Ditto Fumes
Bob Kaufman
absolutely no sense to you.
Back in elemtary (grammar) school, one of my fondest memories is taking a
deep whiff of a stack of freshly dittoed handouts. I have two questions
pertaining to this:
1. What horrible things was I doing to my body?
2. What happened to the beloved ditto machine?
TIA,
Bob
Lalbert1
<gutterbo...@home.com> writes:
You are referring to the mimeograph machine. They haven't been made in a long
time, but there are some still in use and they probably can be found in
schools. I read somewhere that parts are no longer available, so the ditto
machine will disappear into history very soon. I remember the smell of fresh
mimeographed papers. Breathing that in was probably harmless, but he fluid
used in the mimeograph process is a known carcinogen, absorbed by skin contact.
It is on OSHA's list of dangerous substances.
Les
Bob Kaufman
> >Back in elemtary (grammar) school, one of my fondest memories is taking a
> >deep whiff of a stack of freshly dittoed handouts. I have two questions
> >pertaining to this:
> >
> >1. What horrible things was I doing to my body?
> >2. What happened to the beloved ditto machine?
> >
> >
>
> You are referring to the mimeograph machine.
Mimeograph! *That's* why I couldn't find any references to "ditto" machine.
Thank you!!!
:Bob
Boron Elgar
1. None, assuming you didn't spend your entire elementary edu huffing
purple pages. Oh...and don't lick your fingers after flipping througn
that stack of xeroxed reports, either.
2. They're dead, Jim. Well, ok...some of them still live in church
basements & leftist cadre hangouts, but they are just too messy too
deal with. Copiers are much more cost efficient these days.
Boron
D.F. Manno
1) I don't know, but if there were any deleterious health effects I share
them with you. In 8th grade I ran the mimeograph machine for my small
grade school. I loved that smell, and so did many of my classmates.
2) Mimeograph machines have been by and large replaced by photocopiers.
While we're waxing nostaglic about smells, whatever happened to "hospital
smell"? Growing up in the 60's, I remember that hospitals had their own
distinctive smell, a sharp but not altogether unpleasant scent that hit
you as soon as you walked through the front door. Hospitals nowadays don't
have it. So my questions are: what was that smell? and what happened to
it?
--
D.F. Manno
domm...@netscape.net
"If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane." ‹ Jimmy Buffett
Lalbert1
domm...@netscape.net (D.F. Manno) writes:
>While we're waxing nostaglic about smells, whatever happened to "hospital
>smell"? Growing up in the 60's, I remember that hospitals had their own
>distinctive smell, a sharp but not altogether unpleasant scent that hit
>you as soon as you walked through the front door. Hospitals nowadays don't
>have it. So my questions are: what was that smell? and what happened to
>it?
It was probably iodoform. That was a commonly used antiseptic, but it's been
replaced by other stuff because it's carcinogenic.
Les
Jose (JRDelirio) Diaz
Bob Kaufman wrote in message ...
"Ditto" was specifically the one that worked on the basis of using a really
thick purple "carbon", wherein the paper would be laid face-in around the
drum, and an alcohol-spirits based solvent would transfer that to the copy
paper. Methinks it was a brand-name.
I absolutely loved them fumes.
Another version involved cutting a *stencil* on a sort of green tissue, with
your typewriter set to strike w/o ribbon (A great big huge *manual*
late-60's office-grade Olivetti... finest writing technology I ever got my
hands on including this one. You *KNEW* you were producing an important
document!) and wrapping it around an inked drum.
>
>
Cliff H.
small offset printer jobs.
A few months ago I was helping wife's church evaluate a new duplicating
machine. The sales person was demoing the machine and it hit me like a ton
of bricks, its a ditto machine. The machine is known as a Risograph
www.riso.com and it uses the same basic technology as a ditto machine.
Instead of using those flimsy master sheets it had a scanner and used
thermal imaging to create the master.
You placed your original in the scanner like a copier and it created a
template and placed it on the drum automatically. You could then proof your
work and then print as many copies as you wanted from the master. The
machine ran at a max speed of 130 and was the size of a small desktop copier
or large laser printer. It also had a option to hook it up to your computer
like a printer.
For runs over say a hundred it was cheaper than using a copier. Smaller
runs are not economically feasible because each master costs a certain
amount to make.
It could use a number of colors of ink. To print more than one color you
replaced the imaging unit with another color, scanned an original that only
had the parts of the page that you wanted that color and then ran the paper
through again. Repeat for each color. You couldn't do real color printing
because when you put the paper back in, it was hard to get it registered
just right and the machine tended to drift as it printed.
The used masters would then go into a waste hopper that you emptied when the
machine said it was full. The master would only be tossed at the start of
the next job. So if you needed more copies you could just walk up to the
machine and hit print.
And sorry the pages came out hardly smelling at all. I tried.
Chris
<20000911212822...@nso-fh.aol.com>, lalb...@aol.com
(Lalbert1) wrote:
That, and/or carbolic acid, as I understand it.
--
Did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Did you exchange a walk on part in the real world,
For a lead role in a cage?
Michael Lorton
> Back in elemtary (grammar) school, one of my fondest memories is taking a
> deep whiff of a stack of freshly dittoed handouts. I have two questions
> pertaining to this:
>
> 1. What horrible things was I doing to my body?
You have six months to live.
> 2. What happened to the beloved ditto machine?
Replaced by the Xerox (tm) machine.
M.
Gina Marie Wade
>
>It was probably iodoform. That was a commonly used antiseptic, but it's been
>replaced by other stuff because it's carcinogenic.
>
>Les
>
Really? I had iodoform gauze packing my c-section incision after it
opened three times a day for two months. Does that mean I will
probably get cancer on my belly?
YiKES!
Gina Marie
Joe Shimkus
gmw...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
Perhaps you actually had iodoPHOR as opposed to iodoFORM? Iodophor is a
sanitizer and is popular in homebrewing as, when used at the recommended
concentration, it doesn't require rinsing. Or at least it was popular;
I haven't brewed in a number of years.
- Joe
--
PGP Key (DH/DSS): http://www.shimkus.com/public_key.asc
or send e-mail with subject "Send PGP key".
PGP Fingerprint: 89B4 52DA CF10 EE03 02AD 9134 21C6 2A68 CE52 EE1A
Randy Poe
<gutterbo...@home.com> wrote:
My last recollection of the old ditto machine: ca. 1978, when as a
grad student I had to use the machine for class handouts, but there
was a perfectly good xerox machine for use by faculty (students at
$.10 per copy). I remember one office on campus (publishers of a
newsletter) that had a duplicating machine that could create a ditto
master from a black and white copy.
My guess is that xeroxing, padon, photocopying, got more economical.
- Randy
Randy Poe
wrote:
>While we're waxing nostaglic about smells, whatever happened to "hospital
>smell"? Growing up in the 60's, I remember that hospitals had their own
>distinctive smell, a sharp but not altogether unpleasant scent that hit
>you as soon as you walked through the front door. Hospitals nowadays don't
>have it. So my questions are: what was that smell? and what happened to
>it?
Veterinarians' offices still have it. Ask any large otherwise-fierce
dog who is reduced to trembling putty when he crosses the threshold.
- Randy
Bob Ward
Actually, these are two distinct, different processes. Mimeograph
uses a cut stencil, and black ink, and the "Ditto" process is a spirit
duplicator, which used alcohol to dampen and transfer ink from a
special carbon-paper master.
If it's black ink, it's mimeo - if it's purple, it's ditto
See http://www.comptons.com/encyclopedia/ARTICLES/0050/00571392_A.html
Mimeograph
The stencil duplicator uses a stencil consisting of a coated fiber
sheet through which ink is pressed. Using a typewriter with the ribbon
shifted out of the way so that the keys do not strike it, the
information to be duplicated is typed on the stencil. The keys cut the
coating on the stencil and expose the fiber base, making it possible
for ink to pass through it. Corrections can be made with a sealing
fluid that permits retyping over the patched error. Handwriting or
drawings can be added to the stencil with a hand stylus, or smooth
metal point.
In the more common type of stencil duplicator, the stencil is
fastened to the ink-saturated surface of a hollow, rotating cylinder.
As the cylinder rotates, ink flows through the cuts in the stencil to
the sheets of paper fed under the cylinder. As many as 5,000 copies
can be made from a single stencil. Stencils can be stored for long
periods for reuse.
Spirit Duplicator
The most common type of hectograph uses the so-called spirit process
for making a master copy. The spirit method is also called the direct,
or fluid, process. The master copy is prepared by typewriter,
handwriting, or a computer-printing device that produces a reverse
image using a waxy dye.
The master sheet is then fastened to a rotating drum. Copy sheets
are slightly moistened by an alcohol-based fluid and brought into
direct contact with the master sheet. A small amount of the dye on the
master sheet transferred to the copy sheets results in finished
copies. With this process, multicolor duplication in one operation is
possible. For example, up to 300 copies can be made from one master
sheet.
Jim Ellwanger
> If you're under thirty, don't bother reading any further. This will make
> absolutely no sense to you.
>
> Back in elemtary (grammar) school, one of my fondest memories is taking a
> deep whiff of a stack of freshly dittoed handouts.
I think a few people under 30 might remember that smell...I'm two weeks
away from turning 26, and my elementary school was still using dittos in
the 1984-85 school year. I was in fifth grade then, so I assume people
even younger than me would remember it, too.
I don't know how much longer they continued to use dittos; I went to a
different school for sixth grade, and it was all photocopies from then
on.
