"Hit the showers" - "Run some laps"
Lots42
Coach making the boys do humiliating things for acting up in class or making a
mistake on the playing field.
I'm not familar with this phenomenon. Is humiliation by Coach only for
specified high school sports teams? Do kids sign a contract saying they agree
to be yelled at drill instructor style when they fuck up? Or has Hollywood,
once again, totally distorted reality?
(I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower naked in
front of each other).
--
"I've got a theory. It could be bunnies." - Anya
- "I think this line is mostly filler" - Willow
- "When life gives you lemonades, activate the death robot."
Al Yellon
news:20011126212223...@mb-cs.aol.com...
> I've seen time and again in popular culture and fiction the concept of the
P.E.
> Coach making the boys do humiliating things for acting up in class or
making a
> mistake on the playing field.
>
> I'm not familar with this phenomenon. Is humiliation by Coach only for
> specified high school sports teams? Do kids sign a contract saying they
agree
> to be yelled at drill instructor style when they fuck up? Or has
Hollywood,
> once again, totally distorted reality?
>
> (I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower naked
in
> front of each other).
No, this is definitely true, and was so for me in some gym classes in high
school. Gym was a required course (I think possibly even mandated by state
law), and one of the teachers was one of the coaches of the school's teams,
and took sadistic pleasure in humiliating me, and encouraging others in the
class to humiliate those who he didn't like.
It got to the point where if there had been one more incident, I was
seriously considering taking my complaints to the school administration and
if necessary, to the legal system. It never did get that far.
My guess is that my story is far from unique.
You never took a gym class where you had to shower?
Deborah
>(I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower naked in
>front of each other).
When I was in junior high school (grades 7 through 9), girls who shared the
same gym period not only showered naked together, but we REQUIRED to do so in
order to pass the course. By this I mean that stern (female) gym teachers
stood by the door from the shower room to the locker room and checked to see
that we had showered thoroughly.
As I type this, I can't help sharing your bogglement that this was the routine.
It also occurs to me that this is probably a set-piece lesbian shower scene
for male fantasies, but the reality was severely lacking in eroticism.
Best regards from Deborah
FAQ file: http://members.aol.com/SJF1959/index.html
Found in the in-box: send a blank email to
Found_in_the_i...@yahoogroups.com
Geoduck
>I've seen time and again in popular culture and fiction the concept of the P.E.
>Coach making the boys do humiliating things for acting up in class or making a
>mistake on the playing field.
(snip)
I dunno about coaches, but I had a *science* teacher in high school
that used to punish goof-offs/cause the goof-offs to burn energy by
making them leave the classroom, run to the far end of the school
playfield and come back with a twig off of a particular tree.
I personally never considered the man to be sadistic, except for the
amount of homework he assigned. He certainly kept order in his class
far better than one of the other science teachers, who was an utterly
ineffectual disiplinarian to the point that I felt sorry for him, even
at the time.
--
Geoduck
http://www.olywa.net/cook
Charles Dye
<aye...@REMOVETHIScolgatealumni.org> wrote:
>You never took a gym class where you had to shower?
I didn't; there's a loophole (at least there was in my
district when I went to high school.) You can take Phys
Ed courses for credit in summer school. Bicycling,
swimming, volleyball, crap like that; no locker rooms,
no showers.
--
Signed, Self-Conscious in Albuquerque\
Matt Miller
aye...@REMOVETHIScolgatealumni.org says...
of each other).
>
>No, this is definitely true, and was so for me in some gym classes in high
>school. Gym was a required course (I think possibly even mandated by state
>law), and one of the teachers was one of the coaches of the school's teams,
>and took sadistic pleasure in humiliating me, and encouraging others in the
>class to humiliate those who he didn't like.
>
>It got to the point where if there had been one more incident, I was
>seriously considering taking my complaints to the school administration and
>if necessary, to the legal system. It never did get that far.
>
>My guess is that my story is far from unique.
>
>You never took a gym class where you had to shower?
Showering is a thing of the past. And sadistic gym coaches mostly
extinct as well. I figure most of them these days have degrees in
"Kinesthetics" or whatever their college decided to call PE, which
probably weeds out a good deal of the mentally ill. I did have one gym
coach in the early 90's who was old school in a number of ways. He
eventually got fired for smacking a kid. No mandatoryy showers though.
--
-Matt Miller
Stay strong
Stay free
Kick ass
Rebuild
JmG
>|(I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower naked in
>|front of each other).
I think this thread will reveal more than you ever wanted to know about the
abuse, humiliation and degradation inflicted on teen males through PE
instructors in schools.
"Come on, don't be a Mary!" or "Jeez Bill, you throw like my sister" or any
other manner of feminization used as public humiliation including, but not
limited to beatings, forced wrestling and other types of physical abuse and
mental duress. Running laps was the easy part. Pity the fat kid or the kid who
wore glasses or the kid with too many zits or who was too short or too tall
or... as you can tell I didn't like it one bit. No sir, I didn't like it.
J
--
The Office of Homeland Security [www.bongoboy.com]
Oriole Adams
retrospect, our gym teacher was notoriously sadistic. Any minor infraction of
the rules (or interpreted infraction) would be grounds for the offendee to
seal-walk or crab-walk around the gym, or stay after school to do X amount of
sit-ups, etc, regardless of gender.
Indeed, many of the "games" this teacher inflicted upon us were fairly
sadistic, to wit: "How Many Dodges Can I Make", which involved the class
forming a circle, and one person was put in the center. The circle would throw
a ball at the center person, trying to hit him/her. If the center person could
dodge the ball for ten throws, he would retire to the sideline, and another
victim would enter the circle. Other "games" included traditional Dodge Ball
and Slaughter Ball. Seems like almost every game we played involved someone
getting annihilated.
~
It's a lot like playing the violin
You cannot start out and be Yehudi Menuhin...
Jim Stark
Date: 11/26/2001 11:05 PM Eastern Standard Time writes:
>
>Indeed, many of the "games" this teacher inflicted upon us were fairly
>sadistic, to wit: "How Many Dodges Can I Make", which involved the class
>forming a circle, and one person was put in the center. The circle would
>throw
>a ball at the center person, trying to hit him/her. If the center person
>could
>dodge the ball for ten throws, he would retire to the sideline, and another
>victim would enter the circle. Other "games" included traditional Dodge Ball
>and Slaughter Ball. Seems like almost every game we played involved someone
>getting annihilated.
God, how I loved those games.
"No one understands cool except me and James Dean"-Arthur Fonzarelli
Opus the Penguin
> Lots42 writes:
>>(I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower
>>naked in front of each other).
>
> When I was in junior high school (grades 7 through 9), girls who
> shared the same gym period not only showered naked together, but we
> REQUIRED to do so in order to pass the course. By this I mean that
> stern (female) gym teachers stood by the door from the shower room
> to the locker room and checked to see that we had showered
> thoroughly.
>
> As I type this, I can't help sharing your bogglement that this was
> the routine.
Hmmm. Why the bogglement? Things change. Standards change. If you
read that this was standard practice in another culture (say,
Japanese), would you be boggled? Think of the 60's and early 70's as
another culture.
> It also occurs to me that this is probably a set-piece lesbian
> shower scene for male fantasies, but the reality was severely
> lacking in eroticism.
More like _Carrie_ than _Stripes_, eh?
--
Opus the Penguin
Opus the Penguin
> I think this thread will reveal more than you ever wanted to know
> about the abuse, humiliation and degradation inflicted on teen
> males through PE instructors in schools.
>
> "Come on, don't be a Mary!" or "Jeez Bill, you throw like my
> sister" or any other manner of feminization used as public
> humiliation including, but not limited to beatings, forced
> wrestling and other types of physical abuse and mental duress.
> Running laps was the easy part. Pity the fat kid or the kid who
> wore glasses or the kid with too many zits or who was too short or
> too tall or... as you can tell I didn't like it one bit. No sir, I
> didn't like it.
AW, YOU BIG SISSY!!! CAN'T TAKE A LITTLE ABUSE? YOU GONNA CRY FOR ME
NOW? HUH?!? YOU GONNA CRY LIKE A GIRL?!??!
I only got that kind of stuff in junior high. For some reason, my high
school coaches weren't like that.
