I need to copy a floppy!
exit...@gmail.com
I have several Okuma lathes and milling machines. These are robotic
machines where I hand write programs for each job, and I have a have a
15+ year collection of programs stored on the machines and on
floppies.
I want to make backups of these programs, but here is the rub: The
machines use Okuma format on the floppy disks. The hardware is a
standard 3.5 IBM floppy disk drive, but the format is nothing like DOS
or FAT or anything like that. The newer machines have the ability to
read both FAT and Okuma floppies, so I know the hardware is compatible
with the floppy drive on a standard PC.
Here is my problem. I have over a decade of programs stored on these
machines and on floppy disks. I want to back up these disks because
some of them are old and may stop working. Copying a disk with one of
my CNC machines is not really an option. (Only one drive, main memory
is way less than 1.44 megs, etc.)
What I really want to do is copy them with a PC, and I seem to
remember that back in the late 1980's, early 1990's there were several
programs (that ran under DOS) that would copy uncopyable copy-
protected floppies, back when games and such were distributed on
floppy disks. I bet one of those would be able to copy these Okuma
format floppy disks.
Problem is, I can't seem to find any such programs anywhere, and
google searches only turn up software for copying DVDs and such. Fuh!
I want something that will allow me to copy a non DOS or FAT floppy.
Does anyone have any clues where I can find some of this 1989 era
software? Freeware would be best! (duh)
Something old that runs under DOS, or a Linux bootable CD would be
great.
Trust me when I say that I don't want to pirate a 1987 version of Ms
Pacman. All of these programs were written by me, or people in my
employ.
Thanks!
Wyatt
Bob E.
> This is going to sound strange.
<snip>
> What I really want to do is copy them with a PC, and I seem to
> remember that back in the late 1980's, early 1990's there were several
> programs (that ran under DOS) that would copy uncopyable copy-
> protected floppies, back when games and such were distributed on
> floppy disks. I bet one of those would be able to copy these Okuma
> format floppy disks.
Wooo, flashback! I remember having COPY2PC.COM, but it was on 5 1/4"
diskette...there was even a version that came with a special
daughterboard that went in between the drive and the floppy controller
that made it possible to copy any diskette, bit for bit. I wonder if it
would work for 3 1/2" floppies...or if I even still have it buried
around here somewhere...probably not, though. I can't remember if it
could accommodate those programs that were copy-protected with a laser
zap on the media of the diskette, but I think it did.
Ah, the days of XTREE, COPY2PC and the original Norton Utilities...
--Bob
Mary
>
> Ah, the days of XTREE, COPY2PC and the original Norton Utilities...
It's been years since I even thought of XTREE or COPY2PC.
Mary
huey.c...@gmail.com
> I have several Okuma lathes and milling machines. These are robotic
> machines where I hand write programs for each job, and I have a have a
> 15+ year collection of programs stored on the machines and on
> floppies.
> I want to make backups of these programs, but here is the rub: The
> machines use Okuma format on the floppy disks. The hardware is a
> standard 3.5 IBM floppy disk drive, but the format is nothing like DOS
> or FAT or anything like that. The newer machines have the ability to
> read both FAT and Okuma floppies, so I know the hardware is compatible
> Problem is, I can't seem to find any such programs anywhere, and
> google searches only turn up software for copying DVDs and such. Fuh!
> I want something that will allow me to copy a non DOS or FAT floppy.
> Does anyone have any clues where I can find some of this 1989 era
> software? Freeware would be best! (duh)
> Something old that runs under DOS, or a Linux bootable CD would be
> great.
I'm betting that you want 'dd' in linux, or 'RAWRITE.EXE' under DOS, one
or both of which you probably already have.
http://sharkysoft.com/tutorials/linuxtips/floppyimages/
--
Huey
exit...@gmail.com
Yes, those were the days. COPY2PC.COM I remember as well, but I lost
my copy as too.
I think (think) worked on the laser zap thing as well, but that is not
an issue for my application.