--
Jim Ellwanger <trai...@mindspring.com>
<http://trainman1.home.mindspring.com/> takes a back seat to no one.
"...because once you buy a prize, it's yours to keep."
John Gilmer
I suspect the process you are referring is the so-called spirit duplicator.
To explain:
The mimeograph master was paper coated on one side with wax. You "cut" the
master by typing on the wax side with a typewriter with no ribbon. Most
manual typewriters had a selector which would keep the ribbon out of the way
when you were making a mimeograph master.
The master was wrapped around a metal drum that had many, many small holes
and was covered with a felt type material. Ink was placed inside the drum.
In operation the ink would pass through the master in the areas where the
master had been cut by the typewriter. The paper to be printed on was
placed briefly in contact when the drum was rotated. A master could
easily make 100's of copies. The ink was normal printers ink and had the
oil smell of that type of ink.
In the military, orders were printed on such a machine. Thus the
expression "cut some orders." An individual ordered to change his post
needed many copies of his orders because the orders authorized others to
expend government money, material, and transport to help the individual
carry out the orders.
The "spirit duplicator" master was a sheet of coated paper with a "carbon
paper" cover. One wrote or typed on the one side of the coated paper r and
caused the image or text to be transferred to the other side.
The "carbon" was a special ink which was SLIGHTLY soluble in the "spirit" or
denatured alcohol.
To make copies, paper was very slightly wetted with alcohol and placed in
contact with the master. The alcohol dissolved some of the ink and it was
transferred to the paper. Each copy consumed a certain amount of the ink
and only a limited number of copies could be made. They were perfect for
printing tests for a class as 30 copies could be made with no problem.
The fresh copies smelled of alcohol and I suspect this is what you remember.
Various colors were available but the most common was a purple shade which
had the capability of making the most copies.
"Bob Kaufman" <gutterbo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:azev5.31760$Qx4.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com...
Lalbert1
The following is from a data sheet about iodoform:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
IODOFORM
MSDS Number: I3480 --- Effective Date: 11/17/99
1. Product Identification
Synonyms: Triiodomethane; methane, triiodo-
CAS No.: 75-47-8
Molecular Weight: 393.71
Chemical Formula: CHI3
2. Composition/Information on Ingredients
Ingredient CAS No Percent Hazardous
Iodoform 75-47-8 99 - 100% Yes
3. Hazards Identification
Emergency Overview
WARNING! HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED, INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. CAUSES
IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. AFFECTS CARDIOVASCULAR SYSTEM,
CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM, LIVER AND KIDNEYS.
Health Rating: 3 - Severe (Life)
Flammability Rating: 0 - None
Reactivity Rating: 1 - Slight
Contact Rating: 2 - Moderate
Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES
Storage Color Code: Blue (Health)
Potential Health Effects
Inhalation:
Causes irritation to the respiratory tract. Symptoms may include coughing,
shortness of breath. High concentrations can cause pulmonary edema.
Ingestion:
Causes burns of gastrointestinal tract. May cause vomiting and all degrees of
cerebral depression or excitation, including delirium, hallucinations, coma,
and death. A rapid pulse with or without a fever is characteristic. High
concentrations applied to the skin have caused damage to the heart, liver, and
kidneys.
Skin Contact:
May cause irritation or dermatitis. Can be absorbed through skin and produce
systemic effects; symptoms may parallel ingestion.
Eye Contact:
May cause severe irritation, redness, pain. Visual disturbances or impairment
may occur.
Chronic Exposure:
May cause "iodism" on prolonged absorption. Symptoms are skin rash, headache
and skin eruptions in severe cases.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or impaired respiratory function may
be more susceptible to the effects of the substance.
4. First Aid Measures
Inhalation:
Remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If
breathing is difficult, give oxygen. Get medical attention.
Ingestion:
Induce vomiting immediately as directed by medical personnel. Never give
anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Get medical attention immediately.
Skin Contact:
Immediately flush skin with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes while
removing contaminated clothing and shoes. Call a physician, immediately. Wash
clothing before reuse.
Eye Contact:
Immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes, lifting
lower and upper eyelids occasionally. Get medical attention immediately.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
All of the above seems to describe *pure* iodoform, and the stuff you were
packed with may have been a very weak solution. Besides, you were probably
dressed for the occasion and were observing the safety rules listed above (Lab
Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES). You were,
weren't you?
Les
Bob Blaylock
>
> In article <azev5.31760$Qx4.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com>, "Bob Kaufman"
> <gutterbo...@home.com> writes:
> .
> .
> >Back in elemtary (grammar) school, one of my fondest memories is
> >taking a deep whiff of a stack of freshly dittoed handouts. I
> >have two questions pertaining to this:
> >
> >1. What horrible things was I doing to my body?
[Showing an egg] This is your brain.
[Breaking egg into skillet, scrambling and frying it] This is
your brain on ditto solvent.
Any questions?
> >2. What happened to the beloved ditto machine?
> >
> >
>
> You are referring to the mimeograph machine. They haven't been made in a long
> time, but there are some still in use and they probably can be found in
> schools. I read somewhere that parts are no longer available, so the ditto
> machine will disappear into history very soon.
The machine I knew as a "ditto" machine was not a mimeograph at all
(which uses a master with holes where ink is pushed through it where the
image is to appear on the copy), but a "spirit duplicator", which uses a
master produced with a carbon-paper-like material, from which some of
the ink on the master is transferred to each copy.
I suspect that the driving force behind the decline of both mimeogaphs
and spirit duplicators is the rise of the electrostatic photocopier.
While most reasonably-priced photocopiers are considerably slower than a
good hand-cranked spirit duplicator, they are much easier to operate,
more generally useful, and produce better-quality copies.
--
I hunt down and kill spammers and similar net-vermin. Do not send
any form of advertising, bulk email, chain letters, or similar
garbage to me, unless you wish to be my next prey.
Web Site: <http://www.impulse.net/~thebob>
Email: bob-blayl...@usa.net
To email me, remove ".nospam" from the address.
Help fight fraud and spamming; support the NoAdvantage boycott:
<http://www.impulse.net/~thebob/NoAdvantage/>
Colin Rosenthal
Are we talking _Gestetner_ machines here? I think we used one to
distribute the unofficial school newsletter - especially the issue
that was banned for a vicious satire on the Deputy Rector and had
to be withdrawn, pulped, and then reissued in samizdat ...
--
Colin Rosenthal
Astrophysics Institute
University of Oslo
Greg Goss
>1. What horrible things was I doing to my body?
I have no idea. Somewhere around my mother's place (unless it got
lost when she moved in 94) is a ditto pad -- a homemade ditto machine
with a gel layer in a wood frame instead of a cranked cylinder.
But I forget the recipe for the gel (that was glued to the back of the
frame.
>2. What happened to the beloved ditto machine?
I get blurry between the ditto (Never knew the formula, presumably
soaked a few percent of a dye onto each successive page.) and the
gestetner which soaked ink (?) through (?) a cut stencil. Either of
them required a hand or typewritten original.
Cheap photocopying killed 'em both. I still remember the THERMAL
photocoyier at my mother's law office before they got the xerox clone
(really an IBM). Run the orignial through the top slot, take the page
produced there, and run that through the bottom (developer) slot to
get a brown copy of the original. Don't let the copy get too warm.
Exposing a drum to light to drain off charge, and using the remaining
charge to hold black vinyl in place until you can melt it onto paper
works so much better for general purposes.
Deborah
>Mimeograph
>The stencil duplicator uses a stencil consisting of a coated fiber
>sheet through which ink is pressed. Using a typewriter with the ribbon
>shifted out of the way so that the keys do not strike it, the
>information to be duplicated is typed on the stencil. The keys cut the
>coating on the stencil and expose the fiber base, making it possible
>for ink to pass through it. Corrections can be made with a sealing
>fluid that permits retyping over the patched error. Handwriting or
>drawings can be added to the stencil with a hand stylus, or smooth
>metal point.
And now for a joke from the Harvard Divinity School Denominational Slur
Handbook:
"When a Roman Catholic church burns down, they risk their lives to rescue
the reserved host...
"When a Jewish synagogue burns down, they risk their lives to rescue the
torah scrolls...
"When a Unitarian-Universalist church burns down, they risk their lives to
rescue the coffee pot and the mimeograph."
Somehow, this joke doesn't work as well if you substitute "photocopier" for
"mimeograph."
Best regards from Deborah
FAQ file: http://members.aol.com/SJF1959/index.html
Found in the in-box: http://in.box.listbot.com
N Jill Marsh
> Are we talking _Gestetner_ machines here? I think we used one to
> distribute the unofficial school newsletter - especially the issue
> that was banned for a vicious satire on the Deputy Rector and had
> to be withdrawn, pulped, and then reissued in samizdat ...
I'm not sure if _Gestetner_ machines are ditto or mimeograph, but older
adults in this area use _Gestetner_ as a generic term for old fashioned
copiers. My mother-in-law had one in her basement until last summer, she
kept describing it to me, I kept saying "ditto" and she kept insisting
that it was just a _Gestetner_! That ended up being the name brand of
the copying machine, but it was in too rough shape for me to get it working.
nj"_Gestetner!'s a great word"m
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the ancient Greek Tragedies it was an inronclad rule that all the real
rough stuff should take place off stage, and I shall follow this admirable
principle."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>Colin Rosenthal (col...@toliman.uio.no) wrote:
>
>> Are we talking _Gestetner_ machines here? I think we used one to
>> distribute the unofficial school newsletter - especially the issue
>> that was banned for a vicious satire on the Deputy Rector and had
>> to be withdrawn, pulped, and then reissued in samizdat ...
