/dps

Greg Goss

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Mar 18, 2011, 3:22:22 AM3/18/11
to
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:

Withdrawn. I was reading it wrong. The verb is present, but the
statement is now wrong.

Rick B.

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Mar 18, 2011, 8:01:30 AM3/18/11
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Bob <rob...@bestweb.net> wrote in news:f050f775-ae13-4091-8edf-b36516dac356
@f2g2000yqf.googlegroups.com:

I think I'll change my name to Max Neutron.

art...@yahoo.com

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Mar 18, 2011, 8:55:36 AM3/18/11
to

Back when I was in college, there was an earthquake awareness day.
Some people were passing around a petition to ban earthquakes.
Tragically, nobody took them seriously.

Lee Ayrton

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Mar 18, 2011, 10:29:40 AM3/18/11
to

What will your superpower be?

Lee Ayrton

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Mar 18, 2011, 10:31:37 AM3/18/11
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No, it is a bad idea in the same way that dispersing a pot of flaming fry
oil evenly over the kitchen floor is a bad idea.

Peter Boulding

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Mar 18, 2011, 10:43:57 AM3/18/11
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On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:29:40 +0000 (UTC), Lee Ayrton <lay...@panix.nul>
wrote in <ilvq8k$ac5$4...@reader1.panix.com>:

>>>> Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical nuclear strike.
>>>> All the fissionables fission at once
>>>
>>> You couldn't get that many neutrons from all the neutron bombs on
>>> Earth, even if you modified all the other bombs for max neutrons.
>>
>> I think I'll change my name to Max Neutron.
>
>What will your superpower be?

The ability to produce jerky freeze-frame wit when viewed through an
electron microscope.

--
Regards, Peter Boulding
pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal Music and Images: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/ and
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=794240&content=music

Rick B.

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Mar 18, 2011, 11:08:22 AM3/18/11
to
Peter Boulding <pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote in
news:4pr6o6tu8p5g7gkgk...@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:29:40 +0000 (UTC), Lee Ayrton <lay...@panix.nul>
> wrote in <ilvq8k$ac5$4...@reader1.panix.com>:
>
>>>>> Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical nuclear strike.
>>>>> All the fissionables fission at once
>>>>
>>>> You couldn't get that many neutrons from all the neutron bombs on
>>>> Earth, even if you modified all the other bombs for max neutrons.
>>>
>>> I think I'll change my name to Max Neutron.
>>
>>What will your superpower be?
>
> The ability to produce jerky freeze-frame wit when viewed through an
> electron microscope.

As opposed to my current ability to produce jerky wit on Usenet.

Peter Boulding

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Mar 18, 2011, 11:23:42 AM3/18/11
to
On 18 Mar 2011 15:08:22 GMT, "Rick B." <deep...@sprynet.com.aq> wrote in
<Xns9EAC7145F...@130.133.4.11>:

>>>>>> Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical nuclear strike.
>>>>>> All the fissionables fission at once
>>>>>
>>>>> You couldn't get that many neutrons from all the neutron bombs on
>>>>> Earth, even if you modified all the other bombs for max neutrons.
>>>>
>>>> I think I'll change my name to Max Neutron.
>>>
>>>What will your superpower be?
>>
>> The ability to produce jerky freeze-frame wit when viewed through an
>> electron microscope.
>
>As opposed to my current ability to produce jerky wit on Usenet.

Jerk.

art...@yahoo.com

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Mar 18, 2011, 11:26:39 AM3/18/11
to
On Mar 18, 10:43 am, Peter Boulding <pjbne...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:29:40 +0000 (UTC), Lee Ayrton <layr...@panix.nul>
> wrote in <ilvq8k$ac...@reader1.panix.com>:

>
> >>>> Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical nuclear strike.
> >>>> All the fissionables fission at once
>
> >>> You couldn't get that many neutrons from all the neutron bombs on
> >>> Earth, even if you modified all the other bombs for max neutrons.
>
> >> I think I'll change my name to Max Neutron.
>
> >What will your superpower be?
>
> The ability to produce jerky freeze-frame wit when viewed through an
> electron microscope.

That's quite SEM superpower you got there.