--
Opus the Penguin
Opus the Penguin
> I dunno about coaches, but I had a *science* teacher in high school
> that used to punish goof-offs/cause the goof-offs to burn energy by
> making them leave the classroom, run to the far end of the school
> playfield and come back with a twig off of a particular tree.
Was the entire course within view of the classroom window? Or could you
prepare for the event by keeping a twig in your backpack>
--
Opus the Penguin
rob...@bestweb.net
Good! Now maybe there'll be more demand for my bath foam.
(It didn't look so propitious until I took it out of context, sorry.)
rob...@bestweb.net
>I've seen time and again in popular culture and fiction the concept
>of the P.E. Coach making the boys do humiliating things for acting
>up in class or making a mistake on the playing field.
Standard m.o. But since when is running some laps humiliating?
>I'm not familar with this phenomenon. Is humiliation by Coach only
>for specified high school sports teams? Do kids sign a contract
>saying they agree to be yelled at drill instructor style when they
>fuck up? Or has Hollywood, once again, totally distorted reality?
>(I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower
>naked in front of each other).
>--
Is that supposed to be humiliating too?
Lots42
>
>You never took a gym class where you had to shower?
There was some babble about it in middle school. I used to worm out of it by
saying I took one in the morning.
There were a few extreme cases of flop sweat but that was remedied by actual
stalls and quick change under the towels. (I think. Maybe I've repressed. I
know I never showered naked in front of my peers).
Lots42
>I dunno about coaches, but I had a *science* teacher in high school
>that used to punish goof-offs/cause the goof-offs to burn energy by
>making them leave the classroom, run to the far end of the school
>playfield and come back with a twig off of a particular tree.
If there was more then one goof-off, what stopped the group from sending out
one person to bring back multiple branches?
Do it right and you could enjoy breaks on alternating days.
Colin Rosenthal
>>From: "Al Yellon" aye...@REMOVETHIScolgatealumni.org
>
>>
>>You never took a gym class where you had to shower?
>
>There was some babble about it in middle school. I used to worm out of it by
>saying I took one in the morning.
>
>There were a few extreme cases of flop sweat but that was remedied by actual
>stalls and quick change under the towels. (I think. Maybe I've repressed. I
>know I never showered naked in front of my peers).
After rugby we had a communal tub. Sometimes it was the only way to get
warm again.
I guess my old PE teacher is probably dead now, so I'll never get the
chance to hunt him down like a rabid dog.
--
Colin Rosenthal
Astrophysics Institute
University of Oslo
Mike Muth
> In Chicago Public High Schools in the 70s, we also swam in the buff. Don't know
> if they still do.
Wichita, Kansas public schools in the late 60's, too - except on days
when the pool was co-ed.
Mike
Mike Muth
> I've seen time and again in popular culture and fiction the concept of the P.E.
> Coach making the boys do humiliating things for acting up in class or making a
> mistake on the playing field.
> I'm not familar with this phenomenon. Is humiliation by Coach only for
> specified high school sports teams? Do kids sign a contract saying they agree
> to be yelled at drill instructor style when they fuck up? Or has Hollywood,
> once again, totally distorted reality?
I didn't see any abuse this in P.E. classes or in Football or Tennis.
Certainly, there was mild punishment (Push-ups, laps, sitting out a
practice) for making mental errors or trying to slide by with little
effort. But, my coaches were, well, coaches. They were there to help
kids get better at doing those activities.
Now, the other kids could be abusive. Even so, that was only when the
coaches weren't watching.
> (I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower naked in
> front of each other).
Why?
Mike
Lots42
>
>I guess my old PE teacher is probably dead now, so I'll never get the
>chance to hunt him down like a rabid dog.
My fifth grade P.E. teacher is due a testicle kicking by my mother because he
couldn't recognize a kid, me, in shock with a broken collar bone.
I was helped to my feet by my good arm and sent off to the nurse's station.
P.S. someone earlier in the thread asked why I was boggled about kids in school
having to shower naked in front of each other.
I guess I don't really have much of a clear explanation. At home, siblings
didn't shower with each other. At pools you didn't (did you?). And with child
abuse being such a flaming hot topic for decades, it's just suprising that non
biological adults could get away with making kids get naked and soap up.
Guess it's YMMV.
I never had to do it so it's weird to me.
Boron Elgar
>I've seen time and again in popular culture and fiction the concept of the P.E.
>Coach making the boys do humiliating things for acting up in class or making a
>mistake on the playing field.
>
>I'm not familar with this phenomenon. Is humiliation by Coach only for
>specified high school sports teams? Do kids sign a contract saying they agree
>to be yelled at drill instructor style when they fuck up? Or has Hollywood,
>once again, totally distorted reality?
>
>(I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower naked in
>front of each other).
Not only shower, but the boys went swimming in the nude, too. We're
talking all the way up until the late 60's on this. The girls got
swimsuits. No co-ed swimming, alas.
And the water in that pool was always cold.
boron
Boron Elgar
The football coach at my kid's high school called one of the players a
"pussy" as he lay on the ground last year. There was no question of
his meaning.
I am SO hoping one of the boys goes in for football so coachie-poo & I
can cross paths one day.
Boron
Jim Stark
>I guess I don't really have much of a clear explanation. At home, siblings
>didn't shower with each other. At pools you didn't (did you?).
Well, if you're one of those self conscious kids, I guess not, and of course a
shower is a big pain compared to sitting in class a little hot and sweaty, but,
sure, why not? Most pools that i am aware of do have communal showers if they
have showers at all.
> And with child
>abuse being such a flaming hot topic for decades, it's just suprising that
>non
>biological adults could get away with making kids get naked and soap up.
well, what, you want everyone to have his own shower?
>I never had to do it so it's weird to me.
Whatever.
Jim Stark
>The football coach at my kid's high school called one of the players a
>"pussy" as he lay on the ground last year. There was no question of
>his meaning.
>
well, but...was he being a pussy?
ctc...@hotmail.com
> Other "games"
> included traditional Dodge Ball and Slaughter Ball. Seems like almost
> every game we played involved someone getting annihilated.
No, just the fun ones.
Xho
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service
ctc...@hotmail.com
>
> (I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower naked
> in front of each other).
What do they do now? Have private shower stalls? Spend the
rest of the day sweaty and smelly? Shower in bathing suits?
Amy Austin
> >From: col...@toliman.uio.no (Colin Rosenthal)
>
> >I guess my old PE teacher is probably dead now, so I'll never get the
> >chance to hunt him down like a rabid dog.
>
> My fifth grade P.E. teacher is due a testicle kicking by my mother because he
> couldn't recognize a kid, me, in shock with a broken collar bone.
BJ had a similar experience with a limb.
> I was helped to my feet by my good arm and sent off to the nurse's station.
I think it must've been his leg, because when he told me he walked to the
nurse's office, I was shocked. Now that I think harder, though, I think
he sprained it (which can be equally or more painful than a break,
actually).
> P.S. someone earlier in the thread asked why I was boggled about kids in school
> having to shower naked in front of each other.
>
> I guess I don't really have much of a clear explanation. At home, siblings
> didn't shower with each other. At pools you didn't (did you?). And with child
> abuse being such a flaming hot topic for decades, it's just suprising that non
> biological adults could get away with making kids get naked and soap up.
The YMCA has communal showers... I don't know if health clubs do or
not... Anyway, my mom told my gym teacher that it was stupid and abusive
to make kids shower together, and she was told that some kids had "hygiene
issues" and that they did it to make sure that they got at least one
shower a day. This was crap. I can't remember having any stinky kids in
my middle school.
> Guess it's YMMV.
>
> I never had to do it so it's weird to me.
I did it, and it's strange to me, too.
L & k,
Amy (I still believe that I might have been a decent athlete, or at least
not hated gym class with a passion, if it hadn't been for communal
showers... As it is, I still hate exercise).
ctc...@hotmail.com
>
> I guess I don't really have much of a clear explanation. At home,
> siblings didn't shower with each other.
The showers are really not big enough in a home. And most homes don't
have thirty kids.
> At pools you didn't (did you?).
Of course. All the "public" pools I've seen have had communal showers.
(Not that everyone takes a shower, but if they do, that's what they would
use.)
> And with child abuse being such a flaming hot topic for decades, it's
> just suprising that non biological adults could get away with making kids
> get naked and soap up.