>
>I'm not sure if _Gestetner_ machines are ditto or mimeograph, but older
>adults in this area use _Gestetner_ as a generic term for old fashioned
>copiers. My mother-in-law had one in her basement until last summer, she
>kept describing it to me, I kept saying "ditto" and she kept insisting
>that it was just a _Gestetner_! That ended up being the name brand of
>the copying machine, but it was in too rough shape for me to get it working.
>
>nj"_Gestetner!'s a great word"m
Gesundheit!
Many, many years ago in our office we had a thermographic Gestetner
machine. A page would be typed, and placed on a drum which, when set
in motion "cut" the stencil. If the type was too dense on the page, it
burned right through on the stencil & had to be redone. Would the
typed page have been done "blind," without a ribbon for this part?
Regardless, the stencil then got run through the separate copying part
of the gadget...either crank turned for a few copies, or electric "on"
for a bunch of them. I do remember that this part of the process
involved inking.
Boron
Marc Fleury
>"Bob Kaufman" <gutterbo...@home.com> wrote:
>
>> If you're under thirty, don't bother reading any further. This will make
>> absolutely no sense to you.
>I think a few people under 30 might remember that smell...I'm two weeks
>away from turning 26, and my elementary school was still using dittos in
>the 1984-85 school year. I was in fifth grade then, so I assume people
>even younger than me would remember it, too.
My highschool was still using them at least as recently as 1988.
-- Marc.
Dana Carpender
Bob Kaufman wrote:
Have no idea about the former, but little doubt about the latter -- it fell
to the advancement of the photocopier.
Dana
Dana Carpender
Lalbert1 wrote:
Pretty sure there was a difference between a mimeo and a ditto. Mimeos involved a
stencil, IIRC, that was fixed on a drum and went round and round, printing copies.
A ditto used a carbon-like thing, and the printing was purple. Or did I switch
these two? Anyway, my mom taught when I was in jr. high, and I remember her using
both of these.
Dana
Dana Carpender
Lalbert1 wrote:
As was hexocholorophene, which was the big antiseptic fad of my childhood. It was
ubiquitous, sorta like antibacterial soap is now -- until they found out it was
dangerous. Hate to think how many times I washed my hands with PhisoHex...
Dana
Dana Carpender
Greg Goss wrote:
> "Bob Kaufman" <gutterbo...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >1. What horrible things was I doing to my body?
>
> I have no idea. Somewhere around my mother's place (unless it got
> lost when she moved in 94) is a ditto pad -- a homemade ditto machine
> with a gel layer in a wood frame instead of a cranked cylinder.
>
> But I forget the recipe for the gel (that was glued to the back of the
> frame.
>
> >2. What happened to the beloved ditto machine?
>
> I get blurry between the ditto (Never knew the formula, presumably
> soaked a few percent of a dye onto each successive page.) and the
> gestetner which soaked ink (?) through (?) a cut stencil. Either of
> them required a hand or typewritten original.
>
> Cheap photocopying killed 'em both.
Computers probably get used a lot now, too. If I were a teacher composing
a test on my home PC, I'd simply print off however many copies I needed,
and have done with it.
> I still remember the THERMAL
> photocoyier at my mother's law office before they got the xerox clone
> (really an IBM). Run the orignial through the top slot, take the page
> produced there, and run that through the bottom (developer) slot to
> get a brown copy of the original. Don't let the copy get too warm.
I'm still using a thermal TandyFax, believe it or not.
Dana
Dana Carpender
Deborah wrote:
Bob Ward <rcw...@gte.net> writes:>Mimeograph
>The stencil duplicator uses a stencil consisting of a coated fiber
>sheet through which ink is pressed. Using a typewriter with the ribbon
>shifted out of the way so that the keys do not strike it, the
>information to be duplicated is typed on the stencil. The keys cut the
>coating on the stencil and expose the fiber base, making it possible
>for ink to pass through it. Corrections can be made with a sealing
>fluid that permits retyping over the patched error. Handwriting or
>drawings can be added to the stencil with a hand stylus, or smooth
>metal point.And now for a joke from the Harvard Divinity School Denominational Slur
Handbook:"When a Roman Catholic church burns down, they risk their lives to rescue
the reserved host..."When a Jewish synagogue burns down, they risk their lives to rescue the
torah scrolls..."When a Unitarian-Universalist church burns down, they risk their lives to
rescue the coffee pot and the mimeograph."Somehow, this joke doesn't work as well if you substitute "photocopier" for
"mimeograph."
Similar UU joke:
When Baptists go to church on Sunday, they take their Bibles
When Episcopalians go to church, they take their Book of Common Prayer.
When UUs go to church, they take the Sunday New York Times...
Dana (who saw an article a few years back that claimed that of all denomiations,
UUs were the most likely to be highly educated.)
Lalbert1
writes:
PhisoHex - I was trying to remember the name of that soap. I also used to use
that stuff several times a day. I was a bacteriologist for a while and was
forever washing my hands with PhisoHex. I even used it at home. The
hexochlorphene was replaced with something I can't remember, and the product
was repackaged as PhisoDerm.
Les
Tamex
<trai...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>In article <azev5.31760$Qx4.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com>, "Bob
>Kaufman" <gutterbo...@home.com> wrote:
>
>> If you're under thirty, don't bother reading any further. This will make
>> absolutely no sense to you.
>>
>> Back in elemtary (grammar) school, one of my fondest memories is taking a
>> deep whiff of a stack of freshly dittoed handouts.
>
>I think a few people under 30 might remember that smell...I'm two weeks
>away from turning 26, and my elementary school was still using dittos in
>the 1984-85 school year. I was in fifth grade then, so I assume people
>even younger than me would remember it, too.
>
>I don't know how much longer they continued to use dittos; I went to a
>different school for sixth grade, and it was all photocopies from then
>on.
Yes, I remember it, and I'm only 24. My sister is 21, and went to the
same school, and I'm sure she remembers them, too. They were using
that stupid thing (which must have been on its very last legs, since
the copies were often illegible, and I know the thing often broke
down, because that's when they would break down and use the
photocopier) as recently as _1990_, when we moved. For all I know,
they are still using it. I doubt it, but you never know. I have not
seen "ditto" since then.
--
Tamex
"When I think back to all the crap I learned in high school,
it's a wonder I can think at all."
**remove Tricky Dick to reply by e-mail**
John Galt
"Lalbert1" <lalb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000911203705...@nso-fh.aol.com...
>
> >If you're under thirty, don't bother reading any further. This will make
> >absolutely no sense to you.
> >
> >Back in elemtary (grammar) school, one of my fondest memories is taking a
> >pertaining to this:
> >
> >
> >
>
long
> time, but there are some still in use and they probably can be found in
> schools. I read somewhere that parts are no longer available, so the
ditto
> machine will disappear into history very soon.
Indeed they are still in use in schools. I taught at a community college a
few years ago and I typed notes, assignments and tests up on my computer at
home, printed them on a dot-matrix printer and reproduced them on the ditto
machine. A LOT faster than Xerox and Xerox cost several cents a copy and
ditto was practically free. The masters were only used once so the results
were very legible. (As a student I detested the quality of handouts I used
to get.) The main reason was cost, we were allocated only so much for
Xerox. At the same time the University was paying guys that coach grown men
to throw balls though hoops $125K per year. We could have made *lots* of
copies for $125K!
Dana Carpender
John Galt wrote:
>
> Indeed they are still in use in schools. I taught at a community college a
> few years ago and I typed notes, assignments and tests up on my computer at
> home, printed them on a dot-matrix printer and reproduced them on the ditto
> machine. A LOT faster than Xerox and Xerox cost several cents a copy and
> ditto was practically free. The masters were only used once so the results
> were very legible. (As a student I detested the quality of handouts I used
> to get.) The main reason was cost, we were allocated only so much for
> Xerox. At the same time the University was paying guys that coach grown men
> to throw balls though hoops $125K per year. We could have made *lots* of
> copies for $125K!
Speaking of which, things are hot here in B'ton in the wake of Bobby Knight's
dismissal. Personally, I fall into the "about damn time" group. But the kid
who reported that Knight had grabbed him has had death threats.
What the hell is wrong with people, that they take a game and the people who get
paid to play or teach it so seriously? Of all the trivial bullshit to get
worked up about, this has got to be the dumbest.
Dana
JmG
>Dana (who saw an article a few years back that claimed that of all denomiations,
>UUs were the most likely to be highly educated.)
The Times has bigger words.
J
JmG
>As was hexocholorophene, which was the big antiseptic fad of my childhood. It was
>ubiquitous, sorta like antibacterial soap is now -- until they found out it was
>dangerous. Hate to think how many times I washed my hands with PhisoHex...
Uh oh. So, now what? What's going to happen to those of us who went through
bottles of that stuff as kids?
J
David Zeiger
>Uh oh. So, now what? What's going to happen to those of us who went through
>bottles of that stuff as kids?
Eventually, you die.
--
David Zeiger dze...@the-institute.net
Whenever I find myself in a difficult situation, I ask myself "What
Would Jesus Do?" The mental image of my opposition being cast into
pits of hellfire for all eternity *is* comforting, but probably not
what the inventors of the phrase had in mind.
Lalbert1
<jmg...@bestweb.net> writes:
Probably nothing will happen. The stuff was most likely tested on mice and
they are the ones who will suffer from all that washing. But it evens out; the
mice get all the new medicines years before we do.
Les
deepstblu
>
>
> I'm not sure if _Gestetner_ machines are ditto or mimeograph, but older
> adults in this area use _Gestetner_ as a generic term for old fashioned
> copiers.