Peter Ward

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Mar 18, 2011, 1:55:46 PM3/18/11
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Peter Boulding says...

>
> On 18 Mar 2011 15:08:22 GMT, "Rick B." <deep...@sprynet.com.aq> wrote in
> <Xns9EAC7145F...@130.133.4.11>:
>
> >>>>>> Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical nuclear strike.
> >>>>>> All the fissionables fission at once
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You couldn't get that many neutrons from all the neutron bombs on
> >>>>> Earth, even if you modified all the other bombs for max neutrons.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think I'll change my name to Max Neutron.
> >>>
> >>>What will your superpower be?
> >>
> >> The ability to produce jerky freeze-frame wit when viewed through an
> >> electron microscope.
> >
> >As opposed to my current ability to produce jerky wit on Usenet.
>
> Jerk.

Mmmmm, chicken!

--

Peter, from outside the asylum

I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
http://blowinsmoke.wordpress.com/
Home is where the cat is.
- Greg Goss

John Hatpin

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Mar 18, 2011, 5:16:14 PM3/18/11
to
Rick B. wrote:

The Most Dangerous Man in the Universe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n3TsWRpLrk
--
John Hatpin

Charles Wm. Dimmick

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Mar 18, 2011, 6:40:30 PM3/18/11
to
Well, since neutrons have mass but no charge, his superpower is likely
to be inertia.

Charles

Bill Turlock

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Mar 18, 2011, 8:00:51 PM3/18/11
to


> as is "fission".

not in my dic. I'd use "fiss".

Peter Boulding

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Mar 18, 2011, 7:16:43 PM3/18/11
to
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:40:30 -0400, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
<cdim...@snet.net> wrote in <im0n0u$vi1$1...@news.eternal-september.org>:

>Well, since neutrons have mass but no charge, his superpower is likely
>to be inertia.

For the Tammy Wynette earworm, no charge.

Boron Elgar

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Mar 18, 2011, 7:39:52 PM3/18/11
to
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:16:43 +0000, Peter Boulding
<pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:40:30 -0400, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
><cdim...@snet.net> wrote in <im0n0u$vi1$1...@news.eternal-september.org>:
>
>>Well, since neutrons have mass but no charge, his superpower is likely
>>to be inertia.
>
>For the Tammy Wynette earworm, no charge.


Why did I read that as Tranny Wynette?

Boron

Paul Madarasz

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Mar 18, 2011, 8:43:38 PM3/18/11
to
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:00:51 -0800, Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock
"@sonnnic.invalid> wrote, perhaps among other things:

Hence, "little fission" = "fizzle"

Paul Madarasz

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Mar 18, 2011, 8:44:24 PM3/18/11
to
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:29:40 +0000 (UTC), Lee Ayrton
<lay...@panix.nul> wrote, perhaps among other things:

I was thinking about buying his first album.

Paul Madarasz

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Mar 18, 2011, 8:46:22 PM3/18/11
to
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:39:52 -0400, Boron Elgar
<boron...@hotmail.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:

Pre-op country singers aren't exactly a dime a dozen.

D.F. Manno

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Mar 18, 2011, 11:15:13 PM3/18/11
to
In article <ils5jn$7oj$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
"Private Party" <usenetcontac...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have A CLEVER PLAN (tm)
>

> Take out the entire plant with a low-level tactical
> nuclear strike. All the fissionables fission at once

> and provided the wind is blowing the right way
> the radioactivity will be less of a problem than
> having a leaking piece of shit for the next 20 years.
> People live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, don't they?
> They would likely be able to start rebuilding the
> area in under a year rather than have this drag on
> for years!
>
> NO, I am not kidding.

"There is always an easy solution to every human problem - neat,
plausible, and wrong."

--
D.F. Manno
dfm...@mail.com

D.F. Manno

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Mar 18, 2011, 11:17:24 PM3/18/11
to
In article
<7456a81a-a0fb-44f4...@s18g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Shawn Wilson <ikono...@gmail.com> wrote:

> But you don't know about nuclear power.

And you're some kind of nuclear physicist?