Somehow, I think the inorganic adult is less likely to fondle a young'en
if there are thirty others around.
rob...@bestweb.net
>P.S. someone earlier in the thread asked why I was boggled about
>kids in school having to shower naked in front of each other.
>I guess I don't really have much of a clear explanation. At home,
>siblings didn't shower with each other.
Right, they sat in the tub. http://users.bestweb.net/~robgood/lather.htm
rob...@bestweb.net
>After rugby we had a communal tub. Sometimes it was the only way to
>get warm again.
The only time we washed right after rugby was one very muddy time at
Manhattanville College while I was at NY Med. It was a communal shower,
which meant one drain. That drain got so clogged with mud, I think we
flooded the building.
Robert in the Bronx
Matt Miller
says...
>lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42) wrote:
>>
>> (I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower naked
>> in front of each other).
>
>What do they do now? Have private shower stalls? Spend the
>rest of the day sweaty and smelly? Shower in bathing suits?
We just never showered. I never really got that sweaty so it was
never a problem for me. And I can't think of anything we did that
included so much physical exertion that a normal person would get sweaty
enough to require a shower.
Patrick M Geahan
> This was crap. I can't remember having any stinky kids in
> my middle school.
I can. Which is not to say that I believe that was the reason for us
showering after gym...but it was certainly plausible.
Of course, our gym classes were generally pretty intensive, and we really
should have showered.
--
-------Patrick M Geahan----...@home.com-------ICQ:3784715------
Quote of the Week: "Jesus Christ on a dance floor: "Help! I've risen but
I can't get down!"" - Delain
GrapeApe
>coach in the early 90's who was old school in a number of ways. He
>eventually got fired for smacking a kid. No mandatoryy showers though.
At the schools I attended, the gym teacher was often the designated paddler,
the one in charge of corporal punishment, the guy with the holes in his paddle
so it would cut through the air faster.
N Jill Marsh
>I guess I don't really have much of a clear explanation. At home, siblings
>didn't shower with each other.
Actually, back in the Olde Days of My Childhoode, when more than one
bathroom was fairly unusual in a house, yes, siblings did often shower
or bath with each other until they were to big to fit in the tub. And
no, this was not a practise confined to my family. Wasn't aware it
had gone out of fashion, actually.
>At pools you didn't (did you?).
I have seen very few pools where the majority of showers were not
communal, and many where communal showers were the only thing. Though
it is fairly unusual to see kids strip for pool showers where I have
been in N America.
>And with child
>abuse being such a flaming hot topic for decades, it's just suprising that non
>biological adults could get away with making kids get naked and soap up.
Pretty hard to fiddle with kids when there's 30 witnesses.
>I never had to do it so it's weird to me.
I can certainly understand this, particularly as you're speaking of
childhood, but what about adulthood? Goodness, does every gym you've
ever been in have only private showers or is adult-only?
nj"ah, the mystery of gym changerooms"m
"Well it's been three kids in seven years,
Gordie works with Dad hauling cases of beer."
Mirhanda Sarko
> P.S. someone earlier in the thread asked why I was boggled about kids
> in school having to shower naked in front of each other.
>
> I guess I don't really have much of a clear explanation. At home,
> siblings didn't shower with each other. At pools you didn't (did you?).
> And with child abuse being such a flaming hot topic for decades, it's
> just suprising that non biological adults could get away with making
> kids get naked and soap up.
>
Well, at our school we had shower stalls, so each girl could shower
privately. There was a curtained stall in front of each shower for your
clothes, then the separately curtained stall right behind for the shower
itself. No running around naked in a wide open room for us. I don't know
about the boys locker room, but I always assumed it was the same.
Mirhanda
--
Decapitate my addy to email me
You live on the edge?
Well, I fell off some time ago.
GrapeApe
>know
>> if they still do.
>
>Wichita, Kansas public schools in the late 60's, too - except on days
>when the pool was co-ed.
Chew bad the poowul wasn't heeyeted then.
GrapeApe
>rest of the day sweaty and smelly? Shower in bathing suits?
B, the second one.
Or fake it with a sponge bath under the arms, which would be close to C.
The thing is, in public school, there were already some kids reeking pretty bad
already, before working up a sweat. They might not have bathed at home. And
sometimes the gym was relatively cool compared to the classrooms.
Michael
When I was in junior high (late '60's) we had group showers and the
phys-ed teacher watched us going in to make sure we had soap.
--
Michael
I have three e-mail addresses :
mitc...@image-link.com mitc...@att.net mitc...@home.com
If one doesn't work, well...
Al Yellon
news:3c03000...@news1.nmia.com...
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:35:34 -0600, "Al Yellon"
> <aye...@REMOVETHIScolgatealumni.org> wrote:
>
> >You never took a gym class where you had to shower?
>
> district when I went to high school.) You can take Phys
> Ed courses for credit in summer school. Bicycling,
> swimming, volleyball, crap like that; no locker rooms,
> no showers.
>
That would have been far more humane than the 19th century mentality that we
had.
Lots42
>
> >P.S. someone earlier in the thread asked why I was boggled about
> >kids in school having to shower naked in front of each other.
> >I guess I don't really have much of a clear explanation. At home,
> >siblings didn't shower with each other.
>
http://users.bestweb.net/~robgood/lather.htm
>
I presume tub time stopped before high school.
Al Yellon
news:5r460uouod0f2qla2...@4ax.com...
> On 27 Nov 2001 02:22:23 GMT, lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42) wrote:
>
> >(I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower naked
in
> >front of each other).
>
>
> In Chicago Public High Schools in the 70s, we also swam in the buff. Don't
know
> if they still do.
We did that too, in the suburban public schools in the mid 70's.
Al Yellon
news:Xns91667E419A6E3az...@130.133.1.4...
> Well, at our school we had shower stalls, so each girl could shower
> privately. There was a curtained stall in front of each shower for your
> clothes, then the separately curtained stall right behind for the shower
> itself. No running around naked in a wide open room for us. I don't know
> about the boys locker room, but I always assumed it was the same.
Not in the boys locker room at my high school. Communal shower, everyone
running around naked. I don't know about the girls locker room in those
days.
Apparently, much has changed about high school gym classes in the last 25
years!
Lots42
>I can certainly understand this, particularly as you're speaking of
>childhood, but what about adulthood? Goodness, does every gym you've
>ever been in have only private showers or is adult-only?
Health gyms do this?
Lordy all mighty.
Guess I'll stick to jogging.
(Apparently I've led a very sheltered life).
--
"I've got a theory. It could be bunnies." - Anya
- "I think this line is mostly filler" - Willow
- "When life gives you lemonades, activate the death robot."
Opus the Penguin
> P.S. someone earlier in the thread asked why I was boggled about
> kids in school having to shower naked in front of each other.
Guilty!
> I guess I don't really have much of a clear explanation. At home,
> siblings didn't shower with each other. At pools you didn't (did
> you?).
No, but that's a convention that's developed over time. When Tom and
Huck went to the ole swimmin' hole, they didn't bring their trunks.
Neither did those kids in that Norman Rockwell painting.
> And with child abuse being such a flaming hot topic for
> decades, it's just suprising that non biological adults could get
> away with making kids get naked and soap up.
Was sexual molestation of children really talked about in the 50's and
60's?
> Guess it's YMMV.
>
> I never had to do it so it's weird to me.
Hey, my mileage doesn't vary very much, believe me. The whole thing
creeps me out and I was never comfortable the few times I had to do it
at camp. But I don't boggle that it used to be done.
--
Opus the Penguin
Estron
> Pity the fat kid or the kid who wore glasses or the kid with too
> many zits or who was too short or too tall or...
I went to a parochial high school in the 1970s, where the man who taught
P.E. was the school's head basketball coach. I don't think anyone was
ever humiliated for being too tall.
Also, he believed in group, not individual, punishment. If anyone
hacked him off sufficiently, the entire P.E. class the following day was
given over to calisthenics, instead of some slightly more pleasant
recreational activity.
--
All opinions are --surprise!-- only that.
Pax vobiscum.
est...@tfs.net
Kansas City, Missouri
N Jill Marsh
>>From: N Jill Marsh njm...@storm.ca
>
>>I can certainly understand this, particularly as you're speaking of
>>childhood, but what about adulthood? Goodness, does every gym you've
>>ever been in have only private showers or is adult-only?