I'm sure that the folks who are out there trying to sell Gestetner's
current line of copiers, faxes and such are thrilled beyond belief to be
synonymous with "old fashioned." They do, however, 'fess up to their
heritage:
"In the late 19th century, when people were laboriously transcribing
documents by hand, David Gestetner created the first stencil duplicator,
which enabled in-house, multi-copy document reproduction for the first
time. And thus began Gestetner's long history as an innovator in the
office equipment industry."
(from "About Gestetner" on http://www.gestetnerusa.com. The same page
says that Gestetner is now owned by Savin, but the international site,
http://www.gestetner.com, says it's part of the Ricoh group. You can't
keep the tentacles of the Great Combine straight without a scorecard.)
> nj"_Gestetner!'s a great word"m
Fans of great radio commercials: you can just *hear* in your head Dick
Orkin saying that name, can't you? "Mom, Dad's not here anymore. He ran
off with Mrs. Gestetner and they're living in sin in Egg Harbor."
Rick B., LOL at the very thought
Jake Schmidt
news:azev5.31760$Qx4.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com...
> absolutely no sense to you.
>
> Back in elemtary (grammar) school, one of my fondest memories is taking a
> deep whiff of a stack of freshly dittoed handouts. I have two questions
> pertaining to this:
At work, we have a Diazo blueprint machine as an extreme form of a backup in
case our regular layout copy machine goes down, and it smells quite awful if
you ask me. I can't remember what the mimeographed papers smelled like.
Anyone know if they're anything like the blueprint copier, or are these
completely different things?
> 1. What horrible things was I doing to my body?
> 2. What happened to the beloved ditto machine?
>
> TIA,
> Bob
--
Jake Schmidt
Remove nothing to reply--this IS my
correct address...
StarChaser_Tyger
>At work, we have a Diazo blueprint machine as an extreme form of a backup in
>case our regular layout copy machine goes down, and it smells quite awful if
>you ask me. I can't remember what the mimeographed papers smelled like.
>Anyone know if they're anything like the blueprint copier, or are these
>completely different things?
The blueprint probably uses an ammonia solution of some sort. As a
kid, my father took me to work one day and showed me the blueprint
machine he used, and I said it smelled like pee...
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information,
and information on which artists do and do not want their
work posted! http://web.tampabay.rr.com/starchsr/
Address no longer munged for the inconvienence of spammers.
(Yes, this really is me.)
GrapeApe
>>bottles of that stuff as kids?
Everything causes cancer. Including radiation and chemotherapy and old age. You
are going to die.
Al Yellon
>Speaking of which, things are hot here in B'ton in the wake of Bobby
Knight's
>dismissal. Personally, I fall into the "about damn time" group. But the
kid
>who reported that Knight had grabbed him has had death threats.
>
>What the hell is wrong with people, that they take a game and the people
who get
>paid to play or teach it so seriously? Of all the trivial bullshit to get
>worked up about, this has got to be the dumbest.
>
I'm a sports fan, but I'm with you here, Dana.
How a man could have had such a hold on a community, or state, while acting
the way he did, is beyond me.
What's even worse is how many people support him.
And I didn't watch it, but supposedly he was on ESPN tonight presenting "his
side of the story".
What "side"? There's no side here!
--
***********************************
AY-- Charter Member, DBFC
(http://www.dbfc.org)
***********************************
GrapeApe
>At work, we have a Diazo blueprint machine as an extreme form of a backup
>in
>case our regular layout copy machine goes down, and it smells quite awful
>if
>you ask me. I can't remember what the mimeographed papers smelled like.
>Anyone know if they're anything like the blueprint copier, or are these
>completely different things?
diazo is an amonnia process isnt it?
Ditto smelled pretty nice, but I thought it was an alcohol solvent, nothing
more. But perhaps carbon Tet or whatever it is the dry cleaning industry uses
was involved.
Geoduck
<tvdir...@REMOVETHISdbfc.org> wrote:
>Dana Carpender wrote in message <39BEA640...@kiva.net>...
>>Speaking of which, things are hot here in B'ton in the wake of Bobby
>Knight's
>>dismissal. Personally, I fall into the "about damn time" group. But the
>kid
>>who reported that Knight had grabbed him has had death threats.
>>
>>What the hell is wrong with people, that they take a game and the people
>who get
>>paid to play or teach it so seriously? Of all the trivial bullshit to get
>>worked up about, this has got to be the dumbest.
>>
>
>I'm a sports fan, but I'm with you here, Dana.
>
>How a man could have had such a hold on a community, or state, while acting
>the way he did, is beyond me.
(snip)
It's simple. This is Indiana we're talking about here. It's either
watch Bobby Knight throw tantrums, or go out and watch the corn grow.
Or is it wheat in Indiana?
--
Geoduck
Love me, love my website:
http://www.olywa.net/cook
Joseph Nebus
>I think a few people under 30 might remember that smell...I'm two weeks
>away from turning 26, and my elementary school was still using dittos in
>the 1984-85 school year. I was in fifth grade then, so I assume people
>even younger than me would remember it, too.
>I don't know how much longer they continued to use dittos; I went to a
>different school for sixth grade, and it was all photocopies from then
>on.
I can almost, ahem, ditto that experience; they were used in
my sixth grade, 1983-84, and everybody thrilled in the scent, which I've
described as "Warm mayonaise," and quite a few people at least go along
with, as long as it lasted. I also went to a different school from
'84 on, and they... I believe had mimeographs the first year I was there,
but it was a bigger building and the scent was almost gone by the time
we got them. By 1986 we had photocopiers and that was the end of fun.
Still, despite a lot of discussion about this, the big questions
haven't gone answered: What caused that wonderful, wonderful smell; and
what cancer is it going to cause?
I don't know what caused the smell, but will open the betting
pool by saying it'll be linked to cancer of the sinuses, kidneys, and
liver.
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ctc...@my-deja.com
grap...@aol.comjunk (GrapeApe) wrote:
> Everything causes cancer. Including radiation and chemotherapy and
old age. You
> are going to die.
No, don't do it! Dying causes cancer!
Xho
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Greg Goss
>Fans of great radio commercials: you can just *hear* in your head Dick
>Orkin saying that name, can't you? "Mom, Dad's not here anymore. He ran
>off with Mrs. Gestetner and they're living in sin in Egg Harbor."
One of the problems of a great campaign is that management always
likes to change things.
In BC, Canada, everyone in my generation had the name of a local
office-supply store burned into our consciousness, including the
spelling. Then they renamed themselves...
"You got your Bee ee double-en. That's Benn You got your Benn. you
got your Dee. You got your O R F. That's Dorf. You'v got Benndorf.
"...etc.
I lived out of town, and the name stuck with me. Why would they
change it? Who's ever heard of IKON?
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>snipped>
>However, these are university student "protesting" (read: tearing up the campus
>fountain, hanging the kid who reported Knight in effigy, making death threats,
>tearing side mirrors off of cars belonging to people who have absolutely nothing
>to do with the matter, etc), and one assumes that they could be entertaining
>themselves in the usual way of college students -- drinking beer, smoking dope,
>getting laid, occasionally going to class or studying, working out at the
>university health club, going to the local night clubs, seeing the various shows
>on campus, whatever. The folks in Bedford or Martinsville may have the excuse
>of boredom, but the kids on campus don't.
>
>Dana
Sports is a big money maker on the college level and bad behavior &
action involving it are often deliberately ignored and in some cases,
even encouraged as showing "spirit" and loyalty. One need not look far
to see athletes who have had serious academic difficulties or even
criminal allegations disregarded or even hidden to protect a team.
Coaches, too, are allowed to get away with plenty, as in Knight's
case, but he is not the only example, just a very public one. I do
believe that if Knight's W/L ratio were worse, he might have had a
much shorter tenure in Indiana.
I think part of what caused the student uprising is an attitude that
such things are tolerated in the name of sports. Many a pep rally has
had a rival's mascot image burned or hanged and anything that opposes
the team in way, shape or form is deemed an enemy & worthy of hatred &
scorn. These guys just took their pep rally out of the stadium on out
onto the campus.
I hate such behavior. I hate all the false morality and high hatted
indignation that turns around & allows Knight to coach, Spreewell to
play, Tyson to box, dopers to return repeatedly to the field.
What I wonder about is the cause of it...is it just greed or is is
some sense that these big bad boys of sports are especially admired,
not just for being good at their sport, but very specifically for
being mean & nasty bastards?
And don't get me started about parents at the sidelines of kiddie team
sports.
Boron
Al Yellon
<snip>
>What I wonder about is the cause of it...is it just greed or is is
>some sense that these big bad boys of sports are especially admired,
>not just for being good at their sport, but very specifically for
>being mean & nasty bastards?
I think that is part of it. And it breeds on itself. Years ago, talented
individuals didn't think they had to or could get away with acting this way.
Part of it is the money, even at the college level. Players are brought up
now to think that they're somehow better than "ordinary people" because of
their status as athletes. I'm a sports fan (primarily baseball) and I can
appreciate the play on the field. Off the field, though, it's clear to me
that some (not all, certainly, but a growing minority) professional and
college athletes are, in the words of George W. Bush, "major league
a$$holes".
>
>And don't get me started about parents at the sidelines of kiddie team
>sports.
>
Which has already caused one death and just the other day, an incident
involving a former major league baseball player.
See:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2000/0912/739241.html
Rick Howard
Boron Elgar <Kalk...@bwu.edu> wrote in message
news:39bfb3cf...@news.carroll.com...