--
D.F. Manno
dfm...@mail.com

Mac

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Mar 19, 2011, 2:14:38 AM3/19/11
to
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:17:24 -0400, "D.F. Manno" <dfm...@mail.com>
wrote:

>In article
><7456a81a-a0fb-44f4...@s18g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> Shawn Wilson <ikono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> But you don't know about nuclear power.
>
>And you're some kind of nuclear physicist?

There's no end of subjects you can gain mastery of by not having a
degree in them.

Bill Turlock

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Mar 19, 2011, 3:41:58 AM3/19/11
to

essen/fessen

art...@yahoo.com

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Mar 19, 2011, 8:25:45 AM3/19/11
to
On Mar 18, 7:39 pm, Boron Elgar <boron_el...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:16:43 +0000, Peter Boulding
>
> <pjbne...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk> wrote:
> >On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:40:30 -0400, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
> ><cdimm...@snet.net> wrote in <im0n0u$vi...@news.eternal-september.org>:

>
> >>Well, since neutrons have mass but no charge, his superpower is likely
> >>to be inertia.
>
> >For the Tammy Wynette earworm, no charge.
>
> Why did I read that as Tranny Wynette?
>
> Boron

Does she (he?) cover "A Boy Named Sue"?

Paul Madarasz

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Mar 19, 2011, 12:25:47 PM3/19/11
to
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:41:58 -0800, Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock

fressen, no?

Shawn Wilson

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Mar 19, 2011, 2:38:12 PM3/19/11
to
On Mar 17, 8:44 pm, danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote:

> >> I wouldn't be quite so certain. If you irradiate
> >> the uranium isotopes sufficiently to get lots
> >> of plutonium...
> >Detonate a nuke on it and what you get is uranium gas (well, plasma).
>
> Neutrons travel much faster than the shock wave...

At yet slower than gamma rays. Uranium plasma.


> >Intentionally designed nukes sometimes fail to go off properly, you
> >can't get one to go BANG! casually.  Uranuium is not gunpowder.  It
> >will not detonate be mere 'example'.
>
> Uranium + neutrons => plutonium. (I'll leave the isotopes
> for the student). A lump of plutonium can undergo criticiality.


What we are dealing with HERE is a lump of URANIUM.


> I doubt it's a real possibility, but as I said before I'd
> have to sketch out some calculations that would get people
> very interested in me...

No one would care. it's a homework problem in physics.

Shawn Wilson

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Mar 19, 2011, 2:39:31 PM3/19/11
to
On Mar 18, 5:55 am, "art...@yahoo.com" <art...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Back when I was in college, there was an earthquake awareness day.
> Some people were passing around a petition to ban earthquakes.
> Tragically,  nobody took them seriously.


People STILL sign petitions to ban Dihydrogen Monoxide though...

Shawn Wilson

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Mar 19, 2011, 2:40:26 PM3/19/11
to
On Mar 18, 8:17 pm, "D.F. Manno" <dfma...@mail.com> wrote:

> > But you don't know about nuclear power.
>
> And you're some kind of nuclear physicist?


Compared to YOU I am the god of all knowledge...

Boron Elgar

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Mar 19, 2011, 3:05:52 PM3/19/11
to
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:17:24 -0400, "D.F. Manno" <dfm...@mail.com>
wrote:

>In article

><7456a81a-a0fb-44f4...@s18g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> Shawn Wilson <ikono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> But you don't know about nuclear power.
>
>And you're some kind of nuclear physicist?

I bet he knows as much about nuclear physics as he does about econ.

art...@yahoo.com

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Mar 19, 2011, 3:53:01 PM3/19/11
to

Water you talking about?

Charles Bishop

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Mar 19, 2011, 4:58:05 PM3/19/11
to
In article <im0n0u$vi1$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, "Charles Wm.
Dimmick" <cdim...@snet.net> wrote:

Or fishin'

Charles

Tim Wright

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Mar 19, 2011, 3:59:11 PM3/19/11
to

That's just damp foolish.

--

Tim W

art...@yahoo.com

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Mar 19, 2011, 4:02:01 PM3/19/11
to

Yeah, but I am the God of Hellfire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8

Much cooler
And his name is Arthur

Mac

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Mar 19, 2011, 4:20:57 PM3/19/11