>
>Health gyms do this?
I admit that I have been in relatively few small private health clubs,
larger institutions such as Ys, military base gyms, school gyms, or
public sports complexes - I have never been in one that did not have
the majority of the showers as communal/open. The amount of private
shower stalls varied from none to maybe half.
>Lordy all mighty.
Hardly a big enough deal to bring God into it.
>Guess I'll stick to jogging.
>
>(Apparently I've led a very sheltered life).
Maybe you should get out more. I haven't had anyone scream and faint
over me thus far.
nj"though the guy last week that walked into the wrong changeroom, he
gasped, but that was probably at my maniacal laughter"m
artyw
> The football coach at my kid's high school called one of the players a
> "pussy" as he lay on the ground last year. There was no question of
> his meaning.
>
> I am SO hoping one of the boys goes in for football so coachie-poo & I
> can cross paths one day.
>
You'd let your kid play football after hearing about all that? Of
course, the coach could be the nicest guy in the world, but one of the
other players might hang your son by his jockstrap while he was
wearing it(this happened in my school). Or kids on the other team
could do nasty things to him (hey it's football!). My parents would
never have let me play football. Had they, and had I been stupid
enough, I am sure the coach would have said "You're gonna get killed
out there." I did try out for baseball, one of 60 kids trying for 20
spots. Many players much more talented than I did not make the team.
Except for some minor razzing, I did not get too badly hurt. To his
credit, the coach never said much of anything to me. He could have
easily told me not even to bother trying out, or that I hit like his
dead grandmother and fielded like his dead cat (both true). Ah, high
school sports!
ctc...@hotmail.com
> >From: N Jill Marsh njm...@storm.ca
>
> >I can certainly understand this, particularly as you're speaking of
> >childhood, but what about adulthood? Goodness, does every gym you've
> >ever been in have only private showers or is adult-only?
>
> Health gyms do this?
The local 24-hour fitness has private showers, but only like two of them.
(most people just go home sweaty and shower there, I assume). The other
places I've been to (summer camps, student rec center, corporate gym,
faculty club) where people general shower there have communal showers.
> Lordy all mighty.
I didn't think prudes would take His name in vain.
> Guess I'll stick to jogging.
>
> (Apparently I've led a very sheltered life).
Well, I suppose.
Dr H
On 27 Nov 2001, Jim Stark wrote:
} Boron Elgar boron_elgar@"warm"mail.com writes:
}
}>The football coach at my kid's high school called one of the players a
}>"pussy" as he lay on the ground last year. There was no question of
}>his meaning.
}>
}
}well, but...was he being a pussy?
Watch it, Dutch; you could get expelled for saying stuff like that.
Dr H
Dr H
On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Matt Miller wrote:
}aye...@REMOVETHIScolgatealumni.org says...
}>
}>You never took a gym class where you had to shower?
}
} Showering is a thing of the past.
Indeed?
Dr H
Dr H
On 27 Nov 2001, Jim Stark wrote:
}oriol...@aol.com (Oriole Adams)
}>Seems like almost every game we played involved someone
}>getting annihilated.
}
}God, how I loved those games.
Somehow this is not surprising.
Dr H
Barbara
>abuse being such a flaming hot topic for decades, it's just suprising that
>non
>biological adults could get away with making kids get naked and soap up.
>
>
>I never had to do it so it's weird to me.
I'm suprised they still aren't making kids shower after gym....I used to go to
the local Y to use the pool, and the teenaged girls that swim there are so
comfortable running around the locker room and sauna in the buff that I assumed
they'd acquired this comfort level in gym class.
I hated it when I was in high school, but only because they never gave you
enough time to shower and get dressed and you were always late for your next
class. And the shower WAS mandatory - girls did get excused from showering
during their period, but the gym teacher tracked that so you couldn't use that
excuse more often than was plausible.
And as much as I hated it, it seems even worse not to have showers or not to
give the students time to shower and make them run around skanky the rest of
the day
Barbara -
"I've got something inside me
Not what my life's about
Cause I've been letting my outside tide me
Over 'til my time runs out."
Taxi
Harry Chapin
Perry Farmer
-> Lots42 wrote:
-> > P.S. someone earlier in the thread asked why I was boggled about
-> > kids in school having to shower naked in front of each other.
-> Guilty!
-> > I guess I don't really have much of a clear explanation. At home,
-> > siblings didn't shower with each other. At pools you didn't (did
-> > you?).
-> No, but that's a convention that's developed over time. When Tom and
-> Huck went to the ole swimmin' hole, they didn't bring their trunks.
-> Neither did those kids in that Norman Rockwell painting.
-> > And with child abuse being such a flaming hot topic for
-> > decades, it's just suprising that non biological adults could get
-> > away with making kids get naked and soap up.
-> Was sexual molestation of children really talked about in the 50's and
-> 60's?
Very much so, in both.
-> Opus the Penguin
Perry
Jim Stark
All real Americans love the sting of battle.
"No one understands cool except me and James Dean"-Arthur Fonzarelli
Barbara
>to make kids shower together
Did your Mom actually go to the school for the purpose of complaining to the
gym teacher about you having to shower?
I find it hard to imagine anything more embarrassing, and I just hope the other
kids at school didn't find our or you might have never lived it down.
If my Mom had done that, I probably still wouldn't be speaking to her, and it's
been over 25 years since I was in high school.
kay w
Amy:
>>Anyway, my mom told my gym teacher that it was stupid and abusive
>>to make kids shower together
Barbara:
>Did your Mom actually go to the school for the purpose of complaining to the
>gym teacher about you having to shower?
>If my Mom had done that, I probably still wouldn't be speaking to her, and
it's
>been over 25 years since I was in high school.
Me too, and me too. Especially with something like showering after 50 minutes
of hard, sweaty exercise. Pretty disgusting, to walk around stinking all day.
Nothing wrong with communal showers (to say it's abusive is ridiculous) and
there's nothing wrong with being clean...I don't know what some folks did for
gym classes, stand around and fix their hair, maybe, but we would work hard and
sweat, and *needed* to bathe before dressing and continuing the day.
kay w
Address munged. AOL isn't necessarily comatose, evidence to the contrary not
withstanding.
Michael
> Me too, and me too. Especially with something like showering after 50 minutes
> of hard, sweaty exercise. Pretty disgusting, to walk around stinking all day.
> Nothing wrong with communal showers (to say it's abusive is ridiculous) and
> there's nothing wrong with being clean...I don't know what some folks did for
> gym classes, stand around and fix their hair, maybe, but we would work hard and
> sweat, and *needed* to bathe before dressing and continuing the day.
>
> kay w
It didn't matter at my schools....some poor kids did shower...then put
on their stinky clothes.
Amy Austin
> >Anyway, my mom told my gym teacher that it was stupid and abusive
> >to make kids shower together
>
> Did your Mom actually go to the school for the purpose of complaining to the
> gym teacher about you having to shower?
No, it came up during parent-teacher night. The teacher was one of those
creepy old guys, everyone said that he was a P.E. teacher because he got
off on watching the boys shower... Mom got into it with him over having
to have uniforms ("Why can't the kids just wear a pair of shorts and a
t-shirt instead of paying $30 to the school for 'uniform rental'? And is
it really rental when I have to wash the thing and she keeps it all year?"
etc.) and then they got into the shower thing.
> I find it hard to imagine anything more embarrassing, and I just hope
> the other kids at school didn't find our or you might have never lived
> it down.
This was in 6th grade. I went through puberty before all of my peers, and
I got teased mercilessly for having pubic hair and breasts. Kids stared
at me, told jokes, etc. Somehow they assumed that the presence of pubic
hair and breasts meant that I was having sex, so for a while I was the
class slut, by rumor alone. It was humiliating and abusive to put me in a
class with a bunch of mean, poorly behaved, underdeveloped brats who
singled me out to be "different" simply because I was mature. I came home
crying over it *daily*. I had enough to be embarassed about, believe me.
I was the only one in my gym class who was able to take the "opt out of
shower due to period" option, and I had to have the *male* gym teacher's
permission to do so, which meant that I had to ask his permission in front
of all the boys, as they were headed into the locker room... My mom was
trying to help. The policy *was* stupid and abusive, and I hope to God
that it has changed before I have kids, or I'll raise holy hell.