> Sports is a big money maker on the college level and bad behavior &
> action involving it are often deliberately ignored and in some cases,
> even encouraged as showing "spirit" and loyalty. One need not look far
> to see athletes who have had serious academic difficulties or even
> criminal allegations disregarded or even hidden to protect a team.
>
> Coaches, too, are allowed to get away with plenty, as in Knight's
> case, but he is not the only example, just a very public one. I do
> believe that if Knight's W/L ratio were worse, he might have had a
> much shorter tenure in Indiana.
>
> I think part of what caused the student uprising is an attitude that
> such things are tolerated in the name of sports. Many a pep rally has
> had a rival's mascot image burned or hanged and anything that opposes
> the team in way, shape or form is deemed an enemy & worthy of hatred &
> scorn. These guys just took their pep rally out of the stadium on out
> onto the campus.
Woody Hays (longtime football coach at Ohio State) was
the epitome of "the opponent is the enemy" school of coaching. When
he was haranguing his players to beat the other team he sometimes
would call the other team "the Japs".
In what turned out to be his last game as a coach, Hays ran onto the
playing field and to slug an opposing player who had intercepted a pass.
Barry Nos Sher
wrote:
>
>I think part of what caused the student uprising is an attitude that
>such things are tolerated in the name of sports. Many a pep rally has
>had a rival's mascot image burned or hanged and anything that opposes
>the team in way, shape or form is deemed an enemy & worthy of hatred &
>scorn. These guys just took their pep rally out of the stadium on out
>onto the campus.
>
I feel that burning a mascot in effigy is not as bad as burning an
administrator in effigy. Burning an administrator in effigy is not bad
as burning a student in effigy (administrators are paid to make
unpopular decisions). But even burning a student in effigy is (to me)
speech. But threatening a student--to me that is the crime of battery.
Dana Carpender
Barry Nos Sher wrote:
The boy and his two brothers -- they're triplets, and enrolled as freshmen
together this fall -- have had to leave school. They're all transferring
elsewhere; where I do not know. It's a damn shame, since they live in
town, and could have gone to a fine school close to home.
What kills me is that a few years back it was discovered that a couple of
underclassmen had been dousing cats with gasoline, lighting them on fire,
and watching them run around screaming, for fun. They were condemned, and
rightly so, but the level of anger, so far as I could tell, didn't rise as
high against these two psychos as they did against a kid whose only crime
was to refuse to put up with being manhandled by an arrogant coach.
Dana
Briar Rose
>Jim Ellwanger <trai...@mindspring.com> writes:
>>I think a few people under 30 might remember that smell...I'm two weeks
>>away from turning 26, and my elementary school was still using dittos in
>>the 1984-85 school year. I was in fifth grade then, so I assume people
>>even younger than me would remember it, too.
>my sixth grade, 1983-84,
The elementary school I TAed at in 1990 was still using
a spirit duplicator. I loved the scent, but "warm mayonnaise"
would seem to smell more like vomit than duplicating fluid
to me. I always thought it smelled like... well, like
solvent. Sort of alcoholy, with a very heavy licorice
smell and undertones of mint.
:) Connie-Lynne
--
"In this country, we have eight different kinds of Coke,
but only two political parties!"
--Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
Glenn Rice
>
> The boy and his two brothers -- they're triplets, and enrolled as freshmen
> together this fall -- have had to leave school. They're all transferring
> elsewhere; where I do not know. It's a damn shame, since they live in
> town, and could have gone to a fine school close to home.
I'm not defending BK's actions, but the kid was a punk. He acts like a
brat, gets called on the floor for it, & a coach is fired. I feel sorry
for his brothers, though
Dana Carpender
Glenn Rice wrote:
However, the kid was *not* one of Knight's players. He wasn't on campus,
either. The incident took place outside a restaurant off campus. I would have
had zero problems if Knight had growled, "That's Mr. Knight to you!" and walked
on. Instead, he grabbed the kid hard enough to leave marks, and whirled him
around. I don't care if he's freakin' royalty, he doesn't have the right to lay
hands on a strange kid because he's annoyed that he wasn't treated with the
respect he seems to think that everyone owes him, and he owes no one. He
doesn't have the right to lay hands on *anyone* in anger, *ever*, *period*.
This had been made clear to him, but apparently he felt he was above it.
Personally, I think he should have been fired when he threw a vase of flowers at
a campus office worker. Actually, I think he should have been arrested for
assault when he threw a vase of flowers at the office worker, and been fired as
well.
This incident was not major in and of itself. But it was *utterly* indicative
of Knight's sense of entitlement to run his temper all over the world, and the
fact that despite having been warned that he was on a very short leash, he was
incapable of keeping his hands to himself.
I hope he doesn't find another job. If he does, and he does this sort of thing
again, which seems inevitable, I hope the victim sues whatever institution hires
him for harboring the man when he's a clear and present danger.
Dana
Chris
Dana Carpender <dcar...@kiva.net> wrote:
>
>
>Lalbert1 wrote:
>
>> In article <9mbtrs0s5eks1heq1...@4ax.com>, JmG
>> <jmg...@bestweb.net> writes:
>>
>> >Dana Carpender <dcar...@kiva.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>As was hexocholorophene, which was the big antiseptic fad of my childhood.
>> >It was
>> >>ubiquitous, sorta like antibacterial soap is now -- until they found out it
>> >was
>> >>dangerous. Hate to think how many times I washed my hands with PhisoHex...
>> >
>> >Uh oh. So, now what? What's going to happen to those of us who went through
>> >bottles of that stuff as kids?
>>
>> Probably nothing will happen. The stuff was most likely tested on mice and
>> they are the ones who will suffer from all that washing.
>
>Years ago, a friend of mine asserted that we didn't need to ban saccharine and
>tobacco and such; what we really needed to do was to start breeding
>cancer-resistant white rats. Of course, she still smokes three packs a day...
"I'm not in denial. I've never been in denial. I don't know what
denial is! I've got...." etc., etc.
--
The course of every intellectual, if he pursues his
journey long and unflinchingly enough, ends in the
obvious, from which the nonintelectuals have never
stirred. --- Aldous Huxley
Jake Schmidt
news:39BFF37F...@kiva.net...
<snip>
> The boy and his two brothers -- they're triplets, and enrolled as freshmen
> together this fall -- have had to leave school. They're all transferring
> elsewhere; where I do not know. It's a damn shame, since they live in
> town, and could have gone to a fine school close to home.
That is sad and a damn shame. What I find even sadder is that several
basketball players threatened to leave the college because of the whole
ordeal. Whatever happened to choosing a school based on academics instead of
the name of the basketball coach? One gets the impression that if BK's next
job is coaching a junior college team, many of the players would transfer to
that school.
> What kills me is that a few years back it was discovered that a couple of
> underclassmen had been dousing cats with gasoline, lighting them on fire,
> and watching them run around screaming, for fun. They were condemned, and
> rightly so, but the level of anger, so far as I could tell, didn't rise as
> high against these two psychos as they did against a kid whose only crime
> was to refuse to put up with being manhandled by an arrogant coach.
It's only too bad that Indiana put up with it for so long. Did they forgot
the meaning of the term "zero tolerance" like BK did? No, scratch that--it
seems that BK never knew the meaning of the term. Pretty self-explanatory if
you ask me...
> Dana
Michael Lorton
> "Dana Carpender" <dcar...@kiva.net> wrote in message
> news:39BFF37F...@kiva.net...
>
> <snip>
>
> > The boy and his two brothers -- they're triplets, and enrolled as freshmen
> > together this fall -- have had to leave school. They're all transferring
> > elsewhere; where I do not know. It's a damn shame, since they live in
> > town, and could have gone to a fine school close to home.
>
> That is sad and a damn shame. What I find even sadder is that several
> basketball players threatened to leave the college because of the whole
> ordeal. Whatever happened to choosing a school based on academics instead of
> the name of the basketball coach? One gets the impression that if BK's next
> job is coaching a junior college team, many of the players would transfer to
> that school.
This kids aren't getting an education. Their only shot at not
teaching PE for the rest of their lives is to get a spot with the NBA
-- and their chances of doing so are better at Bloomington Community
College playing for Knight than at Indiana U. playing for anyone else.
The guy's a turd on wheels, but he knows his job.
M.
GrapeApe
>I lived out of town, and the name stuck with me. Why would they
>change it? Who's ever heard of IKON?
Didn't they do some huge spamvertising of a new store promising 20% off to
people bringing in the email password or something like that? Or was that IKEA?
Tank
was involved.<
I don't think they use Carbon Tetrachloride anymore. They were using
Perchlorethylene, but I think even that is falling into disuse, and there
are more environmentally correct chemicals.
Tank
"Remember to pillage before you burn"
Dana Carpender
Lalbert1 wrote:
> In article <9mbtrs0s5eks1heq1...@4ax.com>, JmG
> <jmg...@bestweb.net> writes:
>
> >Dana Carpender <dcar...@kiva.net> wrote:
> >
> >>As was hexocholorophene, which was the big antiseptic fad of my childhood.
> >It was
> >>ubiquitous, sorta like antibacterial soap is now -- until they found out it
> >was
> >>dangerous. Hate to think how many times I washed my hands with PhisoHex...
> >
> >Uh oh. So, now what? What's going to happen to those of us who went through
> >bottles of that stuff as kids?
>
> Probably nothing will happen. The stuff was most likely tested on mice and
> they are the ones who will suffer from all that washing.