All I need is a simple bit for bit copy. Do I need to find my intel
assembly books? Where is my compiler anyway?
This should be easy. I can't believe a quick search had not turned
anything up.
Thanks Bob,
Wyatt
exit...@gmail.com
First thing I tried. Ether it does not do a bit by bit copy, or I am a
moron. I place the odds at 50%
Wyatt
danny burstein
>On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:23:13 -0700 (PDT), exit...@gmail.com wrote:
>>This is going to sound strange.
>Have you looked at http://www.winimage.com ?
>I don't know how well it handles "different" floppy disks, but I
>create boot floppies/disk images with it all the time.
It's for hard drives, but reading the material
suggests it might work for a floppy:
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Paul Ciszek
In article <d76f480b-e2b3-4b28...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
<exit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>What I really want to do is copy them with a PC, and I seem to
>remember that back in the late 1980's, early 1990's there were several
>programs (that ran under DOS) that would copy uncopyable copy-
>protected floppies, back when games and such were distributed on
>floppy disks. I bet one of those would be able to copy these Okuma
>format floppy disks.
I wouldn't be so sure. If the *low level format* of the diskettes--
i.e., number of tracks, number of sectors, interleave factor-- is
unique to your old machines, then the disks are incompatible at the
hardware level with any DOS, Mac, or Linux machine.
--
Please reply to: | President Bush is promoting Peace and Democracy
pciszek at panix dot com | in the Middle East by selling Weapons to the
Autoreply is disabled | King of Saudi Arabia.
Les Albert
See if any of these programs will be useful:
Les
exit...@gmail.com
> In article <d76f480b-e2b3-4b28-b515-f438ad885...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> <exit1m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >What I really want to do is copy them with a PC, and I seem to
> >remember that back in the late 1980's, early 1990's there were several
> >programs (that ran under DOS) that would copy uncopyable copy-
> >protected floppies, back when games and such were distributed on
> >floppy disks. I bet one of those would be able to copy these Okuma
> >format floppy disks.
>
> I wouldn't be so sure. If the *low level format* of the diskettes--
> i.e., number of tracks, number of sectors, interleave factor-- is
> unique to your old machines, then the disks are incompatible at the
> hardware level with any DOS, Mac, or Linux machine.
I have no data regarding tracks, sectors, etc. I may try calling the
factory again and ask for the oldest geek in the place.
One data point: The old machines can only use the Okuma format disks.
You stick a plain old 3.5 floppy and use the format command. A PC no
longer knows what to do with it.
I can then take this disk and stick it a newer machine. This one can
read the old format, and a disk made from a standard PC. (With
filename strangeness). Still no diskcopy command, only a copy from
FD0: to BB1: or BB0: (this is where the operating system is, that say
not to mess with it. I do anyway.) . So I think the hardware is the
same.
The drive itself looks like a standard $10 3.5 floppy like you see in
any clone PC.
I find it surprising that there are zero hacks for these machines. I
has a serial port, but no way to print directly to a printer.
A long time ago I got Procom plus for DOS to emulate a punched paper
tape reader/writer via the serial port. It works, but it is a PITA,
only one file at a time, and this computer is on a cart in the shop,
full of metal dust. I do have 2 hard drives in it, and it does an
xcopy each time it boots up. But I only use it for the older lathes
which do not have floppies.
Whatt
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Yes, those were the days. COPY2PC.COM I remember as well, but I lost
> my copy as too.
>
> I think (think) worked on the laser zap thing as well, but that is not
> an issue for my application.
>
> All I need is a simple bit for bit copy. Do I need to find my intel
> assembly books? Where is my compiler anyway?
>
> This should be easy. I can't believe a quick search had not turned
> anything up.
I searched my junk pile but all I could find was TRS-CROSS, which
we used for going back and forth between TRSDOS and MS-DOS.