> If my Mom had done that, I probably still wouldn't be speaking to her,
> and it's been over 25 years since I was in high school.
You have an unusual sense of the embarassing, I guess.
Amy Austin
> Previously:
>
> Amy:
> >>Anyway, my mom told my gym teacher that it was stupid and abusive
> >>to make kids shower together
>
> Barbara:
> >Did your Mom actually go to the school for the purpose of complaining to the
> >gym teacher about you having to shower?
> >If my Mom had done that, I probably still wouldn't be speaking to her, and
> it's
> >been over 25 years since I was in high school.
>
> Me too, and me too. Especially with something like showering after 50
> minutes of hard, sweaty exercise.
Who ever sweated hard in middle school gym? We rarely did anything that
necessitated a shower, and I'm very cleanliness-conscious.
> Pretty disgusting, to walk around stinking all day.
It takes a lot more than 30 minutes (the first and last ten are reserved
for dressing and showering) to get someone truly stinky. And there
would've been nothing wrong with washing our underarms at the sinks
instead, if we chose to, we wouldn't have stank even after thirty minutes
of actual exercise.
> Nothing wrong with communal showers (to say it's abusive is ridiculous)
> and there's nothing wrong with being clean...
It's not the "being clean" that I had a problem with... I forgot to
mention in my last post that I had waist-length hair in school, which
posed a serious problem - it usually took 3 or 4 hours to air dry, and at
least 20 minutes to blow dry, and we had ten.
> I don't know what some
> folks did for gym classes, stand around and fix their hair, maybe, but
> we would work hard and sweat, and *needed* to bathe before dressing and
> continuing the day.
I can't remember ever doing anything that strenuous, and I suspect that
gym class was a lot more recent for me than for you.
Lots42
>Me too, and me too. Especially with something like showering after 50
>minutes
>of hard, sweaty exercise.
Ahah!
No hard sweaty exercise in gym class must be why we didn't do this.
Forty minutes of idiots trying to find their pulses (some couldn't, god) didn't
work up a lot of sweat.
Lots42
>> Lordy all mighty.
>
>I didn't think prudes would take His name in vain.
I'm a prude for not wanting to get naked in front of a bunch of strangers?
That's an interesting definition of 'prude'.
Oriole Adams
the end of class. I don't care if we were all girls, or not.....appearing
naked in front of a bunch of strangers was still traumatic.
Oddly enough, when I got to high school, showers were no longer mandatory, and
no one took them. Weird thing was, at the time I rarely perspired, despite a
strenuous workout. Maybe I was a late bloomer. I know that now, I'd *never*
think of getting dressed after an hour of gymnastics without showering first.
~
It's a lot like playing the violin
You cannot start out and be Yehudi Menuhin...
Oriole Adams
>}>getting annihilated.
>}
>}God, how I loved those games.
>
It was always the big, mean kids who like these games.......
Jim Stark
Date: 11/27/2001 6:55 PM Eastern Standard Time writes:
>>From: ctc...@hotmail.com
>
>>> Lordy all mighty.
>>
>>I didn't think prudes would take His name in vain.
>
>I'm a prude for not wanting to get naked in front of a bunch of strangers?
Yes.
>
>That's an interesting definition of 'prude'.
"Main Entry: prude
Pronunciation: 'prüd
Function: noun
Etymology: French, good woman, prudish woman, short for prudefemme good woman,
from Old French prode femme
Date: 1704
: a person who is excessively or priggishly attentive to propriety or decorum;
especially : a woman who shows or affects extreme modesty "
It seems communual same sex showering is a pretty standard part of atheletic,
you know, activity. It's not a wild roman orgy in there, it's hygenie. No one
is scoping your bod. Get in, get wet, soap up, rinse, get out.
You know, our army guys and anyone who's been on any sort of sports team
prolly have stories about long conversations and group sings in the shower.
It's not a big deal.
Jim Stark
>Who ever sweated hard in middle school gym?
I dunno, anyone who played basketball?
kay w
Amy:
>I can't remember ever doing anything that strenuous, and I suspect that
>gym class was a lot more recent for me than for you.
I'm sure it was more recent for you but don't know what your point is...don't
high school gym classes still exercise? In high school, 68-72, we *exercised*,
one way or another, for 45-50 min, with 10 min to shower, dress and get to
class. The gym teacher was very serious about her responsibilities.
She was also the cheerleader sponsor, and all the cheerleaders were required to
have short (very) haircuts because they worked hard and sweated... none of
that *glow* stuff.
It would have been nasty to not shower, and the communiality of it was just not
an issue. We needed to get clean, or we'd be stinking before lunch.
Perry Farmer
-> >From: scu...@aol.comatose (kay w)
-> >Me too, and me too. Especially with something like showering after 50
-> >minutes
-> >of hard, sweaty exercise.
-> Ahah!
-> No hard sweaty exercise in gym class must be why we didn't do this.
-> Forty minutes of idiots trying to find their pulses (some couldn't, g
-> work up a lot of sweat.
Sounds like exercise in school now is a whole lot different in the days
of JFK's getting fit physical education. Starting as early as grade
school (1-6) we "sweated". Junior High (6-9) was much harder with things
getting just a little bit easier in High School. In high school we had
the naked swims for boys, girls wore suits. One new girl even made it
all the way down to our pool by being sent there to give the gym teacher
a note. Somehow she didn't think twice about going down a spiral
staircase into the boys locker room, then through the shower room on her
way to the pool. Funny how fast one girl can convince about 50 boys to
jump into a pool.
-> "I've got a theory. It could be bunnies." - Anya
-> - "I think this line is mostly filler" - Willow
-> - "When life gives you lemonades, activate the death robot."
Perry
Jim Stark
Date: 11/27/2001 8:05 PM Eastern Standard Time writes:
>
>Previously:
>
>Amy:
>>I can't remember ever doing anything that strenuous, and I suspect that
>>gym class was a lot more recent for me than for you.
>
>I'm sure it was more recent for you but don't know what your point is...don't
>high school gym classes still exercise?
Probably some do, and some don't. I mean, hell, Amy had ten minutes of gym. I
had 45 minutes. We played basketball, we lifted weights, we played volley ball,
ran, wrestled, did calesthenics...all kinds of shit.
> In high school, 68-72, we
>*exercised*,
>one way or another, for 45-50 min, with 10 min to shower, dress and get to
>class. The gym teacher was very serious about her responsibilities.
>She was also the cheerleader sponsor, and all the cheerleaders were required
>to
>have short (very) haircuts because they worked hard and sweated... none of
>that *glow* stuff.
>
>It would have been nasty to not shower, and the communiality of it was just
>not
>an issue.
We didn't all shower. Hardly anyone did, in fact. You'd towel off and put on
more deoderant.
Amy Austin
> Amy Austin glea...@purdue.edu
> Date: 11/27/2001 6:31 PM Eastern Standard Time writes:
>
> >Who ever sweated hard in middle school gym?
>
> I dunno, anyone who played basketball?
I don't remember playing basketball until high school, and even then, we
weren't good enough at it to necessitate a shower.
I remember playing baseball (25 minutes of standing around, 1 minute of
being at bat, strike out, 4 minutes of waiting, shower). They always put
me in the farthest reaches of the outfield...
We played dodgeball, which I categorically avoided. There was nothing fun
for me about being hit in the face with anything. I usually had stomach
aches on those days.
We played volleyball, which was fun, but it was mostly about standing
around waiting for the person who was "up" to figure out how to serve.
On the few days that we ran, it would've been enough to just wash our
pits.
L & k,
Amy
Boron Elgar
>Previously:
>
>Amy:
>>I can't remember ever doing anything that strenuous, and I suspect that
>>gym class was a lot more recent for me than for you.
>
>I'm sure it was more recent for you but don't know what your point is...don't
>high school gym classes still exercise? In high school, 68-72, we *exercised*,
>one way or another, for 45-50 min, with 10 min to shower, dress and get to
>class. The gym teacher was very serious about her responsibilities.
>She was also the cheerleader sponsor, and all the cheerleaders were required to
>have short (very) haircuts because they worked hard and sweated... none of
>that *glow* stuff.
>
>It would have been nasty to not shower, and the communiality of it was just not
>an issue. We needed to get clean, or we'd be stinking before lunch.