Years ago, a friend of mine asserted that we didn't need to ban saccharine and
tobacco and such; what we really needed to do was to start breeding
cancer-resistant white rats. Of course, she still smokes three packs a day...
Dana
Dana Carpender
Geoduck wrote:
It's corn, and some soybeans, but not so much in this part of the state, which
is actually hilly, and doesn't have the deep soil that much of the state does.
Boron Elgar
<extg...@showme.missouri.edu> wrote:
>Dana Carpender wrote:
>>
>> The boy and his two brothers -- they're triplets, and enrolled as freshmen
>> together this fall -- have had to leave school. They're all transferring
>> elsewhere; where I do not know. It's a damn shame, since they live in
>> town, and could have gone to a fine school close to home.
>
>I'm not defending BK's actions, but the kid was a punk. He acts like a
>brat, gets called on the floor for it, & a coach is fired. I feel sorry
>for his brothers, though
The kid did squat. That's the old, "she deserved it for wearing a sexy
dress," kinda stuff.
Knight has been a brute for years. Even the coll prez said that the
kid incident was not the straw. Screw BK. All my sympathies go with
the kid, who is being dumped on with no cause.
Boron
Dutchicus Courageous
>I hope he doesn't find another job.
I hope he winds up coaching the Clippers.
"I still believe in spite of everything that people are really good at heart."
Anne Frank
Bob Ward
<extg...@showme.missouri.edu> wrote:
>Dana Carpender wrote:
>>
>> The boy and his two brothers -- they're triplets, and enrolled as freshmen
>> together this fall -- have had to leave school. They're all transferring
>> elsewhere; where I do not know. It's a damn shame, since they live in
>> town, and could have gone to a fine school close to home.
>
>I'm not defending BK's actions, but the kid was a punk. He acts like a
>brat, gets called on the floor for it, & a coach is fired. I feel sorry
>for his brothers, though
If this were the only thing Knight had done wrong over the years, I
doubt that anything would have been said. How many last chances
SHOULD they have allowed him before saying "enough is enough"?
Dutchicus Courageous
>This kids aren't getting an education.
Well, unless they are. Some atheletes do. Steve Young comes to mind.
> Their only shot at not
>teaching PE for the rest of their lives is to get a spot with the NBA
Well, or they can study marketing or whatever, and get a job in your field,
Mikey, where apparently knowing the fuck-all you are talking about is not a
requirement.
>-- and their chances of doing so are better at Bloomington Community
>College playing for Knight than at Indiana U. playing for anyone else.
Actually, no. A potential NBA prospect would have his best shot at the big
show playing at a div-1 school.
>The guy's a turd on wheels, but he knows his job.
Wow. Three NCAA titles in how many years? How does that stack up to, say, John
Wooden? John Thompson? Rick Patino? Jim Valvano? Whats Knights overall record
compared to, say, that one guy from North Carolina?
Anything Mikey Lorton says about sports that is not a direct quote from a rule
book is ill-considered, uninformed, and just flat out wrong, and you can quote
me on that.
Dutch "Say, aren't you Jerry Tarkanian?" Courage
Patrick Friedel
<jrdeli...@worldnet.removetorepyatt.com> wrote:
>"Ditto" was specifically the one that worked on the basis of using a really
>thick purple "carbon", wherein the paper would be laid face-in around the
>drum, and an alcohol-spirits based solvent would transfer that to the copy
>paper. Methinks it was a brand-name.
>
>I absolutely loved them fumes.
>
>Another version involved cutting a *stencil* on a sort of green tissue, with
>your typewriter set to strike w/o ribbon (A great big huge *manual*
>late-60's office-grade Olivetti... finest writing technology I ever got my
>hands on including this one. You *KNEW* you were producing an important
>document!) and wrapping it around an inked drum.
My dad had a ditto machine (I believe, it might've been mimeo, for
how fuzzy this is in my memory)) for producing his choral group
newsletters when I was a kid. I think it's still hulking in their
basement collecting dust, too.
For a while when I was in college I did some freelance work for a
local Gestetner dealer. A Gestetner seems to be the most common
offspring of the mimeograph machine, all electronic and everything -
you feed in a master copy, it makes a screen for it, makes up the 300
copies you want, and dumps the (ink laden) screen in a refuse bin.
Much nicer and faster than photocopies.
Sure, I understand how that puppy would work photographically,
vaguely. But what _I_ was contracted to do for them was set up the
nifty AppleTalk connection for the secretaries, so they could print
the master _directly_ to the silkscreen, and make the number of copies
from there.
OK, sure, say it had a laser printer like rastering device - it's
possible, I suppose, but I saw one ripped down, and I never saw
anything that didn't just look photographic to me - the electronics
weren't very complicated looking. (Although, as with any mass paper
handling machine, it _was_ immense, and a laser printing head is
relatively small..)
Or am I mistaken, and all it did initially was to scan the master
page with a scanning head, raster that using a laser printer like head
onto the silkscreen, and make copies from there - no fuss? Has anyone
else played with one of these?
GrapeApe
>Was that egg from a cruelty-free farm where hens are allowed to roam free
>range?
The dirty truth about free range chicken? Left to their own devices, chickens
are'nt terribly picky eaters. In fact, they can be rather coprophilic.
I knew many chicken farmers that would keep a chicken in the hen house eating
only grain if it were about to go into a pot somewhere. Someone could get as
picky about the eggs.
And given all the tales about the only difference in the Vitamin E low
cholesteral fed eggs and the normal diet eggs is the box the random eggs are
packed in, who can you trust?
Dutchicus Courageous
>Whats Knights overall record
>compared to, say, that one guy from North Carolina?
Dean Smith, duh. Another guy who won and sent some of his players to the NBA
without being an asshole.
James Andrews
: That is sad and a damn shame. What I find even sadder is that several
: basketball players threatened to leave the college because of the whole
: ordeal. Whatever happened to choosing a school based on academics instead of
: the name of the basketball coach?
Those days are long gone. There's too much money in college sports to
think like that anymore if you're even a semi-promising athlete.
Jas.
--
James Andrews
Philadelphia, PA
Dana Carpender
GrapeApe wrote:
And why would I want a low cholesterol egg when A) lowering dietary cholesterol
intake hasn't been proven to do a damn thing that's useful and B) cholesterol is
essential to every cell in the human body?
Dana
Margaret Kane
> <snip>
> This kids aren't getting an education. Their only shot at not
> teaching PE for the rest of their lives is to get a spot with the NBA
> -- and their chances of doing so are better at Bloomington Community
> College playing for Knight than at Indiana U. playing for anyone else.
> The guy's a turd on wheels, but he knows his job.
>
> M.
Feh. Knight hasn't won in what, six years? He had a good run, certainly, but he's
hardly the best coach out there. If these kids are good enough to get into another
top program, their chances would be better there. Going with Knight to some dinky
school that won't get a bid to the tournament won't help.
As for their schooling -- well, these kids have an opportunity to get themselves
an education. Whether they avail themselves of that opportunity is up to them.
(Although I will grant you that for some kids, it is in their best interest to
focus on the sport and not the education -- if they can get into the pros and make
$8 gazillion, or even $1 million and then break their knee. You can always go back
to school, and if you've invested that bonus, and not blown it on cars and
whatnot, you'll have the money to pay for it. Dman I can't remember, but didn't
some player just go back and get his GED?)
Margaret
Tank
Actually, the threat is an assault. If you do bodily harm, it's battery.
Thus, if you threaten to kick someone's ass, and then do it, you
can be charged with Assault & Battery.
Dana Carpender
Tank wrote:
> >But threatening a student--to me that is the crime of battery.<
>
> Actually, the threat is an assault. If you do bodily harm, it's battery.
> Thus, if you threaten to kick someone's ass, and then do it, you
> can be charged with Assault & Battery.
He left marks on the boy's arm; the photo was in the local paper. Not much
bodily harm, but a bit.
As I mentioned, he once threw a flower arrangement across a room at an IU
office worker. Missed her, I believe. Makes it, what? Attempted assault?
Attempted aggravated assault, since a weapon was involved?
Dana
GrapeApe
>> cholesteral fed eggs and the normal diet eggs is the box the random eggs
>are
>> packed in, who can you trust?
>
>And why would I want a low cholesterol egg when A) lowering dietary
cholesterol
>intake hasn't been proven to do a damn thing that's useful and B) cholesterol
>is
>essential to every cell in the human body?
umm, err.... its right here on the package of bread right under the food
pyramid and the number 23......
Dr H
On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Bob Kaufman wrote:
}If you're under thirty, don't bother reading any further. This will make
}absolutely no sense to you.
}
}Back in elemtary (grammar) school, one of my fondest memories is taking a
}deep whiff of a stack of freshly dittoed handouts. I have two questions
}pertaining to this:
}
}1. What horrible things was I doing to my body?
}2. What happened to the beloved ditto machine?
I thought "ditto fumes" were what you got when Rush Limbaugh broke wind.
:-)
Dr H
Brian Cubbison
In article <39C10214...@kiva.net>, Dana Carpender <dcar...@kiva.net>
wrote:
>
>
Air ball.
Actually, Dana, I agree. The players, arguably, signed up for the kind of
coach they got. Students and office workers didn't sign up for any of this.
What gets me is this: He demanded discipline from his players (and everyone
else he met) that he wasn't willing to practice himself. An etiquette lesson
from Bob Knight? About respect?
Brian Cubbison
Syracuse, N.Y.
Arthur Wohlwill
>From: "Brian Cubbison" <bcub...@twcny.rr.com>
>Subject: Re: Bob Knight (was: Re: Ditto Fumes)
>Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:18:52 GMT
>>
>Air ball.