Charles
huey.c...@gmail.com
> On Jun 15, 3:20 pm, huey.calli...@gmail.com wrote:
> > exit1m...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > I have several Okuma lathes and milling machines. These are
> > > robotic machines where I hand write programs for each job, and I
> > > have a have a 15+ year collection of programs stored on the
> > > machines and on floppies.
> > > I want to make backups of these programs, but here is the rub: The
> > > machines use Okuma format on the floppy disks. The hardware is a
> > > standard 3.5 IBM floppy disk drive, but the format is nothing like
> > > DOS or FAT or anything like that. The newer machines have the
> > > ability to read both FAT and Okuma floppies, so I know the
> > > hardware is compatible with the floppy drive on a standard PC...
> > one or both of which you probably already have.
> > http://sharkysoft.com/tutorials/linuxtips/floppyimages/
> moron. I place the odds at 50%
It does do a bit-by-bit copy, but only if the disk is in the format that
the drive expects. If those disks are formatted in the 800K Amiga
format, some amount of dd on a floppy drive that's mounted at 1.44 is
going to make sense. I have no idea how you go about trying to
reverse-engineer a floppy disk format, though.
Unfortunately, a casual googling tells me nothing about Okuma OSP floppy
disk formatting, other than a whole lot of people are asking the same
question, like this:
http://www.mmsonline.com/dp/forums/forum_post_message.cfm?t_id=3083&f_id=115&m_type=thread&pub=MMS
or http://tinyurl.com/5rh8ha
--
Huey
Greg Johnson
>This is going to sound strange.
>
>I have several Okuma lathes and milling machines. These are robotic
>machines where I hand write programs for each job, and I have a have a
>15+ year collection of programs stored on the machines and on
>floppies.
>
>I want to make backups of these programs, but here is the rub: The
>machines use Okuma format on the floppy disks. The hardware is a
>standard 3.5 IBM floppy disk drive, but the format is nothing like DOS
>or FAT or anything like that. The newer machines have the ability to
>read both FAT and Okuma floppies, so I know the hardware is compatible
>with the floppy drive on a standard PC.
It really depends on what sort of drive your machines use. For
example, the Amiga floppy drives could read and write PC-compatible
disks, but they also handled higher-capacity disks that a PC drive
couldn't read because the designers had made incorrect assumptions
about how data would be stored. If you've run into a problem of this
sort, you might not be able to copy your disks with a standard PC
floppy drive.
Lee Ayrton
But he says that the newer lathes can read both FAT and Okuma formats.
--
"Thank heavens I'm atheist, otherwise I'd be in fear of going
to hell." Veronique explains comparative religion.
Greg Johnson
wrote:
The Amiga drives could read both Amiga and PC formats just fine, but
you could never copy one of the Amiga-format disks on a PC drive. This
was because the PC drive controller expected markings at the beginning
of a track which just weren't there.
See http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/adfaq.html#p2 for far more
information than you could ever want on this subject.
Greg Johnson
I'm pretty sure that this hardware solution would work, but it's not
the software you asked for. http://www.jschoenfeld.com/indexe.htm
Greg Goss
Right. And the Amiga could read both FAT and Amiga disks. But the
PC couldn't read Amiga disks. (At least this is what the other Greg
is saying. I didn't hang out with geeky PC type people at the time,
so don't know for certain that you couldn't read 880K Amiga diskettes
on a 720K PC drive. (or whether 800K Mac disks could be read on a PC)
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
exit...@gmail.com
> I'm pretty sure that this hardware solution would work, but it's not
> the software you asked for.http://www.jschoenfeld.com/indexe.htm
Which item are you referring to? All I see is a bunch of nifty Amiga
stuff.
Thanks,
Wyatt
exit...@gmail.com
Sure looks like a standard PC floppy drive. Only way to know for sure
is to swap out the drive on my megabucks machine tool and see if it
still works.
I really think I could copy these if I got my hands on an old skool
floppy copy program. Searches for copy2pc reveal that I can't buy it,
download it, or steal it.