>
>
My boys ran a mile last week in gym (8th grade). There are no shower
facilities, but the gym clothes came home that day for laundry. They
are on Project Adventure now, with group coordination & teamwork
exercises..ropes, harnesses, trust stuff. At other times of the year
they have team sports or work out stuff, sit ups, pull ups, chins.
Granted, for at least one 6 week period during the year they have
health lessons in a classroom, but when they work, they really do it.
Boron
Amy Austin
> Previously:
>
> Amy:
> >I can't remember ever doing anything that strenuous, and I suspect that
> >gym class was a lot more recent for me than for you.
>
> I'm sure it was more recent for you but don't know what your point is...don't
> high school gym classes still exercise? In high school, 68-72, we *exercised*,
> one way or another, for 45-50 min, with 10 min to shower, dress and get to
> class. The gym teacher was very serious about her responsibilities.
> She was also the cheerleader sponsor, and all the cheerleaders were required to
> have short (very) haircuts because they worked hard and sweated... none of
> that *glow* stuff.
I listed some of the "sports" we played in another post... I don't
remember sweating much. I took **bowling** as P.E. one year (we were not
required to shower after bowling) in high school. Another year I took
golf.
> It would have been nasty to not shower, and the communiality of it was
> just not an issue. We needed to get clean, or we'd be stinking before
> lunch.
It may not have been an issue for you, but it was for me, and for a lot of
kids. Would it have been such a big deal to put in a few curtains so that
people like me could have some privacy? Your lack of embarassment really
isn't the issue, when so many of us *were* embarassed and *did* have
horrible experiences. It's like saying, "I was in a fire, and I didn't
mind, so you shouldn't worry that your apartment doesn't have smoke
detectors."
L & k,
Amy (who knows no real difference between physical and emotional harm...
I've had both, and the emotional takes a helluva lot longer to heal)
David Zeiger
>>}>Seems like almost every game we played involved someone
>>}>getting annihilated.
>>}
>>}God, how I loved those games.
>>
>
>It was always the big, mean kids who like these games.......
Funny, even as an adult I'm only 5'6" and 115lbs, was always one
of the last ones picked during games at recess, but in grade
school, pin dodgeball was by far my favorite game in gym class.
In fact, I can't recall anyone in my class being happy when
in 6th grade, we got a new gym teacher that insisted we play
with nerf soccer balls instead of the red rubber balls we
used to play with.
--
David Zeiger
GrapeApe
>>}>getting annihilated.
>>}
>>}God, how I loved those games.
>>
>
>It was always the big, mean kids who like these games.......
actually, I don't know how the "shooters" in Dodgeball were chosen, but as one
of the dodgers usuall last to survive, I thought the game was okay.
But they may have just been missing me because they didn't like me.
kay w
>Your lack of embarassment really
>isn't the issue
And your embarrassment really *is* the issue?
Sorry, I didn't realize afca really has become "All Amy, all the time."
Geoduck
>>From: geo...@webave.com (Geoduck)
>
>>I dunno about coaches, but I had a *science* teacher in high school
>>that used to punish goof-offs/cause the goof-offs to burn energy by
>>making them leave the classroom, run to the far end of the school
>>playfield and come back with a twig off of a particular tree.
>
>If there was more then one goof-off, what stopped the group from sending out
>one person to bring back multiple branches?
>
>Do it right and you could enjoy breaks on alternating days.
Since a couple of people have pointed out loopholes in this scheme,
I think about it a little more carefully, and I guess he didn't do it
that often. He didn't need to; he was (and presumably still is) one of
those teachers who 90% of time can Wave The Magic Disipline Wand in
his classroom and not have any trouble with his students. Some
teachers got it, and some don't.
The members of the latter group often get eaten alive, even in
places like the whitebread suburban school which I attended. To this
day, I'm convinced that a certain doofus in my class helped drive one
of the other science teachers in the school into a literal nervous
breakdown. (Helped; I'm sure there were other contributing factors...)
--
Geoduck
http://www.olywa.net/cook
Geoduck
<boron_elgar@"warm"mail.com> wrote:
>On 27 Nov 2001 02:22:23 GMT, lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42) wrote:
>
>>I've seen time and again in popular culture and fiction the concept of the P.E.
>>Coach making the boys do humiliating things for acting up in class or making a
>>mistake on the playing field.
>>
>>I'm not familar with this phenomenon. Is humiliation by Coach only for
>>specified high school sports teams? Do kids sign a contract saying they agree
>>to be yelled at drill instructor style when they fuck up? Or has Hollywood,
>>once again, totally distorted reality?
>>
>>(I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower naked in
>>front of each other).
>
>Not only shower, but the boys went swimming in the nude, too. We're
>talking all the way up until the late 60's on this. The girls got
>swimsuits. No co-ed swimming, alas.
>
>And the water in that pool was always cold.
Did a lot of schools have pools? Mine certainly didn't. Heck, I don't
think the *town* even had a pool at the time.
--
Geoduck
http://www.olywa.net/cook
Erich
> GrapeApe wrote:
> >
> > >What do they do now? Have private shower stalls? Spend the
> > >rest of the day sweaty and smelly? Shower in bathing suits?
> >
> > B, the second one.
> >
> > Or fake it with a sponge bath under the arms, which would be close to C.
> >
> > The thing is, in public school, there were already some kids reeking pretty
> > bad
> > already, before working up a sweat. They might not have bathed at home.
> > And
> > sometimes the gym was relatively cool compared to the classrooms.
>
> When I was in junior high (late '60's) we had group showers and the
> phys-ed teacher watched us going in to make sure we had soap.
Our junior high PE teacher made sure we were all in the shower, then
went outside to have a smoke. This gave the nuckle draggers plenty of
time to work out frustrations by using the smaller kids as punching
dummies.
Is this what they call naked agression?
... Erich
Amy Austin
> Previously, Amy said, in small part:
>
> >Your lack of embarassment really
> >isn't the issue
>
> And your embarrassment really *is* the issue?
No, you condescending, know it all, self-centered, arrogant bitch, it's
the embarassment of the kids who are in school now. It's the kid who
grows tits and pubic hair a year ahead of schedule, and looks like an
adult in a room full of naked 5 year olds. It's the girl whose parents
put cigarettes out on her back, who is scared half to death that someone
will notice, because last time CPS got involved, Daddy put her in the
hospital with a broken pelvis. It's the boy whose leg is malformed
because of the birth defect that he doesn't want anyone to find out about
because they tease the other kid with a disability, call him "cripple" and
pick him last for all the teams. It's the girl who hasn't quite figured
out how to time her periods yet, and who starts bleeding in the middle of
P.E. from the exertion, doesn't notice until she's in the shower, and gets
teased for three years because of it. It's the kid in a wheelchair who
feels different enough as it is, without having to be LIFTED into a
special chair to shower, and then lifted, naked and humiliated, back out
in the name of "inclusion". It's the boy who gets picked on for being
small and smart, whose penis hasn't developed yet, who gets called "Tiny"
by every other kid in the school. It's the kid who has smelly feet, the
kid who has poor parents and has tacky old hand-me-down underwear, it's
the kid who was sexually abused as a child and has flashbacks to that pain
and humiliation every time someone else sees her naked - and who will
still feel a twinge of that pain and humiliation when she's 30, because
she wasn't ever given a chance to heal.
It's sadistic fucks like you, Kay, who perpetuate the cycle of kids not
having rights, in the name of "I had to do it too, and I turned out fine."
You don't know how not-fine some of the *children* in those rooms and in
those showers are, and you have no right to force them to expose
themselves to cruel, hateful, mean children in the name of "education".
Since when do kids give up their right to privacy until they're 18? How
is it that a 15 year old girl can have an abortion without her parents
finding out, but she is forced to participate in gym class? If adults
were forced to exercise and shower together at work, it would be called
sexual harassment, but if it's kids, it's "cleanliness".
> Sorry, I didn't realize afca really has become "All Amy, all the time."
And I didn't realize that the kids from 6th grade gym had followed me all
the way here... You are exactly like them, you know. You find a
weakness, an insecurity, a fear, and you stick your finger into that crack
in someone's soul, and you wiggle it until the crack is a break, and then
what, Kay, then what?
Real nice, real fucking mature.