> Actually, Dana, I agree. The players, arguably, signed up for the kind of
>coach they got. Students and office workers didn't sign up for any of this.
>What gets me is this: He demanded discipline from his players (and everyone
>else he met) that he wasn't willing to practice himself. An etiquette lesson
>from Bob Knight? About respect?
In a number of games, the fans would yell "Bullshit" after a bad call and then
Bobby would grab a microphone and berate the fans for language that was
"innappropriate" for Assembly Hall. Do as I say, etc etc..
Big David
news:20000914011354...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> Michael Lorton mlo...@civetsystems.com writes:
>
> >This kids aren't getting an education.
>
> Well, unless they are. Some atheletes do. Steve Young comes to mind.
Bob Knight, flaming asshole that he is, and I am not defending his actions
over the years, cared about his players getting an education. His
graduation rate is 97%, phenomenal for a big time Div. 1 program.
> > Their only shot at not teaching PE for the rest of their lives is to get
a spot with the NBA
> Well, or they can study marketing or whatever, and get a job in your
field,
> Mikey, where apparently knowing the fuck-all you are talking about is not
a
> requirement.
> >-- and their chances of doing so are better at Bloomington Community
> >College playing for Knight than at Indiana U. playing for anyone else.
> Actually, no. A potential NBA prospect would have his best shot at the
big
> show playing at a div-1 school.
Isiah Thomas, Steve Alford, yadda yadda yadda,....Bob Knight, sent a large
number of athletes over the years to the NBA.
> >The guy's a turd on wheels, but he knows his job.
>Wow. Three NCAA titles in how many years?
19 years.
>How does that stack up to, say, John Wooden?
Not even close. Wooden won 10 national championships in 12 years, 7 in a
row at one point. Life time 620-147 record
>John Thompson?
A racist asshole who won. 597-239 record at Georgetown. 3 Final Fours. 1
national championship in 27 years. Not quite as good as Knight's record at
Indiana
>Rick Patino?
340-127 overall at college level. 4 Final Fours. 1 national championship.
16 years coaching at college level. You be the judge. I like his style of
play better for college than the pros.
>Jim Valvano?
346-212 in 19 seasons. One Final Four. One National Championship. A real
mensch.
>Whats Knights overall record compared to, say, that one guy from North
Carolina?
"that one guy from North Carolina"? I won't let you live that one down....
"that one guy" (Dean Smith for the rest of us) is the winningest coach in
college basketball history. 879 wins (versus 254 loses) 36 years at
North Carolina, the only school where he was head coach. 11 Final Fours.
Two National Championships. 27 twenty win seasons....yadda yadda
yadda....I'm a Maryland Terps fan and glad to see him gone
--
Big David
"Commit a little mortal sin. Its good for your soul."
If you want to send me email, you should be smart enough to figure out how
Alan Hamilton
Friedel) wrote:
> Sure, I understand how that puppy would work photographically,
>vaguely. But what _I_ was contracted to do for them was set up the
>nifty AppleTalk connection for the secretaries, so they could print
>the master _directly_ to the silkscreen, and make the number of copies
>from there.
>
> OK, sure, say it had a laser printer like rastering device - it's
>possible, I suppose, but I saw one ripped down, and I never saw
>anything that didn't just look photographic to me - the electronics
>weren't very complicated looking. (Although, as with any mass paper
>handling machine, it _was_ immense, and a laser printing head is
>relatively small..)
Probably depends on how old the model was. From looking at
Gestetner's web site, it looks like their copier/printers do have
options for a computer interface. It also looks like they've caved in
and started selling laser printers (maybe made by Ricoh).
--
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
* * al...@primenet.com
Dutchicus Courageous
>"Dutchicus Courageous" <mutigho...@aol.comdatglom> wrote in message
>news:20000914011354...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
>> Michael Lorton mlo...@civetsystems.com writes:
>>
>> >This kids aren't getting an education.
>>
>> Well, unless they are. Some atheletes do. Steve Young comes to mind.
>
>Bob Knight, flaming asshole that he is, and I am not defending his actions
>over the years,
Without defending his actions either, I can see where sports is something you
can get all worked up about, especially at that level of the game.
> cared about his players getting an education. His
>graduation rate is 97%, phenomenal for a big time Div. 1 program.
The majority of his players don't go on to the NBA, but do go on to some sort
of successful whatnot or the other thing. Lot of good lessons to learn about
life and what it takes in sports. what did I read about how much better sports
playing kids did than the average slobbo at school and whatnot?
>
>> > Their only shot at not teaching PE for the rest of their lives is to get
>a spot with the NBA
>
>> Well, or they can study marketing or whatever, and get a job in your
>field,
>> Mikey, where apparently knowing the fuck-all you are talking about is not
>a
>> requirement.
>
>> >-- and their chances of doing so are better at Bloomington Community
>> >College playing for Knight than at Indiana U. playing for anyone else.
>
>> Actually, no. A potential NBA prospect would have his best shot at the
>big
>> show playing at a div-1 school.
>
>Isiah Thomas, Steve Alford, yadda yadda yadda,....Bob Knight, sent a large
>number of athletes over the years to the NBA.
Sure. So did Dean Smith and John Thompson.
>
>> >The guy's a turd on wheels, but he knows his job.
>
>>Wow. Three NCAA titles in how many years?
>
>19 years.
>
>>How does that stack up to, say, John Wooden?
>
>Not even close. Wooden won 10 national championships in 12 years,
I knew that, and I think that's just unfucking canny. Even Red Auerbach didn't
get all new players every four years.
> 7 in a
>row at one point. Life time 620-147 record
And everyone has a good thing to say about Wooden. Bill Walton would take a
bullet for Wooden.
>
>>John Thompson?
>
>A racist asshole who won.
Racist?
> 597-239 record at Georgetown. 3 Final Fours. 1
>national championship in 27 years. Not quite as good as Knight's record at
>Indiana
Okay, so Knight is winning more hardware than most coaches.
>>Rick Patino?
>
>340-127 overall at college level. 4 Final Fours. 1 national championship.
>16 years coaching at college level. You be the judge. I like his style of
>play better for college than the pros.
The Coach sure takes a lot of blame for things that might not be his fault,
but then he can take credit for things he didn't have much to do with, either.
I don't know how hard it was for Jackson to win with the Bulls. I am sure it
was hard for him to win with the Lakers, but would it have been possible with
Tim Duncan healthy this season?
>
>>Jim Valvano?
>
>346-212 in 19 seasons. One Final Four. One National Championship. A real
>mensch.
>
>>Whats Knights overall record compared to, say, that one guy from North
>Carolina?
>
>"that one guy from North Carolina"? I won't let you live that one down....
>"that one guy" (Dean Smith for the rest of us) is the winningest coach in
>college basketball history. 879 wins (versus 254 loses) 36 years at
>North Carolina, the only school where he was head coach. 11 Final Fours.
>Two National Championships. 27 twenty win seasons....yadda yadda
>yadda....I'm a Maryland Terps fan and glad to see him gone
Well, I'm going to like Wooden better. W's are nice, but I think Hardware is
what it's all about, and, you know, character.
Jake Schmidt
<snip>
> > cared about his players getting an education. His
> >graduation rate is 97%, phenomenal for a big time Div. 1 program.
>
> The majority of his players don't go on to the NBA, but do go on to some
sort
> of successful whatnot or the other thing. Lot of good lessons to learn
about
> life and what it takes in sports. what did I read about how much better
sports
> playing kids did than the average slobbo at school and whatnot?
Along with his lessons on life, sports, and the importance of an education,
I imagine he also instills a belief in his players that acting like a baby
will get you ahead in life...
<snip>
Hank Gillette
Schmidt" <nospa...@home.com> wrote:
> Along with his lessons on life, sports, and the importance of an
> education,
> I imagine he also instills a belief in his players that acting like a
> baby
> will get you ahead in life...
Strangely, his players end up much more mature than he.
--
Hank Gillette
Dutchicus Courageous
Hank Gillette
mutigho...@aol.comdatglom (Dutchicus Courageous) wrote:
> Why did Larry Bird drop out of Knight's program, anyway?
>
I'm not sure if it had anything to do with Knight. Bird apparently felt
overwhelmed by being in the "big" city.
--
Hank Gillette
Big Iron5
>Why did Larry Bird drop out of Knight's program, anyway?
>
>
To provide the answer that was implied by the query, because he thought Knight
was an asshole (although there were certainly other complications in his life
at the time).
Steve Klein [at] mac dot com
> You are referring to the mimeograph machine.
No, he's referring to a spirit stencil.
--
Steve Klein
NOTE: My EMAIL address has been munged to foil spammers.
Dutchicus Courageous
I wasn't really leading, although I am not terribly surprised.
Does Zeke have to sell the CBA to come coach the Pacers?
Alan Hoyle
>>"that one guy" (Dean Smith for the rest of us) is the winningest coach in
>>college basketball history. 879 wins (versus 254 loses) 36 years at
>>North Carolina, the only school where he was head coach. 11 Final Fours.
>>Two National Championships. 27 twenty win seasons....yadda yadda
>>yadda....I'm a Maryland Terps fan and glad to see him gone
> Well, I'm going to like Wooden better. W's are nice, but I think Hardware is
> what it's all about, and, you know, character.
What precisely do you mean by "character?" Dean Smith, in addition to
his teams' on-court success, is famous for many innovations, high
graduation rates, his opinions on college BB, and his integrity. He
began when the Carolina program was under NCAA sanctions.