Wyatt
exit...@gmail.com
> I searched my junk pile but all I could find was TRS-CROSS, which
> we used for going back and forth between TRSDOS and MS-DOS.
>
> Charles
What is TRSDOS? Tandy Radio Shack DOS?
Those 5.25 floppies did use the same drives ans IBM, but only used 35
tracks for some reason.
Wyatt
Greg Johnson
Ah, the link didn't point where I expected. The Catweasel is a
"universal floppy disk controller" which claims it can handle all the
floppy disk formats I've ever heard of and is programmable to handle
more, so it could probably be made to cope with your disks even if
they're not standard.
Greg Johnson
>On Jun 15, 5:56 pm, Greg Johnson <greg....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It really depends on what sort of drive your machines use. For
>> example, the Amiga floppy drives could read and write PC-compatible
>> disks, but they also handled higher-capacity disks that a PC drive
>> couldn't read because the designers had made incorrect assumptions
>> about how data would be stored. If you've run into a problem of this
>> sort, you might not be able to copy your disks with a standard PC
>> floppy drive.
>
>Sure looks like a standard PC floppy drive. Only way to know for sure
>is to swap out the drive on my megabucks machine tool and see if it
>still works.
The difference in the drives was in the controller firmware rather
than the read/write portion. Externally they were pretty much the same
as a PC drive.
>I really think I could copy these if I got my hands on an old skool
>floppy copy program. Searches for copy2pc reveal that I can't buy it,
>download it, or steal it.
If the software can override the drive's controller on such things as
what size a block should be and what marks the beginning and end of
sectors, then it should work. I don't know if any PC copying software
would bother to do this, though, since all PC drives used the same
standards for these things.
D.F. Manno
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
> (or whether 800K Mac disks could be read on a PC)
They couldn't.
--
D.F. Manno | dfm...@mail.com
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification
for selfishness. (John Kenneth Galbraith)
D.F. Manno
<3212fc2e-a731-43dd...@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
exit...@gmail.com wrote:
> What is TRSDOS? Tandy Radio Shack DOS?
Yes.
--
D.F. Manno | dfm...@mail.com
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man零 oldest exercises in
Hactar
That'd be the first thing I'd try. If you don't have a Linux machine
happy, download a LiveCD.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81
Hi! I'm a .sig virus! Copy me to your .sig!
mdginzo
> machines where I hand write programs for each job, and I have a have a
> 15+ year collection of programs stored on the machines and on
> floppies.
>
> I want to make backups of these programs, but here is the rub: The
> machines use Okuma format on the floppy disks. The hardware is a
> standard 3.5 IBM floppy disk drive, but the format is nothing like DOS
> or FAT or anything like that. The newer machines have the ability to
> read both FAT and Okuma floppies, so I know the hardware is compatible
>
> Here is my problem. I have over a decade of programs stored on these
> machines and on floppy disks. I want to back up these disks because
> some of them are old and may stop working. Copying a disk with one of
> my CNC machines is not really an option. (Only one drive, main memory
> is way less than 1.44 megs, etc.)
>
> remember that back in the late 1980's, early 1990's there were several
> programs (that ran under DOS) that would copy uncopyable copy-
> protected floppies, back when games and such were distributed on
> floppy disks. I bet one of those would be able to copy these Okuma
> format floppy disks.
>
> google searches only turn up software for copying DVDs and such. Fuh!
> I want something that will allow me to copy a non DOS or FAT floppy.
> Does anyone have any clues where I can find some of this 1989 era
> software? Freeware would be best! (duh)
>
> Something old that runs under DOS, or a Linux bootable CD would be
> great.
>
> Pacman. All of these programs were written by me, or people in my
> employ.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Wyatt
I have a USB 3.5 floppy drive that should allow you to transfer those
files. Is that what you need?
Hactar
That makes no sense. DYM "handy"?