God, middle school was hard enough. I'll bet you're the same person who
just can't understand what drives school shootings, too, aren't you? YOU
are the force behind school shootings, Kay. You and everyone like you,
who has to be cruel to someone else in order to make herself feel like a
person. Did you feel big and smart when you posted what you did? Did you
feel like you'd really gotten a good slam in on me? Yeah, I'll bet. I'll
bet you felt big and tough and invincible, just like the kids who called
me "Jugs", just like the kids who called James "cripple", just like the
kids who called Mark "tiny".
And for all of the kids like me in the world, I just would like to say, to
all of the kids like you:
You didn't win. We're better than you. You only wish you had what I
have. Mark is running his own business right now, at 24 years old, and
making tons of money. James is going to be a doctor. The girl who was
abused at home is working in upper management, is married, and has a
beautiful son. And me? I've still got bodacious fucking ta tas, and I've
learned to be proud of them, and I'll bet that you still look like a five
year old.
And you have to be cruel to people on Usenet to feel like a person. Of
all of us, I feel sorry for you the most.
Oriole Adams
>in 6th grade, we got a new gym teacher that insisted we play
>with nerf soccer balls instead of the red rubber balls we
>used to play with.
Oh, God, the unpleasant memories of those huge red rubber balls...I got beaned
in the face with one during dodge ball, and my nose was bleeding profusely, and
Mr. Fagan chastised me for being a baby.....
StarChaser_Tyger
>>From: "Al Yellon" aye...@REMOVETHIScolgatealumni.org
>
>>
>>You never took a gym class where you had to shower?
>
>There was some babble about it in middle school. I used to worm out of it by
>saying I took one in the morning.
When I went to middle school we were supposed to change in the locker
room before and after, and shower with everybody else after. I just
flatly refused to do anything in PE at all, and hung out in the shade
by the library watching everybody else stagger around and sweat in the
Florida heat and sun. If I got bored, I'd go inside and watch them
through the window in the library until they threw me out for not
being in class. <Never did figure that out, either. Can't go to the
library during class...but the library closed when the school did.
What was the point?>
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information, which artists
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Address no longer munged for the inconvienence of spammers.
(Yes, this really is me.)
StarChaser_Tyger
Sarko),
>lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42) wrote in alt.fan.cecil-adams:
>
>> P.S. someone earlier in the thread asked why I was boggled about kids
>> in school having to shower naked in front of each other.
>>
>> I guess I don't really have much of a clear explanation. At home,
>> siblings didn't shower with each other. At pools you didn't (did you?).
>> And with child abuse being such a flaming hot topic for decades, it's
>> just suprising that non biological adults could get away with making
>> kids get naked and soap up.
>>
>
>Well, at our school we had shower stalls, so each girl could shower
>privately. There was a curtained stall in front of each shower for your
>clothes, then the separately curtained stall right behind for the shower
>itself. No running around naked in a wide open room for us. I don't know
>about the boys locker room, but I always assumed it was the same.
Not where I went to school. Stand in front of your <diamond-pierced
metal locker, the size of a shoebox> and strip and change, then back
in, strip and shower with the other guys, then back out naked and wet
and towel and put the school clothes back on. I took one look at the
arrangements, went outside and sat down in the shade. The PE teacher
was going to try and drag me back in, before he realized I was six
inches taller...
Sean Houtman
>
>On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:35:34 -0600, "Al Yellon"
><aye...@REMOVETHIScolgatealumni.org> wrote:
>
>>You never took a gym class where you had to shower?
>
>I didn't; there's a loophole (at least there was in my
>district when I went to high school.) You can take Phys
>Ed courses for credit in summer school. Bicycling,
>swimming, volleyball, crap like that; no locker rooms,
>no showers.
I also come from Albuquerque, in high school showers were not required. In 7th
grade, they were. I was a year younger than all the other guys at a time when a
year's difference in age made for quite a difference in certain measurements.
Sean
And you claim to be self conscious.
--
Visit my photolog page; http://members.aol.com/grommit383/myhomepage
Last updated 11-06-01 with 23 pictures of Balloons added.
Perry Farmer
-> On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:19:16 -0500, Boron Elgar
-> <boron_elgar@"warm"mail.com> wrote:
-> >On 27 Nov 2001 02:22:23 GMT, lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42) wrote:
-> >
-> >>I've seen time and again in popular culture and fiction the concept
-> >>Coach making the boys do humiliating things for acting up in class
-> >>mistake on the playing field.
-> >>
-> >>I'm not familar with this phenomenon. Is humiliation by Coach only for
-> >>specified high school sports teams? Do kids sign a contract saying
-> >>to be yelled at drill instructor style when they fuck up? Or has Ho
-> >>once again, totally distorted reality?
-> >>
-> >>(I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower
-> >>front of each other).
-> >
-> >Not only shower, but the boys went swimming in the nude, too. We're
-> >talking all the way up until the late 60's on this. The girls got
-> >swimsuits. No co-ed swimming, alas.
-> >
-> >And the water in that pool was always cold.
-> Did a lot of schools have pools? Mine certainly didn't. Heck, I don't
-> think the *town* even had a pool at the time.
Tumwater valley has had a pool for many, many years, the same with the
downtown YMCA.
-> --
-> Geoduck
-> http://www.olywa.net/cook
Perry
rob...@bestweb.net
>after 50 minutes of hard, sweaty exercise. Pretty disgusting, to
>walk around stinking all day.
Eccrine sweat (from exercise) doesn't smell so bad. A steam bath to promote
eccrine sweating tends to clean your skin.
rob...@bestweb.net
>I presume tub time stopped before high school.
Sure.
However, I had a sort-of-reverse embarrassment about this. I've always been
relaxed about nudity. I'm not a nudist, and I feel colder than other people
commonly do, so my tendency is to wear clothes under most conditions.
However, I don't mind being undressed or other people being undressed. And
nude is really the best way to swim or even wade.
1st form at Horace Mann (7th grade) was my first experience with showers
after phys. ed. The thing was, I was trying to gauge what OTHER boys
thought was the proper degree of modesty. Should I cover up more, or less?
Most of them adopted the custom of draping a towel around the waist on the
way to the shower, so I went along, at least part way.
What bothered me was not the prospect of being seen undressed, but of being
seen to act DIFFERENTLY. And under those conditions, it was hard to figure
out where to draw the line. Eventually I ignored the whole question. My
more enduring problem was being a slow dresser/undresser, even with clip-on
ties.
As for running laps, phys. ed. teachers often used that as a way to occupy
those students who, say, weren't picked for either side, or some such, as
well as those who mouthed off or were late.
Speaking of Horace Mann, I'm going to classmate Stephen Fife's multimedia
sci-fi comedy "New Day" Friday. http://theaterforthenewcity.org
Robert in the Bronx
kay w
Amy said, in small part:
>> >Your lack of embarassment really
>> >isn't the issue
Me(kay):
>> And your embarrassment really *is* the issue?
Amy:
>No, you condescending, know it all, self-centered, arrogant bitch, it's
>the embarassment of the kids who are in school now. It's the kid who
<snip some 40 lines of descriptions of unfortunate circumstances>
Ah, I misunderstood, since in not one of your posts in this thread have you
mentioned any of these people, or anyone except yourself (and of course, your
mom, and your gym teacher, and your hair, and your breasts, and your pubic
hair, and your class activities.)
Amy:
>It's sadistic fucks like you, Kay, who perpetuate the cycle of kids not
>having rights, in the name of "I had to do it too, and I turned out fine."
As opposed to pleasant Christians like you, I guess. And, by the by, I didn't
say that. Didn't even imply that. I said we'd have stunk if we hadn't
showered.
Amy:
> How is it that a 15 year old girl can have an abortion without her parents
>finding out, but she is forced to participate in gym class?
Or math class? Or history class? Typing? What has an abortion to do with
class participation? Or the topic here?
Amy:
>If adults
>were forced to exercise and shower together at work, it would be called
>sexual harassment, but if it's kids, it's "cleanliness".
It's called cleanliness, even when adults do it.
Me(kay):
>> Sorry, I didn't realize afca really has become "All Amy, all the time."
Amy:
>And I didn't realize that the kids from 6th grade gym had followed me all
>the way here... You are exactly like them, you know. You find a
>weakness, an insecurity, a fear, and you stick your finger into that crack
>in someone's soul, and you wiggle it until the crack is a break, and then
>what, Kay, then what?