His "four corners" offense is cited as the reason for the introduction
of the shot clock in college. He started the "huddle at the free
throw line" which many teams now do. I could go on, but there are
several excellent books and other sources of info.
-alan
UNC '96
--
Alan Hoyle - al...@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate: Ring of Fire - Spear
Dutchicus Courageous
>Dutchicus Courageous <mutigho...@aol.comdatglom> wrote:
>>>"that one guy" (Dean Smith for the rest of us) is the winningest coach in
>>>college basketball history. 879 wins (versus 254 loses) 36 years at
>>>North Carolina, the only school where he was head coach. 11 Final Fours.
>>>Two National Championships. 27 twenty win seasons....yadda yadda
>>>yadda....I'm a Maryland Terps fan and glad to see him gone
>
>> Well, I'm going to like Wooden better. W's are nice, but I think Hardware
>is
>> what it's all about, and, you know, character.
>
>What precisely do you mean by "character?"
Integrity, the number of people who like you, uh...I'm comparing Wooden to
Knight, not Smith, so much.
> Dean Smith, in addition to
>his teams' on-court success, is famous for many innovations, high
>graduation rates, his opinions on college BB, and his integrity.
Sure, okay. He's a swell guy, a fine coach, a moulder of boys into men. Again,
Wooden was being compared to Knight, not Smith.
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>I won't argue about Bobby being an asshole and a kook. But, speaking
>as an old IU alumnus (well 3 year freshmen...lots of partying), he was
>"our" kooky asshole...and he won games...and his players got a good
>solid education as well as learning some discipline. My drill
>instructer in Basic Training was also an asshole, and because of that
>fact I left Basic a much better man.
This is something I do not understand completely. Why does there seem
to be some extra special measure of respect reserved for an authority
figure who is also a prick? So what if the prick wins games or gets
you to march in line...is there no way such things can be accomplished
by being a decent, caring and considerate human?
I look back on teachers, professors & bosses I have had and the best
ones, the ones from whom I learned the most, were not the blustery,
nasty ones, even though they may have had tremendous knowledge to
impart(and did so well, at times,) but rather the ones who were
equally as intelligent teachers & mentors & who showed respect and
courtesy to those who were under their care.
Is this a "girl" thing, or am I just not the S & M type?
Boron
Dana Carpender
Hugh Jass wrote:
> On 17 Sep 2000 07:16:24 GMT, bigi...@aol.com (Big Iron5) wrote:
>
> >Dutch writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Why did Larry Bird drop out of Knight's program, anyway?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >To provide the answer that was implied by the query, because he thought Knight
> >was an asshole (although there were certainly other complications in his life
> >at the time).
>
> Possibly, but IMHO...
>
> It may have something to do with Bobby's habit of playing every player
> in every game, and making sure every player actually gets his hands on
> the ball at least once every game. Bird was a great player, but in my
> opinion was quite a hot-dog player, at least while playing for ISU.
> By hot-dog I mean that once Larry got the ball, nobody else did until
> he had a chance to throw it at the basket. Granted, he put it in the
> basket more often than not, but how many easy shots did he blow for
> the team because he refused to pass the ball and share the spotlight?
> Scoring points does not make you a team player, even if the team wins
> because of those points.
>
> I won't argue about Bobby being an asshole and a kook. But, speaking
> as an old IU alumnus (well 3 year freshmen...lots of partying), he was
> "our" kooky asshole...and he won games...and his players got a good
> solid education as well as learning some discipline. My drill
> instructer in Basic Training was also an asshole, and because of that
> fact I left Basic a much better man.
All of which is as it may be. But Knight seems to feel he has the right to
discipline everybody, whether they're on his team or not, which makes him an
arrogant asshole.
--
Dana W. Carpender
Author, How I Gave Up My Low Fat Diet -- And Lost Forty Pounds!
http://www.holdthetoast.com
Check out our FREE Low Carb Ezine!
Big Iron5
>>>Why did Larry Bird drop out of Knight's program, anyway?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>To provide the answer that was implied by the query, because he thought
>Knight
>>was an asshole (although there were certainly other complications in his
>life
>>at the time).
>
>Possibly, but IMHO...
>
>It may have something to do with Bobby's habit of playing every player
>in every game, and making sure every player actually gets his hands on
>the ball at least once every game. Bird was a great player, but in my
>opinion was quite a hot-dog player, at least while playing for ISU.
He played with the ball in his hands mainly for the reason that it was in his
team's interests, getting the others involved as well as scoring himself. As
for the Sycamores, what basically scrub players would you have preferred taking
more shots?
The idea that Bird was somehow a selfish player on the court is a notion I have
never before seen advanced. It is, frankly, preposterous.
>By hot-dog I mean that once Larry got the ball, nobody else did until
>he had a chance to throw it at the basket.
See, that's where you're wrong.
Granted, he put it in the
>basket more often than not, but how many easy shots did he blow for
>the team because he refused to pass the ball and share the spotlight?
He didn't do that, of course. That's one big reason he's universally
considered the best passing forward in history (with all due respect to Rick
Barry).
Brian Cubbison
In article <37lisskp75588leeu...@4ax.com>, Boron Elgar
<Kalk...@bwu.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:09:39 -0400, Hugh Jass <hugh_j...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I won't argue about Bobby being an asshole and a kook. But, speaking
>>as an old IU alumnus (well 3 year freshmen...lots of partying), he was
>>"our" kooky asshole...and he won games...and his players got a good
>>solid education as well as learning some discipline. My drill
>>instructer in Basic Training was also an asshole, and because of that
>>fact I left Basic a much better man.
>
> This is something I do not understand completely. Why does there seem
> to be some extra special measure of respect reserved for an authority
> figure who is also a prick? So what if the prick wins games or gets
> you to march in line...is there no way such things can be accomplished
> by being a decent, caring and considerate human?
>
> I look back on teachers, professors & bosses I have had and the best
> ones, the ones from whom I learned the most, were not the blustery,
> nasty ones, even though they may have had tremendous knowledge to
> impart(and did so well, at times,) but rather the ones who were
> equally as intelligent teachers & mentors & who showed respect and
> courtesy to those who were under their care.
>
> Is this a "girl" thing, or am I just not the S & M type?
>
> Boron
One of the most powerful coaches in all of sports, Bear Bryant, was known
for not having to raise his voice above a whisper to get things done.
Brian Cubbison
Syracuse, N.Y.
Jake Schmidt
news:sriissc3gh4s71es4...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
Knight
> >was an asshole (although there were certainly other complications in his
life
> >at the time).
>
> Possibly, but IMHO...
>
> It may have something to do with Bobby's habit of playing every player
> in every game, and making sure every player actually gets his hands on
> the ball at least once every game. Bird was a great player, but in my
> opinion was quite a hot-dog player, at least while playing for ISU.
> basket more often than not, but how many easy shots did he blow for
> the team because he refused to pass the ball and share the spotlight?
> because of those points.
Now, I'm not much of a sports nut, but isn't the point to win the game? I
mean, I know you're taught in grade school that it's how you play the game,
but in college and pro sports, it sure seems to be whether you win or lose.
Wouldn't being a team player include giving the ball to the guy most likely
to put it in the basket, regardless of how many times he's already had it?
> I won't argue about Bobby being an asshole and a kook. But, speaking
> as an old IU alumnus (well 3 year freshmen...lots of partying), he was
> "our" kooky asshole...and he won games...and his players got a good
> solid education as well as learning some discipline. My drill
> instructer in Basic Training was also an asshole, and because of that
> fact I left Basic a much better man.
One can learn discipline without being treated like Knight's players. Back
in high school, a good friend's father was a pretty powerful man that never
raised his voice--he got plenty of results his own way. People liked him
too.
> Peace
>
> Hugh
Dutchicus Courageous
>Now, I'm not much of a sports nut, but isn't the point to win the game?
I'd say so, sure.
> I
>mean, I know you're taught in grade school that it's how you play the game,
>but in college and pro sports, it sure seems to be whether you win or lose.
Well, on some level it might be about putting asses in seats and selling
eyeballs to advertisers, but presumably winning is a good way to do that, too,
although great individual performance helps as well.
>Wouldn't being a team player include giving the ball to the guy most likely
>to put it in the basket, regardless of how many times he's already had it?
I don't suppose you caught the last game of the 1993 finals between the Suns
and Bulls? Jordan passed to a wide open John Paxson who sunk a three and broke
my heart. If your best player is a ball hog, it allows the defense to focus on
him, and suddenly he's not your best player, is he? That's why Magic Johnson
and Larry Bird and Michael Jordan were so dangerous and Wilt Chamberlain only
wins two championships..
Or, say...if Ken Griffey Jr. tries to hit a home run every time he goes up to
bat even when the situation calls for a single or a bunt or a sac fly, and he
winds up averaging about .265, well, he hits a lot of home runs that year, and
the Reds go 79 and 74
>One can learn discipline without being treated like Knight's players. Back
>in high school, a good friend's father was a pretty powerful man that never
>raised his voice--he got plenty of results his own way. People liked him
>too.
Walton has a fun story about how Wooden got him to shave.
Joe Shimkus
<hugh_j...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If scoring points and winning games were all that was important, I
> might agree. I still have the idealistic view that the purpose
> college level sports is to teach young people about teamwork,
> sportsmanship, and discipline.
And most people learn these things without playing college level sports.
It usually begins with their parents. So what's the purpose of college
level sports? To find the answer, follow the money.
- Joe
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Boron Elgar
wrote:
>Even an asshole's gotta eat, and...
<snipped>
There are things in life that one is better off not knowing.
Boron