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81
SCORPIO: Get ready for an unexpected trip when you fall screaming
from an open window. Work a little harder on improving your low self
esteem, you stupid freak. -- Weird Al, _Your Horoscope for Today_
Blinky the Shark
> In article <6bluc8F...@mid.individual.net>,
> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
>> (or whether 800K Mac disks could be read on a PC)
>
> They couldn't.
But you could hold them against your screen and fax them.
--
Blinky
Is your ISP dropping Usenet?
Need a new feed?
http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> In article
> <3212fc2e-a731-43dd...@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> exit...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> What is TRSDOS? Tandy Radio Shack DOS?
>
> Yes.
>
Tandy Trash-80 model III, with serial number 000985, originally
with only 4 K of RAM and a tape drive. I gradually added to it
until it grew to 48 K with two disk drives, and an external
one Meg. Winchester hard drive.
Charles
David Skinner
@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, exit...@gmail.com says...
> This is going to sound strange.
>
> I have several Okuma lathes and milling machines. These are robotic
> machines where I hand write programs for each job, and I have a have a
> 15+ year collection of programs stored on the machines and on
> floppies.
I suppose this could be bullshit to get you to buy a drive off these
folks for a premium price, but the page suggests that there's something
at least slightly different from a standard PC floppy drive. As others
have said, it's most likely in the firmware...
http://www.en-machining.com/docs/Products/Okuma_Parts/okuma_parts.html
sli...@slidge.com
>
> It's been years since I even thought of XTREE or COPY2PC.
>
I remember using Locksmith to copy old Apple II games. What a great piece
of software that was...
pmge...@mail.thepatcave.org
> One data point: The old machines can only use the Okuma format disks.
> You stick a plain old 3.5 floppy and use the format command. A PC no
> longer knows what to do with it.
If it's a plain 3.5" floppy, dd(or dcfldd, a slightly more verbose version)
should work to get the data off. Don't mount it, and access the entire
disk as one unit(i.e., /dev/sda instead of /dev/sda1).
I know this has worked for me in the past on disk formats that Linux
doesn't have a clue about.
--
-------Patrick M Geahan---...@thepatcave.org---ICQ:3784715------
"You know, this is how the sum total of human knowledge is increased.
Not with idle speculation and meaningless chatter, but with a
medium-sized hammer and some free time." - spa...@pffcu.com, a.f.c-a
dan
alt.fan.cecil-adams mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue by
Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:23:13 -0700 (PDT):
>I have several Okuma lathes and milling machines. These are robotic
>machines where I hand write programs for each job, and I have a have a
>15+ year collection of programs stored on the machines and on
>floppies.
>
>I want to make backups of these programs, but here is the rub: The
>machines use Okuma format on the floppy disks. The hardware is a
>standard 3.5 IBM floppy disk drive, but the format is nothing like DOS
>or FAT or anything like that. The newer machines have the ability to
>read both FAT and Okuma floppies, so I know the hardware is compatible
>with the floppy drive on a standard PC.
Try asking over on rec.crafts.metalworking
They really know their stuff. If then can't help, try
alt.machines.cnc
Dan H.
--
Dan
Hactar
<pmge...@mail.thepatcave.org> wrote:
> exit...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > One data point: The old machines can only use the Okuma format disks.
> > You stick a plain old 3.5 floppy and use the format command. A PC no
> > longer knows what to do with it.
>
> If it's a plain 3.5" floppy, dd(or dcfldd, a slightly more verbose version)
> should work to get the data off. Don't mount it, and access the entire
> disk as one unit(i.e., /dev/sda instead of /dev/sda1).
Floppies don't have partition tables, so that's easy. But it's fd0, not
[sh]da.
> I know this has worked for me in the past on disk formats that Linux
> doesn't have a clue about.
If you don't care about reading the data, it's fine. Better check for
and repair bad blocks on the lathe, if you can. dd might retry
infinitely at them. If they appear, you might try "dd ... conv=noerror".
It'll write a block of nulls where the bad blocks were, I think.
--
-eben QebWe...@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81
And we never failed to fail / It was the easiest thing to do -- CSN