>Real nice, real fucking mature.
Honey, you dismissed my experiences out of hand, after providing no
contributions to this thread but *your* experiences. I assure you I have no
desire to stick my finger in any crack of yours, psychological or otherwise.
Sounds like you've got some unresolved issues there, but they aren't with me.
Amy:
>YOU are the force behind school shootings, Kay.
My god, I hate wasting such a wonderful straight line, but I'm just not coming
up with anything that does it justice. Damn.
Amy:
>Did you feel big and smart when you posted what you did? Did you
>feel like you'd really gotten a good slam in on me? Yeah, I'll bet. I'll
>bet you felt big and tough and invincible.
No, just annoyed.
Amy:
>You didn't win. We're better than you.
And good for you!
Amy:
> And me? I've still got bodacious fucking ta tas,
And good for you, honey!
Amy:
>and I've learned to be proud of them
And good for you on that, too.
Amy:
>and I'll bet that you still look like a five year old.
lol...
Amy Austin
See, you still can't reply without making fun. I guess you never learned
how to be nice. Perhaps your school should have worried more about
character education and less about who showered with whom.
rob...@bestweb.net
part:
>I don't remember playing basketball until high school, and even
>then, we weren't good enough at it to necessitate a shower.
I would think that the less skillful you were, the more you'd sweat.
kay w
Nope, sorry...I didn't say that, either.
Jim Stark
Date: 11/28/2001 12:29 AM Eastern Standard Time writes:
>
>On 2001-11-27 scu...@aol.comatose(kayw) said in part:
>
> >after 50 minutes of hard, sweaty exercise. Pretty disgusting, to
> >walk around stinking all day.
>
>Eccrine sweat (from exercise) doesn't smell so bad.
Well, if it's very fresh, it's not without a certain charm. Still, since you
have no sense of smell, you ought to shut up, huh?
Jim Stark
Well, uh...to the extent skill and enthusiasm overlap, and I think they do,
you're prolly out there gaming, and not just watching the kids gaming it up.
Jim Stark
>On 28 Nov 2001, kay w wrote:
>
>> Previously, Amy said, in small part:
>>
>> >Your lack of embarassment really
>> >isn't the issue
>>
>> And your embarrassment really *is* the issue?
>
>No, you condescending, know it all, self-centered, arrogant bitch, it's
>the embarassment of the kids who are in school now. It's the kid who
>grows tits and pubic hair a year ahead of schedule, and looks like an
>adult in a room full of naked 5 year olds. It's the girl whose parents
>put cigarettes out on her back, who is scared half to death that someone
>will notice, because last time CPS got involved, Daddy put her in the
>hospital with a broken pelvis. It's the boy whose leg is malformed
>because of the birth defect that he doesn't want anyone to find out about
>because they tease the other kid with a disability, call him "cripple" and
>pick him last for all the teams.
There was this one kid at my school, one of his legs was shorter than the
other, or something...I dunno, maybe it was his back. Anyway, he always leaned
slightly to the left. We used to call him "ten to six."
> It's the kid in a wheelchair who
>feels different enough as it is, without having to be LIFTED into a
>special chair to shower,
You know, I would think that kid would really generally be exempt from PE
anyway.
Matt Miller
> Since a couple of people have pointed out loopholes in this scheme,
>I think about it a little more carefully, and I guess he didn't do it
>that often. He didn't need to; he was (and presumably still is) one of
>those teachers who 90% of time can Wave The Magic Disipline Wand in
>his classroom and not have any trouble with his students. Some
>teachers got it, and some don't.
> The members of the latter group often get eaten alive, even in
>places like the whitebread suburban school which I attended. To this
>day, I'm convinced that a certain doofus in my class helped drive one
>of the other science teachers in the school into a literal nervous
>breakdown. (Helped; I'm sure there were other contributing factors...)
I've always hated people like that.
My mom tells a story about one of her highschool teachers who had
an unruly class. He committed suicide by flooring it on the wrong side of
the road. He left no suicide note, but he left behind A's for the
ringleaders and C's to everyone else.
--
-Matt Miller
Stay strong
Stay free
Kick ass
Rebuild
Perry Farmer
-> Previously,
-> Amy:
-> >If adults
-> >were forced to exercise and shower together at work, it would be called
-> >sexual harassment, but if it's kids, it's "cleanliness".
-> It's called cleanliness, even when adults do it.
And just in case Amy has missed this, some adults are required to shower
at work and unless you want to stand in line with 175 others, almost
necessitates doing it together.
-> kay w
Perry
Jason Quick
> On 27 Nov 2001 02:22:23 GMT, lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42) wrote:
>
> >(I'm still boggled by the revelation kids did, in real life, shower naked
in
> >front of each other).
>
> In Chicago Public High Schools in the 70s, we also swam in the buff. Don't
know
> if they still do.
Ewww...three dozen teen boys naked in a pool? Musta been a slick of skin
grease and butt cheese floating on the water after that...
Jason
Colin Rosenthal
Oriole Adams <oriol...@aol.com> wrote:
>I remember my first day of junior high school gym.....and we had to *shower* at
>the end of class. I don't care if we were all girls, or not.....appearing
>naked in front of a bunch of strangers was still traumatic.
We weren't actually required to shower, but we still had to change in
front of each other. That was traumatic enough for a shy nine year old.
--
Colin Rosenthal
Astrophysics Institute
University of Oslo
Colin Rosenthal
Amy Austin <glea...@purdue.edu> wrote:
>I listed some of the "sports" we played in another post... I don't
>remember sweating much. I took **bowling** as P.E. one year (we were not
>required to shower after bowling) in high school. Another year I took
>golf.
Hah! One year I took _chess_. But it was so boring I went back to
swimming instead the following year.
Opus the Penguin
>>From: ctc...@hotmail.com
>>I didn't think prudes would take His name in vain.
>
> I'm a prude for not wanting to get naked in front of a bunch of
> strangers?
>
> That's an interesting definition of 'prude'.
Welcome to the club. I got called a prude for that maybe half a year
ago in this group.
--
Opus the Penguin
JmG
>| We didn't all shower. Hardly anyone did, in fact. You'd towel off and put on
>|more deoderant.
Men.
J
--
The Office of Homeland Security [www.bongoboy.com]
JmG
>|It's sadistic fucks like you, Kay, who perpetuate the cycle of kids not
>|having rights, in the name of "I had to do it too, and I turned out fine."
>|You don't know how not-fine some of the *children* in those rooms and in
>|those showers are, and you have no right to force them to expose
>|themselves to cruel, hateful, mean children in the name of "education".
But you see, Amy, this is what the teaching staff is supposed to be there to
avoid from happening. If someone got picked on for their physical attributes
the staff should have been there to make sure it didn't happen again - ever.
What wasn't taught was respect and when you've got 50 kids standing around
naked, that's as good a time as any. Everything was tossed to "kids will be
kids" or, in your example, "I turned out fine" and in this regard I agree with
you wholeheartedly.
[In fact, those people didn't turn out fine regardless of what they think]
My issue in gym wasn't the communal showering which was about the only part I
liked, but I digress... it wasn't even the activities, it was in being picked
last, or being picked on or generally being abused by my fellow classmates for
not being as adept at basketball or baseball or sucking at wrestling or races
and thanks to asthma never had the stamina to keep up with the others.
I only remember one "coach" (what a stupid name for a pedophilic, failed
college football player, eh?) who set our PE class teams by picking names out
of a hat rather than selecting "captains" and having them choose. He hung out
in the locker room during showers (yeah, I know what for) but never allowed
anyone to pick on anyone else for the usual teenaged things. He'd physically
help during gymnastics rather then yell "come on fast ass, move!" and he took
time to explain rules to games and sports and show techniques on batting and
catching and foul line shots and whathaveyou. Alas, I only had him one
semester.
The problem isn't with PE as it is, the problem is with the macho of PE and
the failure of teaching staff to give a shit about the abuse dealt out by
other students or worse, join in that abuse. There is a definite class system
that needs to be broken, smashed and destroyed, and though the naysayers will
say otherwise, it is that system that leads to school shootings and the like.
J
--
Be a Mensch. Everything else is commentary. [www.bongoboy.com]